The Gaming Persona

Game Mechanics or Shopping Mall? The Fortnite Conundrum

• Daniel Kaufmann Ph.D. | Dr. Gameology • Season 5 • Episode 20

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Three gaming enthusiasts dive deep into what makes certain games addiction machines while leaving others abandoned after mere hours of play. We explore the psychology behind our gaming habits and debate whether microtransactions should be considered legitimate game mechanics or just economic exploitation.

• Fortnite as a "shopping mall" rather than just a game - analyzing the psychology of V-Bucks stores and limited-time offers
• The power of a game's first few hours to hook players or lose their interest completely
• Why Claire Obscure Expedition 33's dark premise creates an almost existential gaming experience
• Mass Effect's slow-burn approach to storytelling and why it struggles to hook some players initially
• How gameplay style varies dramatically between rushed story progression versus thorough world exploration
• What each host considers their personal threshold for abandoning games (from 3 hours to 20+ hours)
• Discussion of whether microtransactions are legitimate game mechanics or purely economic systems

Join us next time as we possibly venture into World of Warcraft or Fortnite together to experience these games as a team!


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Thanks for Listening, and Continue The Journey!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Gaming Persona Podcast. I'm MarcusB814. I'm joined by my esteemed best friend, dr Gamology, and we're here to talk about video games and sidebars. Why? Because that's what I do I'm here for the sidebar, he's here to drop psychology on you, and this is our show right now.

Speaker 2:

What are you going to spend your V-Bucks on Marcus?

Speaker 1:

So I thought about that and there's. I'm not really a skin guy, but there's a. It's called like something caliente, it's a red hot pepper. I could see myself running around the world of Fortnite as a red pepper or just wait for something really good. My son got deadpool, but it's like comic book, like cell shade deadpool, like with the black outline, so it's.

Speaker 2:

That's actually rad, but it's gone now yeah, fortnight does a lot to encourage us to part with our money in a time-sensitive way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's gross, it's really frustrating. Yeah, it's actually amazing, but that's the mechanics of that game.

Speaker 2:

That's not a game mechanic, that is financial blackmail. Marcus.

Speaker 1:

It's definitely a mechanic of that game. The reason why that game is free is because they have the mechanic of you going to the cash shop and buying V-Bucks.

Speaker 2:

We just created a whole different topic, but we're going to talk about this and we have a tiebreaker with us.

Speaker 3:

Oh boy, I'll try no.

Speaker 1:

Try not Ooh Jey Uso. What Did he sign that? Look at this. Ready for this. Try not Ooh Jey Uso. What's up?

Speaker 2:

Did he sign that like in front of you? He was right there. Wow, that's so great. So, okay, Microtransactions are not a game mechanic. That is capitalism, Marcus. It is outside of the realm of the skill of the player interacting with the avatar on the screen. I agree with that it is just how you look.

Speaker 1:

But it is the mechanic of the people that created the game. They said they're going to create a mechanic to drive people to purchase stuff. Yes, it's a micro transaction. Yes, it has nothing to do with me running through and gunning somebody down and if I die I have to restart a map. But they built that into the game's mechanics to get you to spend money. But, it's not a game's mechanic.

Speaker 3:

It's a real-life mechanic as part of the economy, but it is not part of the game-critical mechanics.

Speaker 2:

But it is, it's advertising, it's consumerism, it's the haves versus the have-nots.

Speaker 1:

So just pause. We're going to pause Everybody here. If you don't know who's talking in the background, that's good old Doritos. He's joining us tonight and he's here to team up with Doc against me to shut all of my good points down that are going through my head.

Speaker 2:

I'm marcus. I don't have friends. You're gonna turn me into a cyber bully, marcus, good I thought that was the way ambulance, it's okay the way.

Speaker 1:

Ambulance, all right, but what I'm saying is it may not be a game mechanic, but it is in. They created that mechanic for people to purchase stuff Right, fortnite is a shopping mall.

Speaker 2:

Is what you're saying.

Speaker 1:

You know, I actually very much agree with you on that. You want me to tell you why. Yeah, yeah, do it. So my son has started playing. Every day he starts to play the game, he goes right to the vbucks store to see what's available. Now he doesn't have any vbucks, but he likes to peruse.

Speaker 3:

But just like dad has vbucks shopping right.

Speaker 1:

So he's window shopping. So you're right. So you go to the mall. If you I don't know when last time you guys went to an actual mall, but if you did go to a mall, um, if you go to a mall, you are trying to go to lids to buy a hat. I'll just use that as an example. You're gonna walk by, you're gonna go, uh, you're gonna walk by a bunch of stores and you might stop into that store knowing you're gonna walk by. You're gonna go, uh, you're gonna walk by a bunch of stores and you might stop into that store knowing you're not gonna buy anything, but you want a window shop. It's the same thing with the vbucks store, and then he'll play some matches and then a little while later he'll go back and look at the same stuff.

Speaker 2:

It's crazy yeah, I remember a couple months ago there was mortal combat stuff in fortnight and then the very next month it was star wars stuff and I thought at that period of time I might start playing fortnight. So I bought john cena as a playable character. I did one match. I died because I didn't realize that there was fall damage in that game and I jumped off a cliff to save time and I saved a bunch of time. I made the match very short, uh, and then I never went back to it. Um, so I would, in theory, I would love to become more of a part of fortnite. I don't know how that would translate in terms of my streamer style. One of the cool things about having you on the show doritos is, you know, twitch screws up the watch streaks all the time, like there's people where I show up and my streak just disappears, goes from 32 to one. It's like I didn't miss anything.

Speaker 2:

But I'm sure if twitch had accurate stream stre, you'd be in like 125 for me, like you're always there you become one of my very best friends that I get to talk to when I go live, and I really appreciate you for that. So it's awesome to have you be a part of the show and talk with us about game mechanics and whatever else comes up tonight. Indeed.

Speaker 1:

I'm actually excited because he's going to bring a different take to all of our conversations. Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2:

I'm the correct perspective, and then you're the Marcus perspective and then Doritos will be the I support Doc perspective.

Speaker 1:

I'll take it. My perspective is right in my head.

Speaker 3:

That's the only place it needs to be right in. That's fine.

Speaker 1:

Exactly that's like when you argue with yourself you don't lose the argument. So, but I'm going to bring you to Fortnite. So I have played Call of Duty Battle Royal. I've played, I've played a bunch of Battle Royale games. Right, I will say Fortnite has to be the most fun. And I don't know why I don't do the building stuff, because that is not for me.

Speaker 3:

So you all do the no build.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I do the no build. And what I'm saying is the gameplay itself is fun. You know and maybe it's because they haven't put me in lobbies with people that are way better than me I don't win every time, but sometimes you go against some good people. But the mechanic, the mechanic, the base mechanics of the game, which you jump out of the battle bus, you land, you find your weapons or your loot and you go around, it's fun. Even when I get smoked in the first five minutes or 30 seconds, it's still fun. And that's not even when I'm not playing with my son when, on the flip side, you jump into Call of Duty Warzone. It's not as fun.

Speaker 3:

Why not?

Speaker 1:

I don't know the feel of it. Maybe Maybe the look, maybe like Fortnite the cartoony kind of look makes it more fun. I don't know. I don't have that answer.

Speaker 2:

I think Call of Duty is locked into one aesthetic. Fortnight's aesthetic opens itself up to everything. Right, like you can have deadpool, you can have an ai darth vader that you chat with your headset and it talks back to you. You you can have WWE, superstars, characters from other games, movies, cartoons, comics, anime it's all in there. And sometimes it's very unique the way it's integrated into the battle style of Fortnite. Other times it's just a skin with the same guns as everybody else. So I just think Fortnite has captured the zeitgeist of the modern era of gaming. It's when did that game come out? Like 2015, ish, 16, maybe I?

Speaker 1:

don't know.

Speaker 2:

It just feels like it is such a dominant force for making people who don't know what video games are Think that they know what video games are, think that they know what video games are like. In my field psychology and mental health counseling, a lot of people's entire opinion about what video games do to children and adolescents is based on a few 30 second clips they saw and some tantrums that they saw that are connected to fortnight like that's.

Speaker 2:

That's what they think video games are. So when I try to talk to them about how beautiful and tragic expedition 33 is, they're like what's that? And then I can't explain it to them because it is not like fortnight and all their brains will absorb is but how is that like Fortnite? So it's become the baseline for things that I have no interest in talking about usually.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's because you play different games. Doritos, how old is your son?

Speaker 3:

Oh geez, he's 12 now.

Speaker 1:

Does he play Fortnite?

Speaker 3:

He has and he enjoys it. He thinks it's fun. Right now he play fortnight. He has and he enjoys it. He thinks it's fun. Right now he plays more um farming games at the moment. Farming simulator yeah, it styles from theirs yeah yeah, those have really taken off too but but he's, he does that, he's done, he does world of tanks, he does a couple of smaller uh things he's found on Steam for a couple bucks here and there that he enjoys doing, but he still plays that genre of Battle Royale games.

Speaker 1:

Hmm.

Speaker 3:

Okay, and Fortnite will be eight years old in two weeks. It came out July 25th 2017.

Speaker 2:

Wait, fortnite came out july 25th 2017. Wait, fortnight's came out when I became a professor. I remember this. It wasn't actually out when I started teaching people. My career is as old as fortnight everybody.

Speaker 1:

I think the other thing too is they have creator, creator, created events like modes and they make multiple different kinds of modes so like, if you don't feel like just a battle royale, you can do something else.

Speaker 2:

You can do rock band stuff in there really. Yeah, they have rhythm games inside fortnight I didn't know that yep, they do. Wow, they have a dj mode as well and they have lego fortnight inside that I do know yep, um, there's so many different things inside fortnite that expand beyond just the basic stuff, and maybe that's why it's lasted this long it's a platform now. It's not just one game with one style of match. It's it's an environment for gamers to gather thousands and thousands, millions every day.

Speaker 1:

I wonder what. I wish there was a steam chart for fortnite, but it's not on steam because yeah, that would let me say crossing the streams, marcus.

Speaker 3:

Oh man, no I know careful across the streams gets dangerous what is that?

Speaker 2:

who who owns tencent does fortnite right, like eventually, if you get through all the ownership of this and that is that right daily login but when you look at the news reports for games, consumerism fortnight has been number one across all platforms, except like the switch for so long.

Speaker 1:

Wow, yeah so players right now 1.2 million. 24 hour peak 1.5 million all-time peak. Seven months ago, 14 million players. That's a lot of people playing the game seven months ago would put us.

Speaker 3:

Put us back to what christmas yeah, wow, christmas time that's crazy.

Speaker 1:

It has to be one of the most played games, right?

Speaker 2:

Should I try to stream Fortnite and see what happens? You should.

Speaker 3:

You could yeah.

Speaker 1:

Steam Summer Sale is over. Did you buy anything? Good, I sure did. What'd you get? Mortal Kombat 1. And I'd never. I wanted to buy Nier Automata or whatever it's called. Automata, automata, yeah, I was going to buy that because it was like $9 in like the oh no, $16. But I never bought it before it was. So it's in my cart and I'm removing it now. Oh, so sad. That's fine, but I did buy Mortal Kombat 1, and that is one mechanic of a game I wanted to chat with you guys about Doritos. Have you ever played Mortal Kombat?

Speaker 3:

Back when it came out in the original arcade yes, like Mortal Kombat 1, mortal Kombat 2?. The original original. The original original.

Speaker 1:

All right.

Speaker 3:

The original when it came out in the arcade. You had to go actually put coin quarters in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. That's where my origin story as a gamer is too, is. Mortal Kombat 1 at Pizza Hut.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I remember it. And then I remember when it came out for the Sega Genesis and the blood code is A-B-A-C-A-B-B because they would not allow blood to be in it when you have a cab. Have a cab, got it? Yep, um, so I bought it when I was on vacation and it's actually turned out to be really good. Like I'm not into it for the online gaming, I'm just doing it for the story, because you do a match and it's like a five minute cut scene into another match to another five minute cut scene. It's actually pretty awesome and I'm playing it. I don't know what I'm playing it on. There's there's like the hardest and then there's something called very easy, easy and then normal or medium, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

I'm playing it on easy because I'm doing it for the story there's nothing wrong with that, I think one of the stories in the new era of mortal combat, which is nine up through now. Um, I was playing on the highest difficulty and had to tune it down on the very last fight of the story. They just made shao kahn, in my opinion, impossible. Uh, and then, ever since then, I've just been doing easy mode, because I I don't tend to go into higher difficulties very often anymore right, but it's.

Speaker 1:

It's actually compelling because the story is good and for me now with the steam deck, I can play literally five or ten minutes and shut it off and feel good and then if I have a free five minutes I can do another match. Yeah, I'm breaking up the story, but they replay the cut scene that you just were in before when you start it back up. So for me it's a.

Speaker 2:

It's a great steam deck game yeah, I play it on the steam deck also. It's one of those games that I own on both playstation and in steam and it's solid as a steam deck compatible fighting game sure very good.

Speaker 1:

I uh also, I sold my laptop what yep.

Speaker 1:

So, uh, how to look around, or well, no, so I I bought the steam deck. I fell in love. I don't need a laptop. It's got a 40, 80 in it. It's a beast. And a friend of mine who I watch wrestling with, he's been looking for a laptop and I was like, hey, man, I'll give you a great deal. He's like how much? And he went to alien where's website and he's like dude, that that's a $3,000 laptop. And I said, yeah, he goes, I'll buy it. Perfect, yeah.

Speaker 1:

There, you go and the Steam Deck has taken over for me, that I don't need it and I don't have to re-buy anything, because everything that I have on Steam is on that.

Speaker 2:

That's a good point. Also, I bought you Claireire obscure expedition 33, so do you want to get into that? Let me talk about one purchase that I made. Besides that, first, and then we will get into that. Okay, okay, great. I have purchased the most beautiful in my hands controller that has ever been created. You bought a gold shadow. No, the playstation dual shock edge it's right here.

Speaker 2:

See, it's got little function buttons right here to change profiles as the little toggles for controlling how deep you push the r buttons. So now, like I can shoot you so fast now and uh, you can actually take off the shiny plate here and replace the thumbsticks when they wear out or start having bad connection with the controller, voila. So instead of buying a new 80 controller, you just buy one or two new thumbsticks for 10 or 15 bucks, so I never have to buy a new playstation controller ever again, because this is my baby. I was playing stellar blade until like midnight last night, just interesting.

Speaker 1:

Ah yeah, you mean booby blades.

Speaker 2:

No, stellar Blade is an amazing game with parrying and dodge mechanics and devil may cry combo systems.

Speaker 1:

With the dead or alive boob mechanics.

Speaker 2:

Listen, you got to make life fun, Marcus.

Speaker 1:

I do and this is fun to me, I am.

Speaker 3:

Full-fledged jiggle mechanics all the way.

Speaker 1:

There's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 3:

Didn't say, there was yeah.

Speaker 1:

Not you.

Speaker 2:

Maybe I should play Stellar Blade as my next stream game and see what happens to my channel. You know, on that topic, youtube gives me recommendations trying to get me to come back and make a YouTube video. Right, because they have their creator suite and they're like here's the next five videos we think you should make, which is a really cool feature that they've added. Two of the next five videos they want me to make are about Tifa and Final Fantasy, and then one of the other five is about continuing to talk about Ada Wong, or Ada Wong and Jill Valentine in Resident Evil games, because apparently all the things I talk and the two of them they want me to do about Sora and Kingdom Hearts and the power of friendship. So there is some wholesome things YouTube wants me to make too. I'm just saying they really just want me to talk about more video game girls, because that's what people are clicking on on my channel. Let me ask you a question.

Speaker 1:

This is a real deep rooted question. That is like discussed all over the internet. This is a real deep rooted question. That is like discussed all over the internet. If you have a game that is exactly the same mechanics and it's hard. Just let me get through this Cause. I'm trying to say it, right, but the, the protagonist is a female, but one has a wonderful outfit on and looks like I don't know. It's hard for me to say it like you know, a stellar blade female versus not. Are you more likely to play a game that has the stellar blade style, female or the other, or does it not matter to you?

Speaker 2:

I think gameplay actually does matter here. I, in a way, talk about something like this a few times in my book, like this a few times in my book, and the example that I use is talking about the difference between uncharted and tomb raider, or devil may cry and bayonetta, or metroid, super metroid and castlevania, super Metroid and Castlevania they are all three of those are pairs of games that are essentially the same game. The only difference is the environment, aesthetic and the protagonist and antagonist and their actual personifications as characters. Right, but Nathan Drake and Lara Croft are doing the same thing in their games. Right, you try to play stealth until you suck and then you shoot your way and punch your way out of it Right Over and over.

Speaker 2:

And I think that attractiveness of characters does factor into people forming memories and bonds with the characters. Antagonist is always going to shift people towards the sexualized option, because the story in that game and how true that game is to itself and what the player feels like while they're playing, like some games are designed in a way that is just, you're manipulating me, but this is not that great of a game. Once I realized the manipulation isn't fun anymore, okay, and then other times the hyper sexualized game may flat out be the better video game too, and so that's a very hard combination to avoid being interested in. But I don't think anybody here is arguing that Mortal Kombat is the more important fighting franchise than Dead or Alive right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well.

Speaker 2:

And then Street Fighter is probably number one, right?

Speaker 1:

I was just going to say, gonna say that right, so that's where I, so that's where uh, tech and no, I would say tekken's number three.

Speaker 2:

I would say street fighter and mortal combat are number one and two tech and I think street fighter is definitely the more technical video game, and I think its characters are usually less sexualized than mortal kombats. Did you see the new one? Well, mortal kombat's gotten way more toned down since mortal kombat xl.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um, street fighters gotten a lot more pushing the envelope, I think yeah, I guess I I'm glad you I'm glad, I'm glad I asked the question, because that's the stuff that makes me think about. Like, I think about it because I it was on, I was watching a youtube video and they were talking about that and I'm like you know what I gotta ask doc, but doritos, what is your opinion on that?

Speaker 3:

Well, fighting games are not my thing, but as far as the hyper-sexualization of the characters and stuff, definitely I would probably have to agree with Doc on this one that Street Fighter has gotten more. I think that Mortal Kombat hit a plateau, that they're comfortable with, that the audience that plays that series has become accustomed with and is expecting to see, and nothing more wild than that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm looking at the Street Fighter VI lineup.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I haven't played Street Fighter VI yet.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I'm looking at the lineup and I would say street fighter 6, I'm looking at it. They're wearing more clothes than probably mortal combat, but things are just exaggerated you know, they have the cartoony it's like when the WWE wrestlers go to Saudi Arabia.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, you know, we just had a PLE. That was about that Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was a good one too.

Speaker 2:

PLE Premium Live Event, in case you didn't know.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, doc for breaking that down for us.

Speaker 2:

Alright, I talk about things all the time that my audience does not know. Actually, that's one of the number one pieces of feedback I've gotten recently is I need to actually invest my time in making simpler pieces of content for that kind of audience because, um, psychology professionals, when they see video games, they just see flashing lights and they don't know what they're actually looking at, like a firework display or something.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So very obscure. Expedition 33, marcus.

Speaker 1:

So on vacation, I started to play it. I downloaded it on the Steam Deck and I started to play it. I downloaded it on the Steam Deck and I started to play it. If anybody knows me, I am a graphical whore. I like pretty, I want my games at ultra Like. It matters to me and the Steam Deck does a wonderful job rendering the games. Claire is just too good for that system. It's choppy and not choppy. It's smooth, but you can see the pixels. You know what I mean. It's almost too much for it and it matters. So I played the. I don't know the first hour and a half or two hours where you're in that opening world. That's teaching you that you can dodge, you can par. Know the first hour and a half or two hours where you're like in that opening world. It's teaching you that you can dodge, you can parry, you can do the things. And I got to the end and saw the premise of this story and I'm not spoiling it, but the premise of this story is dark.

Speaker 1:

But, you had an existential crisis? Well, yes, but like I was, was I didn't know, so I knew nothing about the game. Any video I've watched on it's like things to do before you do this. You know what I mean like beginner's guide, but they don't like and I don't click on anything that says unless it says no spoilers. I am not watching it because I'm adamant. I don't want to know well, what happened at the end of that entrance area I was like are you fucking kidding me?

Speaker 2:

like is this real?

Speaker 1:

and like, and then watching the outcome of it and like the city streets change, I was like, oh damn. It was like how I felt when the reapers first showed up in um mass effect. I was like, oh damn, shit got real, real quick and I was. I'm like man, I gotta play this game. So I'm gonna play it on my computer and I'm starting it this weekend on my computer. I'm gonna start fresh.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna do that opening area again, because I did it and find the mime oh my god, marcus, you just stumbled into probably the dumbest part of my twitch channel's history it was was awesome, come on. I restarted the game three times on the same stream.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm restarting it because I feel like I don't know if this, like the opening area, is a linear path, or should I be deviating. You know what I mean, you should be deviating. Right and I know, have fun. Well, I know it's not you, yeah, just have fun.

Speaker 2:

Well, okay, I did explore in.

Speaker 1:

So Dorito's point I have to comment on this. Dorito's point is that I did not 100% Elden Ring because I could have gave a shit, but I did it. Like Limgrieve, I definitely 100% it. The Weeping Peninsula definitely 100% it, everywhere else can eat a bag of ding-dongs. Because I did not. I did the things I had to do. I kind of ran around and I just moved on Like as soon as I like. How about this? I ADD'd, adhd'd Elden Ring. When I got sick of an area I was just like ooh squirrel over there and then half the time I didn't go back.

Speaker 3:

You probably never found deep root depths, did you? Oh, I did kill Moak. Oh, that's not deep root depths, though.

Speaker 1:

Which one's that one? You haven't found it then huh, oh, is that the tree branches?

Speaker 3:

Tree roots.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, tree roots, and you go all the way down. There's a lot of ants yeah yeah, I found that and I died and then I quit. Yeah, anyways. But my point is that, um, like there's a hidden boss somewhere where, like you fall through a floor I think it's in the subterranean shunning ground somewhere. I have no idea where that thing is. I did not kill that boss. That's underneath the ground, like you fall through the floor that game really is so massive, though.

Speaker 2:

I've completed it five times and I know there are bosses that I've still never killed. Right, you have to actively look for everything and have a lot of free time in order to 100 like I've platinum trophied the game, I have not 100 at the game okay, yeah, I'll get it then.

Speaker 3:

Then I then I too, have platinum trophied it because I've got all the Steam achievements taken care of.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Let's see, let's find out. But anyway, back to Claire. I feel like I did it wrong and I'm going to go back and I'm going to start over because I want to explore, kind of like I did in Lim limb grave, because I have a feeling there's going to be something there that I want later.

Speaker 2:

I finished the game and had exactly that same feeling that I did it wrong. Okay, so you know, I think Doritos is onto something with the whole. You should have just tried to have fun the whole time instead of being sucked into the story and that's the only thing you care about that period I swear period oh my gosh, I really am excited whenever my my next stream where I do choose exhibition 33 to it with the edge controller.

Speaker 2:

I'm really curious how much I have to adjust, because the last two streams of that game I have been really good at parrying so my brain finally adjusted after what game pass did to my brain where harrying felt so good on game pass. And then there's, for whatever reason, on my regular PS5 controller there's more delay on pushing the button and I never mentally adjusted to that.

Speaker 2:

So I'm really curious what happens with the pro controller it's gonna be good it's like having the right hockey skates I love my hockey skates I know you do. That's why I said it, bauer, at my pro has co-hosts yeah, you are, yeah, definitely okay.

Speaker 1:

So, doritos, what have you been playing? I'm saving Doc what he's been playing, because I can't wait for this.

Speaker 3:

What have I been playing? Well, I started, actually after the previous attempt at this podcast, I started Nier Automata. Yeah, I went and got myself a cheap, not a fancy one, but I do have a cheap controller 25 bucks, rechargeable, lasts about eight hours, I don't care. But I can actually play the game with it now. Because that was one thing, because with that game it changes perspective from a limited open world to side scroller, to top down. So it depends on how you move through the environment, how the controls adjust automatically. Interesting, it's a fun game. I'm having a blast with it.

Speaker 1:

How many hours you in.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I don't know, probably about eight or nine.

Speaker 1:

Let's see Did you get it on the Steam sale.

Speaker 3:

No, I had it well before the Steam sale. Okay, sorry, I'm 15 hours in. That's a lot. Yeah, not for me, because I'll sit there and explore and spend an hour, hour and a half trying to get somewhere. I'm probably not supposed to go.

Speaker 2:

Well, no, just 15 hours is a significant time investment in an adult working professional's life. That's all I was saying.

Speaker 3:

Like yeah, you totally play a game 15 hours and accomplish nothing.

Speaker 2:

That's easy to do. That's what MMO games are all about.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm not going to talk about it. And I'm still obviously playing Surtur. I get my daily login and go do things, and it's currently the nightlife event now, so let the gambling begin.

Speaker 2:

Oh, the Gamble event.

Speaker 1:

That's sweet, I hope.

Speaker 3:

But those are the two games I'm playing right now. I did put the list of games I swooped up on the summer sale.

Speaker 1:

Oh, let's hear them.

Speaker 3:

So we've got Ori and the Black Forest.

Speaker 1:

That's a good game.

Speaker 3:

We've got Arise, A Simple Story.

Speaker 1:

I don't know what that is.

Speaker 3:

Gris, I actually got that one from my daughter. That one looks like a really cool game. It's got an art style in the game I think she'd like, so I got that for her Gris. You said Gris, yeah gris, yeah gris. I put it in the in the um apps chat um hollow knight swoop, that one gerbil, the space program, uh, andromeda, it's a mass effect of dromeda and a tower defense game balloons td6 I'm looking at secret quite a haul so many titles, so many options.

Speaker 3:

I got a few games for my kids too, so I think you know we got what like a dozen games for under 100 wow yeah that's smart purchasing you're much better at shopping than me.

Speaker 2:

I just buy the biggest deluxe edition game it's like oh, I'm done I'm done for the month one game.

Speaker 3:

So, uh, I did, and I just so I did start uh because I wanted to test out the controller. So I'm going to play a play through uh, mass effect, legendary with another character. So I started that uh over the holiday weekend oh, mass effect, did you say yeah, well, I've already played through it once.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I know that that's so amazing, isn't it an amazing game?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this is premeditated. Let's go, Marcus.

Speaker 1:

So you know, just so you guys know, I watched a video and it was ranking the 10 best games ever made, or 15 best games ever made, I think number 12 was Mass Effect 2.

Speaker 3:

Okay, in this, in this thing I didn't expect it.

Speaker 1:

I like watching stuff like this because you may I like hearing other people's perspectives. The pre-meditation version of this is I've been trying to get doc to play mass effect for about eight years and every time he does it he it's some baloney excuse that he has to play final fantasy 7 rebirth for the 12th time on the hardest difficulty because stream needs it well, what the stream needs is the enthusiastic version of me and and final fantasy 7 rebirthbirth on Dynamic Difficulty was possibly the best version of me that has ever existed and this week Doc played Mass Effect.

Speaker 2:

I did and I created Doc Shepard ok, because John is not a name that has ever made anybody excited about anything, so I had to be Doc. It's that little connection that makes me feel connected to the character. So I'm male Commander Shepard and I did play Mass Effect in about 2015 on an Xbox 360, but I only made about 10 hours in and then life happened. I never came back, so I did have some general memories about what's the guy's name Saris or Saren or something Saren.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I knew, going into that scene, this is a bad dude, he's gonna do a bad thing, right? So dory opens up, he does a bad thing. You show up, oh, you did a bad thing. And then you, you finish that mission, shoot some people, stop something from blowing up, and then you go back to, I guess, headquarters or council capital of the galaxy, and so that's where I stopped it.

Speaker 2:

So I didn't get very far because I played for two hours. But with the way I stream and I mean this, uh, this is something I should. I wish I would have figured out years ago, but I really do prioritize it now. Chat is everything to me, right. So the people showing up that want to talk about me every single stream, if it's two hours, they will be so important that I'm fine only advancing the game 45 minutes, right, like yeah. So that that did happen with mass effect. A lot of people were excited to see me playing it. Um, it was a really fun stream, so we're definitely going to come back. I went to expedition 33 the next morning and somebody joked that mass effect only survived one stream uh, I did defend my what it's clear.

Speaker 1:

Have you gone back since?

Speaker 2:

well, I didn't stream today. Um, I my work schedule, just I could not fit a stream in today. So we're talking about tuesday I did mass effect. Wednesday I did expedition. No, okay, we're gonna come back someday. I'm gonna finish persona 3 someday. I'm gonna finish mass effect someday. I'm gonna stream near automata someday. I'm gonna get my current bunny girl to be level 100 as a paladin. Someday. I will beat hard difficulty on final fantasy 7 rebirth.

Speaker 2:

We got the rest of my life, however long or short that is, and like we just gotta keep our perspective that it's okay for me to wake up in the morning and play something else. There's also date everything, marcus. I have not had any conversations with any fun devices in my house. I talked to the coffee maker, right, I think we're friends. I haven't found anything risque yet, though the bed kind of wants me, so that's a good device to want you. So the premise of date everything is that you are stuck in your house after getting fired and you get these glasses that turn all of your house devices to life and you date them. It's kind of fun, uh. But so there's like four games right now that are all in that one or two stream phase of me starting them.

Speaker 1:

But okay, let me ask you this what's your factors to get you hooked? Like what is? Because? Okay, so I feel like you're the I can. I you're the true MMO player where you can only play one game, but you're not playing an MMO like Final Fantasy XIV, but besides that, you get into Claire and it's like you have to beat it. And now I have to beat it again on the hardest difficulty. But I loved it so much I got to play it again for the third time. And then the same thing with Final Fantasy VII Remake Rebirth. You know what I mean? Elden Ring seven remake rebirth. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2:

elden ring seven times. You know what I mean. Yeah, um, okay. So I loved for years star wars, the old republic. I always will love the old republic and knights of the old republic. Bioware made those. There's a certain style to that, you know. I realized also on that same vein of thought, the game that got me essentially across the finish line for Twitch Partner was Dragon Age, the Veil Guard right, and I had a ton of fun playing that game. Right, and I had a ton of fun playing that game.

Speaker 2:

To answer the question, I'm not a generic sci-fi fan. If it's about sci-fi versus fantasy, I always shift in the fantasy direction. Star Wars, star Wars works for me, perfect, perfectly, because it has the force. I'm not a star trek fan. I'm not a stargate fan. I liked balestar galactica. When it came back in the early 2000s I thought that was pretty fun. Um, but in general, if it's just spaceships and space, it's very easy for me to maybe even fall asleep. No offense to the IP. So Mass Effect, having its aliens and its proper nouns and its attempt attempted a council and politics and dropping me in the middle of that, if I keep playing and I get a little bit more context, I think I will really get into it, but right now it's like watching a one of the series of star trek, where I don't even know who the characters are, and so if I don't keep watching the next five or six episodes then I can walk away from it because it doesn't have the force.

Speaker 3:

No, one has the Reapers, so it's okay.

Speaker 2:

Well, I don't know what the Reapers are. They haven't been introduced yet, so I don't understand why. What Marcus said 10 minutes ago about the Reapers showing up and stuff getting real, I don't know what that means. Keep playing.

Speaker 2:

Well, right, that's the whole thing, you got to keep playing. So the same thing, though, by the way, is happening and has happened repeatedly to me with Persona 3. I have started Persona 3, different versions of it four times in my life and I never push past the beginning, because it's not persona five, it's not persona four either, and so, like, I feel like the things I like are here, but I'm not feeling them, and so maybe I should just replay persona five. Right, the things I like are here, but I'm not feeling it. Yet Maybe I should just play the Knights of the Old Republic, right?

Speaker 1:

Well, so funny you say. That is just to go back to what I was talking about the top 15 games of all time. Persona 5 Royale was number 7.

Speaker 2:

It's so good.

Speaker 1:

I remember you playing that.

Speaker 2:

It's style and it's story. It's characters's characters, right like characters and story for me. Pull me in and then I learn the mechanics.

Speaker 1:

So I agree with you 100, because I'm the same way yeah, so I?

Speaker 2:

what I'm saying about mass effect is I just need them to give me the thing in the story that will become my drug, that I can become fixated with.

Speaker 1:

And Mass Effect is a old-style RPG where you don't get it right away. It's almost like spoon-fed to you.

Speaker 2:

I did enjoy the approach to shooting, shooting things like actually with the control stick. I remember the xbox version not being that way very much well, they update.

Speaker 1:

When they remaster did the legendary edition, they updated all of it mass effect got the most updating out of all the three games Mass Effect 1.

Speaker 2:

And that's the tough thing about that early PS2 to PS3 transitional era is the jump from a PS2 game or PC games that came out in that era and then jumping into PS3, which is where Mass Effect 2 happened. I played the demo of mass effect 2 because it was free on the playstation network. Such a good demo, I remember it. I didn't buy the game, though, because I had not played mass effect 1 back in 2010 and I agree with you.

Speaker 1:

I would say, the first three hours of the game need to hook me or I'm out no matter what. And I think Elden Ring, the only reason why I stuck with Elden Ring is because everybody was telling me I sucked and I had to motivate myself to win. What about you, doritos? What's your motivation to stick to a game?

Speaker 3:

what about you, doritos? What's your motivation to stick to a game? I story, for me, is one of the top things. Um, I like the character customization, but that's not the end, all be all. If I don't get to customize my character, I was like, okay, so like near automata, you're stuck with what you got and you, you play the game. It's it's. How well does the story hook me in? I kind of started judging games on the ability to take you all the way through the tutorials that you need to successfully navigate through the game. Some of them do good. If you're playing mouse and keyboard, okay, here's the WASD controls. And this right mouse click does this left mouse click does that? It's very simple. Here's your key binds If you're using the controller. Okay, here's, you know, triggers, do this? Bumpers, do this? Joysticks pushes. So those are all the basics joysticks pushes. So those are all the basics. But then some games are yeah, here, good luck, go forth, don't die.

Speaker 2:

Night Reign.

Speaker 3:

I have not played Night Reign, don't?

Speaker 2:

We have a whole episode where Marcus refunded the game live while we're recording it.

Speaker 3:

It's all my things to do. I'm listening to an audio book right now. I'll get caught up on the things to do. I'm listening to an audio book right now. I'll get caught up on the other podcast episodes. I'm going to go out two back. So that's what I'm also kind of judging things on now is how well do games work you through the tutorials, learn the mechanics All of them are the basics, same game to game. But how does that integrate into the story? Uh, some games. Hey, you pick this thing up, deliver this. You got a sprint, you got a jump, you got a duck, you got a crawl, whatever it is gets you to learn those mechanics while you're doing the opening sequences of a story, getting to know some of the background, some of the, the world building, then after that, how, how does it just fit with the story overall? So those are the biggies for me.

Speaker 1:

Okay, but when do you quit? What is your like? How long, generally speaking, how long are you going to give a game before you're like, okay, this game's not for me?

Speaker 3:

uh, usually about uh, 20 hours. Oh, which seems like a, which seems like a lot, but I do. I mean, you know how I play games. I go into the opening area. I don't go, oh, there's my quest marker, I'll go to it. I go, oh, my quest marker is over there. I'm going to go left instead and walk around the map. What else do I find where? What are these other things? Um, and then eventually, about you know, five hours later, I'll make my way back around to, oh, here's the, the opening, two quests I'm supposed to do two hours ago sure ridos.

Speaker 2:

You hang out in my chat all the time watching me ruin games. By not doing that. I need you to hold me accountable and say, doc, explore, doc, explore, but that's not what you enjoy, that's what I enjoy, but I ruined my. I ruined my favorite game of 2025 for myself by just being addicted to story. And what? What was it? Marcus, you're supposed to finish the game at 50 hours and I beat it in 30. Yeah, but like I'm complaining like why are all these fights so hard?

Speaker 3:

And it's like cause.

Speaker 2:

You're 20 levels under where you're supposed to be for the final battle.

Speaker 1:

You know, the last time we spoke about that, all that time ago, it made me really think about Final Fantasy VIII on the PlayStation 1. I was so excited and I blazed through that game and I got to I think disc two or disc three I think disc two or disc three and I was so under leveled that like I couldn't even beat anything because I just didn't grind. I was like I'm just doing the story and it got to a point where it was.

Speaker 2:

the game was like no, I also have never finished final fantasy eight because the exact same thing happened to me. I made it to the third disc. I don't remember if that game had four discs.

Speaker 3:

I can't remember the fourth disc is just the final area.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, Someday I'll have to finish that. But I have a feeling that Final Fantasy IX is going to get a remake remake soon. A lot of people are more passionate for 9 than 8 these days well, uh four discs it was four discs.

Speaker 1:

Okay, good memory.

Speaker 2:

No, I googled it no, but I said it oh four discs oh I just remember he's horrible. It's okay, we are ganging up on marcus and I like it. That's my style of life um, also, I see that you sent me a message, marcus. Persona 5 the phantom x is a gotcha game. That's how they plan to make money. What?

Speaker 1:

What's a gotcha game?

Speaker 2:

It's where you use mechanics to get characters to buy packs or crystals to unlock additional characters, weapons or other in-game assets.

Speaker 3:

Fortnite Excuse me.

Speaker 1:

But that's a, you just said a mechanic.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but it's not a game mechanic, it's a shopping mechanic, all right, so think Genshin Impact. Yeah, um honkai star rail never played that I got paid to play it. I gotta play it again this month too. They're gonna sponsor me again that's awesome.

Speaker 1:

If, if you had a 20 hours to start a brand new game today and it could be any game you want, what would it be? And you can't have played it yet.

Speaker 2:

Doritos you go first.

Speaker 3:

Any game I want, man? Okay, well, I'm going to have to look at my Steam library. All right, I can go first. Go ahead, claire 33. On what, man? Okay, well, I'm gonna have to look at my steam library because I know they're all right, I can go first I go claire 33 oh, that's easy.

Speaker 2:

That's such a good game. All right, I have an answer now all right, what's your answer?

Speaker 2:

world of warcraft. Wow, exactly, yes, wow, all right. Wow, and why? Because I've never put I. I've played it for about 90 minutes. Um, it was one of the three mmos I tried out when I was thinking what am I going to play after swotor? Final fantasy 14 is the one I chose. But I think, just like with Fortnite and me being part of the conversation about what it means to play video games the way that I am, I think if I had my own hands-on experiences with World of Warcraft, that would only make my voice more compelling. So there's an, there's a thing outside of the game that I want that I believe those 20 hours could help me with. But I could have said Fortnite also. I've only done three matches in Fortnite ever and if I sat down and played that game for 20 hours, I think that my logic and reasoning about what that game is for people would become more informed and increasingly persuasive.

Speaker 1:

I don't think you would need 20 hours to get the gist of the game.

Speaker 2:

Oh for Fortnite, or WoW, fortnite Okay.

Speaker 1:

You could play that. That's a simple game. Right, I would love to play WoW with you. I'm pretty sure I'm logging in right now to see or I'm going to update it to see if I want to know if we play WoW right. I'm pretty sure the first 20 levels are free.

Speaker 3:

They still are. I had an account for a while let it lapse and I went back and looked at it earlier this year probably holidays January, february, somewhere in there and still the first 20 levels are free.

Speaker 1:

Because, Doc, we could play that after the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Even if it's for a half an hour, it probably takes what two hours to download.

Speaker 1:

I don't have it on my pc, oh I'm not saying right now oh, I'm updating it now. Why don't you download it? And we'll start out together and we'll make a little story.

Speaker 2:

I'm not downloading a game while I'm doing the podcast. That sounds like a terrible idea with our history of using this app.

Speaker 1:

You are so literal Like dude. All I'm saying is download the game Like it doesn't have to be this moment like today.

Speaker 1:

All right, and Marcus, we can play final fantasy 14 after the podcast too yeah, but it's something that you said you want to play and if I play it I'll do it too, and we'll do it together and I'll only play it on podcast day and it'll just be a little fun experiment to see what it's like. I think I've I don't know how, I don't know how many hours, just form a trio and find something we can play together after the podcast fortnight. Well, fortnight is a fun three-person game okay I'm not wrong take your word for it.

Speaker 2:

I didn't know you could group up and yeah, so you can do. Well, fortnite is a fun three-person game.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I'm not wrong, I'll take your word for it. I didn't know you could group up. Yeah, so you can do singles, duos, or it's triples.

Speaker 2:

Oh, so like we'd actually be a team.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, a team of three.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's neat, so all right. So World of Warcraft is coming, fortnite is coming. Doc is going to go back to persona 5 royale. He's going to go back to claire obscure. He's going to play final fantasy 7, rebirth and remake seven more times, and then maybe he still won't play mass effect. Continue the journey. Ouch won't play Mass Effect. Continue the journey.

Speaker 2:

Out.

People on this episode

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Daniel Kaufmann

Host
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Doritos

Co-host
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MarcusB814

Co-host