Ep 50 - Kev interviews Olivia Howe a young woman immersed in ultra running

I am very happy to be able to bring you an interview with Olivia Howe who as a young woman has a fresh and open outlook on our sport. Ultra running in its wider sporting context has her immersed through most of her daily life. She is a joy and I hope you enjoy.

Kev

Aid Station website where you can find the episodes or leave comment https://www.aidstation.co.uk/

Please feel free to give the show some feedback on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/aid-station/id1549735359

Transcript

Section A

SPEAKER_00 0:10

I can just say that.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Hello and welcome to episode 50. Yeah, episode 50 of AidStation. The podcast started in uh January 2020, and I've managed to bang out 10 episodes a year on average, and have made it to five years and fifty episodes. So I'd like to thank everybody who has listened and downloaded to the podcast over the last five years. I hope some of the uh stuff that's been shared on here with my guests and the things that I've done in Ultra Running have in some way helped you with your running or just even having company on a run somewhere in any way. Obviously, I only do this as a hobbyist thing, so it's really nice to be able to do it in share. Um, I haven't done anything special for the 50th other than having somebody on special, uh, a new member of our running club uh called Olivia Howe, and she's got a really great story to tell. Uh Olivia is in her twenties, so quite a rare person in the ultra-running world, uh from what I've come across anyway. And so I'm happy to bring this interview with Olivia, and I hope you all enjoy. Hello, Olivia. Uh welcome to the A-Session Podcast. Thanks very much for coming along and agreeing to do the interview. Um and I've been looking forward to this one for some time because uh well I'll tell a little story about Coaching Night track session, which was on a track, but it was a grass track in the summer because the Alder Shot Military Stadium was closed. And you came along uh as a member of Heart Roadrunners. Um I don't really don't know how it came out in conversation that you said you were an ultra runner, because everybody that turns up to my sessions tends to be a roadrunner. Specifically shorter, you know, half marathon 10K stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

So would you like to expand upon I mean I don't remember how the conversation got round to it, but yeah, of course, firstly, just thanks, it's really cool to be here. Um but yeah, so I just moved to the area, um, moved towards Camberley and was looking for a local club, and I really liked the look of Heart Roadrunners because they do good track sessions and I hate doing any sort of intervals on my own. Um and then naturally in conversation, I think everyone was asking, What's your next race? Are you training for anything? And it just so happened that in the next four weeks, I think I was going to be doing Tour 100 of Tour de Jance, and I think that's how the conversation came out that we started discussing what you like to do, and obviously that seems quite extreme to maybe jump straight into or for conversation at just a Monday night track session.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

I mean, obviously I got very excited because um another reason was was your age, if you don't mind telling us your age.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, um I I look younger than I am, I hope. I think I'm 27.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Um but now I started, I've been my first ultra, I think I did about five years ago now.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Right. So that's quite early on.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Especially I I'm gonna say, especially for a female to get into ultra. Um so refreshing to see somebody turn up at a track session who was an ultra runner who's twenties, which was incredible. So, how did you get into running as a sport?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Um, I mean I always ran throughout school. I was on the athletics team and did cross country at school um and loved it. Um played a lot of lacrosse as well. And then when I was 18, I moved away from home. I actually was working with horses at the time. Um I moved up to Warwick um and quickly became aware that I wasn't doing sport anymore.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

And quite randomly signed up to a half marathon um without running further than maybe five kilometres at that time, and then just began following an online training programme from that. It had always been roadrunning to start with, um and then it was a Grand Union Canal, half marathon that I did first. Um absolutely loved it, but poured with rain the whole day. But really good. And then I'd entered Brighton Marathon as a step-on from that, um, but that got cancelled during COVID.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Oh right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Um, but then we used to have there was a 50k trail race that used to have an aid station basically on my driveway at home. And so got quite used to seeing a lot of trail runners just from home crossing on the footpaths. And I thought at some point I'd need to do that. And looked up online and with Brighton being cancelled, and very naively just signed up to this 50k without thinking much of it. Um ended up signing up to a different Chilton Ultra, it was the Runaway race. Right. One of their series. Um and ran that race, loved it, and kind of just got the bug for it from there.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

Right. Yeah. So there was did you just go then straight into trail running?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Basically, straight into trail running. And I think with that, I then started researching a lot more about it and got spammed by marketing online, basically. Got hit with the UTMB, all of their series, all of the mountain races, seeing these epic videos online and just got the bug from that.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Yeah. Great. So, and and you were living in the Chilton area at the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Yeah, so I grew up in the Chilters basically on the Ridgeway. Um, my local training trails would be round Wendiverwoods, which is probably one of my favourite places to run now, even still.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Which we just slaughtered ourselves on the back. When was that? Three weeks ago or something.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

See, well I'm gonna just interject a bit if you don't mind. I just want to mention Mark Buckle, who ran with us, and the reason of that is I did a interview with Mark and he had completed three of the fifty Grand Slams, uh, and he's now done his fourth to get the Centurion Grand Slam. So I just want to get that one tidied up out of the way. Pretty brutal race as far as I was concerned, but you seem to love the hills, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I uh I do anything the more elevation for me is the better, which basically means the less running. Right backwards. Um I like technical and anything really steep, really.

SPEAKER_04 7:40

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

And Wendoverwoods kind of provides that the whole way round.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Yeah, because you earlier you mentioned uh the hundredk at Tor X. Is running in the mountains a big thing for you now? Is that something that you Yeah, huge.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

I love the adventure of it, um, and going to see the views really. I think it's a really good way to go and really sort of feel what a place is like to experience it on your feet. And just I just find the journey of it incredible.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

Right. It's um somewhere I love anyway, being in the mountains, but it just um I don't move from your age to deciding that you want to run something as big uh in the mountains as Torrex.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

I know, and I I don't really have an answer that explains it or justifies it because and perhaps um I perhaps because I don't overthink it that much, I just tend to just go for it into these races and then usually regret it halfway through. But um I've also been very lucky in that I've found a really good group of female of girl running friends.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

And a lot of the time, so in tour I was running with a really good running friend as well. She was doing the race too, so we end up making it a group trip together.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

And it makes it much more social and accessible, we all can travel together.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

I was because I know a bit about your background having travelled with you to uh Wendover Woods 50, you did a thesis, didn't you, on your with your degree? Can you expand on that for me? Because it's really fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Of course. So I I I'm technically still still a student. I haven't defended my thesis yet, but I studied a master's in sports industry management. I studied this at Em Leon actually in Paris, um, but the whole course was taught in English, it was very international. And we got basically free reign for our thesis to explore whatever you wanted within the sports industry, and naturally for me that was going to be ultrarunning. And the statistics of ultrarunning, particularly in the longer distances, is still quite shocking to see the the lack of female representation within these races. Um I still think to this day, I mean UTMB, if we're looking at the hundred mile race, still pulls up maybe 13-14% women. And I mean, can you imagine if we saw that in the London Marathon, like it wouldn't be, it would be talked about a lot more.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

Right. Well, where where did in that thesis where did that what do you think the causes of that?

SPEAKER_01 10:25

I'm still, still, it's not it's not finished yet. It's a work in progress. Um I was very lucky I got to do loads of interviews. So actually, for my thesis, I chose to do observation and interviews. I went out to Transgrande Canaria to go and observe at that race, speak to a lot of athletes there. Um tried to work down the list of top ten athletes, but then it's filtered down and now it's even filtered into friends in the community in the UK of Ultra Runners. Um so I've done the best part of about 30 interviews with runners from this.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

And that was across all age groups. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Um the interview was very open, um but not let the interviewee know the actually that I was going to be using it for a gender disparity.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

So that the responses were very neutral, and then you can actually go back and compare the differences in what in what uh what men and women experience through these races.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Um as for the results, yeah. There's still it's it's a difficult one, and I feel like everyone has a different answer to the question to barriers to entry for women within the sport.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

I was doing a little bit of research on you before I looked up your ITRA ITRA ranking and and the races that you'd done. And then you did one in Spain, I think it was that a UTMB one.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah, Tenerife.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Yeah, and that had uh I think it was eleven or twelve percent female.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah, again.

SPEAKER_04 12:07

And then when you took that down to your age group, twenty two to thirty-four, was it? Or have I got that wrong? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the earliest age group for women running, it's even it's so small.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, I believe actually the finishes of the females for that race was less than nine percent women. Right, yeah. Or the 100, I think it's 110k across across and it's it was that was probably my worst race I've ever had. Personally, yeah. Um it was a result wasn't it? Uh no, the result was I'm very happy with the result, an incredible race. And again, I travelled there with some friends, we did the race together. Um but yeah, I mean, even if I speak from my own personal experience during races, or when discussing ultra running and when discussing it with friends from outside the sport, their answer is often that, oh well, it's too extreme for women.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

And even that, for someone to say that to me now, I find that quite shocking and pretty horrible to hear.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

Yeah. Um Yeah, because it's sending out the message, isn't it? That it is a horrible thing that you shouldn't be doing, which is it's just wrapping up. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Um it is very male dominated, and you still feel that within the races often I mean, the amount of times I've been pushed back on a start line. Or I mean in tour, for example, in every single woman's toilet I went into, there were male runners in there who would even joke that, oh, yeah, but the women's toilets are cleaner, so I'm gonna use this one.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

So there's definitely a lot of work to do, and that's all simple things to do. Um I think a lot of it still you see a lot of companies doing surface level things, um, whereas actually it definitely needs to come from deeper within. But I I there's definitely no no answer to the whole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Uh who actually have these experiences and and the information to pass on.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah. And you do I do believe there's quite a lot of de-responsibilisation of the issue from some race organizations that believe that actually it's other people's role to solve the problem.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

Even though uh it's my race and I know that's okay. Um well I'll move on a bit from that one. Um in terms of just your racing, do you do you run to race? Do you run for the environment? Do you run for friendship, social what or is it all, you know, how where does it go?

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, definitely a lot of things. Firstly, for fun and as an escape to keep fit, basically. Um I love to travel and really want to see as much as I can, and I think that these races provide a huge opportunity to do that. And so I do, I mean, all of my holidays are based around a race, pretty much now. Um and recently, within the last few years, like I said, I've managed to grow a really nice group of friends around the sport, and so it has become a community and a friendship thing. Where I mean, just this weekend I'm going down to Brecon, I've got a mold wine, half marathon, uh, which I'm doing with a really good friend. Um, and that's become a huge, a huge part of my running is just to go and meet people.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

Yeah, fantastic. Is there a racing side to Olivia?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Uh yeah, there is. Um and it's quite funny because in in tour, um I remember f up until about 80k, I think I was in fifth place um and felt really good, really happy with that. I was a bit shocked by it. And I think that really starts you start driving you like, oh, this is like really quite impressive and proud of myself for this. Um and then that was sort of the first time I've experienced like real fatigue in a race.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

The race starts at 9 pm uh on the Wednesday evening, and I'd barely slept on the Tuesday before, and then you have the whole day where you can try and nap, but we've just never really switched off the day before a race. Um, and so then I was super exhausted, and my mum was texting me, you're in fifth place, you're in sixth place, you're in seventh, and I was like, I know, don't you think I can see these girls coming past me right now? Um and so yeah, there is a competitive side. I'm still like I feel still very new to the sport. So I don't feel like I mean, every race I do, I learn something new about what I would change if I would go back and do it again. Um especially as I try newer and longer distances, I think it's a bit naive for me to go in to these races and feel truly competitive.

SPEAKER_04 17:28

And you don't ha you know if we can say this, you don't have a huge engine in terms of background of endurance running.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

No.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

So you've got all that to build, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Exactly. Uh if you look at my training, you'd probably be quite surprised because I don't do excessive miles within the week. I do quite a lot of strength training in the gym. Um I've spoken to you before that I use the stare machine quite a lot for hill training, as mind-nombing as it can be. You speak to the girls that I run with, yeah, we don't I don't do massive mileage, and it's definitely something I need to build up and and start start building.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

So would you what would your typical training week be running wise?

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Depending on what's coming up. So if I were training for a hundred K in the mountains, I'd probably do four runs a week with then one one, maybe two strength sessions in it. But the max long distance that I get up to is about a 30, 35k. If it's a mountain race, then I might try and go and do a weekend with two days back to back, 35k each day with a good few thousand metres in. But it's very unstructured. Yeah. I just run a like m mainly for fun.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

And I like to keep it like that.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

Keep it like that, yes. Yeah. You don't want to be pressurizing yourself.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

But I guess one of the things as well is to get away into the hills. You know, where we live, it's not great, is it? For I mean there's nice places to run with Brecon Beacons or Snowdonia.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

So Exactly, and that's why I find myself going a bit or I feel like I need to have something booked in to keep me going out and to keep me going out to find these hills and to go to Brecon or up to Wales, wherever. Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Just to So your longest so far is 100K, yeah? In the race, is it?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, it was actually it was meant they'd sold it as 100k, but it ended up being about 115.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Oh right, okay. Which was quite.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah. We got to the there was meant to be um your drop bag at 44k at OES. In um in this was in Tor 100. We got to about 56k and we hadn't got to this aid stage.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

This is gonna be a bit longer.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

Longer, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

Oh wow. So how many have you done around the 60?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Um I've done miles. My first my first really big race was UTS 100. Right. Um I did in 2023, um, which I absolutely loved, had the best day ever. Oh, just never really had a one small low point on the second climb, but otherwise I just loved it and I think ran on adrenaline a lot of the way. Um and then I did I've done a lot of 50k races.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Um I then did Tenerife, which was 110k.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Which was an unusual race because you basically run 50k uphill and then down really because it's just up over the volcano. Um and I was really looking forward to running downhill and then I got to it and I could barely run down on downhill.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Uh and then tour 100. Yeah. So really not many.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Not many, no. There's a so much out there and a lot to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

So what's your well I know what's coming next, so what's your next big next big one?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

I've uh entered UTS 100 mile.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Which I'm super excited about. Uh although halfway through running tour 100, I was like, why on earth have I signed up to that? Um yeah, it will be my first 100 mile race, so very uncharted. Um excited to see how it feels. Um and it's a good chance for me. Like I said, my training is at the moment hasn't been that in-depth, and I'd really like to see if I can build a really good training block up to that.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

To see how it can go. Um, I've got a few friends running it as well, so it'd be all right.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

So you can work together.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Hopefully, although to be honest, I think she's gonna be well ahead of me.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Um yeah, in the run up to that, I've got I'm doing Arc forty K again because I've got friends going to that race um and to keep me ticking over I guess through winter. And then I've just entered the Centurion Hundred Hills, which is in March again, just to give me something to keep keep me going.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

And it is it it's May, is it UTS?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah, it's in May, um I think the 18th, off the top of my head, that might be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Um, which I mean for the last three years they've had like 22 degrees, sunshine, clouds, no rain, and I feel like that luck is probably due to run out at some point. Um so we'll see. Uh but I really like it up there. I know the route without a GPX now, um, at least the 100k. Um very familiar with the routes up there. Um before I did the 100k, I went up there for three or four weekends uh just to go and recce and get used to it.

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

And I plan to do the same again.

SPEAKER_04 23:08

And are you looking to gain stones? Is that are you looking to get to UTMB?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

I I'd love to do it just because I know that the race is so iconic and the route is is exceptional. I mean, and to run through France, Italy, Switzerland, just it's just incredible, and there's really not many races that offer that. Yeah. Um I'd like to do it sooner rather than later. Um you see now, like it's a bit oversubscribed.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Um, and you see there's a lot of bottlenecks on the trails now, and it definitely just doesn't quite have the same feel that it perhaps once did. Um, but it's definitely on my bucket list. I will enter the ballot over Christmas, fingers crossed. I'd love to go and do it um to experience it. I've run the ETC there, the there's the 20k race there. Oh, right, okay. Um, which was very fast. Um rapid. I could not keep up with those ladies, but um it is on my list. Um I'm in the ballot for Western States.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

Oh, fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

But I've got two ticket episons, and I think with a friend we worked out that that equals 0.8% chance of getting in.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

So not holding out much hope. Not holding out much hope for that. Um you've got a long time to do tickets for that race, I think.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Um on top of that, I've actually, I mean, I really loved tour this year. I'd be tempted to go back and run Tot Dret, the 130k race there, which I know then if you can complete that, you then get access to the 330. But to be honest, I think I'm too young for that and need more more miles, more long races before even contemplating going to a race like that.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Yeah. Um I'm not gonna disagree with you. I mean, I wouldn't put anybody off at any age wanting to get on with it, but yeah, I remember if you want a long career, it's maybe not the best. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Um during tour 100, I was complaining about being tired, and then a man came past me doing the 330, and he told me that he'd slept for four hours in four days.

unknown 25:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

And I was like, I can't complain about being tired anymore.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

I better shut up and keep running. Um but I it's hard now because there's so many races to choose from, and they're all becoming oversubscribed.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

And so if you want to get into them, you need to be entering the ballot the year before you even and I don't know where I'm gonna be, that's right, what I'm gonna be doing, whether I'm working.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

It's very hard to plan out like not even a year, you're talking now eighteen months ahead.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

How can you know where you are and fitness-wise and everything and what and you can uh can end up entering like three ballots for three different hundred mile races, and what happens if you get into two of them then you're like, what what do I do?

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Yeah. Time's on your side though.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yeah. And I also I need to explore more of the UK first.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Yeah. And there's a loads of great events out there anyway, smaller stuff that would get you the experience.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Also, we haven't discussed what you do for a living because it's also very ultra related. Do you uh would you like to tell us what you do?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Certainly. Um at the moment I'm doing an internship with Salomon. Um I started in July. I've just extended my contract, which I'm super happy about. Um I'm based in the UK with the marketing team.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

My actual role is digital marketing. Um, so all CRM emails, uh, meta-ads, um, any articles posted on dot com, um, any events pages uh of what I manage and put together.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Um, and it's been really, really cool to see just what goes in to a brand like this. Um, and I was really lucky last week I got to go out to Anasi to the to the design centre and just see the operation of the company that it is and what it's becoming. I mean, it's growing really rapidly at the moment.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Is that the whole company? Is that the ski? I mean, what are the branches of Salaman?

SPEAKER_01 27:51

So, well, we have performance and sports style.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Um, and sports style has grown incredibly. Uh, you see now, I mean, if you go in Paris, almost everyone is wearing a pair of XT6 salamons, um, it's become a fashion statement as well. I mean, we see it as well with this Gorb core trend.

SPEAKER_04 28:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Wearing outdoor equipment cities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

Uh as I've been doing that for years.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

I know.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I know you set the trend.

SPEAKER_04 28:20

No, I've got the trendy but not.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Um but I feel really lucky because uh we have an amazing team in the UK. It's a small team, so you know I know everyone by name um within the marketing team. There's only about ten of us. Um but everyone is just a mountain lover, an outdoorsy. Brilliant. Either they're into skiing, hiking, whatever it is. So the team is just fantastic, really.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

And did you you set out to get a role with them or a similar outdoor company?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Uh I've been a Salomon fan for a long time. Um my first trip was she just wear a salomon. Yeah. Um and yeah, when I studied in France, again, it's a French brand, kind of solidified that.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

And it's just a brand that I really resonate with. I think it's I think it's fantastic. I think they have great initiatives. Um a great product. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 29:28

Yeah. That's the first um bit of brand that's ever been on this podcast, they're not do sponsorship, but I'm quite happy as it's your job and it's related for you to talk about it. So yeah. In terms of let's let's expand a bit more on Sally. They pitch their involvement in terms of the you know, the sharp end uh of of racing in in in terms of ultra running.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Are they we have um there's a really fantastic global team um of athletes uh who are fully supported. There's obviously the Golden Trail series, uh, which is And that's Salamon sponsored.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Um a World Series uh is mostly skyrunning, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Very technical trails, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Um shorter distances as well.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Um, and there's a fantastic team of athletes in there, they're all incredibly well supported from nutritionists through to any area that they might need help.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Do they use that as the route through to Joe blogs like me?

SPEAKER_01 30:35

I mean I think uh it's it's definitely a great touch point, and I think to remain respected and relevant within a sports organisation, you have to have to be seen at the top end. And it's so important, especially for transitioning in with sports style and the way that's growing. If you don't remain true to your roots as a mountain brand and a performance brand, you're never gonna grow and keep those keep that new market.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

Yeah. Yeah, I get that. I mean, all of us, I mean, I did this podcast about the mid-to-back pack, but all of us are interested in what's going on at the sharp end, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

No, well, it's a huge, huge part of of the brand. It's I think it's how most people come to know the brand now is through the sport and the performance.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Yeah. Great. And you mentioned um skyrunning. Is that somebody maybe I'm speaking because I know a bit about you, but is that somewhere you'd like to direction you go in?

SPEAKER_01 31:44

I do love it, and like I said before, the steeper and the more technical trails I really, really love. Um I've done a few sky races. I did the Snowden Sky Race, right? Um, which goes all across Uptropan and Kricrop. Yeah. Um very technical and loved it. Yeah. I like heights, which um probably plays quite a big role in it. And um I did also a fantastic sky race called Sky Race de Mat Matissan. Maticine. Probably butchered that. It's near Grenoble in France. Um when I was living there, I got the train down there. Pretty much the whole thing was on snow. Just across across ridge lines. I think the adrenaline that comes with it, I really like. Um and you can do more of them with more than two big ultras over a hundred K within a year, anyway. Whereas with these shorts.

SPEAKER_04 32:52

Well who would do that? One idiot.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

He says.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Um That's only because I'm running out of time. You've got loads.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Uh no, I really like them. I'm really tempted to enter the Scarfell Skyracing. Right. Um, I think we've got some great ones in the UK and over in the Mourne in in Ireland as well. I just my problem is at the moment there's kind of too many races.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

I think that must be even, you know, I don't want to keep on about your age, but it's like being a kid in a sweep shop. Because there's so much out there to explore, and you're at that age where you know you to rock up, run, yeah, recover quickly, what's next? And that's really exciting.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

It's really cool. My friends usually make fun of me for it because yeah, like it's the like do you do you ever have a month where you're not gonna go into a race?

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Um, but I don't know, it keeps me going, I love it. And I think you I get a lot of motivation from the races. Actually, before Wendover Woods, I was having a bit of a running slump. Just not. And took a bit more effort to get out the door, basically.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

And even just since running Wendover, I feel like I've got my merger back.

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing for better than being on a start line. I mean, number one, you have to get your entry in, because that's what keeps you training. But when you're on the start line, I just it's just wonderful. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

You get such such good booth, just just a good feeling, good vibe.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Yeah. Do you this group of friends of yours, what sort of age group are they? I'm sorry to keep on at that, but I'm fascinated by getting younger people into ultra running and not be not it being a sport where oh you've got to be a 40-year-old bloke who's run marathons to suddenly get into it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Um I am the youngest of the group. Yeah. But um so one of my best friends running, she's Michelle Attridge, she's a fantastic runner. She won this Centurion Grand Slam last year, actually.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

But I met her during a sky race actually in Norway in Lafoten. So I'd one of my one of my best friends growing up was Norwegian, and I'd been to visit her, and we were running along, and I was convinced that I was the only non-Norwegian in the race until I heard her say thank you to someone, and then we got chatting and found out we live ten minutes away from each other in the UK. And since then we've run together at least once once a month. Right. Um, and she's coming to Brecon this weekend with me. Um she's a fantastic runner. I'm usually trying to keep up with her as she's chatting non-stop, not even out of breath. Yeah, but she's been a huge inspiration and motivation for me within the sport and just showed that it it's actually made it seem quite normal.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

Yeah, that's good. Because is it something when you get on a start line and you scan around that you're you know, you don't see anybody that's of your age or looks like you?

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Uh yeah, a little bit. And even sometimes when I just go to do like bib collection or kit check, they're like, Oh, what do what distance are you doing? And then expect me to be in in the shorter race or something.

SPEAKER_04 36:28

Um Can I see your ID features?

SPEAKER_01 36:32

I mean it's not like it's an insult or anything, if anything, I'm kind of flattered or excited by it when they show some surprise. Um but it I it'd just be really nice to have some more girls on that line to run with, to chat with.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

I don't know how how you crack that, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

It's a very tough one.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

It's an unusual one, I think, for somebody you know, even like in their early twenties, to to see ultra running, and maybe ultra running is not a good term when you're that age to say that that's what you want to get into.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

I know, although I would say that within a lot of running clubs and trail communities, maybe not ultra, but you still see a lot of women and on a lot of like camps or training holidays, you actually see more equal representation.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

It's just it seems to be, it doesn't transfer to the races, or at least the long distance races yet.

SPEAKER_04 37:34

Yeah, I think yeah, just looking at the stats, it would indicate that the longer you go, the less women generally, and then of course proportionately, because your age group's in the smallest, I would say, haven't looked, I mean, other than getting over the sixty age group. Um But it's such a shame because you need that weight. I mean, I you know, you listen to James on his podcast, and now he's on weekly, we can hear him all the time. Um he can you know he talks about his races where they don't have a sixty-year-old woman finisher, or we've never had a uh a woman in that age finish certain races. And you think, yeah, because there's no weight coming through that are then gonna stay hang in there and yeah because women should be in there longer than men who are sixty. They just you know, I mean they live longer for a start, they they just aren't enough weight to them in the in the sport. So we need them to come in at the bottom end and stay all the way through.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

I think I'm gonna be here for the long run.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

But I don't know because um I mean there's so many different factors that go into it from a family lifestyle, the role that a woman typically plays within the household with children as well. And you do see that transfer, even on if you go and watch the finish line of UT and B, the amount of dads who will run across the finish line with, and I think it's the cutest finish line photo, but then you've got the mum on the side who's actually been looking after them for the whole race.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

So dad's not only the hero from running all the way around Mont Blanc, he also gets to carry the kids over the line and make himself look like the ultimate father.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Well, the mum's probably gone from aid station to aid station with like two two two-year-old kids or something.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

That's right. Um being up all night with them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Um there's definitely a a joint role, and and I'd also had um a friend as well who had finished a trail race. Her daughter was on the sideline, she didn't finish holding the daughter's hand, and online she got some stick for not carrying the kid across the line. So there's different different treatment.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Yeah. Which Yeah, that's all it all layers up. Yeah. Well, let's hope loads more Olivia Howes turn up then.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

I don't know if you want that.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Yeah, I know I I know the sport definitely I mean I don't know. I think you do hear people that people are really trying hard, aren't they? Yeah. And there are lots of women trying hard.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Yeah, and there's yeah, some fast fantastic initiatives. And I think just best thing we could do is just talk about it. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

Um yeah, hopefully people see people like you say, Oh, I could do that.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Come along.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

Yeah. And I I was pleased because James used a picture of you. I'm sure he is I don't know if his marketing people knew it or used it, but you look very happy running along in a Wendover Woods 50.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

I've mastered the art of smiling for 30 seconds for the camera.

SPEAKER_04 40:53

Yeah, but the great thing is it's a lovely image to use to get you know, it's no different to using black people's faces on their images to get black people in as well. So it's the same showing that the demographic of all sorts to yeah to get them in.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

We do need to get get more. And you see a lot of racists now, they split the start line to get half women, half men on the front, just again, just for mmia perspective, but it means that people see it and people see because I think that's one of the what I I love about the sport is that we have men and women all ages, from elite professionals to your family man who's got three kids and a full-time job, all on the same start line. Um we just need to show find a way to show that through the media as well, to show that everyone everyone has a spot within this sport.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

Yeah, you're so right. Hopefully we will.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

It's getting better.

SPEAKER_04 41:57

Yeah, is it well it's changed a hell of a lot since I started, yeah. So yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, to be honest, this wasn't even a discussion when I started. You know, I mean and I guess there were more if you were in the north in the fell running community, you would have seen loads more women. Exactly, but not down south.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 42:18

Yeah. So that's quite a movement across.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

At um at Tor this year, they they have a crazy 450 kilometre glaciers race.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

And this was the first year they had a full women's podium, actually finished.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Oh really?

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Which is five women.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Um but again it just goes to show.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

Yeah, what you need. But you have to complete uh Tour de Gian, don't you, to get into glaciers?

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Within a certain time frame, I'm not sure exactly.

SPEAKER_04 42:48

Yeah. But uh Yeah, it is yeah, it's I can't remember what the time frame is, but it's a certain time to prove you can do it. But that really is.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

It shows that ultimately that's uh an extreme.

SPEAKER_04 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

I think yeah, it doesn't get that more extreme than this than this.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

But there's no reason to get there. I I've just I don't know why it took me so long, but I'm just reading do you know L have you have you heard of Lizzie Hawker?

SPEAKER_03 43:16

No, not the time.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

See, this is the big female gap. She won five editions of UTMB starting in 2005. You don't know that, and she's British and she won it five times. Exactly. So this is part of the problem. Now, admittedly, she might be somebody who has sort of disappeared out of the front as a deal. I don't she doesn't come across to me to being a high media type person, and probably doesn't do all Instagram and these other things. Um But yeah, she was a real she mountain adventurer and Everest base camp to Kathmandu, all that, you know, that sort of running. Um But you wonder what how a woman like that just is almost under the radar basically. Yeah, now. So yeah, it's something else that needs to be. I think she's do you know the uh Monta Rosa?

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

That's her event. I think she uh started that event.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

It's our UTNB event.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Oh is it?

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Oh right. Well it won't be anything to do with her I don't think but okay yeah I think she started it or was it instrumental in it yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Okay. So there are women out there and there's some fantastic women out there.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Um Courtney is a huge inspiration of mine. Right. I think she's just fantastic and the fact that she's always smiling is just awesome. And do you is that something that you look out for what the women performances are like in um yeah I do like to um it's not something that I like I I actually try not to look like I've got equally as many male male yeah um I say idols or people that I would look up to within the sport as I do female. I try not to really look into it too much. And while I am here hugely advocating for getting more women into the sport I think there's also a fine balance between you end up highlighting the the issue. And it could end up having somewhat of a a negative effect.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

Because it is a sport we all share the sexes so but yeah I um yeah I don't I just I it's I don't know you you get it's hard to just have a feeling about it or an interest in a few people in the sport without you thinking or other people thinking that's you know I could you know I could drop Sabina Vergie or you know or any of these big names Jasmine Paris and um it's maybe it's just that they because they achieve so much Sarah Perry recently you know they their names that suddenly get on the world stage because of the m incredible achievements. Yeah but then you know there's a a big void isn't there to be honest behind them. It's just that they've achieved so much. Exactly at the top end.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

And whether or not it accurately is I don't know if it's the best way is by highlighting these women's achievements because these women are somewhat superhuman to us. I mean I think their performances are unbelievable. Yeah but it might not resonate with any newcomer to the sport.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

That's right. Do you know that whole thing you know the I don't want to take anything away from Jasmine Paris but her finish at Barclays was just so immense and the picture of her collapsed on the floor and everything. Incredible do you think that appealed to women? No. It appealed to us blokes were all going that's bloody amazing you know that's how blokes want to finish racists don't you think that's the like she can see it just absolutely gave every every ounce there was nothing left in the tank whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Yeah and perhaps that is something that yeah attracts more more of a male ego it's the like the macho I mean I've not taken anything away and you know awesome and fantastic and yeah it'd probably be a long time before another woman does it I would imagine but and it just it was it was so cool to watch. Yeah brilliant but I I see what you mean that yeah it's it's not it's not what you would describe as a traditionally a feminine yeah position to be feminine.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

And so that begs the question of actually to get more women in the sport is it more of a question of what is it to be feminine?

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

I have a good uh friend as well um Charlotte Fisher she's a fantastic runner she always runs with red lipstick on right and used to get a bit of a stick for it basically of like oh at least she's had time to reapply her lipstick before she's finished a hundred mile race and it's like okay you've acknowledged that she's finished a hundred mile race but you're focusing on the fact that she's wearing lipstick which I hope she continues to do it because I just think it's awesome and I think it's a a cool way to show that you can be girly and you can run a hundred miles.

SPEAKER_04 48:41

Yeah yeah I mean it's not something I've particularly considered that I even could say I've noticed but yeah I have heard the contra argument from females though that you know why why does she wear why would you wear lipstick when you're running an Ultra?

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Totally and but why why you are allowed to exactly yeah why can't you you know it's just be people wear all sorts of things as well in ultrasound.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

It fits yeah and it's like why you know why not I encourage it all. I want to see it all basically and why not? If you can't run out there in the wild trust Air where where can you? Yeah. Well again that is a topic that could go on forever.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:32

Anyway it's been lovely having you on and obviously really looking forward to seeing how you go on with your running I hate I can't I mean people call it their running career and it's not a career is it? It's you're not being paid. It's your life yeah your running life that's a better way of putting it um in the future and it it's it's great having you in the the club and having yet another ultra runner to talk to and and even race with although I won't say I was with you very long I think you can't have been far away from coming back into that tent just behind me when I was going out on the fifth lap I think because you were what two hours ahead of me I think it was. I don't know the exact time so yeah yeah you must have been very close to catching me old lappy I kept asking each time I was going through did you ask going through what in case I was close. James said you were smiling anyway thanks very much Olivia thank you and I'm sure we will get you back on again.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

Oh that'd be great.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Yeah I'd love to get you back on after Ray UTS Hundred Miler. Oh gosh the first hundred miler that'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Yeah I'm excited for that fun fingers crossed for some good weather um well yeah because that will be a big factor.

SPEAKER_04 50:59

I mean having done the dragons back a couple of times in real heat you don't really want that 22 even.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Yeah and because it's usually like the first warm days of the year prepared for it. So if you it feels like it's thirty degrees and it's really not but no you want about fifteen or less don't you and anyway nothing you can do about that. No that's that's all part of it.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

We'll find out thanks very much thank you well I hope you enjoyed that interview with Olivia uh really enlightening I'm sure and hopefully very encouraging um it'd be great to get lots of younger people involved in this sport coming through and enjoying their ultra running I hope that's some sort of inspiration from her to you all and until the next aid station which will be along before the end of the year because I've got some spine race specials coming along see you all at the next aid station this is Kev saying bye for now to the next bloody delicious