This week we sit down with Julie Perez from Leap Legal, who guides us through the unique productivity hurdles that different types of lawyers encounter, the role of continuing education, and the cruciality of compliance in legal practice.
We then dive into the complex, yet critical aspects of trust account money, compliance, record keeping, and assembling a dream team. We discuss the lack of business management taught in law school and why having robust software in place to catch mistakes is crucial. We're also putting a spotlight on the layers of encryption and compliance with IT, offering a well-rounded view of law firm management.
Lastly, we're turning the lens onto one of the most important facets of any business - the client experience. We cover the essentials of clear communication, setting expectations, and avoiding those jarring invoice surprises.
To learn more, visit leap.us
This week we sit down with Julie Perez from Leap Legal, who guides us through the unique productivity hurdles that different types of lawyers encounter, the role of continuing education, and the cruciality of compliance in legal practice.
We then dive into the complex, yet critical aspects of trust account money, compliance, record keeping, and assembling a dream team. We discuss the lack of business management taught in law school and why having robust software in place to catch mistakes is crucial. We're also putting a spotlight on the layers of encryption and compliance with IT, offering a well-rounded view of law firm management.
Lastly, we're turning the lens onto one of the most important facets of any business - the client experience. We cover the essentials of clear communication, setting expectations, and avoiding those jarring invoice surprises.
To learn more, visit leap.us
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight Branding. Whether your firm only gets a few referrals or it's 100% of your business, you have the opportunity to double your referrals through educational, informative content. The pros at Spotlight Branding can help you create that content through blogging videos, email newsletters and more All designed to help you increase your referrals and attract the kinds of clients you want to work with. Visit spotlightbrandingcom slash pod to learn more. That's spotlightbrandingcom slash pod.
Speaker 2:This is Center Stage putting your firm in the spotlight by highlighting business owners and other industry experts to help take your firm to the next level.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, and welcome to Center Stage. I'm your host, john Henson, and this week we are talking once again about productivity and efficiency and just things that you can do to get the most out of the limited time that you have. I know that time management is always a big issue for a lot of you firm owners out there, and so my guest this week is Julie Perez from Leap Legal, and we met them at the Florida Bar Conference earlier this year and they do a ton of really great work for law firms, especially in the productivity space. A lot of their offerings and everything are designed to help you be more productive and so clearly something that they are passionate about, and we're going to talk about some things that you can do today to help your firm out and to really emphasize and focus on that productivity. So, julie, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me, john, so real quick, before we jump in, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do over there at Leap.
Speaker 3:Sure, so I'm Julie Perez, I'm one of the lawyers here at Leap and my role here at Leap is on the sales side, so I do a senior business development management and basically what that is is meeting people at conventions lawyers, administrators, paralegals even, and even sometimes IT consultants who are working with a lot of these law firms all across the country and one of the things we realize is lawyers are focused on their clients and what they have to be focused on their fiduciary duties. But what Leap does is come in and say, well, wait a minute, what are you doing now? Can we do it better? Can we save you money on IT? And how do we make you work every day a little bit easier, simplified and more efficiently? So the way we do that is through the legal software that we provide. So it's kind of like an all-in-one solution, and I think that's what makes people a little more focused and organized on the way that they're working their cases. Because, john, I've heard it all People are still using servers.
Speaker 3:You would flip out to know how many people still use servers at their office.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean I'm sure that there's still a ton out there who are still on paper files and have tons of cabinets with all kinds of folders that they have to keep for seven, 10 years or however long it is, so hopefully the majority of you out there listening are not in that space, but there's still a lot of advancements and efficiencies that you can do, and so I know kind of. The starting point, though, is you have to decide to be efficient. Like a lot of times for people who may not be naturally wired to look for ways to do things more efficiently, you have to do make that conscious decision to do that. So, even if someone is not purposely trying to be complicated in their life, what does it still mean to have to decide to be efficient?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good one. I think that's like the biggest hurdle right, like it's not, like how is the technology, what am I using? Versus it's the whole like can you decide to change the things you've been doing for 20 years if you're going to be more efficient? And sometimes I feel like it's just we're so hardwired in the way that we do things and really like these people that I speak to, a lot of them have been doing this for 20, 30 years. They know more than me, like they're successful on their own. I always have to tell them guys, I know you're successful, totally not knocking the fact that you've had this amazing practice for so many years, so you don't need Julie or Leap or anybody to come and tell you let me show you how to be a great lawyer. But there are things that you can work on and the decision to be efficient is the biggest first step, because you're deciding that you want to change.
Speaker 3:You need to change because the future of your business is on the line, right, because if you have 10 firms in a 10 mile vicinity, you're going to have nine other ones who have probably already adopted technology, are probably doing things more efficiently and now they're giving. They have a competitive advantage that they're kind of looking a little better than you are. And how do you compete and how do you stay relevant, no matter how many years you've been doing it? Because realistically that is an advantage. You do have more years under your belt, right? So all already you're kind of ahead of everyone else. So when you decide to be efficient, I feel like you. Just it's like a light switch. It's like it revolutionizes the way that they work and the way that they practice. So decision to be efficient, oh my gosh, it's the biggest first step you can take.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think one of the things that I see a lot of times is a lot of lawyers. They're really great executors, they're down in the weeds and they see things that are right in front of them really well, and I think a lot of times where they get tripped up is they see, okay, well, there's all this new tech. That means I've got to learn this new software and these new processes, and learning how to do this one thing is going to take me two hours, whereas the way that I already know how to do it takes me 45 minutes. So the thing that I'm doing is already more efficient. But they're not thinking about weeks and months down the road when they've mastered this new technology and now they're doing that thing in 20 minutes or 15 minutes, when it could have taken 45 to begin with.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and that is one of the key. These things too right, because they're like okay, but the way that I do it works for me and this is how we've done it and my staff knows how to deal with it and it's like okay, but I'm sure it's great, but there might be something better, right? And let's just think about this. And I always tell them when they meet with me, like this is not a sales call, this is a consultation, because the reality is, I don't know what's good for you and my intention is to find what's best for you and if it's us, fantastic. If it's not, no worries. We still need to talk about what you're doing, right, because that's what we're here for. So, talking about what you're doing and what you said is so true, like they think of the cerebral, the legal, the arguments, the strategy on the case, how we're gonna get the best outcome for our client that's what a lawyer should think of.
Speaker 3:What a lawyer should not be thinking of is administrative work. How do I enter my time? How do I build this invoice? Those are things that your staff, they have all these Fantastic competencies. They know what they're doing. You have your office manager who knows how to be an administrator, knows how to do the finances, knows how to do everything so that your brain can be best used for what you're good at and what you studied for. So how do we sort of separate that? Well, it's thinking of like the front of the house versus the back of the house, of the Of the law firm.
Speaker 3:So what you were saying was I do this and it takes me 45 minutes. But what that that person's not realizing is that for the office manager it takes them three hours to sort of sift through what you did in 45 minutes. So maybe it's good for you, but I think the overall like when you take a step back, it's like wait a minute. That took her three hours, so it only took me 45, but she could have been doing something else in these extra two hours. What if it could have taken me 20 and her one?
Speaker 3:We just saved how much time right, overall, on the overall like sense of the, the staff you know as a whole and it's it's what you're saying when you can adopt technology that can help you on the front end and help your staff on the back end than everyone's efficient, but then you know what you also produce more, because that's the whole thing, like, no matter what technology you get, there's only 60 minutes in an hour. Nobody can like sort of change that. But what we can do is say, well, wait the same 60 minutes. What if we could do three things in 60 minutes? And that's the whole like efficiency, productivity conversation, and it's what you said when we, when we first decide to change and then we first say, well, wait a minute, how can we implement technology that can help with this?
Speaker 3:What are we struggling with? Right, like, what are our challenges? Even and people don't think of that Because they're just getting the work done and they have great results. But when you stop and think about the business, I think that that's one of the things that you and I were talking about the first time we met like it's a business, it's a law firm, but it's a business, and I think that gets lost sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, like a lot of times they just don't have that training or that education to Run the business side of things right. I mean, like I mean you went to law school so you would know this better than I would, but like law school is just all about teaching you the law. I don't know that there are any actual business management classes in the law school curriculum. Certainly not for bookkeeping, certainly not for marketing. So how do you then, as a law firm owner, then dedicate that time that's required to run the business of your law firm, rather than just the case work that you're paid to do?
Speaker 3:Right? And the answer is they're so busy now because now they're an active law firm, now They've been around for a while now. How in the world do you find the time? Because now I guess, to think of or she has to think of CLE's. I got to continue my education, I got to start learning a new niche, right? What if I now want to do employment law? Because, you know, ever since the pandemic, employment law cases had become a thing now when before they were kind of like less popular. So people that were doing different areas of law are now sort of like exploring Employment law and trying to expand their business.
Speaker 3:When do you sit out and say what are we doing? Is it good, is it bad? How much does it cost? And and it's got to be a decision that's made, hopefully before you get really crazy busy, but typically it happens after 15 years of using three or four separate systems and and it's what you were saying they found a problem. Oh, I need something better to record my time. And they got the software, but then they sort of disregarded.
Speaker 3:Well, how about document assembly? How about something that sort of helps us create packages faster, because copying and pasting, I mean, come on. I did that. How many, I don't know. I don't want to say how many years ago I did it, but let's just say more than 10. I did copying and pasting, you know, and it's like sitting down with someone that does it every day, can at least give you like a guy, like, well, wait, how about this particular to your practice?
Speaker 3:Right, because if you're talking to litigators, people that bill hourly their mind and their work needs to be. They have to think about it differently. They have to say, well, how do I bill everything I'm doing Versus your think of, like your probate lawyers, your real estate lawyers? They're thinking of flat fees, which is now Efficiency more than time capture. Right, because those packages we create what if we could do three or four in an hour instead of one? That's how you sort of get paid faster and more, um. And then the third person would be like the contingency lawyer, like you think, your personal injury lawyers and things like that. They're not going to get paid until the case ends, and so that's efficiency.
Speaker 3:Situation too, right, like, how do we get to the end? Um, all of them have to stop and think of the ways that we're working. And you know what if you can do it and take a good opportunity to do it and say you know what, last quarter of the year or whenever it makes sense for you, let's have that real conversation. If you do it right and if you vet out what you need, you shouldn't have to do it again, which is the great part. Right, we don't want you to have to change like what you're doing over and over, but if you can do it thoroughly the first time, you should be good with whatever solution you choose.
Speaker 3:And that's what we try to tell people like take your time. This is not something you do quickly. This is something that, realistically, everyone in the firm should be a part of the conversation. I think that that really gets you a little bit more of that depth. And what was one of the things you mentioned about the coursework and the business? Can you say that again so we can go to that, because I feel like there's so much to talk about there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you're running a business you have just the casework that you're being paid to do, but as the owner you still have to make sure that there's marketing going on.
Speaker 2:You still have to make sure that someone's running the books Usually it's you, or maybe you outsourced it to a bookkeeper. You got to make sure that your phone's being answered and being answered the right way you go. If you have staff, you've got all these HR things to keep in mind and to that point at least from where I sit, this is one of the things that I actually don't think about that often. But to me I focus on because I guess it's because these are the rules that I do here at Spotlight Printing. But I focus on if marketing is going well, if all of the books are up to date and looking good and we've got good cash flow, our operations are doing well. To me that's the sign of a well-run firm and a well-run business. But I know one of the things that you guys focus on a lot is the compliance side of things, and one of the things that you say is compliance is just a natural consequence of running a firm. Well, so really expand on that and talk about what you mean by that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely so. Compliance for a lawyer, that's our biggest buzzword, because you think about your ethical considerations and so we think about as a lawyer, we have fiduciary duties to our clients and we all know these are duties of loyalty and care and always working on the best interests of the client. But for lawyers there's two more levels. You have your ethical rules and professional rules of responsibility within the ABA standards nationally, but then you have the jurisdictional ones for the state in which you practice. So now you have another layer of compliance rules, ethics that you have to follow. So I think when we talk about compliance being a natural consequence of running your firm, well, I think it's talking about kind of what you said right, like how the firm has run. How does the lawyer conduct himself or herself? How do we care for trust money? Because the thing with trust account money it's not ours, it's not ours to use, it's not ours to touch, even right. So how do we have something in place where we can separate, sort of silo the funds and make sure there's never commingling, even by accident, because a lot of times it's just an accident you put something in the wrong place, you deposited the wrong check. How do we have those checks and balances and the answer is having a good software in place that can catch a mistake, can give you a red flag, can say wait a minute, are you sure you want to transfer this? Like, where's the invoice? Right? Because now everything has to have sort of like this two-way situation Somebody gives you a deposit for trust. A lot of states require that you do deposit that retainer in trust first, but then you don't touch it until work was performed. And then you have an invoice and even though the invoice may not go out to anyone to get paid, you got to have to show it. You have to show the invoice and that the trust account paid for that balance. What if there's a balance doing owing right? How do we reflect that? How does the client know what's going on? How much was applied? How much do I owe? Do I need to replenish? All those things are considerations that really affect compliance and, more than anything, people getting in trouble with their disciplinary authorities, people getting disbarred, even. I mean a lot of the problems come from that compliance and that trust accounting and even what you said before record keeping. How do we keep records? Are we going to keep a filing cabinet. Are we going to pay for storage? What if we have a limited storage? That's digital right, so that these are all things that you can knock out your compliance requirements a lot of the times in the digital space, just ensuring that you have the encryption, ensuring that you do have sort of that accounting compliance part as well. And one more thing to add with what you said, because it's so fascinating I talk about it all the time and the fact that you said it. I was like, oh my God, we're like on the same vibe With law school, at least for me, there was no class about law practice management, business management for a firm.
Speaker 3:It was all legal theory, right, and the only business class we took was like corporations and entities. But that's still business law, that's like structuring of entities and that's not the same. So you have this group of brilliant minds at law school and we all come from different walks of life and some of them are English majors, some of them are political science, history majors, some of them were teachers before they went to law school, but I'll tell you what very, very few that I remember in my class. I mean we had like 350 people in my class, not really a humongous class, but I mean, I think five of us that I knew were business majors, including myself, and that's not common for people that go to law school, and I think that's the crux of the issue that you were mentioning, which is interesting, right.
Speaker 2:Right, and so you know you're thinking about, you know how all of that is structured and I'm just like making comparisons to just how we run things internally here at Spotlight Branding.
Speaker 2:You know, and we have, we have, like, the checks and balances, like you said, but it's for our marketing, it's for our operations, it's for, you know, the finances as it relates to the books, right, but for someone who is running a law firm, it makes it that much more complicated Because, like you said, it goes a couple of layers deep with the compliance and the ethics side of things, because that you know, that, almost you know kind of moves in between departments for lack of a better term, because it does affect finance but it also affects the operations side of things with how, like you said, money and invoices is applied to a case and all that. How does. Like how do you even begin to incorporate that into just a business's structure in terms of making sure that that's top of mind? Like, do you have just a dedicated compliance meeting? Is just that sort of thing just need to be a focal point to each department? Like, what do you recommend or what have you seen in that regard?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's excellent. Depending on where you're at right, you have, like, there's different things in place. Like I know the United Kingdom. They have like an entire regulatory sort of authority that has compliance officers for legal compliance officers for finance, right, and I've also met with a lot of firms that will literally get a CFO and just hey, handle all of our financial, because I'm a lawyer, I don't know what I'm doing, right, like the joke is always like I'm bad at math. That's why I went to law school. You know that's always like everyone's job and it's I'm not going to lie, it's probably true, because I for one, I can say I stink at math and really we don't have to think about it that deeply If we can just kind of build a team that's got those strengths and can bring in sort of what we need. So a lot of firms I speak to have CFOs. A lot of firms have CIOs. Right, I want to have somebody for the IT side, somebody that knows all of this stuff, that can implement what we're doing. Sometimes they call them, I think, ctos as well. I think I just made my own acronym, but that's all right. The whole thing is an IT guy. That's better than I am. Yeah, and sort of that.
Speaker 3:The safety encryption side. So now you have the person who is the professional on the IT side can talk about what kind of encryption do we have? Are we sock compliant? Right, sometimes, depending on their practice, if firms are debt collectors, consumer protection firms, things like that they require higher levels of protection on the back end, like think about whatever service you use. Are you on AWS cloud, the Amazon service? Are you on Microsoft? What are you using and what are their compliance features look like? Are they certified? Do you need that certification? There's so many people who are in that space right now that can really help you if you just reach out. And that tie it back to what solutions are you looking at. Is there anything we can do to consolidate those solutions so that they all work together?
Speaker 3:Because the last thing you want is to be in love with a software program and all of a sudden it's not compliant and you missed it. You know, and now you're like, oh God, we missed it somehow because we love the features, the sizzle, you know, the all the cool what's it called the buttons that you have and oh my God, it does this, it does that and we forgot to ask about the nerdy financial or I'd see stuff in the back end and I think that making sure that you have some sort of checklist or some sort of running comparison, right Like I know that the people at Leap we created an eGuide, and what I love about the eGuide is it's very agnostic. It doesn't say, like, get this because Leap has it, even though, okay, yes, we do have it, but we didn't say that we're giving you the list of what you should be looking for because we want you to compare and we want you to find the thing that's best for you. You know so that eGuide goes over everything, like talks about your time management, your time capture. If you're not a time capture firm, skip it.
Speaker 3:Go on to the next one. Like what are you doing for records management? How much storage? Are you paying for storage? Are you paying for backups? These are all things that every single firm, irrespective of which one you end up choosing, you need to think about this stuff, and one of the pages talks about accounting on operating side, on trust accounting side and all of the other things you need, so having something that you can go to, where these people have been doing it for a while. You know like they've been helping firms for 30 something years and we kind of know sort of how to guide you. I think that that's really important. So the people that you employ and the specifics and the sort of specialties that they have. But also how are you looking at things and do you have some sort of guide that you make sure you don't miss any boxes that you have to check off?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is great because it's this really ties into like a lot of episodes that we've done recently about you know, finding like your zone of genius, for example, like only focus on things that you like and are good at and, you know, outsource the rest, get fractional help, right, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, lean in on your strengths and surround yourself with teams and people who can take care of the things that you're you're weak at or that you don't like doing or you're not good at doing, and so just a really good, good reminder there. Just you know, and again, all this help is out there, you know, you just got to make, you know, talk about deciding to be efficient. You got to decide to get that help as well. So one of the last things I want to ask you about, you know we talked so much about, especially on, you know, with spotlight branding and making people look like the expert. You know, and I think, a lot of lawyers, you know they want to be considered the legal expert, but you guys talk about also being an expert at the client experience. So, as we wrap up here, you know, tell us, you know, what you guys mean by that and what does it look like to be a client experience expert.
Speaker 3:Yeah, client experience, right, that's like 100%. Every business wants to have the chance to say, hey, we've been doing this for a while. We only specialize in family law cases. We only do workers calm cases, because that's going to make the client feel like, wow, I have this issue and this person. That's all they see every day. And part of that is saying well, how do we show you that we're successful? Because I can show you my resume, I can show you my CV. You can take a look at our website and you'll already know we're kind of experts in what we're doing, right. But, like, how do we show that? Like, show that to clients and express that to clients.
Speaker 3:And one of the biggest ways is having a retainer agreement that sort of manages and lists everything out in specific. Right, what is your engagement? How are you helping this client? Like, make sure they understand the nature of the relationship, what you're going to do, what you're not going to do, what can we talk about? If it comes up right, like, a lot of lawyers will take on a flat V case and then, if this goes to trial, we need to sort of have another talk about this, because that changes the game, right, it's going to change what I need from you and it's going to change what you need from me, and I think, being clear on the front end, people appreciate honesty, they appreciate transparency. All of us do as people and as consumers, and I think just having sort of like everything in order when it comes to retainer agreements, engagement agreements, fees and costs right, like not just what you're doing. What are you going to cover for me? Are you going to charge me every single time you file something at court, or am I going to see that at the end of the month? These are all things that they seem super common sense, but clients need to know what they're getting into, because the last thing you want is to send something where you thought you talked to them about it, but maybe it wasn't clear, and now they received an invoice. And now you're asking them for $1,200 filing fees and service of process which, by the way, are all legitimate costs that the firm you know advanced, but they didn't know they had to cover it. Now. They thought it was going to be covered later.
Speaker 3:And now do you look like an expert or do you look as organized as you would have wanted to look? And that's? That's the whole thing right. We want to make sure we cross our T's and daughter eyes every step of the way and it seems like it's definitely cover that out right. And how about? How about? Like payments? Right, like showing that you're an expert means what you talked about earlier.
Speaker 3:We've already thought about this stuff. We've already seen that we need help with the way that we receive payments to and we want to make it easier to do. But that's fine, because we're experts and we understand that we have to give you the most simple experience. We got your back, we're handling it right. So for a firm on the revenue side, you want to make sure you receive your payments quicker, but for that you got to make sure your billing is done quicker.
Speaker 3:And if you're chasing, if you're an office manager, chasing your lawyers, guys, where's your time, where's your time from July people, for July time in the beginning of August that thing should have been entered already. So what happens? And you think the client's gonna be happy to get a humongous bill for two months worth of time, like holy, you know. Like I don't have that money. Like why is it so big? Why didn't I get it last month?
Speaker 3:So all of that's client experience. Like how do you feel customer service? How about when you call I think you mentioned that earlier like if I'm calling and I have to press 17 buttons, you know Like I will. I won't name my insurance company, but let me tell you it is a nightmare every time I call and it's like pressing a bunch of buttons. God forbid, my dog sneezes in the background. There goes the, there goes the automation, right? They thought they heard something else. You don't need people to be frustrated just to ask you a question. So do you have a client portal, right? That helps the client experience, because now they feel like they can talk to you, they can upload things and you kind of give them the feeling of 24 7 service without having to work 24 hours, right? So there's a lot of things. It's it's the payments, the retainer is being clear on expectations and managing the Expectations and them making. Also making them feel like you're always there for them in some way. You know.
Speaker 3:Yeah all of those things I think lead to like a healthier and happier client experience overall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the last point you made is so important because I mean just me as a consumer. Any time I've had to work with a law firm, my biggest complaint has always just been a lack of communication. No-transcript, you know, like the, and I understand, cause I almost kind of think the same way right, like you could be working on a case and there just may not be any updates. Right, there's nothing to update. So what's the point of me communicating that? Well, the people on the other end don't understand that you know, the guy who's worried about his case, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, like I've told this story before, right, like I had a traffic ticket and the court day kept getting pushed back, you know, a couple of times, and then it got to a point where the last date I had heard came and went and I didn't hear anything from anybody. And I'm sitting here wondering, like, logically, I could assume that everything got taken care of, but at the same time there's this voice in the back of my head. It's like is there a warrant out for my arrest right now? Because if I fail to appear, and you know, and I had to reach out on multiple occasions just to get that update, and so you know, have a system in place to communicate. Even if the update is, there is nothing to update right now.
Speaker 2:It's just that peace of mind that keeps people, you know, going back and forth there.
Speaker 3:Oh, totally. Even. Like when you don't have an answer, right? Like, let's say, you asked a question, they don't have an answer. Just hearing from a paralegal that says guys, I asked so-and-so, we have emailed them, we've called them twice, I'm waiting on their response, I promise I'm on top of it, even that makes you feel good. It's not even an answer, but at least they're working on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this has been really great. A ton of great information here, as always. How can people learn more about Leap and where should they go?
Speaker 3:Sure, if you want to learn more about Leap, you can go to leapus for our general website. They can also email me if they have any questions. My name is Julie Perez. That's julieperezleapus. You have any questions, maybe about what we spoke about, or if you do want us to send you an e-guide or anything like that, I'm happy to answer any questions because, honestly, I've been helping law firm since I graduated. I feel like it's like my calling in life and I just love hearing about the way people are working and really we're better together. Right, I feel like we have to sort of help each other. Like you said, get the best people that do the best expertise and let's match them up, and it's been super fun to do this First time, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, you're a pro. You did great. You know, never would have known that it was the first time. So one final question for you before we do wrap up. If you had one final piece of advice for our listeners, what would it be?
Speaker 3:I would say, besides deciding to be efficient and engaging technology, part of that is getting out of your comfort zone and for me in particular, it's been networking on things like LinkedIn. I think it's so important because part of what we said finding those experts, finding the people that have already sort of mastered a little tiny piece of what you need. It is so important to reach out to these people and just follow them, see what they're posting, see who they're connected with and what are their networks looking like. You never know what you'll find. It's been so amazing for me in growing my own personal business and then myself as just a person, right Like I've learned so much by just getting out of my comfort zone, deciding to be efficient and saying you know what networking is weird, but I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna try it and nobody has to see my face because it's just LinkedIn. Things like LinkedIn. I'm telling you it's huge. If you can just take a step out and network, it's gonna change things for the better. That's one of the things I could say.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I couldn't agree more Well. This has been fantastic. Thank you all out there for continuing to listen. If you have not done so yet, please leave a rating and review wherever you are listening. It does really help to show out and help us get out in front of more people and help more lawyers like you. And that's gonna do it, julie. Thanks so much for joining us Thanks, John. Thanks for listening. To learn more, go to spotlightbrandingcom slash center stage. Hey guys, thanks.