Ultra-running for the joy of it with Lucy Bartholomew

When I first came across a doco about Lucy Bartholomew running 231 kilometres in 54 hours on the Larapinta Trail solo, I thought, I need to talk to this woman! Lucy is an ultra-runner and an incredible human and I'm so happy to share our chat with you. From facing early controversy in the sport to tackling some of the world's toughest races, and rebuilding after a downfall, Lucy shares what keeps her going. 

She shares how her mindset around competition has evolved, why she now focuses on personal growth over podiums, and how her menstrual cycle became a green light for her in training.

More about Lucy...

Lucy is an ultra-marathon runnerr who has competed in world-renowned races like UTMB, Western States and Tarawera. She started running alongside her dad as a teenager and over the years, she has carved out her own path. Her approach to running is all about joy, adventure and tuning into what truly matters beyond race results.

Connect with Lucy
Connect with Lucy on Instagram @lucy_bartholomew

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Transcript

Annie: So Lucy Bartholomew, thank you so much for being here. I have a bit of a mix of kind of fangirl slash like, oh my mate Lucy kind of vibe, which I imagine that actually thousands of people around the world have that feeling with you because you're so warm and open from what I can see in real life, but also on your socials.

So it is great to actually meet you though, and such a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thanks for being here. 

Lucy: Oh, well, what a lovely introduction. I'm super happy to be here and I feel like we're best mates already. 

Annie: Love it. So we will go back to kind of where ultra running started for you. But first, can we talk about your most recent ultra running experience, which is, am I right that it was just a few weeks ago in the Tarawera? Is that how you say it? Tarawera. 

Lucy: Correct. Yeah. 

Annie: 102 kilometers. 

Lucy: Yep, that's right. 

Annie: Your reflection on that and your socials was, it was not your day. I'd love to know a little bit about how you went into it, what the experience was like, and how you're reflecting on it now a few weeks later.

Lucy: Yeah, definitely. And it's probably good we're doing this podcast a few weeks later 'cause immediately after I was pretty sour about the whole thing. I went to Tarawera chasing a Golden ticket, which is a reward that the top two of male and female get to go and race this big race in a hundred miles in the US.

 When you're doing something like that, it's very challenging because anything beyond second place is you didn't, you failed the, what you were going after. And that's always, I've really struggled with that because, you know, it's just a very finite to find success. And it depends a lot on other people's days and I can't change or compete with what they're doing. I can only do me. And so I, this race doesn't suit my probably what I'd be more specific about, which is like mountain running. It's a very fast and flat 100K. And so the training, it was new, it was different. And that meant that it was really hard and I felt a lot of resistance 'cause it was different from my body and I was moving differently.

And it's exciting and rewarding, but at the same time it was just like, whoa, okay. You know, like I'm really, really giving this something and opting to do different things than what I would normally want and find joy in. And so I think for the race to kind of uh, start spiraling pretty early. I was really disappointed and I had a lot of time during the race to kind of reflect on, you know, I think sometimes we do these races in order to do other races and we get sucked into this path and, you know, you've gotta, when you're running a hundred Ks, you know, I was out there for 10 hours being like, why am I doing this?

You know? And I think that question of why is really important, and it always has been for my career, but it really felt like. You know, I really wanna be intentional with where I spend my energy and put my time and effort. And maybe that doesn't mean that you play the game of getting into other races, but you, at least when it gets hard, you're just like, yeah, but I, I want this. I choose this. I look around and I love this. Um, and I just didn't feel that to the same extent at Tarawera. But now with a few weeks of reflection, I am just so grateful for. I think it's important to be humbled by this sport. And I had a really great end to last year, and I think I took that confidence and just kind of assumed that this race would follow the same suit, even though it's such a different style of running.

Um, and now I'm just kinda like, wow, you know, it changes as good as a holiday. I now just love that I'm back to doing what I love and it was moving away from it that it has evolved it and made it bigger for me. So it's like a, strange way to start the year, but it's exactly how I started last year.

I raced, at Black Canyon in the USA, had a bad race and then had a great end of the year. And so it's just kind of important to not let that race result define me and just be like, cool, there's lessons, there's learnings, there's takeaways, we move on. And that's where I'm at now is the, the motivated, uh, next level. Um, let's go again, Lucy. 

Annie: Okay. That's amazing. When you say that it started spiraling early, for you is that a physical thing or is it more mental or a combination of both? 

Lucy: It's definitely a-

Annie: Or spiraling- 

Lucy: A connection of both. Yeah, it's um, I think. You know, this race starts exceptionally fast and the pace that we were going at was probably my marathon pace.

So to think I have to do two and a half marathons, I would say before my body gave out, my brain saw the pace and was like, Lucy, you're so outta your, like this is not your space to be playing in and you're being disrespectful to that a hundred kilometer distance. Um, and so I tried to, I slowed myself down to what I knew that I could handle and got spat at the back, which is fine, but once I was on my own, I started to just, you know, I, I didn't, I kept like spacing out and just being like, oh, this, I'm not in it.

I'm not getting top two. You're already not achieving what you're going to. And it's crazy because, you know, like thoughts of like, just stop and save it for another day. And I just, that's my attitude is always like, just get to the finish line. Like, you can look after yourself and not, you don't need to rinse yourself for the result that you don't want.

But, um, yeah, it was really cool 'cause once I then started running with some men that were around me and we had some chats and I just felt like there was a, a greater meaning to this race than, like, it's not gonna be second place, but doesn't mean it's gonna be a bad, bad day. 

Annie: Okay. Yeah, you're amazing. It seems like it just making those adjustments mentally, because like you say, like that is a long time to be out there with your thoughts.

Lucy: Yeah, yeah

Annie: I did my first marathon last year, and so I've done much, much shorter events and I have set out even on like 5K runs and like within, sometimes within a few minutes just being like, oh crap, this is a hard one. Like my body just doesn't feel good, or my mind's just not in a good place. And it's like, okay, but hang in there. It's half an hour. I'll be all right, but like 10 hours? 

That's really intense. 

Lucy: Yeah. I think there's a beauty in it. And the thing is, with anything, the permanence of how you feel when running is, it's so up and down. And once you realize that the good won't last that long, so enjoy it while you, it feels good.

You also realize the bad doesn't last that long. And I've, I've always kind of said to myself, you know, like, the two things I can control are my effort and my attitude. So if I put the effort into, okay, I don't feel so good, maybe I should eat something, maybe I should just walk this hill. Maybe I need some water.

Maybe just like, give yourself a minute, you know, and do like a check from your toes to your nose of how everything's feeling and just kind of like, try and hone in on what do you think is making you feel this way. And then like your attitude, you know, if things started to spiral in this race at about 20 kilometers.

So I had 80k's, 50 miles to continue. And if I looked at that, I think I would've completely had a, a panic attack about it. But it was kind of like, okay, just get to the next checkpoint and there, just take a minute, get some food. You know, stay optimistic when a girl passes you, you know, cheer for them. You know, you like, put your effort and your energy and share it to other people.

And that was one of the cool things about the race was there was a lot of movement, especially in the women's race. And I saw people slide back to me and I caught up to other people and there was just this like mad respect of like, dude, we tried, we hung on, we're still here. We're doing it. Like people forget that, you know, 1% of the world has done a marathon. 0.1% of the world has done an ultra marathon. We are doing something that's absurd and you get these incredibly lucky days where things click together and you have a day. But for things to go well for 10 hours, you've got some really bad odds of that happening. 

Annie: Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. Yeah, it is incredible what you do. I teach yoga. I dunno if you've practiced much yoga, but there's a lot of things that I think overlap with the philosophy and the mindset of yoga with running. And one of the things is in yoga we teach, uh, it's called Abhyasa and Vairagya. Abhyasa is basically like just giving your best, like a full dedicated commitment, like showing up wholeheartedly all you got.

And then the Vairagya part of it is like letting go of attachment to results. So it's like this combination of two. And as I watch you on Instagram, 

you do this really beautifully. It's like this and it seems to come naturally to you. And I'm curious about how natural that is or how much it's cultivated.

Lucy: I would say it's a nature versus nurture. And I would say it's a lot about who I've surrounded myself with. And I've also had a pretty, I had a really, upward trajectory start to my career. Um, came pretty easily, came very naturally, and then had a real downfall. And that was physical, mental, emotional, everything.

And my way of kind of controlling the things I could within that time was to do a lot of reading, a lot of yoga, a lot of kind of, I wanted to learn from people outside of the space of the sport. I wanted to learn from different practices. And, you know, the, I think like stoicism and yoga and all of that, and all of that stuff has now like, it, it wasn't like, oh, in one ear at the other ear during that phase. It's stuck with me. And so there's parts where like I hear myself speaking or I hear the way or the way that I'm writing in a journal, and I realize that I've can kind of shift my attitude through it and because of all these other things and the experiences and the readings and other people's experiences.

And I think that's probably what's really given me that narrative that I can switch. It doesn't come immediately. And I think that's really important. Like, I have those same emotions of anger, frustration. I'm upset, I'm pissed off. But then it's kind of like I'm able to kind of be like, uh, slippery slope, let's just write this down and read it back to yourself and see how ridiculous this sounds. Or, you know, I will talk to somebody and I can hear my own voice and I'm like, this is so silly. I think that that's like something that's really important of kind of like that letting go that give her that take and the resistance there.

I can kind of stop before any friction really starts to grab hold. 

Annie: Mm. That's a really incredible quality and that also means I get to cross one of my questions off my list. I was like, do you ever get mad? 

Lucy: Oh, yes. 

Annie: Okay. Good to know. Good to know. So before we do go back to where it all started, just in case anyone listening is not familiar with ultra running, what is an ultra marathon or ultra run?

Lucy: So by definition an ultra marathon is anything over the 42.2 kilometer distance. A 42.3 is an ultra marathon. Generally it jumps to the 50 kilometer is where people will race at an event and it's a 50K. And then I specialize more so in that 100K to a 100 mile 160 kilometer. A lot of it's like I generally am off road on the trails and in the mountains.

Um, but there's road track, um, you know, trail ultras of every kind of style, which I love because I feel like when you say ultra running, you have no idea what kind of shape or form that's coming in. 

Annie: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like in, from what I see often ultra running and trail running are kind of conflated. Like it's as though they are one and the same thing, but they're not, yeah?

Lucy: Yeah. And I think that's a really important distinction. I always think when people say they wanna try trail running, they think they need to do 50 kilometers of it. And I'm always like, no, no. And also I think they take what you do like a marathon on the roads where you're running for the, mostly the entirety.

The thing about trail running is that the nature, the terrains, the gradients, they vary so much that when I say I run a hundred miles, I'm run walking that thing, you know, like, I don't want you to think of your school athletic stay, and that's what I do for 10 hours. No, no, it's a lot slower.

It's a lot more chilled and it's, you know, I really believe that it's where the, the physical becomes less and the mental becomes more, it crosses that threshold. 

Annie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Okay, so let's go back to where it did all start with you. You running with your dad, affectionately known as Lucy's dad?

Lucy: Yeah, exactly. He grew up a marathon runner and as he was getting older, he was getting slower on the roads. He'd kind of felt like he'd reached his PBs and probably run out of that fire. He'd got his sub three, he'd kind of etched his name in the Bartholomew history books. And then, um, he was looking for something different.

So he found this run up in the Blue Mountains in Sydney, that was a hundred kilometers, and he actually watched the first year event he was gonna sign up. He wasn't really sure, a little bit nervous, so he actually didn't sign up and then he signed up the following year. And, you know, at the time I was 14 and I just saw him going for these big long runs in the bush and you know, just kind of like going on these excursions to see some cool things. And I would hear about them when he came back and was like, can I come along? I'll bring my bike and I can ride next to you, or whatever. And so we go on these dad daughter weekends away and it was so fun.

And then he started to get onto more technical trails and I couldn't ride my bike. So I was like, dude, I've kind of seen what you do and like running is such a loose term for what you're doing. Um, so I was like, can I, can I run with you? And so we went out and just would have these amazing conversations, see amazing things.

And I'd go to school on Monday and be like, yeah, I saw like wombats and you know, we stayed in this little like campground in the middle of nowhere. And I realized that the running was like so small of those whole trips. It was just the greater experience. Um, and then that's how, yeah, I saw him do the race and I was just like, this is incredible.

This is beyond anything I've ever seen. And to see my dad do it, I was like, if he can do it, I reckon I can do it. 

Annie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amazing. And then, so you did. 

Lucy: Yeah, so on the way on the train back from that race, I saw him finish. Um, and it was actually not him finishing, it was the back of the pack. So we, he finished, we went to bed, woke up, had breakfast, went down to the finish line, and we watched the final hour of people coming in.

And it was just seeing, you know, people of every age, shape, size, color, background, you know, it was just so eclectic. And I was like, wow, you know, this is, they have been out all day yesterday, all night while I slept. And then they're coming in and they're smiling and they're just, you know, it was like resilience in the highest form.

And so on the train back after the race, back to the airport, I emailed pretty much every race director of 100K races in Australia. And I was obviously underage. Um. And one of them came back and said, yeah, we can let you do it. You'll have to run with your dad. You'll have to kind of jump over some extra hurdles but we think, you know, like we're willing to give you this chance. And yeah, that's when I kind of was like, we got off the, got on, got to the airport and I said to dad, guess what? I've just signed us up for our next race. [chuckles] 

Annie: How was he about that? Was he like, hang on, give me a minute to recover or--

Lucy: Yeah, it was not till quite a bit later in the year, but he was, I think he was really, he was nervous and cautious about, obviously a hundred Ks is a really long way for a young female to be go or young anybody to be going. Um, and he just experienced just how much of a rollercoaster and challenge and his body was beat up and, you know, but he was just kind of like, well, let's just go for a run next week and the next day and the next day, and let's just kind of, if it's meant to be, it'll be, and if not, you know, it, there's no shame in, you know, you try, you've put your foot forward and you've, you've reached out and that's just like, there's power in that.

Annie: Absolutely. And then, so how did it go your first run? That's okay. 

Lucy: Yeah, it was incredible. It was, um, so the week before the race, we both kind of freaked out about me running this distance. So we ran a 50 kilometer race and we were like, okay, if we can do half, we can do double. 

Annie: Okay. 

Lucy: Because I just needed a longer run. And we went and did this really fun low key race. Um, and then it was hard because in the lead up to the race, uh, there was a lot of noise about me doing it. There was a group of young boys that were walking the hundred k and that was okay. It was the fact that I was saying that I wanted to run that there was like a little bit more attention and a little bit more controversy on it. The race ambassador for the race, she pulled out saying that she didn't wanna be participating or, um, promoting young girls doing this. And there was a lot of kind of like, oh, she's obviously being forced to do it. She's got an exercise addiction, you know, there's something more to this than I would voluntarily sign up pay, and just wanna spend my day running with my dad.

Um. And so I remember my dad on the start line saying to me, you know, Lucy, there's a lot of people here who are gonna wanna want you to stop because they wanna be right. And he said, you know, all of these opinions and stuff, they come from people being uncomfortable in, you're doing something that they don't know can be done or should be done.

And so it's just like a, a cautionary, you know, they're, they're not dissing you, they're just uncomfortable with the situation that they dunno the result of. The gun went off and dad and I spent 12 and a half hours running along this coastline, just kind of ebbing and flowing with each other's energy.

When he was having a hard time, I was having a good time. So I supported him when I was having a hard time. He was, you know, there to be that kind of, you know, just eat something, we'll just walk this little patch, it'll, you know, it'll move on. It was just incredible. I think it's probably to date still one of my favorite runs that I remember. And I just remember finishing on Saturday night and then Sunday going down to watch the final finishes and then going to school on Monday. And everyone was like, what did you do on the weekend? And I was like, dude, you have no idea.

Annie: Let me tell you. That's amazing. Yeah. Wow. And so obviously you, you completed that and you wanted more. 

Lucy: Yeah, so I finished that race, I, and I finished what was really important about how we ran that race and you know, them making me run with my dad. At the start I was like, man, he is just slowing me down, you know? But I finished the race in such good spirits. Had I run how I sometimes run and definitely used to run, which is just full gas. And you know, you blow up and then you walk it in and then your final memory of that race is just like, you were super challenged. You, I walked it in, I, you know, you don't feel, I finish.

We ran across the finish line and I was like, oh, I have more to give, like, give me another shot. And so the race let me in for the next year. Um, and I didn't have to run with my dad and I ran three and a half hours faster and finished second female. 

Annie: Wow. 

Lucy: And it was just kind of, that's when I think people and my dad and even myself, I was like, Hey, like I'm kind of okay at this. And I really just like enjoyed it, you know? I was able to keep myself in a good head space. I was able to manage myself. And I think for a young girl it was really empowering to be like, I have all my snacks. I have all the gear. If anything goes wrong, I know kind of what to do. And yeah, I just felt like it was a day where I was able to just use my body as like, such a vehicle to see cool things and yeah, it made me wanna just do more and more of it.

Annie: Yeah. Wow. And when you look back at what that would've been like 16-year-old you doing the first one on your own with, is that right? 

Lucy: Correct. Yeah. 

Annie: What would you say to her now looking back? 

Lucy: Oh man. I think that she did a great job considering the noise and the media and everything that, you know, I wouldn't say a change of thing.

I think, I was so lucky to have my dad in my corner because at any point he could have said, you know what, Lucy, just wait till you're 18 and you know, don't dare to be different. Just stay on the pave path. But instead, I had the support of so many good people around me that were like, you know what?

Like dare to be different and take the trail less trodden. And now it's amazing because you see it constantly being happening, happening. But yeah, I would just say being true to yourself and knowing. We knew what was good for me, you know, dad had seen the day in day out training, so had my friends and family.

And I don't see what the difference is between me training really well for it and someone having a big night at a bar and signing up on a whim because like they can and I'm gonna do it. I think the risk for both is similar. And so I just kind of really wanted to emphasize that and yeah I'd just be really proud of her. 

Annie: Yeah. Yep. And so Lovely, the relationship with your dad just seems so, so beautiful. Like just that he's been part of it was the inspiration from the beginning and yeah, it just seems like you have such a special relationship. 

Lucy: Yeah, I'm super, I mean, yeah, like I said, without his support, my story would be completely different and I probably wouldn't be where I am.

But you know, I still come back to Australia, I'm in his house and we spend a lot of time together and he sees that day in, day out grind. And I see him doing the same thing as a 63-year-old and it's just like, man, I just wanna be that, you know, not many people get to live with their inspirations.

And so it's been really cool and he's just, yeah, he's pivotal to my life, my career, my, yeah, he's just everything. 

Annie: Yeah. Oh my gosh. And the doco about him doing the Western state. Oh my gosh, that was just amazing. Everybody needs to go and see that. I'll put a link in the show notes. 

From such an early age, you had a lot of eyes on you in this sport. Like even before you started, it sounds like people were really watching and then I think that in some ways surely that's continued because you're so good at it and because of your personality. I think you're so bright and open and I think people are drawn to you.

So whether or not you intended to, you've become a role model. How aware are you of that and what does that mean for you? 

Lucy: Yeah. Well, thank you. Um, yeah, I'm very aware of it now. I think it's really important that anyone who has anybody following them, you've gotta be so just careful with what you say because I, you know, I remember being young and just kind of taking in, absorbing and watching and reading into things, it's not face value for young kids. You know, attention to detail is actually super strong. I know that my path was different, and I know my reasons for doing it, but I'm always very cautious when parents or young girls and boys reach out to me because I'm like, what was important in my journey is that my why was never to become what I'm doing now.

I'm doing it purely from a place of passion and hanging out with my dad and exploration, and now that trail running and it became being a career and sponsorship is a thing, I get concerned that people look more for the end results and they're like, how do I get there quickly and I just think that whole space has changed.

And so I'm very aware of speaking about the sport and about like, yes, it looks great on social media. It looks like you get paid to run around the world, but there's so much, you know, I also get a lot of negative, I get a lot of opinions, I get a lot of talk, I get a lot of pressure, both internal and external.

And there's a point when your passion becomes your profession that the passion starts to shrink because you just, it's not what it used to be. It's not running with my dad and, you know, and it not being my identity when I go to school. It was just like, oh, there's Lucy. Now it's kind of, you become synonymous with it.

 And yeah, so I think I'm very aware of being a role model and trying to, like, I really wanna put forward a, like, you know, be strong in who you are. Look after your body and just don't do it with what you want the end result be. Just do it with a day to enjoyment factor.

And that's definitely something that like I sometimes get overwhelmed with. Sometimes it's hard to know what to say 'cause you dunno how it's gonna be received. But it's a privilege to have an audience of people that, you know, reach out to me and look up to me and want to talk to me or understand my journey so that they can do similar things.

I think that's a really beautiful thing. 

Annie: Mm-hmm. I imagine it's such a challenge to balance that. Maintaining just the purity I of it, I guess in the sense of just the love for it and doing it because it's, because it's fun and because it's a way of connecting in with nature and with people and all of those things that seem so important.

And then also that somebody does win. And like you say, like in these events, like two people like kind of get to go, yes, I achieved the thing. And then a whole lot of people don't. And I guess so if, if it was only about that end result, the winning or the taking one of the top spots, like the, yeah, you could kind of get the balance off really quickly, I imagine.

Lucy: Yeah. And that's totally kind of, that's what happened in like when I had that downfall that I was talking about. I would say that I just outran my love of running. I thought if I did more, I would be more, you know, it was correlated. The more I won, the better, more valuable I was as a human being.

And it's hard because you get tricked into that because when you win, there's media opportunities, there's sponsorships, people value you, you're suddenly of note. When you don't do well, things go very quiet. And so you start to tie your worth really quickly and really tightly into what you re what you achieve.

And it was actually covid and lockdown where there was no racing. There was no traveling. I had one hour of exercise in Melbourne in my five kilometer radius that it made me really sit and be like. Okay. You are currently not ant ultra runner. You're not like, you're not trail, you're not doing what you've kind of identified as, and so who are you?

And that's when I was like, well, I, you know, I've always wanted to write a cookbook and I've always, like, I'm a sister and a daughter and maybe it's the time that I make the phone calls to people that I kind of had when I'm training just neglected. You know, be that better friend, be that better sister.

 I really put a lot of effort and time into expanding where I find worth from. Because a friend saying that you were an amazing friend during a really hard time is always gonna trump a, a medal or a trophy. You know, it's just kind of like on my tombstone, I hope it doesn't say, you know, Western states UTMB, all my race results.

I hope it says all these other things that I am. And that's kind of like important for me now to foster greater than the race results. 

Annie: Yeah. Wow. And that time during lockdowns and that reflection that you got to do, what's changed for you now kind of before that to how you are now? How has that influenced how you live and how you race? 

Lucy: I think it's given me, you know, it's amazing when you take something away, like the travel, you know, before that I was getting a little bit like, wow, I'm just like always on the go living out of a backpack. And it was waning on how fun that was.

And then when it started up again, it was kind of like, oh, this is such a privilege. You know? And just to really lean in and enjoy it and chase what sets your heart on fire. And this is a finite amount of time that I'm gonna have this opportunity to live this lifestyle and to do these things and or to do them how I'm doing them.

 I think it just gave me a whole lot of fresh air into kind of like the sport and my lifestyle and just double down on the things that really matter. I really came out of that lockdown and those years just with this like, you're gonna lose more than you win. That's just the reality of racing these races and this sport that is booming.

So, you know, kind of just get used to like putting yourself out there, trying your best, seeing where it lands. Sometimes it'll be the top, sometimes it won't. And I think it just gave me this like, "Screw it." Just enjoy it for what it is. It wasn't until two years of being shelled in my house for so long and not getting to interact with people that I was like, man, what I see in places I go and the people I meet from this sport, I mean, it's worth the hardship that comes with like, you know, the social media or the noise or the yeah, the internal stuff.

It's such a beautiful thing and it's not to be taken for granted. 

Annie: Yeah. For me, when I run in my much shorter distances, I still like to have like winning is never ever on the race for me. When I'm at events and things like that, I always think about that or often think about that.

Like I go into it purely for the experience. Like I said, winning is not even on the radar. They're probably handing out the medals while I'm still running. Like, this is how these things go. But I think it must just be such a different experience when winning is even a possibility.

And I can imagine that it adds something amazing to it to be like, okay, I'm really setting my eyes on going as fast as I can and maybe faster than other people here and all of that. But yeah, also like a real pressure and I guess the potential for it to feel like an unsatisfying experience when it could otherwise have been satisfying. I guess if that wasn't sort of held up as the thing that you're trying to do. 

Lucy: Hmm. Yeah. And I think a really good example is, so two years ago I did the UTMB, which is 106 or 170 kilometers with 10,000 meters. It goes from France into Italy, into Switzerland, around the Mont Blanc, massive. And this race had alluded me.

It had scared me. I'd watched my dad barely make the cutoff to the finish line. So I'd seen like the really raw backend. Um, and I completed it. And that was my goal. It was kind of like, you're not gonna compete. You're gonna complete for this attempt. And, you know, I finished in 10th place. I ran very reasonable, I would say I just kind of was in within myself because I was so fearful.

I was like, just run, don't do anything stupid. Don't try and compete, just look after yourself and make a good memory of that race. Hmm. And then I went back last year and I finished in 10th place again, but two hours faster or hour 40 faster. 

Annie: Wow. 

Lucy: Everyone had gotten faster and people said to me, oh, are you disappointed because you're still 10th place?

And I was like, yeah, but if you compare the previous year to this year, me versus me, I have improved so much. And if my improvements is compared to where the sport is going, like it's, I'm never gonna be satisfied. It's gonna be like, it's super challenging. And so I've really learned to- the competition is the competition, but the real thing that I can control is can I right my wrongs from the previous year or the previous race.

I think that that way I can control if I find success and wins along the way rather than, yeah. It's not the sexy thing that will go on the, in the news outlets of who won the race and, but I think that if that's what you're shooting for, I mean, you're like, it's such a fine line, you know? 'cause you can be in it and then you can be so far off it. And so I think that like, I really had to change my attitude because in my early career, me just being a female showing up meant I won. There was like one of one in the race. And especially in my age group, there was nobody. So I was always winning and I was always getting this positive, like, but at some point along there I had to learn of like, you will lose and you can lose two ways.

You can lose and show gratitude and be graceful about it and take some lessons and move forward. Or you can lose and be sour and get annoyed and, you know, you can choose two paths in that way. And I think that like, you know, I, I did a few of both and I just realized that for sure, you know, if you can lose and be like, nah, but my nutrition, I did really well, you know, and that's for me, I'm gonna take that as a win and I'm gonna take that momentum rather than the lack of momentum that comes from just feeling like you failed at a goal that you set yourself.

Annie: That's a really incredible attitude. I love that so much. I think for me, even when I just go out on like runs, not in an event just running, I, one of the things that I do is I often will just pick up rubbish towards the end of my run. Like if I see rubbish and I'll just put it in the bin and it's something that I have taken on partly because I think it's, there's a lot of rubbish out there and it needs to get thrown away.

But also that sometimes if it feels like that was a hard run or a crappy run or it just didn't feel good or whatever, it's good to have different ways of measuring a successful run. And for me, if I'm like, I just saved those four bits of plastic from like ending up in a fish somewhere, like then that was a satisfying run.

Like even if it actually was hard and exhausting and or whatever else. So it's like, yeah, having some different ways of measuring success, I suppose. 

Lucy: I just think when you go for a run, which is in and itself such a privilege to carve out that time for yourself and for your body to allow you to do it.

You know, when you go for even a good run or a bad run, you saw, something you otherwise wouldn't have seen. You smell, you heard, you felt, there's not many runs that I've ever regretted going on, even if they've turned out to be very challenging or I didn't finish the session or it didn't go the way I thought it was going to.

And I always like to think of those, the slingshot sessions, the ones that like feels like you've gone backwards, but then come two weeks time, you are actually beyond where you were and it's just kind of like. These are not, they're not pillows, they're just grains of salt. They're just little and they will all add up and they all come to the surface and it rinses out in the wash at some point.

So it's just not putting too much pressure or weight onto any single session, but just kind of cool. You finish the run, you take your shoes off, you have a shower, you wash that off. You don't ruminate on it. Like you move on with your day. You go back to being a mom or a father or a sister or a student or a barista.

You go into being human that you are, you know, that human being versus human doing is something to me that I really had to differentiate. I am not my runs. I am a runner. It's an ingredient of who I am, but it's not all I am. And so good run or bad run, I'm still my dog's favorite person in the world, you know?

Annie: Love that. Yeah. That's. Yeah. So true and such great wisdom. Not for running, but for life. 

Lucy: Totally. I think they say, you know, running an ultra is living life in a day. And I feel like all my ultras, I've just questioned who I am, what I'm doing, why I am doing things. And you know, I, I think all the things I've learned through ultra running, I now apply to life and probably I've learned in life and taken to running as well.

Annie: Yeah, I can imagine. That's amazing. And so can we talk about, uh, you shared about a time, and maybe this correlates with what you were already, what you were talking about before, where your menstrual cycle went missing. 

Lucy: Mm-hmm. 

Annie: And from over training, I guess, or through just training. And it's a really common experience for a lot of elite athletes. At what point did that become a concern for you and can you talk us through what you did about that? 

Lucy: Yeah, I think it's a problem not just for elite athletes, I think it's for anyone you know, REDS, which is relative energy deficiency in sport, um, is merely just not meeting the demands of what you're training and your living needs through fueling through rest.

Um, and for me, you know, honestly there was no alarms for a long time. Like I was doing this and I could feel my body changing. And I knew that I wasn't having a menstrual cycle and I just was kind of, you know, no worries. It's all good. I've kind of heard this story before. I've heard it comes back like all good.

 And it's not until I hit this, you know. I had a really bad race and then my body was like, so usually people who have REDS or have this energy deficiency, they'll result in an injury, they'll have a stress fracture, a bone injury because that's been compromised. For me and you know, touch wood, I've been super lucky in that I've never had a stress injury, I've never had bone related stuff.

But for me, and what cracks first, I think before my body is my brain, it very quickly, I can realize through my language around training or sport or racing, if I am probably pushed myself too far. You know, I get pretty negative. I say that I have to do these things. I don't want to, or I get to, I need to do them.

And I always, when I hear those sentences, I'm always like, ah, like, you shouldn't have to or need to. You should want to, and you get to. And so that my mental space really crumbled. I was kind of slogging through these runs. My body didn't want to go, my brain didn't want to go, which didn't wanna go first, I don't know. But it wasn't until it kind of, well, it kind of collided with the same time as lockdown. So everything came crumbling back to sitting in this house and I kind of sought out some help thinking that like I had anemia or my blood was low and my iron was low and she kind of said, you know, have you had a menstrual cycle?

And I was like, you know, no, not for a long time. And I just didn't realize the repercussion of that. And you know, I was lucky again to come out the other side and do it quite quietly in Covid. And again, it was finding who I was and allowing my body to just breathe and be what it needs to be. It's incredible when you start getting all those things systems up and working again, you realize how capable we are and now I see the menstrual cycle as like this just like high five, this green light of like, you're doing good, you're doing well, we're all sweet systems, go. And so it's, uh, my dialogue around it has really changed and it's the way I speak to any young person who comes to me of like, take no pride in losing your menstrual cycle.

Take huge cautionary the minute you feel any change. Like alarm bells should be ringing if you don't get that green light. And that's something that like, yeah, I wish I'd known earlier, but I understand these girls that are in that space and they're just kind of like, I mean, it's kind of convenient not to have it, you know?

Annie: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. You can see the appeal for sure. 

Lucy: Yeah, I mean the amount of races and days and training that are, you know, somewhat compromised because of this monthly cycle, but you realize that the compromise for a day versus the years of longevity and injury, less periods, you're gonna have, it's worth it, you know, for a bit of cramps and a little bit of like uncomfortableness.

So yeah, I almost think that it's great training for ultra running. I'm like, if I can endure this thing monthly, I'm for a day. 

Annie: Yeah. Amazing. So when I first came across you, I stumbled across a doco on YouTube of you running the Larapinta trail. And I was like, who is this woman? Like this was incredible.

You just like running out and your crew wasn't even coming with you. They were just like sending you out, like as in the camera crew, you were just like leaving them at certain points and just running out into the dead of night in the desert by yourself. I was like, whoa, this woman's intense and amazing.

And then you'd come back all like laughs and smiles and like, oh, I got completely lost. And you know, it's like that. 

I wondered and I still wonder like, do you get scared? 

Lucy: Yeah, I mean that, because that wasn't an event. This was purely, you know, we were post covid. I just wanted to go for a long run and-

Annie: Yeah. That was you totally by yourself? 

Lucy: Yes, totally by myself. There was no course markings, no people. I had my crew that I saw every eight hours or so, and you know, I get lost in supermarkets. I'm not the most navigationally sound and, you know, since then I've learned a lot about like carrying a PLB and those kind of emergency steps that you can.

And I just didn't, you know, I was so just unaware that I, and I put myself into that kind of space and I, I show that film to schools and I'm always like, now running shouldn't look like this. And you aspire your running journey to put yourself in that level of dehydration, fatigue, um, you know, in those kind of like areas of isolation.

But it was an incredible experience and it was one that really all that work that I'd done in that covid period of just like, who am I, what am I doing? This felt like a pilgrimage of just kind of all the tools in my tool belt getting used, me chasing that curiosity, which has always been the driver of my sport.

Learning and listening to stories of the indigenous history of the area, of the people that live in Alice Springs and how they go about life and living in those kind of like really gnarly terrain and climate. And so it just felt like a really beautiful way of just tying up a portion of my life. It felt like a real chapter point, you know?

And I finished that and I was then like, now I wanna race. Now I wanna go back to competing on the start line and putting bibs on, because there was a part there where I just wasn't sure if that was what I wanted to keep doing. I loved running and I would run every day and I would train even if I never raced again was what I realized. 

And now I don't see it as like racing is the thing that I need to build up towards. It's just like a celebration along the way of milestones and coming together, a gathering of people that I love in places I've never been or places that I love. But Larapinta was for sure by far and behold one of the most challenging things, and it gave me so much love and respect for my body and my brain because it let me go 54 hours nonstop. It let me run 250 kilometers. It climbed me out of river beds I shouldn't have been on. It let me eat sugar and crap for so long and still digest and you know, it was just incredible. You shouldn't have to do that to realize how amazing your body, I'll do it for you to tell you.

Annie: Great. Yes. I'll just take that lesson from you. Thank you. It did, although it did inspire me to go, perhaps not to do what you did, but to go to that area. It looks just so amazing. 

Lucy: Well, and that was like a huge thing was Salomon had never made a film on Australian soil and so I really wanted to show like the real red deserts, the sands and the, yeah, just how gnarly, you know, Australians are built tough and so are our animals and so is our flora and our fauna, and I really wanted to create something for people to be like, oh, that looks pretty cool.

Annie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so you then just at some point decided, Ironman's, why don't I throw in Ironman's? And I feel like this aspect of you, I relate to, it's like I'm like the mini version of you. Like among my friends, I'm the one that people will be like, oh, of course she's taking on some new challenge or like embarking on some new thing.

And then I see the level, the scale that you do it on. And I'm like, whoa. What prompted you to just throw in Ironman training and competing into your life? 

Lucy: Yeah, so the Ironman idea came about during the Covid stuff. Um, the lockdowns, I was looking for races to do within Australia and I've done most of the trail races.

Um, and I'd always wanted to, always been interested in triathlon, always watched Kona on with my dad on the tv and um I kind of thought about it, talked about it, and then was like, you know what? Now's as good as time ever 'cause I have time to train. Like I can sit on an indoor bike. I already know how to swim and a marathon doesn't worry me too much. Stitching it all together does like, it was really scaring. It's intimidating. There's a lot of stuff you need and yeah, I just kind of, I felt that. What I loved about it was that I felt that feeling of being a student again. I think to go into, I just learned to clean in on the bike and use the shoes and everything, and I'd never done like a workout in the pool.

And so this community became all these teachers to me and I was like, how do you like clean out and how do you, should I do like, how do you structure a session or whatever? And I, I sometimes feel like in the trail world, people look at me and they look for answers and they expect that I've experienced or I have this solution.

And I just think that like, I feel like I'm always this student of the sport and I'm currently being always getting thrown things that I dunno how to respond to and then learning and then taking it forward. And that's what Tarawera felt like for me, even just now, I was like, oh, you know, 12 years in the sport and I can't believe I'm still just like getting thrown new things and stuff.

But, um, the triathlon was just kind of, I wanted to train, but I didn't wanna outrun my love of running as I had done prior to Covid. So it felt like just like a really nice way to, you're training, you're moving differently. It's definitely less impact on the body between swim and cycles, so it felt very healthy compared to just obnoxious amounts of running.

And you know, I just realized that my mentality gets me 90% through a Ironman. You know, I'm kind of, I'm so unrelentingly optimistic about it. I'm just like, oh, okay swim good. That's the hardest part 'cause I'm definitely a land animal and then get off the bike and I get to celebrate with the sport that I love and know the most and I know how to suffer in.

And so it was just such a fun thing to do and I haven't let go of it because it brings so much to my training, but also just my attitude. I just love the different community, a different sport. It still feels like progress in all sports and for my running. And I just love what it's done for me. And I'm so grateful for triathlon but I'm not a professional triathlete. People are always telling me or asking me, and it's not true. It's merely the hobby level and I run professionally.

Annie: Okay, but didn't I see that you're at like World Championships of Tri- of the Ironman? 

Lucy: Yeah. So through the, you can qualify my age group, so it's not, there's the professionals.

Annie: Okay. Okay. Cool. 

Lucy: Age groups. Yeah. Yeah, 

Annie: Sure. 

Lucy: Yeah. 

Annie: Okay. Good to know. 

Lucy: Yeah. Yeah. 

Annie: Still bloody impressive from where I'm standing. And so my last question to you there's seems to be a real surge of people into the ultra running sport. I remember probably, I reckon I heard about it for the first time, yeah, maybe about 15 years ago, this guy telling me, I saw this thing about these people that literally run like a hundred kilometers and then we were looking at it and we're like, no, it's a hundred miles. And like, just like, what? Like that, you know, it must be like two people in the world. And then turned out it was a thing already, but then it just seems like more and more people are getting into it. People who just are kind of a casual park run runners are now thinking about doing really big runs. How do you feel about that? Is it like the more the merrier or is it like, hang on, maybe let's not all be quite so hasty. What do you think? 

Lucy: My concern with the attitude about it is that it makes running seem like you have to be on this progress of up and more is more, you know, no longer is park run plenty, you know, and 10Ks is fabulous. And the half marathon, the marathon is even now like a diminished amount of to run. And the hundred mile is the new 100K. And we see people now running across countries and circumnavigating things and I love it. I think it's awesome. But I always want to reiterate that these events and these distances, they come at a cost, you know, you're putting your body through an exceptional amount of stress and even your organs and your hormones and just your body, like, because it's getting so big, it's getting so normalized, you know, I will now like speak to a group and say, oh, I ran a hundred Ks three weeks ago. And they're like, oh yeah, okay, cool. And you're just like, no, no, hang on, hang on.

It's a really long way. Yeah. And I just kind of, I always want people to realize that participating in park run, if that's your Everest, if that's your everything, that is everything. You don't need to be looking for more or faster or longer or hillier or more gnarly and you know, that's not necessary for you to enjoy this sport and to be a part of it.

And I think that's just kind of, I think it's great. The more the merrier, like the more, especially, you know, for representation of different communities and ethnicities and showing different ways of doing it and sizes and shapes, just like I saw at a small level at that race, to see it on a global scale is really cool.

But I never wanted to taint, you know, I did an ultra not long ago, and I did the 100K and my brother did the 50K and it was his first 50K. And I was at the finish line and I saw him and I could hear him talking to someone and he said, oh, I just did the 50K, my sister did the big race.

And I was like, no, we can't speak like that. We can't say I only, I just, this is a huge achievement and if you compare, if you're gonna constantly compare to how I do it or the distance that I do, just because I'm related to you as your sister, it's ridiculous. Mm-hmm. And so I really want people to own what they do and to do it proudly and not to feel like this must ramp up. And it seems to be that people are ramping really quickly. I'm always like, just enjoy. Just take your time, take your steps. If you don't wanna do it, go back. Yeah. That's my only hesitation towards the growth of the sport. 

Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And it seems like to me, like obviously you were talking about the menstrual cycle being like this green light of like Yep, you're good to go. And then it seems like the other kind of metric is that it's still fun, like-

Lucy: Totally. 

Annie: That there's still some enjoyment in it. 

Lucy: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's like, you know, chase what sets your heart on fire and be just acutely aware of if that fire starts to fizzle because, uh, it's pretty easy to get sucked in with the FOMO and the wanting to be at events and stuff.

 I've done it, I've outrun my love of running and I've managed to rekindle it, but I'm just now acutely aware of yeah, how hot it's burning and where it's burning for. 

Annie: Yeah. Amazing. Lucy, thank you so much. It's been amazing talking to you. I feel like it's been so good. There's questions that I've had literally over the last few years that I've been like, when do I get to talk to Lucy?

So, so great to finally get to ask you. Thank you so much for your time. I'm gonna share your Instagram handle on the show notes, so if people do wanna get in on the amazing social media life of Lucy. You're incredible at that as well, by the way, if you ever decide not to run, like you're just a really amazing communicator .

Lucy: Oh, thank you. Sometimes, I dunno why I do it, but that's nice to hear. It reminds me of that some people appreciate it, which is good. 

Annie: Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, well, thank you so much. 

Lucy: Thanks, Annie. Have a