Survivor, Sport & Standing Up for Women with Kirby Bentley

This week I had the privilege of speaking with Kirby Bentley, a proud Noongar Yamatji woman whose life and work spans professional netball, AFLW, art, business, playing on Australian Survivor (twice!) and powerful advocacy as an ambassador for Djirra Victoria. Kirby is the essence of a natural leader.

Kirby shares her story with honesty and generosity. We talk about her childhood, her journey from netball into football, and her experience on Survivor. 

She also speaks about the loss of her Aunty Andrea to family violence, and how that tragedy continues to fuel her voice and advocacy. 

⚠️ CW: As we do discuss family violence, parts of Kirby's story are confronting and may be distressing. Please take care of yourself and only listen if this feels okay to you. 

Kirby’s perspective on leadership, resilience, allyship, and living fully is both grounded and inspiring. I walked away from this conversation feeling moved and energised, and I know you will too. 

Djirra Victoria
Djirra provides culturally safe and accessible services for Aboriginal people. The core of their work is preventing and addressing family violence. Djirra is a place where culture is shared and celebrated and where practical support is available to all Aboriginal women and particularly to Aboriginal people who are currently experiencing family violence or who have experienced family violence in the past.

• Access their services, find out more or get involved at: djirra.org.au
• Follow Djirra Victoria on instagram: @djirravic

Follow Kirby Bentley on instagram: @kirbybentley 

Let's Connect!
Please get in touch with any questions, suggestions for future episode topics, and to let me know how you're going applying what I share in the podcast in your own life.

Come say hi on instagram: @_anniecarter

And head to my website anniecarter.com.au for some free gifts, and to sign up for emails from me.

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Transcript

Annie:  Hey, good to be with you again and I have been so looking forward to sharing this episode with you for quite some time now. So today's episode is a conversation that I had with Kirby Bentley. Now, if you don't know Kirby, you are going to be very glad that I introduced you to her. Kirby is a proud Noongar-Yamatji woman, and her bio is pretty epic. To touch on just some of the highlights, she was a professional netballer, and then she went on to play AFLW, that's Australian Rules Football, for Carlton and Fremantle, and then on to assistant coaching. She is an artist, she is a business owner, and she's been on the TV show Survivor twice, most recently on the Australia vs the World season, which was intense.

Kirby is also an ambassador for Djirra Victoria. Djirra provides culturally safe and accessible services for Aboriginal people. And the core of their work is preventing and addressing family violence. So Djirra is a place where culture is shared and celebrated and where practical support is available to all Aboriginal women and particularly to Aboriginal people who are currently experiencing family violence or who have experienced family violence in the past. So in my business, Eve, we've been supporting Djirra and their work for several years now. We participate in the Pay the Rent movement where 1% of all revenue that comes into the business is paid to a local Aboriginal community controlled organisation and in our case we pay that to Djirra. And we also donate funds from a couple of events that we host each year. It's such important work that they do, and we're really honoured to support them. And it was through this partnership that I met Kirby. So I was meeting with one of the team from Djirra to explore how we could do more together between Eve and Djirra and how we could support them further. And being the ambassador for Djirra, Kirby came along. And in that meeting that I had with her that day, she shared why she had become an ambassador for Djirra through telling the story of her Aunty Andrea, who was a victim of family violence and ultimately killed by her husband. She shares about that in this conversation that I'm sharing with you today. So a content warning around that. It is really confronting and could be distressing. So please take care of yourself and only listen if this feels okay to you.

For me, as well as heartbreaking to hear the story, it was just so infuriating in the numerous repeated ways in which her Aunty Andrea was failed by the system. And it really, really just points to how important the work that Djirra is doing really is. So I'm going to pop some links for Djirra's website and their socials in the show notes, and please do connect with them. There's lots of ways that you can support what they do, donating, volunteering, and really, really importantly, amplifying their voice. They are often speaking out really important issues, advocating for Aboriginal women. And so it's a really important and powerful thing to do to just bring more and more attention to what it is that they're saying in whatever way that you can. So whether that's about having a conversation with a friend about what they have shared or about reposting what they post on their socials, putting it out there when they call for engagement, say to sign a petition or to show up in a particular way, you could do that too.

Of course, I will also put Kirby's Instagram details into the show notes so you can follow her as well. So in this conversation, we cover a lot and already we're talking about her coming back for another episode because there's still loads that I'm keen to chat with her about. Looking forward to that already. But for now, let's get into this one. 

Kirby Bentley, thank you so much for being here on Yes, You.

Kirby: Thanks for having me. I'm pretty excited about this conversation.

Annie: Yeah, me too, me too. I am on Wurundjeri country at the moment. This is where I live and work and record. Whereabouts are you?

Kirby: I'm on Wurundjeri country as well. I'm a Noongar-Yamaji woman though, so I'm here visiting and it's really important culturally that we acknowledge that we are on somebody else's country and to feel welcomed is to know that we're safe as well. So

Annie: Yeah. So you were a professional netball player, AFLW player and coach. You have been an artist, you're a business owner, you've been on Survivor now twice, and you're an ambassador for Djirra. And I reckon I probably haven't covered it. There's probably lots more in there as well. But I'm keen to get started with who was Kirby before all of that? What was it like for you growing up? And how do you feel like that shaped you as a person that you are today?

Kirby: Yeah, that's a good question. I was a country girl, like I grew up in Mount Barker, Western Australia, and I was a pretty naive kid and I struggled in school. So I'm a visual hands-on learner. So I don't even think I handed any homework in, if I could remember that at all, just because of my learning styles. And knowing that now as an adult, I look back and just could see why I was struggling so much. And being in a country town, growing up in the 90s, there was white Australia and there was black Australia. So I I didn't really understand any other ethnicities. I thought the American accent was just for the movies. I thought Australia was the world. That's how naive I really was.

But as a country kid and as I'm the eldest as well, but my mum really tried to keep me in a kid's place and allow me just to be a kid and be free to be that. So I wasn't exposed to a lot of things that I feel like a lot of kids are exposed to today with social media and all of that access that they have. I'm pretty fortunate, like I. Yeah, I wanted to play for the West Coast Eagles with, um, the Matera's and Wirrpanda, obviously I'm a woman, so I didn't realize that I, that wasn't a thing. So yeah, growing up I started playing netball at age of 14 and, and that's sort of where my netball journey started and that's sort of where my netball journey started. Yeah, so I used to go down and watch my school friends train in netball, because I was a bit of a tomboy, and Kirby wasn't exactly a name like Chloe, so you couldn't really tell that I was a girl. So I used to play nippers, like football with the boys, and all of my mates, they were my best friends, all the boys. And I used to watch netball training, but I never wanted to play because I didn't want to wear a skirt. 

So I just remembered being down there, it would have been maybe 12 turning 13. And one Saturday, they didn't have enough players. And Mrs. Stevens, her name was, she was one of my school teachers, but also the netball coach, turned up to my house. on a Saturday morning and knocked on the door. I think it was like seven in the morning. Everyone was still asleep. And I was having a whisper argument with her about, no, I'm not playing if I have to wear a skirt. And it took me about 30 minutes. And eventually I convinced her that if I'll play, if I can wear shorts underneath it. And I played my first game in netball. I think I played, would have been maybe seven games. And then I got talent ID'd. So like I'm 13 turning 14 and the trials were in Perth and there were 200 girls. I don't know the rules. I hand passed it in one of the games. That's how, like, I just played it and, yeah, just used sort of a natural flair. But, yeah, I turned up to these trials and there were 200 girls there.

I had broken English because I couldn't really speak well as it was. And I also, you know, had a bit of my language in that as well. So I was pretty shy when I met new people because of that. But yeah, went up to these trials, 200 girls. And I just remember seeing at the bottom of the phase, it was phase one, phase two, phase three, it said Canberra. And all I knew is we had to get on an airplane to go to Canberra. So I worked my ass off and it ended up being the state 17s team that I made and ended up playing representing WA from that age onwards and all Australia ever since and National League from the age of 16. So that was sort of my transition.

Annie: Wow, that's wild and so football was your first love though and then you got drawn into netball but ended up coming back to to AFL 

Kirby:  Yeah, so again, going back to the naivety as, as a young kid, I was playing footy with these two boys on school holidays and, um, like I said, my, my dream was to play for the Eagles with the Matera brothers and, and Wirrpanda and my whole family were Eagle supporters. So that's what I wanted, that's what I wanted to do.

 But yeah, as a visual learner, I found out, um, roundabout way that the boys had something different than what I had, and it was a really realisation for me. And I was shocked. I was like, so I can't do this and I can't do that and I can't do all of these things. Like what can I do? So yeah, very, very early ages I wanted to play AFL and obviously the reality setting and That's why my netball journey sort of took off. But it wasn't until 2009, my mum's sister was murdered, domestic violence.

It was national wide news, 13 kids, 12 girls, one boy, and the seven youngest came to live with us. So the reason why that was sort of a turning point, not only because of how significant that was, I also had a very realisation at 24 that I lost the relationship with my two sisters because netball is a really selfish sport when it needs to be. It's all about you. It's if you can get on the court, it's if you're performing, if you're an Australian, it's all about yourself. That's what I felt through my experiences.

So unfortunately, yeah, when you're immature and you're making decisions that are around that, losing my relationship with my sisters and watching my mum lose her sister in the way that she did, I just didn't want that. So I wanted to step into my sister's name's Ashley. I wanted to step into her world and she was playing footy. So that's how football started. So I was 24 when that happened. 

Annie: Yeah, wow. There's lots I want to explore there. But first, just to go back to the thing about the skirt being a barrier for participation. It's so full on. Like, I reckon that that is a lot of girls' experience where it's like, actually, no, I don't want to do this if I have to wear this particular thing to play a particular sport. It's really intense to think that maybe that could have been the thing that stopped you from being able to take that step. 

Kirby: Yeah, well, yeah, it really could have been. And I think in today's age, we're able to sort of, like if boys want to wear skirts, non-binary people, whoever wants to wear skirts, they can. And if they don't, they don't have to. I feel like that should always be an option because, you know, obviously you've got your team uniform and that's a part of it as well. But yeah, I just, I really struggled with it because I really wasn't tomboy and I was really sort of, I wasn't confused. I knew that I was a girl and a woman and I'm, that's just who I am. But yeah, it was just a different headspace for me. The reality wasn't reality for me for a while. 

Annie: Yeah. Crazy to think that there's these limiting things of like, okay, you have to have to do this to fit in this space. 

Kirby: Very conforming, isn't it?

Annie: Yeah. Yeah, it really is. It becomes such a huge part of your identity. And so if something that you have to wear as part of participating in that feels like really kind of like a disconnect with who you are. 

Kirby: Yeah. I think at that time when I was first sort of combating, you know, like the acceptance of wearing skirts, that was challenging, but- as I stepped into the elite environment and I had a, I had some really incredible coaches that embrace my sort of natural talent, me as a person and taught me how to, you know, buy into a team and that sort of unity and you walk stronger and taller when you're, when you do look the same and you are walking the same with your shoulders back. So I really embraced that. And so, yeah, I think I just accepted it and, and started to wear everything with a sense of pride, which is, which is good. I think you need that when you're a kid. 

Annie: I definitely want to talk with you more about your aunty and your experience in your family. First, can I ask you, you said that netball felt inherently kind of selfish and then you moved into football to follow and be where your sister was. But do you feel like that there's a difference there? Is football less selfish? 

Kirby: Yeah. Yeah, as long as you're, as a netballer, as long as you are in a team, in the state team, in the national team or whatever, you're front of mind, then you're relevant. You're important to the sport and to those teams. But the second that you aren't, they just no longer need you. And it's very much like that. And stepping into football and coming from such a high performing elite environment in the netball world, football was so relaxed. And it's just, you know, you've got women who embrace their sexuality, who own it, people who are figuring it out. And we're playing on a Sunday morning after the boys have just chopped the ground up, like it's just random. So in 2009, I just, I really enjoyed it. I liked the idea of just being free and not held down. Yeah. And being looked at and, yeah, I guess identified in a way that you're, how many passes you're throwing away, like, you know, all these different skills that you just, I don't know how many hours I put into that game. 

But I think what was disappointing when Aunty Andrea did pass away and when that happened and it was national wide news, the coach and WA Netball at the time just, we didn't hear from them. I had given so much time away. to that game representing WA and, you know, being in a National League squad for years, it's just to not even get a card or any sort of flowers or anything. I think I just felt let down by them. So, yeah, everything just shifted in that moment.

Annie: Yeah. That's really shocking to me. Like, yeah. I mean, any sort of team sport, you think the community, the team, the is so important and surely that filters out into like life in general, let alone like a massive tragic appearance in your life.

Kirby: Yeah. You think that life, and I think for our friendships, right? So you'd have as friends or people that you, you know, would consider your family. There are definitely a few girls or women now that are like my sisters and we're still, we're still that to this day. And they were there for me and my family for whatever, you know, we needed, but from a sporting organisation, you know, the difference between being in a football community club and being completely embraced, you know, for all your differences, they, yeah, they were far more considerate and understanding and I guess sort of showed the love and support more than netball did. I think that's probably why I went to my first game in netball in, since I left in 2009 last year. And it was only because I was an Australian Aboriginal team and one of my best friends were coaching. So, and I want to support our girls in that game, but to be successful.

Annie: But you hadn't felt like you could or wanted to go to a game in all that time?

Kirby: Well, I guess there's sort of different levels or layers to it. That's probably one sticky point. The other is we've had some very talented Aboriginal players in this game, very talented, playing at the highest level, even, you know, in the Australian squad at times. But we just don't embrace it. We don't see it. And you can't be what you can't see. 

I can't understand why there's two players that I can think of why they're not in front of a camera speaking to the game itself. So our girls can see what they can be if they're not going to be a netballer. It's similar to football. We're getting the opportunities, but it's still not there. And so I think that's an additional layer to it. I'm driven by empowerment, empowering women.

Annie: And how does that influence the way that you lead? You came on as a coach in AFLW. Yeah. What does all of this experience kind of mean for you as a leader?

Kirby: As a 39-year-old, I'll only ever do things that are aligned with my values. So empowering women is something that I'll always do and have the back of, their backs, you know, to stand tall and to have the uncomfortable conversation because if we don't, who will? And women have done it enough for us. 

As an Aboriginal person and as an Aboriginal woman, it's really important that I do the same thing. And it's all about timing. It's, you know, talk about survival. It's all strategy. It's timing. It's making sure that, you know, you've got them in a place that they're accepting the what you're saying rather than being deflective. And it is a challenging thing to do, but sport has allowed me to do that because I was good at it, which meant that I had buy-in from my teammates who weren't Aboriginal. But we walk together and we have similar understandings because of our differences to what society would call normal. So if there's gays or lesbians or non-binary players, as a black woman or an Aboriginal woman, that's all relatable, right? So we can stand tall. 

So I'm starting to think what is actually normal anymore because we are so different and because we do offer so many different things, strengths and values. Even the things that we experience, it doesn't mean like I lost an aunty, but that doesn't mean that it affects my sister the same. It might affect it completely differently. And just knowing that and understanding that, but owning that for my own self and then being able to share the knowledge when it is being accepted. And we just need to know when it's not. Does that even answer your question? It's pretty long winded. Sorry. 

Annie: No, that's good. That's good. Let's go to Survivor. So you were not into Survivor before you went on it the first time. And so at the time that we're recording this, as far as people have seen, you've been on Survivor once and then coming is the Survivor Australia versus the world, which we know that you're on. And I assume I can't ask you very much about that. But I might have to get you back again later to talk more. But so you were not a Survivor fan before you went on it. What led you to go on it and what were you looking to get out of it?

Kirby: Yeah, look, I absolutely did not know a thing about Survivor. So just to circle back, I started coaching after footy, which was three years later, because I didn't really accept that I didn't retire on my own terms. My body sort of gave up and everything else. And stepping into footy and coaching, it was all new. It was cool it was fun but I didn't know if that was you know where I wanted to be and then I transitioned into construction work and I got an assistant job at another club and at that time i saw on link it was on a LinkedIn post that it was like oh casting for survivor and I was like I sent it to my player manager at the time and I was like do you know what this is and he sort of gave me a quick brief he didn't even know what it was and I was like oh that sounds like it could be a small scale of what society is like as an Aboriginal woman from the country navigating through male dominated worlds I feel like I can have a pretty good crack here as long as I get voted off first, I'm good. 

So yeah, I applied. I had an interview and then I didn't hear back from him for ages. And then they called back and said, oh, can you send a video in? And I was like, I was like, absolutely not. Like I'm not an actress. I can't just turn it on and turn it on. So I didn't send the video in. So I didn't hear from him again for ages. And I don't know whether... like somebody couldn't go or whatever, but they eventually called and they're like, Oh, we're going to take you. We have no idea what we're going to get from you, but you're going as a rebel. And I was like, I don't know if that really works for me, but maybe I do disrupt the norms.

Annie: Yeah. Oh yeah. Cause the series, the season was rebels versus Titans. Which you could have been either. 

Kirby: Yeah, well, that's what they said. And I'm so glad that I was on the Rebels tribe, like, because it was wild. And, you know, I sort of created the chaos because when change happens, people get uncomfortable and they can't settle. So that was the whole idea behind that strategy. But yeah, I applied, they said yes. And I had no idea. I didn't know anyone that knew the game. So I rang up my best friend and I was like, hey, SG, sister girl. Hey, sister girl, I'm going on this show. I'm not, I won't be able to be contactable for like three months if, you know, if I do all right. And she's like, oh, where are you going? And I was like, this show called Survivor have you heard of it and she goes oh my god super fan told me everything and I was like I have no idea what idol means I don't know what you're talking about yeah I'll let you know when I get back so yeah that's that was that process.

Annie: That's unbelievable considering that there are just so many people that are like, yeah, the super fans and like applied multiple times and all of that, that they're like, no, we want you.

Even when you were like, yeah, okay. 

Kirby: Outta everyone who knew nothing and I gave them nothing in my interviews as well, so I'm so grateful that they. Yeah, it took the pun.

Annie: Yeah. There must have been something mysterious and alluring and made them want you. And so then did you prepare at all, like at that point, once you knew you were going on it, were you like, okay, now I need to understand what an idol is and what immunity is and all the different things? Or did you just go, I'm just gonna rock up and, and take it as it comes?

Kirby: I did exactly that. I rocked up and just sort of took it as it came. And I think because of who I am, the way I grew up and my learning style, I think that just, it works for me. So, you know, if I was coming to your profession, I need to visually see what you do to be able to understand what that looks like. And then I can practice it. So in a game like this, if it's networking and it's connecting with people, I can do that. I do that. I've done that with multiple people and personalities in different moods and you know, all those sort of layers that come with individuals. So what is like 13 other people on an island? What's the difference? Yeah, completely. As long as I didn't go first, that was my one rule that I said to the producers. I said, if I don't go first, I'm going to be happy.

Annie: Okay. Well, you definitely didn't go first.

Kirby: I definitely didn't.

Annie: You came this close to winning the bloody thing.

Kirby: Oh, I spoke to Feras this morning and he goes, I wish I played my idol for you. Maybe things might be different for me now. And I'm like, oh, whatever.

Annie: Oh yeah. Wow.

Kirby: He's doing incredibly well so much love for him and it's a game as well like we're out there I don't know you can see in the background with us we're we're either tormenting each other or we're not teasing somebody else and then on camera when you see us actually going at each other that is all us playing the game and we're able to compartmentalize and separate the two which is not many players can do that and we did that on our season and then not many players like shut the door when we land here they just continue to carry it across but you know, it is half a million dollars, but it just wasn't mine to have. 

Annie: Yeah, sure. I saw, that's amazing that you can be like half a million dollars, it just wasn't mine. But honestly, like you were so impressive on Survivor, all rounder, strategically, physically, socially, all of it. But I reckon that that, what you just described is what I loved watching the most, that you actually just seemed to be loving it. Like you were just having fun and that just came through so much. And even I saw the interview that they did with you after you'd been voted out. And you were just like, I'd do it all again. And even that you were actually saying, I'm really looking forward to now just being friends with people. We put the game aside and now we just get to know each other in a different way. It was just really amazing that you were just embracing the game of it so much, it seemed. 

Kirby: Yeah, well, it's not personal at all. I relate it to sport where I can go and play against one of my best friends and we can be playing in a grand final. I will not go easy on her and she will not go easy on me and that's just what it is. We can say whatever and do whatever and it stays out in the field. It doesn't transition off the field. So, yeah, playing this game, it's the same. It's not personal and it is-- It's manipulative. There's lies. There's deception. There's all of these – sort of nasty traits that people can choose to play with or they can play an honest game. Yeah. 

And I don't, if I didn't want to tell a lie, I either got somebody else to say something or I just didn't say anything at all. So I try to stay true to that. And again, it's hard because of the values and who, who the things that I align with as a person outside of the game. So women, empowerment, Aboriginal people, all of those things. And you never want to badmouth anyone, ever, from my perspective, because why? It's already challenging enough as a female. Yeah. in a game like that I yeah I learned that it's still a male dominated space.

Annie: Yeah, yeah it really is you seemed on there to be such a natural leader like people talk about natural leaders and watching you on Survivor I just like that's what natural like really natural leadership seemed to be to me people just seem to kind of look to you. Even you were not like the rallying everybody or standing up in front of everybody, making a scene, but just people seem to, even if they were not in an alliance with you or anything, they just still, it's like you mattered. What you said seemed to just have an impact and what you did. And, I actually, I was looking back in preparation for this chat. I was looking back through some interviews and things with you over time. 

And actually I came across this interview with someone that had played AFL with you. I can't remember who it was, but she said that playing footy, that she, even when she was playing, I can't remember whether it was on your team or against you, but she would just find herself on the field, just wanting to actually stop playing to watch your game because you just had this something, just this presence about you when you played. And I was like, yeah, that's what I feel like I saw on Survivor as well. There's just this kind of something that people seem to respect and pay attention to. And maybe if they were not close with you, fear. Does that ring true? 

Kirby:  Yeah, yeah, I think it does. I think as I have matured, it's really important that I'm able to connect on a deeper level with people and be really vulnerable and true to that vulnerability and sort of owning it because there are so many things that are happening in the world and I don't know what you're going through today and I don't, you know, one thing that I could say could just, you know, send you left instead of, you know, helping you turn right. 

So I think it's really important that I share that with people so that they see me differently because I know that I can present like I am hardheaded or not very approachable and that I'm angry because when I'm concentrating, I'm frowning and I have this really serious face and I get caught out about it, which is so fun. But that's not who I am. And in the early days, I really wanted to get to know the people out there before they were starting to play the game. And because I'd done all of that work, all hours of the night, giving them hot rocks, talking about family, speaking about, you know, Aunty Andrea, speaking about suicide as well. Like all of these really deep, very true conversations. I found that a lot of people were able to relate with me, which meant that I had a trust with them, even when they were sceptical. 

So there was one episode when Kelly went to the Titans and truly we could have just thrown the challenge and she could have stayed over there and I could have had one lesson by line. And or they could have just all voted her out, but they didn't. And I don't know why, but they all looked at me and they all said, we need to get rid of Kelly. And I was like, absolutely not. And just left it. And I was like, they're really not going to like rally together. It was wild. And I just thought it was probably around then when I started to really enjoy the game because I was like, oh, my God, they are playing in fear. And all I want to know is if it's not their name and if it's not their ride and die's name, then they're solid. But if it is their ride and die's, it's not their name, then they're still solid. So I was like, you're not getting rid of Ri or Kelli. You're not getting rid of any of my arms and legs. 

Annie: Yeah, yeah, I love it. And maybe that's the thing as well that you didn't seem to be fearful you seemed like you were just kind of up for however things planned out and it's interesting that you say that people call you out on on looking really serious or scary or whatever I didn't get that I just I just felt like it's like even when you're most kind of serious or intense it's just like you always had just like a little bit of a cheeky smile behind there.

Kirby: Yeah, well, that's genuinely, that's who I am. I am probably a lot more smart ass than I am anything else. Because, you know, like, and that's sort of my love language. If I am teasing you or tormenting you, then we're going to be friends. It was such a cool game. It was such a fun way to sort of step in and out of things and creating that chaos and that disrupts. was one of the key pillars for it so and I didn't know when I was going to go I didn't I just wanted to play fearlessly I wanted to just have a crack and if I can make something happen I will if I feel like I'm being a little bit too front of mind of everyone I would either throw hurricane Kelly forward or I'll just sit back and yeah it was just really fun to navigate.

Annie: Yeah it looked like fun. You made it look really fun. Can I ask what's the hardest thing about being on survivor? 

Kirby: So our first eight days it rained and we didn't build a shelter well. We were wet. We also, we had just the clothes that we were wearing. So I think I had shorts, this heavy crew jumper, a t-shirt and bathers. And it was, we had no fire. So no food, no fire and we were wet. So I found that really, that was probably the hardest. Other than that, yeah, I was there to play. But people struggle with sleep they struggle with food. This is gonna sound really mean, but if I was in an alliance, I think back in merge when Jaden was around and we'd started to work together, I would give him extra food so that everyone else was a little more hungry because when you're angry, you don't make very good decisions. I didn't care if I ate or not like, I was fine Yeah. Some people really, they were bothered.

Annie: Yeah. I always imagine when I imagine being on Survivor, I imagine sleep being the challenge. Like I'm a light sleeper anyway. And I'm like, how the hell do they sleep when they're all lined up like that out, you know, expose to elements.

Kirby: If you think about it, everyone, if you're not awake and watching, somebody might be talking about you, ready to get you out. So I was a meerkat. I was around. I was like, who just rolled over? Why are they moving? I wasn't so much paranoid on this season. But yeah, it was... I don't think it just, I think your adrenaline has you going.

Annie: Okay. Yeah. And does everyone just stink?

Kirby: Yes.

Annie: Okay.

Kirby: Yeah. But we, but we stopped smelling us. I was in the beach in the morning and in the nighttime and I had a, like a challenge set of clothes, like a t-shirt and shorts. And then I had clothes that I slept in. I'm just, we smelled rotten. I've washed my clothes three or four times and they still smell. Pretty bad. I'm thinking about auctioning them off or like, I don't know, doing some sort of fundraiser with them.

Annie: Yeah. Amazing.

Kirby: I want to put up with it.

Annie: Side note, your Aboriginal flag bathers just were iconic, you know, it felt like just awesome.

Kirby: Yeah, they were cool. I loved them. 

Annie: Yeah, so good. Okay, one more thing about Survivor and then we'll move on. So going into it again, without saying anything you can't say, did you approach it differently?

Kirby: Yeah. No, not really. It's hard because you can go and watch seasons back, but you never have the same players. And I still haven't had the same mentality with sport. It doesn't matter if you play Collingwood next week and you play them two weeks later. It's not going to be the same game because all the conditions are different. 

Mental state and frame of mind is different. Just there's so many variables. So yeah, sort of winning the same. And with like, I've got nothing to lose. I don't have the queen title like everyone around me. They're queen kings and gods. I'm the new kid on the block, so I'm the little sister. And I went in with the princess, you know, sort of attitude and just sort of embraced it. And they were fun. They're just, yeah, incredible the way that they just play the game and yeah, they embrace it so differently. It's cool.

Annie: Okay. Yeah. I'm so looking forward to watching that.

Kirby: It's going to be fun. I think everyone will love it. 

Annie: Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So let's talk about Djirra. You are an ambassador for Djirra. And in my business, Eve, we've been supporting Djirra for about seven years and we were having a meeting about ways that we can expand that partnership. And you came along to that meeting and I didn't know that you were coming. And I was like, it's funny because when I saw you on Survivor, I was like, that's Kirby from football, from AFL. And then when you walked into my studio, I was like, that's Kirby from AFL and Survivor. I was like, whoa. And so it turns out that you are an ambassador for Djirra and you shared that it was through a personal experience with your aunt that you ended up working with them as an ambassador. Can you share about that?

Kirby: Yeah. So when Aunty Andrea was murdered, Antoinette Braybrook, who is the CEO of Djirra, she flew over with a couple of other people. And at that time, we're obviously in the state of minds that we were, but they flew over with the intent to highlight a lot of the flaws that the system had in their failings for the protection of Aunty Andrea and the kids. And with Annie and the people around her and the support that she had given our family, she's just now. We're claiming her as a Noongar woman. She's a part of our family now. 

But if it wasn't for her, maybe we wouldn't have had an inquest. Maybe things wouldn't have been highlighted from the failings of the police and the discrimination that they continue to have against Aboriginal women and that systemic racism that is happening in 2025. They were meant to change in 2010 after Aunty Andrea's passing. There's that child protection, all the legal services, which is all of what Djirra does. So, you know, Djirra is an Aboriginal community controlled organisation and it's, you know, it delivers culturally safe family violence support. And yeah, that's essentially what Annie did for us.

Annie: Yeah. For people who are not familiar with what happened to your Aunty Andrea, are you okay to share some more?

Kirby: Yeah, Andrea Louise Isaacs, her married name's Pickett. So her and her husband, well, they were married and I think he was the only man that she'd been with. Like I said, they had 13 kids and there was a stage probably a year and a half prior to her passing, she had told my mum and their brother that she was going to leave him. And so she did. So she's got seven kids, said he's going to leave. And our family was sort of like, well, what's going on? Because we've only ever known them together. But what came from that is the physical abuse wasn't what she was experiencing as much. It was more psychological. And from having a metal bladed fan over her face while she was sleeping and to wake her up to that, to also the animals, he would sit the kids in a circle and look her dead in the eyes and just kill the animals in front of all the kids and say, this is how easy it is. This how easy it is for me to do this and I can do this to anyone straight in front of the kids and when you're a kid you don't know any different.

You're sitting there and these are your my parents were my leaders so a lot of who I am stems from them my attitude and my approach to things so I can only imagine that that was considered normal to them because you know who was going to call that out so you know that was all happening and we're starting to learn about this and so she had left and he then eventually got a restraining order and he had breached it a few times, turned up to the house and there was a bunch of letters saying, I love Andrea Louise front and back with a machete on it on top of her diaries. And she had found that because her another aunty, my mum went back to get it and found the letters and they just sort of got spooked. And as they walked out, he came from a manhole that he had dug and that he'd been living in waiting for her. So that was just one of maybe three or four breaches of restraining orders.

And she'd written in her diary that he is going to kill me. He will go to any length to do that. So she had stayed with us. She had stayed with other family members. And then eventually she was with my mom's cousin or her cousin. So there were two men and two other women and aunty Andrea, and there were probably 13 kids in that three bedroom house.

It was a summer night in January and it was hot. So it was 30 and all the kids, you know, they're restless. So yeah, the uncle that was protecting her just said, I'll take the kids to the beach. Just get it, you know, cool them down. Can run it all out. So yeah, no worries. One of the kids stayed back. One of the other uncle went to bed and the aunties were all sitting in the lounge room. And at that stage, he was already at the house standing on the inside of the fence. And when my uncle left with the kids, he had jumped through the back window and stabbed the uncle. And then he yelled out to all of the aunties to run and he climbed back out and he caught her at the front. So It was a very horrific way of going, of leaving this world. And she was such an amazing woman. She was just incredible and funny. And she was starting to sort of find herself. And, you know, a lot of people say before somebody passes, they look like they've got a glow about them. And she really did. And she looked like she was, yeah, free and happy. 

Annie: Wow. I am so sorry. Thanks for sharing that. Just so horrific, like such a horrific experience for her and your whole family. I watched The Four Corners story about her and about all of this. And I was like talking back to my, I was playing it on my computer, just like over and over the repeated failings of individuals within the system and the system itself or systems and, yeah, it's like I thought I had an understanding of ways in which system fails women and the ways in which system fails Aboriginal people and specifically and particularly Aboriginal women. But that just blew my mind. Like I was just constantly like, what? Like, I just couldn't believe it over and over and over. And then I saw a thing, an interview with you where you said that as the family, you had encouraged her to go to the police, which she had done repeatedly. And you said that may have been our first mistake.

Kirby: Yeah, well, because like you look at the police and there are some great police people that, you know, there are some people that are genuinely there to protect, to serve and protect. Unfortunately, in WA, as a Noongar person, especially in Perth, because so many of our women do flee to the police and say, you know, tell them about the domestic violence that they're experiencing. And more often than not, they don't have anywhere else to go. So they do end up back with the perpetrator. And that's, you know, maybe it's a lack of resources and support that that woman has. Also has kids that she needs to feed and house and put a roof over. And she's got nowhere else to go. And that's her only option. 

She's going to choose that for her kids, not because she's doing it because she wants to put herself back in that situation. But the stereotype around that and the attitude around a lot of the police in WA is that you come in, you make this complaint and then you go back anyway. So what's the point? Like, you know, why are you even here? And that's the same response Aunty Andrea had. Aunty Andrea was completely, everyone has an individual experience. Every single person, regardless of how similar things are, it's different because the emotion is different. 

You're like, whatever your reasons for trying to protect yourself or protect the kids are different. And there's so many variables, once again, as life is. But Aunty Andrea never left until she decided to leave. And that was her fault. She was never going back once she made that decision. But because she was categorised like every other Aboriginal woman, it was not taken seriously. To have a machete sitting on top of her diaries where she had written, he's going to kill me, and she walked out crying and said the same thing to my other aunty, it was just... it was disgusting.

Annie: Absolutely disgusting. In that report, it was saying that there was at least one policeman who was saying, oh, we were just testing to see how serious that she was. Like we were taking a sceptical approach because that's what we do or what we're doing there. And it's like, what more do you need?

Kirby: Well, that's the thing that I don't understand either. Like as women, we can all go in with the same sort of approach, but until that police person goes out and makes an experience observation and a judgment call and gets all the information and has a clear understanding of what is going on, then you can't make any decision. You can't sit behind your desk and say, oh yeah, we're just going to test the waters because I could walk into somewhere and tell them about this experience. You can go in with the same sort of approach, but you'd be crying so maybe they might take that a little more seriously but because my response is calm but I'm you know in like fight flight you know or freeze mode. I'm more in freeze mode but I'm trying to get it out it doesn't mean that is any different. It's the same similar things so go and see it.

Annie: Exactly and you shouldn't have to be tactical like that like how do I get taken seriously do I cry or not cry or do it you know like that just shouldn't even be a factor.

Kirby: No, no, it shouldn't. But, you know, as women, as women, we sort of understand an approach when we're confronted with a situation that makes us uncomfortable and we sort of know how to navigate that. Right. So we can go, all right, I'm just going to call this person out and it's going to be uncomfortable or they're not going to be responsive. So I'll angle it in this way. As an Aboriginal woman, it's just an additional layer to that. Like they already have this perception about me before I even walk into the room. Not only am I a woman, but I'm Aboriginal. 

So it's just, yeah, being able to be hyper-vigilant, hyper-aware, and that's of all of our surroundings. In our home, when we are experiencing domestic violence, a lot of our women have an exit strategy. They know where their little weapons and things place to protect themselves, purely because if they don't, who will? And it shouldn't be the case. It should never be the case. But it is a really real reality. 

Annie: How does that whole experience for you change the way that you see the world, how you live?

Kirby: Yeah, I'm lucky. I consider myself lucky because my mum loses her sister, my nan loses a daughter, my cousins lose both parents, and I still have all of that. So from my perspective, being a sports person, going from netball at a high level, I've sort of gained some sort of drive and discipline and some sort of experience through leadership. Then stepping into football in a male-dominated space with starting off in the early days, I sort of leveraged that to own who I am, embrace it and empower others around me. And I will always, I think I said this earlier, I will always protect and stand up for women, especially our women. And I will call it out. 

And as a 39-year-old in this world navigating, I would never put myself in a situation. Nobody intends to ever put themselves in a situation that creates you know, fear. And if I did, I would like to think that I know how to get out of it, but who's to say that that's the case. Does that make sense? And it's, I would never make any judgment for any decision, any woman make, it doesn't matter how many times they go back. It doesn't matter, you know, if it turns into some sort of substance abuse or whatever, I will always try and find a way to put them in a space like Djirra that can help, that can provide a legal service that can, you know, give that sort of support and know that they have the right people around them.

I am lucky because I've, yeah, I'm in a position that I can speak up and share differently. And Survivor sort of created a platform for me to be able to have those sort of conversations. And as a woman, as women, I feel like we need to, I feel like we need to, you know, Abbie Chatfield calls a lot of people out and she, you know, she goes to town on them, but, and I, and I encourage her to be able to speak and that's a lot of variations of topics there, but yeah, for our women, it's just different. It's harder. We're not considered very hard on the food chain.

Annie: It made me, like, as I said, I've been supporting Djirra and aware of their work for a while and And understanding more of your Aunty Andrea's experience just really highlighted to me again how important work that Djirra does is, even just from the place of being a safe place, like, and being a place where Aboriginal women will be believed, for starters. And that where they can trust, because I can just imagine for everything that you're saying, it would be so difficult and possibly not wise for Aboriginal women to put trust in some of the systems that we have in place. And so then where can you go? So it's amazing that then Djirra is in this space, a place where there can be a trust and genuine support.

Kirby: Yeah, Djirra is incredible and it's relied on donations and, you know, it's all non-for-profit as well. So for us and for the frontline workers to be able to do what they do and to be, you know, to be in a situation because, you know, our women for all we know might have experienced it or, you know, there could be other traumas amongst all that happens. To be able to then step up and support the women that are coming through that door in a time of need is crucial and it could mean life or death. And the money that comes in does mean that because it means that we have upskilled our frontline workers to be able to deliver what they do, understand the pathway or the direction that we can lead these women. 

So if it's legal services, if it's a psychologist, if it's a hospital, like whatever the other services that are required for that woman, they are equipped to be able to do that and deliver that and a lot of our events, we've got Sisters Day Out, which is a great way to celebrate Aboriginal women and women coming together with their kids. And there's hair and makeup and cultural experiences, painting, all these things, but also access to legal services. So if somebody is experiencing things, they can also, that's a time to be able to have the conversations and engage with Djirra as well. So we do hold a lot of events. We do hold fundraising days that do bring some money in.

Annie: So I know that a lot of people who listen to this podcast are interested in being good allies to Aboriginal people and especially women. And so supporting Djirra feels like an obvious way of doing that. How can people support Djirra?

Kirby: Yeah, we've got a donations link that we can share with you. Even if it's $5 a month, every dollar helps, even if it's 12 months, if it's just a one-off payment, all of it makes a huge difference. And like I said, it goes towards a lot of our programs that we do run for empowering our young kids and our women. but our workers that are there to upskill and to be able to do the work that they do and do it well. 

So yeah, we'll be able to send a link, attach a link and an email address. And obviously the more that you share Djirra and you share what we're doing and the more that we speak about the uncomfortable. So, you know, gender violence, violence against women in, you know, from a cultural, not a cultural perspective, it's not a cultural thing, but from an Aboriginal perspective, because there's an additional layer to that, then yeah, the more awareness that we have, it just will change the game. So always, yeah, have the awareness.

Annie: Yeah. Yeah, sure. And we can put those links and things into the show notes so people can get those there. And yeah, like you say, like any financial support, also spreading awareness. So I guess that's one of the things that I like to do when I see Djirra's posting something on Instagram, for example, it's like a really simple thing to just share that on my stories and just kind of put the word out there so that more and more people get to know Djirra and the work that you're doing.

Kirby: Yeah. Yeah, well, look, even if you're in your organisations, if it's a government or any organisation, being able to have the conversation from a gender violence perspective and to be able to share and just have conversations goes a long way. We have 16 days of activism as well. So if you do work for an organisation, if people do work for different companies and they do want to get involved, and come and get active with us, then, you know, that's a time just to be in and amongst it and to, to learn more about it because, you know, you can see, you can see the women that are there. You can also see the work that happens with Djirra. And yeah, I think it's a really important time as well. It's a crucial time for messaging. 

Annie: Yeah. So that's in November, yeah?

Kirby: Yeah

Annie: Yeah. Absolutely. Is there anything else that you want to share about Djirra, your role there, the work you're doing? Anything that you wanna say to people about that?

Kirby: Again, if anyone's working in any organisations and International Women's Day comes up or Gender Violence comes up and there's panel discussions or if there's anything that we can help share the story, if I can come and share the story about Aunty Andrea or if we can speak on male-dominated sports, which is all relatable in a way, then that would be great as well to be able to share what Annie has done from her starting and to what it is now. So from a legal service to now becoming Djirra. Yeah. Any way that we're able to sit in front of more people that aren't already with us.

Annie: Yeah, for sure. So before we finish up, you seem to me to just be someone who lives like full out. You live loud and proud and bold in life and open to possibilities. What advice would you give for people who want to live a big and meaningful life?

Kirby: I am a big believer of anything is possible. And also life is too short and time is precious. It's all those really cliche things, but I started to lose some really close people from a young age and in some really significant ways. And I think that started to sort of shift the narrative and humble me a bit in the sense of staying grounded and acknowledging those things. Like, you know, we can be under pressure with financial stress and, you know, all of these other little stresses, even weight gain, like all these things can affect us in so many ways. 

But being able to stay present or bring yourself back to the now and then start again and know that you can't change what's happened. You can't even change the last minute of you breathing. It's already done. And just to own this moment to then take one step at a time that might change, you know, the way that you think or the way that you see things or, you know, your direction, because we can always, we can get caught up in what we're doing tomorrow, but we haven't even started like 11:30 yet.

Annie: Yeah, totally.

Kirby: Stay present where you need to.

Yeah. Well, thanks so much, Kirby. I think you're a really amazing role model. And it's funny, I think back to when you did come to Eve that day and when you walked in and I was like, I know her, but I didn't say that I knew you initially. And I think that's partly because at Eve, sometimes we have people who have more of a public profile coming to do yoga or to participate in our classes. And I figure that not everybody wants to be constantly having people like, I know you and I'm such a fan and all of that. So I kind of usually my approach is to not kind of say anything about it. 

But I also spent like the first half of our meeting kind of a little bit kind of quietly fangirling and also just like going, at what point am I going to say I do know who you are? Like, this is a bit weird. And after the meeting, Hannah, who was there with us from my team, because she didn't know you, she said, she was like, I wasn't sure what was going on. She's like, why is Annie talking so fast? Yeah. I was like, I must have just been a bit excited. But it was at the point where you said that it meant something to you to be a role model, that you were just trying to be a role model for younger Aboriginal girls and women. That was the point that I let my cover go and was just like, I do know who you are and you are an amazing role model for women in general and no doubt for Aboriginal women and girls. And so, yeah, I'm stoked to have had this chat with you and I hope that we can have some more chats in the future but yeah just thank you for for being that for being such a great role model.

Kirby: Yeah, I appreciate that's a very lovely compliment, it's not I don't actively just sort of go and do that it just is one of those organic things. I think it's like I like knowing that you're empowered and I like knowing I like encouraging you to just back yourself because you can like anyone can and all you need is that sort of push for like, yeah you can do that like go to town like, go play survivor with no clock, just like do what you need to do freeze and you'll be fine and we can. It's not impossible. But yeah when it comes to that I forget that people might know me and then sometimes I'm like well if you do just say so I'm not rude like I don't want to be rude and in saying that I'm also like have I forgotten their name so it's more like a little conversation going in my head as well.  So it's, yeah.

Annie: I guess you don't wanna be like. Don't you know who I am?

Kirby: No, I know. So I've had so many people like, oh, I've, we've met before. And I was like, I don't think we have.

Annie: Yeah. Well, you handle it very well.

Kirby: It's such a great chat. And to be able to share some of my story, a lot of people who watch Survivor wouldn't really know this side of me. A lot of people who haven't watched Survivor wouldn't know that side of me. So yeah. And then the importance of Djirra, I will always do the work for women and Aboriginal people. And I think as women, we have the responsibility to do what our ancestors and elders have done pre us. Like they've made it easy for us to walk the walk and the path that we're walking. So it's our job to take the next step. 

Annie:  Yeah, that's an awesome perspective. Well, yeah, I would love to have you back on here sometime down the track if you're up for it. 'Cause also on this podcast we talk about business and leadership and haven't even touched on your business stuff. So maybe-

Kirby: Yeah, let's, that's, let's talk about the world. Um, the world one

Annie: Amazing sounds good.

Kirby: Renewable energy and, and the world.

Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Kirby.