Rage Quits and Refunds: When Games Just Aren't Worth It (Nightreign Edition)

Breaking free from the constraints of desk-bound gaming, this episode explores how the Steam Deck is revolutionizing gaming accessibility for busy adults. Marcus details his journey selecting the perfect portable gaming device, ultimately choosing the Steam Deck for its impressive library compatibility and performance. The freedom to play Elden Ring in short, guilt-free sessions between life's responsibilities has transformed his gaming experience completely.

The conversation takes a sharp turn when discussing Nightreign, the Elden Ring multiplayer spinoff that promised much but delivered frustration. Doc and Marcus break down why this cash-grab fails its player base through poor communication systems, inadequate tutorials, and a troubling tendency for teammates to abandon matches. In a rare moment of consumer activism, Doc processes a Steam refund during the podcast – his first-ever game return – highlighting just how disappointing the experience truly was.

Not all gaming experiences disappoint, however. Doc celebrates completing Expedition 33, albeit with the "bad ending" and significantly under-leveled at 35 hours instead of the recommended 50. This sparks a fascinating discussion about different gaming approaches – racing through main storylines versus thorough exploration – and how these choices shape our experiences with games we love.

The episode culminates in a thought-provoking question that reveals the hosts' gaming souls: "If you could play any game again for the first time, what would it be?" Doc's choice of Catherine Classic and Marcus's selection of Star Wars: The Old Republic unveil how deeply games have impacted their lives beyond mere entertainment. Their answers demonstrate how certain gaming experiences become formative moments that shape who we are as players and people.

Have you experienced a game that changed how you think about gaming? Or have you been disappointed by a title that seemed promising but failed to deliver? Share your gaming journey with us and let us know which game you'd choose to experience again for the first time!

Transcript

Podcast Intro and Comcast Complaints

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast. I'm MarcusB814. I'm joined by my esteemed best friend, dr Gameology, and we're here to talk about video games and sidebars. Why? Because that's what I do I'm here for the sidebar, he's here to drop psychology on you, and this is our show. Right now, man, there's so much to talk about. Can we first talk about how much Comcast sucks?

Speaker 2 0:31

We can actually, Marcus, because I broke up with them yesterday.

Speaker 1 0:37

Oh, because last week's episode it cut out mid-show. You were just gone and then they said the outage was until 2 30 in the morning yeah.

Speaker 2 0:47

So, marcus, my streaming life just went from 720p 30 frames per second to 1080p 60 frames per second, because I have formed an alliance with at&t and their fiber optic internet. Well done, well done. Yes, well done. It saves me $20 a month. It's cheaper to multiply my upload speed by 40 times. Isn't that insane?

Speaker 1 1:16

Just like Captain Insano.

Speaker 2 1:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:21

Well, I you know I was devastated, because usually it's my internet, because I'm in the Northeast that sucks ass. It seems like Florida's internet is bulletproof, and last week your internet said nope.

Speaker 2 1:38

Yeah, I had an outage Wednesday night. No, sorry wrong, I had an outage on Thursday night and Friday night and it's because the main road, the major road that's next to my neighborhood, it had all the way up at the three miles next to my neighborhood they just had truck after truck after truck working on the power lines, working on the lines that are under the ground, and just there they were nicking the Spectrum stuff. Spectrum that's it Yep.

Speaker 1 2:09

Yeah, spectrum, yep. Yep yep, yep.

Speaker 2 2:14

I get it. It's really frustrating because they're just like oh well, you're expected to have internet back in the next seven hours. It's like but every single thing in my house is connected by wifi.

Speaker 1 2:28

Like but it was kind of nice, cause it was 10 o'clock at night. So most, most people are done with the internet stuff, except you.

Speaker 2 2:36

The Friday stuff happened at 4 30 PM. I was still working. Oh, ripper Roni, yeah, like it it was. It was aggravating enough that it prompted me to be like I am a free agent here. I'm not. I'm not married to this internet, like I can watch smackdown on hulu with any internet connection. So watch this, watch this, watch me, watch me um, all right topic time multiple choice.

Speaker 1 3:11

Do you want to talk about topic d, e or f first?

Speaker 2 3:17

if these are letter coded, it's really hard because I can think of a descriptive word for the things going on in my life for each of those letters. Let's just go with topic D.

The Steam Deck Decision

Speaker 1 3:28

Okay, I got a steam, deck.

Speaker 2 3:30

Oh, nice that is a much better D than what I was expecting to talk about.

Speaker 1 3:35

Yes. So I, as you guys know, I've been kind of going back and forth on all of the ideas of how to be able to play games more but not be tied down to my office. So over the course of the last few weeks I've been looking at the ROG Ally this is before they announced the Xbox one the MSI Claw, the Steam Deck. There was another one too, the Lenoenovo one, and then there's, of course, the switch too, and I was kind of I was going back and forth, back and forth, and I watched so many youtube videos like I'm gonna shout out to all the youtube creators that take the time, because there's so many people like me on what handheld console to buy and I I was stuck like I didn't know. And you spoke highly of the steam deck, like rave reviews and you know. But you have a switch and a Switch 2. But the big thing for me was I had to decide. I knew I wasn't going to buy the Switch 2 right away because the Nintendo games are not me Like. I play some of them, but it's not Like I have to force myself to play it. You know what I mean. They don't have native games that I want to play. You know what I mean. They don't have native games that I want to play. So I settled on the Steam Deck and it came down to two reasons. The first reason was because it's Steam and I'm a PC gamer. Okay, part two of that is that I have an entire library of games. Is that I have an entire library of games and like 65 or 70% of them are all Steam Deck verified? Yeah, so it was a no-brainer, like a lot of people were like, hey, the Steam Deck is kind of like old technology. You know, definitely buy it, but know you're buying something that's like two years old because they haven't set up an updated one yet. Blah, blah, blah. But they completely modernize this thing. There's constant updates for it. It's a good system. And I said to myself the games I'm playing, if they're Steam Deck verified, they're going to play. Great, you're right, you know.

Speaker 1 6:06

And what sold me on the Steam Deck beyond your recommendation was when I went. They have a button oh, steam Deck. Whenever we record, I have the Steam page up at all times, like the store, and at the top left-hand corner or middle left-hand, it's Steam Deck. Your game's everywhere. And I clicked on it and it said check out all the most played games. The top left-hand corner or a middle left-hand. It's steam deck, your games everywhere. And I clicked on it and it said check out all the most played games. And elden ring is always in the top five games. And then I would watch.

Speaker 1 6:34

And then I watched a video on how's elden ring on the steam deck and yes, it's not 4k, 60, 60 frames I get on my computer but it plays great. It plays absolutely great. Yeah, it's only in 720p, but the screen's only 7.4 inches. It's great. Like I have had no issue playing it and enjoying it.

Speaker 1 7:00

But the other thing is is I have found time to play it for 10 minutes, like I might just go from grace to grace, kill some things and sit like, stop at a grace and shut it off and it's. I have found that it is fulfilled my gaming needs without having to like feel like I have to sit down in front of my computer for a session. You know what I mean. And this will bring us into E, which I played Elden Ring on the Steam Deck and I've been on a mission to kill dragons. Yeah, because I only killed the one in Limgrave grave and I might have killed another one, so I'm just going through and killing them. I think I killed the one in lernia too, because when I went to where he was supposed to be he was not there. So I'm like, all right, I already killed him so and there's no way to check and see if you kill them. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 8:03

I don't think there's two dragons in liurnia. One is next to the academic city, the other you fight at the the three towers.

Speaker 1 8:16

It flies away and you have to kill it when you complete the ronnie quest correct after you killed mad blithe, yeah, um, anyway. So I played elden ring on the steam deck. It's fantastic. I am so thrilled about it. I have my like brand new alienware laptop. I'm gonna sell it. Oh wow, I I don't need it. You know, I use my laptop for when I go away. I don't need it. What do I need a laptop for? I don't type anything. You know what I mean. I literally just play video games on it, and now that I have that, it's the greatest machine ever yeah because and here's the here's the third reason why I bought it is I already own the games.

Speaker 1 9:06

So if I bought a switch or a rog ally or whatever, I would have to purchase games in order to play it, all of the games. I have a library of games that I'm can play. I'm gonna say for free, but I've already bought them. Yeah, but it syncs perfect. So I just got rid of D&E Bam.

Speaker 2 9:29

Yeah, also, if you ever learn how to play Final Fantasy XIV on a controller, you can play that on your Steam Deck as well, and it is beautiful and runs perfect Just the same as your rundown of Elden Ring Like. But it's not just about Final Fantasy 14. There are so many really good games that you already love, that you already own, and you don't have to build your library up Like. I have the Switch 2 right now. My son is playing it a ton. We have Mario Kart World. I haven't played it yet and he keeps pointing out that I keep dodging the chance to play it. I just keep saying that it's a grind that I don't have time for right now.

Speaker 1 10:13

So you can't just do a race and be happy with that.

Elden Ring on Steam Deck

Speaker 2 10:19

I am capable of playing a race and doing my best to be happy with that. I don't feel the need to play a new mario kart, right, like I. I don't know I, something's broken inside of me. Marcus, like I, I bought the console for him. Uh, his birthday is just a little bit before mine, so you know, the switch 2 came out on my birthday. We, we picked it up, but it's really for him, sure, and I just don't feel any need or desire to be a cow in a mario kart and throw any shells at things like I. I just don't have it. I don't have the thing that draws me towards new games.

Speaker 1 11:13

Listen, I get it Time, just like me. I'm going to play Final Fantasy XIV. That is the next game I play. I played Night Rain. I played Night Rain, but you know I'm so wrapped up in Elden Ring Like I want to get all of the stuff before I go to the DLC. You were away so Final Fantasy XIV hadn't happened, but there's really no other game I want to play.

Speaker 2 11:49

I have some games that I'm still excited for. Just on the topic of bridging off of that switch to point, I started night rain. I bought it on steam but it's very hard for me to run the pc version and still stream it. My computer's doing too much and even wait, I gotta stop.

Speaker 1 12:11

What graphics card do you have?

Speaker 2 12:14

I do not know, but even on medium settings for the graphics it was just making. Everything in obs was jittery. Nothing looks smooth.

Speaker 1 12:24

You must have your okay. So we'll have to go into your OBS and change your uh graphic settings, because you got to put it on N Vink for your it is on N Vink Marcus.

Speaker 2 12:38

Ooh yeah. So I bought the PS five version. I've been playing it. It's perfect. So that's the moral of the story. I own two versions of Elden Ring Night Rain.

Speaker 1 12:48

You can. How many hours of wait? How many hours of Night Rain? Did you play on PC?

Speaker 2 12:52

I bought it with a code from G2Acom, so if I want to do a refund, I have to do it through them.

Speaker 1 12:59

You can, as long as I think it's three hours or less why, would you have no?

Speaker 2 13:07

friends on the playstation, and it's a multiplayer game right, uh, yeah, yeah like I'm in.

Speaker 2 13:16

I'm in a tough spot like I literally have nobody to play with because of what time I stream, also like. So the only success I going to have in the game is if I get lucky and get amazing angels on my team. But what I'm learning is Elden Ring players stuck at teamwork. Right, like all of you, I'm calling you out. You are the most selfish bastards in the universe. You're terrible human beings. You're terrible human beings. Every single expedition I did on one of my streams this week had people bailing on me. Marcus, yeah, like leaving the instance. And so now.

Speaker 1 14:02

I'm alone. That's interesting, because I never had that happen. I've never had somebody leave, but you know what it is. It's's probably so. That's the toxicity part of the community. So now that it's been around for long enough, if you go in and you don't know what you're doing, they're probably like we're not winning.

Speaker 2 14:19

I'm out it was my second match ever yeah, but I'm not talking about you also there's no built in chat, so there's no way for yeah, like this is the problem, this game should not be released right now.

Speaker 1 14:34

Ooh, let's get into this.

Speaker 2 14:35

Yeah, unpopular opinion. I came in ready for this and it's my time. My time is now. This game should not be installed on anyone's devices right now. There's no way to communicate with the complete selfish bastards that you get paired up with and they leave you and then, because it started out as a three-person thing, you are now a one person with the three-person rules and then if you leave, you get penalized for exiting too, even if you're alone. Marcus, right like from software does just fundamentally does not understand what a multiplayer game is, and they're showing it obnoxiously with confidence that is undeserved.

Speaker 2 15:29

The entire process of having your characters and you carry no runes or levels with you into the next thing, every single thing you do. You start at level one and when you open the game, you only have one instance you can enter and you have to be lucky enough to get two people that are going to play well and stick with you for the whole 45 minutes so you can unlock other stages. It's brutal and I I enjoy it. I understand it now. Also playing the recluse, which is the magic-based witch class. There is no clear description of how to refill your magic points.

Speaker 1 16:14

You gotta get that tree.

Speaker 2 16:16

No, no, she has a secondary magic spell where you hold down triangle and hit L1, and it sucks the magic out of whatever the last character you hit with the magic spell is out of. Whatever the last character you hit with a magic spell is. It's really fun. It reminds me a lot of Black Mage in Final Fantasy XIV. It's so technical. You feel smart when you play it. Well, and I like that.

Night Rain Review and Frustrations

Speaker 2 16:40

But there is nothing in the game that clearly explains that mechanic unless you already know the mechanic. And then when you read the one place where it says how to do that, it's like oh, that makes perfect sense, but the description is filled with jargon words, and so in my field counseling, psychology, mental health profession it is unethical for me to describe something to my clients with words that they do not understand, and so this is a cardinal sin to me that Elden Ring describes how to refill your magic when your only weapon that that class has is a magic staff right Like five attacks, and you cannot do attacks anymore unless you know how to do this. My first night streaming the game was a disaster and I learned. My second one was good. My third one was good. Ps5 was a good change for me. But just I played Final Fantasy 14 as my stream game today and on my tweet I was like I want to play with people who actually understand teamwork. So Elden Ring Fortnite is not like my favorite to play.

Speaker 1 17:57

Okay, can I rebuttal what you're talking about?

Speaker 2 18:01

You can say whatever you want. You're not going to change my mind. Good luck. It's worse to be with you.

Speaker 1 18:05

No, no, no. I'm going to give you my review because I've played Hold on. I will tell you.

Speaker 2 18:11

I have played like 12 hours so far oh, you probably played more than me.

Speaker 1 18:15

Yeah, I've played three and a half hours of it, okay, okay. So my view on the game is I agree, I think this was a cash grab from Soft. Bandai probably said, hey, make a game, let's make some money and let's produce the game in Elden Ring Because it's all redone assets. There's nothing new in the game. Everything in the game is a redone asset. The world itself is snippets of different parts of Elden Ring. Right, you go into caves. It's the same layout. It's the same art assets. It's a $40 game which should have been a $20 expansion for Elden Ring, that you can click into Elden Ring and click in Night Rain.

Speaker 2 19:13

Battle Royale Right.

Speaker 1 19:15

Yeah, it was a cash grab. So it took me probably two instances for me to understand a little bit the tutorial. I think this game with no tutorial is terrible, like the tutorial they give you was awful. And they can say it's a FromSoft game, and that's what they do. But this isn't a FromSoft game, but it's not. It's a multiplayer game and they're trying to cash in on the Fortnite success. I'm going to use Fortnite because it's the biggest battle royale out there.

Speaker 2 19:56

Well, it's also like Blue Circle closing you in. Yes, no, no.

Speaker 1 20:00

It's a Fortnite clone with Elden Ring.

Speaker 2 20:02

It's a Fortnite clone. Yes, right.

Speaker 1 20:03

Yeah, Instead of just running around and shooting people, you can go underground and do dungeons right people. You can go underground and do dungeons right the the boss. Unless you learn the meta on how to play it, you're not killing regular. You can kill your regular enemies. But like I found a tree sentinel, I hit him, I literally was doing 98 damage to him and I had a level two or three weapon right and I'm. This is fucking stupid. And then I'm watching these other people who have already played 50 hours and they're annihilating them because they understand the builds of the game. Again, they've made. They've made this game for the let me solo him Elden Ring pros. This game, I say, is for me, is for the top 1% of Elden Ring players that can just go in and annihilate shit, right.

Speaker 2 21:05

Well, there is something neat that I'm seeing on Twitch. When I do raids and I have been trying to raid into the same game meet new people, give them a follow, you know, spread that positivity to new people. Sure, and what I'm seeing is three person co streams where they have a shared chat. All three of the communities are there. They're all on the screen with their little green screens, so they're like all in a row. You know, they're shrunk down to the same size so that they look like they're sitting on a couch.

Speaker 1 21:37

Yeah, they're a team.

Speaker 2 21:39

Yeah, they're a team and so they're able to talk, they're able to communicate. They're like oh, I found a new weapon, sweet, oh, I found some items, oh, I items, oh, I can drop that you can. You can carry this one, blah, blah. It's like that's what this game's all about, right, the yes problem is I'm playing in the morning. You know that my whole stream is built around. Get your coffee, uh, turn on my stream. Let's start the work day together. Let's have fun with games, talk about psychology, do the d20 topic for mental health, and there are no people that are in my current list my, my friend group that can play with me from 9 am to 11 on two or three weekdays or even one weekday, right, like, and that's, that's my choice.

Speaker 1 22:26

I don't stream at night, so well, we've talked about that, but I agree 100% and I didn't even get into that part, I'm just talking about the actual gameplay of the game. Then you throw in three random people and if you don't just pick one person to follow because most of the time if two people are following, the third person will follow them, but they'll just leave you. And the only way to communicate in that game is by a ping Drop a pin, like this green pin. Hey, go here, like what the fuck? Then on top of it and this is a get good mentality and I get it but the game does not show you how to do anything. If you're going to be successful in that game, you legit have to go watch some videos or get two randoms who have already beat bosses. I haven't beaten the first boss yet.

Speaker 2 23:29

The three wolves Wait, wait, already beat bosses. I haven't beaten the first boss, yet the three wolves wait, wait. So you haven't gotten to the night three boss, or you haven't beaten the boss of night one no, I haven't beat the night.

Speaker 1 23:40

Three boss, the first one, the three, the three, uh wolves that I've only made it that far one time okay, so we're in the same boat and but then, uh, I have, uh, oh, then he played in, another one of our friends played and them two, communicating, were good enough to be able to beat a bunch of bosses because they're communicating. But again, from soft doesn't want the toxicity, so they're like we're not putting in voice chat because it let's face it Elden Ring and Souls games create toxicity.

Speaker 2 24:17

Abandoning brand new players is still toxicity.

Speaker 1 24:21

I understand that and I don't disagree, but I have chosen to not play it rather than play it alone, have chosen to not play it rather than play it alone. So basically, I I think I'm uh, I'm point six, like 40 minutes over my return window on steam, right, I'm sure I could appeal to return it because, honestly, I don't really have a desire to play it. I should. How do you do a refund? How do you do?

Speaker 2 24:54

that you just go into customer support and you click the different options Until you pick the oh support. What problem are you having?

Speaker 1 25:06

I'm having trouble.

Speaker 2 25:08

There's tons of different.

Speaker 1 25:09

I want you to permanently remove this game from my account. I'm having trouble.

Speaker 2 25:12

It's not what I expected.

Speaker 1 25:12

There's tons of different. I want to permanently remove this game from my account. It's not what I expected. I'd like to request a refund For Outweight Refund, may 29th. This refund will remove the following products for receiving our four hours of playtime dlc, two of three achievements total 4249 will be returned to my paypal.

Speaker 2 25:44

Yeah so does that mean?

Speaker 1 25:45

again. Yeah, it's not fun.

Speaker 2 25:52

They're asking the reasons.

Speaker 1 25:56

Submit request. Perfect, your help request has been submitted to Steam support. Reference code is this Once a support agent has responded to your request, you will receive a notification. Perfect, boom, how's that.

Speaker 2 26:17

Well. Now I have even fewer friends that can group up with me.

Speaker 1 26:20

Well, but you know what? This is the first time ever in my life I've returned a game, but it's not for me and I'm in as an adult. Instead of wasting 42, 49, just return. I returned it, it's just not for me. Yeah, and you know what? Maybe I'll get it for the playstation so you and I can play it on the playstation oh, that would be so nice.

Speaker 1 26:46

Marcus, you know what I'm saying, but like I would have more fun playing with you than nobody and I'm not saying Venmo wouldn't play with me or Carmen, I'm not saying they wouldn't right but yeah, I mean I'm having more fun playing a single player game and wanting to play Final Fantasy 14 than I will in Night Rain and being refunded 42 bucks. If I decide to buy it later, maybe I'll buy it when it's on sale next month for $20. So Whew, okay, remember I said the choices of D, e and F. Yeah, so we talked about D, the Steam Deck. E was Elden Ring. Now it's time for the F. F is for Fail. I was let down big time this week. Like I don't want to say the word devastated, because I wasn't devastated, but like you know, when you're really looking forward to something, you're like looking forward to doing something all week long and then when it's time to do that, you get the sad trombone want, want, want yeah, that's pretty relatable, but what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 28:04

so I was supposed to record working class nerds last night. Oh, and I looked forward to it all. Like for three days I was texting nick all day, every day for three days and then, wednesday, during the work day, I texted him. I was like, dude, I can't wait for tonight. I'm so excited to say hey, I'm marcus. Like, I'm so excited to like do a real final episode of the close it out, because they, the community, followed with me through my Elden Ring rage, quits and journey and all of this shit, and I feel like that's the perfect end to a show. Right, my completion of beating Melania and all that. Yeah, I got a text about 6 pm that says I'm running errands, probably won't be back before 845, 9 pm and I stopped and said to myself most stores are closed at 9 pm.

Speaker 1 29:05

Yes, in the Northeast at 9 pm. So two options happened. He got wrapped up with his future wife and whatever Good times, or yeah, or you know he, or he's just blowing me off because he doesn't want to do it, Right, and either way I'm calling him out, but I'm not really calling him out. And he said, hey, can we do it another day? And I just, you know I, my disappointed response is probably the most toxic response ever. I said, it's okay, dude, it's no problem, I'll probably just record it by myself Talk soon.

Speaker 1 29:43

And I didn't end up doing it, cause I ended up doing a bunch of stuff with the kids, which is fine, but my point to you is the fail was I was disappointed and I allowed myself to be super disappointed.

Speaker 2 29:59

Yeah, you're allowed to be disappointed there, Marcus.

Speaker 1 30:01

Oh, of course, oh no, no, there's no apology needed. I needed to vent it because I was that excited for something it's like how excited I was for night rain and then I booted it up and was like, wow, this sucks ass and I'm going to go back to night rain. You know, what also sucks is it forces you to use weapons that you don't want to use. So I switched to the magic character, and even the magic character isn't great for me. Like I like a katana, there is a katana character.

Speaker 1 30:36

Well, yes, but like the best run that I had was when I got the Uji katana with the blood the blood like loss on it. It was nasty and that's where we made it to the final boss. It it was nasty and that's when we made it to the final boss. Every other time I'm using some stupid fucking stick or a trident or a great sword, like I'm not a great sword player yeah, your mediocre sword at best exactly and that's.

Speaker 1 31:04

And then I switched to the magic character and it went a little bit better, but still, and the game? You start off with no fucking health, no fp, and your stamina bar sucks ass, I don't know whatever yeah, it's it.

Speaker 2 31:22

That's another fortnight mechanic, though. You start with the lamest gun. You gotta find stuff. Wait, do you even start with a gun in fortnite? You just start with the axe man? I don't even remember. Yeah, it's tough. You gotta find better weapons, you gotta level up it's. But I enjoy it the times where I've gotten a chance to legitimately play a run. But the problem is, 50 of my runs have been people abandoning me for whatever reason, because I'll never know, because you can't chat, or if they don't abandon me, they just are dying so fast that there's not enough talent in the squad to make it to the end.

Speaker 1 32:14

Yeah, and Doc, I think that if I get Night Rain on the PlayStation and you and I can play, I think I'll actually have more fun. And I did have fun with then. But it was day one. I was so excited for the release, I pre-downloaded it and everything and I'm butthurt yeah, but I do have a gaming achievement that I could stab uh, not sabotage.

Game Refund and Playing Preferences

Speaker 2 32:44

I could like shift us into it if we, if we want to get away from those butthurt feelings from Elden Ring. No, it's fine. I finished Expedition 33.

Speaker 1 32:56

Oh shit, so fun fact. I came into your stream I was working, I think, and I or it was on a weekend, I can't remember but I was like I was being super goofy and you're like Marcus, I'm fighting the final boss, not right now, and you didn't say it like that, but it was like that was the. Everybody in chat was like, oh, doc, just burned you. He doesn't have time for your shit right now. And then you died like a second later and I was like, ha ha, ha f you, doc. My man upstairs punished you that was on Sunday, yeah.

Speaker 1 33:34

Yes.

Speaker 2 33:36

You were not being your normal self. You were like unleashed, intoxicated Marcus or something yes. Yes, and I was just like Marcus. I'm having real feelings, fighting for my life in this epic battle. That's going to mean something to me for 20 years and here I am. We're not doing fart jokes in the twitch chat oh, dude, it was so funny yeah, it was fun. Um, I did pick the bad ending, though and yeah, so um yeah.

Speaker 2 34:11

So two characters from your party the whole game have a difference of opinion at the end about what the right way to treat the paintings would be, and I chose the character that I liked the most, despite sort of understanding that her point of view on the thing is not in line with my values, that her point of view on the thing is not in line with my values, and so the ending for that character is the tragic one, where life is not actually okay and we're supposed to ignore that, and so everybody doesn't live past 33 at the end of your game.

Speaker 2 34:52

I don't want to spoil what the ending is. Maybe in a future episode we can go really into detail on it. But that's so um I haven't seen. I haven't seen the good ending. I'm not going on youtube. Um, I did try to go back into the final area but I beat the game severely under leveled marcus. So the amount of ill, even on the easiest difficulty, that I had to have to pull those fights off. I'm proud of myself.

Speaker 2 35:20

I'm proud of you going in to do it again. Thank you. Going in to do it again Under leveled is not something I'm interested in doing. I would like to go back and do some of the leveling grinding areas. I didn't know there were extra areas in the game. I just went from story point to story point to story point and, as a result, I found no extra costumes other than like a few that were on the main path, and I didn't even know there were side quests in the game at all. Like, literally like when I go on the internet and look up the trophy list for this game. It's stuff that I did not even interact with at all. Like, literally like when I go on the internet and look up the trophy list for this game. It's stuff that I did not even interact with at all. So I was level 50 when I finished. I probably should have been 65 or 70, oh, okay yeah, all right, so you didn't do that.

Speaker 1 36:08

You did not do the japanese jrpg grind. You didn't grind, no levels.

Speaker 2 36:14

I made my own hard mode that's what I did.

Speaker 1 36:17

Yeah, like you played it on story, but it was extra hard, I got it yeah, because I I was under leveled the entire time I understand that completely, man yeah well, so a couple questions.

Speaker 1 36:28

So first thing I'm going to say is every time we've talked about a game, I've gone to steam like because I keep the steam store up. Steam deck compatibility is playable. This game's launcher setup tool may require the touch screen or virtual keyboard or have difficult to read text. Some in-game text is small and may be difficult to read, so for that game I feel like you need the screen to be able to read all the moves that you're doing, so I probably won't play it on the Steam Deck.

Speaker 2 36:56

I've played so many games that have that designation on the Steam Deck and they're really just, they're covering their own behind. In case someone that yeah, like in case someone is visually impaired buys it and they're like this is too small. It's like well, you need a magnifying glass.

Speaker 1 37:13

We told you that so hot takes on this game better than final fantasy. 7 not yet okay, okay, more satisfying than most games you've played absolutely, it's one of the best games I've ever played really okay. How many hours did you put into it? Like 35 okay, yeah, you definitely didn't grind enough the reviews. I watch the non-spoiler reviews. They're like oh yeah, like 35?

Speaker 1 37:53

Okay, yeah, you definitely didn't grind enough. Yeah, no, like the reviews. I watched the non-spoiler reviews. They're like oh yeah, you need 50 hours in order to beat this in a way, so like you just were like I beat it in 35. Yeah, you did A. You went from A to B to C to D to E. No exploration.

Speaker 2 38:08

The story was just so compelling.

Speaker 1 38:15

I didn't realize there were other places I could go. I understand that, okay. Third, can you see me playing it?

Speaker 2 38:21

yes, I think that if you were ever going to play a turn-based game and I know you've played some, a lot, just just different ones than me I think you'd like it a lot.

Speaker 1 38:33

So I really like Octopath. Yeah, I had to restart it once. I think I was like eight or ten hours in and I messed some stuff up and I was just dying and dying, and dying and dying Because I didn't have enough of x item to like, which unlocked a move that I needed to progress in the game, so I just restarted. My concern with a turn-based game and this is going to sound really funny is I'm an idiot like I have great common sense but I do not have great tactical skills okay, I'm not in like a shooter game, for anybody that does may not understand what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 1 39:20

In a shooter game, I use a submachine gun because I can't use a sniper rifle. I basically said the same thing in two different ways I love sniper rifle exactly, yeah, but that's not me. I exactly get what you're saying you're the person in pokemon. That's like I love sniper rifle.

Speaker 2 39:35

Exactly, yeah, but that's not me. I exactly get what you're saying. You're the person in Pokemon that's like oh, this move doesn't do damage, get rid of it.

Speaker 1 39:41

Yes.

Speaker 2 39:42

Yeah, you can win on the easiest difficulty for sure in Expedition 33. With that mindset, you'll feel like some fights are incredibly hard. Hard but it's doable and it's super fun because it all comes down to dodges and parries. Anyway, my strategy the whole game was to put burn on everybody and get as many burn stacks on them so that every time they get a turn they get another big tick of damage. And that took me all the way through the game, marcus.

Speaker 1 40:17

So even if you don't, even if you don't get more elaborate than that, it works yeah, it's gotta burn it down my kid would just start screaming whoa, anyway, yeah but, with the, with expedition 33, I feel like it could be. Uh, it could be a good game for me, but then I think about all the other games that I really want to try.

Speaker 2 40:50

Yeah, like final fantasy 14 with your good friend dr gamology.

Speaker 1 40:54

We're doing it, we're gonna we're gonna set up a day and see. The problem is, is the perfect night for us to play? There's wrestling on, because we're both available, but we're both busy watching wrestling. For me, I could skip SmackDown on Friday night and watch it Saturday morning instead. That's just me. But you won't do that because that's father son time and I get it. Yeah, your son, and it's like my me too.

Speaker 2 41:24

Both my kids now love wrestling and wrestling is giving us so much good right now, oh my gosh. I know that we're not really a wrestling podcast, but I had a lot of fun watching Money in the Bank over the weekend.

Speaker 1 41:39

Me too.

Speaker 2 41:40

I think this show has evolved into just two dudes, adults talking about real life dude, we talked about this on my stream today and would you like to know what my good friends doritos and tilap told me? Oh sure, I want to hear this. They said and I'm gonna make this sound as mean as I can- to me because it'll be more funny for the show.

Speaker 2 42:06

They said, doc, your show is gone, you're just a co-host on working class nerds. Now you don't even talk about psychology research anymore. You just show up and you talk about the same things you talk about on the stream, but it's working class nerds. And I was just like, well, damn, like let's, let's just take the whole thing off the internet, rebrand it and like, redo the intros on the 15 episodes and we can just be working class nerds 2.0. So basically what I got from that and I talked to my sister about this today at lunch too um, like she said, she really misses the idea of having some segments.

Speaker 2 43:05

But she listed some of the segments we used to do that were like, yeah, you didn't need that one. And I was like, yeah, that's exactly why we don't do it anymore. But I think that we should have a personal challenge to have a little bit more of a topic that we're gonna hit, so that way I can find the good psychology research and show off exactly the expert that's changing the world that I actually am today listen, I have no problem being pinky.

Speaker 2 43:37

Yeah, so everybody like this is very tongue-in-cheek, really. The reason the format of the show is the way it is is kind of a function of me being super busy, but I still really want the show to exist. So we're here and this is what it is now. So, marcuscus, instead of taking that as a dig, I listen listen, man.

Speaker 1 43:57

You asked me to come here. Wait, no, no, no, no, I'm going into this. You asked me to join this. You know what I bring. I am. I am me, like I'm going to talk. I'm going to talk whatever the comes out of my mouth. You've gotten me to be more pg-13 than I ever have in my life didn't you just say what the fuck?

Speaker 2 44:21

no, five seconds ago. No, I said f I. I left it blank, so oh, that's so nice of you, so thoughtful.

Speaker 1 44:28

Sorry, everyone no, they don't want to hear it, but my point.

Speaker 2 44:31

No, I said it. I said it when I was accusing you, I know. That's our PG-13 F-bomb, everybody.

Speaker 1 44:39

Well, so a couple things I'm going to say, and we are such good friends that our conversation. I look at this show as you always bring some kind of psychology into it. If you want to bring more into it, it's all power to you. Like, I'm never going to say no, because I think it's fascinating to listen to. Sometimes it's a little much and I might like fall asleep because that's not my area of expertise. But I also will put it on you because, like on Monday, you should make a note that at 6 am you're going to come pick a topic that we have to touch on and text me topic Capero. I can do that.

Speaker 2 45:22

Well, so then, do it, do it, yeah, like suck less. I would love to be Gunther and you can be Jey Uso, and I just put you to sleep with my research. Sleeper hold every single week.

Speaker 1 45:35

I feel like I am the balance to where, when you really get into a tangent and you, because you can talk forever.

Speaker 2 45:44

I can, but you can too, so don't point that finger at me, sir.

Speaker 1 45:48

No, no, no. But you interjected when I was going to say is you talks? You can speak so long because you do presentations, you do have done research papers, you counsel people like you. Your job is to talk. I just like to talk, right, but when there's a topic that has a psychology something involved with it, you can go on and on, and I'm the type of guy I'd be like, okay, we've said enough let's, and I can like insert myself. But for me, on the topic, oh my gosh, go ahead.

Podcast Evolution and Book Awards

Speaker 1 46:25

No, the final part of this is I've always been the type of person with a podcast that when somebody listens to us talk, I want them to feel like they're sitting down with us at a table and we're just having a conversation. Because if they ever hang out with you for three hours, like if you sit with Doc and you're hanging out with them at some point in that three-hour block, there's going to be like, oh my God, I did a research study on X, y or Z at some point and it's going to come out out anyways. So it's just natural. Anyways, what were you gonna say?

Speaker 2 47:00

oh, on the topic of me having tons of words, like a hundred thousand of them, I wrote a book called the gamer's journey right, marcus, and I actually got something in the mail related to that book today. Oh, I don't know. This is from the Book Awards, where I won in the psychology category. It is a roll of stickers with the logo of the Book Award that says winner that I can put on the covers of all the books that I sell from my shopify store. So, um, if you anyone listening, uh, that wants to buy a copy, if you buy it from me and not other places, you'll have a special winner sticker from the impact book Awards. I will also be doing my first giveaway for my community on Sunday. We're going to be doing one book going out to someone. We hit our subscriber goal for the month of June Just the strongest community support I've ever had.

Speaker 2 48:10

On Twitch and the people watching me right now. It's been so much fun and I can't even express how grateful I am for everyone who's showing up. But Twitch has been a blast. Marcus and I've been hanging about five days a week outside of my vacation week like for a solid month because of Expedition 33. But I continued it even though I beat that game because of Expedition 33, but I continued it even though I beat that game, and I'm actually just playing whatever game feels right, based on either how I feel in the morning or based on what's hot on Twitch and whether I want to be a part of that. And so that's why I gave Night Ring so many extra shots, because I was like it's good for me to be playing this game even if it ends in tragedy, and a lot of people like watching the tragedy, so I'm happy to give that to you.

Speaker 1 49:02

Go ahead.

Speaker 2 49:04

This week was just Expedition 33, then Night Reign and then Final Fantasy XIV today, and that is so awesome.

Speaker 1 49:12

How much? Okay, first thing, this is maybe a community question for me. I wouldn't want that sticker stuck to the front cover because the cover is so beautiful, and the back? I'd want it like you open it up. That's where I would put the sticker, because I wouldn't want to, like ruin the cover of the book, because if I want to peel it off and then you rip the cover, I'd cry on the inside.

Speaker 2 49:39

Yeah, that's a really good point. So whenever I have signed books at conventions, I usually sign on this page, yeah, um. Or or this page where my name is like right there Pretty big, so I could put the sticker on there.

Speaker 1 49:53

Yeah, that's a good point, I wouldn't want to ruin it, um I need to buy one of your books because I want to do a giveaway on the podcast. I want to test the community.

Speaker 2 50:12

That is something that we could do. A lot of the podcasts that I listen to do it with um.

Speaker 1 50:18

Every time you leave a a review yeah get entered into the drawing yes, we could totally do that. Yeah, yeah, we can do like a month-long campaign and then whoever in a month does leaves a review, they'll go into the thing and they can win a book. I'll purchase the book and I'll. I will sponsor this oh, that's so nice.

Speaker 2 50:41

but also the way I look at it too is when I set a subscriber goal on twitch, if it's supporting me to that extent we actually hit it. Then it's like I've already sold many copies of the book. So I just like giving back to the people. You know, I think it is a real point in commerce where if you have goods, somebody has to have bought it before it's leaving your inventory. But it's still a really good feeling to be able to say like hey, everyone, thank you. Oh, I agree. Yep, so that was a big thing this morning. I was not expecting that to be in my mailbox, I didn't even know that was a thing. So seeing those stickers and being like what did they send me this for? So that was cool.

Speaker 1 51:34

That is radical.

Speaker 2 51:40

What's the matter? I'm just trying to think. What are we doing now?

Reliving Games for the First Time

Speaker 1 51:45

Well, it's funny. You should say that I have a question for you. Okay, let's do it. If you could go back in time and play a game again for the first time, what would it be? I feel like we should have the Jeopardy music going.

Speaker 2 52:10

Yeah, no, there are super serious answers and then there's quirky ones and I feel like do you know the game, katherine? No, oh my gosh, so it's. It's an anime game by Atlus they're the same company that makes Persona but it's actually about a guy who is dating a woman named Catherine, but he cheats on her with a woman named Catherine with a C, so his Beyonce is with a K.

Speaker 1 52:50

Is it Catherine Classic? Yep, I'm looking at it right now.

Speaker 2 52:53

Yeah, Beyonce is with a K, is it Catherine Classic? Yep, I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, so the whole gameplay is when you're in your dreams. You have to climb blocks before they fall and get away from the demonic monsters that are trying to kill you. But it's very Jungian dream analysis kind of stuff, like all the monsters represent things that you're afraid of in the story of the game. In your real life, yep, monsters represent things that you're afraid of in the story of the game in your real life.

Speaker 2 53:14

Yep and I Platinum Trophied that game on its original version and I just think it would be so fun to play it again without all those memories.

Speaker 1 53:26

Okay.

Speaker 2 53:37

But also runners-up would be things like Heavy Rain or Persona 5 or Person or bioshock infinite or kingdom hearts sure what? What kinds of games would hit your list?

Speaker 1 53:40

for something like that. If I had to pick one, it would be star wars, the old republic. Okay, like if I had to stop. You know, I thought about this all week because I like throwing things at you, because if you have a lot of time to think about it, you go crazy in depth for the reason. But for me, I thought about it and I went very in depth and I thought about, like your Final Fantasy seven or Mass Effect two or Mass Effect 2.

Speaker 1 54:13

And I really thought about it and I'm like man, when I booted up Star Wars, the Old Republic, when Julia was born, and I actually gave it a chance because I played it when it first came out and I played it for two weeks and I was like, okay, I'm going back to Call of Duty and I got immersed in the story because it was star wars and like I was a jedi and, oh, like I was lost in it. Or maybe I was a sith, maybe I was a marauder and darth barris was a jerk. Either way, whatever that story was, I was like blown away that a game could do this and that it didn't. I'm gonna do my quotation marks. It wasn't gonna end, just blew me away, and if I could have that feeling again, that's what I would do, you know yeah, I was thinking to myself while you were describing that why didn't I say that?

Speaker 2 55:15

and then I was thinking, why didn't I say journey? And then I I think that those two games have given me so much that I would be afraid to mess with it in time travel and risk ending up being an entirely different person.

Speaker 1 55:35

I don't think you have it in you to be a different person. Continue the journey.