Is ROAS Overrated? – Why the “Revenue Trap” Might Kill Your Google Ads Profit

Is ROAS a flawed metric for Google Ads? According to acclaimed ecommerce experts Mike Ryan and Christian Scharmüller, using Return on Ad Spend (ROAS) as your primary "North Star" metric creates a dangerous "Revenue Trap." Because ROAS measures revenue rather than actual margin, it creates an "air gap" that ignores the law of diminishing returns, ultimately hurting the profitability of mature Google Ads campaigns.

In this episode of Growing eCommerce, the hosts break down how to properly use ROAS as a bidding signal and explore the latest transparency updates to Google’s Performance Max (PMax) campaigns.

The Problem with ROAS as a Profit Proxy: Many advertisers use ROAS as a stand-in for profit. However, as campaigns scale, incremental returns flatten out. A 600% ROAS does not guarantee your next ad dollar will yield the same profit margin.

ROAS is a Communication Vessel, Not Just a Goal: Setting a blanket ROAS target across multiple campaigns is a strategic mistake. ROAS is actually your primary bidding signal and pacing tool to steer Google's algorithms.

Dynamic vs. Static Targeting: Advertisers should move away from adjusting ROAS based on "gut feeling" and adopt a scientific, data-driven approach based on specific campaign constraints.

Resources & Expert Links

• FREE smec Advanced Channel Report Script: https://smarter-ecommerce.com/en/google-ads-scripts/pmax-channel-insights/

About Mike Ryan:

Based in Austria and originally from Boston, Mike Ryan is the Head of Ecommerce Insights at Smarter Ecommerce (smec) with over ten years of experience in retail and PPC landscape. With a robust background spanning retail operations, product management, and digital ads, Mike leverages his multidisciplinary expertise to drive data-informed strategies that help online retailers optimize their performance in an increasingly competitive market.

About Christian Scharmueller:

As a seasoned veteran in the PPC and Ecommerce space, Christian Scharmüller serves as the CCO & Managing Director of Smarter Ecommerce. With over 12 years of experience at the forefront of ad tech, Christian is a sought-after speaker at major industry events, including SMX and OMR, where he shares insights on high-level e-commerce strategy and the future of retail media.

About Smarter Ecommerce (smec):

Smarter Ecommerce (smec) empowers e-commerce brands with AI-driven PPC automation that optimizes for profit and business outcomes while maintaining strategic control.

The platform activates first-party data - profit margins, customer lifetime value, and key business metrics - to automate campaign optimization toward goals like profitability and efficient growth, while detailed campaign insights provide full transparency and enable PPC teams to focus on strategic oversight rather than manual execution.

As a Google Premier Partner and three-time Microsoft Retail Partner of the Year, smec manages over €500 million in ad spend and drives €5B+ in annual e-commerce revenue for 350+ global retail clients including THG, Snipes, REWE, and Intersport.

Make sure to follow smec - Smarter Ecommerce for more performance marketing insights:

smec - Smarter Ecommerce: https://www.smarter-ecommerce.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/smarter-ecommerce-gmbh
Newsletter: https://smarter-ecommerce.com/en/newsletter/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smarterecommerce/

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome, welcome back. Um, good to see you. So, and welcome back to all of our listeners. This is another episode of Growing E-Commerce brought to you by Smarter E-Commerce. I'm one of your hosts, Mike Ryan, and with me today is Christian Scharmüller.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

My name is, by the way, not as sexy as yours. Christian Scharmüller versus Mike Ryan. I lose right there. It's hurting. Oh, that's a region bias. It's a region bias. Do you think Scharmüller is sexy for non-German speakers?

unknown 0:38

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

No, yeah, that's the point. So I will probably introduce myself with only Chris the next time. Because Chris is somehow fine.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

The struggles I've gone through, I've lived in Austria for a while now, and uh every time that I have to explain my last name to someone, filling a piece of paperwork, looking me up in a customer database, whatever, I just I end up having to write it down on a piece of paper. And it's only four letters.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Come on, man. So I love it. By the way, are you Mike or Michael Ruhn? I'm Michael. Michael? So Michel. Yeah, that's my exactly. And I say Michel so that they can they know how to spell it. Yeah. Michel Ruhan. And then then you're saved. Yeah, exactly. So are we talking about names today? No. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Um what well, you know, I've got my transition now. Uh what's what's in a name, Chris? Would a would a would a Roas by any other name smell as sweet? Do you know this Shakespeare line? I I I know, but I'm I'm not sure what the answer is, man. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Well, are you a Roas fan?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

No, I've I have a long documented history. I think I've talked about it on this podcast before as well. No, I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

You're not. I'm not sure if I am, but you you know that the GOAT discussions? Federa versus Chukovich, Jordan versus Libron, but that's not even a discussion. Sure. It's certainly Jordan. But I think Roas is right up there in the in the GOAT discussion for the greatest of all time, KPI. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I really think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Roas is there. Probably. It's maybe just uh between that and like, you know, um Ecos from advertising cost of sale from from Amazon. They probably which is just the inverse of ROAS. So it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

We call it cool in Trevor. Uh so but that's a perfect segue to the discussion we might have, right? Yeah. Because there are two myths left. Uh we didn't tackle it last time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So for people just jumping in last episode, we we wanted to start off this year. We're a little late in the year, but for our late rising start, we want to talk about five myths uh affecting e-commerce growth in Google Ads. We did three of them last time, we couldn't get through. So um let's let's speedrun these. We've got uh the first one is the idea that Roas is a North Star. Yes Chris just mentioned it's kind of the greatest of all time. If not the MVP, then the certainly when in like most popular, most widely cited performance metric.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

That's for sure. By the way, we have to uh differentiate between the greatest of all time and best of all time. So I think ROAS is maybe the greatest of all time for a lot of emotional reasons, but I think it's not the best of all time. I think there are better KPIs out there. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But the myth we're talking about is basically is it the north star of your campaigns? I mean, let's be precise here. What the what do we mean by by by being a north star?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, well, I think that the reason ROAS is so popular is that it's just very easy to calculate. Um it at least at face value seems quite easy to understand, and you can apply it at at all different levels from really a you can really look at this, or you might call your marketing efficiency ratio, but you can look at this across all your channels. You can look at this per channel, you can look at it per account within a channel, you know, campaigns and your campaign entities. It's just you can calculate it all the way down to assets inside of Google Ads.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Um and it's completely independently of the time range you you you want to look at as hourly, monthly, weekly, yearly. Exactly. Um yeah, there are the there are the advantages to it. And first and foremost, uh Mike, um a lot of clients still use it as a proxy for profit.

Myth #4: Is ROAS the "North Star" of Google Ads?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Exactly. And that's the next thing. Why and Google has encouraged us. They often uh they'll talk about your return on investment or they'll talk about your profit, and they're actually really speaking about ROAS. ROIS, yeah. Um which is which is crazy in itself.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

But uh let let's um let let's make an arc.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

For shareholders too, ROAS has been very popular improving because it looks good in lack last-click attribution. Yes. It looks good in bottom funnel performance marketing channels, and ROAS has been a huge driver of spend and investment in these in these areas, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

No, I think there's an argument to be made that there are a lot of advantages uh coming with with this KPI. Um that's for sure. But let's let's let's be critical of it now. Um what what is the what what are the the things you you you think are are connected with ROAS in a negative way in terms of either it's it's it's used wrongly, either it's interpreted wrongly. What what comes to your mind?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I mean, yeah, I'd like to attack it, you know, or constructively from two different angles. Um always constructively. I'm not out to demonize anything, um, but to just be critical toward it from two angles, and one of which is how is it understood? Yes, for what purposes is it used for? It gets used as a proxy for profit. Um and the question is always you know, proxies are are really valuable. We talked in the last episode about bringing your margin data in. People want to be more profit-oriented in their campaigns. They want their campaigns to be profitable. That's fair. And a proxy arises, you know, it's an indirect measure. If you if you're having a hard time directly measuring the profitability of a channel, then ROIS becomes a proxy. But something that can happen, it's um, that proxy is always going to be imprecise. There's always gonna be some kind of an air gap between that indirect measure and what you're actually trying to measure. And it's not, I don't know, I don't want to say it's lazy, but it's it's human nature that sometimes we forget about that gap and we let these the distance kind of collapse mentally. And we just let that be a perfect stand in our mind for for for profit. So that's something that bothers me because it is a revenue-based metric in most implementations, not a profit-based metric. And that's that's definitely one part.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

That's definitely one part. Plus one, I think nothing to argue about. By the way, I I don't know if it's if it's laziness or if it's sometimes really the lack of capability to really have the profit data directly in your Google Ads ecosystem. It's it's sometimes fascinating how how tough it is for former retailers. I mean, we have had some projects where we support our retailers to do so. So maybe sometimes it's really not laziness, but lack of capability and also still the fear I don't want my profit data to be shared with Google. Yeah. We talked about that. Yeah. Which I think doesn't make sense at all. Yeah. Google is not interested in the profit data. Yeah. I assume. I think not in the grand conspiratorial way that some people think. No. What should they do with the profit data of a mid-sized online retailer?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

And if they want to find out, they find out anyway.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

If I would if I were Amazon, would I submit my profit data?

unknown 7:33

No.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Amazon not.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

But the long tail of online retailers listening to this podcast.

The "Revenue Trap": Why ROAS is a flawed proxy for profit

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Let's do it. There is no risk. Yeah, it it depends. But um, yeah, and I mean we already, you know, you already know the range of gross profit margins. You can look at the distribution per category and you can get a pretty close approximation.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

And there are ways, by the way, to to to modify it. True. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

So that the But we're getting we're getting we're getting a bit a bit a bit away from the topic though.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Thank you very much, Mike. Thank thank you for moderating it. But this is it's something which I I don't get. Man, I I don't get so many things, but this is one of the okay. Right. Back to the rowers. Another thing what I see is is is something which bothers me, at least, at least sometimes, is that the clients um don't understand the the massive impact of the universal universally recognized law of diminishing returns. Yeah. Uh ROAS, as simple as it is, um, they look at a campaign, and yeah, my ROAS is great. It's at 600%. And sometimes really there's the lack of know-how that um, yes, your ROAS is is at 600%, but do you have an understanding what the incremental ROAS was of the last, let's say, 2,000 euros you spent?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Like the basic idea of diminishing returns, yeah, uh, and that this curve flattens, yeah. It's uh I'm not kidding, it's sometimes not there. And I think it's it's massively tied to the to the whole ROAS idea.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

100%. I mean, I I think what disturbs me here is is that um, you know, again, we talked about that that air gap or that margin of error between your ROAS, how well it's modeled to your to your profit if you're using it as a proxy. And like as you get, you know, as you because ROAS will also, you'll see a ROAS follow a diminishing curve. Um and as you do that, my my concern is like um if that margin of error is is fixed or is a constant, you're getting into this area where there's way less kind of um wiggle room. Absolutely. And so the margin of error gets bigger. Exactly, proportionate to what to the increment. You know? And the other thing there too is like you your actual profit, these things will both be on diminishing return curves. And and the question is like, is it on a different curve? Yes. How is the shape of that curve next to each other? Because these two things, it's it's actually, you know, when a campaign is early scaling, when you're finding your way, there's probably not too much of a problem here. But it's it's in that mature campaign that's up and running where you're trying to optimize it, you're trying to spend more, and this becomes really kind of scary at a certain point.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

It it it can become scary. And uh Yeah, look, I mean, the that this this this this understanding of incr incremental performance in in general is is something which uh which I I don't see discussed enough uh in the market. Um and I I I would certainly encourage everyone to have a close look at that. I mean you you can run with ROAS as a proxy for your for your profit because I I think certain degree it's working, right? But be aware of of this flattening return curve because uh the margin gets gets bigger, especially if the profit stays constant. The proportional difference get can can become scary. Yeah, definitely.

Understanding Diminishing Returns & Incremental ROAS

SPEAKER_01 10:59

I think we have a visual aid we'll throw on for the let's do this, yeah. We have a slide here, yeah. But um, you know, that that's one thing is like this idea of ROS as a North Star. One is are you measuring, like, are you allowing this to kind of be a surrogate or or overtake what you're actually trying to measure? But another topic becomes that due to changes in the campaign technology, ROAS is in an awkward spot because it it can't only be your your business objective that you're trying to reach.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Do you want to finish the thought for me, Chris? Because actually this is maybe the the the and this is not even a knock on on you, ROAS. I I love you as a KPI. And actually no one asked ROAS to even be in this position. Yeah. We're ROAS. No one no one talked to him. But ROAS, um, and by the way, uh this was was uh was one one big part of of my talk uh last week at the e-commerce expo. Um it's ROAS is probably one of it it's it might be the greatest of all time, but it's for me currently also one of the most misunderstood uh KPIs uh uh of all time because people don't understand that ROAS is for sure not only your north sign in terms of I have a goal with my campaigns. It's probably next to the campaign structure the most important communication vessel vehicle to signal Google what you want to do due to the new technologies, especially PMAX. And I tell you, Mike, and maybe we can also show a slide here. Uh I talked about last week. We what when when we um do audits or account analysis, and this is across the board, small to big retailers. We we we analyze accounts where the client is super proud of about his uh of his as let's say very granular campaign structure, right? Uh they do it based on margin. We talked about purely doing it based on margin classes is not the best idea uh uh either. But let's say there are 10 campaigns in the account based on on different margin classes, and then you look at the ROAS target settings, yeah, and they're all the same. I'm not kidding. This this is uh pardon my French, but this is this is almost this is almost stupid. Yeah, almost stupid. You treat your 10 campaigns, which you actually want to treat differently, the one major signal you can give to Google, which is the ROAS, you have a similar ROAS or these 10 campaigns.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Sorry, man. I know I yeah, then your only at that point your only differentiator or your core differentiator is uh your budget at that point. Budget. Yeah, but so you can try to pace it with budget.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

And uh again, I I talked about this and and uh I looked into the faces of my listeners. By the way, great crowd, and and uh hopefully some of them are uh listening to this podcast now. But it it it it felt like uh yeah, they they understood it, but yeah, it it we had some conversations afterwards. Yes, it's it's quite a common thing. ROAS is primarily understood as a goal.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Still well, let's spell it out here because on the one hand, ROAS is supposed it's a stand-in for a business objective, your breakeven or your profitability, whatever. So it's this efficiency target that should be rather stable, fixed thing that you want to hit. You're a North Star that's got in your campaigns. Um now on the and we you know if the North Star is leading you in the right direction or not is the first question. But the other thing is that it's also your one of your primary pacing tools because if you're, you know, um more if you set a more conservative ROAS target or more aggressive ROAS target, this is gonna change how aggressively your campaign behaves. Because it's not like the days with um, you know, the good old-fashioned days of of manual bidding and all that kind of stuff. We can no longer uh directly set or influence the bid. So our way of doing that is by changing the ROWS target. ROWAS became basically a proxy for the bid. Exactly. So now it's both supposed to be a proxy for your business model and a proxy for the bid. And this is this discrepancy because people fiddle with the ROAS um or don't, as in the case you described where they have a flat one, but people are often fiddling with the ROS, using it as a thermostat to pace their campaigns. But on the other hand, they want the campaign to hit a certain goal. And this is the challenge.

Why setting the exact same ROAS for every campaign is a mistake

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah. And that that's why I said that no one talked to to the poor ROAS, uh, because this thing is transforming into a very complex identity. Yes, it's it's a lot right now. But yeah, uh people have ha ha they have to deal with the fact that if you treat ROAS as as let alone the proxy for your profit, that itself is an issue. But if you treat it as only your North Star and you don't see it as this communication communication vessel with with Google, you you are missing out on a big leverage. Exactly. And by the way, one one one thing, Mike, I would like to add here is uh because this is the next discussion, which is not directly tied to Aurora's KPI itself, but how you you worked with Aurora's. I still see that again across the board, small to big retailers, I see seven out of ten uh uh online retailers if they even uh try to be dynamic with the ROAS setting, they do it uh gut feeling based. Yeah, yeah. Which is uh be again beyond my my thinking. Why why there why don't you have a a scientific basic approach based approach, right? What we do with with with with our platform. No sales show here, but uh everything is at least as a certain set of risks. A lot of people do it gut-based. Yeah, okay, my campaign is performing well. I I I I don't get it. It it's really something which drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah, I I hear I hear you. And you know, Google is also they're working on their own um kind of target ROAS recommendations and budget recommendations. We've mythbusted them a bit in the past as well. I can't remember. Yeah. But uh it's definitely a challenge. I mean, in the end, what you want to be able to do is make sure that your campaigns taken together are achieving an account level goal so that you can have that directional guidance of ROAS.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Which should be somewhat stable, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Exactly. But then at that sub-account level, you need to be able to have flexibility with your budgets and your ROAS targets.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Maybe we can achieve promotion officers. Maybe we have it right there. Because basically the ROAS should be the North Star on, let's say, account level, right? But once you try to steer your campaigns, yeah, where you put some thought into it, how to separate them and there are reasons why you separate them. Let's let's let's work with the ROWAS. Yeah. Again, it's a proxy for the CPC. You want to treat the campaigns differently. So yeah, ROAS, man, I'm I'm I'm a big fan, but it's it's it's uh it it became a complex thing. Absolutely. Uh um but a great myth. And um what's a it's a great topic.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

For sure. Let's move on to uh our next topic. And actually, I mean I think we can keep it pretty pretty concise because we're well, at least on one of these, I'm working on some data for next episode.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

No same for you. Yeah. Uh but I I know what you're working on. I'm really curious about this. Anyway, let's talk about the move. Yeah. P-Max is a black box. It's the black hole.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah. I I, by the way, I mean, I was I I called uh back in 2020 or 2019, I called smart shopping uh I said it's not it's not a black box campaign type, it is a black hole. And uh yeah, I you know I'm But you were right back then. This was absolutely the case back then, and it's and no technology was more opaque or intransparent than smart shopping. Uh PMAX has actually from for a long time now been improving on that. But I think um it still comes up all the time. And I I'm actually, you know, we're uh working on this PPC survey together with a bunch of partners. Uh check it out, ppcsurvey.com. I don't think the results will be live by the time you're listening to this, but it'll be coming soon. And um definitely people still complain that there's no transparency in PMAX and that's a black box. First impression bias, because it was black box in the beginning. Um it's like, okay, let's adjust our attitudes a little bit because uh just a little bit. Yeah, I think we do at a certain point need to give credit to Google where credit is due. Google, um here is credit.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah. Carla, if you're listening.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Our good friend Carla, um uh our Google partner manager, uh doing a great job. No, uh uh credit where where credit is due. Yeah. By the way, fun fun stuff. I had um it was rather late and I was already at home. I had a phone call with a client and we uh complaining about whatever, and my my son was listening, and my son is very much into into astrophysics. He's four and a half years old, but he loves stars. Sure, sure. And uh I don't know why, but we talked about uh black uh a black box, right? Like a black hole. Okay. And he heard it and he thought. And I said, black hole, why? Yeah, is it your dad your job is way cooler than I thought it was. No, no, I was talking about the campaign type.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Um but hold on, we'll get back on topic. But um do you know about Planet X? No, but is it a YouTube channel or what it's uh it's uh uh theorized additional planet. They think there might be another planet hidden in the solar system that we don't know about.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

And you have to check out Pon 618. It's that it's a supermassive black hole. All right. Which have one which is off the charts. It's it's but yeah. It's not a black hole. PMAX has become a great campaign time.

Myth #5: Performance Max (PMax) is a Black Box

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Exactly. So one astrophysics session. Yeah, we'll do one. That'll be n that'll be this year's Christmas episode. I have enough knowledge uh to make a fool out of myself. Well I'm just saying my my son was obsessed with Planet X at that age, so yeah, awesome. Um I think he'll I think he'll love it. So um yeah, so back on topic. Back on topic. So yeah, I mean uh this has been ongoing, as I said, for quite some time. And at this point, you know, some of the big um criticisms of PMAX were uh it is this cross-channel campaign type, okay, but we have no visibility into those channels or ad networks where PMAX is serving. Um search terms. Exactly. It's keywordless. Yes. All right, but at least let us know. You know, and it's also it's fully handling the um the audience and and the website placements, um, and at least let us see that. And so with basically all of these topics but one, Google has done a great job. Yeah. Done a great job, I have to say.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

So let's be precise here. We uh what the the the the the biggest needle movers are uh without going too much into detail, but you have the the the the channel distribution channel performance report. Yeah, and that's the newest of these and and also it it's it has its its flaws. Yeah. By the way, should should we should we show a slide here for for channel uh channel distribution script? Yeah, it can be.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah, we by the way, we have some scripts and tools that we've built on some of these new reports to help.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Um it's for free and it's it's uh this channel inside report on on steroids. So it's really yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

So the data the data is available. Sorry, one secret. Google makes this data available, but it's actually still uh they're not good at turning that data into information. It's it's flawed. Yeah, our job to derive information and actions out of these things.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

But but Google uh uh signaled clearly that it's important to listen to the market and you have this data available. Then the search term report, right? Also now connectable directly via API. Yeah. You can do a lot of crazy, crazy things with that.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, exactly. The the search terms uh they can generate lots and lots of rows of data. Um it's a very heavy report, so the user interface is not a very good place to work with your search terms. It's better to use a tool for that.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yes. But again, the data is about it. But the data is there. And you can do things with it. This this this is the cool things. I I think we we're moving into a place again. And by the way, we I think we had uh certainly one episode where we compared smart shopping versus uh with versus PMEX. Smart shopping was uh wasn't good.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

It was a garbage product.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

It was a garbage product. And you it you were literally forced to play a standardized game and there were were hardly any chances to to differentiate yourself against your competition by being smarter. Yeah. And PMEX enables you now to really be the smart kid on the block again. Uh and I I I love it. I I really love it.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

That yeah, you know, I I had to really swallow my pride when like because smart shopping, it was just a such a poorly designed product, and it became very popular anyway, which was yeah, really dis you know, not encouraging, let's say. Um, but with PMAX, you know, I think we also, not just me, but we as a company were like, all right, well, we see people are gonna work with this technology anyway, so let's help them do it.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Of course.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

But you know, now PMAX is at the point where it's not a dirty word anymore.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Um I I we we we openly recommend it as as as as a future-proof campaign type. And again, uh if you do it correctly, you can be significantly better than your competition. Yeah. That's what I love, because that's why we exist. We as a company, the experts listening to us, you want to be smart, and and Google enables you to do to do crazy intelligent shit again. I mean, placement report.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Exactly. Yeah.

How Google fixed PMax: Channel reports and Search Terms

SPEAKER_00 24:49

This is something with this this is emotionally. The placements are important what you're yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

And I'm gonna uh like yeah, we'll talk about this more in the future, but because it's not all sunshine and roses, but at least we can see that. See something there, yeah. Yeah. So we we can see um the websites and apps and YouTube channels and videos where our ads are being placed. And that's important because you should just know where your ads are showing up.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Um we've also a great script here. Yeah, we should also show this slide.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Why not? We opened the flap gates now. Gonna put it on, gonna put it on. So yeah, if you're if you're if you're watching this on YouTube, or actually, I think we're we now have video on Spotify. Video should be coming to Apple soon in the future too. So very exciting. But And if you're only listening, it's really worth noting. If you're only listening, you know what? Google search still works. You can Google for Smack or Smarter e-commerce script. And get the scripts. You'll find them.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

You'll find them. But they are really helpful. But back to the topic. Um, so all Mike, um, we we can certainly I think constitute that Google has listened to the market. Yeah. I think we can also say that they have listened to us to a certain degree. Yes. Uh, because we we are we are an important partner for Google and we appreciate the open conversations we have we have we have with them. And they did some significant changes. That's it. And I love it. Yes, uh on on the final note, Mike, um, because I think I think we discussed this as well, um for sure that the the the the possibilities, the more possibilities you get, again the more complex this whole thing will be, right? Yes. Um that's true. Yeah, that that is, yes, yes. So this is probably the only downside that that you have to if if you want to to untap these these features or these these new data points, the complexity increases.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah. I mean, but I think for a lot of people that's actually welcome news. I mean, I think there's this a paradox with PMAX where it it at a purely functional level, it was simpler to use, but it was harder to succeed. That's true. And now with the additional insights and complexity that's possible, um, it does, it gives it opens up some more differentiation space. Because if you can put in that work, and if you do put in that work, you can differentiate more. But, you know, it the transparency is a bit ahead of the controls. In some cases, the control, you know, there's for search term reporting, there's negative keywording. For placements, there are exclusions. But what the kind of elephant in the room is for um is is for the the channel reporting. There's actually nothing that you can really do there. And the one area where they haven't offered a lot, like you can do now certain demographic exclusions, but they don't give you demographic reporting. So that's there's still some work to be done. But we are in such a better place than we were three years ago. Let's appreciate this. Yeah. Let's appreciate We're gonna we're we could say some criticism, but okay. I know some Google PMs listen to this podcast too and stuff. Listen, here it's not often we say it, but here's to you. Thank you for listening and thank you for making these changes.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Thank you very much. And let's end this episode on this awesome high note.

Placement Insights And Competitive Differentiation

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Okay. It's you know, we usually somehow find our way down to a low point and we're like, well, this is awkward, yes, but we're ending on a rare high note and a tip of the hat to Google. Today is what is it, 1019?

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Yeah. Yes, let let's let's mark this down. Put that in your calendars. Utterly positive episode. Yeah, nothing to complain about. All right. Stage is yours.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

So having said that, I think we're at our time box. So thank you so much for giving us your time and attention, everyone listening here. This has been another episode of Growing E-Commerce brought to you by Smarter Ecommerce, also known as SMEC. You can learn more as always at smarter ecommerce.com. And again, if you like this podcast, please give us a shout out on social media. Give us a review or a rating on your podcast platform. We really appreciate it.