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Outrageous Wellness
Explore out-of-the-box concepts with a mission to inspire authentic living and outrageous wellness. Join us as we share our unique perspectives and knowledge on how to inspire ourselves to discover the best version of ourselves. Find out how to use spiritual tools like tarot, Jungian archetypes and other techniques to reframe stress; incorporate mindfulness and astrology to calm your anxious inner child; create a crystal grid to set an intention and manifest success in your career. We are delighted to be on this journey of exploration, and to discover creative ways to heal and reach your highest potential.
Outrageous Wellness
Fear and Spiritual Growth: Navigating Spirituality, Psychology, and Belief Systems
Kristine Erickson and Sherry White uncover the fascinating relationship between fear and spirituality, exploring how deeply rooted biological processes shape our spiritual and psychological experiences. Imagine a world where fear isn’t just a mental hurdle but a doorway to profound spiritual insight. Recent research highlights the periaqueductal gray, a brainstem nucleus, as pivotal in both fear conditioning and spiritual experiences, suggesting that spirituality is more instinctive than previously thought. Join us as we navigate the complex interplay between fear, anxiety, and spiritual growth, and reconsider how different fears, like those of death or the unknown, shape our life's journey.
Our discussions take a personal turn as we reflect on how belief systems, shaped by grief and ancestral trauma, influence our understanding of safety and security. Childhood and even in-utero experiences leave deep imprints on our mental health, with scientific evidence pointing to the inheritance of trauma across generations. In sharing personal stories of loss, we shed light on the universal challenge of managing fear while striving for balance and mental well-being. Acknowledging fear as an unavoidable reality, we explore how self-awareness and healing practices can transform it into a source of strength and growth.
Drawing inspiration from Richard Rudd's Gene Keys, Kristine and Sherry highlight the transformative power of addressing fear with love and acceptance. Recognizing fear's physical manifestations, particularly in the psoas muscle, and maintaining gut health can be pivotal in managing its impact. Our society often neglects fear, yet spirituality offers a path to confront and transform it. Navigate life's difficulties with compassion, and understand the importance of maintaining a higher consciousness in the face of collective fear. Through empathy and open-mindedness, we can work towards the greater good, listening and learning from diverse perspectives to uplift humanity together.
You can find Kristine Erickson on Instagram at outrageous_wellness
Stay tuned for information on Sherry White as she rebrands!
Hello and welcome to Outrageous Wellness. My name is Christine Erickson. I'm a tarot reader, a human design consultant, a psychologist, a coach, among other things, and I'm here with Terri White.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone, I am a master behavioral coach, a subtle energy healer and a retired medical esthetician.
Speaker 1:And how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Good, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing pretty well. It's been a bit of a wild ride, you know, for the last week or so with sleep or lack of sleep and you know those kinds of things. But um, but here we go what is the moon doing something? The moon. Let's see, the moon is gonna be. Uh is getting very, very is about to go dark, so yeah, okay so there you go, yeah that probably actually yields better sleep.
Speaker 2:It would make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hopefully We'll see Erotic sleep. We'll see. We should start like charting our sleep against the moon phases.
Speaker 2:It would make sense in a way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would, it would.
Speaker 2:Everyone has been saying they haven't been sleeping.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know A lot of people have had trouble sleeping, so, okay, yeah, um, we thought it would be fun to talk about fear today. Fear and spirituality and I know it sounds like a strange combination, but fear seems to rule the lives of so many people and I believe it interferes with our spiritual and personal development. So that's why it's an interesting topic for this podcast. It's central to our biology. Obviously it's part of part of our survival, you know, and it can be experienced as anxiety today, in today's society, and a lot of people have problems with anxiety. So, you know, we can spend all of our time living in that energy or we can try and dig into why we're feeling that way and hopefully be able to move past it.
Speaker 2:Yes, the brain really likes fear, though. That's why it's hard for us to make change, because the brain likes fear, and it's also why we have to do such small things, daily things, to trick the brain into not noticing that we're changing our lifestyle. Otherwise it will give us a fear response.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, we, we live in fear. Like you said, we, our brains, enjoy fear. It's familiar, and it's almost like when the fear or anxiety isn't there, it's like what's wrong. What's wrong?
Speaker 2:Why am I not?
Speaker 1:feeling all jacked up. Yeah, we know the brain. There's the fear response in the brain where, where, if it's triggered, we fight, flight, freeze or fawn. Those are the four typical responses to fear. Once our body goes into that, that response and you know it is ingrained in our biology. Like we said earlier, and I would argue as a as a recovering atheist, I would argue that spirituality is also part of our biology. I've always I I feel that, like our brains are ready to soak up the language of the culture that we're born into, it's also ready to soak up the spiritual beliefs, the religious beliefs of the culture that we're raised in. That our brains, like spirituality, our brains go to. If two things happen, one right after the other, our brain thinks, oh, that caused that. Even if it did not.
Speaker 1:We still go there. You know, we have the socks that we wear so that our team will win right Our game socks. We blow out candles on birthday cakes and make a wish. We do all these things that are kind of silly but they make sense to us and so you know.
Speaker 1:So one thing that was very interesting that I came across just last week was an article, a 2023 article, that did some lesion mapping on people who had, you know, whose spirituality or religiosity was affected, and the common denominator and obviously spirituality is a circuit in the brain, just like anything else. It's not a specific spot in the brain, but the common denominator was the paraacroductal gray, which is a brainstem nucleus, and it's also involved in fear conditioning. So imagine that, and we think of spirituality as being something that's very high level, a high level process, Right, and and fear being a very like kind of low level process, like very instinctive and reflexive. But the deal is, is that the spirituality I mean it's part of this brainstem, you know, originating in brainstem circuit, which is fascinating to me. I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, it's like what? Yeah, it's like that's part of what we would think of as the you know as the reptile brain, you know, and there it is, wow. So that I thought was fascinating, really fascinating also where you find your subconscious.
Speaker 2:Some of your core beliefs can come from that area too, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, it can be part of that, you know, and there's, there's light into fear, and so, then, the finding of that yeah, yeah. So I want to get back to that overlay. You know, like the intersection between fear and spirituality, um, but what I mean? But when we talk about fear, I mean there's healthy's healthy fears like oh my gosh, there's a bear chasing me.
Speaker 2:Right Rational fear. That would be a rational fear.
Speaker 1:That would be a rational fear.
Speaker 2:yes, A rational fear is worrying about being attacked by a bear just sitting in your living room, but worrying that someday that could happen? Yes, projecting into the future going to the mountains and you worry about that so much that you give yourself anxiety about the trip and you don't enjoy yourself right, yeah yeah being a symbol for many things. We do that yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I have this list of of fears, like these sort of existential fears that we have. We have fear of death because we have this idea that that one day we will die. Fear of rejection, fear of failure, fear of uncertainty, fear of pain, fear of sickness, fear of the unknown, fear of loss of control, fear of feeling emotions, fear of pain, fear of sickness, fear of the unknown, fear of loss of control, fear of feeling emotions, fear of abandonment, fear of loss of identity, fear of loss of meaning, fear of loss of purpose, fear of conflict, fear of being ignored, fear of disappointing others, fear of criticism, fear of losing someone's love, fear of inadequacy, fear of criticism, fear of losing someone's love, fear of inadequacy, fear of the future, fear of emptiness. And you know, and of course we could add on to that, but just to give some idea, and those are very different fears from, like, his fear of death is, you know, that's running from the bear, but I'm also thinking of that fear.
Speaker 2:a lot of those are combined fears that people have, so you can hold out at one time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's.
Speaker 2:You can sit with yourself to discover which of those you're feeling. That leads to more anxiety.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yes, I mean I know that I have these fears and I know that some of these fears control how I interact in the world, control you know my sanity, but it's you know.
Speaker 2:But they kind of sit there at this unconscious level you know, and I'm listening to you I keep feeling like a non-connection to spirit or something outside of yourself would greatly increase those fears. Yeah, I mean, if you have rejection but you feel like it's part of the process and you have something greater in store for you through prayer process, whatever you deemed, then that becomes a different type of fear yes, almost like.
Speaker 1:Almost like the spirituality can be a shield or a protection um or an inoculation against fear. You know if you have some kind of faith right right because you're everything.
Speaker 2:You feel like everything is in your control and don't recognize that it could be for your growth or to bring something better into your life. And so all those I mean death, even I mean death is a terrible thing, it's very scary, it's a terrible thing to experience someone else dying. We, you know, I think dying ourselves is not that bad, I think, unless you know we die and from what I I understand, you just wake up in another realm. But I'm saying to to have someone else die is a very difficult thing. But even in death, so many things will be renewed and you all have different relationships with people. I I mean just you might even have a different type relationship with spirit. Different faith bring in a different relationship that you never had before. I mean death, even though awful, I've lost many loved ones but I can even see in that process beautiful things that happen.
Speaker 1:Yes, and sometimes they come back and they visit people Right. Don't they and we'll do a whole nother. We'll do a podcast on that too, because that would be really fun to talk about our experiences with that.
Speaker 2:But with no connection to anything spiritually. You could see how those things feel just so huge. Oh my gosh, what if my mom dies? What if my daughter dies? You know okay. Well, what if my mom dies? What if my daughter dies, you know okay. Well, there's a process for that, there's a purpose for that, there's a reason for it. I mean, yes, is it difficult to go through? I'm not saying it's not, but there's also a spiritual aspect that could bring comfort if people would allow it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:But let's connect now with that. It's either woo-woo or bad. You know it's like woo-woo if you don't believe in one thing, and if you believe in religion, you're weird now, or bad, or whatever you know, yeah, the um.
Speaker 1:I think that my judgmental is the word I was looking for, but I didn't know how I want to say it the uh yeah, I mean I know that my, my views around death have changed a lot and it's been part of it has been that, you know, I have had people close to me um die, uh, you know, over over the years, and more so recently, uh, and also about my changing attitude towards spirituality. So that has really affected because I've gone from such an extreme. Like you know, the only things that really exist are those things that I can touch, right.
Speaker 2:And so, oh, do you feel like, having been a prior atheist, that you would now, if you had lost your sister-in-law, then do you think you would have processed it differently? Absolutely Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh yes.
Speaker 2:Do you feel differently as far as less alone and when you are having these fears? Do you feel like you feel differently now than you would have been?
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I think that well, a lot of them I wouldn't have even really thought about on a conscious level. I wouldn't have necessarily been interested in the question to start with, like what you know? You know what I mean Beyond the very surfaced.
Speaker 1:What's going on with these, with these feelings or with this behavior? I mean because it's one thing to understand on an intellectual level. You know, okay, I had, you know, x relationship with you know, with my parents. So that affects me. Why you know this way, it's a whole nother level to go to. You know, I had X relationship with my parents and it created this, this, this fear, this need that sort of been become this, this unconscious fear of whatever it may be, whether it be fear of abandonment or whether it be fear of being judged and so on and so forth. You know, and that's why you know I, I am this way and the reason that I had those experiences and develop those fears is because there's a process of personal growth and soul growth. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like that, yeah and it's so very different yeah. So when you're sorry, a little sideways and then we can get back on topic. So when your friends passed away you were kind of mentally, were you spiritual at that point? No, no, I wasn't yes, I just think that would feel very strange yeah to feel like, okay, they are gone, part of the food chain, the end exactly yes what was this relationship for?
Speaker 2:it doesn't feel like it's continuing. It feels like they're just a plant that's gone. You know the dog. But that's not true, because their energy carries on and your relationship truly carries on.
Speaker 1:But when you?
Speaker 2:don't believe that, then you've. I mean just feel like that would feel very scary and empty and make your own death feel very scary.
Speaker 1:Yes, although even though I felt that way, even though I was, that all happened during my pretty much you know atheist period. It broke me open to be receptive to a new way of looking at the world, because I think, inherently, we don't. We don't think that makes sense. You know that people end and then they just not, they just stop existing. That doesn't really make sense to our brains.
Speaker 2:It sure doesn't, because think about when you sleep, you dream and it doesn't stop. So it would feel natural for us to think, okay, we don't stop. But you know, some people find comfort in atheism too.
Speaker 1:So I don't want to the non-existence of something by the scientific method. So you know. So atheism is also is also a kind of a belief system.
Speaker 2:So, okay, all the atheists hating on me now, but that's okay, totally not. But I think that, too, I'd have recently read about that and, um, I was very, uh, christian religion when my mom died and I needed more answers and that led me to find a lot of where I am today in my belief system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so interesting that we both came from kind of opposite, but that seems the fear in the brain.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry that's okay, and anxiety, I mean this kind of is a good subject for that. Because I lost my mother unexpectedly. You've had that happen. I have friends that have had parents die unexpectedly, or kids even, and that leaves some fear in their lives and in your life and they might worry that their son is going to die in a car accident because their dad did. Or if I don't hear from someone and there's something going on, I will think, oh no, did they die? And that is definitely one of these fear things we were talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes straight to that.
Speaker 2:I had my own cell phone with a bus too, so I had to really work on that actually. Yeah, yeah, okay, did I get us back to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you did Because, yeah, Because that's one of the things that cause that. Cause that you know that bring up fears is grief and loss, and then that that can lead to irrational You're, you're. That's not a word. Irrational is not a word. Irrational fears, maybe we'll make it a word.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, I like that word yeah. I like that word, yeah and then childhood trauma.
Speaker 1:So we talked a little bit about that, which can be such a wide range of things. It can be as apparently innocuous as just kind of you know, parents not giving attention, you know which can create a certain kind of trauma over an entire childhood to. You know really extreme, extreme examples of childhood trauma, you know, so that affect your perception of safety in the world.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's well said.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And also the wound trauma. You know your mother's fears while you're in them in utero yes you know they recently discovered so much with that. Even going a little bit different, even trauma that happens to your siblings around you can cause you trauma and fear. Response later yes, like if you saw your sibling get hit even though you weren't hit. Kids take on that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:They take that on in your subconscious.
Speaker 1:I would take that on as an adult if I saw something. Yeah, you know what I mean, but some young ones.
Speaker 2:They can't discern who it's happening to?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's true, it's a positive opportunity. That's a really good point.
Speaker 2:I know. So think about all these things we've seen, Because maybe you have a client or something and they have these what feel like very irrational fears to us. But then you think about all these things we took on before age five that we have not a ton of memory but can cause us those fear responses yes, absolutely or beliefs, and all the cuts completely yes.
Speaker 1:And then you know you talked about the womb, and then that brings up um ancestral trauma, as well you know, because you know, like one of the cool things that that we've talked about is how not on the podcast, but between you and me about how half of us was the egg in our moms which was created. You know, each of us has been in existence and experienced everything our mothers experienced from the moment they were born. So we've kind of been with our moms ever since they were born and, on some level, took in their trauma, right.
Speaker 2:Which makes me question and think about anxiety that the younger generations are having. That seems a little foreign to us. But if they're carrying all that, that say my generation, who we held a lot of that in, we weren't allowed to express it, but we still carried. And then we have our children, and then that eventually comes out. Just someone has to heal the ancestral trauma eventually.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and ancestral trauma going back even farther than our mothers. We know so much more now about that and that there are biological mechanisms involved with that that you know. Even if we aren't aware of our ancestral history, we still carry that stuff with us on a cellular level.
Speaker 2:So Alcoholism mental illness.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The whole of Japan.
Speaker 1:So you know it's it's and our environment does affect how our genes are expressed. So you know, it's not just. You know you get half your genes from your mom and half your genes from your dad, and it's just, and that's it. You know it's also. You know, and then all of the environmental changes that have happened to the how those are expressed, going back generations, so it's like, oh, so there's a mechanism for that, for what you know those crazy shaman have been talking about for you know what I mean for years. Oh yeah, it's a real thing. It's a real thing.
Speaker 2:I've discovered it scientifically as well. Yeah, I feel like the thing that I'm gathering is listening to us both. There is no way to avoid fear or fears, but what do we do about them? You're you're really kind of I want to say stuck, but there's no way to avoid fear. So, if you're not, you're either going to live with it or you're going to choose ways to balance it yes would be.
Speaker 2:In my connection to spirit through prayer, guidance, meditation has been found to be incredibly effective, which that's one of those things I kept. It's like eating right and diet. It's like you kind of don't get it until you do it and you feel the results of it, and meditation is one of those. But so beneficial to this, because then you can connect to spirit, you can connect with yourself and have something to trust in your outside of you and your own processes.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, I love this quote by Richard Redd, who wrote the Gene Keys we hunt the fear down with our love, with our gentleness, with our acceptance, with the power of contemplation. And he talks about making space for the fear to be felt, and he believes that that being with the fear, we can transform it so it becomes something other than fear once we choose to look at it. Which is the hardest part, that's the scariest part, is stepping into that space where you're willing to look at it, and that's where, yeah, that's where, coaching and therapy can come in healing.
Speaker 2:That's very important to have help guide the client to finding out somewhat where their fear lives in the body, because a lot of people carry. Well, they found that you carry all your fear and your muscles, but really in the psoas muscle, so like people are getting a lot of lower back issues and a lot of tightness there and it's because they're carrying fear. So when you want to work with someone and help them, maybe they come to you with this reoccurring knee pain or back pain. It's nice to know where does fear reside in the body? Well, they discovered it's in that area, because we carry everything in our body and it does eventually show up somewhere yeah, our body remembers everything, even if our conscious mind does not.
Speaker 1:Uh, there was. What was I going to say? I was going to say something. You reminded me of something. Oh, yeah, that. And you know, we may know that we had something happen, some traumatic event happened to us, you know, growing up, for example, but we may not understand how that's been transformed into fear, right? So just being aware of the event, you know, but then kind of being disassociated from how that event can affect us long term, I think that that can, can cause some, you know, like fear, responses to like weird triggers and that kind of thing. So I think it's really helpful to become aware of that and to, like you were saying, have a connection to some form of spirituality, so that you know that you are being held through that process, held by, you know, by spirit, held by God, if you believe in God, guardian angel, whoever, whatever it is that you connect to.
Speaker 2:Understanding that you're putting out an energy when you worry and live in fear. You're you're attracting back in that chaos and that fear by ruminating in it, because now you've lowered your vibration, which then brings that frequency in. Also. I was going to mention gut health. I feel like it's necessary, um, because 90 percent of our serotonin is happening in the gut, which is our happy, feel-good feeling. So now all of our gut biomes are messed up. So I think that's leading to more was just thinking how we carry it.
Speaker 2:Often fear in our our muscles, but also when we're fearful, we feel it in our gut yes and so if you're and it makes sense because also if your gut health is off you're going to feel more often that gut feeling, because now you're not creating the hormones you need to react to the fear response.
Speaker 1:Or to counter it. Yes, yes, you could.
Speaker 2:And I think the other thing I was going to say was it's so natural for us all to feel fierce listening to what we're talking about, and most people aren't in a place right now where they're willing to just take a moment with themselves and feel it just like your quote just was saying and that's such a good point that they, they, they're just so used to feeling this way, they don't even know they can do anything about it because they, they, they don't even see that there is a way.
Speaker 1:The easiest thing to do, yeah, is to just pretend it's not there. Yeah, pretend it's not there and you know, just eat or you know whatever, do whatever to numb Pretty slight fun. Yeah, exactly, yes, exactly so, that is so, that's very true. Yeah, so we could. Yeah, should I talk about human design a little bit and the gene keys and what it says, yeah. So another thing that Richard Rudd wrote is these ancient collective fears stem from one prime source the fear that there is no underlying order to the universe.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. Yeah, no underlying order to the universe.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. Yeah, if the frequency of your genetics is tuned into this sphere, no matter what you do to try to bring a sense of stability to your life, your body itself will never feel safe. This is, in fact, the normal state of consciousness for the mass of humanity.
Speaker 2:And that is very true, I think Very true, I love that.
Speaker 1:yes, you know it's so and as we and I'm sure people who are listening to this podcast you know understand sort of vibrating at a higher level. Right, bring your consciousness up to a higher vibration and you can describe that much better than me. But the, you know, most of humanity is kind of on this level of just living in the fear and that brings down, that drags everybody down, and we want to try to raise more and more people up so that it's easier for us to stay at that higher vibrational frequency of living right.
Speaker 2:It's really hard. It's really hard to do that when everybody else is like, ah, everything sucks really hard to do that when everybody else is like, ah, everything sucks, and I think it was. You know we were talking about this during the election and with the things lately with that, how, the more you get upset over that, which a lot of that is somewhat out of our control right, I mean not that, but how people feel about it.
Speaker 2:You go on social media and people have this opinion or that opinion and it upsets you. Well, that lowers your vibration and that's what they want, right? I think that's what we were talking about. Is the society kind of wants us to stay at a little bit of a lower vibration?
Speaker 1:Yes, no, but I think it's true.
Speaker 2:Maybe I should not have gone there, but it is true it does that.
Speaker 1:Misery loves company.
Speaker 2:Right and right, that's well said. Yes, because that's yes. And if we all stay there, then we're not becoming our better selves, we're not becoming in our power.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that, love that, so, yeah, so I think that's why I, you know, trying to create a community of people, especially women, who support each other, because it is really hard to be out there in the world. You know, and right now we're in here, I live in the washington dc area and people are like okay, am I gonna have a job tomorrow?
Speaker 2:I don't know you want to listen to that, but you don't want to absorb that. Yes, exactly, and it's so easy to do that.
Speaker 1:I think you were the want to absorb that yes exactly, and it's so easy to do that.
Speaker 2:I think you were the one that pointed that out recently. I think I was frustrated with differing opinions and people getting so offended by different opinions and, just you know, blocking each other and not speaking to their family members. And you know, and you said that about it lowering your vibration. We got to talking about what that means. Yeah, and it is true, because it does, because now, if you're in that place of only my opinion is right and I'm hurt because my dad voted for this and my sister voted for that Nobody's speaking. I mean, that's hurtful, that's fear, that's getting nowhere. And as a light worker, then you're faced with how do I deal with something I care about but also care about another? Yes, and not lower your vibration. You can remove yourself from the situation and not be a part of it, because really it's it's not, it's not getting us anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then you have to meditate on it, pray, you know because, you, you can't, necessarily, you can't control what other people's opinions yes, what their actions are. I mean, and if you're letting it up, I mean it is upsetting to me, but at the same time I I realize there's a process to it.
Speaker 2:But also, if I get involved in it, I'm now lower and then now I'm at the yes person but lower in my vibration, then I start attracting in things like traffic and more bad opinions, and so it's kind of like if you start surrounding yourself with people that are more open to conversations and have okay views to see other people's views or open mind to hear another's opinions, then you will attract in more of that and that's. But actually you've lifted your vibration but people don't realize that it has to do with yeah, you know, and it's interesting because it's really hard.
Speaker 1:It's very difficult to be in a place where you can listen to an opinion that is so different from yours, that's coming from a worldview that's so different from yours, and to listen with love and compassion and understanding that each of us are on our own path, and to not take it as a personal attack, even though a lot of times it can feel that way. Right, it can feel that way. Oh, you voted that way. That means that you think this about me because you voted that way, and it's easy. It's easy to to, to find yourself in that, you know, in that mindset, and it's so hard to step back?
Speaker 2:Yeah, To step back. So where people don't question each other and don't ask questions, don't listen to answers. That's another way to divide people. Yes it is the answers they may need, while people aren't willing to listen to each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's how I learned. I don't mind hearing what other people think I mean. If you don't, how? What other people think I mean? If you don't, how are you supposed to make true discernment?
Speaker 1:Yes. And it doesn't mean to just take abuse. It doesn't mean, oh, you should just sit there and take abuse from other people. And it doesn't mean, oh, I should just sit there and take abuse from other people. And it doesn't mean yeah. And it doesn't mean, oh, I want to stay on this high vibration. So I'm just going to ignore everything and just let you know let the world go, because it's important for us to engage in the world and to and to work for for ideals that are important, that we feel are important to to the world and to humanity as a whole. You know, I think that it's it's easy to forget that we're in this for the good of humanity. We're not in this for the good of my tribe, like my people. You know it's about everybody and I know it's not going to get there in our lifetimes, but that's okay. That's okay. I'm willing to just do the little bit that I can.
Speaker 2:Um observe and not absorb is what I always have to remind myself I love that.
Speaker 1:Observe and not absorb. That's really cool.
Speaker 2:I love that if you absorb, then you'll react, which we've seen. Yeah, and we and we and I know I've done yes well, I mean, I even think today a little with my um moods. You know, I felt something from our conversation and I was carrying it, I was scared, so I came with that energy and you know.
Speaker 1:But really, and I felt it a certain way yeah I was more absorbing.
Speaker 2:Good, and I'm constantly that's something I have to work on a lot I typically do carry people's feelings sometimes. I don't always understand my own reaction until I take a step back and then I think, oh, I took on some of their feelings. Then I'm having this bigger response than I'm being happy and I'll look at it and think, oh, whoops, I did that again. I took that on.
Speaker 2:And it can be the same way if someone's discussing politics or worldviews or whatever. I can feel that sometimes and I think, oh no, oh no, don't do that, because then your response would be more on that level and that is getting nowhere but it's just getting.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting, like when I talk to atheists and I hear their perspective and I totally get where they're coming from because I've been there. And I totally get where they're coming from because I've been there. And you probably have the same with very religious people, Like you know, you hear where their perspective on things and you're like that's not what I think, but I understand where you're coming from that's fine.
Speaker 2:You have to kind of meet them where they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's kind of interesting, you know, having a little, I guess, understanding of their perspective, which can be triggering at first, when you first get there, because it's like, but that's what I used to think and so of course it's not true, you know, like your perspective isn't right. I used to have that perspective it's not right, but then you'd be like, oh wait a minute, you know just because I think I'm right, that doesn't mean that I have to think everybody else is wrong. That's a weird concept, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, but I love that and it's true, and I think as long as you come from a place of that, you can have a decent conversation yeah, it's the, the book um, crucial conversations.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you ever read that, but yeah, but that taught they talk about, you know, finding that, that one little common ground point, right when you know that there's going to be a long, hard road ahead to kind of reach some sort of understanding between two people and that's what we're talking about is that one little piece where we can agree. So you know, like we want the world to be a better place, so what does that mean? And then different people have different ideas of what that means.
Speaker 1:But then at least you can go somewhere from there, you know if you all agree on that.
Speaker 2:They may have chosen this life's journey to be very religious. I mean, they may have their own journey. And who am I to stop that? And if I was meant to stop it, maybe I would.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's another point that we haven't even touched on here today yeah, that we all have.
Speaker 2:I would want to help them because sometimes religion, anything, even spirituality, you feel sometimes like you're not living up to. I mean, that's in a way human nature, but those things can add that. So I think you know I wouldn't have any problem working with someone on that. Yeah, I wouldn't have any problem working with someone on that. Yeah, yes it can be carried with some stronger religious beliefs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, all we're really looking for is a belief and understanding that there's a power outside of yourself, that which can be the universe. It can be spirit, like I call it. I like to call it spirit. You know, I feel like that's a very sort of neutral term for it. Most people can get behind that term for it. Most people can get behind that. You know.
Speaker 1:It could be angels, guides, god, goddess. You know, goddess, if you really want to trigger some people, sorry, but yeah, that was not nice, okay, but yeah, but you know the whole thing, the whole fear thing. I mean, we just want to keep, we sometimes to look at it and to do that deep dive to really unearth what's underneath. You know our resentments and and our fears. And well, usually our resentments are the result of some some sort of fear. But you know, and once you get at it, it's like, oh, and now it's not controlling me anymore and that's kind of what makes life so much better is when you get to that place, and spirituality can really help with that to figure out what that means for you, I mean, if you don't take time to meditate, to connect with spirit, connect with your guides yourself.
Speaker 2:How can you really trust your path or the process, Because sometimes the process is ugly.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, but understanding that there is a lesson and a process. You know that we are here to learn, we're here to experience, and I think that that really changes the outlook and attitude towards what we need to go through and dealing with our fears of going through what we need to go through.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because in spirituality and in religion, both would believe that everything ultimately works out for your greater good.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's something both people can agree on and I love the Bible and discussing the Bible stuff. There's many good things in the Bible, many things and many spiritual laws in that.
Speaker 1:So I think that would be fascinating to talk about sometimes.
Speaker 2:So we'll have to do that. But I mean that is ultimately, you know, if you're working through something and you're learning and growing, ultimately it works out for your greater good. I mean, I think the saying is it's not over until it's all worked out. I mean, which makes sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're not done until it's all worked out. I mean, which makes sense, yeah?
Speaker 2:You're not done until you're okay, which says you will eventually be okay.
Speaker 1:Yes, and even going through the really awful, awful experiences, we are transformed by those experiences. We are transformed by those experiences.
Speaker 2:So who can say I mean, if we didn't go through these things, we wouldn't be the people we are.
Speaker 1:And that's not to minimize what people go through. It's actually really giving that a lot of space, because it is important what we go through, but also how out to someone you know. If you need help with processing something, always yeah. So do you have any last thoughts on this?
Speaker 2:I think we covered everything.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that was a lot of fun. I enjoyed that. Fear is such an interesting topic.
Speaker 2:It could have truly been a 12-part series, probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we could have done a deep dive into a lot of things there. Well, maybe in the future, so All right. So if you enjoyed what you heard, please share it with somebody else. I am Christine Erickson and this is Sherry White, who's on here with me, and we will see you next time and have a wonderful week or two until we are back again. Thank you, Bye-bye.
