Lessons From 250 Episodes With Customer Focused Business Leaders From Across The World

Hey CX Nation,

We're celebrating a huge milestone with this week's episode. Over the last 6+ years we've captured and chronicled 250 unique episodes & stories with various customer focused business leaders & Founders from across the world.

We decided for this episode to go back and feature some of the best learnings, findings & CTAs from some of our favorite guests over the years & break them out into short-clips across the Four CX Pillars: Team, Tools, Process & Feedback.

Our goal was to aggregate the key learnings & findings for future Founders & Executives to use as a foundation when thinking through how to build and design not only their business but their customer & employee experiences as they scale into the future.

**Episode #250 Highlight Reel:**

1. Pillar #1 Team -- featured guests include:
Alex Ross (Co-Founder & COO at Hire Horatio) in CXCP #198
Lloyd Lobo (Co-Founder & Board Member at Boast + CEO of a new stealth startup) CXCP #208
Vivek Bhaskaran (Founder & CEO at QuestionPro) CXCP #245
Trey Wade (Head of Consumer Experience at Molson-Coors Beverage Company) CXCP #232

2. Pillar #2 Tools featured guests include:
Lee Roquet (CEO at Finch) CXCP #123 & CXCP #238
Kristi Faltorusso (CCO at Client Success) CXCP #169
Somya Kapoor (Co-Founder & CEO) CXCP #199
Lynn Schlesinger (CXO at Forbes) CXCP #241
Craig Tobin (CEO at Ascent Business Partners) CXCP #248

3. Pillar #3 Process featured guests include:
Erik Huberman (Founder & CEO at Hawke Media) CXCP #240
Uku Tomikas (CEO at Messente Communications) CXCP #214
Melissa Kwan (Co-Founder & CEO at eWebinar) CXCP #204
John Spottiswood (Chief Operating & Data Officer at Jerry) CXCP #234
Dennis Yu (CEO of Blitzmetrics) CXCP #135
Deon Nicholas (Founder & CEO at Forthought AI) CXCP #175
Declan Ivory (VP of Global Customer Support at Intercom) CXCP #205
Vasco Pedro (Co-Founder & CEO at Unbabel) CXCP #139

4. Pillar #4 Feedback featured guests include:
Morgan J. Ingram (Founder & CEO at AMP) CXCP #196
Nick Francis (Founder & CEO at Help Scout) CXCP #163
Steve Cornwell (Serial Founder & Investor) CXCP #203
Natalie Onions (VP of Customer Experience at Customer.io) CXCP #190
Bill Staikos (Head of CX at BNY Mellon) CXCP #166
Ethan Beute (Principal Brand Marketing Strategist at Zillow, Follow Up Boss) CXCP #176

Huge thanks to all of the other incredible guests that we've had the fortune of having on the show. Most importantly, thanks to the 10K+ members of the "CX Nation" for tuning into the podcast each and every week and making this show & our business a reality.

We have one ask for all of you that listen to this episode...

Go tell one of your friends or teammates about CXC's content & please invite them to join the CX Nation!

We are just getting started folks, so be on the lookout for more content coming from CXC in 2025.

If you like what you hear in this episode please...

Click here to grab a copy of my book "The Four CX Pillars To Grow Your Business Now" available on Amazon or the CXC website.

And for you non-readers, go check out the CXChronicles Youtube channel to see our content.

Transcript

The CXChronicles Podcast #250-  Make Happiness A Habit

Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - Hey guys, Adrian Brady Chisana here, founder and CEO at CX Chronicles and host of the CX Chronicles podcast. Believe it or not, we've made it to the 250th episode of the podcast, guys. 

Speaker 1 (00:00:10) - When I started this show, I wanted to really kind of go out and chronicle how all of the different customer-focused business leaders that were way ahead of me at that point in my career and running big companies, customer-facing teams, I wanted to understand how they were thinking about building their team and building out their tools and their tech stack and building process and thinking about feedback. 

Speaker 1 (00:00:33) - And I just wanted to be able to chronicle and document all the different ways that people were thinking about this across different industries, across different businesses. So here we are today, we've made it all the way to the 250th episode. Number one, thank you so much for every single one of you guys being a part of the CX Nation. Huge thanks to all the guests that we've had on the show over the last five plus years now. So what we did today a little bit different than our normal episodes. 

Speaker 1 (00:00:58) - We went back and went through every single solitary one of the episodes. We tried to pull out some of the best of the best, if you will. And surprise, surprise, we broke things out into the four pillars. So today what you're going to hear on this episode is you're going to hear a variety of different clips from our guests across team, tools, process, and feedback. 

Speaker 1 (00:01:18) - And we wanted to try to do almost like an aggregate of all the great things and all the CTAs and the golden nuggets and just the general wisdom that we've tried to chronicle and document over these first 250 episodes. I hope you guys enjoy today's show. And again, I just want to thank every single solitary one of you for making CXE a reality. Okay. In this first section, we're going to tackle the first CX pillar of team. Over all the years and all the episodes, so many of our guests have agreed that team is the most critical of all the four pillars. 

Speaker 1 (00:01:52) - Who you put on your team, who you hire, who you basically bring onto the squad that's going to literally build all of your downstream pillars is absolutely paramount. In this section, you're going to hear from some amazing customer focused business leaders and get some ideas around how they've thought about team building, team leadership, team management, team motivation. In this section, you'll hear from the following guests in this order. First, we have Alex Ross, co-founder and COO at Hire Horatio. You can listen to Alex's episode at CXCP 198. 

Speaker 1 (00:02:30) - Next, we have Lloyd Lobo, co-founder board member at Boast and co-founder and CEO to stealth startup that he's working on right now. You can listen to Lloyd's episode at CXCP 208. Next, we have Vivek Bhaskara, founder and CEO at Question Pro. Vivek's got an incredible story and we were super, super thrilled to have him on the show. Plus, we got to meet him live at X-Day 2023 and 2024 in Austin, Texas. And you can listen to Vivek's episode at CXCP 245. And last, Trey Wade, head of consumer experience at Molson Coors Beverage Company. 

Speaker 1 (00:03:10) - And you can listen to Trey's story at CXCP 232. I hope you guys enjoy this section. So I'd love for you to just, why don't we jump into the first pillar team? And I'd love to kind of have you paint that picture for all the incredible things you're doing in this incredible team of humans that you guys are putting together across the world. 

Speaker 2 (00:03:29) - When we talk about the four pillars, team to me is probably the one that stands out the most. I know it sounds cliche and everybody wants to talk about their team. For us, team was probably one of the first things to be focused on. If you think about the outsourcing and the CX industry in general, typically you think of old antiquated companies, not great experiences, reading scripts, not data-focused, low-end technology. And for us, one of the things you said is, to offer a better experience for all of our clients, what do we need to do? 

Speaker 2 (00:04:04) - We knew the package around the tools and the software and everything we needed to put together, but we really needed to think about team. And our thesis was that if we can hire really, really top talented people, offer them an unparalleled experience, then we can also serve that to our clients. And so what you've seen is that in our offices in the Dominican Republic, if you walked in there, you wouldn't be sure if you were at Horatio or if you were at Google's headquarters down in the DR. We have invested in everything for the employee experience. 

Speaker 2 (00:04:37) - We have on-staff therapists throughout the day. We serve three meals a day for free for everybody that's there. We have a great, phenomenal gym that I just got back from using last week. And it's all open floor plan, open space, and many other perks and parties. And the idea here is.

Speaker 2 (00:04:58) - keep employees happy, keep them motivated, pair them with really interesting, fast-growing companies, and give them a new type of work. And that has been kind of our key to success. And it's really been centered around how can you build the best team, incentivize the best team, and put them in an environment that they can do their best work. And that's where we focused mainly in growing this business. 

Speaker 3 (00:05:20) - So when you're starting out, right, you gotta think, how do I build a human-first company? And I tell you, man, great companies are built on great alignment. When you have no alignment going in, it's gonna be very hard. So in terms of building your team, I think the first step is figuring out alignment. Great companies, great cultures, great movements, great communities are built on great alignment. And if you don't set that on day one, when you hire executives and people, you'll have misalignment. 

Speaker 3 (00:05:51) - And trust me, employees don't watch what you say on your lips. They watch what you do, right? They don't read your lips. They don't read what's written on the wall or on the website. They literally watch what you do. And so start with a purpose, a great purpose, a purpose that transcends beyond the product, service, or profit. It is a greater impact. The next one is the vision, right? What will the world be as a result of your existence? Then it's a mission. How do you do it? And the last one is the values. How do we behave? 

Speaker 3 (00:06:24) - How do we show up day in, day out? And having that alignment is really key. And hiring and firing people, scoring people, that should be your rubric. Make sure you find alignment on your core values. So if you care deeply about empathy, then don't hire people who behave like tyrants. And even if you can't catch it in the interview, and the first two weeks, three weeks, four weeks on the job, no matter how senior they are, if they're leading with tyranny, they gotta be out. 

Speaker 3 (00:06:58) - If your value is customer connectivity because you're a customer-led, community-led company, but you hire a head of product, and the first two weeks are not spent calling customers and talking to them, and they're spending time in spreadsheets, you know this person gotta go. 

Speaker 4 (00:07:13) - Like, you gotta have a conversation, you gotta go. 

Speaker 3 (00:07:15) - So I think that is the first step of building a team. 

Speaker 1 (00:07:17) - So, the one thing my friend Codon, I'll tell a very personal story, he told me when I was trying to pitch him to come on and join us and be part of this journey with me, he was like, bro, I don't give a fuck about how much you pay me, but don't make me work with idiots. That's my mantra, simple mantra. A smart, awesome group of people. Yes, and I look at it from a perspective of, like, dude, if I put an amazing, smart people together, and they like working with each other, we're gonna fucking crush it. You're gonna kill it, you're gonna kill it. 

Speaker 1 (00:07:45) - That's it, that's all. 

Speaker 10 (00:07:46) - 100%. 

Speaker 1 (00:07:46) - I look at it, I'll give a very personal answer, like, look, yeah, you could have done a bunch of things, but you're smart, you like working with us, we all love working with you. That is super important to me, right? If you can create an environment where people love working with each other, and why do people love it? Because they're intellectually stimulating, and I'm a strong believer of that. 

Speaker 1 (00:08:07) - Like, so if we can create, look, if I can create an environment where people love working with each other, instead of shitting on each other and doing all this drama, right? And that requires certain things, it requires transparency, and they have to believe that the person right next to you, their colleague, actually smart, and is contributing to the game, really, right? 

Speaker 10 (00:08:28) - It's a team. 

Speaker 1 (00:08:28) - I look at these things as a team sport, right? I don't look at this, a lot of people say, hey, look, a company's like a family. I don't believe that, because what's the first thing that comes to your mind when it's a family? It's dysfunctional. 

Speaker 2 (00:08:41) - You know, at least mine is, let me tell you that. 

Speaker 10 (00:08:43) - I understand. 

Speaker 4 (00:08:44) - I'd say most of us agree with that. 

Speaker 10 (00:08:46) - You know? 

Speaker 1 (00:08:46) - You think about it, right? 

Speaker 4 (00:08:48) - I think most of us agree with that. 

Speaker 1 (00:08:49) - No, but it's a team sport. I look at it as a team sport. I mean, team connotes the right thing, right? Look, we're all in this. We have a season. We're gonna win. And everybody's gonna work together. 

Speaker 4 (00:09:00) - It is hard to be differentiating without your people leading the way. If your team is not the differentiator, your product doesn't matter. And so we focus heavily, right now, in our infancy stages, we're focused very heavily on making sure our team is equipped, our team is supported, they have the visibility into what we have going on at scale, and then they also have the autonomy in the market to go out and be a little bit creative. Yeah, right, right. 

Speaker 4 (00:09:25) - You know, the easy thing to do right now in this early stage is be kind of tight-fisted and say, we don't know if we are gonna be able to make this make sense long-term, but the challenge to us as a leadership team is how do we make this work?

Speaker 1 (00:09:37) - We hired the right people. Yep, we're equipping them with the right tools. Let them go do. 

Speaker 5 (00:09:41) - Why we? 

Speaker 1 (00:09:42) - What do we hire them for with what we've given them? In this next section we're going to tackle the second CX pillar of tools. You know, guys, when I started CX chronicles almost five years ago, I thought the big problem that I was going to go try to tackle and solve for the world was in the US alone, companies were losing 62 billion dollars per year due to poor customer experiences. Fast forward, you know: 2024. That number has grown right. Reports suggested we're almost closer to 75 or even a hundred billion dollars a year. 

Speaker 5 (00:10:13) - Globally. 

Speaker 1 (00:10:13) - That number is way bigger. But here's the funny part: as we went through the 250 episodes, as we grew our business and worked with over a hundred companies globally, helping them think about their CX and their CS efforts, we started to realize that there's a way bigger problem out there in the world, and that's in this section that we're talking about right now: tools. Within the next five years, companies globally are going to be spending three quarters of a trillion dollars per year on their tech stack and their SAS and software solutions. 

Speaker 1 (00:10:41) - Here's the thing: some of the best companies on planet Earth only see 20 to 30 percent utilization performance within their teams. That is crazy. That means there's a huge opportunity for business owners to think about how they can leverage and really focus on utilizing a handful of tools instead of constantly going to different software solutions looking for the next whiz bank solution that's going to change their business. In this section you'll hear from the following guests, in this order: first off, my very good friend, Lee Roquette, CEO at Finch. 

Speaker 1 (00:11:15) - Lee is actually one of the few two-time guests that we've had on the show guys. You could find Lee in CXP 123 and CXP 238. Next, Christy Felter Russo, chief customer officer at client success. Christy's an incredible thought leader in the space and has become a friend of mine and she is so awesome. You got to check out her podcast. You got to check out the work that she does. You could find our conversation in CX CP 169. 

Speaker 5 (00:11:40) - Plus. 

Speaker 1 (00:11:40) - Christie's made some some guest appearances and other shows that we've had down the line. Next, Somya Kapoor, co-founder and CEO at the loops. You could find Somya in CX CP 199. After that, Lynn Schlesinger, CXO at Forbes. You could find Lynn's episode of CX CP 241. And lastly, Craig Tobin, CEO at accent business partners. You could find Craig in CX, CP 248. I hope you guys enjoy this section. Lee, I'd love for you to spend a couple of minutes diving into the second pillar of tools. 

Speaker 1 (00:12:14) - I'd love to kind of understand what other tools are you guys using, or what other software, what other technology fits into the today's tech stack? 

Speaker 5 (00:12:20) - Yeah, it's funny. I I definitely took the Adrian playbook when I first stepped in doing that audit of going how much are we spending on software and tools, and come to find out we have 87 applications. Yeah, you know, every department had to have their own thing and then, just looking at that, I mean we went from probably close to four hundred thousand dollars a year down to about 200, which is, you know, getting those, those quick wins. We have 87 applications and who's using these? It's just but it that doesn't it. 

Speaker 5 (00:12:54) - It's hard to connect the whole company across systems and so you know about, we have HubSpot now just because it's it kind of fits our need and we're doing hubSpot for our website. All of our marketing as well as sales definitely was trying to get to, you know, kind of the whole company on. It just didn't meet our need for ticketing and some of the back-end office stuff. 

Speaker 5 (00:13:18) - So what I did was I just I put a team together and I said, okay, guys, you're gonna go out and find the best solution, because I was also having problems with adoption, because I shoved it down everyone's throats, and so I said, you... I'm not gonna- and it was hard for me not to want to be involved in this- I want a hundred percent or near hundred percent adoption from the team. Yep, so whatever you decide, I will support. But you got it. You got to help improve the efficiency and the quality of work and I'll give it to them. 

Speaker 5 (00:13:56) - They, they went out, we and I was kind of part of the team, but I kept my mouth shut- and we looked at five or six, you know, CRMs for ticketing systems and communication, and the team came back and they have basically been able to build a whole ticketing automation system in a sauna, in a what was pretty amazing, as they did it, like the whole- I mean, every department is now part of a sauna and project boards and we've automated everything from hub spot. 

Speaker 1 (00:14:25) - It's. 

Speaker 5 (00:14:26) - It's pretty impressive and it wouldn't have been something that I thought traditionally would have worked, but the team came back and and everyone in the company is using it. 

Speaker 6 (00:14:36) - Teams that have a very clear vision and a strategy around how they intend to use the solution are usually going to be more successful. The ones who have it defined: they're gonna get it right a hundred percent of the time. Now, what we always say also is like be clear on the what. 

Speaker 6 (00:14:54) - but be flexible on the how, right? And this is to be true for all technology, right? Like be clear on what it is you're trying to accomplish, but also be flexible on how we're gonna get there because not every tool is gonna be built the way that you need it. And so people that have that clear mindset, right? Like we know exactly what we want to achieve, help us figure out how we get there. Those are the partnerships where our customers can really get value from every single thing our solution does. 

Speaker 6 (00:15:18) - The ones who are a little bit more rigid around their thought process around that, where they feel like they've defined their what and their how and aren't flexible. Those are the ones that often will run into roadblocks, right, where they're not gonna be pleased with a alternative way of getting things done and they'll almost be their worst enemy. 

Speaker 7 (00:15:34) - There's actually a McKinsey study done with prediction of CX. They said, you know, it's already arrived, right? And there's a case study in there. They said they spent three months of 12 to 15 data scientists time and they saw a 800 point increase in CSAT score and 60% reduction in churn. Every organization cannot afford to hire those data scientists, right? What GPT has shown or what platforms like Loops can offer is how you make this AI accessible to a business user, right? You don't need to have a data science degree. You don't need to do Python. 

Speaker 7 (00:16:12) - You just need to understand how to drag and drop and understand your business, the data that you're seeing. How do you want to leverage in terms of trends, clusterings and stuff? You don't need to build these teams in-house. People always assume they want to do that. And the second thing I keep hearing people say is my data is not in right shape. Guys, nobody's data is in right shape. 

Speaker 10 (00:16:32) - It'll never be. 

Speaker 6 (00:16:32) - But do you want to understand the gaps of your data? 

Speaker 7 (00:16:36) - Use AI because that's what it'll start to tell you where the gaps are. 

Speaker 8 (00:16:40) - In this day and age, I think the most important thing any team can have is a strong foundation and that foundation from my perspective is built on the technology and the data running through that technology. That foundation needs to be scalable. So as your business grows and changes, you add new products and services, that foundation doesn't get lost. That foundation can remain intact and by building more into it. 

Speaker 8 (00:17:09) - One of my primary roles when I first got to Ford was to reimagine the data and technology stack for sales and marketing on the advertising side. 

Speaker 6 (00:17:17) - And we did that. 

Speaker 8 (00:17:19) - We created a full stack through some very well-known brand name partners who are actually here that allowed the sellers to do what they needed to do to track the deals, the marketers to market, email marketing primarily, allowing the sellers to see what the marketers were doing and then really watching the pipeline develop, the leads flow through and then being able to pinpoint what deals were influenced by marketing. So marketing influenced revenue, became a big part of our internal conversations on that side of the house. 

Speaker 8 (00:17:53) - Then as we started to look at other parts of the business where we could add value, we started to think about all of the other marketers across Forbes. We have a very decentralized marketing organization and each product essentially has its own marketer or marketing team. Rather than having one record set in only one place, now that information's attached and corroborated and now each of the marketers across the business can, using the right message at the right time, communicate with the right customer or prospect. 

Speaker 8 (00:18:21) - So it's changed a lot of how we do business and marketing at Forbes, but under the mission of creating a more seamless customer experience across the business. 

Speaker 2 (00:18:32) - I think it all starts with the business problem, having the right stakeholders there. I will tell you, this is a true story. We had a customer who wasn't ready for AI, right? Fundamentally, they had a pretty big problem with knowledge management, which was really the root cause of their problem. So we did a pay it forward at Ascent. We kind of introduced and said, we can help you, but you got to fix this problem first. By the way, here's one or two companies you need to talk to. We introduced them to them. 

Speaker 2 (00:19:03) - My understanding, and I've talked to them, they're doing a contract with one of the companies, but now we help them. It had nothing to do with Ascent, but we helped them solve a problem. I know they'll come back to us once they get that problem solved, because they'll be in a better position. Because AI, there's a foundation. And the biggest problem I saw with AI over the last few years is everybody raced to the penthouse. They wanted to have the shiny new penny and the new AI. Totally. 

Speaker 2 (00:19:28) - It's foundational infrastructure and things that have to be in place if you really want AI to work. That's why how many times has your listeners gone to a website and did a chat and just got utterly frustrated? Absolutely. I mean, that doesn't even answer your question. You type it in, it answers something else, or it takes you down a path that gets lost. And then you go talk to somebody in customer service because you're frustrated, and they have no idea your interaction with the website. So you're starting all over again. 

Speaker 2 (00:19:58) - Those are the problems we can solve. That should not be with today's technology and the capabilities. You do not have to have that experience for your customers.

Speaker 1 (00:20:08) - Okay, this next section, we're going to talk about the third CX pillar of process. I know I say it all the time on the show, guys, but I know it sounds like it's one of the most unsexy of the pillars, but the fact is, many guests agree that process is literally like the glue or the cement that can hold the pillars together, especially as a business begins to grow and especially as you begin scaling and your team starts to swell and your customer portfolio begins to swell. 

Speaker 1 (00:20:35) - Having process cleanly mapped and identified and having order and general knowledge for people to understand how your business operates is going to be critical. In this section, you'll hear from the following guests in this order. First, Eric Huberman, founder and CEO at Hawk Media. You can listen to Eric's episode on CXCP 240. Next, Uko Tamikos, CEO at Masante Communications. You can find Uko's episode at CXCP 214. After that, Melissa Kwan, co-founder and CEO at eWebinar, CXCP 204. 

Speaker 1 (00:21:15) - After that, John Spottiswood, chief operating and data officer at Jerry. You can listen to John's episode at CXCP 234. Next Dennis Yu, CEO at Blitzmetrics. You can listen to Dennis's episode at CXCP 135. After that, Dion Nicholas, founder and CEO at Forethought AI, CXCP 175. After that, Declan Ivory, VP of global customer support at Intercom. You can listen to Declan's episode at CXCP 205. And lastly, Vasco Pedro, co-founder and CEO at Unbabel. You can listen to Vasco's story at CXCP 139. 

Speaker 10 (00:22:02) - I hope you guys enjoyed this section. 

Speaker 1 (00:22:03) - The third pillar of process. What are some of the things that have shifted in your executive mind around how you're managing process this day and age? As everything's gotten bigger, more complex, you just said that the stakes have never been higher. How have you kind of changed some of the ways that you think about managing process within your business? Or what are some of the expectations you have for your executive leadership team around how they're managing process? 

Speaker 5 (00:22:26) - We had a conversation yesterday about some of the holes I'm seeing in that side and what we should fix and strategizing together because I see a lot of leaders do this. They were like, well, I told them and now we'll see what they do. It's like, fuck you. The result is on all of us. If my company is not successful, I suffer. So I'm going to go help and work with my execs, not just say, it's your job, not mine. I have weekly calls with all my executives. 

Speaker 5 (00:22:53) - We talk through their main KPIs and how they're tracking and where I see and then it'll usually spark a conversation around, OK, well, this is what's happening. Our churn number has improved drastically over the past two years and I still wanted to do better. So I'm like, well, I'm seeing this trend and the reason we're losing clients. That means to me this. Do you agree because you have more visibility? Yes, I do. Great. Well, how do you think we fix that? Here's how I think. He's like how that conversation went was like, I like that. 

Speaker 5 (00:23:20) - To be transparent, what we talked about was I'm seeing clients don't understand the real value we're providing sometimes, like we're doing all the numbers, everything's moving in the right direction. And they go, hey, we have this other shiny object agency that oversold us that we're going to go try out, not realizing what they're going to lose by just switching, thinking it's a commodity in some ways. I'm like, so I think we need to start highlighting on every call. 

Speaker 5 (00:23:43) - We have all the things that we're making an impact, all the wins that we're gaining, even though if the wins are small, I still want us pointing at the wins because I want them to get into the idea of like we're helping them win and we need to change that communication versus here's your Excel report. Here's the numbers. What do you think? Because then it feels like a commodity. So we need to change the way our service team is talking to this and start talking about how we're winning all the time. And he went, yeah, no, I actually like that. 

Speaker 5 (00:24:06) - Let me put that together and run with that. That's the kind of dynamic. And so when you talk about process, he goes and turns that into a process and a training system and all that to make sure that we're now actually doing that and creating accountability around that kind of communication. But the strategy is coming from a conversation with us. 

Speaker 3 (00:24:22) - We so often build solutions to problems that we didn't dive deeper into. And this is probably the biggest lesson I can give to any single business that you could possibly have. My first piece of advice is take a step back and understand whether the problem you are solving for them is an actual problem or a nice to have.

Speaker 3 (00:24:49) - Right now, in the global economic climate of things turning down a little bit, you see this so often. Businesses that used to be doing well are doing not as well because they thought they were solving a real problem. The fact of the matter was, they were solving a nice to have. Nice to have are the first thing to go when things turn. 

Speaker 1 (00:25:09) - I love that. 

Speaker 3 (00:25:11) - One of the best ways, this comes interestingly enough from LinkedIn themselves. The head of product on LinkedIn actually shared this in one of their courses. That the way they approach looking at product and product development is, they look for duct tape. Because if it hurts enough, the company has already tried to fix it themselves. Look for the duct tape. Are you replacing the duct tape or are you just cleaning the windows? Which one are you? Are you specifically fixing something or not? 

Speaker 7 (00:25:48) - Our attitude towards process from day one was also the same as everything else is, what is the least amount we can do possible to be most productive? Because I'd also been in situations where I work for other companies where people just love drowning in process, so they never do anything. 

Speaker 1 (00:26:07) - Totally. They wrap you up. 

Speaker 7 (00:26:09) - Should we do this feature? Well, let's talk to this person instead of this meeting and I'm just like, why? 

Speaker 1 (00:26:13) - Yeah. 

Speaker 7 (00:26:14) - Let's just do it. In a startup, you need to be fast, you need to be agile with thought and consideration, but you need to move fast. 

Speaker 1 (00:26:23) - Definitely. 

Speaker 7 (00:26:25) - We decided early on that we were only going to have one meeting a week and the whole team's remote. But then basically, we only have one call a week with the whole team, and on that call, it's an hour and a half and we update each other on what's going on. And if we need to, we talk about the next set of features that we're going to move into the planning board and then move into next, which is like to be developed next. 

Speaker 10 (00:26:50) - Cool. Okay. 

Speaker 7 (00:26:51) - And outside of that, I just chat with the non-product team constantly through Slack. 

Speaker 10 (00:26:57) - Okay. 

Speaker 7 (00:26:58) - But we are super cautious that everything has to happen asynchronously or Todd and I work closest together, we'll just hop on a quick call to do this and that. And then the devs, when they run out of things to do, they can just go there and pick up a new task. 

Speaker 3 (00:27:13) - Okay. 

Speaker 7 (00:27:13) - So we always make sure that in the next board, there's always new things to pick up. 

Speaker 10 (00:27:18) - Yep. 

Speaker 7 (00:27:19) - And if devs are running out of that, then the next call we have is to figure out what else goes into planning to get spec'd and then goes into next. 

Speaker 10 (00:27:27) - Got it. 

Speaker 7 (00:27:27) - So it's like a well-oiled machine at this point. But because I work with people who are so process-driven and reliable, the best thing you can have as a CEO co-founder is you never have to check anybody's work. I want to know, hey, what's happening. I go into what's being worked on, and then I go into what's getting pushed out next. And I know exactly what's going on. I can go into the planning board and see what's in the wishlist. I can clean that up myself. So having full visibility is awesome. 

Speaker 10 (00:28:00) - Yeah. 

Speaker 7 (00:28:00) - But it goes back to, because we made a point to make everything super simple, this whole process is now adopted. 

Speaker 1 (00:28:10) - One advantage, as you build out these virtual agent systems, is you really need to have that process, right? If you don't have a good set of knowledge for your human agents, then you're obviously not going to be able to feed the right knowledge to the virtual agents, right? So I think getting organized to make our propellant system, our virtual agent system, really successful for Jerry, also enabled us to pull this information together for our human agents. Okay. And that's been important. 

Speaker 1 (00:28:45) - But I mean, I think ultimately, the key is thinking of this as one system, right? The voice and chat and SMS-based virtual agents have to be viewed as fitting in with your human agents. You have to think about, how do I escalate? Whom do I escalate to? Yeah. So one example of something we built that I think is kind of cool, previously.

Speaker 1 (00:29:14) - We had no way for somebody to be able to schedule a call back. Okay, yeah, talk desk doesn't enable that functionality and which is why I don't, because you need to do this a lot in our type of you know how many times have you called in and and and on it? You you're often given the ability to request it, yeah, but it's always like right now we're the next available, right next about. So the with the propellant system, it's pretty easy. It can already talk to you. So it just, you know, asks you: would you like a call back? What time? 

Speaker 1 (00:29:39) - You know it can I, can I call? Can we call you back now or is there a better time? And if you say a better time, it asks you what day, and then it it triggers and puts you into the callback queue. Yeah, on the day that you need it. So again, another thing that makes it very efficient for for for our team, because they're not calling back or being, you know, on a call. That's a call back, and then the customers not there and they're having to leave a voice message or something. Right, it's just start the whole thing. 

Speaker 1 (00:30:03) - 99% of the time now we're connecting with people when we call them back. So I do think that you know, as you embark on a virtual system, it is imperative that you get a little bit organized. If you're disorganized, I mean most, most operation, seems- are pretty organized operational leaders. That's one of the reasons they get promoted, right. But you got to think about that with your virtual system as well. How does it fit in to this system that you're built? 

Speaker 3 (00:30:31) - How we think about things is: if something doesn't go right, well, first off, you have to have it mapped out on how it is supposed to be time, and if it doesn't go right, you've got to have what we call hope for the best, prepare for the worst. You have to have another backup process. You have to have backup people. That's why, in any particular role, we want at least two people who can do that role. Because that one person's not there, then the whole thing can fall apart. It's a critical failure. 

Speaker 3 (00:30:56) - Even if it's just you, you might think: well, that doesn't apply to me, because I don't have a hundred thousand employees. Well, guess what? You have to learn to replace yourself. 

Speaker 1 (00:31:04) - That's right. 

Speaker 3 (00:31:04) - Yes, I'd ask you: you're listening or watching? How much of your time, how many hours per day are you spending doing things that are repetitive that, really, if you documented it, someone else could do. I'd even ask you, Adrian, right, let's be honest, yeah, your day, well, how many hours per day- are things that, if you had it properly documented, that you could delegate out? 

Speaker 9 (00:31:23) - I didn't touch, maybe, on one challenge that we see a lot at the moment: your customers beginning to use AI... generative AI advancements that have happened that you can now actually relifting. Think about transforming support. People are beginning to realize that this is the challenge that we kind of help our customers with day in. They out like AI is only as good as the knowledge it has access to you. 

Speaker 9 (00:31:45) - I know at the moment, the biggest challenge I think facing a lot of support organizations- how do I have the right knowledge and content available that I can actually make you know, an investment in AI actually work for me? 

Speaker 9 (00:31:58) - Right, because, yeah, it's pretty cool the way that technology works out of the box, but if you don't think about the content and knowledge that I do and how you manage that content, the knowledge, on an ongoing basis, like you're not going to be successful in the long term with AI, and that's probably the biggest challenge we have at the moment in terms of helping our customers really understand how they look at their help center articles, how they think about, you know, generating new knowledge over time, how they incorporate that into our whole kind of AI solution and infrastructure. 

Speaker 9 (00:32:25) - And you know the way I say, you know, I say you gotta be the beat, you gotta feed the AI engine. It's not a static thing, it's not a kind of you know, it's not a one-and-done process like the process of knowledge manager to content manager. I think it's probably the biggest challenge at the moment in the. 

Speaker 5 (00:32:44) - So the interesting thing about process is that processes is sometimes a catch-all term, because there's, I would argue, three like many parts to this process loop. One is culture. Right, oftentimes process is put into place because you're actually trying to enforce a culture, yeah, and. And so the actual better way to do that? 

Speaker 5 (00:33:06) - And and, quite frankly, no process is going to work until you do the following, which is embedded into your behaviors: yeah, right, and so the first thing you got to be thinking about: what is the behaviors or the patterns of behavior that we want to see in this, in this function? It can be about how you interact with your team and your employees, and and so on. 

Speaker 5 (00:33:24) - It can be about how you interact with your customers, it can be about standard operating procedures for you know how you sell, or whatever any part of the business is gonna have the culture that you're trying to create or the behaviors that you're trying to see replicated, and I think it actually starts by doing those things, even before you think about what is the process, you think about what are the things that I got to do regularly in order to get that done. Then step two is, I would say, documentation. 

Speaker 5 (00:33:47) - Right, and so one of the things that the biggest missing steps- and we, you know, we definitely went through this throughout all of our growing pains- is not writing it down, and so I can think about what I think about company culture and like as we scaled from scale. 

Speaker 5 (00:34:01) - about 24 thinkers to over 104 thinkers in about a year's time span throughout the pandemic. One of the things I realized was, hey, if we want to figure out what are the processes that we're going to need and what's the culture we want to build, we got to start writing it down. What are the values, the operating principles? What are the things that we actually do want to see? And literally making that explicit and teaching people and then repeating. And so it was like this process of what is the culture you want to build? What is the process? 

Speaker 5 (00:34:28) - Or what is the documentation? And then the third is I would actually argue, and this is probably good for any scaling business, invest in ops. Whatever ops means, every single function has a version of that ops. So when you think about you're building out your sales team, what is your sales ops team or your revenue ops team looking like? As you're thinking about building out your product, what is your product ops team? And oftentimes it's not a giant 10 or 15 person team, it could be one person. And maybe it's one person across many different fields. 

Speaker 5 (00:34:54) - But if you don't have somebody who's monitoring the process, improving the process, and then building out the tools necessary, you're actually going to find that oftentimes that process goes by the wayside. And so that's when those are probably the ways I would say you can leverage and start investing in building out your process. 

Speaker 3 (00:35:10) - I mean, we definitely had to implement process and really think carefully about it. I think the trigger point sometimes is hiring someone that has done it many times before in whatever area, and they know what the process is. They come in and say, hey, look, this is how we could be improved. And the first time that happens, you feel like, no, we're different. We don't need that. And in fact, I think people that report to me sometimes have a sense that I don't like process. 

Speaker 3 (00:35:40) - And what I always feel is, no, no, on the contrary, I don't like process too early, because it stifles the agility to be able to weave involved and adapt. But I very much think it's completely crucial to scaling. I mean, lack of process prevents you from scaling. And there was certainly times where you needed to come in and really think about scaling. 

Speaker 3 (00:36:01) - And so you needed people that had done it, that know what the process should be, how to set up this team, what are the things we do for a pro QL scenario where we're trying to decide on use cases that aren't standard, and kind of how do we deploy changes, how do we communicate them, kind of that becomes much more process driven. And I think when it's needed, it's absolutely crucial. And I think sometimes it's a bit like a family. If you're three or four people, you need less process. People just communicate abundantly, right? 

Speaker 3 (00:36:33) - But as it scales, without process becomes massive chaos. And so that's something that we see is very, very important. 

Speaker 1 (00:36:41) - And last but not least, the fourth and final CX pillar of feedback. Honestly, guys, over the years, this has become one of my absolute favorite pillars to ask our guests about how they thought about customer feedback, employee feedback, product and service feedback. And just a reminder, this is like the feedback piece is gold, guys, especially for some of our listeners that are starting and growing their businesses. 

Speaker 1 (00:37:03) - Taking that feedback, understanding how to compartmentalize it, and then most importantly, acting upon it is one of the easiest ways that you can really begin to fast forward your business and really step on the gas. In this section, you'll hear from the following guests in this order. First, Morgan J. Ingram, founder and CEO at AMP. You can listen to Morgan's episode at CXCP 196. Next, Nick Francis, founder and CEO at Help Scout, CXCP 163. After that, Steve Cornwell, founder, investor, and SVP at Gainsight. 

Speaker 1 (00:37:42) - You can listen to Steve's episode at CXCP 203. After that, Natalie Onions, Vice President of Customer Experience at Customer IO. You can listen to Natalie at CXCP 190. Followed by Bill Stakos, head of CX at BNY Mellon. You can listen to Bill's thoughts and ideas at CXCP 166. And lastly, Ethan Butte, principal brand marketing strategist at Zillow and doing an incredible show, The Follow-Up Boss. You got to check it out. And you can listen to Ethan's story at CXCP 176. I hope you guys enjoy this section. 

Speaker 4 (00:38:22) - I want to jump into that fourth and final pillar of feedback, man. I'd love to just kind of hear you wrap a little bit about how you sort of thought about customer feedback in your own personal customer-focused business leader journey. And I definitely want to hear you talk about how you've always levered and acted upon some of your teammates or your employee feedback as you get deeper and deeper into your career. 

Speaker 5 (00:38:42) - Let's go into the customer feedback.

Speaker 5 (00:38:48) - So I probably said the same pitch like a hundred times in the past, like three to four weeks. I'm like here's a like in. You know, at some point you got to say you have to keep it same energy because you got to deliver it the same. And I look for what the feedback is. So if, consistently, I hear like the same two or three things, I'm like I need to focus there. This is what I need to keep saying: yeah, this is working. Yep, or I'll get like: hey, this one outlier thing in our scenario is this. And then I'm like that's an outlier. 

Speaker 5 (00:39:16) - So some people might be like this makes sense, but in our scenario we're a unique business and we have this going on. Yeah, good feedback, but it's probably not helpful because it's it's an outlier, so that's not gonna help you scale right, yeah, but it's helpful, but it won't be scale. So what I do in looking for customer feedback is: what are what excited you? Based on what I said? I'm doubling and tripling down there. 

Speaker 5 (00:39:38) - What are some things I said that like maybe wasn't relevant to you, maybe I need to throw those out because it's over complicating the message? And then, what are some things that you heard that like maybe you need more clarification and there's a gap. So then when I'm talking to customers, I'm just figuring out we'll get some excited because that's part of the service or product. 

Speaker 5 (00:39:55) - I need to figure out how to articulate better or hyper focus on- and I will know I'll have better answers the next six months as I deliver certain things and, I'm sure, more tighter but in terms of the pre- let's say pre conception, pre acquisition- those are things that I've learned. 

Speaker 3 (00:40:11) - So, from a customer feedback standpoint, there's a few different ways that we try to hear the voice of the customer. One is a monthly. So one of the challenges that I've noticed that get various points in time in our business we've sort of over rotated on what our current customers need rather than what the go-to-market sort of is demanding like, what are the customers that we're losing need? Yeah, and so creating a venue where not only we're hearing what the market needs but we are making sure that our customer support function. 

Speaker 3 (00:40:45) - The people that are on the front lines talking with folks every day are aware of what the what are what the customers were losing need in the market as well, because really they're hearing from our current customers all loud and clear: right. They're getting a lot of requests from current customers, and if they're not aware of the broader view of what we need to compete in the market and gain market share, then it's so easy for them to get frustrated. 

Speaker 3 (00:41:11) - So easy to get frustrated why aren't they working on the things that I hear every day from this group of customers? So give, give the support team, but one way I we talk about elevating them. One way to do so is that give them access to the broad range of feedback that's coming in across the business. Customer supports only one input. We're getting it from sales, we're getting it from marketing, we're getting it from other stakeholders in the company as well, and so there's a monthly customer experience sync that has all those stakeholders in the room. 

Speaker 3 (00:41:43) - Every single department puts together a document that's like a pre-read for the meeting and we get a good sense of what's the pulse across each and every one of those, and then our customer or experience or a leader who leads product design and engineering. She walks through each of those documents and then talks more about the roadmap, and just everybody has at least. Our goal is to give everybody a full picture view of what we need to be successful as a company, and that's that's just a big part of it. And then I mentioned this. 

Speaker 3 (00:42:16) - The second piece for us that's really important from a feedback standpoint is, yeah, making sure that we have people embedded on our product teams. Customers, yeah, so every one of our product teams has an embedded person that actually reports up through the support function and they'll take on the really advanced triage type stuff, but they're also working hand-in-hand with the product project manager to create products that we know are going to land with our customer base. 

Speaker 3 (00:42:48) - So, truly, we have support embedded in the development, the discovery and development process as well, which which really creates a beautiful feedback loop among the team. So, if, if support team is like, why is this thing not being built? They can go straight to the product expert associated with that and that person will give them the full context and say, hey, we're working on it. This is a. This is a really challenging thing. It's gonna take a few more months. 

Speaker 3 (00:43:13) - One of our core operating principles at North fast was this concept of this value of choose speed, and what this really embodies is just that: that we believe that progress beats perfection and that you should ship early and often way before you're ready to absolutely, and the reason for that is because we think that time to feedback: the shorter you can compress your time to feedback, the better. 

Speaker 10 (00:43:43) - That's what we're trying to do. 

Speaker 3 (00:43:43) - Yep. And I think that's really important in from a customer point of view, because that's how you that's how you that's how you ultimately just get to a place where the customer is is thrilled. And that can be with your product that can be with a process that can be with a piece of content. 

Speaker 10 (00:44:02) - Yep. 

Speaker 3 (00:44:03) - It can be with a meeting agenda. It's it's really just a mindset of iteration and progress. So because we embrace that value of choosing speed, we, we were able to get feedback very fast. And I think it really helped us and continues to help us. So I think the first thing that companies need to do if they want to have a good, reliable, honest feedback loop from employees is they need to create the culture that's safe. Yep, that's open. And that rewards direct people going direct and and being open and very candid and transparent. 

Speaker 3 (00:44:44) - And boy, it's just amazing how much nonsense you can avoid and how fast you can move when when employees feel safe when when they when they not only feel safe, but they're motivated to go direct, they're motivated to be candid. So I think that's step one is leaders have to create the environment. 

Speaker 3 (00:45:01) - And step two, I think layers on some of the process, which is having making sure that a couple times a year you do have a standing review period where you're going over certain points, you're going you're tracking back against job descriptions, you're talking about how progress is happening, you're looking forward against career opportunities, and you're tracking towards that. And you're really investing. 

Speaker 3 (00:45:29) - The employees are investing time and thinking about what they want to do, how they can get better writing that down, expressing that more formally, and management teams can can do the same. And, and that can come together and create really great outcomes for people and the business. 

Speaker 8 (00:45:47) - I think it's, it's really, it's really great and almost goes without saying that the the CX department is has to be ready to listen to that feedback. And, you know, have have a good way of making it actionable. But it's, it gets its value and it gets its traction when you create really strong feedback loops to the rest of the business. 

Speaker 8 (00:46:14) - Because, essentially, you know, the products and engineering teams, I value the relationships that that my team has, and that I have with the leaders on products and engineering so much, because they are completely open and so grateful for what I can, when I put my team in the same room as them and say, right, we're going to advocate for what we know our customers want. So sharing that feedback, well, firstly, hearing that feedback, incredibly important, of course, but what you do with it afterwards, that's really where the magic happens. 

Speaker 8 (00:46:54) - And it is so worth your time, and the investment in the relationship with the people in the company to make that good, to make it solid, so that you have got those people to lean on. And that could change the future of your business, of your product. And, you know, that's what the product team is trying to do. They're trying to build something they know our customers want, and they know the market is looking for. So I just I can't emphasize enough, just make them your best friends. 

Speaker 5 (00:47:25) - You know, it's act on the feedback at the end of the day. So like, you know, people come to me and say, like, Hey, I want to even after this podcast, I'm talking to someone about someone who's like NPS system isn't working the way that they wanted to. And I might I can guarantee you, they're not acting on the feedback as a business right in the right way. Without even knowing what the problem is. 

Speaker 10 (00:47:45) - Yeah. 

Speaker 5 (00:47:46) - So I think acting on feedback is really important, whether that's employees, whether that's customers, number one. Number two is, I think feedback, like direct feedback through a survey, or someone's taking notes somewhere, and it's captured in Salesforce, and you're analyzing that feedback. I think that today, as we talk a lot about signals at Medallia, right? And a signal is a survey for sure. But a signal is also someone on social media saying, this was a great experience, or this was a poor experience. And here's why. 

Speaker 5 (00:48:15) - Financial data are signals, operational data, another signal, etc. Being able to piece those signals through the journey is now really where the work is going. Because only then can you then get away from, I've got my six personas, and I'm going to kind of design towards those six, and really start to drive towards personalization at scale. And again, that's very action oriented and driven. 

Speaker 5 (00:48:41) - So how do I change the experience, while a customer is going through it, using technology to automate and automate that process to keep them down sort of that path, whereas a business, we achieve our goals, but we also make the experience better for that customer. I'll give you a real example. You want to go get a new mortgage, you want to go refi your mortgage, okay? A lot of people are doing that today, given where rates are, everyone's kind of rushing to refi, or even buy homes. 

Speaker 3 (00:49:10) - Yep. 

Speaker 5 (00:49:10) - You go to a bank's website.

Speaker 5 (00:49:13) - And you go to the mortgage site and you look at a rate and you're like, well, I'm not paying that rate. And you bounce out. And maybe that's your bank. Maybe you go into your checking and savings, look at balances. Journey orchestration is about surfacing a new rate because that platform understands who you are and understands that you dropped out because that rate wasn't sufficient enough. So they might surface a lower rate for you that makes you click and makes you go down that mortgage journey path. So the business achieves its goals. 

Speaker 5 (00:49:44) - You get actually a better experience because you're able to accomplish a task that you went to that site to do. And everybody wins. And I think being able to think about how do I act in different ways, not just in, I've got survey feedback, I'm going to give it to the banker down in the branch and they can go make a change at some point. 

Speaker 5 (00:50:02) - That's also important, but really at scale, understanding how do we act in different ways through the doors that our customers come through every day, whether that's the contact center, in-app, branch, whatever that might be. 

Speaker 7 (00:50:15) - I'll give you something that our team does. And then I'll give you something that I do personally, all related to feedback. So the philosophy is, we all have all of this data coming in, product usage data, feedback, satisfaction, worries, and make sure that are supported by the data and share them. So it's an ongoing conversation. 

Speaker 7 (00:50:34) - Let's just set that aside for a minute and say, that's, you've probably had that conversation a number of, the big piece I want to add to that is that so often we lose sight of, or we don't have the patience or don't make the time for the literal voice of the customer. 

Speaker 7 (00:50:50) - And by that, I mean, the words that they're using, the context they're using them in direct conversations, recorded videos, like the elements that really color in the picture in great detail and with the right shading and the right specifics, the type of thing that can create empathy inside your organization. 

Speaker 7 (00:51:10) - So anyone that's doing direct customer communication, the more you can share that with the rest of your team and the more you can harness and distribute and share and talk about the literal voice of the customer, not X percent of people do this, Y number of times every Z period of time, right? That's all good. But like the literal voice of the customer, how do they feel? How do they think? How do they express it? And all that. So just an emphasis on the literal voice of the customer is one thing I want to raise. 

Speaker 7 (00:51:40) - Something that we do as a company, every Tuesday, we do a longer senior leadership team meeting. And one round in that is always employee feedback and customer feedback. What are we hearing? And so that's when we bring up something like the loop VOC dashboard. That's where we hear about, you know, some of the positive feedback. That's where we share the literal voice of the customer. And so we make space for this in our senior leadership team meetings every week for what are we hearing from employees? What are we hearing from customers? 

Speaker 7 (00:52:10) - And then oftentimes, that'll wind up with parking lot conversations that in the back half of that longer meeting, where we spend 15 to 45 minutes really getting into a topic. That's where some of those topics come up. So that's one thing that we do every week. 

Speaker 1 (00:52:25) - So I hope you guys enjoyed today's show. Again, just thank you so much to each and every one of you that has been following CXC and supporting CXC. It's been an incredible journey. And I can't wait for what's next. We have a huge, huge roadmap for 2025. You know, reminder for everyone that's listening right now, moving forward, we are literally focused on continuing to make the very best customer focused, customer centric content that we can for not only all of you, but for our strategic partners. 

Speaker 1 (00:52:59) - Second of all, we have built a stable of incredible strategic partners to help you think about how you can master your CX and your CS game. Do not hesitate to reach out to us if you're interested in learning about some of the partners that we're working with HubSpot, Intercom, Zendesk, Freshworks, and a variety of other incredible partners that can really take your CX game to the next level. And then lastly, our services, right? 

Speaker 1 (00:53:28) - We've worked with over 100 companies across the world, helping them think about how they can optimize the 4C Explorers in their business. And, you know, we really can't wait for 2025 to keep doing more and more and more of that. Do not hesitate to reach out to us if there's anything that we can help with. And remember, keep checking back in on CXChronicles.com. Keep checking out our social channels at CXC. And as always, guys, don't forget, make happiness a habit.