When Unlocking a Roster Becomes A Life Philosophy

A blizzard on the radar, a snowblower on life support, and a birthday synced to the Royal Rumble—sometimes life scripts its own main event. We kick things off with the storm chatter and slide into family rituals: homemade banners, dish-duty bets, and a living room that morphs into an arena. From there, we dig into the heart of wrestling fandom—nostalgia, surprise returns, and the art of long-term booking. We trade predictions for both Rumbles, debate whether WWE can resist repeating its favorite arcs, and celebrate the enduring appeal of Drew McIntyre as a symbol of grit and second chances.

Then the controller lights up. WWE 2K25 becomes our lens on game design: when unlock systems feel empowering, when monetization crosses a line, and why forcing players into disliked modes breaks the flow. We explore the grind psychology that makes a five-star match or a fresh roster slot feel like a trophy, and we tackle the big question: is time spent the problem, or is it about life context and responsibilities? That thread leads us into real life—turning an all-nighter into a final boss, chunking work into quest steps, and using game loops to push major projects over the finish line.

We round things out with comfort zones and skill building: trying an indie ARPG that revives 16-bit charm, first steps in Hytale, teaching kids the keyboard, and the educational power of scaffolding. Along the way we swap odd keybinds, celebrate MMO mice, and reflect on the gap between cinematic trailers and actual gameplay. If you love pro wrestling, video games, or the way both teach perseverance, this one’s for you.

Enjoyed the show? Follow, share with a friend who loves the Rumble, and leave a quick review so more fans can find us. Your picks for the winners this year—who you got?

Chapters

• 0:01 Storm Hype And Broken Snowblower
• 1:07 Birthday Royal Rumble Traditions
• 2:46 Family Bets And Rumble Picks
• 5:34 Women’s Rumble Scenarios And Storylines
• 8:18 Men’s Title Paths And Long-Term Booking
• 9:21 Drew McIntyre, Myth, And Life Lessons
• 12:11 WWE 2K25 Monetization And Unlocks
• 15:03 Grinding, Modes, And Player Motivation
• 18:03 All-Nighters And Gamified Workflows
• 21:20 Shop Stories And The Board Stretcher
• 23:05 Finding Fun Outside Comfort Zones
• 25:20 Hytale, Keyboard Learning, And Kids
• 28:08 Complexity, Scaffolding, And Controls
• 31:30 MMO Mice, Keybinds, And Play Styles
• 34:25 First MMOs And Trailer Expectations

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Snowpocalypse is coming. I thought it was Ice Mageddon. Ice Mageddon is down north of you. Snow Maget like s the snow apocalypse happens for us. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 0:17

Smacking my arm uncovered. 75 degree weather. Just got done walking outside just in a t-shirt. You're wearing your USA winter cap, Marcus. The beanie. There you go. I would know that because they're an unnecessary item to equip where I'm from.

SPEAKER_01: 0:41

Yeah, no, I get it. No, but so funny is when whenever we have storms, like all like the meteorologists like freak out and they get all the people tweaked out, but this time I actually believe them because like I I don't actually watch like the local weather. The only time I watch the local weather in the morning is just to find out if my kids' school's canceled. You know what I mean? Yep. But I watch a couple guys, there's this guy on YouTube named Ryan Hall Yall. He's a weather guy. He's actually pretty awesome. He's in Kentucky, and he does like thorough breakdowns. So there's a couple different models from our area that the snow is coming on Sunday midday. And one model is showing like 12 to 18 inches of snow. The other one is 18 to 36 inches, and then there's everything in between. No matter what, it's a shitty situation. It's gonna be a lot of snow. And I, in the worst case, the worst part about all of it is my snowblower broke man at the beginning of the season, and I've been limping through, but it's completely toast now. So I went out and bought a new snowblower. So was it a snowblower or a toaster? Snowblower. The snowblower I had was a 1983 snapper, which the thing was like a rock forever. Like you couldn't kill this thing. It's done. And I can't older than me. Yeah. I was but as old as me. It's 42 years old, almost 43. Actually, next oh no, it won't be my birthday. Next what Thursday. My birthday's next Saturday. Royal Rumble Day, baby. Whoa.

SPEAKER_02: 2:21

So who is the perfect birthday present for you to win the men's Royal Rumble?

SPEAKER_01: 2:27

Let me pull out my my bet, my family bet sheet. We have dishes on it. Our bet. Wow. Dishes. Oh yeah. My birthday dishes. So if I lose, I might have to do dishes on my own birthday. Hold on.

SPEAKER_02: 2:40

You have no idea how amazing that gambling mention is a segue to what I'm going to talk about today.

SPEAKER_01: 2:46

That's great. That's why I did it. And it it's my family thing. Like we all like are betting on it, and it's fun because it's not monetary, right?

SPEAKER_02: 2:53

It's oh, you don't gotta justify this. Does sound fun and healthy and exciting and gets to do the dishes. Like, I don't see a problem with that.

SPEAKER_01: 3:02

My pick to win the Royal Rumble for the men is Bron Breaker. The women is Tiffy. My son Rhino, his Tiffy time.

SPEAKER_02: 3:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 3:11

His men pick is Braun Breaker and his woman is Rhea Ripley. Julia, my daughter thinks Roman Reigns is gonna win and Tiffy is gonna win. And then my wife thinks LA Knight is gonna win with Rhea Ripley getting the Yeah. Yeah. But so when I was a kid, the when I was a kid, the Royal Rumble was always around my birthday. And my mom would say, What do you want for your birthday? I would just say the Royal Rumble, because back then you had to buy the pay-per-view and it was 50 bucks, a lot of money back in the day. So I wouldn't get a birthday present. I wouldn't get any gift. That would be my gift. And I would get to stay up until almost 11 o'clock at night, Royal Rumble night, because it was on Sundays back in the day, and that was my birthday present as a kid.

SPEAKER_02: 3:59

I know the people listening to the podcast can't see what my face did while you were telling that story, Marcus. But you can and Doritos can. Sure, tell me. You gave me such a huge nostalgia bump with that story because you told us something very similar about last year's Royal Rumble because our show with you and me doing this had just started, and it it reminded me of all the things really that we talked about the whole year and how we've been doing this for a year now. That's just some really special stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 4:48

Yeah, man. So I'm super excited, and it actually falls on my birthday this year, which is pretty good.

SPEAKER_02: 4:52

It's every seven years, right? Like, because it's the same weekend.

SPEAKER_01: 4:56

Yeah, I'm not sure. Probably, right? Probably.

SPEAKER_02: 4:59

But either and then Leap Year gets in there and screws that up a little bit. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01: 5:03

And then I skip it's yeah, whatever. But the nice part for me is it actually falls on my birthday. So like I'm getting to watch it, and the kids are super excited. Everybody's into it. Like the in our family, every birthday has a theme. This year'll last year it was oh, last year it was a Royal Rumble, but this one it'll be the big one. They'll have the kids will make banners and posters, and oh, the house will be all decorated for the Royal Rumble, which is sweet. That was fun. Ah, dude, it's great.

SPEAKER_02: 5:33

I'm very much uh now. I'm thinking about my predictions, and Tiffany Stratton is such an interesting prediction because she's not showing up right now. So it'll be like a return victory if that happens. I remember last year, Roxanne Perez was amazing in the Royal Rumble, and they gave it to Charlotte Flair, storyline-wise. Like she had the big return, and she has if one punch man was a woman wrestler, it's basically Charlotte Flair. Like she just wins everything, whether it makes sense or not. So I I don't think Roxanne Perez is in a place to win it this year with her character. I wish I could say that Liv Morgan is gonna win the Royal Rumble. You think so?

SPEAKER_01: 6:24

It's either her, it's so I'm it's really up to three. I think it's either Bianca Belair comes back, wins it. Comes back, yep. Tiffy, because she comes back and wins it. And Tiffy's my second favorite female wrestler. And then third is Liv Morgan is a good choice because she's got something to prove. You know what I mean? And I think Raquel Rodriguez is gonna win the belt from Stephanie Mackerr and it's gonna create tension between Liv and her, and that's gonna be WrestleMania.

SPEAKER_02: 6:54

That's an interesting prediction, Marcus, because if 90s WWF history, which I know very little because I wasn't actually allowed to watch at this period of time because of my age and how my parents viewed television. But going back into the history and learning it as an adult, there is a men's duo that reminds me of Liv Morgan and Raquel Rodriguez very much. And that duo is Diesel and Shawn Michaels. They just have a very similar vibe, especially once Raquel started wearing the sunglasses inside the bandana. It just really reminded me the height differential. She's the tall muscle, and she's the short person bouncing around the ring doing athletic stuff. They're both amazing, which that's also very important if you're impersonating Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels. They ended up facing each other over the big muscle winning the belt before the small person. WWE cannot help themselves in terms of repeating storylines, but then again, neither can the United States. Sure. So that it feels new. I like that. As far as the men, I want Sami Zayn to win the Royal Rumble. Okay, okay. Can I I'm gonna bring I I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_01: 8:28

Don't do it. So Sami Zayn is the most over guy in Saudi Arabia, right? So this is this is my opinion. I think Sami's gonna win the fatal four-way, he's gonna wrestle Drew McIntyre at the Royal Rumble for the belt. Okay. Okay. Next year, Sami Zayn wins the Royal Rumble, wrestles for the belt in Saudi Arabia. For WrestleMania. At WrestleMania in Saudi Arabia.

SPEAKER_02: 8:57

It does make sense. Cody Rhodes lost when he was the most over person in WWE and then had a whole year of trying to get back to that point, and then he won it. So again, history repeating itself. They can't help themselves. Also, just I know we're not talking about video games yet, but 2K26 for WWE is starting to get superstar announcements. And I had not play very much 2K25, mostly because it was so thirsty to get more money after I purchased the biggest version, and it still was like, give me more money, give me more money, and that turns me off to games and other things got in my life. Honestly, Expedition 33 came out of nowhere and took over all the things I was doing with video games for about six months. What's that so 2K to 2K25? Ha, what's that? I do want to just one of my favorite things about wrestling is the and new. So I just want to give some claps, throw some flowers at Drew McIntyre. Drew McIntyre. Yeah, so he won the title at the COVID WrestleMania, and that is when me and my son started watching wrestling together, and that became our bonding activity. So no matter what his character is doing, good guy, bad guy, social media heel, whatever it is, there's this part of us that wants to see him be successful because there's that nostalgia kick of like our WWE has successful Drew McIntyre in it. And so we got that. The story is so compelling. I had to explain to someone in a mental health setting this week why I like WWE, and I just was like, it's good versus evil, it's mythological storytelling with human superheroes. There's life lessons, there's learning to keep going even when things are tough, and you fail, you keep going until you succeed, you never give up. The catchphrases. Yeah, John Cena had the towel that always said, either you can't see me or never give up or whatever. I just think that it's such a solid place to get life lessons in the world today. Sometimes the content pushes outside your age range when you're little, but more or less it is a great place to see the drama of the battle between good guys and bad guys, and learn what that means in a way that you can get excited by, buy the action figures, play the video games, be a part of it, go into the audience and see it, and it's safe for you to watch. Unlike there's there's less of a content warning learning lessons that way than watching Saving Private Ryan to learn about World War II. Like I had to get a parental slip to watch that in like fifth grade way back in the day. Sorry, that wasn't my intention. Yeah, so I am younger than Marcus's dead leaf blowers or snow blowing.

SPEAKER_01: 12:11

I'm gonna cycle back to something you said. So this year I purchased the base game of 2K25. Base game. Best choice. Yes. Then what I did was I purchased the season pass for I think it was 30 bucks or 50 bucks. So it took me to the$110, but that gave me all of the packs for that come out through the year. So I didn't have to buy them, right? They just come and they're mine. But what it didn't do was it didn't unlock all of the extra characters that you have to play the game and do matches and you earn points, and every thousand points you get, you can unlock a calendar, a character, and every hundred and fifty points, you can unlock a different title belt or venue. And it's become like the mission of my son and mine to unlock those. But if you buy the bloodline, the highest tier, everything is unlocked already.

SPEAKER_02: 13:20

There's no reason to play.

SPEAKER_01: 13:22

So that's a different conversation. I'm gonna get to that in a second. But my point is this I'm glad you said that because I enjoy playing the game and getting a four or five star match. Because if you get a four and a half or five star, you're getting like eight hundred of these dollars to be able to unlock a character. So it incentivizes you to it incentivizes you to be better, right? And like work at it to get it. And it's something that I'm doing with my son because he he got 2K25 for the Switch 2, because now they have it for the Switch 2. And we're going through and re-unlocking characters on that because he's like, because I'm not gonna buy anything with it, and he's unlocking different characters than he unlocked with the PlayStation version because he doesn't have William Regal and he wants to play with William Regal or Wade Barrett. He doesn't have Wade Barrett on the PlayStation, and it's an interesting choice mechanic because you have all these characters you want to unlock, but you can only do it one at a time because you actually have to play the game. The thing I don't like about 2K, and it's not about money, is that it forces you to play versions of the game that you don't want to play in order to unlock certain characters. That's what I don't like. Like I feel can you say that a different way? I don't get what you mean. So there's versions of the game. Yeah, so there's different modes in the game. Okay. There's my faction, my rise, career, the island, all of that. And certain characters can't be unlocked unless you play those modes. I see. Where I have zero interest in playing any of those modes. It's I want to go on, earn these coins by doing matches, and my son and I pick a character to unlock. My point is, I wish all the characters were on that one screen, and that you have to work to unlock them all.

SPEAKER_02: 15:41

Interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:43

So then so 2K26, there's a lot of rumors it's coming out. It usually comes out in March. So I'm guessing they're gonna announce it at the Royal Rumble. My big we have another bet in my house who's gonna be on the cover. Julia thinks it's a girl, and she obviously thinks it's Tiffy, because Tiffy's her favorite, and I think it's gonna be CM Punk. So we have a little bet in my house for that. But I wanted to ask you guys does a game turn you off when you purchase a game and you have to play the game to unlock characters? I don't did I say that right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:28

Yeah, I want to hear Doritos' opinion about this first because just because.

SPEAKER_00: 16:35

What do you think, Doritos? To a degree, if there's a reasonable if it's excessive, okay, you you need this many elite tier tokens to unlock. It's one thing, but if it's okay, you do a normal if you can unlock things, say, within a week or two of just normal gameplay, okay, that's not bad. It's a character grind. It's there are many mobile games like that. Play this to unlock this next level tier character, next character. It's not bad, but it can get a little frustrating mainly because okay, I want to do that thing, but I need this character, I gotta unlock that. But I need character A to be at a certain level, character B to be at a certain level to be able to unlock even the chance to get character C, and it just the cat cascades, it's like it's a grind, that's what those type of games are intended to do. It's not the type of game I necessarily enjoy playing. I do play a couple of those, and I grind slow, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01: 17:46

Yeah, I agree with you, Doritos. For me, I don't mind having to play the game to unlock a character, but I hate when a game forces you to do a certain mode in order to unlock a character. But just like I you guys are gonna think of a game that does this. I hate a game where I sign in, I'm starting a new story, and they give you four characters to pick from. I pick whatever one is a melee character, and I go in, and then after three or four levels, you just unlocked the fifth character. But he's level one. I don't really want to play with this character because I've already invested my time into this character. But when you finally get to the end of the game, you're gonna unlock Susan, who is the super mage, who has the nuclear chroma mage attack. But you have to level her to 50 in order to get that, but you're already at the end of the game, and I don't really want to play the game again.

SPEAKER_00: 18:52

Great choice of names. All I can think of now of is monsters versus aliens.

unknown: 18:56

Ha!

SPEAKER_02: 18:59

I think you made me think of Mario Kart games. Like, I didn't really play the Switch 2 one, but I played a lot of Mario Kart 8 and 8 Deluxe, and in order to unlock certain carts or tires or sales kites or whatever they were called, you have to do time trials. Now I beat the ghost on every time trial in that game. And so that means I got better at every course than I actually wanted to be, because for whatever reason I was motivated to get pink gold this character and metal this character and metal wheels and gold wheels, and I just wanted to have every customizable thing for character select unlocked so I can build whatever cart I want that's in the game. I would not have done time trials without that incentive. And sometimes I would get stuck on a course and do it for a few hours and not really want to, but feel like I needed to complete this. And I don't know if that's good for my mental health, but it is something that I succeeded at eventually, and that's what a lot of video games have offered me as the challenge over the years, is I didn't necessarily want to do the thing that I did ultimately accomplish, but now it's a story I can tell, and that's exciting. And I think there's a greater parallel to life in there that just because something is tough and maybe you didn't enjoy it in the moment, but it is an example of your triumph, it is a story you can tell, and so you can become more proud or happy about that after the fact than you ever were during the struggle. So looking on it now and trying to be wise and thoughtful about it, I don't think what I did with Mario Kart was bad. I remember it being very frustrating and not what I wanted to do in the moment, but it is something that I achieved. It's part of my gamer story and my history with Mario Kart now. Elden Ring's a great example of this too, by the way, just to throw that in there. That I don't know that everything I've accomplished in Lands Between. The Lands Between, thank you. I don't know that I wanted to do every single thing that I did there, but I did it. And that's part of my history as a gamer now. And I don't know that every assignment I did in grad school or every little thing I've done for Kinebridge or my university are things that I wanted to do, but they're things that I do and consistently, and it's evidence that I'm pretty awesome at what I do. So I think that there's a lot of that in there. The thing is, this is a game, and if you're playing it with the idea that the entire experience should be designed to be fun, maybe that's not true. Because I think game devs deliberately make frustrating things to see if the people that are motivated to do them will have something to be proud of on the other end. I agree.

SPEAKER_01: 22:11

But for me, I'm not. See, like it what you were saying, so the way I look at what you said is two-sided. You mentioned cosmetics, earning cosmetics, right? I wanted tires, carts, kites, and I had to do these time trials to unlock all these. That is fine to me because that's an achievable goal. Hey man, I really want these five-star Chrome rims for my cart because when I race against somebody, they're gonna know I beat this the hardest time trial there is. Where what I'm talking about is content being locked like a character behind a game mode that you are being forced to play in order to unlock that character. I guess it's the same thing, but I don't know. It's for me, it's a playable character versus a cosmetic.

SPEAKER_00: 23:19

Okay, I think Mario card, it's not necessarily cosmetics because there's stats and their actual stats attached to the chassis, the tires, the gliders, all that yeah. There's optimum stat bills between which character, which vehicle, which chassis, which tires, which glider. Because I mean, doc you're saying that's what you did. Thing is, does age fall into this? Because my son has also done the same thing, and he's what he'll be 13 in May. So he has done that. It's very crazy. I'm feeling really old, but it's puts it in a slightly different light for me because I see my son playing Mario Kart and doing all those things and getting those achievements and unlocking all that stuff. So part of it is where does age fit in that timeline of hey, I'm an adult or I'm a student, or this point in my life, this is a significant achievement, versus I'm a child or I'm an adolescent or a young adult, and it being a different point mentally.

SPEAKER_02: 24:33

That's a really good point. I was just talking to a supervision group yesterday. I got asked again the question of how much time is an addiction to video games, and a lot of people that aren't gamers ask that question, and I always answer it the same way, which is it is relative to your life situation and what you are responsible for in your life. And I always put myself on the hot seat there and I say, if I decide to play seven hours of a video game, whether it's Fortnite or Final Fantasy XIV or whatever, if I decide I'm gonna play seven hours of that today, I will let people down across all the areas of my life. But if a high school student comes home from school and decides they want to play seven hours of the exact same games I just listed, it doesn't matter what game, then they will let literally nobody down at all.

SPEAKER_01: 25:37

Yeah, it's my son.

SPEAKER_02: 25:38

And yeah, we can decide that maybe the sweet spot for them to still have a balanced lifestyle is more like three hours after school or two. And so then that's a different question. But as far as are they addicted, do they need a psychiatric diagnosis and go to residential treatment for this problem? No, I don't think so. I think one of the cool things about video games is the way they get you to accomplish big things. I oh, we are set up so nice. Wait for what's gonna happen here. The way it gets you to accomplish big things is by giving you hundreds of sequential small goals linked together that keep you going. So, in order to get a thousand points in your wrestling to unlock a character, for example, you do 10, four, or five star matches, and then you get that feeling after each match that you're getting closer and closer, and then boom, in under an hour, you get a new character. And if you want to unlock the entire roster, if you play for five hours today, you might unlock five or six new characters. You look at that roster, it's wow, I got this person I would, this person I would, this person I would. And then before you know it, you're working on the scrubs that you don't want, but you're so close to that 100% goal of unlocking the entire player list, and you're doing things you didn't necessarily want, but it's the completion mentality that it's training you to have, too. And this is why I'm in a situation in my job tonight where I'm gonna have to pull an all-nighter. And I've pulled all-nighters before for big goals in my life before, and those goals are dissertation and The Gamer's Journey. What's the set? It's a book that I wrote. Now, I'm gonna sidestep.

SPEAKER_01: 27:34

Did you win an award for that book?

SPEAKER_02: 27:36

I did win an award for that. It's right behind my head, right there. Oh, it's behind my expression and Sora. Yeah. I know I should just put it right here in front of the webcam during the show.

SPEAKER_01: 27:47

But he should have a shelf that he buys a separate webcam that shows the book and the award at all times on all of his streams.

SPEAKER_02: 27:55

Yeah, maybe once I like rearrange my office. I'm to be honest, I get a lot.

SPEAKER_01: 28:01

When you take a break, it just goes to the shelf.

SPEAKER_02: 28:05

When I show up on my webcam with therapy teams that don't know me, and I have the wave lights behind and the dark and the neon blue going, and they see the statue squad behind me, they are like, your background's amazing. But when I see it, because I'm sitting in front of it all day, I feel like it's so chaotic. But it does have the board games, it has the manga and the graphic novels, it has the characters still in the box, it still has it has the statues. Like, I'm happy with it, but I wish it was more organized. Anyway, back I got sidetracked. The only time that I've done all nighters is when those big goals are at the point where I have this realization, it's the same realization every time, and that realization is this could be over if I choose not to sleep. I'm so close to the end that the amount of time I need to finish it is less than the amount of time between now and waking up tomorrow. And the alternative is keep working on it one or two hours at a time when I'm supposed to be awake, and maybe I finish it by Tuesday, this being a Thursday. But it is so motivating to realize I'm seven hours away from this being done, and just using the dark side and choking the life out of the problem and showing that I own it, and I decide whether that problem stays in my life or not. And yes, I did squeeze a Vader force choke very violently in front of the webcam for everyone who can't see. I did this with my dissertation, and I remember very clearly like it was 7.30 p.m. I got home from work and I realized I could finish the final chapter of this and send it to my chair and be at the point where I'm waiting to get cleared to defend this. And I did. I finished it at 3.30 in the morning, and I just made a whole pot of coffee, kept drinking it, listened to the journey soundtrack, the game Journey by Austin Wintry, and that game company, and just listened to it on loop until I was done. And I'm gonna have to do that tonight for the gambling training, the game gamified gambling training that goes live in uh about 10 days. I'm on the hook for a lot of stuff to deliver, and so I got seven hours of stuff to do after this podcast, and I'm just gonna do it before I sleep. But that the mentality of why I'm in that situation is because video games will motivate me to do little bits of play here and there and eventually get there. But work sometimes feels like the goal is so far away that it's hard to motivate to even take the next step. And so I'm telling myself that this has to be like a game for me, and there's not very many steps left, so let's just link them together and make it seem like I care about them as much as gearing up my character in an MMO, unlocking the best weapon in my favorite Resident Evil, unlocking all the wrestlers in my WWE game. I am going to have to string together these deliverables and create that dopamine rush for myself. Because if I don't, there's actual consequences in a couple days. So I'm deploying a strategy that very much comes from the unlocking quest that we've all done in video games.

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

Pulling an all-nighter, I can't say anything. It was never all night, but I remember there were times where I had to finish building something for the next day. I would come home and eat dinner, and then I would drive back to my shop and not get home from the shop until four in the morning. Yep. You remember those days because we spent hours on the phone though at that during those times. I just be greening stuff, you just be sawing stuff. What?

SPEAKER_00: 32:10

You were looking for the board stretcher.

SPEAKER_01: 32:12

Oh my god. Funny story about Nick, Mr. MIA. When he is that for Miami? When when Nick was working for me in the summer, because he was in college and like over the summer, he was looking for a job, and I said, Oh, you can come work for me. And he just started, didn't know nothing. I was like, Hey, go in the back of the van. It's it's in a black box, it's about this big, this tall. You'll know it's the board stretcher. Can you go? He was gone 10 minutes and he came back so mad, and he's like, Dude, I did not want to come back here and tell you I couldn't find the board stretcher. And the electricians were standing there, they were dying. And he goes, Wait a minute. It doesn't exist. Nope. I didn't need anything. Go back to work. He was so mad. He was so mad he fell for the sick. It's okay. Yeah. It's a the board stretcher, it's like the rite of passage for a carpenter. Just, sir, there's something in counseling that like you've taught that is like rite of passage. That's a little bit of hazing, but it's not really.

SPEAKER_02: 33:22

We have a code of ethics. We're not supposed to haze people, it's it's not it's yeah. See, like Mr. Mr.

SPEAKER_01: 33:29

Yeah, like he I guarantee Doc but pulls the same joke with every single class he gets, but it's something to do with like counseling and stuff like that. He definitely pulls a punch, it's just a different way. But to cycle back to the games, setting goals for a game for me is one thing. I am beating Elden Ring. I did it. Did I 100% it? Fuck no. Did I follow Sweet Johnny Cage's path? Nope. I went the places I wanted to, beat the bosses I needed to, and got out of the game.

unknown: 34:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 34:09

Just like I play WWE with my son to play it and have fun. But I What you play games to have fun? No, no, well, with him. That's we play three games together. Minecraft.

SPEAKER_02: 34:24

I love how you just explained that, like, we're embarrassed to have fun playing games. No.

SPEAKER_01: 34:30

Anyway, I just anywho, you Rhino play games. Yeah, we play three three games, and that's what we do, and it's a blast doing it. And I he'll come home from school, he'll do his homework, and he'll game, and he'll be talking to one of his buddies and playing Minecraft They Get in a World and they build it together, and it's hilarious to listen to, or we play, or he plays WWE, but he can play for four hours with no worries at all because he has zero responsibilities, like zero.

SPEAKER_02: 35:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:03

To me, I was I started playing a game that is out of my comfort zone and absolutely loving it. And I've played 2.6 hours this week, and like I feel more fulfilled than I've felt in a long time because I've gotten to play almost three hours in a week.

SPEAKER_02: 35:21

That's neat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:26

But what game was it? It's remember last week, Phil Nova Fantasy? Yeah. I love it. So I want you it's trials of mana, ARPG, set with the link to the past graphics, puzzles, and you're fighting off monsters, you're you're actually crafting things, you're gaining loot. I'm having so much fun with it. It's great. Awesome. Yeah, man. And it's completely taken me out of my comfort zone in playing the game. In what way? Because usually if I'm like I'll play a really I'm gonna say a serious game where like I get into it, like a Claire, like Trials of Mana, Elden Ring, Destiny, Swow Tor, and I never just pick up one of these indie games and go, I'm gonna give this game a try. And actually play it. You know what I mean? And like I said, and I don't want to repeat myself. I've got a I've got a review copy of the game from the company, sale like game, the publishers, another Rindy. Oh, another Indy. Oh my god. Anyway, I'm such an idiot. I butchered that. Edit that out. Anyway, they were nice enough to give me a key, and I'm going in. I'm in, and I'm absolutely loving this. I was playing it before we started the podcast, and Doritos was watching me. But Doritos never played Zelda Link to the Past, so he doesn't understand the graphics of it. I do understand the graphics. I played the original Ultima. I get it. Yeah. But it's it's just taken me out of my comfort zone, and I'm realizing that I can play a game and have a lot of fun and not feel. I don't want to say the word shame because that's not the word, but giving a game like this is out of my comfort zone and it makes me and I'm loving it. I'm not thinking about playing Claire, I'm not thinking about playing anything else. I just want to play this game. Now, will I do it?

SPEAKER_00: 37:49

Shame or embarrassment. Huh? Is it shame or embarrassment? Because that that's again. I don't think it's a social construct, though. If you're having fun playing the game, there's nothing to be ashamed of playing even a 2D side scroll or 8-bit where you've got grown people who've been playing what Minecraft for years. 8-bit cubes. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 38:15

There's nothing to be ashamed of. So that's the other game that just came out. I'm calling it Minecraft 2. So the Hightail. Yeah. So I got it. The game is awesome. It's everything that Minecraft it was, and they've just cleaned it and made it better. There, it's in early access, so there's still some bugs. Like Ryan and I have found some bugs. The only downside right now is you can't use a controller. They haven't. So you're using keyboard and mouse, which is fine for me. But I'm teaching Rhino how to use a keyboard and mouse. And let me tell you, for a video game, like he you want to see a kid get frustrated that he can't do the thing he wants to do. I feel bad for him because I'm trying, like, I can't teach it. He'll ask me, Dad, how do I pull up my inventory? You have to hit tab. Where's tab? Right there. Okay. Now he knows it, but then he forgets. He's like and he's pushing all the keys and he can't find it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_00: 39:18

Yeah, because that's the same thing that happened with my son when we got him his first, or he would even want to play games on my computer. He looked at the keyboard like, where's this? Where's that? And it's gonna be a part of life that our kids are gonna have to just deal with, which is the whole keyboarding, the whole interaction with digital technology. Now the keyboard may be virtual, it may be a light keyboard instead of actual a mechanical keyboard or something physical, but it's still gonna be a QWIDY setup. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 39:51

Yeah. I think that's part of just getting assimilated into a new system. Is I know for me, my first two consoles were the Nintendo and then the Super Nintendo, so I was used to very simple setup because you're just playing a very you know, controller, that's not a hard controller to learn, either of them. And then I started playing games on my computer, and a lot of them were just point-and-click games at the time. Video games now are so complex, honestly. Just the number of buttons, the number of functions that are at your disposal early in video games, and one of the things that I don't enjoy doing is level advancing a character in an RPG. Because when you do that, you jump from level one and you're instantly level 70, 80, 90, 100, depending on how long the game is and how many expansions. And they give you all the moves on your bar in a random gobbledygook that makes no logical sense. It's just probably whatever order you unlock the moves, and they get they just get vomited onto your bar. You don't know what any of them do. And it takes a long time to learn a flow for a character that just instantly is at master level. So think about all the things you learn in school from pre-K to kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth grade, then you do middle school, then you do high school, and then you get to do college. When you level advance an MMO character or a role-playing game character to max level, it's like you skip elementary, middle, and high school and you're just in college. Yep. And the chat the challenges are in college and the skills you're supposed to know are college level. That's not a recipe for success in real life. And I find it very frustrating in video games too. I would much rather be slow about it and learn the first three moves that I need and have an hour of playing the game where I just have those three moves and then you get a new one. It's what does this do? And you get 10 to 20 minutes just to experiment with that move and be like, oh, this is when I would use that. And then you put it on a bar in a place that makes sense to you in relation to the other moves you have already. And you just build a relationship with your abilities. This is called scaffolding in education, by the way. It's it's a it's how you layer things on top of the previous thing. I'm sure in building there is a use of the word scaffolding as well that is a very similar premise. It's how you make sure tall structures don't fall over on the lower parts of themselves. And I think that's really important to think about when you're a new kid and you're playing complicated games and you're switching from controller to keyboard to mouse, and you don't have all that muscle memory to rely on. So you gotta build it from the very beginning.

SPEAKER_01: 42:57

I re I remember learning how to play on the computer because I always played on a console, and it took me about a month to really like hone in and understand the WASD and the keyboard move, and and then learning how to put the left click and right click down to walk and hitting the middle mouse button to walk backwards. That revolutionized the way I play video games. But it literally took me a month to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02: 43:29

You actually are an amazing example of this, and I do not mean this to sound at all shady, but I remember when you were new to tanking in Death Star Troopers, yeah, you had just switched from being a marauder, but your leadership was needed at that role. And then after that, that was a rough transition to be honest. But the real transition is when you decided to use WASD as cooldowns instead of moving. Moving your character.

SPEAKER_01: 44:02

But I got better at the game.

SPEAKER_02: 44:05

That's my point, actually. Is that you were able to look at the situation and you took advantage of the way your brain works, which honestly is very unique compared to everyone else I've ever talked to. And so you play MMORPGs in a way that is different than anyone I've ever talked to in terms of what the keyboard and mouse are for you.

SPEAKER_01: 44:33

There's somebody else I know that plays Swotor with just the keyboard, no mouse.

SPEAKER_02: 44:46

I don't understand how you would even do that.

SPEAKER_01: 44:49

Arrow keys? WASDI. Yeah, the arrow keys in WASD.

SPEAKER_00: 44:54

You're very proficient with the where the function or or sorry, where the shift key and the control key are. So they're literally using MMO.

SPEAKER_02: 45:03

They're using the numbers above QWERTY to do their moves. So for everyone who can't see the video, I just held up my MMO mouse and I have one through 12 buttons for my right thumb on my mouse. Cool, cool fact about me, I actually grade my papers using those numbers too. I don't actually ever type what score my student got on a thing using the numbers on my keyboard. I'm actually hitting them like abilities in an MMO. So just for a tally, the three of us on this podcast, there are two amazing gamers that use MMO mouses. Three. Three, all three of us do. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 45:50

All right. I keybind everything to my MMO mouse. The equal button on my MMO mouse is button 12, obviously. That's my AoE. That's my AoE. So anytime I have an AoE move, my AOE, what is it called? Depends on what class you are. The AoE move.

SPEAKER_02: 46:10

He's working class.

SPEAKER_01: 46:12

No, the when you get the attention of the boss.

SPEAKER_02: 46:16

Yo, your taunt.

SPEAKER_01: 46:18

Yeah, your taunt. My AoE taunt, every AoE anything is always the equal key. And then the my regular taunt is the 10 key, whatever that is. So that would be zero. Yeah, that's my taunt. And the middle button usually is a dash or some kind of like move button because in case I push it on accident because I have a big thumb, it doesn't mess it up. But I asked, believe it or not, I asked my friend Corey. I play hockey with him, but I play we hang out. I think his name's Corey Cupcakes or something like that in Discord. But anyway, I asked him I can tell you what his name is in the Discord. Yeah, Corey Cupcakes. So, anyways, I actually asked him, huh? He's doing Guild Wars 2. Yeah. I actually asked him to come on the show tonight because I think it's fascinating at 36 years old, never played an MMO, and it's completely hooked on Guild Wars 2. And I want to talk to him, and I want you guys to talk to him because we're all MMO gamers, but getting into an MMO at 36 years old, kind of like I did with Smootor, and loving every minute of it, and talk to him about all that stuff. But he chickened out. He was like, Oh, I got a lot going on with work. I don't know what a good guest I'll be. I'm like, dude, I talk to you all the time, you'd be fine. But he was stout. But we'll get him on the show to talk about it. I think that's a great story.

SPEAKER_00: 47:53

Swotor came out how many years ago? Yeah, it came out in 2011. 15 years. Okay, so yeah, I was in my mid-30s. This is my first MMO.

SPEAKER_02: 48:06

Swotor was my first MMO also, and I really only have two because Final Fantasy XIV. But I published research on both, so I'm happy with my legacy.

SPEAKER_01: 48:24

The thing is, is getting somebody to tell us what made them decide to play an MMO. What draws you into it? For me, Swotor, it was Star Wars. And the cinematic trailers were amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 48:49

I still see those trailers pop up on Instagram every single day. Because they literally are some of the coolest Star Wars videos that you can possibly see.

SPEAKER_01: 49:02

And I bought the Collector's Edition. I was I built a computer just to play the game, only to turn it on and being so disappointed at the way the game looked, I just went back to Call of Duty for years. I loaded it, I was on the Jedi Covenant server to start, and it was I just was like, and I played it, I'll never forget it. I picked uh Commando as my first character, looked just like me, and I was searching every part of the map thinking it was an RPG instead of just going quest to quest to quest because they don't hide items in MMOs.

SPEAKER_00: 49:48

But yeah, no, they don't hide important items, they do hide items, but you'll find the random chests and stuff around.

SPEAKER_01: 49:57

Yeah, but like I I was playing it in what's where was the commando? What planet was that? Ord Mantel start. Ord Mentel, yeah. I was in Ord Mantel searching it like it was Fallout 4, looking for and I didn't understand it, but like the graphics just didn't do it for me.

SPEAKER_02: 50:16

I thought the graphics when I first started playing were actually really neat because it was an interesting balance between cartoon and realistic for the time.

unknown: 50:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:32

But if you're used to Call of Duty, yes, yeah, like I thought it looked better than World of Warcraft because that just straight up looks like a cartoon to me and not the kind of cartoon that I want to look at.

SPEAKER_01: 50:47

I agree with you. I just for me to be honest, I just I saw the con I saw the trailers, never saw any of the gameplay, just waited for the game to come out, and I turned it on. I was like, this doesn't look like the trailers.

SPEAKER_02: 51:06

That is a whole podcast episode, right there.

SPEAKER_00: 51:09

Right. That is a whole nother thing.

SPEAKER_02: 51:13

There are so many game companies that are guilty of creating false expectations using trailers, and they really shouldn't do that. Like I Baldur's Gate 3 looks awesome. Sometimes it's glitchy, but it looks awesome. But that trailer for the next Divinity game, Divinity is not gonna look like that. That was a badass trailer. I would watch that movie, I would watch that movie with that level of CGI. That's not what the game's gonna look like.

SPEAKER_00: 51:52

Well, that's why those are cinematics and not actual gameplay.

SPEAKER_02: 51:55

But I'm coming from playing first-person shooters and which are hyper-realistic as much as you can with the technology, watching these trailers going, and I love Star Wars.

SPEAKER_01: 52:08

Star Wars is everything for me, and then you sign up and you're like, What in the fuck is this? That was my mental state.

SPEAKER_00: 52:18

I got a different experience though, because I was I was waiting for Swotor to come out for so many years because I fell in love with KOTOR and KOTOR 2. And this is a KOTOR 3, if you in a sense, and I can we can go that can we can talk about that later. But I was I remember I was living out in Wyoming. I remember sitting there waiting, reading the updates, reading all the stuff, and yeah, I got the collector's edition. It was awesome. And then the movers broke Malgus, which made me very mad. I have oh, you wait, you don't have Malgus anymore?

SPEAKER_01: 52:56

No, the mover's broken. Do you want one?

SPEAKER_02: 53:00

No, I'm good. Okay. Marcus was trying to solve your problem and fix it during the day. I appreciate it. I have two.

SPEAKER_01: 53:09

That's the only reason I offered.

SPEAKER_02: 53:12

But I'll take them. There's a spot right where the PlayStation portal is giving us all a migraine.

SPEAKER_01: 53:20

Yeah, I was just thinking that. I wish that thing was somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02: 53:23

If I get a lamp in here and I don't use the overhead light, this problem goes away. It's because the light is getting the fan blades.

SPEAKER_01: 53:33

Should do like LED lights around the top.

SPEAKER_02: 53:37

I just am not in night mode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 53:45

It's only 7 a.m. for you right now because you're about to be up. All night.

SPEAKER_02: 53:50

I have about nine cups of coffee.

SPEAKER_00: 53:56

And you know what you can do with that much coffee?

SPEAKER_02: 53:58

You can continue the drink.