Aid Station
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Ep 20 - Running a 100 mile Ultra - (Feat - Centurion SDW100)
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Kev discusses running 100 miles with Hannah Hall and Lizzie Gatherer who both completed the Centurion South Downs 100 in June. If you are looking to step up to a 100 mile ultra marathon, looking for inside info, or just love ultra banter, this episode is for you.
This episode features:
https://www.centurionrunning.com/
https://lakeland100.com/
https://www.dragonsbackrace.com/
Aid Station website where you can find the episodes or leave comment https://www.aidstation.co.uk/
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There it is. In the distance. I can see it. Next exit station.
SPEAKER_06Hello all and welcome to the twentieth edition of AidStation. It's the middle of July. It's absolutely scorching hot. About to get 40 degrees at Heathrow Airport reported today. So I hope you're all able to chill out. You're not out running in this heat, which will probably kill you. I guess everybody's getting out early morning or late in the evening if they can, or hitting the gyms with some air conditioning. Anyway, this edition uh is all about running a hundred miles. I'm about uh what, nine days away from the Lakeland 100. And as I've mentioned earlier, Lizzie uh Gatherer and Hannah Hall completed the South Downs 100 back in June. So I thought I'd catch up with Hannah and Lizzie and chat a bit about running hundred milers and what's involved, it's quite a big step to take when you want to move up to that distance. So hopefully there's some useful stuff on here, some insightful stuff and some inspirational information that maybe get you to the point where you would want to take on a hundred miler in your journey for ultralunning. So without further ado, here's the cowbells of inspiration. I'm joined today by Hannah Hall and Lizzie Gatherer. Um on this really hot July day, uh we've decided to discuss hundred mile ultra running. Um and specifically hundred miles is a topic, and it's about thirty degrees outside, so I don't think anybody want to be running a hundred miles in this today. Uh but Lizzie and Hannah have just um well last month completed the South Downs 100 Centurion event, and it was Lizzie's first hundred and Hannah's first hundred for about 11, 12 years, yeah. Uh so that's almost like starting all over again. So it'd be great to cover off um what it's like or where you get to mentally to think, oh, I'm gonna run a hundred miles. Um so Lizzie, when because you're I keep saying you're fairly new to Ultra, but um you've done quite a few now. But at what point did you get to what stage did you get to where you think oh I could run a hundred miler?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I've never had a desire to run a hundred miles because I think a lot of people for them it's a big milestone because of the number. For me, it's more about the scenery, so I'm I'm never bothered by distance. Um, in fact, the only reason I entered it was because of Hannah, because she was just getting back into ultra running and wanted to do the Brenda Parker way, or park way, as Hannah called it, and said, Would I run it with her? And this is before Hannah had even started training, so I was like, Yeah, yeah, sure, no problem. And then so then I started keeping an eye on Hannah Strava, and I was like, Oh my god, what does she mean? Can I run it with her? She's absolutely steaming through all this training really, really fast. I'm not going to be able to keep up with her, so I was really worried. And then anyway, the race got cancelled, but you did the Hannah did something else instead. I'd already done the 82, and then Hannah said the only reason for doing the Brenda Parker was to qualify her for the hundred. So then I was like, Oh well, if Hannah's doing that, I may as well do it, otherwise, I'm just gonna be sat at home dot watching, thinking, oh well, why didn't I do that? So I don't know. So it's very linked. I for most reasonable I had no intention of ever doing a hundred. I wasn't bothered about the number, but because Hannah was doing it, I did it. And weirdly, since then, I it's reactions from non-runners, it's actually quite a big deal to do a hundred if you're not a runner. You know, it doesn't matter that I've done harder in terms of elevation. Um, my husband is going around telling everyone taxi drivers in Mexico.
SPEAKER_01My wife ran a hundred miles a couple of weeks ago.
SPEAKER_02Um, so yeah, um, I don't know, there was no thought process other than Hannah was doing it, so I thought I'll do it. Are you pleased you did that? I uh yeah, no, I'm I'm pleased I did it, um, but I'm in a weird place right now because it's just like I've run a hundred miles, um, I've done a mountainous 75 miles. What else is there possibly to do? So I'm just having the summer off from ultras and just. I'm sure Kev's got some ideas of what else you could do.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. Well, my mindset is always like, well, done that, what's next?
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, well I'm normally like that, but this time I sort of think the the what's next could perhaps be like skyline, but I'm not I'm not brave enough. You know, I wouldn't ever, I've got you know, I won't even do Crip Gok, so there's no way I'm gonna enter anything scarier, it would just be more of the same, really, I think.
SPEAKER_06How about you, Hannah? When what I mean if you turn the clock way back to I don't know, 2007, 8, whatever you were doing before you did Lakeland in 2009, where mentally did you think, oh, I can I'm gonna run a hundred miles or was it always there?
SPEAKER_03My first hundred was UTMB. Oh yeah. And I wanted to do that because I was just hugely drawn to the race. I'd climbed Mont Blanc a couple of years before, then got into Ultras and then heard about this race, and it just looked insane as it is and still is. Um, and I just I just was really drawn to the area and the idea of the race, and at that time I was strong on on hills and elevations, so it just um yeah, it was just a massive bucket list one to do, and I was very lucky because I think I was the last year where you could just qualify, get your points, and then you were guaranteed a place. Um whereas now there's a a ballot, and I think it's it's really hard.
SPEAKER_06So it was more about UTMB than you know, if UTMB had been 98 miles, it it wouldn't have mattered.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, no, it's much it was definitely the race and the challenge, and I'd done a few 50s and 60s. Um, there wasn't really anything else as an interim, um, so it did feel like a quite a big step up. Um but yeah, that was it was definitely the race rather than the distance.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Because I'm just fascinated by particularly for people that might be listening to the podcast, how you know, mentally that you know, when you've run your first marathon, people are like, how the heck do you do that?
SPEAKER_02I think the mindset is so important because I so for me now I've done two races that I can't think I could ever beat in terms of mental challenge because the the second ultra I ever did um was 82 miles, it was hard worlds, um, and I was not trained for it, I was very unprepared, I didn't have any experience, and that to this day was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, and I don't think I could ever beat that, even though I've since run that race, it was a different experience because I knew what I was doing, and I had shoes that fitted, uh you know, I had running poles, um, which makes a big difference. Um, and then I did the Gwynn Harris, which is at the beginning I didn't think I could ever complete that. So I think because of those two races, mentally I feel like I could do anything because nothing could possibly be harder, and I really believe that nothing can be harder than what those two things have done. But I think that just shows your mind is so so important. So I think to enter a hundred, you need to be mentally fit and mentally trained if you're gonna do it and enjoy it.
SPEAKER_03I think I think definitely the further you go, the more it comes down to the mental side of it as much as the physical. And if you if you get some training and some experience under your belt, I think go give a hundred a go. I mean, realistically, there's not many people who do a hundred without doing some walking. Um, people always say a hundred miles is ridiculous. Like, how do you get your head around it? And I don't think you do get your head around it because it is ridiculous. So the trick is not to think about it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, you can't train for it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, can you I remember sitting at Lakeland 100 and we had a pep talk the night before by Josh Naylor of all people, uh, and his advice was just take it one field, one fence, one tree at a time, and I think that's that's absolutely true.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think the South Dance Way was the first time I've ever gone checkpoint to checkpoint. I I never once thought about the dis the well I I lied, there was a I was there many, many things went wrong during that race. Um, but uh quite early on I made the decision don't think about the end, don't think about the distance. So yeah, I went checkpoint to checkpoint, um, and I've I don't think I've ever done it to that extreme before as I did in that race. I think it I it would have been really overwhelming, I think, to think about the complete distance.
SPEAKER_03I I remember the moment I thought about it on UTMB, and it was about 12 hours no, nearly 24 hours in, uh, at about mile 60. Uh, and I started thinking about how much further it was and how tired I was, and the fact I'd already run through one night and how long I still had to go. And I just sat I just stopped. I sat down on the side of a path at the bottom of a mountain and and just stopped for about 20 minutes. I couldn't pull myself together. I just thought about it too much, and it's only it was only the idea of right, I'll just go to the next checkpoint and drop out from there, but I've got to get to the checkpoint, so got there, then I was like, oh yeah, that's where the main thing is.
SPEAKER_06Application comes in at that point, doesn't it? And where it can also break.
SPEAKER_03Where it can also break you if you if you just overbreak it where you had to think you think about it too much. Physically, I think I was okay.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So let's talk about specific uh if I could say the word, specifics of running uh 100 miles. So what was your prep like for the latest for the South Downs way? How much running did you do?
SPEAKER_02We did very, very different preparations. Hannah is proper, I would say Hannah's textbook, she has like a training plan.
SPEAKER_03I'm I'm like I'm like a I'm a planner, I need a plan. I don't have the confidence to be at the start line of a race unless I've done a plan and ticked the plan off. Um so I'd train pretty hard from September to June. Um, done two fifties as build-up races, probably trained a bit too hard. Might not have followed all of Coach Kev's advice about not racing the the build-up races. Uh, as a result, ended up injured three weeks out before the the South Downs hundred. But yeah, I mean Lizzie's right, I like a I like a plan. Um back-to-back runs for me were the the biggest thing, so I'd do lots of double double days running. Um couple of times I did double days but four runs in those two days, so morning evening, morning, evening. Right. Uh lots of running on tired legs.
SPEAKER_06And were they did you do um back to backs, like long back to backs on the weekend?
SPEAKER_03I think the longest I did was 30 and 26, I think.
SPEAKER_06Right. And what would be your peak mileage, do you think? Peak mileage?
SPEAKER_03Uh I had a couple of weeks of 70, but nothing nothing crazy.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh consistently 40 to 40 minimum, consistently around 50, and a couple of a few peaking up to 16, 70. Right. Um, but I like to do quite a lot of strength work as well. Um, I think for me there's definitely a point of no return with the running sort of over going consistently over 60 or 70 miles is just too much for me, and and time I just don't, it's just too much.
SPEAKER_06Life gets in the way. Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Liza?
SPEAKER_02Wine was very different. So I I think I had to stop looking at Hannes Strava because I just found it quite upsetting. Uh and it was making me very, very worried uh about myself. But I certainly did so for me, my big thing was the Gwynn Harris round. It's all I've thought about since October last year. So I knew as long as I continued doing the root recis for that and running the actual thing, I didn't act really need to do anything else because that was all the I I sort of knew that was all the training I needed. So I had a lot lot less mileage, but it was all all everything I did was in the mountains with extreme amounts of elevation, really. So I was I was doing back-to-back days, but it it would be I can't even remember now, but I think the longest run would have been 20 miles, and then the following day maybe 10 miles, but it was all in the Brecken Beacons. Um, and then I had Hannah and I had entered the Blacks to the Beacons, which I felt was an ideal warm-up for Gwyn Harris. So everything was to do with Gwyn Harris, to be honest, South Townsway, because it was three weeks after I wasn't even thinking about it. I knew as long as I got Gwyn Harris done, um, I'd be fine to do the South Townsway. So yeah, I think I did I certainly did the training, but there was no I wouldn't have said I didn't like sit down and plan it, and it just kind of all fell into place, really, but because I was so focused on a on a different race. Um, and then mentally, um I there's a lady called Lucy Waldridge. I train with her some at Blaze, the boot camp I go to that Hannah's co-owner of. Um, she's a mindset coach. I've seen her a few I'm I'm quite positive anyway, but I've seen her for three sessions, and I think the lessons I've learned from her are really, really valuable, and you can well you can apply them to any aspect of life, um, but she specifically prepares me for things that I deem tricky. So I used her for the hard worlds, and I used her for Gwynn Harris, and I used her for Backyard, and everything I learnt from her really came into play on self-dance way. It just it was just thing after thing going wrong, and I was just using the ammo that she the mental ammo that she gave me, I was using, and it just made me get through everything. So I probably came a bit off track there. So just mental training, yeah. So in terms of preparation, I did just training for Gwyn Harris and then a lot of mental training too.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So in your your build-up to the South Downs, it it seems like South Downs wasn't a target at all. Gwyn Harris totally was.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06But even off the back of that, and just to explain Gwynn Harris is about seven. Seventy-five miles and twenty one, twenty-two thousand feet. Yeah. Um so off the back of that, three weeks later, you found the South Downs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I hadn't thought that through either.
SPEAKER_06Um I didn't run.
SPEAKER_02I think between I remember Hannah texting me, I think, and I just casually replied back, like, oh yeah, I'll probably do a couple of three mile runs. Because essentially I finished Gwyn Harris, I had to have one week off to recover, and then I was straight into the two-week taper for South Downs Way. So I think I did two or maybe three three-mile runs in the three weeks leading up to South Downs Way. But I knew I'd be fine because all the training was there. I just needed to make sure I didn't put on too much weight because one of those weeks was at work in Scotland and the food there is excellent. So I just have to be careful with weight gain, but um yeah.
SPEAKER_06So let's talk about specifics of the race, then an actual race day. So um what was your approach, Hannah? Um what were your aims on race day?
SPEAKER_03Uh I I'd been planning the race for such a long time, and it was definitely my A race, but I said the wheels had slightly come off, I've been injured and then been poorly and then picked up a bit of plantar fasciitis in my foot. So I I know lots of runners at the start line of a race like to do all the false modesty thing about how they're not very fit or they're not gonna do very well. But I said to Lizzie at the start, then I I genuinely don't know if I'm gonna get to mile 10, let alone mile 100, because I just it'd just been such a rubbish few weeks. Um so yeah, that wasn't that wasn't ideal, but actually when I started running, I I yeah, it seemed like everything was gonna be okay, and it and as is so often the way with ultras, the thing that you're worried about uh being a problem during the race is often not the thing that ends up being a problem. Everything else hurts instead.
SPEAKER_06Um so you started out just to run the first 10 miles then, basically.
SPEAKER_03I just I just genuinely wasn't sure how it was I was fully prepared to not be able to get any further than that. Um but actually everything everything held out more or less okay. Um so I had a had a rough plan from a pacing point of view. Um it was pretty warm, wasn't it? Yeah, um it was warm. It doesn't have to be that warm on the South Downs because it's so exposed. Um so it felt felt pretty hot pretty early.
SPEAKER_02For me, I it was between I think checkpoint three and four. I think I just remember that being hot because it was quite exposed, and I don't know, even the environment around it was like grassy stuff, but that seemed to be pushing the heat onto me even more. So um yeah, it was it was really warm.
SPEAKER_06Is there there's not a lot of shade, is there on that route? I guess on the south bank.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was nothing at all, very exposed, and white chalk just bouncing the heat off.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, um how did you find the the uh centurion organisation?
SPEAKER_03Oh, I love that. I mean, absolutely phenomenal. Like that that race is super slick, the marshals are amazing, the checkpoints were amazing.
SPEAKER_02Well the checkpoints were signage down for there. So I I'd taken what I really loved about this was I knew, so I've been so used to being self-sufficient in Wells. My pack is so heavy with all the you know, survival blanket, torture I know I won't need, but you've got to have it just in case. Tracker, like loads of food, loads of like two litres of water, and then I came into this race knowing we were fully supported, so my backpack just felt empty, and I took a an empty sandwich bag with me, and the plan was to stock up with food and run with it. But there was one checkpoint, I think it was the third one, and it was so good. This guy had homemade so much food, and there was like little blackboard menus with all the ingredients, like every single thing, and I literally pulled up a chair and I sat there and had a three-course meal, and after quite a long time, I was like, Oh god, I'm in a race, and I just got my sandwich bag out and filled it up with loads of food. And I I think I must have been there maybe 20 minutes just stuff in my face. The food was so good. Um, so yeah, beware the checkpoints, they're excellent. But the marshals are amazing, so supportive, um, really thoughtful. They had like um they were hosing us and had dunk buckets you could like dunk your hat, and I mean some people might deem this not very hygienic. Soaking wet hat on your head. Um, yeah, so just try not to think about what that water's been when you put it back on your head.
SPEAKER_06So um you said lots of things went wrong.
SPEAKER_02I've never had a race quite like that. I've been I'm in an R in how honest I should be, because I know you've had five, is it over 5,000 downloads? Is that right? Other than podcasts, oh yeah, so yeah, so that's a lot of people that potentially could hear this, but I've decided it's ultraronic. It's only about 20 people downloads. I'm gonna be very, very honest. Yeah, go on. So my period started that morning, which has never ever ever ever happened on a run before, and I needed a poo at every single checkpoint. Like, I have no idea, both those things have not happened before, and it was incredibly frustrating because it was just um the first issue, yeah. So I was concerned because I've never run an Ultra during when it's my time of the month. Uh I didn't quite know how that was going to pan out, and it was a constant niggly worry the entire race. Um, luckily it was all fine. Um, then with the number twos, um, that just meant uh just wasting time every single checkpoint with the toilet. I was in the loo. Uh um that then um so then I was getting funny stomach pains, obviously. Just before going, um, I had weird. Oh, this when I first started, I fell over like we had to do two laps of the bowl, um, and I fell over, and I just thought, oh my god, I don't normally fall over towards the end, and then I was like, Oh, it's because Gwyn Harris is still in my legs, oh no, and then I started overthinking the distance, and that was literally I hadn't even gone two miles at that point, I think. Um, but I thought it mentally, I dealt with that with Lucy's advice and help. Uh, and then what else? The pains, I had weird foot pain, the same foot pain that I had at the backyard came back. I had an inner thigh pain. Um, that meant it was very difficult to just move the heat. Um, I had to do a one run walk thing between checkpoints. Um, between three and four, I ran walk the entire way, which was really frustrating because I just felt like I wasn't moving, but I think it just it worked, I think it was an efficient run walk. Um, what else? Oh, the sleepiness. I've been suffering with insomnia, my old insomnia for months, and I hadn't slept at all. Um, and I just I think around the 10 mile mark, I just realised how tired, sleepy I was, and then it was I just thought I've got a really I'd have to be awake for a really, really long time, and I could just lie down and go to sleep. So I had all yeah, so normally things don't I'm usually a very lucky runner, but um it just felt like there was a lot against me, but none of it mattered. It all was an amazing, right? I just got I just got through it all. I was like the pain is fine, that will go away. Um you know there's a toilet at every single checkpoint, I can deal with that. So it just there was I had a solution to everything, and I just got through it all. Um, and I think that's from experience, maybe. I know I've only been doing it a couple of years, but um I think if that had happened in an earlier ultra run, I put I don't know what it would not have been such a good outcome, I think.
SPEAKER_06So yeah, and you still completed it inside 24 hours?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was that was weird because I was thinking maybe about 26 hours, um, and I hadn't really thought about the time. I I I came across a lot of people who said to me, Oh, you know, I'm aiming for sub 24, but all of them had a pacer with them, um, and I just didn't think much of it. I just thought, oh, we're just sort of together now, um, that doesn't mean anything, and it was only really the last one of the last checkpoints was in this really pretty church, I think. And I was in there um enjoying food again, uh, and they were literally kicking people, they were throwing people out the door. They were like, they said, How much time we had? I think it was something like I don't know, maybe two and a half hours to do X amount, whatever it was, whatever the time was, so the miles left, it was easily achievable to get sub-24 if if we walked out the door when they were kicking us out. So um he threw me out the door and said, you know, you can do sub-24. And I was like, Oh, but then of course I left there and I was like, Oh my god, oh my god, I'm gonna be sub-24, and then I was like worrying about it, but then um then there was like a really weird, overgrown area, and I got very distracted by the I don't know, I suppose when you've been on running for that time, you do sort of start your mind easily wanders, and then I forgot about the 24 thing, and it was all it was all good, but I did fall over in the last two miles. Um I still have an issue. I landed on my coccyx and it still really hurts, and that was what four weeks ago. Was that down the lot? That was down a dewy, chalky, narrow path. Um, and I just landed on my bum. My blister, one of my blisters like ripped off my foot as my feet went from under, and the pain just jarred through me, and I staggered up and I just thought I was in so much pain. And the guy behind me he was like, Oh my god, are you okay? I was like, I don't think I can I'm in so much pain, I can't move. I was like, No, I can't quit like two miles from the end. But again, it just I don't know, it went and it was fine.
SPEAKER_06So how about you, Hannah?
SPEAKER_03Um it was just a tough day out.
SPEAKER_06Um because you said something about the the brokenness of the trails or something.
SPEAKER_03I I've never I've never ever done a race where my feet have got so battered. Oh my god, yeah. And I lots of people at the end said said the same. I think the South Downs is really loose and stony and have been particularly dry, so there was no give in what might otherwise have been softer stuff. I mean we were lucky it was dry because if all that rock is wet, it's obviously harder going. Um but my feet were in absolute bits at mile 50. Um, I'd actually stashed my my road shoes, uh, which seemed a bit stupid, um, for a trail ultra, um, and my drop bag for mile 50, and I had a long discussion with one of the marshals uh at mile 50 about whether I should change my shoes or not, and he was like, No, you know, might get a bit damp overnight. Or um thankfully I uh went with my own decision and changed into my road shoes, which took my feet from extremely uncomfortable to just mildly uncomfortable for the rest of the race. But yeah, it's it's a tough underfoot that race. I've never had feet quite like that. I mean, yeah, I mean mine was swollen for about for about six days after the race, like proper balloon feet. Yeah, it was it was quite funny. Not very pretty. I could barely get shoes on. Um so yeah, not not not have that before on a race, that was fun.
SPEAKER_02But it's a really beautiful course. Oh, like stunning the whole way, really lovely. There's so much of it that's really, really runnable um and just fun, you know, because it's easy, it's easy running, um, you know, proper arms out, we aeroplane style. Um, there's so many sections you can just fly along. Uh the views are amazing, the checkpoints, the marshals.
SPEAKER_03And we were lucky, it was I mean, it was a beautiful, beautiful day. So like sunset and the night. Yeah, and it was quite a the moon was out, um, sunrise. Yeah, I saw some amazing pictures people took. Kev sent me a very well-timed text uh when I was sort of struggling a bit just as it was getting dark, saying something about enjoying, just enjoy being out at night, uh, which was a good little reminder to just be a bit mindful in the moment and just enjoy because the night running was was hard, but it was it was a gorgeous, gorgeous night to be out and quite deeply surreal running past all the farm animals and the sheep and the sleeping cows and the sheep.
SPEAKER_02So the centurion's really well marked, actually, one of the best marked courses I've certainly ever done, and they have reflective um things on all the markers. Um but I was running through a field with sheep, and it was really confusing me because obviously all the sheep's eyes were reflecting because of my head torch, and even though the eyes were the were a different colour to the markers, I still kept veering off towards the sheep, and then I was like, oh no, no, that that's a that's a sheep.
SPEAKER_01I need to go, I need to go this way.
SPEAKER_03Um I have to apologise to the guy who followed me when I went wrong at about one o'clock in the morning. I went half a mile in the wrong direction down a really, really steep hill, and it wasn't until I got to the bottom to a gate that I realised I'd gone wrong, and then I turned around and looked, and it was just this sheer rocky hill back up half a mile, and the some poor local just followed me. I think he said some rude words as he turned around. That was his fault, I wasn't. And there was no need to get lost. I there were it was marked. Um I just had a bit of a brain fog moment, I think. I saw the marker and went to the left of it rather than to the right of it.
SPEAKER_06So neither of you really got to the point where you couldn't that it was like, oh, I can't do this anymore.
SPEAKER_03It was a bit non-negotiable for me. My um my eight-year-old's last words to me were, Mummy, whatever you do, don't give up. So um there was no chance. Um yeah, it did feel like a bit of a compromise for me overnight between um slowing down and making sure I finished or or pushing, and I got quite woozy in the night um and I was running very much by myself over the night section. Right. Um, so yeah, it definitely felt like it was a bit of a trade-off to slow down, which is a bit frustrating. I would have liked to have finished stronger, uh, but at the same time.
SPEAKER_06But neither of you had a pacer, did you?
SPEAKER_03No, no, and I hadn't realised how many people have so many secrets and shoes.
SPEAKER_06Well I raise it because I'm anti.
SPEAKER_03I'm anti-anti for you or anti them being there in general.
SPEAKER_06Um yeah, I think it's a race, you know, even if you don't consider your racing, and I know sometimes you don't.
SPEAKER_03I just it did feel like they had a huge advantage having a pacer. I think I think mentally, but also you know, I've I've not witnessed paces in action so much, and I don't I mean they were all absolutely lovely. Oh yeah, not knocking on holding gates open, all the runners, running ahead to checkpoints and getting the food. I'm like, wow, this is that's a yeah, because I that helps a lot.
SPEAKER_02I've never really seen them in action like that before, and they were incredible, or it was like it was their job, they all was like professional verses, you know. Like because I ran with a a guy for a little while, and his she was just amazing, she was an absolute delight in his pacer, and um just so like I was feeding off her energy as well.
SPEAKER_03Uh but I know what you mean because I did feel disadvantaged not having a pacer, and I think the thing that I missed was although everyone was very friendly and the pacers were really friendly. I think naturally, if you've got a pacer, you're then a pair. Um, and I've never run a race where I've run so much alone in the night.
SPEAKER_06I'd kind of expected I'd end up running with one or two people, which has normally been my experience, but I think because nearly it felt like nearly everyone else had a pacer, it was there was slightly less um I have to say I'm anti-pacing in all forms, so you know, like in the marathon where they have all the you know superstar paces and things like that, you know, right it's a race as far as I'm concerned, but um yeah, I also think that part of ultra running is being out there on your own, self-sufficient, getting through the thing yourself. Um yeah, I don't know. I'm not saying oh there's a major advantage for somebody because you know clearly I'm not gonna win anything, but I just I just think you lose that element of I achieved a hundred miles on my own. Yeah, that that's the way I view it. Because they join is it at 25 miles? They do in the autumn hundred yeah. I was 50, was it? Yeah, yeah. See, I think that's just it's like running a 50 and then running a 50 with is a pair, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02I felt like well another thing I really liked about it was because there were so many people in the race. I felt like it's interesting you say you ran a lot on your own. Uh for me, I felt like there was people everywhere, you know. I I guess I'm so used to running on my own in Wales, yeah, it was like the polar opposite. I always seem to be encountering other people, and even just random walkers. There was one guy really happy guy with uh like a box of he was like, Hey, I I won't do the American accent, but he was like, Hey, I've got crisps, I've got cold water, what do you want?
SPEAKER_01And I just remember like taking this bag of crisps, and like, are you sure? And he was like, Yes, you're running a hundred miles, you deserve a packing.
SPEAKER_03I don't I don't know how that every single walker seemed to know what we were doing as well. I didn't have anyone ask us, they all they all knew and they were all super supportive, it was quite sweet.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was quite yeah, quite a lovely atmosphere, I think, on the course. Just yeah, a lot of nice, a lot of nice people.
SPEAKER_06So, what's next? Where are you with hundreds?
SPEAKER_03Lizzie's just staring at me. So I I run the South Downs way and very vividly remember running along at night saying to myself, I'm never doing a hundred again, they're absolutely horrible, they really, really hurt. This is me done. Uh but I had when I was injured just before the South Downs, I had had a little panic where I thought I wasn't going to get to do the hundred. Uh, so I'd entered another hundred as a backup race. Um, so in due course the week following the South Downs, I went to cancel it, um, literally loaded up the website, had my finger hovering over cancel, and I just I did it about three times. I just couldn't, I couldn't quite press the button. So I said, well, I'll just I've got another, I think I had another week until I couldn't get any money back. So I was like, well, I'll just just see where my head's at. And um, but I'd told a couple of friends and my husband, don't let me ever run 100 again. Um so I was a bit scared about telling anyone that hadn't cancelled uh the North Downs, but I still haven't cancelled the North Downs and it's getting quite close now. So just look at Hannah Straby, you know she's training before.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's only about three weeks away, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, three weeks.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. And that one is am I right? Is that hillier than so?
SPEAKER_03From from speaking to people on the Centurion Facebook group, I think it's the elevation is only is actually a fraction less, uh, but the hills are steeper, but there's flatter bits in between. So South Downs is like undulating the whole way. Yeah, um, whereas this one is yeah, bigger, sharper hills, but and it's also prone to really hot weather.
SPEAKER_06It is a little bit, yeah, and it's 103 miles, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Although the South Downs I did manage to get lost and run about 102 miles, so hey.
SPEAKER_06Oh, you'll go fine. You might you might this might be a better race, maybe.
SPEAKER_03Well that's kind of what I'm hoping because um uh the the South Downs wasn't a bad race, but I didn't feel like I acquitted myself as well as I could have done. Yeah. Um that it might have just been timing. I think the the other two hundred miles that I've done, I've definitely had wobbly bits, wobbly moments where I felt pretty awful. Um I've I've finished both of those feeling really strong. Uh like my last 20 miles on both those races were were really good, and it was and it's lovely to finish feeling feeling good, whereas I felt like I kind of crawled to the finish of the South Downs, and that might have just been that I just had my wobbly moment in the last 20, not a middle 20, but I just it I I didn't feel satisfied with the race, not not strictly speaking because of the time or anything else, just you know, that feeling that you've done as well as you could have done or not. Um so yeah, might might give another one a crack and see how it goes.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's great. So they're they're only what's that a couple of months apart.
SPEAKER_03So I think it's seven seven weeks.
SPEAKER_06Seven weeks, yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's quite interesting to see how well part of it's sheer laziness because I was looking at doing another hundred either next year or in the autumn, and then the idea of having to come off the training peak and then ramp it up again. I was like, yeah, or I could just kind of chill for a couple of weeks, do do one or two long runs and then taper again. Yeah. In some ways, it seems like the easy option. Uh I'm very nervous about that. If you're in one piece, if it's over 30 degrees, I'm in I'm in big trouble.
SPEAKER_06Well, everybody is, aren't they? I mean, yeah, it's just ridiculous.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think I just physically like I'd I've had such a good 18 months of running right up until about three weeks before the South Downs. So it's all there, it just wasn't quite there on the on the start line, which again is just a little bit frustrating.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, well, it will be this time then.
SPEAKER_03Well then he's as you said to me after the race, you know, you've got to do a lot of long stuff to get good at the long stuff. And although I'd done a couple of 50s, I hadn't had that chance to go. Like the 75, the Brenda Parker would have been a ri would have been a really good training run, I think, because it would have got me um training up that up to that distance.
SPEAKER_06That's right. It's quite difficult, you know, going back to the start, like when you incrementally go from marathon. Yeah, it's quite easy to find a 50k, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Only another four miles. So um, but after that, you know, you're then jumping into 50s, and then there's not much between 50 and 70, not many events around. Everybody wants to do these magic numbers, don't they?
SPEAKER_03And I used to do the the Felsman, which was 62 miles, but that was 62 really hard miles, so that was a lot of time on feet, which was which was great. But um, yeah, you're right, that the Brenda Parker would have been a would have been a great that's I think 70, was it 78 miles, something like that?
SPEAKER_00I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um so you're done with hundreds then, Lizzie.
SPEAKER_00I well she didn't say that. She didn't say that. No, I'm just I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I don't I don't know what my normally I have a plan, um, but I don't at the moment. I have a friend who said to me she was interested, she liked the idea of running an ultra, and I've now got her to the point where she has said, okay, I will run an ultra as long as you do it with me. So it looks like my next ultra will be in September. We we haven't signed up yet, but it's probably the new forest as it seems like a good a good one for for someone's first time. Yeah. Um, but the I don't know, there's I I'm really in love with Wales, um, and there is actually a Black Mountains round. So maybe, maybe that will be the the next goal.
SPEAKER_06Um do you think that's more your thing? I mean, besides it's in the mountains, I mean like doing rounds, doing stuff on your own.
SPEAKER_02I really, really, maybe, because I really have with Gwynn Harris, I really enjoyed all the prep. There was so you know, you do okay, I say I didn't have a training schedule, but I did have to plan, you know, I had to plan time away from home, hotel accommodation, um, you know, organising a tracker uh to hire um all my food, you know, that and I really enjoy all the prep and the thinking about it, um, but then it does take a lot of time away from my general life. Uh so I don't know, um I don't know, I just really really like running.
SPEAKER_03So but I also think it's good to to have a mental break from yeah, from planning for something and training for something.
SPEAKER_02Like you, you know, you have as you said, you sort of am October focused on Gwyn Harris, and I think I've had insomnia actually, because every single night is is all uh I have it literally is all I've thought about since October.
SPEAKER_03Um I don't I don't think you can sustain that kind of mental pressure as well as the physical training. So I'm looking forward to a summer off.
SPEAKER_06With Lizzie coming like with my coaching hat on and finding people's potential, you don't you've never entered anything and raced it, is my impression. You never put pressure on yourself.
SPEAKER_00No, I think either reason.
SPEAKER_06You weren't even aiming to go sub 24.
SPEAKER_00No, I'm not gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_06So I'm always fascinated to know what you can do if you planned and trained for a specific event.
SPEAKER_02Well, actually, I kind of did once because over lockdown uh I was working on my pace, and then I got to the point where I I felt fit, like it was a weird I had I don't know how to describe it, I had this fitness running through my veins, and I just felt like fit. So uh and I was getting really, really fast. So I thought, oh, you know, if I could enter an ultra, this this is the time to do it, and then the fox got um rescheduled, so I was able to enter the fox, but actually I didn't enjoy it because I knew I was fit, and I knew in theory I could do it well, and I just remember that day just the amount of pressure I put on myself, and it was really hot as well, and um and I got low that I got lost immediately, like literally, I wasn't even a mile from the start, and I just followed everyone else down the canal. Luckily, I didn't go as far. Some people made it to the next village before they realised they'd gone wrong. So I only added two miles on, but that was right at the beginning. Um, and actually, to be honest, my time I don't think it was any different to if I'd have just run it. The main difference was I didn't enjoy it. So I don't I don't know. Um I get very I don't know, yeah. Um I get very competitive like with myself and put a lot of pressure on myself so I don't know if I um yeah, I I don't know if I'd enjoy something if I raced it.
SPEAKER_06But look at your backyard. Yeah, oh I mean, talk about competitive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I bloody foot. I would like to I would like to do that again. Yeah. And win.
SPEAKER_06It's in there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. See, I I think you race everything. You just you just don't think you're racing it. You don't you don't race it from a time point of view, but you're always pushing yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know that I am though. Because like when I so I did the 80 10k recently, because I thought Well that doesn't count. I thought I thought, let's do something out of my comfort zone. And I was pushing my fat myself the first two kilometres and I hated it and it hurt because I was running faster than what I used to. So then I thought, well, this is silly. So then I stopped looking at my watch and I slowed down, it was really lovely and fun. So you know, I think to be fair to yourself, that's off the back of yeah, but that's not the silly scale.
SPEAKER_06Your frame from the Taving Cali was uh was Mexico, yeah, was a round followed by a hundred, followed by a recovery Mexico.
SPEAKER_02The point I'm trying to make is I can push myself mentally, which is why the number, the number of miles to me is irrelevant because I know I'm so confident I can do it because I've got the mental ability to do it, but to push myself as in physically and make myself go faster. I'm not sure I have that in me because it's only one thing to do, if you're gonna have to write your training plan and make her do it.
SPEAKER_03Well, I can see you itching to get your hands on it.
SPEAKER_06No, I don't think she would. I don't think she'd follow it, Anna. No, I am interested. I'd love to see how far she could. You you your um big thing at the moment is your powers of recovery always amaze me. Yeah, you just seem to bounce back from everything and just able to do it.
SPEAKER_02Definitely because I'm good at resting, superpowers that you take that rest days very seriously.
SPEAKER_06Well, good for you, but most people don't.
SPEAKER_02I think that's the secret, you know. So many people just they run and run and run and run. Um and then they get tired, don't they? I just do a little bit of running and have a big rest.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's one thing. That's one of my favourite things to ask a group is what was your last session? And nobody ever says to me it was a rest day.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_06It's always whatever the last.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well I wouldn't say if someone asked me that, I wouldn't say. Yeah, but that's the mindset you need as an athlete.
SPEAKER_06It's thinking about the rest as part of the if I asked somebody who was a representative athlete, you know, top athlete, they might say to me, Oh, I had a rest day. But you know, as amateurs don't think like that, it's just yeah, what even you know, they might say to me, Oh, I did Pilates, but they'll never say oh I laid in bed or you know, did nothing.
SPEAKER_02Drank a gin tea, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So can we ask you about your hunting? I was just gonna say, yeah, we're on the topic.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, uh yeah, well, I think most people know that listen to this, that I'm doing the Lakeland Hundred in um well, I'm travelling up a week on Thursday, uh, and the race starts at six o'clock Friday. What do you want to know? You know more about it.
SPEAKER_03I'm just excited for you because I remember it so well, and it's such a stunning, stunning race.
SPEAKER_06So I haven't read any of the course. I've seen loads of stuff on the Facebook group, you know, loads and loads of um well, no question's a silly question, is it? But loads of questions that seem quite naive to me about it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um, so it seems to me there's lots of people doing it who haven't stepped up to 100 before or had the chance to wreck it. Yeah, it's me. So um, yeah, it's all gonna be because I always you know I've said before about ultra runners ruin their races by wrecking the courses beforehand, so I'm gonna go into this not having a clue really.
SPEAKER_03Do you get given a GPX file now for that map?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, you get a GPX file. Oh boom.
SPEAKER_03It was much more hard when we had to navigate it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, Harvey's map and the um course notes, you know, the route notes, which I think I'll rely on probably more than anything. Um I got a sneaky feeling that you just latch on to people and follow them round. It was interesting. Just choose them wisely.
SPEAKER_00You don't choose Hannah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, pre-discussion, Hannah got out a 2009 magazine that she was in from the Lakeland 100. Wow. And um, but we talked about how few people there would have been running it then compared to running it now.
SPEAKER_03So the courses over a hundred, I think, in its second year.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And I guess I think last year there was over 300, did the hundred. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And of course the 50 courses joins it sells out within the hours of being online, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What the DNF rate is.
SPEAKER_06Um I think it's somewhere about fifty to sixty percent in the hundred. Okay. In the hundred race, yeah. Wow. So it it's six thousand eight hundred, I think, elevation.
SPEAKER_03And it's and it's two nights for most people, isn't it? That's what I'm planning. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Something like that. Start at six thirty, and you have to be in by I think it's ten in the morning Sunday. It's forty hours you get. Um it's a hundred and five miles, not a hundred miles. And six thousand eight hundred some odd metres of elevation. It doesn't go over any of the top, you know, the wane rights or anything, it's all passes, but it's still a lot of elevation.
SPEAKER_03And a tricky, and a tricky one underfoot as well.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. I'm guessing the weather conditions might not be too might be dry-ish actually, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02And how many drop bags do you get?
SPEAKER_06One. Just one? At the 50, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_06Um But that I think it's another one of these, it's got like 14 aid stations. Okay. They're all manned by brilliant people who understand ultra running and are from running clubs, and they have a really good time, I think. And they you know, they're all in fancy dress and all this sort of stuff goes on. So I think it's a bit of a a carnival as well as a a run around. But my pl my worry is because um I'm gonna do the Dragons Bat race again this year, is that it's ever so close to the Dragons Bat race. And I think when I entered, because I entered, it's like one of those tick box I must do the Lakeland 100. It's about I think it's seven.
SPEAKER_02Seven, okay.
SPEAKER_06Is it seven?
SPEAKER_02I thought Shane advertised it as a warm-up to DBR.
SPEAKER_06No, it's it's not his event. Oh, is it not? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I thought it was.
SPEAKER_06A guy called Mark Blazeway, it runs the hundred, yeah. Um the Lakeland 100. Um so what I'm my thinking is with it is to treat it. I mean, it's always, although I wanted to do it, it's a tick-box race, it's always been a B race compared to doing the Dragons Bat race. So my plan is to just go round as slowly as possible, basically, and make all the cutoffs.
SPEAKER_02But that's always your plan. Like when you went into the Lakeling three day oh, the you know the three-day one you did? Yeah. Um, you went into that and you were like, oh, I'm gonna do the cafe course.
SPEAKER_03But he sounded really convincing to look at the eyes, the eyes gave it away.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean it'll be hard not to, I mean, it depends how you go, isn't it, on the day. But what I'm worried about is that I get into well, I was gonna say racing. I mean get into racing for me, um, that I go and blow it for dragons back race because I've done it too hard or taken too much.
SPEAKER_03But you've got m lots of the elevation in the first 25 miles, and it's at night, so actually it's it's wise anyway to have a fairly steady start. Start, yeah. Um, and then hopefully you can pace it from there.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and that's the it's the two-head torch thing, then isn't it? You know, two nights of yeah. Because the other thing I found when I've done something like the longest I've ever run is 31 hours and is it 31 hours, 15 minutes or something at Madeira Island Ultra. Um and that was the two night uh, you know, you end up on the head torch or two nights.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um, and it's just the problem is beforehand is when they start like this starts at six at night, is the the lack of sleep during the day.
SPEAKER_03Do you have a plan to try and sleep at the end?
SPEAKER_06Well, yeah, I do, but yeah, I'm hopeless at sleeping in the day and in the daylight, and then of course you've got all the thought process of everything as well, haven't you? What's going on and the excitement.
SPEAKER_03I remember trying to nap before UTMB.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's not easy, but even just resting, I think, even if you're just in bed, just zoning out, resting.
SPEAKER_06But you are actually awake for you know over 48 hours, aren't you?
SPEAKER_02So I think mentally getting the night one night over and done with immediately, I think that's quite a bit.
SPEAKER_05Yes, that's a good thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I remember arriving for the Laken Hundred the night before. We drove up in my husband's van, stayed at the B. Uh, preparation of being immaculate. I was really excited. He went to ring the doorbell on the d on um at the B and B and I went to open the van door to get our stuff out of the back. Um, some massive tank of something fell out of the van and onto my foot. Oh no. This very nice couple who ran the B and B and we got there about 10 o'clock at night, uh, opened the door to me cursing my head off, jumping up and down. I honestly thought I'd broken my foot. Just before the night before the rains. So yeah, I had to sit with an ice pack on my foot for about two hours before. So don't do that.
SPEAKER_06No, I'll try and avoid that one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you'll have a great time though. Just enjoy it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. And I'm I'm looking forward to the fact that I don't know anything much about it in terms of you know the scenery and what it'll be like, and so yeah, it should be good fun. So that's it, really. I can't think of anything else that oh, on the head torch thing, um, in terms of running hundreds, the um because when you pick a hundred to do, say it's your first one, um one of the thoughts is the uh how long you're out there at night. Yeah. Because you know you you obviously have to run through the night, or most people in the mid-to-back pack do. Um and so it's quite good to think about how long, because my first hundred was the autumn hundred, uh but you end up on the head torch for twelve and a half hours. And if you did a sensible one like you did, you're only on the head torch for six hours. So it's quite yeah, barely that I think it's yeah, yeah. So it's quite important to think that through. I don't think people do necessarily because um you don't tend to do that much head torch running, do you really? Even in training, but it's how long you're out there just on it or at night can make a big difference. But then the the plus side of something like the autumn hundred is it's flatter. Um so you know you've got to balance that out about whether you want to run the elevation or yeah. I'm just thinking about people who want to try their first hundred.
SPEAKER_02On the mandatory kit list, they had a backup light source, and I bought a really tiny, tiny petzel one, which I wish I'd have known it existed, because I would have used that every time I've been to Wale, because although I knew I wasn't running into the night, I wanted a head torch just in case. So I had my main head torch, that was very impressive backup one. But interestingly, although that light, the head torch lasted me perfectly well, I then did endure 24 a week later and didn't even cross my mind to change the batteries. So I have had the experience. So I used the same head torch, and although it looked like it was on, it offered me no light whatsoever. And on what my nighttime, one of my nighttime that's luckily a guy felt sorry for me and and ran with me, and I used the light from his torch. So it that's a really you know, you think you you know, you think you're confident and you've done things before, but yeah, I didn't. It's a mate, yeah, it's worth really thinking about your head torch. Have you really got enough power in it? Um, what what are you gonna do if it runs out? Because now I've seen felt what it's like to run without you know, with a battery that's not full enough. Um, it's yeah, you can't see a thing. So yeah, it's definitely good point.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and uh it's amazing how many people. I mean, I've read articles in the magazines and I was reading one the other day, and that and they said, Oh, a mark, luckily a marshal lent me their head torch because mine failed, you know, and they didn't have a backup. And there was three incidents I know of in the Dragons Bat race where people either broke their head torch or the batteries ran out and they didn't, and you would think goodness, for an event like that, you think people would be sure. But you carry a backup, but they're yeah, not prepared enough, you know. Um you can never be sure. I mean, I had when I did Madeira Island Ultra, I had loads of I had about four spare batteries that plug in that were fully charged, and I was running in a forest in the dark, um, and the cable connector came out, and it was so dark I couldn't see to put the cable back in. I took the head torch off my head and I was it was so it was like being down a coal mine, yeah, and I was fiddling about and I had to wait for the next runner to come along and ask them to shine the head torch so that I could reconnect.
SPEAKER_03And I think also with with the hundreds, particularly the the slow hundreds that are going to take more time or take you through two nights, it's allowing for the brain fog because you can have very well-prepared plans. My first hundred, I planned to change my contact lenses on the second night because I thought they'd probably I'd probably be struggling a bit with them. Um, and I sat at a checkpoint on schedule, changed my contact lenses. Uh the checkpoint was at the top of a mountain, it was about three o'clock in the morning, set off on the checkpoint, really happy that I'd changed my socks, changed my contact lenses. I was like, I'm good to go. Ran off down the mountain and I could not work out while I couldn't see anything. And I thought maybe it was the swirling mist or my head torch was going, and then I realised I'd changed my contact lenses, but I hadn't taken the old ones out, I'd just stuck new ones in because I was just so tired, I was just tired. Yeah. Um, and then I'm on top of a mountain trying to take contact lenses out of my eye, separate them, and get one pair back into my eye, and that could have been the end of my so easily could have been the end of my race. Yeah, because it was a mountain, like it was not safe for me. I'm not, yeah, my eyesight's not that dreadful, but it's certainly not good enough to be running in the dark down a mountain without contact lenses in. So I think yeah, it's easy to plan things, and you should plan things from the safety of your dining room or wherever in preparation, but remembering how how tired he will be and how much that affects your decision making is is worth thinking about.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, you've almost got to be like just every when you're planning it out. Could a two-year-old do it. Yeah, that's it. So it's like that kind of test. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you definitely need to practice running with a head torch because when when I did backyard people were pulling out at night because they'd never run with a head torch. I know that's which I meant given that it started in the evening, I find it astonishing that people have. But I but I guess people just think, oh, I'll have a head torch, I'll be able to see it. Maybe it doesn't seem like a big deal, but for me personally, when I first put my head torch, so I think I'm really confident with a head torch, but always when I first put it on, I have this weird, it's almost like a magic eye thing, like the grass is all swirly and weird, uh, and it doesn't last very long, but if you've never experienced that before, it's gonna be really disorientating.
SPEAKER_06Um there's all sorts of things that happen, you're running along and it rains with a head torch on, and you get this or it's mist. Or I've run an amazing amount of moths. Yes. I was running off Caesar's camp one night, and I'd have never run through so many moths. I didn't know there were so many tiny. Yeah, in front of your head torch, yeah. So it's all sorts of stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and getting used to like your the tor the light from your torch picking up animals' eyes because that can freak people out. Um yeah, so it's really scary. Yeah, that mustn't be overlooked. I think the head head torch part is really important.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Right, I think we've covered everything. Well, good luck, Kev. And thank you very much, Hannah, and thank you very much, Lizzie.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thanks for having us.