Get ready to be inspired as we discuss the power of understanding others, building credibility, and how having diverse passions paired with self-belief can lead to you chasing your dreams (even if that means no longer being a lawyer).
This week we're joined by career coach Nicole Andrews and explore how disrupting the status quo can create unforeseen opportunities. Nicole emphasizes the necessity of a versatile skill set and the courage to advocate for yourself, especially when self-doubt creeps in.
Lastly, Nicole imparts wisdom on finding purpose amidst career disruption and setting work-life boundaries to circumvent burnout. Gain insight into how disrupting your career, whether by choice or force, can act as a positive force of change. Discover strategies to define your career roles, break free from the 'status trap', and take significant steps towards your career progression.
Learn more about Nicole and the work she does by visiting www.thenicoleandrews.com
Get ready to be inspired as we discuss the power of understanding others, building credibility, and how having diverse passions paired with self-belief can lead to you chasing your dreams (even if that means no longer being a lawyer).
This week we're joined by career coach Nicole Andrews and explore how disrupting the status quo can create unforeseen opportunities. Nicole emphasizes the necessity of a versatile skill set and the courage to advocate for yourself, especially when self-doubt creeps in.
Lastly, Nicole imparts wisdom on finding purpose amidst career disruption and setting work-life boundaries to circumvent burnout. Gain insight into how disrupting your career, whether by choice or force, can act as a positive force of change. Discover strategies to define your career roles, break free from the 'status trap', and take significant steps towards your career progression.
Learn more about Nicole and the work she does by visiting www.thenicoleandrews.com
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight Branding. Whether your firm only gets a few referrals or it's 100% of your business, you have the opportunity to double your referrals through educational, informative content. The pros at Spotlight Branding can help you create that content through blogging videos, email newsletters and more All designed to help you increase your referrals and attract the kinds of clients you want to work with. Visit spotlightbrandingcom slash pod to learn more. That's spotlightbrandingcom slash pod.
Speaker 2:This is Center Stage putting your firm in the spotlight by highlighting business owners and other industry experts to help take your firm to the next level. Hey everyone, and welcome to Center Stage. I'm your host, john Henson, and this week we are building on a concept that we have talked about a couple of times on this show before, and that is your story. And so last year we talked about crafting a purposeful story, in episode 84 with Tamika Bickham. Earlier this year, in episode 121, we talked with Chris Vanderkay about how to tell your story, and so this week I wanted to discuss how you can actually own that story and really be confident in it and really make it yours, so where you really believe in it and it really does become a part of your firm's identity, your marketing message, whatever the case may be. And so to help us with that, I am joined by a career coach and consultant, nicole Andrews. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, John. I'm happy to be here Awesome.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about yourself. What's your background? How did you get into this and become so passionate about helping people own their story?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my background is in corporate, so I took the traditional path. After college I went into sales and did that for about five years and eventually moved into an HR's talent style role which pretty much defined my entire career. Just love seeing people succeed and watching their own development in sales. It's all about our commissions and what we're making every month and kind of starting over, and I was always curious, john, about what made people succeed and what made them unsuccessful in any role, and so I was watching the sales reps that were rocking it out and noticing things and patterns, and I wanted to be able to do that in a role that would have a broader impact across all of the divisions and departments in our company. So it worked out for me that I had worked in sales for five years because when I moved into the HR role I had to interview for a role. I was always the one that they would point everyone to with the job fair and say, hey, talk to her, she's worked in sales. And so it worked out because I had the practical business experience and so that's something that really helped me understand. Just understanding what people do, not just on the surface, but really living what they do is important to help them as they develop too, because it gives you credibility and make you relatable. And I would kind of fast forward to my final role before I moved into my business, which was a vice president of HR. So I would serve as a VP of HR, reporting into the CEO, a multi-state architectural firm, and what was interesting about that?
Speaker 3:It was right during the pandemic where I started to realize, like there's so much happening, I'm gonna have to choose. Obviously, there was a lot on me and my team, hr, will tell you if you talk to anyone in HR. The pandemic really took a toll on us. But I would say personally, from a career standpoint, I knew that at some point I could not do both like my business on the side, because I started it in 2019, while I was still in corporate, moving up the ladder, and I just decided to bet on myself. So if you simmer 2021, I walked into the CEOs, into the room, the meeting, and just said, hey, it wasn't that simple, but I did my hands trembling, my knee shaking, basically handed over my resignation, and they knew that I was doing this work, and so that was one of the things that they liked about me that I had all of these different passion areas, but I don't think they knew I was going to take the lead that quickly because I'd been there for two years. So I gave them about two and a half years. I left in March of 2022 and the rest is history.
Speaker 3:I've been on this path of career coaching women who are primary red winners or sole red winners, or women who are just feeling like they're not really utilized fully, they're not really valued fully in the corporate space For whatever reason, whether that's their own self-worth or whether that's something external in the environment that's not supporting them. And then, on the flip side of that, working with companies as an organizational consultant I have an MBA and a master's in HR development as well. So going into organizations and really looking at leadership development and how those leaders are impacting the development and the potential and the opportunities for their people, so that hopefully, that translates into our ROI of attraction of talent, retention of talent and also development and advancement of talent. So I hope that wasn't too long, but that's my path. That's my journey. In a nutshell, high level as I can be.
Speaker 2:Awesome. No, it's great. So when we're talking now about how someone can own their story, at least for me, there's a couple of different ways to look at it. There's that marketing side of it and just being able to communicate that and really make that connection with people in terms of how you help. But there's another way of looking at it, and where we'll start here, in terms of how you just shared with your own story, is where it all begins, especially as it relates to going out on your own.
Speaker 2:So I think this is really applicable, especially for, maybe, people who are listening who work for a larger firm, or maybe they're an associated, a smaller, mid-sized firm, and they're thinking about going out on their own. I know one of the things that you talk about is purposely disrupting the status quo and how a lot of people otherwise get comfortable in their current situation, whether it's ideal or not, even if they're not happy. It's what they know, and a lot of times, people will just stay in that because it's what they know, even if there are better opportunities out there. In your opinion, what is the advantage, then, of what you call disrupting the status quo, and where does that lead to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the advantage of disrupting the status quo. When we think about the companies that have really broken the mold, I'm going to go to Apple, for example. Apple broke the mold with the iPhone. Apple broke the mold with CDs. They changed the game. I remember when I got my first iPod, john, and it's like, oh my gosh, I can hold hundreds of songs on this little device. Who thought of CDs? At the end of the day, when you think about great companies, when you think about individuals who've been very successful and profound in our world, they really are disruptors.
Speaker 3:I think conformity is really that safety. We want that safety, we want the security. That's why the pandemic hit so hard for a lot of people too, because we didn't have certainty anymore. We didn't know what was around the corner. We didn't know how long this was going to last. I think about that need to conform, that need to feel comfortable, is what keeps a lot of people in a place where they know. I think it's.
Speaker 3:Gay Hendricks has a book called the Big Leap. If you search Big Leap, people can find it, but he talks about these different zones. He talks about the zone of incompetence, the zone of competence, the zone of like. There's another zone, and then I forget the fourth zone, but the last zone is the zone of genius. I realized for me personally I was operating in a zone of excellence, in a zone of competence I was doing very well.
Speaker 3:If someone's listening to this podcast today, hopefully you'll be inspired just through. You may be doing something that you're very, very good at and people have said that you're very, very good at but deep down there's something that you absolutely can be number one, be best at, because you're so good at it, you're so passionate about it, your purpose aligns with it. It's something that no one probably knows that you do, or you do it so easily that it just comes so easily for you that people, even if they know they don't realize wow, this person should be doing this, not this. It's just one of those things where disruption, for me, is really about how do I not settle on my morals? How do I not? I don't want to be content, but I have someone saying to call it's okay to basically congratulate yourself and celebrate your accomplishments. I will say that's a challenge with disruptors, because sometimes we don't know how to sit still and just celebrate where we are and celebrate the wins. But I also am never going to be content.
Speaker 3:I think there's so many people I remember I'll share this quick story and then I'll stop. I remember someone one of my clients actually talking about an individual that she knew during the pandemic who lost her job. She had been with the company for 15 years and they later off during the pandemic. She had no idea what was next, she had no idea what to do. She had no idea how to translate her skill set into something new. That's why I think disruption is so important.
Speaker 3:If you didn't get anything else, it's important because disruption can look like building a new skill AI. It could be learning AI and applying that to your role. No matter what your role is, disruption can look like oh my gosh, I'm going to ask for this promotion, even though I know I'm not necessarily ready for it and check all in the boxes, I'm going to ask for it anyway. Disruption can mean actually being calm when everyone else is chaotic and people notice that, and then you're set up to lead an effort that they need, someone who can steady everyone and get everyone going in the same direction. So disruption can mean a lot of things, but to me, that's why we disrupt is because it's almost, if you don't, we've seen I don't want to say names, you can cut this out if you need to but we've seen blockbuster, that's my favorite story of like why did blockbuster go?
Speaker 3:We've seen towards arrest Again. If we don't adapt, then as an individual, as a corporation, we will be left behind. Especially with the acceleration of change. It's only going to get even faster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's also one of those things where I think a lot of people hear the word disruption and they see it as a negative thing, Like especially just society-wide the term disruption has a negative connotation, but it's not necessarily the case. It's another word for change, and whether that change is forced or you're more proactive in creating that change, it definitely doesn't have to be a negative thing.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's why I say purposeful, Like it's purposeful disruption, intentional disruption. And again, as I said, disruption doesn't have to be something that you're going against the mold. You may actually be the one that's studying people. So disruption it's funny that you say that, because a lot of people have said what does disruption mean? You're the career disruptor. They think I'm going to come in and tell all other people to run for the hills and I'm like no, I believe in the value of work. I believe that that's a part of our purpose and what we do. I just don't think everyone's aligned in the right seat on the bus to do the work that they can truly do well, well in this world, and so that's what I'm passionate about is helping people find that path.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so then understandably, though you know whether the that disruption is forced or they're thinking about it there's a lot of nerves and anxiety around that. You know there's so many unknowns. I was like, oh man, what if I make this big change and I end up in a situation where I'm even more unhappy than I am now, or stuff like that. But you're, you know, I know you talk a lot about how, regardless, you know, having that disruption can still be a big catalyst for positive change. So talk about how that happens. You know, even even in a situation, or you know, or how you even talk to someone who is worried about how they may end up in a situation that was worse than their original one that they were trying to get out of in the first place.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I have a client who she's amazing, one of my former clients who was she was trying to determine. She was in academia and she was trying to determine what should she do, like she was on the city council, she's in academia, she was in all of these different things, but when she came to me she was like I really don't know if I want to be in academia anymore. I don't know if I want to stay. I feel like I don't want to be in the classroom in the way that I am. I want to move into administration, and so we talked about that and, after working, of course, together for many months, what we came to realize is that, after three things I'll tell people one is we really unpacked our vision If you're not clear on who you are, most people don't even know who they are or what they want. They can tell you what they don't want. Like if I ask what do you not want for dinner tonight, you'd probably tell me I don't want this, I don't want this, I don't want this, but I'm not really sure what I want, but you tell me all the things you don't want. It's the same thing with our career, right? People can tell you, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do that. But when you say, well, what do you want? I don't know. So what we do is get clear on vision, and so we worked through the vision exercise, vision framework for her, and so she got really clear on who she was, and then we moved into purpose, and what was interesting about her is that she was like I really do like the students, I feel like they energize me. I just don't want to do it every day. And so we started talking about other opportunities and what she enjoyed, and one of the things that we discovered was that she loved being in front of the camera. So she wasn't a traditional professor where she liked, like she wanted to be in media too, and it was an interesting twist because once we started to define her purpose and what her mission was, she was like I really feel like the work that I do. People have interviewed her for the work that she does.
Speaker 3:She was like I really want to be in front of people, telling them about wellness, telling them about all of these different things, and I said, okay, well, that's your path, like that's a part of your path. You can still do these other things. But if this is not here, it seems like you're not passionate, right? So number two is finding your purpose and aligning that with the work that you do. It doesn't mean that you have to. A lot of people say, burn the votes. I had a coach tell me that too, and I did it. But you don't always have to burn the votes, john, and I think that's what's shifting too. Is that?
Speaker 3:The third piece is that there are more and more people who are willing to allow you to do other things and other passion projects while you are still working in a full-time job.
Speaker 3:The company that I worked with they had a lot of company or a lot of individual employees who had other interests, and they supported that.
Speaker 3:So the biggest thing is making sure, obviously, that you don't take away from your primary role, but all of that to say, finding your vision, getting clear on purpose and not shying away, not burning the votes if you don't have to right away, giving yourself some space to explore and what I call career experimentation. We don't do enough experimentation to see what we really like. So, if you don't know what you like, experiment with different things, start exploring, start doing something different that you wouldn't typically do this individual client. Going back to her really quickly, she actually has been contacted by Harvard, has been contacted by Stanford. Now she's been contacted by several individuals to serve on panels related to the work that she does based on her PhD, and some of it is because of the work that she's been doing in the media. Her videos are attracting a lot of people and a lot of likes and a lot of attention, which we know also in your career is important too. You need attention and you need a brand, no matter what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I completely agree, and I'm glad you mentioned that, because I think, selfishly speaking, that's one of the things that I think we at Spotlight Braining, internally, have done really well, in that we have created this environment where I think people can feel comfortable pursuing their outside passions, because I mean, look, we'll be honest, I don't think anyone who works here had the dream as a child oh, my gosh, my dream in life is to market for lawyers. No, no, it's just, it's a service that needs to be done, but it's not a more I don't know, I don't know the term. It's not like being a police officer or a firefighter or a pilot or these things that people dream of being right, and so we have this really good environment. I mean, for me personally, it's allowed me to write and publish all of these history books that I've written the last several years, because I'm in an environment where I feel like I can do that. So that's really, really glad that you mentioned that.
Speaker 2:Another thing, though, that I wanna hear from you on, because I talked to some of these lawyers a lot of times, and they don't a lot of them feel like they don't have a story. They just like, oh well, I'm a lawyer, I just do this, this is just what I do, or whatever. And as I'm talking, I wonder if there's also some sort of correlation, because there's so many studies about the legal industry in terms of burnout and poor mental health, and so I don't know if there's a correlation between not feeling that story and owning that story and feeling connected to it and experiencing more of that burnout or not. But I'm really curious to get your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3:Yes, and owning the story you mean owning their story in terms of their journey and what they really want to do when they're cured?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, so that's an interesting question, john. To be honest, I've never thought about how that could cause burnout, because typically when you think about burnout, there's different definitions of it and it's typically related to work. So if we think about the technical, like the scientific or the wellness part of burnout, it's really tied to the work that we do. We say burnout but it's really tied to the work, and I look at it as you don't see an end in sight or what's on your plate. So when you feel like you are, there is no way that you could ever ever complete everything that you have to get done. That creates anxiety, that creates this sense of like, almost despair, like I will never be able to do all the things that I need to do to get into a place where I have value, where I have harmony.
Speaker 3:So when I think about owning your story, a part of that is owning the fact that, hey, something has to change. And maybe I like the term work-life boundaries because I don't think balance is possible. Some people can debate that and argue that I think balance is possible if everything is equal and you have all of the support and resources that you need. Maybe, but I think it's about work-life boundaries. So to me, owning your story is really how do you come back to burnout? It's saying well, this is my season of life right now.
Speaker 3:And maybe your story is I wanna shift back, I wanna shift my hours a little bit, and so that could be. This is I'm gonna go and ask can I shift my schedule or can I do job sharing with someone else? Can we share the load? Like, how can we think creatively about our work and what we do so we don't burn out? Owning your story can also be when I think about attorneys, because I do have some attorney clients, but I think about attorneys there's so like again I think I go back to professional services as a whole. There's a lot of hours, it's billable.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's. You know it's like you're not billing, but that's a huge gap right, there's an issue there. If you're not charging, if you're not billing, there's not a lot of room for admin and all these other pieces. So for me, the owning story piece is really about helping people understand what is their path, what is their role, how does this fit within their life and how can they balance or set boundaries in a way to where they're not dwelling their career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And so to kind of begin to put a bow on this, you know, for people who might feel like they're kind of in that environment right now, whether they're working for a larger firm and they're ready for that disruption, maybe they own their own firm and they're maybe thinking about getting out of, you know, that legal profession altogether and pursuing something else. Because we've had some clients of ours who have said like I just can't do this anymore, I need to just change paths altogether. You know how can these people, you know what can they do to maybe, you know, find that voice or support themselves others around them? You know what kind of you know, when people are kind of at that point, what do you do to help them?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So when people are really stuck on what to do next, again, I shared the vision and purpose initially, so that's a part of it. One of the things that I would recommend that people do is really go and define three roles that you like, three roles that you're like. If I could map out any role, what would those be Like? If these are three different paths and I'm going to give you a practical example, because I really do if you're stuck and you're listening to this right now, I believe you may challenge me, but I believe that you know deep down what you really really want to do.
Speaker 3:There's just something, maybe in your environment, there's something else. Maybe your family and friends like they'll say you're crazy for doing this. Why would you ever leave? You've worked so hard for this. This is prestigious. You have a status, and it's what I call the status trap, because some people get into the status trap. Well, I have this big title and I have this big degree or this big role or this income. The financial piece can keep you in the status trap for good reasons, right.
Speaker 3:But what I would challenge you to do is think about three potential paths that you could take, three things that you could potentially do. And so, to give you an example, going back to my story, years ago, I thought about going back and getting my PhD as well, and so once I started looking at the pros and cons of that and what I really wanted to do in my career, I decided you know what? That's a potential path if I wanted to become a tenured professor. But I was like, well, I want to do consulting and writing and speaking and all of these things. So that's not necessarily the ideal path, but that was one of the paths that I mapped out. A second path was well, I want to be chief people officer in an organization one day, like I was VP, yes, but I was like I want to be a chief people officer in the organization that I was in. That's technically what I was, because I only rolled into the CEO, I was part of the C-suite, but still I was like I still want to keep moving up in the organization potentially. So that was one path.
Speaker 3:And then the other path was I want to be an entrepreneur. But that's the path that was the scariest, that's the disruptive path, that's the least comfortable path, because if you think that you're an organization right now and that it's hard and tough. I've been there. I get it. Yes, there can be challenges and challenges. You have to be politically savvy and navigate all of the things, but entrepreneurship is the scariest lead, personally, that I've ever taken, and I've spoken to so many other entrepreneurs and we glamorize it as well that people think, oh my gosh, you can just go out there and make a bunch of money and it's like there's a lot of risk but there's also a lot of reward with entrepreneurship.
Speaker 3:But I would not. I don't regret it, I would not have chosen anything different, but I had to assess which path would feed me the most in terms of my own fulfillment and the level of impact that I could make externally, but also the level of legacy that I can leave internally with my family, and for me, entrepreneurship is that path. So I would say, map out three paths, map out three things and think big. It could be something that is not a role right now that is in place. I mean, we didn't have digital marketing or SEO marketing or AI analysts or specialists. We didn't have any of those things 10, 15 years ago.
Speaker 3:So think big. Map out something that you know that there will be a need for or that you know your organization has a need for now and see if they'll let you transition into that role without having to take this big risk and leave. See if you can do something within your organization. Like my story at the beginning, I transitioned in my own organization and stayed there for almost 10 years total five years in sales, five years in HR because that was. It was just such as they knew my work and I also could add value because I knew other areas of the business. So don't feel like you have to make these moves. Unless you really don't want to remain in the company, that's okay too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and you know it goes back to what you talked about earlier with your genius zone and really finding you know what you're super, super good at and what you really, really enjoy doing. We actually had an episode on figuring out what your genius zone was a few weeks ago, so I invite everyone to go and check that out as well. So all this has been really great. How can people get in touch with you to work with you and learn more about the ways that you help?
Speaker 3:Yes, so you can find me at vnicholandruzecom. So that's T-H-E nicholandruzecom. John, if you don't mind, I have to tell a quick story on that.
Speaker 2:Yes, go for it.
Speaker 3:I tried to buy my domain like nicholandruzecom but it's owned by someone else and I literally went through the process of bidding for it didn't get it. So I had to choose the Nicholandruze. And because, again, the ego part was like I don't want people to think like the Nicholandruze but honestly, if I could leave you all with anything, you are the only you in this world. I have a picture in my office that says no one is you and that is your superpower. So you are the John Henson. Even if there are other John Henson's, you are the John Henson.
Speaker 3:I am the Nicholandruze and owning your story. This is a perfect wrap up for this, because owning your story is about owning that. You are the whoever filling the blank with your name, and so it's thenicholandruzecom for me and my email reach out to me nicholandruzecom. You can find all of the contact information there. If you choose, you can also follow me on LinkedIn. I haven't been on LinkedIn I'll be honest in a while just due to personal reasons, but I'm looking to get back out there. Linkedin is my kind of go-to on other platforms, but LinkedIn is the place to find me at the Nicholandruze official.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Yeah, no, I actually ran into the same issue with my own like side projects and stuff like that, so I ended up taking the John Henson like on Twitter and Instagram. I did a different URL but cause there's some dude, some like piano composer, whatever, I don't know, but whatever, but I can absolutely relate to that and so I love that you shared that. Love. That. That's the note that we end on. Definitely go check Nicole out, and you know she does a lot of great speaking, has a lot of great resources out there to just help you out along that journey. So that is gonna do it for us this week. Thanks so much for continuing to listen and we will see you next week. Nicole, thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening. To learn more, go to spotlightbrandingcom slash center stage. Thank you.