BBR #180: The Art of Transformation with Former Forensic Psychologist Allison Guilbault

Have you ever felt the ground shift beneath you, not from an earthquake, but from an internal revelation? This is the journey Allison Guilbault, licensed therapist and mindset coach, walks us through—a journey marked by resilience, dedication, and a profound shift from the high-stakes world of forensic psychology to the empowering realm of  coaching women toward self-liberation. 

Allison's story is a vivid illustration of the power held in personal choice, an invaluable blueprint for anyone on the precipice of their own transformative leap.

Embarking on a career in a male-dominated field like the FBI can be a daunting venture, but as Allison reveals, the lessons learned and skills honed can become treasured assets in the seemingly disparate field of mental health care. 

Detail orientation and the art of inquiry are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to transferable skills that Allison has seamlessly woven into her therapy practice. This episode peels back the layers on how embracing adaptability, shattering limiting beliefs, and harnessing one's diverse background can propel us forward, not just professionally but personally. 

Allison steers us into the heart of self-advocacy, confidence, and the complex dance between anxiety and self-assurance. Through her own narrative and the stories of those she's coached, Alison illuminates the importance of setting boundaries, shedding shame, and cultivating a sense of worth that is impervious to societal pressures. 

Get in there and give it a listen for more! 

Connect with Allison: 

Website URL
www.anotefromyourtherapist.com

Social media
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/anotefromtherapy

Instagram
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YouTube
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Linkedin
https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-guilbault-17730065

Twitter
https://twitter.com/atherapynote

Tik Tok
https://www.tiktok.com/@anotefromyourtherapist

Pintrest
https://www.pinterest.com/anotefromyourtherapist/

Threads
https://www.threads.net/@anotefromyourtherapist

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Brain Body Resilience Podcast. I'm your host, JPB, and today we have a very special guest, Allison Jebeau. Did I say that right? Yeah, totally Okay, great. Allison is a licensed therapist, international speaker and mindset and self-worth coach, specializing in anxiety, trauma and sex and intimacy, who is on a mission to help women let go of shame and limiting beliefs so that they can reconnect to their confidence and empowerment and live their most unstoppable life. And if you have been here for any amount of time, you know that these are all things that we talk about. This is right up my alley and I'm super excited for this conversation. So, Allison, thank you for being here.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:51

I would love to know just some background. To start off with, what led you to this work. It's so important, I think, not only for women, but I think also specifically for women. In a lot of ways. These are such important things to cover and a lot of things that we don't talk about very often. I think that's changing, but what was it that that led you to this?

Speaker 2: 1:17

Yeah, my, my resume has been a bit, a little bit all over the place, and so I'm almost a bit surprised I've landed where I've landed. When I was younger, like, let's say, high school and, honestly, even below that, I was always obsessed with sort of like true crime, svu type stuff, and that was, this was like the 90s, so it was a bit before, you know, we had all of these TV shows that really like gave us the archetype. So when I went to college, I was really, really interested in learning about forensic psychology and particularly working with, you know, people convicted of homicide, which was not a happy thought for my mother, but you know. So I looked for a program in forensics and in 1999, believe it or not- there was only like two in the world.

Speaker 2: 2:08

So I ended up not pursuing that path because I just needed to pick like a more generic psychology background. And when I went to NYU and I was so interested in some of the classes that they offered, which at the time was called women's studies, now more appropriately it's called gender studies but I took so many classes and ended up becoming my double major right. So I was taking class on women empowerment and I even took a class on like pornography and sexuality among women and it really just like tickles my fancy. I was just really super interested in it. And when I went to my master's degree I actually did move into the forensic field and I worked for the FBI a while and I took a job working at a hospital in New York City emergency room where I would be one of the first responders so I'm not a medical professional but from the mental health point of view of someone who is being admitted into the emergency room in the aftermath of either a sexual assault or a domestic violence incident and so that's sort of where I got my first taste of really not only working with women, but women who really needed, and obviously anybody can, you know, be a survivor of sexual assault and or domestic violence, but women who really needed and obviously anybody can, you know, be a survivor of sexual assault and or domestic violence but it just so happened, coincidentally, most of the people I saw happened to be women. So, you know, I really got a sense of you know what it feels like to show up for someone when they're in some of their toughest moments, and understanding that sometimes that meant talking to them right, sometimes it meant advocating for them, and sometimes it meant doing absolutely nothing at all and just being sort of like a quiet presence. And I really, really, really loved that job, as hard as it was. You know, I wish there wasn't a need for it, but there is.

Speaker 2: 4:02

And then after that, I took a giant turn in a different direction and I actually became a private investigator and I did that for about eight years and I climbed myself up a corporate ladder. I was working with a really high paying firm and I just had that very cliche moment in my life where, about eight years in, I was sitting in a meeting, my boss was being a terrible person, as he often was, and I was thinking to myself like what am I doing? Like this is I'm hustling all the time, I'm working, overworking, right, I'm like coming in early, staying late, doing all that like grinds, and I'm really not happy where I am. And part of the speech that I give to a lot of the clients that I work for is, you know, we have the ability to change our life in really profound ways and a lot of where we end up is decisions that we've made and that can feel extremely scary, but it's actually quite liberating extremely scary but it's actually quite liberating. And you know that day after the meeting I ran to my therapist. It was like I need to do something about my life and she said something that changed my life, which is just like you know, you can quit, and that hadn't been an option in my brain up until then. And you know, when I tell this story it's always really important to preface it that like I didn't have a plan and I had just come off of an NYU education, I had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of student debt. I don't have a lot of finance. I don't have any financial support for my parents. I grew up, you know, struggling from a single mom household and the reason that I share that part of my story is because I don't want people to think, you know, that those circumstances make it harder, for sure, like that's a true scenario, but I don't want people to think it's impossible.

Speaker 2: 5:49

So what happened next is I had to go back to school. I decided I wanted to be a therapist and I had to go back to school because my the degree I had gotten 10 years earlier didn't count anymore. And when I went back to school the second time, I really focused on modalities of therapy, how to help people through trauma and anxiety, and I actually took I decided that the second go round. I wanted to kind of flip to the other side and I took a job working with offenders rather than survivors, and so I worked in Rikers Island, which is a pretty infamous jail in New York City, in solitary confinement, and I did that, which got me quite a viewpoint of how trauma affects the brain, right and just. It was an eye-opening experience in so much that I really started to believe that when we're given proper support and guidance, we do better, period. And I just really started to strongly, strongly believe and make it sort of a huge soapbox item for me, that everyone does better with support. And how can we create that out in the world? And then this is where I joke that I sold out.

Speaker 2: 7:10

After that I moved to Sri Lanka for two months to work with the National Institute of Mental Health there, but then when I came home I was like enough with all this trauma work, I'm just going to go to private practice, move to New Jersey and, like, have a little bit more of a cushy life.

Speaker 2: 7:27

And that experience working in private practice actually I think is the biggest I don't know change of all of these things in my resume in so much as you know, I kind of had this coined, misunderstanding that the people who needed the support were always people that were in Rikers Island in an emergency room, right, having these very intense lifestyles and, and you know, events.

Speaker 2: 7:58

And what I started to learn is everybody doesn't matter who you are right, everybody does better with support. So many doesn't matter who you are right, everybody does better with support. So many of us have missed memos on how to build confidence, how to feel empowered, how to show up for ourselves, taking control for ourselves. And just by the nature of where I was working, I started heavily working with women and I just loved it. So, of all the things I've done sitting with women, I particularly work with kind of the type of woman who, um, who's really overworked, right, maybe they have a job, maybe they have kids, maybe they have both, but they're working really, really hard and just don't feel like they're enough. Um, and that is now sort of who I speak to the most, because you are enough and.

Speaker 2: 8:48

I want you to know that. So yeah, that's my, that's my long history of how I got to where I am today.

Speaker 1: 8:57

There's. There's so much in there. Um, oh, my goodness. Okay, I have so many questions. First, what was it like in the FBI as a woman?

Speaker 2: 9:10

You know. You know I've never actually had anybody asked me that. So I was a, I worked as like an analyst, basically, and I was. I wasn't, it wasn't a position that I was taking specifically with the FBI. I was working in a joint juncture between my school and the FBI, right. So, basically, everything a upcoming agent is learning, I was learning, but when, now that you've asked that question, I think I was man. I mean, maybe I think there was one other female in our entire program and I'm just now having a little bit of a flashback of I presented my thesis to a national conference which was all FBI agents and if I'm thinking back to that experience now I don't actually know that there were many women in the audience.

Speaker 2: 10:05

I'm fortunate. I, you know, worked. I guess fortunate is maybe not the right word, but in my personal experience I didn't have, because it was so research-based. I worked a lot by myself and then submitted my reports. So I don't think I had the most traditional experience, but I would imagine that you know, it is not an easy feat to be a woman in the FBI, right, I know. You know I'm friends with and know a lot of, plenty of female NYPD and that's always, you know, a bit of a challenge, right To be in such like a male dominated career choice, right, it's like yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:43

Yeah, with an interesting power dynamic. So that was I was curious.

Speaker 1: 10:50

Yeah, thank you, um, do you think that I think it's so fascinating that you were a private investigator? I think I think that's really cool. Um, do you think that that it's a different, different type? But I see, like you're being in research and then being a private investigator and then going into the type of mental health care that you chose to do is all kind of trying to figure things out and I think that's not quite the right wording when you're working with people. But knowing how to ask the right questions, knowing kind of how to where to go with that, and getting curious and trying to kind of discover things, do you think that those experiences contributed to your skill set?

Speaker 2: 11:50

For sure, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 11:52

I, you know, I sort of have this story which is very common for someone who's in like healing type work, right, like the unhealed sort of become the healers.

Speaker 2: 12:02

So a lot of my own story is birthed in my own anxieties and it's something that I teach clients that I have sort of a propensity for hypervigilance, right, like I'm extremely detail oriented, I pick up on very subtle cues, and that got me in a lot of trouble in sort of my personal life.

Speaker 2: 12:23

Right, like I don't want to be the person walking into a party and like hyper, focusing on what everyone else is doing, how they're relating to me. But so I always say, like we're going to find the things that are triggering for us sometimes and appropriate them because they're not always inherently wrong, right. And so I kind of found a funnel for taking the skill set that I had of just being so sensitive to details and it's showed up, you know, really well, in both of my career choices, right, certainly as an investigator, but yeah, even as a therapist I mean, you are sort of an investigator, you're an emotional investigator, right. But getting to like, hey, what's happening here? What's the thing? Maybe we're not saying what's the thing we have to be curious about. Um yeah, there's definitely a strong parallel there, for sure.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Exactly, yeah, and that's what I was. I was, I was wondering, I think that's um, I love. I love that you you take the time to kind of lay out the long history and kind of what got you here, just in the way that you have so many different experiences that led you here, and I think it's really important for people to know especially I also work mostly with women. I think it's important that we know that it's never too late to change and you can try on as many hats as you want, and sometimes that that general knowledge and experience that that you gain from having so many different um inputs and and um building your skillset is so much more beneficial than going in depth and knowing a lot about a little. And I say that just in the way that I think we have this idea that I work in academia and the idea that, like, having a very specialized understanding is somehow greater than having, like a wide understanding of of the people that you work with, the world, how it works in different different areas. So I appreciate just the example of that and the example of you know what is possible given any kind of growing up situation.

Speaker 1: 14:42

Um, I, I resonate with all the things you're saying so much. I was also raised in a single mom household and from low socioeconomic status, um, and I think there's an idea, especially with with that kind of inherited trauma, the lived experiences of what is possible for you, yeah, and so I appreciate that you share that, because I think it's necessary. There are so many, so many adults, especially of of our generation, who don't know it's okay to talk about that and so we don't hear about it, and I think those stories are necessary.

Speaker 2: 15:26

Yeah, I mean absolutely. And you know, something that has been a bit of a wake up call for me is there's so many people out there, particularly the clients, that I see that I, I think, gets stuck in what I call limiting beliefs, right. And one of the main limiting beliefs that I have seen is that if we change our mind on something, for instance, like a big career but it can even be a relationship it can be a place where you wanna live that we've somehow failed right.

Speaker 2: 15:56

That like we're supposed to pick this one path and if it doesn't at some point mean our needs, well, we did it wrong. Right, we should have known better. And I have really stayed flexible and it's a huge part of, like, my mission statement, which is just like, look, we don't know what we don't know until we know it, you know like, that's just how it is. So sometimes we have to try something and find out we don't like it, to then get the information that it's okay to pivot, and I really, you know I use the word liberation a lot and I just think you know, so often people are just kind of putting themselves in the fortress in which they've made for themselves and it's like you can walk out the door right. And and that is not there's no part of me when I say that that's minimizing to how difficult that can be right If someone's leaving any of those things a relationship, a town, a career those are all going to be hard, especially when you know we're all adulting, right, we have mortgages or rents, we have responsibilities, we have friends.

Speaker 2: 16:55

But you know, I have a client who her like tagline is pick your hard, and I've just always thought that that's a really brilliant reframe of life. It's like, hey, maybe the thing you're doing is also hard, right, so the walking away of the thing might be hard, but we don't have an easy choice here. So, but if we look at the long game, how can you support your own well-being, your own passion, your own goals? So, yeah, I love, and I think you know you're right I didn't hear a lot of those stories about people changing their minds and you know, often you get like, oh, so wishy washy, you're not committed, and I don't think that I could do any of the work that I do now If I hadn't had a collection of all those experiences period.

Speaker 1: 17:40

Yeah, absolutely. I really love that. You mentioned quitting. I also, growing up, was it was just not okay. It was not okay to quit, it wasn't an option.

Speaker 1: 17:51

Being a quitter was a terrible thing, and at some point I heard something along the line about quit everything you can as soon as you can, because finding out what you know, what you don't want, is just as valuable, and then go ahead and put that down because you don't want it, and I think that that is uh, yeah, that pick your heart is do you want to hold tight to this thing because you don't think you can let it go, because there's a story around what it means if you do? Do you want to live in that space or have the discomfort and the challenges of really trying to find out what it is that I want, how to take care of myself better, how to find my joy, how to shed all of the layers of the stories that I have, those limiting beliefs? Yeah, and and I I love that, because knowing it's okay to quit and knowing you have autonomy like I can I can quit this. I have a choice is so powerful yes, it really is.

Speaker 2: 19:02

And you know, I I spend a lot of time talking about empowerment, right, and it's like, but that is it, right, like empowerment, isn't this just like vague idea? It's like sort of taking back the control of your life, right, and just again, recognizing that you have the power to pivot, you have the power to change your mind. I was, I was talking to like the terminology of sort of permissions and it's like so, something that I've said to myself. I used to have a post-it note. It just said I give myself permission to change my mind.

Speaker 1: 19:28

Right.

Speaker 2: 19:28

Like you know, that's it. And I think you know we don't. We don't think that should be just like a common duh moment, and it's not. It actually feels sort of radical and none of us really have that many skills particularly women don't really have a lot of skills around that. Right, like you know, you and I both would use similar words. I heard you say like sit in the discomfort of it. I would.

Speaker 2: 19:50

You know, I use that term all the time, but it's like you know, when I say that to people, a lot of the times we, we don't even know what. Like what does that mean? Right? And it's like hey, what, what does it mean? It means that you're going to do something that's hard and it's going to feel hard until it doesn't anymore, right, it's just like anything, you know you go to the gym. It's uncomfortable at first, right, but over time, a year later, you're like oh yeah, I can totally bench press that. No big deal, right. And so you know, I think we don't apply that enough to life changes, right, I think we don't apply that enough to life changes, right.

Speaker 2: 20:29

Like one of my, my anti anxiety mantras has always been like I can do tough things, and you know that is true. Right, like I have two master's degrees, I put myself through school. I lived in New York City, which is not. You know, there's a reason that we have the you know the idea of. It's a difficult place to live. And yet when I was like, oh, I can quit my job, that's the thing that kind of stopped me in my tracks and made me think, you know, can I do this? And yeah, I can. I can do tough things.

Speaker 1: 21:00

Again. So I am so appreciative of all of these things that you're saying. I have all of these thoughts coming in. You know, sometimes it is just as simple as I can do hard things just like aren't going to work because it takes some like giant process or giant transformation, and it is just those little things along the way that we, that we tell ourselves that we shift our perspective on the things that we learn, the things that we do that are hard. Who that you know, give us that reference point of oh, I actually can do hard things, like I did this thing and I am still here alive, and I think that you know.

Speaker 1: 21:48

You spoke to how women don't have those tools, because the way that we're socialized in you know to be small and quiet and consuming and riddled with self-doubt and riddled with self-doubt and we don't learn how to do that, we don't learn how to self-regulate, we don't learn that community heals. I think culturally we just don't have a lot of that here in the States, but especially for women, I think those are such important things to learn. And you've mentioned the word empowerment a couple of times, which I have a complicated relationship with just in the way that in this kind of current um, um. I also don't like the word wellness space because I think they these kinds of terms have been just like overused and and misrepresented and in a lot of cases that's not actually what's happening or what it means. And so do you run into any of that with with empowerment, just like the people's kind of ideas of what that is or what that's going to be.

Speaker 2: 23:05

Yeah, you know, the way that I would describe empowerment is pretty simple. It's just the idea that you have control over your own life, right, wrong or otherwise. Right, we are making a series of decisions based on the cards we've been dealt right. There's some things that we can't change about our lives, but but a huge part of it we can. But, yes, I don't have such a snag on the word empowerment, but I definitely hear what you're saying. I always feel that way about, like the word self-care, right?

Speaker 1: 23:33

It's just like well.

Speaker 2: 23:34

I'm averaging mindfulness. Right, like I love mindfulness, I practice mindfulness in my life, but I think it's just had like the wrong connotation. So where I miss here empowerment is almost someone who thinks like empowerment means entitlement right Like serve these things.

Speaker 2: 23:50

And that isn't empowered, right. Empowered is really looking at your responses to things and adjusting as they come. And you know I always especially in, you know, traditional therapy I'm always saying to someone like, look, we can't change anyone else's response in the world, whether we're talking about your boss, your partner, your best friend, whatever. But you do have the power to control your response. My response is my responsibility and that is where my power lies. And I don't think that when we talk about empowerment, that's often the message that's pitched.

Speaker 1: 24:25

Yeah and I yes response, and that as having responsibility is our ability to respond in a way that we own, in a way that we know is ours. Um, as opposed to looking outward at what are you doing and focusing that on our choice? You've mentioned decisions a couple of times. I'm interested to know if you have experiences with the women that you work with where maybe they're not ready to own their decisions or ready to explore that a little bit.

Speaker 2: 25:10

Yeah, you know. So back to sort of my resume. My first like very potent experience was, you know that that ER job, and particularly with the survivors of domestic assault, and something that was really heavily implanted in my training was, you know, if someone has felt their power been taken away from them, they're not going to knee jerk, react to, oh, I suddenly have power. There's going to be a really slow learning skill building around it, and so I think I'm very fortunate that I had that job first, and I think that was just like. So heavily has filtered how I do therapy now.

Speaker 2: 25:53

And I think part of empowerment is I can't feed it to you, right, like you have to have the aha moment yourself. And you know, depending on someone's circumstances, that can be a tough sell, right, like? And so much of it is just saying like, look, I know that it might theoretically feel easier saying, but if my, only my husband just changed, we would have a better relationship, right, but then even on sort of that like lighter level, right, we're not talking about trauma necessarily, but just like, but then where is your control? You don't have any. So so much of it is like me feeding back to them.

Speaker 2: 26:31

You know like but what would it feel like if you took control over this and I got a ton of resistance for all sorts of reasons? Right, even in just like that example, someone would be like so I have to do all the work, and it's it's sort of like you don't have, we don't want you to do all the work, right, but that's the only, that's the only place you can drive. You can't drive in the passenger seat, right? So you know, as you change the way that you're approaching your relationships, the world, your outlook on life, other people are going to change around you and you're going to get information right. If you suddenly start advocating to your partner about what you need, that does not mean that they will suddenly meet your needs.

Speaker 2: 27:09

But you have learned how to advocate for yourself and now you have more information. Do you need to advocate further? Maybe you need to pick a new partner? Maybe you need to adjust your expectations right, like there is room and options and you get to pick which option feels right for you. But yeah, like that is. But yeah, there's a lot of, there's a ton of resistance on. I'm going to take the reins and run. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:34

Well, I think you know you mentioned normal. When you're working with or I guess normal is the word that I use uh, working with offenders and thinking about these, these big like trauma situations, and I think that we have this idea, uh, because of, I think are still are highly stigmatized. Uh, you know ideas about mental health in general, that trauma is something it's war, war, it's domestic violence, it's sexual abuse, it's things like that, when those aren't the only forms of trauma, when trauma comes from just your system not being able to process in that moment, that can look like a lot of different things. And so, you know, it's not just those big pieces where we learn that kind of that, that learned helplessness that we are, you know we don't understand that we have that agency that we can make those decisions for ourselves and set boundaries, um, and that boundaries are actually, you know, for us and not rules for other people to live by. And so, yeah, I think that is that's just.

Speaker 1: 28:49

That sense of agency is so huge Knowing that that is a possibility, if that's not something that you have, you know, lived with or explored or had a lived understanding of before, absolutely, yeah, I very much appreciate that. So I want to ask more about how you work with women and I know that that looks different across every individual, bringing you know their lived experiences in, but I guess what is? Is there kind of a most common theme? Um, that you see?

Speaker 2: 29:32

Yeah, you know. So, like how I run my practice, I quote unquote specialize in anxiety, trauma, sex and intimacy, and then I do private coaching and the therapy and the coaching is different, because therapy we go back in our past, we look for patterns, we sort of, you know, try to heal things, and the coaching is more very like solution focused. It's very forward moving and so, even though I have these two very different pillars, and then even inside of those pillars I do therapy quite differently depending on what the presenting problem is, there's still a through line and ultimately, as simply as I can put it, it's just I am not enough. I'm in the middle of writing a book that I hope is going to be coming out soon and my book spoiler alert is entitled yes, I Am Too Much, and it was. It came out of my own story where I was really working on a lot of boundaries and a lot of self-advocacy. I was really changing my expectations in my relationships and my friendships and my jobs and sort of the message that I was receiving back which you know directly came out of my husband's mouth but more subtly came out of pretty much anyone's mouth was like Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're being too much and I went to go have a drink with a friend of mine and she was like, well, there's the title of your book. Because, yeah, I. I had yelled back like yes, I am too much and I'm proud of it, and I like walked out the door, um, and I have noticed now in the work, now that that's like at the forefront of my brain, um, it shows up everywhere, right, like again, particularly with women that you know they. I love what you said, like we're taught to be small, right. So something I say is like, take up space without apology, and I always give this little story.

Speaker 2: 31:33

But there was one day I did sort of like a little social experiment. I was still in private practice in person, so I was seeing the humans face to face and every single person who came into my office that day I just said some compliments, didn't matter what it was I love your hair, sally, cute sweater, jenny. Right, nice shoes, jack. And the men all said thank you and the women all minimize the compliment, right, like oh, my God, I haven't gotten my roots done in so long. Like, oh, these shoes, oh God, these are my sisters. And it was just such a powerful reminder to me that like we don't know how to take up space and we do apologize for things often.

Speaker 2: 32:11

And something else I've noticed is there's sort of this understanding from women particularly, that if we are confident, we're egotistical, right. So I'll say something to like a client. Just be like hey, what are you really proud of? And it's like you look beautiful today. Just say I'm beautiful. It's like, oh no, that's so rude, it's so condescending, it's so narcissistic.

Speaker 2: 32:36

And I'm always saying like, look, when we're being narcissistic or condescending, that's putting someone else down. Liking yourself isn't putting someone else down. I can say I am smart, I am successful, I am amazing, and so are you right, and so you know. The original question is sort of like what's the commonality here? That's to me the commonality is just the constant sort of reduction of one's self for fear of rejection, being judged, and I really just want to shift that right. Like I have a huge, huge soapbox item where I just feel like, actually, if we all show up and take up space confidently, we, the world, the system becomes better, right, we don't have to make ourselves smaller constantly. That's good for no one. So so yeah, there, you, there it is.

Speaker 1: 33:32

I mean, I w I could argue that it's good for the power systems, that that taught us that, but definitely not good for those of us practicing it. The too much uh brought me back to something you said in the beginning, where you were just uh, so concerned about what everyone else was was thinking and and everyone else's kind of perception of you and I I know that very well. Um, and I, and I think that is something that most of us are highly aware of and the difference between the men and women. A short story of me here I work in an office where I am the only woman and we were in a meeting one day and there were some cookies and drinks.

Speaker 1: 34:19

And we were in a meeting one day and we had there were like some cookies and drinks and I was so aware of myself and like, am I going to have crumbs? How am I eating this? You know, am I slurping this? Can, am I? What do my pants look like? As I like stand up and reach for this cookie, am I? How am I sitting? How am I just so aware of myself? And I looked around at my colleagues and they have crumbs on their shirts and they're chewing loudly and they are just taking up so much space with not a thought in their head about it. I'm making that story up because I don't know, but I assume from our culture and their expression of it.

Speaker 1: 35:02

So that really stood out to me, just that difference between how we, as women, tend to approach things and minimize and we're so aware of ourselves because that's what we've learned again to be small and and that scarcity piece of like, if I own myself and I own my power and I compliment myself and I acknowledge myself, then there isn't, then that means there's not enough for you, or that I'm that takes away from from you also sharing those things. Yes, yeah, yeah, I think that's such an interesting piece. I think of anxiety a lot as our you know, underestimation of our ability to deal with the outcome and the overestimation of what that is the danger involved in that, absolutely. And so how do you see? Like what's? What are your thoughts on? On the correlation between confidence, high confidence and anxiety, or low confidence?

Speaker 2: 36:10

and anxiety. Yeah, I mean, I think they go hand in hand. You know, someone with anxiety often has low confidence, and I see, sort of as we pivot up confidence, the anxiety starts to reduce. And you know, something that is that has only come to my attention really almost in the last few weeks, even though I do so much of this work is sort of the misunderstanding of what confidence is, and so, like I'll give an example. I was talking to someone on a personal note and they were like you know, I'm gonna feel better when I lose weight. And then, like a few minutes later, they're like you know, I'm gonna feel better when I lose weight. And then, like a few minutes later, they're like you know, I'm gonna feel better at my job when I get that promotion. And you know they're trying to get engaged and they're like I'll feel better when I get engaged and then married, right.

Speaker 2: 36:53

And I came home and I was really thinking about how many of us sort of have this idea, and this person wasn't using the word confidence, for instance, right. And this person wasn't using the word confidence, for instance, right, but like they're using I'll feel better. But it's sort of the same brand and I think that there's this marked idea that confidence is earned. Right, like I deserve to take up space when I X, y, z and what I really want people to do is completely flip-flop. That which is confidence is just a skill. Anyone can have it at any point of their life, and the better that you feel about yourself sorry, I flopped up the better you feel about yourself, the more you're going to. I mean, I agree with you, right, anxiety is sort of this idea that we can't handle things. The more confidence that we have, the more we trust ourselves and our ability to handle things right. So if we're sort of constantly in doubt, constantly feeling like we're not going to be able to handle something, it makes a whole lot of sense that our confidence is going to be low, right.

Speaker 2: 37:57

And so, you know, if we rebrand confidence as simply just a skill, it's not a different skill. I mean, it is a different skill, but it's not under a different learning curve, as if you're learning how to ride a bike, you know, learn a new language, build a website, it's like, hey, when you practice and you get exposure to it, you, you know, bring in some influences that might give you some skills and a roadmap on how to get there. You'll find it. Same thing with anxiety. We can actually redirect our thoughts. That's a tough sell for most people, but it is true. It doesn't mean it's not difficult as hell. It is, but we can redirect our thoughts, we can practice safety, we can learn how to cool our nervous system. So you know again, just think of everything as a skill and then it's like oh, I have an opportunity to learn. It's not that there's this inaccessible, you know myth. That's just for everyone else, but not for me.

Speaker 1: 38:54

Yes, I'm strong confirmation bias. You're just, you're really speaking my language here. Confirmation bias, you're just, you're really speaking my language here. Um, you know, I talk about these things all the time and and with the foundation of of just what you're saying. There's nothing wrong with you. These are not, you know, inherently. Uh, they're not, they're not fixed traits of yours. It's skills that we never learned. And if you're not learning those things in your formative years, as you're growing up, to implement into your life, you don't know how and you have to learn them. And I think we have these ideas that I have that or I don't, I can do that or I can't. And and it's just not true. And I, I love that you're out there teaching people like, hey, this is just a skill, that these things are possible for you. Um, yeah, I just think it's so much more of this is is needed. Can you say more about your book is?

Speaker 2: 40:03

needed. Can you say more about your book I'm interested in? Yeah, so my book, um, yeah, you know, the reason that I decided to write a book, um was well, a few reasons, but one I was in Bali. I went on a retreat in Bali and I was sitting in a group of 10 women who were from all over the world, right, and they had such different lifestyles. So some of them were moms, some of them were career people, some of them were both.

Speaker 2: 40:33

And as one of our circles sort of unfolded, it's, you know, like the sharing circle, we're holding hands and sharing feelings and kumbaya world holding hands and sharing feelings, and kumbaya, all of them at some point, self included, was crying and saying I'm not enough, I'm failing, right, I work too hard, I'm failing my kids, I spent too much time with my kids, I'm failing my career. And I went home and I was like damn man, it doesn't matter who we are, where we live, right, like there is just this sense of I'm not enough. And that really shifted how I was speaking to the world, but certainly I was also speaking to clients and what I quickly realized is, I would say sort of similar speeches to that I'm giving you right, like, this is my mantras, this is my, all of the things that I say, it's my brand. Right, like this is my mantras, this is my, all of the things that I say, it's my brand. And what I would say to my clients. They would cry, right, and. And I remember telling my father this story, like I was like, yeah, you know, I think I might have something to say. And he's like, oh God, more women, empowerment. You don't think that they know that they shouldn't be dieting or they are enough. And I was like, spoken like a true man. Think that it doesn't. It sounds mundane. And, of course, to you, right back to your story, with the crumbs, right, they're not so self aware. But actually the women I'm talking to many of them, you know, badass, high powered, hustling women who have made a beautiful family or a beautiful career or both, still do not feel like enough.

Speaker 2: 42:15

And I just started, you know, after a day of sessions, kind of jotting down things that I thought were important for all of my clients to hear and really started making sure that each and every one of them heard it. And you know, I was working with a coach at the time and you know, before this sort of manifested into like writing of the book. I was just telling her this like I need to get to every client I have and make sure they hear this, that and the other thing. And she was like you only have so many clients, right, like you're only in front of so many people, which is true. So then I started thinking like how can I spread my message a little farther? And you know, cumulatively it's sort of ordered up to I started a newsletter and I started appearing on podcasts and I started an Instagram account and I have now my own podcast and I just think, whether my book becomes successful or not, I will feel better about myself and the work that I have done If at least I have tried to get this message out to as many people as I have reached for Right.

Speaker 2: 43:24

So it's back to like. My response is my responsibility and it ultimately just is. You know half autobiography and I share a lot of my story and my struggles. But you know, what I'm hoping it will do is not only give the you know the flavor of like hey, this is relatable, we all have felt this way, or many of us have felt this way, but I'm hoping also to give like practical tools, right? So, if you resonate to this chapter, here's what to actually do. You know I do have four degrees. I have been doing this for more than a decade. Here's what to actually do. You know I do have four degrees. I have been doing this for more than a decade. I have had hundreds of clients. So you know, here's what I've seen work, and I'm a lot of. This isn't like I'm not creating the wheel, I'm just putting it in a concise place where it's accessible in one format. You know I didn't create mindfulness. It has existed before me, right? I didn't create affirmations or neuroplasticity.

Speaker 1: 44:17

Yeah, that's, that's very exciting. When does that come?

Speaker 2: 44:19

out. I'm from your mouth to the universe's ears. I'm working on it right now. It takes a while, probably probably not for another year or so. Yeah, okay, well, I think these mediums first.

Speaker 1: 44:34

Yeah, I'm really excited about that and I will share all of your information in the show notes how to get ahold of you so everyone can follow that journey. That's really exciting for you and for, I think, everyone who's going to read that. I think that's will be an incredible resource, because those practical tools are are so necessary we have. You know, knowledge is, knowledge is great. Knowledge is not power unless you do something with it, and so unless we're taking action, it's not. We don't have the, we're not proving to ourselves that we can do the hard things. We're not, you know, having that visceral experience. It's great to know things, but it's that's not ultimately very useful. I'm curious about, do you see, is there a spectrum between not enough and too much, or is that one or the other?

Speaker 2: 45:30

No, I definitely don't think that, you know. I think you know the the too much is. I don't. I don't actually think I'm too much, right, I think it's just the world is not necessarily used to someone who's showing up and taking up that space you have moved from I am not enough to just I'm enough. Right, that looks different for everyone and like that's the beauty of like human diversity. You know, for me it means writing a book and appearing on podcasts and having my own podcast and be on there and speaking events. If for you it means, you know, living in a cute house in Vermont and tending to your garden and your pets, like that's enough too. Right, there's no. Like that's the point. Right, there's no prerequisite, there's no marked status point that makes you enough. You're just inherently enough. Period, full stop, wherever you are in life.

Speaker 2: 46:26

Right, and that is that internal power, right, just reminding yourself that you are worthy and you are deserving and you are lovable. Right, and reminding yourself that you are worthy and you are deserving and you are lovable, right, and this gets all like very cheesy mantra-y, but it's true. I mean, I joke with clients. I'm like there's no way to talk about this without sounding cheesy, but it's just true. We're always telling ourselves such ugly narratives. Right, I need to be thinner, I need to be prettier, I need to be more successful, I need to have kids by a certain age, I need a career by a certain age, I need to be a homeowner by a certain age. Like, none of that's true, right, what does that even mean? It's just you're living your life and you get to pick the rules of your own life full stop.

Speaker 1: 47:08

Yes, your success, your life, it's yours to create and it gets to look like whatever you want it to look like.

Speaker 1: 47:16

And I think that's hard because we're not very far removed from a time when women had a very prescribed life and nothing was your decision, like you didn't really have access to anything without your husband or your dad, and you didn't have to anything without your husband or your dad and you didn't have, you know, couldn't really make your own decisions and and so unlearning. I think we're still, collectively, in a space where we are unlearning that and and learning that. Oh, I, I get to choose what my life looks like and I get to choose what, what is enough for me and what it what feels good to me, and I think it's so, and I'm very similar. Like talking about mindfulness or, you know, just self-worth or, um, anything around like liking yourself and how to do. That feels so cheesy and I feel just okay I know this is going to be ridiculous, but bear with me here and I think that that is so unfortunate and speaks to the problem that that we have, that we don't feel like we can talk about those things without sounding silly.

Speaker 1: 48:28

We can't talk about. You know, I like myself and I tell myself, I like myself and I, I tell myself, I'm proud of myself and I, you know, I like myself and I tell myself, I like myself and I tell myself, I'm proud of myself and I, you know, whatever, all these things, without sounding silly and without having to, like, put that disclaimer, and as you're saying that I'm like, yeah, me too, like, I talk about these things and I'm like, okay, like, I know it's cheesy, but like, and I would like to get through a space where that's that's not that we, that, we know that's okay. Yeah, exactly that.

Speaker 2: 48:58

Right. I think, it just it highlights the discomfort of it all. Right, even the people who are sending the messages don't feel entirely confident in the message. The message yes, the delivery not so much.

Speaker 2: 49:12

And I think, you're right, it's, it's that we're not far removed from all of this stuff. It seems, you know anti my father's point, right? He's like oh, this is a tale as old as time. It's like, sure, for the guys, godspeed, but for the women it's actually not even close to a tale as old as time. It's a very, very new tale. And so we're finding our language around it, we're finding our comfort around it. You know, and I think you know the way we do, that is exactly what you and I are doing right now. Right, the more people that are out in the world just normalizing that this is an okay thing to talk about. You know, having the conversations, hearing it from different perspectives you know, hopefully insert a generation or two down the line.

Speaker 2: 49:53

This doesn't feel so cringeworthy, it just feels the same way we're talking about anything else yeah, yes, also my hope.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Yes, um, I'm looking at the time and I like to keep these, uh, around an hour. So, um, is there anything that we haven't touched on that you, that you really want to tell the people?

Speaker 2: 50:19

Yeah, you know, there's one little tiny aspect left. The other thing that I get sort of on my my high horse about is just looking at how shame comes into all of this.

Speaker 2: 50:32

And you know something that I want to. You know, I think like there is a big in the wellness community and Instagram communities. We're talking about confidence, we're talking about empowerment, but we don't really talk about the shame piece, and so, you know, I'll make it nice and quick. But if you're looking to build confidence, you're looking to build empowerment, you're looking to reduce anxiety, really start to also bring some awareness to when you are shaming yourself and it's a little sneakier, right, but shame usually comes with like pangs of regret, it comes with guilt and it's a really, really immobilizing feeling, right, once we add shame to anything, we have a much harder time getting through whatever it is right. Once we add shame to anything, we have a much harder time getting through whatever it is right.

Speaker 2: 51:16

So, if I don't know, I, you know, was insecure in the bedroom with my partner and then later I'm like I should be better at this by now I should feel more confident, right, like that doesn't help us actually navigate the first part. It just makes now we're adding a second layer. So, you know, I think that's a conversation that, even if we're not ready to share with each other, is something that each one of us can sort of look at is like when are we shaming ourselves, shitting ourselves and just really trying to say my old therapist used to say to me just say, this is what it feels like to insert feeling right. My partner went out with a friend of theirs and I felt really jealous. I shouldn't feel jealous, like, swipe that away. This is what it feels like to feel jealous, right. Just kind of like bring the attention without the judgment, and that is. That's a huge shift in sort of how we can look at our own life and feel better in our own skin, feel like enough, right. All the things that we've been talking about.

Speaker 1: 52:22

Yeah, I'm so happy you brought that up Because, as you know, in these spaces, like on Instagram, wellness, empowerment, all of these things I there is, uh, a lean towards toxic positivity in a lot of ways of like only positive vibes and just be happy and and find your empowerment but like how and that and you. That doesn't happen without feeling all of the feelings, without exploring the shame and the why. Am I sh shooting everything and not just accepting like it's okay, it's for me to feel, insert emotion, um, and I I very much appreciate that you brought that up. I think it is.

Speaker 1: 53:07

You know, we can't, we can't have have one without exploring the other, and it's much less comfortable to explore the shame and the should and those you know negative, the self-talk that we're constantly beating ourselves up, as opposed to just trying to cover that with how, how we want to be the aspirational feelings, yeah, um, yes, so thank you, I appreciate that. What is what is? I know I just said if there's anything else, what? What is one thing you'd like to leave the people with of your, an overall message from your soapbox, because I very much appreciate your box and I'd like to have you stand on it.

Speaker 2: 53:51

You know it's gonna to be repetitive, but I'm going to beat the hell out of this point.

Speaker 1: 53:55

You are allowed to yourself, that's it.

Speaker 2: 53:57

Like if we all just leave with no other takeaway from all of the wellness, health, empowerment. Just like you're allowed. You're allowed to like yourself, that's it. You know, show up, smile, don't smile on bad days. Hold your head high. Just like yourself, that's it.

Speaker 1: 54:14

And again, so simple. It doesn't have to be complicated. You're allowed to like yourself. I am. I'm so grateful for this conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. As I said before, I'm I'm we'll be putting all of your information in the show notes so everyone can get a hold of you. Is there one place that is better to find you than another?

Speaker 2: 54:40

Yeah, you know. So my website is anotefromyourtherapistcom and that has all where you can find my podcast, where you can find resources. I'm working on some free resources that are going to be available there, and my Instagram is by the same name a note from your therapist. So those are the two. Those are the two places I I kind of like push out into the world the most.

Speaker 1: 55:02

Okay, great, I will have all of that in there for everyone listening. I am so grateful for your time and attention. You know I don't take that for granted. You could be doing anything else. Thank you for joining us today and we'll do this again Until next time.

Speaker 2: 55:18

Thank you so?

Speaker 1: 55:19

much Of course.