Ep 48 - An Interview With Mark Buckle - 3/4 through the Centurion 50 Grand Slam

This episode is an interview..well ultra running chat with Hart Road Runner club mate of Kev’s Mark Buckle. Mark has been racing Ultras for the past five years and tells his progression and aims. He also eventually tells us his ‘driver’ that got him into this form of our sport. Wait for the end of the interview!

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Transcript

Section A

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Hi again, welcome to episode 48 of AidStation. This is the second podcast to come out in a week. Amazing. And this has happened because there are so many ultrarunners in our running club, Heart Road Runners. And this interview is with Mark Buckle, who's been a member of the club a couple of years, and has been ultra running now for about five years, and you'll hear all about how he got into it, uh why he does it, and what he's up to and what his future is in this interview. So I won't waste any more of your time. Here is Mark Buckle. Hi Mark. Hi, Kev. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing good, thanks. How are you? Yeah, alright, great, thanks. Um so how's it been since you just recently finished yet another fifty?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

I did, yes. Uh I've just done the Children Wonderland 50 mile, starting and finishing in Goring. So it's uh a really nice route. If you haven't done it before, I'd highly recommend it. It uh from what I've been told, I can't confirm this, but we went past the windmill for Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and the Vickery Dibley Church.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

All of the sights. Yeah. Uh because that's a centurion event, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:55

It is, yeah. Yeah, it's part of the uh the 50 slam that I'm doing this year. Yeah. So I've done three of them. I've got one more to go, uh, which is November. And what are the what are the four to the So there's South Downs Way 50, uh, North Downs Way 50, um, Children Wonderland 50 and Wendover Woods 50.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

And when when's Wendover? November this year. Oh right, okay. I've done it uh a couple of years ago in the summer. Uh it was a lovely day. The the sun was up until late, uh, but it's a brutal course. Like if you look at the elevation, it looks like someone's having a heart attack. It's just up and down like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

And is it on a loop that one?

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Yeah, it's uh ten mile loop. Uh do five times so you know exactly what's coming. And yeah, you you don't look forward to any of it really.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah. And the one you've just done, the Chiltern no which you were saying that that course is part linked to parts of other the centurion courses, which I was interested in.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

So it links together um leg two of Autumn 100, um, part of the Ridgeway, which is another uh race I've done this year, uh, and it links together Hundred Hills as well. So you're going through all the different routes that you've done before. So uh Field of Dreams, I'm sure you've been through before. So I went through that again, uh but it's all been harvested this time. Right. Um and the um starting point and turnaround point for um the Hundred Hills, the big house, big field, you go through that, but you do it in reverse. So instead of coming down to the tent, you you go up.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Stoner house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it starts in Goring. It starts and finishes in Goring. Fantastic, love that place. So do I. Yeah. Good, that sounds really good. So how did you get on?

SPEAKER_03 3:47

It was really good. Um I've recovered pretty well from it. Um we're it's Wednesday now, so we're four days from it. Yeah. Um and yeah, I've been out running again. Um, as I did nine miles today. Um, but yeah, I just took this on easy because I wasn't really feeling it when I started. Right. Um, just as hadn't felt well for a few days beforehand, uh, couldn't really keep anything down. Um, and yeah, just thought I'd take it easy. Right. Um but yeah, it it gave me the opportunity to test a few things. Um one of the things that I've been really struggling with is nutrition and hydration.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Uh so I've historically relied on um the like electrolyte drinks, um, and I completely cut them all out and just ran on water, and I ate a lot more real food on this one, which made a big difference. And you found that big massive difference. Yeah, so with the electrolyte and sugar drinks, um like Tailwind, yeah, I was finding I'd get a real sugar kick from it, but then I'd crash and I'd always be chasing that sugar high again. Okay. Um but yeah, did you stay on them for a little while and then introduce the solids or was it I just went water straight into throws every aid station and I was like I think the third aid station I got in about one o'clock around lunchtime, and I sat down and made myself a proper lunch there, so sandwiches, like sausage rolls, like crisps, like the the full works. Right. It was good, it was nice.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah, it makes it a much more enjoyable event when you don't have all these gastric issues going along with it.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

And that was kind of my concern, and that was why I was keeping the food going in because of the illness a few days before. Right. Okay. Yeah, I I also uh went along and was just chatting to so many people. Um there were people from Holland that had flown over specifically to run that event. Really? Um yeah, a couple of 24-year-olds just thought they'd do it one weekend. Fair play to them. Yeah. Um I've met a few people through the uh centurion running community that are doing that's doing a slam as well. So I bumped into them and spent about 10 miles or so with one of them as well. Um and yeah. It's really good. Really good reading.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

So, what made you um decide to do the slam? Because there's a 50 slam and a hundred slam, isn't there? There is lots of people have done them over the years. I just wonder what made you go for a four by fifty.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

So this year, like last year I had a bit of a car crash with my races. Um and this year I just wanted to get into being consistent. Right. Uh so the way they spread it out of one race every two months or so, yeah. Um I felt would really help me with my training, make me um taper properly, recover properly, then train in between each um in in between each race. Okay. And um yeah, I just thought it was a good way to stay consistent.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

And uh how have you found it? Because when's the first the first one's South Downs, is it? Yes. So that's June.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yes, it is June.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

So it's quite a late season because you're not fin you're finishing in November, aren't you? Yeah. So how do you find the spacing in between in terms of training? Um obviously you come down off an event, yeah, recover. What's that look like? How long's a recovery?

SPEAKER_03 7:15

So my recovery it should be two or three weeks, but I normally cut it short because I'm a bit impatient. Yeah, okay. And like out of it again, with the I have a three-week taper. Right. Uh, and then if I were to have a three-week recovery, uh that's that's a long time. Yeah. Uh so I just play it by how my body feels for the recovery. Okay. Um and so then you're ramping up, say after two weeks, you're then I'm back to so I try and keep my weekly mileage around 50 miles a week.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Um, so um by week two, end of week two, I'd be going into another 50 mile week and staying consistent. Okay. Um I have been chucking other races in as well. So um I did the North Downs way, and then the day after flew out to Cyprus, found on the IT ITRA site that there was a the Cypriot Sky Running Championship going on when I was there. Oh, okay, yeah. So uh sign up to that on my holiday, run a mountain marathon.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

And that's Trudos.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

That was Trudos, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

I've got a friend that lives out there and he rides up there regularly. Yeah. So it's stunning up there. It was some of the nicest running I've had um around there because it's all ski splates during the winter. Uh but obviously during the summer it's mountain trails, it's a lot of switchbacks and yeah, beautiful scenery.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Lovely event. So we sidetracked a bit there. So you get up to 50 miles, you do that for what, four-week, five-week block. How much is it before you come down for your top?

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Depends how far it is into away from this run. So um, because I've had other races thrown in as well, so it's not just a slam that I'm doing this year. I did uh race to the stones 100k. Um I've also thrown in uh the Great South Run, which is just 10 miles. Right. Uh I did Y 10K as just a bit of a training run as well. Um, and then the True DOS Terror as well. So depending on what I've got coming up next, I'll taper and recover most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

So your 50 mile week, what's that look like? What's involved?

SPEAKER_03 9:18

So a typical 50 mile week for me is normally three runs in the week. So Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Um, and that'll be Tuesday, uh usually some kind of speed work. So that's why I do the Tuesday club sessions, because it's usually running up and down. Uh I'd try and get a hill session in there maybe on the Thursday. Uh, Wednesdays is normally my recovery day, which is when I normally have a social run at lunchtime.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

Um and then I'd pile on a 20-mile-long run on the weekend. Yeah. Uh if I need to do any top-up, I'll do it on the Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Okay. That's pretty much it. Pretty much what it looks like.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Yeah, I I try and keep it as simple as possible. I see all different training plans out there doing just yeah, all weird and wonderful things, but consistency has been such a key thing for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah, because if we can because I know a little bit about the background. Last year you did Autumn Hundred.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

And you were going really well because I was out there, I saw you. Yeah. Um, but you had a bad spell towards the end, was it?

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Or so the first time you saw me uh was when I was just coming off leg one, and so about mile twenty-five or so and I'd already in already injured myself by that point. Oh, okay. So along the Thames path, or along that side of the Thames anyway, it was really muddy and really slippy. And I was happily plodding along. And unfortunately, when I went to step, my left leg shot out sideways, um, and it did a minor tear on my adapter muscle. Right. Um, and I just handled it as much as I could, but the further I went, the worse it got. I got to 91 miles and and I literally could not move my leg like any further forward. Okay. Um, so yeah, that was a bit.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

I didn't realise that. I thought it was more to do with um gastric issues again or not fuelling.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

But yeah, my my fueling was pretty bad on that one as well, I'll be honest. It was mainly chocolate bars. Um yeah, that's one of the reasons I focused on fuelling this year. Right is to sort that out. But now I'd uh I'd turn up a little muscle and every step I was taking it was getting a bit worse. Um yeah. I'll be back to do it. Yeah, maybe next maybe next year.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

So you've still got to crack a hundred miler, haven't you?

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

So I've had two attempts at a hundred miler. Right. My first one I went to do it so naive. It was my first ultra distance run, uh, and it was and it was during lockdown, uh, and it was a backyard style run from my house round Ansel's Farm. Oh, I see. It was itself. It was yeah, so it was when we were only allowed to stay in our county. Yeah. Uh and I'd previously signed up to what should have been my first Ultra, which was uh 50k over in Henley, uh, but that got cancelled because of COVID. Um, so I stupidly thought, oh, I reckon I could do a hundred miles in 24 hours. So full week of work Friday night, about I think it was seven o'clock in the evening, set off, thinking that would be a good time to do it. Um, my fueling consisted of a lot of Coca-Cola and jam tarts. Um God. Um and my pacing strategy was oh, if I do this quickly, I can have more of a rest at home. Classic.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

So I was doing this over with quickly.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

I was doing like 28-minute uh yards basically, so it was like as fast as possible. So I did 81 miles then.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Um and then that's pretty awesome for the first time too.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

It was it was good going, yeah. Pretty chapter round. But the way I see it, if I did 81 miles first time, 91 miles second time, so 101 miles is the third attempt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, if you do the autumn hundred, it's only about ninety-eight. So it'll be well in. Oh, brilliant. Well, let's go back a bit then, because you said your first well, Ultra was self um what do you call it? Prepared one for what when was that 2020 or something?

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Uh that must have been yeah, 2020, 2021, something like that. Yeah, it was 2020 actually.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Uh what made you want to get into Ultra then at that point?

SPEAKER_03 13:37

So um I started running uh when I was must have been 21, 22 years old, and that was road running. And I the way I see it is with any running, there's two ambitions, either go faster or go further. And I'd been working at the go faster and I'd been trying to crack the three hour marathon. Right. And time and time again got close, failed, got frustrated, felt like I was wasting my time. Uh so I changed direction, I was like, oh, let's go further then. Um I've always loved to enjoy like running around countryside. Yeah um so kind of went trail running, ultra running. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

So that was um so you said 21 you started running, you were 21 years old. Yeah. How old were you when you did your ultra? Uh 2020. Oh that's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

How old are I now? Five years ago. I think I'm 37 now, so I must have been 32.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Oh, so you had about 10 years or so on the road. I did, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, right. And did you run a tool at school or is it?

SPEAKER_03 14:44

I did, but that was mainly to get out of lessons, to be honest. Right. So I did cross country uh because I got out of lessons. Um and then when it came to uh sports day, I'd sign up to the hundred metres, the class relay, and the 1k because I knew they spaced across the the full day.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Oh see, you could take the whole day.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Yeah, so yeah, I'll I mean I was a good runner when I was a kid. Um I wouldn't say I was a great runner. Um I did run for the school one year, uh, but that I was the one of the youngest in my year, so it didn't go too well because all the kids were much bigger than me. Um but yeah, no. Yeah. It was really in my adulthood that I got into running. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

So in 2020, were you a member of Heart Road Runners then?

SPEAKER_03 15:31

Or no, so I joined uh Heart Road Runners when it opened back up in 21, it must have been. Right, yeah. Um and I had considered joining beforehand because I'd met um a few of the Heart Roadrunners through Parkrun when the Edenbrook one started up. Um and they kept pestering me to go along. I was like, I'll go along just to appease them and you know keep them happy. Uh but yeah, no, it's a it's a great club to be part of. Um and I keep going back more so for the community as opposed to the the sessions because yeah, yeah, it's just nice running with people.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah. Excellent. So what's the well besides getting that 50 done and getting the slam, which would be good, what what's the next thing for you?

SPEAKER_03 16:19

So I've got three races booked next year already. Oh well. Um I'm I'm splitting them up a bit better, so I'm giving myself that two months between each one. So I've got February, um I think it's called Hyberian Hills, 50 mile, I think it is. Um that's over, uh, starts and finishes at uh the is on the South Downs way, um near Goodwood Race Course. Okay. Um then I've got uh the serpent trail, I think it's called. Oh yeah, serpent. Uh Ultra X have managed to extend it by like 10k, so you can now do 110k of it of over a hundred K route. Um so I'm doing that. And then I've got the Endure 24 as a solo runner and whenever that is.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

So that'll be the hundred mile.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Yeah, that's that's my target. Um and I understand there's a few of our club runners that are going to be there, so hopefully they can give me like you know, motivation to throw jam sandwiches at me as I run past or something.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Yeah. Oh, that's great that you've got it all mapped out.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Yeah, I do like a bit of a plan because you know, it gives me something to work towards. If I don't have something to work towards, then training kind of goes out the window to an extent. Yeah. Um, but later in the year I haven't quite decided what I want to do. So there's autumn 100. I'd really like to return and do that. Um, but I'm also quite tempted with uh doing Valencia marathon and just returning to see what I can do for a road marathon. Yeah, so the reason behind that is uh more so because technology has moved on so much. Like when I was doing marathon running or road running way back then, carbon shoes weren't a thing, nutrition was a Lucas A bottlins from jelly babies. Right. Um and I feel like I'm a a stronger runner, not a f necessarily a faster runner, but uh stronger, um yeah, more consistent runner.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, and and mentally 26.2 wouldn't seem the same. Whereas before it would have been like it's a warm-up now, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, yeah. So it makes a big difference, I think, mentally.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah. Yeah. We'll see, we'll see how Endure 24 goes and then book something after that.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Alright, okay, great. And in terms of um like bigger picture, longer running career, if I can call it career, um do you have any like bucket list races or things you'd really want to do?

SPEAKER_03 18:46

I do. And I I know you don't like it, but I'm gonna say You're gonna mention the UTMB. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to do it. Um I know there's the whole thing about the carbon footprint and uh uh dragging everybody across the world to various different places, not just that one event, but the way they do the stones and the points and stuff, it it is it's a pyramid scheme, isn't it? Basically. Um but at the same time I'd love to go and run in those mountains.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah, fully understand. I mean, uh I had the same, you know, when you get into Ultra and it's like there it is, the ultimate, you know, I guess like doing London or New York marathon or something. Um but yeah, and I mean I wouldn't knock care. I remember um because James Elson of Centurion also has the same views. Um and he's always said, you know, I wouldn't ever like fully understand that somebody wants to do the event and you know, why not their ambitions to do it? I'm not saying that. But I mean we're all got our own views on what we're prepared to support and put our money into, so that's up to them.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Yeah. I think there's a few stepping stones between where I am now and UTMV though. Um I was listening to one of your Well, there's literally stones. Or do Cornwall, which I'm I'm thinking of doing both, just get more stones. Yeah. Um but I was listening to one of your podcasts the other day. So I've started from the beginning with your podcasts again. Oh going through the whole way through. Good luck. If you listen to them in quick succession, it creates a really like a really good um image of what your personality is, and I feel like I get to know you through your podcasts a lot better. Um but yeah, there was one of them where you did Lakeland 100, I think it was, um, and you compared that to a UK UTMB. Um I think that's on the bucket list as one of the stepping.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Well, that was the original UK 100 based on uh what UTMB had achieved. I know I know um James with Centurion had done that similar uh with with his hundred, but um obviously the Lakeland has a totally different uh elevation profile. Um and I think I mean as an event it it's the nearest to atmosphere. I mean it's not going to get anywhere near UTMB, but it's definitely uh a big race. Um I've actually got in next year myself, so I'm really pleased to get back because uh as you know from the podcast, that's unfinished business. But yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one to do. Yeah, but I hope you get into UTMB because I'd like to.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

It's like uh an ambition for me to be able to qualify for it by the time I'm forty. So I've I've got three years till I get there. Okay. Um and I know it's now a lottery, which is why I'm saying to qualify for it as opposed to to get into it and do it. Um but sometime in my forties would be nice.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Right. Okay. And have you done much? I know you said you I think you'd done um did you do Snowdonia? Did you know? I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

Ultra Travers. Snowdenia hundred K. Is that your only mountain stuff? Yeah. Do you remember quite how that went for me? No, two DNF'd uh part way three. That was my well, my first DNF of the year last year. I only had two DNFs. Um but it was such a hot day, I was massively underprepared for it. Uh and they ran out of water at two of the aid stations, um, even though one aid station was next to a water reservoir. Don't know how that works. Um, but yeah, so I went without water for six hours. Um got to the halfway point in I think it was about 12, 13 hours, um, and was absolutely destroyed. Like I couldn't go on. Um but yeah, now I'll return and I'll get some more mountains. Let's hope they've got that issue sorted out. I'll be more prepared. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I see yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Yeah, just take some water filters and yeah, drink from the streams. Alright. And was that the hundred, the full hundred K. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

There's a guy that uh did the hundred miles in barefoot. I don't know if you saw that. No. Yeah, yeah, absolutely crazy. He was he started off like he had his shoes on his back just in case he needed to put them on, but he did the whole hundred miles across the the slate and everything and the bogs, barefoot. Insane.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

So where does that route go? Is that does that go over the um Snowden Massive, as it were?

SPEAKER_03 23:26

It does, yeah. So I don't know the mountain names too well. Right. Because you know I've only been there once. Uh but it starts and finishes in Lamberis at the Slate Museum. Uh you go up um well most of the way up Snowden, and then you go down, I think it's called the Pig Trail on the way down. Yeah. Pig Track. Pig Track, that's one. Um and yeah, then you do other ones which I don't know the names of. Some more three thousands, I expect. Yeah, yeah. Uh you do do Snowden on the way back as well. I think that's your last climb and descent. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

So you run down off the top into Lambertus. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Maybe you should sign up one year. Yeah, but it's it's UTMB market. I'm not allowed. I have to admit, today I was having a look because I was going through the ITRA um looking at all the members of our club that are now ultra runners actually, and looking at their rankings. There's a few of them. There's a few now. It's getting good. Um, but uh yeah, I then thought, oh, I'll have a look at what the UTMB, because I mean basically I think they're the same thing, aren't they? The ranking system. Um so I did go on their site and have a look at my ranking, which had you know nothing and red crosses against being allowed to enter anything, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Because it's um you have to get the stones and things. Uh but yeah, it's always it nags away in the background. But I I I then counted all the events and there's sixty uh in the world now. Right. UTMB, qualifying events, which I suppose might cut down on the travel a bit having them everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

But it's interesting you say that, you're not doing any UTMB events, but uh from memory, haven't you done Archivatrician?

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah, but it wasn't UTMB then. I was in Art B I I mean I shouldn't say this, but let's just say it got sold for UPM UTMB. Yes. Um which I was gutted because I I didn't get round I I only got to Land's End, which is fifty-five miles in of the hundred.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Um missed out by twelve minutes and I was had intended to go back because I don't like unfinished business. Um but uh not to be now. Yeah, and I've heard some uh fairly uh not good stories about it of the I don't know, is it is it two they've done now, UTMB? I can't remember.

unknown 25:50

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Anyway. Yeah, but ARK's also really, really good course. Great, great one to do. Um I'm sure it's lovely in like the first week of January, isn't it? It's yeah, um well amazingly it's been really good weather the last three or four, but they've uh added new events as well, so I think there's uh 50k in there.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

They've you know how UT and B have all of their distances, so they've they've added to Too many people on the trail, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Too many people in the aid stations. Anyway, it won't keep knocking TMP all the time. So um within the club, do you have people that you go out with that are that are um on social runs or on training? No, more more people who are ultrarunners. Is there a something that you look to do or you're not fast and you go out?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Do you know what I it would be nice to have more ultra runners to run with, but because I feel ultrarunning is such a you can differ so like vastly between how well you can climb hills and mountains, whatever, how fast you're on the the flats, how fast you can go downhill, that having an ultra running buddy would in my the way I feel would be it'd be quite hard to train properly with them because one of you is probably gonna hold back the other one in some way. Yeah. Um but I don't really mind uh being solo running by myself, it's headspace, nice piece, uh gets away from everything. Yeah. Um I do run with some of the club members during the week, so like on Tuesday sessions, there's some of the faster runners there, like Andy LaRue I run with. Um and I push each other quite well. Um Matt Harper gets involved with that as well. Yeah. Um and then Wednesdays I normally run with Matt and Oz and uh just social round feature.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, there's a different yeah, I mean obviously Tuesdays is all speed work or hill work and it's yeah, different session altogether, isn't it? But you don't get out on any like longer stuff than twenty off-road with somebody then?

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Um no, not really. I mean I'd like to if I had the opportunity, but yeah, it just doesn't it doesn't work especially with like family life. Sometimes I'd be heading out at half seven on a Saturday morning, or I could be like half two on a Saturday afternoon, or do it on a Sunday. It's just being able to find a three or four hour block of time to match up with somebody else's three or four hour block of time is could be a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

And you did actually just coming into my head, you did um a W D A uh Ah the long distance walkers are so long distance, yeah, W. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

That was my one and only win, that was. Yeah. Um but yeah, that was a I don't know if it's class of winning when you're racing some walkers, but I would take it. Yeah. Uh that was the Punch Bowl 30, um, which it's again there's a lovely route. Um it goes up obviously around the Punch Bowl near Hinehead, um back down again. Um and that was in I want to say February time. It was really cold, it had been really wet. Um, it was hilarious conditions like going through hundreds hundreds of metres worth of water just up to your knees kind of stuff. But there wasn't much running to some of it. But that was that was good fun. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah, it's a good route that is uh up round there. Yeah. I train I do go training on my longer runs up there sometimes, it's really nice. Yeah. I see you run over for coffee sometimes. Yeah. Well, there's the National Trust Cafe in there, so that's after 18 miles from here, so run out there and then coffee, a cup of coffee, and run over. Yeah, yeah. My aid station out there. Yeah. So um in in terms of I mean how much of ultrarunning is is part of Mark's life? What's the Do you know?

SPEAKER_03 29:51

So I was thinking about this yesterday of uh I feel running has changed my life. Like I owe a lot of who I am to running, and ultrarunning has enhanced that as well. So the stuff I've learned from ultra running as opposed to road running, uh things like um patience, um not um not trying to cut corners, like follow the process. That's something I specifically learned last year in DNFing twice. Um and um endurance, um, like mental endurance, physical endurance, because road running, it's whenever somebody says, Oh, I've done a marathon, the instant response is what time did you do? It's always driven on the times you've got, um, a specific ambition. If it's not going right, you see a lot of runners stepping off the side. Uh, but with ultrarunning, it's how you manage those problems. Um, like with South Downs Way this year, uh, that was when I discovered I had an Ingroan toenail, and that was absolute agony. Um, but I got it done uh and managed the problem. Um, but yeah, so the the stuff I've learned from Ultrarunning um and how it's developed my personality also helps with other aspects of my life, um, whether it's like parenting, being more patient with my with my son, or stuff at work. Um I have a reputation at work of just being extremely resilient and just getting stuff done when other people can't, which you know I I put that to what I've learned from ultra running as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah, yeah, it definitely gives you uh inner strength, doesn't it, when you're in those situations. Yeah. Um from and and a feeling like, yeah, I I've done this, I can do this more than than you can, as it were. Exactly right, yeah. Without being overly competitive. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. And and do you love the nature side of it?

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Getting in getting out in the countryside and that's the main reason I got into ultra running, I feel, is um whenever I was training for road running or road races, I'd always love going onto the trails, uh, even if it was like the canal path, which is completely flat for 30 miles, yeah. Um or going up into Caesars Camp. I used to well, I still love going up in there. Um and nature is a massive part of it for me. Um my wife does get irritated by it sometimes when we're driving along. It's like, oh look at those trees, they're nice trees. There's like a there's an appreciation for nature that you develop, I think, as you spend more time out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

And are you a runner without headphones or earbuds or whatever they call them? Because you don't use them.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

I uh I have the bun conducting ones. Um mainly just listen to music. Um I do have uh a playlist on my watch at the moment of just your podcasts. Um we spoke uh a few weeks ago as well about uh different podcasts to listen to. Yeah. Uh so I've got a few on my watch just uh to go through as well. Um I think there was Coopcast was the one you recommended. Oh yeah, yeah, that if you want real technical training stuff, yeah, definitely Coopcast is the last one of those I listened to, they went into great detail on the goo gels and the lady that was developing them and used them to go into um mountain races and uh it was very technical, but it was really fascinating. Yeah, it was yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

They're I mean obviously you have to take out of them what what's good for you, but yeah, if yeah, you want more technical stuff, it's very good. And the the um that whole nutrition thing, because I mean I find and well, particularly me, but I find with other um runners that there's a lot now going on about you know the 90 grams of carbs an hour or some people are pushing it up to 120, and and it it's all coming from performance. Well, I mean we could say we're all performance athletes, but the the sharp end are obviously driving that type of input, particularly from marathon running. And I think that uh gets too much into what I would call the real amateur athlete type of ultra running, yeah. Where you know you're out there far longer than the uh the elites are anyway, yeah. Um and you do need to get, as you've now found out, some proper solid food in and make it a much more enjoyable experience.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

If you're not running along with a full belly, you're doing something wrong, and that's what I've learned. But with the what you're saying about the getting 90 grams of carbs, 120 grams of carbs, um a lot of that they from road racing they say use the gels, use your electrolyte and sports drinks and stuff like that. Yeah, but those things after like nine hours or so, you can't you can't be shoving one of them in every 20 minutes. Like you uh it'll be a mess.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Well, there will be you know outliers that do that can do it, you know. You yeah if they've trained their slower very well. But um yeah, not at our level. And I and I yeah, I'm a great advocate of people getting onto solid foods. Um and and away from sweet stuff as well. Savory more savory foods.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

That was something that I found from one of my previous races uh this year. I think it was uh race to the stones, uh 100k, and I tried to get as much fluid in me because it was such a hot day, but then I was also taking um the tailwind. So whenever I was going to an A station, I was maybe drinking a litre or a litre and a half of tailwind over 14 hours, and the the sweetness in my mouth was so sharp it like I couldn't taste anything, and I was just really, really craving something that was well, I ended up going and eating a Subway uh like a Subway sandwich, yeah, and I filled it up with like gherkins and jalapeno peppers and stuff just to cut through that that sweetness.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

The sweetness, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People that do it, I don't get it. I was quite interested in the um there was a guy, you know, Hannah did the 24-hour track race last weekend, and uh there was a guy going around there who was the leader of the race. Um, and I saw him clean his teeth twice, and he was clearly on the jail thing, which is a good thing to do anyway, to freshen you up. It's something that I've done in longer ultras, but it was quite interesting to see him cleaning his teeth after about six hours.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

I think there's partly a mental aspect to that as well, I feel, um, and it's keeping routine to your body. Uh so I like what I did on uh my most recent race of stopping to have lunch around lunchtime, of having su the consistency and the routine to your body is like, oh, it's bedtime, I need to brush my teeth, or it's the morning brush my teeth. Just trying to keep your body as happy as possible, really, because the more you impact your body in a negative way with even little things like that, I think those can make a big difference. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, clear.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

I mean, yeah, clearly, because the longer you go on and the the more you're awake, the more your body wants to go to sleep. So all the things you can do to convince it that you're doing pretty normal stuff while running, yeah, the better.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

I didn't actually struggle with the sleep when I did Autumn 100s. That was one thing I was really surprised with of I was wide awake throughout the whole night. There were people I saw falling asleep in aid stations or on a park bench kind of thing. Yeah. And I was going along pretty happy using my Snickers chocolate bars and drinking chocolate milk.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah, I think a lot of that comes to um the type maybe the types of jobs or the types of people or or the people have done stuff where they've been up all night before anyway. You know, you get a lot of shift workers who are really good at um ultra running because it's part of their routine and or their you know normal circadian rhythm to uh different uh because of it. And I think that helps a lot. But the first I found now that the first twenty-four hours is it's just a given. It's just yeah, gonna run for well, and then beyond that, because it's daylight if the race starts at the right sort of time. Yeah. It's that second night that the real sleep deprivation kicks in.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

I haven't got there yet.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

No, no, no, that's a long way off. Then there's no rush to get there, right? You don't need to rush to get there. But it's becoming more and more, isn't it, the 200 milers.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Really starting to see a lot of them now.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

But well, uh if you're looking for them, yes, that's probably true.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

They didn't used to be out there.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

No.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Um you know, there were one or two crazy ones like Thames Ring or um that have been around a while.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

But or the winter spine.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Um yeah, I won't get into that. Oh yeah, people are asking me, oh have you started trading yet? No. No. The wallet's been taking a beating that that's as far as it's gone so far. Yeah, cool. So do you would you is that an ambition, do you think? One day will you The winter's fine. Well, or any any major you know, Tour de Giron?

SPEAKER_03 39:05

I'd have to convince the wife that's a good idea. Um so she's banned me from doing anything more than a hundred miles. Um is that out of concern or family life or a bit of both? Concern. Yeah. Um but yeah, she she'll sit there and she'll watch her phone, and she can't really do that for two nights, can she?

SPEAKER_02 39:33

It's not fair on her. No.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Um and also because we've got a young son, I guess, yeah, yeah, to be around, yeah, help out as much as I can after running that far.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Um how do you balance that? Because I always think because I never had that because I didn't yeah, my children were grown before I got into this. But the the thought of waking up you know the first morning after a 24-hour ultra or whatever that he's he's pretty understanding, our son.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Um and the way we have our family life it's i it helps towards it. So I'm I've worked from home for the last eight years, it must be. Um and my wife since um our son Marshall was born, she's not gone back to a full-time office job. Um, so she's started up a small business, she teaches dance from home as well. Um so we've got quite a good uh work-life balance there. Uh, and it allows for when I want to have a day out on usually a Saturday to go and have a race, um, there's the flexibility built into our lives to for me to be able to do that. That's right. Very lucky.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

And is Marshall um getting exposed to running?

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Is he seeing his dad do it? Do you know what? He's gonna be a quick runner. Oh, really? So um he does the junior park runs most Sundays with me. Um he's done a couple of the adult 5k park runs as well. Right. Um what age is he? Five. He's six. His birthday tomorrow, so he's six tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Oh, happy birthday, Marshall. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Yeah, so his 5k time is 34 minutes, um, which is around the same time as as Helen's time. So Wow. Yeah, he's that's impressive. He's a good runner. Um we've also um behind my house where I live, we've got they've painted uh running track on the grass. It's a hundred meter running track. Uh so we've had a few races up and down there, and he's he's doing like sub six minute mile pace. Um and his his legs are well, I don't know, like a foot long or something. It's insane how quick he is for his size. Oh, that's brilliant. Yeah, he loves it. And he loves it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's good. Yeah. Both both Helen and I run. We're like it's it was our first date going on a run. Um lot to running, is met my wife through it. Um but yeah, he's he sees us going out running and just wants to get involved. Oh fantastic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Oh well, one day he's got a long way to go, but he'd be beating Dad over the mouth. If he cracks three hours before you do, you'd be like, Oh, that'd that'll be embarrassing, wouldn't it? Oh, brilliant. Oh well, thanks very much, Mark, for coming in. That's all nice finger changing. And yeah, and best of luck with your I'm looking forward to seeing you with the all four of your slam houses. Is it buckles you get?

SPEAKER_03 42:31

No, so because it's fifty, it's the the big medal. Oh, you get the big round medal, is it? You get uh yeah, it's a big round medal you get um when you finish, you get one the size of a dinner plate. Um so yeah, I'm sure I'll be able to find a good way of distinguished. So you get four and the dinner plate. Yes, yeah, yeah. So along my wall, uh behind my desk at my home office, I've got all the my medals that I'm proud of, uh, and then a box under my desk of ones that maybe haven't made the cuts. Yeah. But the wall is just filling up with centurion now.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Yeah. Yeah, that tends to happen, I guess. Uh one thing I meant to ask you about that is did you have um a plan in terms of times for each 50? Or was it just a case of getting them done and getting the slam done?

SPEAKER_03 43:15

It's um just getting it done really. Yeah. Um so I found out there is uh a slam competition, you can see where you are. I haven't looked yet. Oh right. Um, but the way I was looking at it was I didn't want to roll the dice on any of them because if I mess up on one, I mess up on all four. That's right. Um so I am intentionally taking them a bit easier. Um get it done.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah. And did you sign up right at the start? Like paid your money up and went in for the four, or is that how it works?

SPEAKER_03 43:45

Yeah, so you can sign up individually if you want to, or if you sign up uh all four, I think you get a bit of a discount. So I signed up last year after uh DNF on uh UTF. Right. And I was like, right, I'm gonna sign myself up to something, sort of cheer me up a bit, and have something to aim for for next year.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Um, yeah, so I think that's a great idea to get the consistency in and do a lot more fifties to crank that hundred. I think that that's a really good idea and a good way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Every time you do a 50, it makes it a little bit easier, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

You get more used to it. Yeah, and you learn more about yourself and how to cope with it. Yeah, it's been a good year so far. Yeah, good. And and again, longer term out, you've got to do 100. But do you think you'll do the hundred slam sometime?

SPEAKER_03 44:37

It's yeah, I'd like to. So I think when I break a hundred uh and I get more comfortable at it, I'm not going to go and do centurion hundreds until I go and do the slam. Um obviously autumn one hundred is the exception there because I've got unfinished business.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Um, but I'll be looking for other hundreds around the UK to do, and then when I feel I'm ready, yeah, take that on.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah, yeah, because that's quite a quite a commitment body, well, on everything, but body-wise. They're quite nicely spaced though, and the James has sort of got them in what's it about eight weeks apart?

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Yes, eight, nine weeks apart, it's it's it's pretty good. Yeah. Gives you enough time to recover and build back up again. Um, I'm gonna have to increase my weekly mileage to build up to that. So I was saying earlier, my weekly mileage at the moment I'm just consistently sticking at 50. Yeah. Um, probably have to push up to 60, 70 mile weeks. Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Um, just to you might be surprised by the time you get to the point of wanting to do a hundred grand slam, the back catalogue, if I could call it that, or miles in the bank, yeah, you'd be amazed what yeah. I mean, it depends. If you're going in it to do times, then that's a different thing altogether to what you need when you're an ultra runner, what you really need to do for training is I'd love to do double 24 for every one of them.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

I mean that that would be the dream, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Um I would think that'd be yeah. I'm not saying you couldn't you couldn't do it. That's quite an ask, isn't it? Because yeah, the North Daniels is the hilliest one, isn't it? It's the slower one than it's normally in August. Yes. When it's boiling hot.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

And I've heard the second half of that is much tougher than the first half. Um I mean I've only done the first half twice, so like the first 50 of the hundred. Yeah. Um but the first twenty-five of that, I always see that as perfectly runnable. It's a lovely route.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Um but yeah, you get between Farnham and Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Farnum to Guildfield to get to Box Hill and then things go a little bit vertical, um, and they just get tougher. Um but yeah. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Yeah, well, best of luck with it. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming. Obviously, I see loads of you around the club. Yeah. One day we might even get in an e we haven't done an event together yet, have we?

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Hundred Hills we did together. Oh, we didn't I mean we didn't intentionally do it together. Yeah, no. I just turned up and saw you standing in front of me. Well morning, Kev.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah, it's good to I mean, uh you'd be much quicker than me, but it's always nice to be on an event with somebody else that is, yeah. You know, and more and more of the heart road runners are gonna be turning up at the same events, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

If you speak to some of the um older generation heart runners, if I can put it that way, there's there's some people there that have been older runners in their their youth as well. Yeah. Um yeah, there's some interesting stories to come out of them as well. I've I've got great. Yeah. Thank you, Mark.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Cool, thank you. Goodbye now. Well, there's a bit of a bonus to this um episode because uh Mark and I were just chatting online offline, um, and uh the trigger for him at the age of twenty one to get into running has just come out. Do you want to expand, Mark?

SPEAKER_03 48:03

Yeah, so um uh when I was twenty one I'd just moved back to my parents' house after a bad breakup uh and a childhood friend messaged me to say, Oh, do you want to go for a run? I was like, Yeah, why not? You know, run around the block, burn off some steam. Um, and we did that a few times. Um, but I also had a motorbike when I was 21 and crashed down to the side of a car. Uh so woke up in hospital one morning trying to get after trying to get to work, um, and I was paralyzed from basically the waist down, couldn't move my my legs, was told that I may never walk again. Um and my friend who was she came in to visit me every day, uh a girl called Nikki. Um I said to her, Look, I don't think I'm gonna be able to run with you, kind of a bit of a trying to make light of the situation. And she said, No, no, we're gonna do a race together, we're gonna do a race. Um, unfortunately, as you can tell, I can walk. I can do more than walk. Um, the spinal injury I had was just due to swelling, so I had broken my spine in two places, but the swelling had uh compressed my spinal cord, so I couldn't move my legs. Um but once the swelling had gone down, my legs started working again. Um, and I believe I uh I shocked the nurses quite a bit on day three when I woke up one morning and just swung my legs around, got up, walked to the toilet with uh a tube coming out of my lung, draining my lung because my lungs had collapsed and uh stuff. And uh yeah, so that's really what got me running again. Um Wow.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

So how long was the um physio and recovery period from that then? So actually being able to like walk freely without running?

SPEAKER_03 49:43

Uh so I was in hospital for 16 days initially, uh, then got discharged um around Christmas time. So this all happened 21st of the 11th, 2011. Uh I remember that date pretty well. Um so I got discharged before Christmas, had to go in for a new few operations, um, had some metalwork put in me, so I got like metalwork in my shoulder and stuff. Um the rehab took maybe three or four months before I was able to and comfortable to run again. Um, and the first race that my friend Nikki and I entered was the Royal Parks Half Marathon through the Royal Parks in London. Yeah. Um and yeah, that was my motivation to to get running again. Um was breaking my spine.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Well, that's a that's yeah, an extreme way of getting into it, but that is incredible, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

Yeah, it was uh it was a real turning point in my life, that whole part of my life. Right. But it's made me who I am today.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. Amazing, isn't it? What triggers in life make you do these things.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

And how amazing your body is to be able to recover from things as well. Like if somebody said to me while I was lying in that hospital bed, oh one day you're gonna be out running 50 miles is just a bit of a hobby, uh I would have been like, No, you're mad, absolutely mad. But here I am. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Yeah, great. Yeah. It's just incredible, isn't it? The the power of recovery of the human body and the mind over matters to do it.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Um, and it's a nice little way to end because the next podcast will feature Priscilla Smee, where I'm sure we will uh expand quite a bit on recovery. That'd be good. More on that later. Anyway, thanks again, Mark. Thank you. And uh and thanks for sharing that. I'm glad we were able to get that in there because I think it's really loads of people have different motivations, don't they, for getting into this sport and to getting extreme about this sport. So yeah, it's really good to know. Um an unfortunate occurrence, but you know, it's one of those things in life, isn't it? It just makes you stronger and you you tend to find out where you can go with it.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Brilliant. Cheers, Mark.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Cheers, thank you.