Why Leaders Fail: A Sergeant's Major 5 Rules

What separates someone who has a leadership title from someone people genuinely want to follow?

In this episode, I am joined by Mark J. O’Loughlin, a retired Marine Corps Sergeant Major whose 30-year career includes infantry leadership, drill instructor duty, deployments to Desert Storm and Iraq, and senior roles supporting wounded Marines. Mark shares lessons from his new book, Validated Leadership, built around five practical leadership rules designed for real life—not just theory.

We discuss why organizations often promote top performers into leadership roles without preparing them to lead, what behaviors help teams succeed, and how empathy, accountability, and difficult conversations shape stronger leaders.

Whether you're leading a team, a family, or stepping into a new leadership role, this conversation delivers practical takeaways you can apply immediately.

Chapters:

0:00 Welcome and Mission Plus Thanks
2:34 From Iowa Farm to Sergeant Major
5:46 Helping Veterans Through Psych Armor Work
7:19 Building Leadership Rules into A Book
9:40 The Moment He Started Writing
13:00 Rule One: Care About People
15:20 Learn More About Mark and Validated Leadership 
17:11 Financial Counseling and Hard Truths
20:55 One Practical Tip for New Authors
22:19 Final Takeaways and Sign Off

Transcript

Welcome And Mission Plus Thanks

Mario P. Fields 0:05

Welcome to Unarmored Talk, where we remove the armor, have real conversations, and strengthen how we think and respond to life. Everyone, I am joined today by an amazing guest. His name is Mark J. O'Laughlin. He's a retired sergeant major, did about 5,000 years in the Marines. But um and everyone, he's a seasoned leader, decades of service and commitment to others, you know. And now he is recently stepping into a new chapter as an author. Mark, welcome to the show, man.

Mark J. O'Loughlin 0:42

Thank you, Mario. It's great to be on here. Thank you for uh for allowing me to uh come on board your uh amazing uh podcast. It's uh it's uh you know, I we watch a lot of those episodes, and uh you've been on the other uh podcast that I'm on with uh Andrew Cox. Yes, sir. Uh so uh yeah, it's great to uh to be in the same the same uh arena with you because you're one of the leaders in this podcast arena, that's for sure.

Mario P. Fields 1:07

I I truly, truly appreciate you, man. And you guys know the deal, the show would not exist without amazing guests uh like Mark. Andrew Cox, I have fun on his show. If you guys haven't subscribed to Andrew Cox, the Lost Art Project, shame on you. Subscribe to it. But before we get to our amazing guests, I want to thank everyone since 2020. Every episode, every guest, every download, every click on a YouTube channel. I don't care if it's a penny, it's off for charity. It goes to Still Serving Incorporated. And um, surprisingly, uh, we were Still Serving Corporate was recently recognized um in it by the by the Human Relations Council in Greenville, North Carolina, uh, for being uh a nonprofit that has made significant contributions and impact over the past eight years. And the award is called the Distinguished Inclusive Community Service Award. And there's no way I could have done this and the organization could have done this without your your support. So I don't have one of those fancy buttons, so I'm gonna clap. Maybe by 2027, Mark, I'll get enough money, you know, to upgrade. But uh, thank you guys from the bottom of my heart. God bless you all. And I just honestly, I truly appreciate it. I have a permanent tan, so you can't see me blushing. So let's get to it. Mark, can you tell the listeners and viewers just a little bit about you?

Helping Veterans Through PsychArmor Work

Building Leadership Rules Into A Book

Mark J. O'Loughlin 2:34

Uh originally an Iowa farm boy, northeast Iowa. Uh grew up. I was the number five child of nine kids. Uh we're uh eight of us were all one year apart. And uh and uh so I just grew up there. Uh my father was a Korean War veteran from the U.S. Army, uh, wounded twice in combat. So I grew up uh, you know, listening to his stories, listening to his friends' stories, and you know, all my uh uncles were World War II and Korea War veterans, everything like that. So I knew I wanted to join the Marine Corps, uh, or I knew I wanted to join the service, but then you know, one day I saw the Sand Z regime with John Wayne, and I knew the Marine Corps was my path. And uh so uh turned 17. Um my parents uh signed the papers for me to join the Marine Corps, and I was a guaranteed contract uh infantryman. So I joined the infantry. I uh start off uh my first year at Marine Barrett Fallbrook, California, Naval Weapons Station. So then I went to 3rd Battalion, 9th Marines at Camp Pendleton, did a deployment with them, re-enlisted, uh became a drill instructor, senior drill instructor, uh transferred to the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines at Camp Pendleton, spent the next five years there, three more deployments to include Desert Storm. Uh became an instructor at uh the School of Infantry West, uh got promoted again to staff sergeant and uh back to the 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine, uh 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, did a deployment to the Persian Gulf, cross deck, went back with 2-1 to uh the Persian Gulf, came back, reenlisted, went back to the drill field. I was a drill instructor, senior drill instructor instructor at the drill instructor school. Um the war kicked off in 03, right up to 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, did a deployment to Iraq with them, came back, got promoted first sergeant, went over to 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines again, and did two more uh trips to Iraq. Came back, uh selected sergeant major, went back to the drill field and and uh was battalion sergeant major. Uh and then I finished my career as the uh wounded war battalion sergeant major at Camp Pendleton, Wounded War Battalion West at Camp Pendleton. Wow, you know, and uh yeah, so there was that was my 30 years of fun uh in the Marine Corps. Um you know, infantrymen loved it. I did a little straight up the middle, two up one back, child on the objective, you know. Uh it was just uh living the Spartan life, uh traveling over to uh all sorts of different countries. You know, I did nine deployments overseas, five of them by naval shipping, or uh or six of them, six six or so. But so I got to go to a lot of different uh countries and uh see the world, train with different militaries and everything. So I had a great time. Plus, I was uh blessed to be able to be a drill instructor to you know to train, uh put my DNA imprint on you know thousands of recruits. I did uh five uh uh cycles as a drill instructor, three as uh uh or four as a senior drill instructor, and uh then got to go to be instructor at the drill instructor school, which was a definitely a highlight of uh my career, training those who want to train the trainers. So uh then after that, uh I helped build a not-for-profit organization called Psych Armor, uh, where we teach medical and mental health professionals on how to work with veterans, because you know, so many times, you know, there was a flood of all of our veterans or all of our active duty military being kind of farmed out to civilian providers because there wasn't enough in the VA system. And so we used to travel around. Uh me and the founder used to travel around and uh teach medical and mental health professionals on the best way to deal with veterans and help how to build that uh rapport with them. Because all this scourge of uh veteran suicide, they've proven that before a veteran has taken his taken their life, they have seen a mental health professional within weeks. So, where was the disconnect? And so the founder, Marjorie Morrison of uh Psych Armor, she said, well, unless they have a connection with the military, they're not gonna really know about the military. So we helped uh build that, and that organization is going strong. Marjorie has moved out and started two other organizations uh to for mental in the mental health arena. Uh but I did about three years with them. Uh, and then I started to use my uh jab bill, got my uh got my degrees. I worked for a steel company as an estimator and a project manager for a few years. And then uh now I'm uh for the last almost two years, now I've been working for the Wounded Warrior Project as a financial counselor. And then, as you said, then I uh I've always had this uh uh book idea in my mind ever since I was, you know, a probably a platoon sergeant, you know, and I took all the leadership that I've learned in life and the Marine Corps and afterwards, and I just organized it into my five rules. So the book is called Validated Leadership, and it's five simple rules of how my mind organized in leadership and projected it out and how I led in the Marine Corps and afterwards. I'd done consulting work uh for companies going there and train their uh supervisors, managers, things like that. Because in the civilian world, a lot of people get promoted to a leadership position. A lot of times they might not want to be in that leadership position, but they were the best performer, so they automatically get moved up, but no one really trains them on how to be a leader, and so they either sink or swim, and it's not really fair to them. So, this book that I wrote, Validated Leadership, it's uh my my five rules on how to instruct, inspire, motivate, and activate the human spirit of the people in your organization. It's the same way I did it with uh the Marines throughout my career and how I was learned or how I was taught.

The Moment He Started Writing

Mario P. Fields 8:44

Yeah, and you you know, it and going from the fifth kid, you know, to 30 years, and for civilians, uh, you know, for those who haven't served uh that are loyal listeners and viewers, uh, to go to boot camp and then to uh uh achieve the rank of E9 sergeant major is like 0.00000%. So so to be able to do that for 30 years, you know, and thanks for your service, and thanks for your family too. The commitment to serve in the genes and the DNA of your family is amazing. But did but to commit 30 years, just so everyone know you don't have to do 30 years. That is a commitment, and and so for 30 years, you know, you put yourself last and put the the nation first, and Marines and sailors and civilians, and then your family as well. Just impressive. And let's get to the book. You guys heard it, uh, you know, and not even before the book, you you know, you know, Mark has an entrepreneur space in him, lots of experience and wisdom. If you guys want to be an entrepreneur, I'm gonna put a plug in here. You know, you connect to on LinkedIn. His his uh LinkedIn uh profile will be in the show notes. But now we got this book. You you take this step to put some five key points. What moment did you go? I just need to archive this in a book before, you know, just get it out of my head and get it archived in a book.

Mark J. O'Loughlin 10:15

It was uh I would say it was before I retired. Uh before I retired, I knew I was gonna write that book. And I um on this long flight uh as a Wonder War battalion sergeant major, the battalion commander and I flew from Newark, New Jersey to Honolulu and then Honolulu to to Okinawa to check in our Marines out there. And I just sat down on that flight and I took all my notes, and I just I already had like a an outline, so I just expounded on that outline and I got those five. I always worked with those five rules, so I outlined it, I put in like basic leadership stuff so that anybody can take this book and learn about leadership, and it's just the leadership that the Marine Corps taught us, and then I do my five rules and then I tell how you can apply it to your life. Okay, but it all comes down, I really think it comes down to three basic things: God, country, and service. Yeah, service to others. I mean, for you and I, it was it was service to the, you know, to the we had the privilege of being service to the United States Marine Corps, our country through the United States Marine Service. God, country, service. But these five rules, uh, these five rules, they're not theory, it's not conjecture, it's not speculation. These rules are tested, proven, and trusted. They've worked throughout history, combat environments, peacetime, civilian life, families, everything. You can take these five rules and apply them to your life, any any aspect of your life or business.

Mario P. Fields 11:57

Yeah. And and um you know, before I go into the to the five rules and components, I just realized that you and I, um, number one, I that was my last assignment, Wounded Warrior Battalion West. I know, yeah. And I just just you know, just had some fond memories of taking care of the sick, ill, and injured. And then Wounded Warrior Project, again, wonderful organization, everyone. They really took care of me on the way out. Uh, and so let me just put another plug in for them, brought back some personal.

Mark J. O'Loughlin 12:27

Definitely. Wounded Warrior Project's phenomenal organization.

Rule One Care About People

Mario P. Fields 12:30

Oh, yeah. But uh, so you, you know, and I love how you mentioned the the application part. You know, you got the IQ, the academics of stuff, but then the application. You can be smart as hell, but can't you apply it? And I love how you've connected your five rules where you can read it, you got the academic, the IQ approach, and then how do you apply it to life in any industry? Can you talk about like out of your five, which one would you say is the most effective or powerful if you had to pick one?

Mark J. O'Loughlin 13:00

I had to pick one. Uh, the well, the first rule is you have to care about people and desire to be a good leader. Okay, because you you know, there's an ancient saying that nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. You could be the most proficient, knowledgeable leader in the world. But if your people think you're just using them to aggrandize yourself, they're not gonna put forth a great effort. And when I say care, I don't mean carry. Your uh position as a leader demands that you fulfill the duty to develop your uh the people that's under your charge. You remember from the Marine, the Marine Corps teaches with leadership that you know General Lejeune said a leader, uh subordinate should be father-son, teacher, uh, student mentality, not superior, inferior. So it's all about caring and trying to, you know, this is another human being that you're trying to increase their desire to raise their standards of performance, behavior, and conduct, okay, which will propel them in life to improve themselves, improve whatever the organization they're in, be a better family man or uh or employee, employer, things like that.

Where To Buy The Book

Mario P. Fields 14:36

Yeah, you know, and I've seen you firsthand, you know, care for people because you you gave them your time when you didn't have to. You know, that's one thing I've even seen you. You we own our time, and you don't have to give it to anyone. And I've seen you do it, and you're still doing it. So if anyone wanted a metric on or to conceptualize how does Mark care, well, there's one of them. He's he's giving his time, and you can see it, and he doesn't have to. He can go, I don't need to give you my time, I'm gonna go take a run. Now we're retired. I know for Mario, I'm just running to the mailbox and back, but you may you may run more than me, Mark, but oh man. So so where can people find it? Like, how can people purchase a copy? Um, you know, where can they get it?

Mark J. O'Loughlin 15:26

Right now it'll uh it's it's gonna be out on Amazon and Kindle. So you can order a hard copy, paperback, or the the ebook. Um, I'm I'm having uh just uh uh an issue with uh something about the emails that get attached to the Kindle account. There's some little mix-up, so there's there might be just a little delay right now, but it's gonna be on Amazon, it'll be on my website, uh validatedleadership.com. And uh so yes, it'll be out, it'll be out there in the uh in the electronic world very soon.

Mario P. Fields 16:05

Validatedleadership.com. And you know the deal, nothing's great without some hiccups, man. I I I firmly believe that now that I'm I'm about to turn 95 years old, everyone. The cake doesn't come out of the oven just right. Normally those are the best.

Mark J. O'Loughlin 16:23

You know what, Mario, it comes down to God's delays are not God's denials. Amen. Anything anything in life that's worth getting accomplished is gonna be on God's time. There's no coincidence, it's all God incidents. You ain't lying. So there's a there's a certain reason why these little hiccups have been going on.

Financial Counseling And Hard Truths

Mario P. Fields 16:45

You got that, right? What did you say? We have our plans and God has his, and they normally don't align at all. At all. So so what's next? Uh you know, so now you know you you've given your time, which you didn't have to. I mean, you did 30 years, man. You know, and you and I talked offline the first time. We're both grandparents, and so that's a beautiful, beautiful journey and experience. But what's next? What's what's in the future for Mark?

Mark J. O'Loughlin 17:11

So I'm uh still with the uh one war project, and right now I can't really see. I love what I do. I get to talk with veterans of all services. From um, and it's just great, you know. Not just, you know, I've dealt with Marines most of my my time, but now with the One Warrior Project, I get to deal with uh veterans of all services, and it's great talking to them, learning about them. And sometimes, you know, we do financial counseling. A lot of times, though, they're kind of in a financial crisis. So once again, you gotta care about them. You gotta, you gotta, and when care about them, and and sometimes you gotta tell them the hard things. Okay, look at your finances. You have to track your finances for a month, and it'll show is this a need or is this a want? Yeah, do you have to have that $300 a month streaming services? Can you afford that? Is it are you watching everything that you're getting? You know, it's just uh it's and then sometimes we also do some emergency financial assistance, and those are when they're in their those tough spots, and you have to use empathy and not sympathy to help them with their situation because you can't help everybody and you can't remove their entire problem. They got in this situation on their own. We can assist them, but then after we do emergency uh financial assistance, we get them in the financial education program so we can keep them moving forward. So the yeah, and the once again, the Wood of War project has the uh they have all route, they do mental health, they do uh job uh assistance, they do benefits. They're just they're just uh a great organization. But next, um I'm gonna I do uh I'm gonna probably try to increase my public speaking. I uh I like to speak to uh uh you know different organizations. I also like go into organizations and teach their young leaders on how, but you know, um something that's amazing. Sometimes you know, some of these uh CEOs, they're you know, they've got the 10-pound brains, they're brilliant, they they set this company up, but they have never been a real leader, and so they need some uh they need some assistance uh um with their leadership skills also. And so that's you know, and so it's it's kind of like going back in, Mario, like when we had our commanders, you know, we had that great relationship with our uh commander, and you know, you're on the so you're working with those CEOs and you're you're telling them things that sometimes they don't want to hear about what's going on in their organization. And so I love that. So I'd like to do some more of that. Um the public speaking, and I am in this organization called the Nice Guys of San Diego, it's a charity organization, 100% uh volunteer organization, no paid staff. 100% of what we raise goes back out to help uh good causes in San Diego County, San Diego County only. So this year I'm the president of that organization, and so that keeps me even busier.

One Practical Tip For New Authors

Mario P. Fields 20:21

Like nice guys in San Diego. I'm missing I'm not gonna lie, I miss I love it where I'm at here in North Carolina, in the Carolinas, but I do miss Southern Cal, man. I'm not gonna lie. You know, you know hey, I I I miss Southern Cal, baby. And I am an EDM, everyone. If you don't know that, I'm an EDM uh fan. I do like to attend EDC festivals, so that's another reason why I miss Southern Cal because you got that LA ED EDC Vegas. That's my world. Hey, well, you know, Mark, I could have you here all day. I want to leave you, you know, I want to ask you one last question. I believe there's a lot of folks who are considering becoming authors, even maybe a co-author, and and you've gone through this journey. And uh, so what what uh if you had to pick one tip, what would it be for someone who's starting off this journey?

Mark J. O'Loughlin 21:10

We'll start off uh that journey, everybody has a story, everyone, and it's worth telling if if uh only for the sense that you are gonna accomplish something. So my suggestion, my uh advice on this is to pick out a time, schedule an entire day or two over a weekend or something like that, and um seclude yourself, sit down, get that piece of paper out, and just start writing. Or if you're if you're more technological, you know, record it and then have it transcribed. But just take that what's in that mind and your heart and get it out there, get it put on paper, find someone who's already uh published a book. So that you get with the correct publisher. Because your publisher will uh really help you along the lines. So set down, schedule a date and do it.

Final Takeaways And Sign Off

Mario P. Fields 22:14

I like that, Mark. Be intentional, everyone, and be focused and just do it. Just do it, Mark. This has been great. And thanks for sharing your experience. Um and uh and definitely putting it in a book where folks can continue to learn um from you. I truly appreciate you coming on the show, my friend.

Mark J. O'Loughlin 22:34

All right, thank you for the uh the invite and for hosting me.

Mario P. Fields 22:39

No, my pleasure, man. And Simper Fire Brother, everyone. You know, again, until next episode, I will continue to pray for you and your friends, families. Even if you have pets, they are living beings as well. But thank you for your continued support. Stay unarmored. Please stay authentic and stay mentally fit. God bless you all.