Navigating Young Adult Recovery: Insights and Actionable Strategies

Johnny Graaff joined Abdullah Boulad for an honest and reflective conversation about how addiction develops over time, often beginning in adolescence with the need to belong, fit in, and feel comfortable in social environments. Drawing on lived experience, the discussion explores how substance use can evolve and shift, from alcohol to drugs to prescription medication, when underlying struggles are never fully addressed.

The episode also looks at neurodivergence, trauma, and emotional regulation, and why it can be difficult to separate the two without proper understanding and support. Johnny reflects on the changing landscape of youth mental health, the impact of technology and social media, and how constant access, comparison, and isolation shape anxiety, behavior, and identity in young people today.

Beyond individual experience, the conversation widens to include parenting, freedom, and the loss of community spaces, as well as broader challenges within mental health systems. It offers a grounded perspective on recovery as a process shaped not by force or quick fixes, but by accountability, care, and knowing when to apply support with firmness and compassion.

Tune in for a thoughtful discussion on addiction recovery, mental health, neurodiversity, and why meaningful change often begins with a single, difficult decision.

About Johnny:
Johnny Graaff is the Founder of Lions Campus and has spent many years working in addiction recovery and youth mental health services. His work focuses on understanding complex patterns of substance use, emotional regulation, and behavioral change, as well as the environments that shape them. Through both professional practice and lived experience, Johnny brings a deeply human perspective to conversations around recovery, responsibility, and long-term support. He is also an experienced investor in the behavioral health industry.

00:00:00 – Introduction to Johnny Graaf
00:02:15 – Motivation and Entry into Mental Health Field
00:04:18 – Early Neurodiversity and School Challenges
00:08:27 – Family Dynamics and Enabling
00:09:38 – Addiction Onset and Substance Use
00:12:58 – Treatment Attempts and Final Recovery
00:17:01 – Mental Health Diagnoses and Psychiatric Care
00:18:30 – Critique of Addiction Treatment Models
00:19:47 – Post-Recovery Career and Founding Lyons Campus
00:21:19 – Motivation for Working with Young People
00:22:58 – Genetics, Family History, and Addiction
00:24:52 – Empathy for Young Clients and Brain Development
00:26:21 – Lack of Youth Services and Systemic Issues
00:29:10 – NHS, Private Sector, and Healthcare Economics
00:31:29 – Trends in Teen Issues: Technology and Substance Use
00:36:14 – Social Media, Hyper-Connectivity, and Parenting
00:40:20 – Loss of Freedom and Community for Youth
00:42:35 – Lyons Campus: Reintegration and Program Structure
00:43:47 – Program Details and Team Ethos
00:49:51 – Client Selection and Family Involvement
00:50:58 – Advice for Families and Family Therapy
00:52:14 – Innovation and Gaps in Mental Health Services
00:54:59 – Industry Trends and Collaboration
00:58:53 – Personal Balance and Self-Care
01:00:53 – Final Wisdom

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Follow Johnny Graaff:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnny-graaff-uk/ 
 
You can order Abdullah’s book, ‘Living A Life In Balance’, here: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/... 
 
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Transcript

Johnny Graaf 00:00:00  I couldn't successfully drink alcohol and I almost felt. I mean, it seems ridiculous saying this now. A failure because I couldn't drink until I discovered cocaine. I remember at one stage I'd spent two years on opiates in my flat, isolated from everyone. Mine was a very staggered road. I was so broken. There was a decision to make, and the decision to make was. Was I going to kill myself? Or was I going to go into a treatment centre for the last time and try this recovery thing? I think I went to 25 treatment centres. Let's talk about the problems the teens come with. I think the biggest shift is technology. There is a very unregulated world online that everyone has access to.

Abdullah Boulad 00:00:45  Tell me more about Lions Campus.

Johnny Graaf 00:00:47  What we're very good at is the reintegration part. How are we going to get you thriving in life? You know, it's a gift. Whatever we give and. Right. I wouldn't live this joyful life today, you know, without having gone through what I went through.

Abdullah Boulad 00:01:02  Welcome to the Living Alive and Balanced podcast. My name is Abdullah Bullard. I'm the founder and CEO of the Balanced Rehab Clinic. My guest today is Johnny Graf, addiction and mental health advocate and co-founder of Lyons Campus, a therapeutic education and recovery program for young adults. In this episode, Johnny shares his recovery story from cycling through 25 different treatment centers and battling addiction and mental health to finding sobriety through discipline, service and the 12 steps, we explore how those experiences became the foundation for his life's work, why he is passionate about supporting teenagers and young adults, and how Lions Campus is tackling some of the most urgent issues they face today, from online bullying to ketamine addiction and self-harm. Johnny also shares his vision for the future of mental healthcare, and why the system needs to evolve to truly meet young people where they are. I hope you will enjoy Johnny. What motivated you to do what you do today?

Johnny Graaf 00:02:15  I think that, you know, my story and my journey is one of, I don't think I set out ever to go into into the healthcare behavioral health business.

Johnny Graaf 00:02:27  You know, I think it was through, through my own experiences and struggling with my own mental health from quite a young age and spending quite a substantial period of my, my sort of early life in institutions. You know, so I, I have spent a considerable amount of time in psychiatric hospitals and treatment centers. You know, because I'd, I'd been sort of battling my own, addiction, mental health challenges from, from quite a young age. And I think that what sort of happened in my mid 30s. I was really struggling to find. I was working in advertising and I, I really loved it, but there was an opportunity for me to start something myself. And at at that time, Cape Town in South Africa had become a sort of big destination for recovery. So the so what I did was I set up a treatment centre in Cape Town and, and had a lot of amazing people around me, older people around me, psychiatrists, therapists who sort of really showed me, how to set something, said something up.

Johnny Graaf 00:03:37  and that was the beginning of my journey, which was about 15 years ago. and I, and I think that it's, it's, it's, it's a sort of natural passion of mine. I always have a sister who has severe mental health issues, and I spent a lot of my life helping my parents try to find solutions for her problems. And I spend a lot of time going to appointments and, you know, just just trying to find a living solution for her to have a quality of life, which she probably wouldn't have been able to have, without that support.

Abdullah Boulad 00:04:10  Okay. How old were you when when you discovered first you you're you're struggling.

Johnny Graaf 00:04:18  I think there was always neurodiversity. You know, if I, if I look back now at what we know, it's very easy for me to label myself. But back then, there was no there were no buzzwords around. There was no word. People weren't even using words like neurodiversity. There was, you know, there was some dyslexia, there was some ADHD, but it was sort of very, you know, there just wasn't a much of an emphasis you either fitted into the education system or you didn't and I didn't.

Johnny Graaf 00:04:49  And I think what what happens when you don't fit in is you rebel and when you rebel. You know, that involves obviously picking up some negative. negative traits write a negative negative habits. And I think that's that's what happened to me. What I understand today is that a lot of, young people with neurodiversity self soothe, you know, their self soothe by some sort of, but using either a substance or a behavior.

Abdullah Boulad 00:05:23  And you needed a substance or behavior. What about people where people around you which were helping in that moment?

Johnny Graaf 00:05:33  I think I had I had very healthy friendships, you know, and I was a very social person. But I think that I, I really struggled with some of the academics and that at, you know, at a sort of in your mid-teens has such a, a hugely negative impact on your self-esteem, so you might be able to mask quite well, but inside it, it's quite agonizing.

Abdullah Boulad 00:06:00  What's your understanding today of, being neurodivergent?

Johnny Graaf 00:06:06  Look, look, I think that it's such a broad spectrum, you know? So, so it's very, you know, there's certain traits in, in on the autistic spectrum that can really differ from, you know, from end to end.

Johnny Graaf 00:06:21  Right. I think for me, it was my ability to process and my ability to digest. there's also a, you know, and you would probably know more about this than I would, but there is an argument to say, you know, is someone neurodiverse or is someone just traumatized, you know, and, and sort of trying to differentiate between the two. But but being that as it may in my day, there wasn't the sort of assessments and medication protocols that there is today. I think with a lot of the clients that that I see today, in our service is, maybe a lot more severe in that there are isolated. They're not engaging with education. you know, they're not really functioning in as a part of the sort of normal world. Yes.

Abdullah Boulad 00:07:12  It's like processing information, like something key, which is a common factor.

Johnny Graaf 00:07:18  That could be one. It could also be the interpretation of information. Yes. And what messages you're receiving and how you interpret those messages, you know. I think that can be one thing.

Johnny Graaf 00:07:30  I think also social cues and social norms might not, you know, you might not have understood or developed them to such a degree that you can look after yourself. I think, for example, you know, just just using a case that that we we were managing recently is is a young girl who had no idea of of the boundaries she had to put around herself in order to sort of protect herself from exploitation, and got herself into a position where she was shamed by the people at the school and then severely bullied. And then that really traumatized you. And then, you know, you're not engaged. You can't fit into that school. You've sort of been ostracized. And a lot of that started by just, you know, having very different processing ability to someone else. Yes.

Abdullah Boulad 00:08:23  Were your parents aware of that situation?

Johnny Graaf 00:08:27  I think they were. I think they were incredibly overprotective. And I think that, you know, one of the things that I learned later in life, because obviously my, my sort of, my mental health struggles morphed into addiction.

Johnny Graaf 00:08:41  Right? And I think what I've certainly learned from my own experience was that I was enabled a lot. There was no maybe. No, not not a clear enough bottom line that like, look, this behavior is not okay. If you behave this way. We're going to just, you know, detach with love, right? I think they overcompensated, maybe felt guilty that, you know, for some reason that they were to blame, you know. which, obviously, you know, we I know it's not the case at all, but but, you know, I can imagine how they felt.

Abdullah Boulad 00:09:16  Did they try to get help?

Johnny Graaf 00:09:17  Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think I went to 25 treatment centers. You know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:09:23  So later with the addiction.

Johnny Graaf 00:09:26  Before for the addiction, for the addiction.

Abdullah Boulad 00:09:28  How did you get into the addiction? What was like the first steps which led to it and how how did it make you feel?

Johnny Graaf 00:09:38  I think that, you know, in your teens, late teens, it's it's a it's a struggle to fit in.

Johnny Graaf 00:09:44  You're struggling. You're trying to find your place. Right. And it's a battle about. You know, it's almost like a survival. Right. And mine was was a pretty silly story and that I couldn't successfully drink alcohol, you know. So I hated the taste of alcohol. When I drank, I passed out and I almost felt, I mean, it seems ridiculous saying this now. A failure because I couldn't drink until I discovered cocaine. And then when I discovered cocaine, I suddenly found, wow, I could drink, you know, and I and I could, you know, sort of socialize like everyone else. And, that was the beginning, I see, you know, of, of the sort of, you know, this, this, this road into active addiction, which as we know, you know, can be any substance doesn't necessarily have to be cocaine, and it can be pills or and I've, I've gone through all of them. Right. It can be opiates. It could be anything.

Johnny Graaf 00:10:42  And and I've experienced every phase of addiction, almost fueled by trying to stop one thing would, you know, swap to another. So you, you know, you can imagine, right? A lot of people, you see might have quit drinking or doing cocaine, but they've started taking benzos or, you know, they've started taking opiates or, you know, so it just sort of morphs from one thing to another. You know, in the end, you know, the sort of final days of, of my addiction, I, I wasn't using any, you know, I wasn't used to drink drinking or using drugs. I was just taking pills, you know, prescription pills. That was my sort of final, innings.

Abdullah Boulad 00:11:20  Why were you switching or trying other drugs out or prescription medication? Why didn't you just stop with alcohol and cocaine, for example?

Johnny Graaf 00:11:32  What I know now and what I know now works for me is, is complete abstinence and engagement with the 12 step program. Right. That that works for me.

Johnny Graaf 00:11:43  And what I'm saying that works for everyone. But it's certainly the, the program that works for me because it gives me a certain amount of, you know, it requires a lot of discipline, dedication, commitment, and it also gives you elements of your life that you thought you'd be missing by abstaining, which is socialization and engagement with other people and service to other people, you know. So a key part of the program is to help the newcomer, right? So so you never reach the end of that program. So I think that that has given me a completely new, new sort of lease of life. But what I would say about cross addiction is that, you know, you might get to the point with alcohol and drugs where, you know, this is very destructive. I'm getting into car accidents, I'm getting divorced or I'm, you know, you know, I've been isolated from everyone. Maybe I should just try taking pills and stay at home and isolate. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like it morphs into something else.

Johnny Graaf 00:12:41  You know, I remember at one stage I'd spent two years on opiates in my flat, isolated from everyone you know, as just going from one extreme to another, you know? Yes.

Abdullah Boulad 00:12:51  How long was this period? till. Till you get into treatment. Was there?

Johnny Graaf 00:12:58  I think that the mine was a very staggered road. You know, in that I would go into treatment, usually enjoy it, you know, because it sort of gave me a huge relief. Yeah. I would then get a bit of recovery afterwards, but then slip back in. And I think that, I think that also what happened is that I, I hadn't reached a point where I'd had enough. You know, the last sort of, you know, the last drink or drug that I, that I had seven years ago was, you know, I was I was so broken from that that I remember the day that I want, that I decided that I was going to get better, and I and I remembered very clearly because there was a decision to make and the decision to make was, was I going to kill myself, or was I going to go into a treatment center for the last time and try this recovery thing? And I think that that was the greatest gift I ever had, because I went in there determined, you know, and fortunately, I had a great team of people looking after me.

Johnny Graaf 00:14:10  I was just lucky, you know, I had a firm but loving group of people. So, you know, I think that you would know more about this, but there's a we can enable ourselves, right? We can enable people to continue with their their bullshit. Right. Or we can gently but firmly shift, you know, and, and, and I think it takes a lot of skill to know when to push and we're not to push too hard, you know, and just reach that sort of equilibrium where you're just, you're doing just enough to motivate that person to a change.

Abdullah Boulad 00:14:44  Absolutely. How many times did you go into residential treatment?

Johnny Graaf 00:14:49  Gosh, I think more than 20 times. America and United Kingdom, South Africa. I think I clocked up a whole year at the Priory. Yes. You know, in total. Yeah. If you had to spread it, if you had to cram it into one year. And a lot of that was, psychosis, pill addiction, getting off pills, you know, getting off benzos takes a long time, you know, like 12 weeks to to detox of benzos.

Johnny Graaf 00:15:18  And then you come out and you haven't detoxed enough, and then you slip back into it, and then it's another year and then you're back in, you know, it's like a revolving door. Right.

Abdullah Boulad 00:15:25  Was it necessary in your case now to go to all these places to build up and be ready then for the final decision to be to be abstinent in your case? Or was it the last treatment which was so important by itself that that.

Johnny Graaf 00:15:42  Yeah, I think that, you know, in hindsight, I think for an approach that you can't rewrite history. Right. But but I think in hindsight, an approach that might have worked would have really been a more tough love approach, which was like, you know, your your options are very limited now. But for me, there was always options on the table. You know, there was always an option on the table. There was always an option to return to treatment. There was always an option. I think when those options dried up is when I thought, okay, this is my last chance and I and I'm in, I'm feeling like I'm in hell.

Johnny Graaf 00:16:17  Let me get this right, you know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:16:20  So you needed some sort of pressure or limitation to your options.

Johnny Graaf 00:16:24  I think so.

Abdullah Boulad 00:16:27  Okay. Do you think everyone would need or profit some of some sort of pressure or more gentle invitation for the treatment.

Johnny Graaf 00:16:36  I think there's an argument to say that you have to smash yourself to bits and then look for help. Yeah, I think what what I used to use treatment for was a get out of jail card. You know, I got myself into so much trouble that I just let me just disappear for a while, and I'll disappear for a while, and then I'll come back. You know, it it it wasn't a firm enough commitment.

Abdullah Boulad 00:17:01  So besides the addiction, what was the mental health conditions? Which have, accompanied you during this time?

Johnny Graaf 00:17:08  Well, well, I think the the the neurodiversity, you know, I was diagnosed with some bipolar. hard to say sometimes, you know, are you is one result of the other, you know, is are these issues or these issues? I mean, I certainly know my psychosis was a result of of drug abuse, right? but if I look back at my early life, there was a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression, a lot of, you know, there was just a lot of issues.

Johnny Graaf 00:17:43  Right. and I think that, so I sort of ended up in a lot of psychiatric units as well as as addiction units, you know. Yeah. but but I mean, the positive from from all of that is that I learned, you know, the business that I'm in today, right? Because I've been through so many programs, obviously, and I made so many case managers and key workers and therapists and psychiatrists that I know what worked for me and what what appealed to me in someone, you know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:18:15  You visited rehabs, addiction focused centers. Were they addressing also the mental health issue or was the focus mainly on, on detox and, and getting off the drugs and alcohol.

Johnny Graaf 00:18:30  I think that most programs are okay. Right. They're okay. They tick the boxes. I think that the issue I have with, with addiction treatment is that usually in America it's quite common to have a detox before you enter treatment. Yes. Whereas a lot of the norm here, seems to be you enter your detox and you're in a program, but how do you digest what's in the program if you're detoxing for four weeks and then the program is over? You know, it it just will never work.

Johnny Graaf 00:19:13  You know, I think also if you're going through, even a 28 day program in America, you know, and you're and if you're doing a detox at the same time, you know, you're not, you're not really digesting what's in the program.

Abdullah Boulad 00:19:28  But you needed both the psychiatric support as well as the addiction support to, to to get over. Yes. So that this was seven years ago.

Johnny Graaf 00:19:38  The last? Yeah. The last. The last? Yeah.

Abdullah Boulad 00:19:40  What have you done since then or what? What was the next step in your life? What was your passion?

Johnny Graaf 00:19:47  So, so in in all this time. And and and and sort of chaos. There were wins, right? And, you know, it was setting up Montrose in Cape Town, the addiction treatment center, which is now an eating disorder clinic. I then came to the UK, I was involved with start to stop and and setting that up with Cosmo. And once I had sort of exited the, the industry for a while and I was involved in some other things, I was always thinking in the back of my mind, I'd love to go back into what I was doing.

Johnny Graaf 00:20:22  You know, I really love what I was doing, but I needed to give myself some more time to to get well. And I think the biggest, the, the big thing that everyone was talking about was, young people and the lack of provision, particularly in private health care for young people. And that was where the sort of whole idea of, of, of Lions campus came about. And that's what I do now. You know, we run a teen and young adult focused treatment centre in London.

Abdullah Boulad 00:20:56  So this sounded now so quick. Yeah. You finished treatment and then you started. Yeah. Yeah.

Johnny Graaf 00:21:01  No, no, it wasn't it wasn't quick. You know, there was a lot of, I went into treatment. I spent quite a few years, you know, working on my recovery. And then there was a sort of slow, reentry into, setting up a treatment centre.

Abdullah Boulad 00:21:19  What motivated you to do that?

Johnny Graaf 00:21:22  I think that, what appealed to me was I, you know, I think that I love a challenge, and everyone said to me, no one wants to do this.

Johnny Graaf 00:21:30  It's a nightmare. No one wants to work with this age group. And, you know, so the more people that said that to me, the more I wanted to do it, because I thought, well, it's not making sense what you're saying. You know, people used to say to me, oh, they smash up the place and they're impossible to work with. And and it that hasn't been my experience at all. You know, I think in four years of, of, of operating, you know, we've only had to discharge one client for trying to set a tree alight. You know, but we've, we've never we've never seen anything like that. You know, and we have also had the most incredible outcomes. So but, but I think that this time what was different about it was that I had I had two partners who ran a school. So they knew the space quite well. And as you know, London's got some amazing practitioners and psychiatrists and psychologists and, and therapists that again, were very generous with their time and advice.

Johnny Graaf 00:22:27  And how, how does this look? You know what, what is what. What do we need. And and where can people thrive?

Abdullah Boulad 00:22:33  I also wonder if the the effect of genetic and versus epigenetic. what do you think? in your, in your case, has there been any genetically, historically within your family issues already affecting you as well or what what was it was it in your case?

Johnny Graaf 00:22:58  I think that if I look at my family history, there's there was a lot of, high achievement. You know, I had a, an incredibly clever great grandfather who, who built a incredible business in Africa, you know, at a very young age. And, and then, you know, a father and grandfather who were sort of very successful in business and politics, you know, so, so I think in order to have these traits where you succeed, you have to have fallibility. Right. And I think one of the fallibility is, is addiction, because addiction can be workaholism, you know, and it can be autism, you know, in, in your sort of your intelligence.

Johnny Graaf 00:23:42  Right? We know that, you know, we know that a lot of very intelligent people are not neurotypical. So so there must have been traits, you know, definitely addiction traits. and I think that, you know, the way I see it now is very different to how I would have answered that question ten years ago. Today. I go, you know, it's a gift, whatever we're given, right? You know, it's it's because I wouldn't live this joyful life today, you know, without having gone through what I went through.

Abdullah Boulad 00:24:12  Yes.

Johnny Graaf 00:24:12  And we see it a lot with our clients, you know, as I'm sure. You sure? You know as well is that we see a lot of these traits in the parent. You know, it's so evident where this has come from.

Abdullah Boulad 00:24:26  Yeah. So it can be it can be the environment, but also it can be the, the historical genetic.

Johnny Graaf 00:24:33  Absolutely.

Abdullah Boulad 00:24:34  So I understand you're passionate about about the young ones, the kids. what particularly do you do you feel yourself, attract to, to serve, to serve that client group?

Johnny Graaf 00:24:52  I think for for me, what is what feels quite personal.

Johnny Graaf 00:24:57  Is that it was it was around the age of 15. 16. that I found things quite challenging in my own life. Right. So I have a certain empathy towards those, those young people we deal with from as young as 14 to as old as 25, and they say those that is actually the, you know, your brain is developing until you're 25. I didn't know that, you know, actually that that so so we deal with a very interesting phase. What I also explain to people is that, you know, what we're dealing with is someone with a very irrational way of thinking purely because of their age. Right? Coupled with a mental health issue, you know, coupled with maybe some sort of compulsive disorder, cutting, eating, drugs or, you know, gaming. You know what? Whatever it may be. So it's so multifaceted, right? and and I think that's what makes it interesting. What I also really enjoy is doing something no one else is doing. Really. You know, they're not that many people in Europe doing young people and specializing in young people, and that's what we do.

Johnny Graaf 00:26:15  You know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:26:16  Why is there a lack of, programs and services for young people?

Johnny Graaf 00:26:21  I think the what a lot of people don't understand, right, when they compare us to America is that that Europe is is social welfare, and even incredibly wealthy people in Europe still believe that healthcare should be free. You know, so there's this expectation that the state will take care of this. I think what's happened. Certainly I can speak for the U.K., is that a lot of the very good state institutions have been eroded away by cuts of budgets. I actually just heard last week that one of the best adolescent units in London, run by the NHS, has shut down, you know, purely because of budget. You know, and and you've got this group of people that love working with young people who don't have jobs anymore. You know, what a waste. And what will happen is you then have private services setting up exactly what the public service was doing and then the public service buying from the private service at double the price.

Johnny Graaf 00:27:20  You know, it makes no sense. You know, they're shutting down all the in-patient eating disorder. They're not contracting inpatient Ed beds anymore in the UK. They're going to it's going to be community focused. If you ask any psychiatrist about that right now, there's going to be a disaster. So what will happen is private eating disorder clinics will be then paid by the NHS, which will cost them double to look after all these people. So, you know, eroding your own services to you know. So I think that's that's a long winded answer to your question, but I think that there is an expectation that the state is going to take care of it. and, and that's probably why I think what I, what I have met was some of the most talented people working in the, in the NHS and local authority services, really passionate social workers, psychiatrists, psychologists that, that I've been so incredibly impressed by. Because often purely because someone you know, if you're 15 or 16 and you're reported to social services, it doesn't matter.

Johnny Graaf 00:28:25  You know, sort of what what income level you are. You're still under their radar. So we do have a lot of cross-pollination with, local services.

Abdullah Boulad 00:28:37  Okay, that sounds strange to me because if you look at statistics and what's happening in the world, mental health problems, issues, including suicidal rates, are increasing rapidly. in the last ten years, numbers were, were were extremely high. So why why to shut down then facilities when the demand is increasing. Is it because of the budgets are in different and different fields, different areas.

Johnny Graaf 00:29:10  There is a lot that I could, dissect in the NHS and what is wrong. Right. And and we're, you know, you're talking about really about mismanagement and and mismanagement and too much management. And, you know, clinicians aren't able to do what they're good at because their services have become so bloated. I also think demand cost. you know, there are just so many factors that, that, that drain the resources of the services, right? I mean, apparently it costs every single United Kingdom taxpayer £500 a month to run the NHS.

Johnny Graaf 00:29:56  And if you look at private health insurance, it would cost you £300 a month to subscribe to a private health insurer. It doesn't add up, right? You know, so so you know, whoever you are in the UK, no matter what category you're in, you're paying £500 a month towards the NHS in taxes.

Abdullah Boulad 00:30:14  Are there initiatives or plans to change that?

Johnny Graaf 00:30:17  I think what, what what we're trying to do is is broaden our service offerings so that it can be more inclusive of local authority NHS clients. Because we do see and we do have, we have had recently, clients that have been funded from local authorities in the UK coming to us. And I think what will happen is, private healthcare will play more of a role in solving these problems. I think what you've got at the moment is a lot of profiteering. so you just have people charging whatever they want because they know there's demand. You know, so people in the private sector charging whatever they want to the NHS for services, I think that'll end.

Johnny Graaf 00:31:03  I think there will be a ceiling, but I think that the the private healthcare world definitely has a big role to play in the solutions. You know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:31:13  Let's talk about the problems that teens come with. What what are the issues problems. they struggle today at schools, at universities, wherever they come from. And what do they get treated for?

Johnny Graaf 00:31:29  I think the biggest shift since I would say around 2005 is technology, right? So, so there is a very unregulated world online that everyone has access to. Okay. And there's no there's no limitations to the to the access. So their world is very fast. And their access to whatever it is is very immediate. So so I think that's the one thing I'll add. Right. We can talk about the changes in how people are growing up and, you know, less free play and, and less, you know, more overprotective parents. And, you know, you, you know, the book by by Jonathan Hyde, the the anxious generation.

Johnny Graaf 00:32:25  You know, so that sort of theme. So so that's a good that's a sort of good place to start because. Because we're dealing a lot with that. Right. Coupled with that there's a and I've learned this a lot through through running Lions campus is that everything now doesn't take place at the park. It takes place on Snapchat on TikTok. So the deal is there. The friends are there. They've got friend groups of like thousands on Snapchat. The bullying is different. It's shaming. You know, it's immediate. You know. You know, 1995. You've been bullied at school. You could go home for some relief, right? Today there's no relief. Yeah. You know, they're all online. They're all comparing, talking, etcetera, etcetera. So so that's you know, one of the things that we've got to understand better. They all know each other are, you know, it's just a very different ecosystem. I think what we see a lot of at the moment is, is particularly ketamine.

Johnny Graaf 00:33:32  You know, ketamine, abuse addiction with young, with young people, very young. You know, ketamine is cheaper than alcohol. You know, so so it and that's how accessible it is. And it's mega destructive to your body. Right. So it will destroy your bladder. You know, literally you know, from ketamine abuse your bladder will never recover. Right. So so we see a lot of that. The good thing with ketamine is it's a it's an easy detox. So so that's the one aspect of it that it is quite straightforward. The key then is, you know, is showing them that there's a way of remaining abstinent and that there's a different life, you know, out there for them. So, so I think that's one area that's bubbling. a couple of months ago, we used to see a lot of self-harm. You know, a lot of self-harm. There was it. Was it? It was, Yeah, it sort of that has sort of morphed now into ketamine.

Johnny Graaf 00:34:33  You know, before that there was a lot of eating disorders. So every time we have a wave of, of issues, I said to my business partner as well as I said, we're just going to become an eating disorder clinic. I said, this is going to be a need. And then suddenly there were no more eating disorders. Everyone was self-harming. You know, that completely different wave came in. Now it's ketamine, you know, so so you have these these sort of different waves of, of, disorders. But the root is all the same. Right.

Abdullah Boulad 00:35:00  Is it the same or are there nuances.

Johnny Graaf 00:35:02  Well I said I think the root is that, there's a lot of neurodiversity coupled with poor mental health, coupled with self-medicating with a behaviour or a or a chemical. Yes. You know, I mean, so and in my view that it all comes from the same place, you know? I think that, what what we've managed to do and, and and I, and I know I'm not going to plug lion's campus in this podcast, but I think the, the ethos and and you would know this from, from, from from running the balance.

Johnny Graaf 00:35:40  It's about the people you hire and the role models they have around them and the ability to see beyond, you know, you're not in some gloomy psychiatric hospital in south London and you've got nurses running around you. It's kind of like we've got young, fresh. Yeah. You know, young, staff, some of them in recovery. We've got some much more sort of older, experienced staff and they have. And it's all about the stability around them and the reliability and the program. And you know, I think all these very basic elements that we tend to overlook are the most important.

Abdullah Boulad 00:36:14  Yeah. Providing a space where they can connect to and be part of a community where they can be accepted as they are and not not always on the edge of being afraid. Exactly what? What can someone think about me do to me? Exactly. And I'm with you. Absolutely. I'm. I have also young, young children and, And I see how social media and always to be connected. My my daughter tells me sometimes I have to, refill my social batteries so they.

Abdullah Boulad 00:36:48  Because they they they are. And she does this or tries to do this? consciously, yes. But possibly this is very rare. She's 16 right now. with others, I would say it's difficult to disconnect. And that's the the biggest problem. We as adults even have this struggle when we walk home. We have still our work, our office with us. It's on our phone. It's our computer. We are always online so the children cannot shut down. They cannot disconnect. And another aspect is that, On social media and online network, it doesn't forget. Yeah. It doesn't forget. Maybe in the early days back 20 years ago, you were playing in the playground. something was bad. You were bullied. But maybe the next day it was forgotten. Yes, again. And that's. That's not the case. When when when when we are, dealing with online social media.

Johnny Graaf 00:37:52  They're hyper connected. Yeah. I think also what I've noticed is, and through my daughter who's, who's, eight is that, the it's.

Johnny Graaf 00:38:04  Look, I'm very conscious of how often I'm on my phone because that's all modeling, right? I mean, they pick up what you're doing, they're going to do what you're doing. So you're on your phone all the time. They're going to mirror that, right? But what I've noticed is that it's also the immediacy of everything because they see something online. And then you've got Teemu, which kind of, you know, you can buy the whole of Teemu for like £2 and have everything shipped to you tomorrow, you know, and it's like everything is immediate, right?

Abdullah Boulad 00:38:31  Yes. It's a very good point. I mean, shopping addiction at a young age.

Johnny Graaf 00:38:36  Yes.

Abdullah Boulad 00:38:37  And I, I it's just social media has become a sales tool for so many organizations because they throw ideas. And now, even in September, trying to sell an advent calendar for December, about cosmetics to young children. So, I mean, what's the point exactly? What's the point of that? And, my daughter just came recently to me and presented to me.

Abdullah Boulad 00:39:06  Yeah, this is this advent calendar. It's limited, and we have to buy it now, except what is in it? Yeah, but you have this, this, this, this. Do you need them? Do you need these creams on your face? Yes. 13. You know, so I just tried to have a conversation, but.

Johnny Graaf 00:39:22  I was listening in the in the car. to a guy, that runs a program in America. And he said the social media companies use the same playbook from alcohol and tobacco companies when they're developing these apps and the user interface between these apps. Yes. I mean, that's frightening. You know, Joe Camel, you know, the alcopops, you know, these are all, you know, the the digital space has drawn all the tricks to to draw you in from there.

Abdullah Boulad 00:40:00  Yes. I think being a role model is important as parents, already to be there and have an open conversation about it.

Johnny Graaf 00:40:08  Absolutely.

Abdullah Boulad 00:40:10  but, yeah, it needs much more, Much more work.

Abdullah Boulad 00:40:13  What do you think? Do young, young adults and children miss today?

Johnny Graaf 00:40:20  This seems to be a lot more fair. Around right than there was a couple of years ago. You know, I think freedom. Certain amount of freedom. The ability to make mistakes and pick yourself up. You know, I think micro helicopter parenting, you know, we understand that, right? But we don't really put it into practice because we're sort of hyper vigilant. You know, I try and make a very conscious effort to give my children a lot of freedom. You know, just. I would rather my daughter was on her iPad next to me and comfortable and showing me stuff. Then then, you know, hidden away in a bedroom, talking to some people I didn't know. You know, I, I think I also, I make a very big effort for her to have as many playdates as is possible every week, and I make a real effort to reach out to neighbors and friends that I know to make plans, because I think that especially if you're living in a city, you know, you can you know, you sort of it's easy to just isolate and retreat and, and.

Abdullah Boulad 00:41:29  Yes, but what you're saying is basically I keep busy and.

Johnny Graaf 00:41:34  And socialization sports connect healthy connections clubs. You know, I think 80% of the youth clubs in the UK have shut down. You know, I mean, there's just so many things that that bonded communities that are no longer there. And we need more. We need more spaces for people to connect.

Abdullah Boulad 00:41:57  Like this local, local youth club. Yes. Why? Why they have been reduced.

Johnny Graaf 00:42:02  I think again, I think it was, budgets. You know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:42:07  I remember back in Switzerland when I was young, this was like locally, also organized by the churches. And it was like a social initiative. And it was quite, quite good to connect with people outside. But there were no other no ways. There were like the sport clubs, you can be part of a sport club or then, join a club like that. So okay, so back, back to back.

Johnny Graaf 00:42:31  Yeah, absolutely.

Abdullah Boulad 00:42:32  Yeah. Tell me more about Lions Campus.

Abdullah Boulad 00:42:35  How do you work there? How do you help these young adults and what's your ethos around that?

Johnny Graaf 00:42:40  What we set out to do, right was really be an extended care for clients that had been inpatient somewhere else. So when we opened, we would be we would accept clients from other clinics, all over the world because we were really focused on reintegration. You know, I think that a lot of people go to treatment and, they have a great treatment experience. But what? What about afterwards? Right. How did you put all this amazing stuff into practice? And so I think that that's always been my passion. And so, so that was the core. But what we sort of evolved over the last four years is we started taking in clients that weren't appropriate to be the inpatient unit. It would be too traumatic for them or, you know, didn't have the resources. And we would we would do a favor for a psychiatrist and say, look, you know, so can you take this client in? And we, you know, we'll make a plan.

Johnny Graaf 00:43:40  And I think we've we've evolved as a service.

Abdullah Boulad 00:43:45  And how how does a program look like.

Johnny Graaf 00:43:47  So the program runs Monday to Friday, 9 to 5. One process group every day. Some psycho education sport every day. some experiential therapy. Very straightforward. Right. what I think makes it very unique is the team we have around them and cultivating an incredible, incredible style of cohort. You know, we have great people working for us, great role models, been with us for a long time. We don't use any agency staff. The clients are very familiar with the team, and some clients stay with us for almost a year. You know, so it it becomes their home. and I think that if you have enough passion, if, you know, I don't have to meet the whole team of a treatment center, I just have to meet the owner. You know, that's that's all I need to meet, because I. I get a very good sense when I meet the owner what everything else is going to be like and what the culture is like and what the care is going to be like.

Johnny Graaf 00:44:50  It always works like that. And I think that, you know, myself and, and my business partners Oli and Rupert, we've we you know, we all love what we do, right? We love what we do, and we love the client group that we work with. And that shows.

Abdullah Boulad 00:45:03  It has to come with compassion and from your own passion as.

Johnny Graaf 00:45:08  Absolutely.

Abdullah Boulad 00:45:09  In what you do. That's what I believe. Otherwise, you cannot, provide proper service.

Johnny Graaf 00:45:15  Absolutely.

Abdullah Boulad 00:45:16  So they live there?

Johnny Graaf 00:45:18  They live with us. And then what we are able to do is we're able to match them with a specialist. So, for example, if we've got a client with a young person neurodiverse with offered, we can match them with the sort of leading specialist in London who specializes in that. If we have a sort of a young boy, slightly anti-social, you know, we can we can match him with, a great psychiatrist, a football coach. another client recently we had we matched her with a very good trauma program on Harley Street.

Johnny Graaf 00:45:55  So what we would do is sort of chaperone them around. We would do the basics, but we chaperone them around to, you know, a suitable Clinician with with the client we shared. It's it's very much you know she came to the balance for some some some of the more intricate work that needed to be done before she was ready to go to the next stage. Right. The assessment, some of the trauma work, all all of the sort of more deep, what I call more sophisticated, you know, processes. but what we're very good at is the reintegration part. How are we going to get you thriving in life, you know?

Abdullah Boulad 00:46:40  Yes. And this has been missing for, for quite some time. I would wish every client would would do a reintegration program. I know just the young.

Johnny Graaf 00:46:49  Exactly.

Abdullah Boulad 00:46:50  But often.

Johnny Graaf 00:46:51  Everyone.

Abdullah Boulad 00:46:52  Often it depends of, of course, their time and they have to go back to home and.

Johnny Graaf 00:46:58  Exactly where they're from.

Abdullah Boulad 00:46:59  Families and depends where they're from.

Abdullah Boulad 00:47:01  If, if the young, the young adults they have. They have more? Yes. Most likely more time. And if they are still at school.

Johnny Graaf 00:47:10  I think what we're lucky with at the moment, you know, we have two from Singapore, we have one from Germany, we have one from America. You know, we've got so so what's great about that is that they're all from different parts of the world, but they can live in London. I think, you know, you've probably got, you know, the same situation where people are coming to you from all over the world and then they're going back to Singapore, Hong Kong or Beijing or, you know, Riyadh or wherever. but it would be amazing if you'd if they were coming from the same place and you could have like a, a hub for them to return to. Yeah.

Abdullah Boulad 00:47:44  Usually I, I prefer and this is how we, let's say set up in Mallorca and other locations to be more in nature. Yes. And for a primary treatment setting.

Abdullah Boulad 00:47:54  Lovely. Go deeper. disconnect. recalibrate and put on, on, on a certain track, but I like also the idea for a reintegration to be more in an urban environment.

Johnny Graaf 00:48:08  Exactly.

Abdullah Boulad 00:48:09  Also to to to deal with possible triggers. Environment. Practical things. Go shopping. Go to the cinema. Socialize in the environment. Has this been also in your case or for your clients and important factor to be?

Johnny Graaf 00:48:27  Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think look yes we can is is in the countryside in the Netherlands, you know, some of the programs in America, wilderness in the, in the mountains, you know, visions in Malibu, in the mountains. I think it's great for a period of time. But you can't stay in La-La land forever, right? And then you've got to come back to some sort of normal, you know, normality. And, you know, I think we're sort of in the hub of Marylebone and, you know, it's a lovely area, but, you know, it's more of the real world.

Abdullah Boulad 00:48:58  Yes, yes. We get contacted also often by, bye. Those. I have to still finish school. I have these exams, my IB exams. And how do you deal with these?

Johnny Graaf 00:49:10  So we do education. So, you know, our sister company is Lionheart Education. And they do all the education for the young people that are with us. Yes. so it's not mandatory, but if necessary, it's a very, very, it works very well because they can do the education while they're with us. The other beautiful thing is we can catch them up very quickly. So they might have fallen back with the education. We can really speed up the, you know, getting through the A-levels or into uni. Yes. Whatever they need to do that's important. Yeah. Very. Because that's your goal right. And they've got to have goals to to work towards.

Abdullah Boulad 00:49:47  Do you have some limitations about type of clients you don't take.

Johnny Graaf 00:49:51  Yeah I mean as we were talking about earlier I think BMI under 17 or 18 is very very challenging.

Johnny Graaf 00:50:01  You know, we're not a repeating clinic. Yeah. we're definitely a great option for aftercare, for Ed and reintegration for Ed. You know, we can do meal support. We can do a lot of the the work that needs to be done, but definitely not that early stage. Yes. We also can't have anyone that is psychiatric unwell. that needs stabilization. And and critically, we can't have anyone with us that doesn't want to be with us. you know, it's an open campus, right? So you can come and go as you please. We're not the place to go if you if you want to, dump your kids somewhere. You know, it's it's it's not going to work. We also need a lot of family involvement. We need the families to be committed because it's it's it's with that age range. It's a very collaborative. it just requires a lot of collaboration.

Abdullah Boulad 00:50:54  What type of advice do you give parents or families?

Johnny Graaf 00:50:58  I think for families, I would say grab all the resources that's given to you that that is offered to you.

Johnny Graaf 00:51:05  You know, often we find for whatever reason, we find families can be quite, non-committal with, with what they need to do. And I think it's so critical for them to become educated themselves and, and resourceful in, in sort of knowing how to navigate this. You know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:51:29  You also do sessions with the families. Yes. The therapist.

Johnny Graaf 00:51:33  Absolutely.

Abdullah Boulad 00:51:34  Yeah. You could bring.

Johnny Graaf 00:51:35  Absolutely. I mean, look, some programs, we're not one of them, but some programs are mandatory. They say if the families are involved, you know, in i.e. the family come for a week, you know, you can't come. You know, but but, you know, we're not as sort of, dogmatic in our approach. We're much, you know, we work around what's what's doable.

Abdullah Boulad 00:51:55  When you think about the market. Because I know you've been innovative. Also thinking about what's not available and what that's why you started lines versus what? What is missing? if you could now start something additional, what would you do?

Johnny Graaf 00:52:14  One of the areas that I think is very interesting is, supported living.

Johnny Graaf 00:52:21  but not not necessarily in the private sector in, providing supported living for local authorities in the UK. I think that's a growing area. I also have this philosophy that there's an opportunity for anyone who's not greedy. I think that, you know, if you look at so many of the services and healthcare businesses in the UK are owned by American private equity, it's mega business and it's just like, you know, open up and open and you know, you can't. You can't work like that in mental health. I don't I don't think it, you know, it doesn't match because it's got to be passionate and there's got to be care. Where I think there's a huge opportunity is that you can come in, offer a good service, make a decent return and really stand out. And I think that's where the opportunity is. Whatever you choose to do. You know, I think there's opportunity in in inpatient Ed, I think there's opportunity in supported living children's homes. You know, special needs education is is is a huge thing.

Johnny Graaf 00:53:30  I think addiction and alcohol, there's so many services. Right? I mean there are just so many beds available and there's so many options for you to choose from. You know, lots of great options. You know, you can go to America, you can go to South Africa, you can go to any, you know, a couple in Europe. You know, it's it's just there's a lot available. So so it doesn't interest me, you know, because I think I just think it's how am I going to differentiate what I'm doing there? You know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:53:58  Why is there no service available for, let's say, special needs and, And care. Care?

Johnny Graaf 00:54:06  Well, I think that they are services, but they are a very low quality. And I think the reason they're of a low quality is that they get bought up by corporations and then they lose the personal touch. And I think, as you know, with your business. Right. It's a very personal business. You know, the brand is an extension of you, the people you have, you know, everything.

Johnny Graaf 00:54:27  Everything requires a lot of your personal investment. And that's what I think people get when they come to you. And but I think you can replicate that in other areas. But you can't have 100, you know, 100 branded homes and then expect everyone to be run. Yeah. You know.

Abdullah Boulad 00:54:46  When you think about the industry as a, as a whole. are we heading into the right direction or would you wish something to happen in the market locally and globally?

Johnny Graaf 00:54:59  I tell you, I tell you what I, what I, what I love is, collaboration. I find, it's been very what, what's been very pleasurable is finding partners. You know, it's it's a pleasure to work with you. It's a pleasure to work with some outpatient clinics in London that I really believe in the work they do that's quality, that have very decent people involved. And I think that's what's great because we can't be we can't be brilliant at everything. Right. So it's kind of like, I know where you know, that that could work for that person.

Johnny Graaf 00:55:34  I think also what, what we do a lot of, as I'm sure you do, is we are quite resourceful to inquiries because not everyone can afford us. So you know, what we've done, for example, is put together guides for people without resources on how to get access to resources because there are some resources available to them. They just don't know how to access them. And you know, so we've put together a guide on how to approach your local authority, your local NHS. How do I get the funding. Who do I speak to and sort of help them with that process?

Abdullah Boulad 00:56:10  Good. That will help more and more.

Johnny Graaf 00:56:12  Yeah, absolutely.

Abdullah Boulad 00:56:13  Also to get information in the first place. And second. Yeah. get get it physically as well.

Johnny Graaf 00:56:20  And also, look, I mean, ten years ago, you know, you couldn't go to a clinic in Majorca and work on a sort of micro issue that you were going through. You know, it was your choices were really like a psychiatric hospital or a health form.

Johnny Graaf 00:56:37  You know, there was no there wasn't an option where I could go to a retreat and, and actually have a top medical team around me look at every aspect of myself and, you know, get through that divorce or, you know, get through that?

Abdullah Boulad 00:56:53  absolutely.

Johnny Graaf 00:56:54  That trauma or whatever it is, it just didn't exist.

Abdullah Boulad 00:56:58  I agree, and the development of offers, which are more individualized, care oriented and more holistically. Yes, I think that's that's our ethos, is, what has been now been more and more available in the market and the offering has been creating also the demand. Yes. Because as you said in the past, people didn't know. I mean, the only option is just to go to the NHS or just go to the next local hospital and get the necessary help. Like it? Mental health would be breaking a leg or so. Exactly. That's that's not the case because being in a hospital, in a setting grey, small rooms, shady, it's,

Johnny Graaf 00:57:43  Wherever you are, right? Wherever you wherever you are.

Abdullah Boulad 00:57:45  Because I've seen particularly with eating disorders, then they have to be fitted and. Yeah, Sum of inquiries we received. clients have stayed 6 to 12 months in in a room in a hospital, and they were not able to to move out of the room, or walk. And this is traumatizing.

Johnny Graaf 00:58:07  Exactly.

Abdullah Boulad 00:58:08  You have to stabilize again that person first for a while before doing a proper work. So. So I think what I can say to parents is be careful about the environment and think about the, the, the, the urgent urgency of the service itself. Of course, if someone low blood pressure needs to go to hospital stabilized for a couple of days, that's fine. But the environment is so key. The people who work there are so, so important. It has to have a compassionate approach to, to to to the healing process. But I'm wondering is to to know what you do personally, to, to stay in balance in your daily life.

Johnny Graaf 00:58:53  I am. As I mentioned earlier, I'm very religious about my 12 step program and then I am very religious about training.

Johnny Graaf 00:59:03  You know, I have a trainer. I go to the gym three times a week. I play tennis. I walk a lot. Daily. I usually walk home from work. One hour. Nice. You know, I listen. Listen to my podcast, I listened. You know, I listen to the balanced podcast on on my walk. and then my family, you know, I have, two young children. I have an older boy as well. that keep me very busy. I'm actually moving back to South Africa in a year. Oh, yeah. So I want us to be in nature.

Abdullah Boulad 00:59:37  With the family.

Johnny Graaf 00:59:38  Yeah. Yeah. I just think I think that that is, something that I never really considered until about a year ago, and I thought, I don't want to spend, you know, I just think I don't want my children growing up on the streets of London. Right? I want them to be in nature and to have access to space. And like, you've moved to Majorca.

Johnny Graaf 01:00:01  I mean, it's it's it's a lovely quality of life and I think it slows down the aging. You know, you can have a longer childhood in if you're not in a city, you know. So I think that'll be another contributing factor to my, my well-being. But I think I, you know, when you're in a program, you're very conscious of your sleep, your caffeine intake, your diet. You know, I mean, all the the sort of basics.

Abdullah Boulad 01:00:25  I will definitely go and visit you if I get them.

Johnny Graaf 01:00:28  More than welcome. Maybe we set up a balance in Cape Town.

Abdullah Boulad 01:00:32  Yes, probably. we're having plays there, but. Yeah, exactly. We can we can certainly connect and and see where we can offer our services and help help more people. If you can speak to everyone in the world right now, tell them one wisdom, one thing they can implement into their life. What would that be?

Johnny Graaf 01:00:53  Everything's going to be okay. That's an important thing to remember.

Johnny Graaf 01:00:57  And I think another important element is discipline. Just just to give to you know, I know it sounds quite harsh, but if you if you focus on, you know, whether that be meditation, whether that be conscious reading, whether that be walking, whether you know that these all these things take discipline. And as you know, what, it takes ten days to form a habit, right?

Abdullah Boulad 01:01:30  Beautiful. Let's work on our routines.

Johnny Graaf 01:01:33  Thank you.

Abdullah Boulad 01:01:34  Thank you so much for being here today with me. It was was a real pleasure.

Johnny Graaf 01:01:39  Yes, pleasure.

Abdullah Boulad 01:01:40  I know time is precious and lovely.

Johnny Graaf 01:01:43  Lovely to be here.

Abdullah Boulad 01:01:44  I enjoyed our discussion. Thank you.

Johnny Graaf 01:01:47  I think it's.