Growing Ecommerce – The Retail Growth Podcast

OpenAI’s $25 BILLION Loss – is Agentic Shopping Dead?

• Smarter Ecommerce • Season 4 • Episode 31

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 31:23

OpenAI is facing a projected $25 billion shortfall, and their attempt to monetize ecommerce is already falling apart.
In this episode of Growing Ecommerce, Mike Ryan and Chris Scharmüller ask the billion-dollar question: Is the dream of "agentic commerce" already dead on arrival? 
While the media celebrates OpenAI's early $100 million in ad revenue, the math tells a much darker story. Their projected 2026 burn rate sits between $14 and $25 billion. To survive, they need a massive, highly profitable ad network—but their recent retail experiments are failing the test.
We break down why ChatGPT quietly killed off its new "Shopping Research" feature (hint: consumers won't wait minutes for an AI to fetch product recommendations). We also reveal the shocking data from Walmart’s early checkout test within ChatGPT, where in-app conversions were three times lower than standard website traffic.
If ChatGPT wants to steal budget from Google Ads and Meta, they have to prove they can actually drive profitable sales. Right now, the data suggests users simply aren't ready to let an AI agent do their shopping.

Key Takeaways & SEO Insights:

  • The Revenue Reality: Generating $100M in two months is impressive, but with Capital Expenditures (CapEx) skyrocketing to compete with Google and Microsoft, OpenAI's projected losses are staggering. Advertising is their most obvious path to close that gap.
  • Speed vs. Quality in E-commerce: OpenAI shut down its specialized post-trained shopping model because generating deep product analyses took too long. In retail, friction kills adoption.
  • The Conversion Crisis: Early tests with major retailers like Walmart showed that instant checkouts within ChatGPT converted at a rate 3x lower than traditional website traffic. If they can't drive efficiency, advertisers won't shift their budgets.
  • The Scraping Band-Aid: OpenAI's reliance on scraping Google Shopping data for product recommendations shows they are still heavily dependent on their biggest competitor to power their agentic commerce dreams.

Resources & Links:

About Smarter Ecommerce (smec):

Smarter Ecommerce (smec) empowers e-commerce brands with AI-driven PPC automation that optimizes for profit and business outcomes while maintaining strategic control.

The platform activates first-party data - profit margins, customer lifetime value, and key business metrics - to automate campaign optimization toward goals like profitability and efficient growth, while detailed campaign insights provide full transparency and enable PPC teams to focus on strategic oversight rather than manual execution.

As a Google Premier Partner and three-time Microsoft Retail Partner of the Year, smec manages over €500 million in ad spend and drives €5B+ in annual e-commerce revenue for 350+ global retail clients including THG, Snipes, REWE, and Intersport.

Make sure to follow smec - Smarter Ecommerce for more performance marketing insights:

smec - Smarter Ecommerce: https://www.smarter-ecommerce.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/smarter-ecommerce-gmbh
Newsletter: https://smarter-ecommerce.com/en/newsletter/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smarterecommerce/



Intro: Do we still believe the Sam Altman hype?

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to another episode of Growing E-Commerce. I'm one of your hosts, Mike Ryan. Chris is also here. The other one of the Hello Sir. Hey, so we've got a pretty big episode for you today. We're mostly going to be talking about OpenAI and ChatGPT. We'll be talking about ads in ChatGPT. The first revenue figures have come out. We'll be talking about ChatGPT killing another e-commerce feature, another one already. And of course, we have some uh behind the look, behind the scenes look at why they killed the last one, too. So it's gonna be an interesting episode. Stick with us.

The $100M Illusion: Analyzing OpenAI's Ad Revenue

SPEAKER_00

I would stick uh with us for sure. I mean, uh how how what about our Sam Altman fan club now? Do we do we do we jump ship or have we ever been on it? What Sam Altman fan club? I'm not a member. I'm not a member. Me neither. Me neither. But uh regular listeners will know that. So talking about Sam Altman and OpenI, Mike, yeah, the revenue numbers are out for their ads business, and the numbers look super straw, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01

I guess it's a matter of perspective. It's a it's a um burn rate half full or burn rate half empty kind of situation.

SPEAKER_00

Let's talk about the numbers, Mike. What what are they telling us?

SPEAKER_01

Um so they hit 100 million ARR, that's annual recurring revenue in case you're not in with the Silicon Valley buzz words uh or buzz acronyms within two months. Um Wow. I mean, I I am an asshole for laughing at that because that's very impressive. That's a huge amount of money.

SPEAKER_00

My my wow was also rather rather um not that seriously because the the numbers look great, face value. Yeah, but I think it's really more about than ever to really put this this whole thing in perspective. Yeah. Right. Did did OpenAI share any anything beyond that? I mean, uh uh they probably framed the shit out of this this 100 million ARR, right? They are positive about it, it's easier to check, trim, and so forth.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I mean a hundred million in two months is an incredible number by many benchmarks. And uh, but like I I guess the question is that's how big it is right now. And the question is how big could it get? Yes. Um that's what everyone's wondering, and probably including themselves. Um and the directional hints that we got from that, I'm getting these numbers through CNBC. Uh but they reported that 85% of US users are eligible to see ads. Um so they're in the freemium, it's like the this free model or the Go subscription, one of these ones. Um and less than 20% are seeing ads on a daily basis, according to OpenAI. And uh yeah, that's a blurry number for me personally.

The Reality Check: OpenAI's $15-$25 Billion Projected Burn Rate

SPEAKER_00

That's super blurry. Um but I mean look, but going back to this 100 million AR, I mean, can you imagine how many companies would would die for for for having this in my hands? Um here here too. I mean, creating one uh a run rate a yearly AR, uh a run rate for of 100 million. Um analyze this is just amazing within two months. Yeah but to put this in perspective, I would encourage everyone to understand how much money is behind this 100 million AR. And I'm talking about money invested, right? And uh I mean I don't know, I just dig into to some numbers to get also a feeling for this 100 million MR AR because I was stunned, honestly, after two months. You know, we talked about Walmart and there were a lot of negative indications going on, yeah. And still 100 million AR. So well done. But if look at the burn rates uh of OpenAI for the year 2025, roughly 9 billion. Projected burn rate annualized, projected burn rate for 2026 is 14 to 25 billion of revenue. So these are the burn rates this this company has. And um why does 100 million AR make a lot of sense uh or maybe don't make a lot of sense now? Because what is the path to close this burn rate, right? This is the question we we have been talking about a lot of times. And the 100 million AR are not going to make it, of course. Yeah, and the trajectory needed to burn fifth 14 to 25 billion burn rate in 2026. I think this trajectory is not there. And this is why I'm I'm rather, I don't know, negative and hesitant about I don't know, to to celebrate these numbers big time like some some media outlets did, because look look at the burn rates they have to cover. Yeah, yeah. One million AR is is nothing as crazy as it sounds.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, and I mean we've looked at uh the from leaked slide decks and stuff in the past, their their breakdowns of where they expect ads to go and um what percentage of that. Like that's one revenue stream among others. They they still, Sam is a big fan of subscriptions. Um Commerce, we'll talk about it in a minute, what's going on with that? But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of pressure on advertising here, and it's not like they can um necessarily just uh cut costs if they want to or something like that, because uh a lot like they need more money coming in. A lot of that money coming in um is in exchange for contracted compute values and stuff like that. And shout out to NMEDia, well done here. Yeah, exactly. So they're really, I feel like they're they have a fish hook in their mouth or something, or their hand is in a is in a bear trap.

Are Users Actually Seeing Ads on ChatGPT?

SPEAKER_00

Like you you uh and uh it it is because if you if you look at the capital expensive of expenses of of big competitors like Microsoft, Google and so forth, um I I think there's no way to to reduce costs. They are playing a game where cost reduction is is not not part of it. It's not part of the rules. Yeah. And again, I know they have different revenue streams, but advertising is one major, from my perspective, my humble opinion is advertising is the one path, the one of the major paths to close this memory, to make this profitable profitable at one point of time. So that's why I'm like two months, one a million AR. Look, they had all the buzz in the world, all the momentum in the world. Um won a million AR, great, but let's put it in perspective. Uh there is such a way long way to go still. It's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01

I I mean to like so let's just talk about some of these other numbers for a sec. 20% of users are seeing ads on a daily basis. I I don't know exactly what that means because is that the same 20%? Yes. Is it there is is there like some kind of a split here? Are there people who are being exposed and people not, or is it a rotating 20%? And what what's behind that daily basis? Like, is the platform limiting frequency or exposure somehow? Are you still testing? Yeah. Is it is it because there's just not that many daily active users? I don't I'd love to understand this in a meaningful level because I think it's not meaningful what's available right now. Um the other thing, you know, they did mention that they're because something that they look at is this kind of privacy or trust um benchmarks as well. They say that this is not um so far negatively negatively impacting people's perception of privacy or trust, which is very important. That's a huge concern that they have. Um and the question is, you know, all does all this stuff hold at at scale? Um what happens, you know, what do you need to do with frequency in order to generate revenue or in order to generate marketing outcomes for the advertisers? What needs to happen there? And at what point is there some kind of an inflection point with trust or privacy concerns there? How will that play out? Um is 85% of US users are monetizable? I don't know how that compares to other markets. I d I also don't know exactly like I saw I don't know how much of their user base is US. It's at I think some people say around 20%. But yeah. Um But you know, where does this how does this extrapolate? It's could it be greater than a billion if they would go all in? I've seen some estimates that way.

SPEAKER_00

But again, a billion AR with a with a with a burn rate of I mean look, we I I I don't know how much you can trust the numbers here, but let let's assume they have a billion uh a burn rate uh uh north of 10 billion a year. Yeah. One million AR, I I I I don't know. Because again, the the capex for this company won't be won won't won't look different the next couple of years because competition forces them to spend shitloads of money into their models. So again, even the one one billion AR, they need other revenue streams to make this profitable at one point of time. And Mike, let's do some some some some some some math here. Uh 20%. Let's assume so if they they scale this, they fully scale this now. What does that mean? They they show ads to 100% of the users. So what would that do to the revenue? Is it uh a point four point five X or whatever? Let's assume it is. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, then you'll have it. So what what what leverages do they have to really make this the two, three, four, five billion uh run rate? Uh AR? Yeah. Is it to have more product shown there to to increase the active activity of the users? And one other limiting factor I see, Mike, uh before I hand over to you, is how big of a share uh of transactional search queries they have in the first place? So how are people using chat GPD? Yeah. And we did some some research on that, right? It's roughly five to six percent of all the search queries are literally transactional in one way, shape, or form. So I think this is also a massively limiting factor for for ChatGPD.

The B2B Challenge: Why Advertisers Are Skeptical

SPEAKER_01

I I agree with you on that, uh, but I think they can mitigate that because there's they they can do this a couple of different ways, or they can try to at least, um, because they can use it in that classic um Google keyword-like way where they're they're matching what people are talking about on somehow commercially relevant stuff. They can also just use Chat GPT as a display surface, and they can use it more like a social feed and just push ads as well. Okay. Fair enough. So rather in the upper mid-funnel. Yeah. Yeah, they can push contextual ads or stuff like that. So I think that they have room to shape the product and try that out. Um and we'll see ultimately where they go. But we've only been talking about one half of the marketplace so far, like talking about these daily active users and stuff like that. The other part is the advertisers. Yes. Because like they've had they've had massive success already in building up a huge consumer audience, and that's what makes us attractive. Shout out to them. So yeah, that that's great, but that's half of the challenge. Now they need to onboard spend there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um and you know, with And you need the big advertisers first, because the market is more consolidated than ever. So you need them Walmarts and and coal, right? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, and that's the Yeah, we'll talk about Walmart, I guess. But yeah, but they need you I think it's a lot slower to um build out that side of the marketplace because that is then that's this B2B side. And it has a different dynamic than the virality that occurred on the B2C side. Check this out. People were amazed by this product. It looks like magic. It just it just writes the stuff for you. It was astonishing at the time. It was a new category. But the the question is, is like, okay, its use case to consumers is astonishing. Is its use case to advertisers astonishing? Yes. Because that's what advertisers need, astonishing measurement or astonishing performance. Or they need to have the feeling that this is an audience that they're not already reaching on Google or Meta or elsewhere that's even incremental. Because if you're already reaching all these people, why shouldn't for sure. It's it's just so they have a huge case to prove. And that's what's going to prevent this. You know, this is not overnight gonna become a 20 billion um revenue. For sure.

SPEAKER_00

So circling back to all the statements we we basically already shared in in on on stage here and and in in in this podcast. As a matter of fact, it's not that easy to build an ad network. No. Uh it's just not that easy. You can have the greatest product in the world, and let's face it, ChatGPD really they they created a new category. Shout out to them. And and I use ChatGPD, it's great. But from a retailer perspective, as you said, I I would have two reasons to jump on ChatGPD. Reason A is it gives me better performance than Google, Microsoft, Insta, and Co. Yeah. Or I reach incremental users. And I might even accept a lower return on ad spend, but it it's driving incremental revenue. But if these two checkboxes can't be ticked, uh ChatGPD will be an in for you. Very, very tough game.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because why why should I go there?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um so I think this this is what what they have to tackle. And I think this is not an easy, easy puzzle to solve because the ad market it's it's a bloodbath. And you have one player which is just dominating the scene.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It starts with Qi. Absolutely. And we looked at uh in the PPC survey results that we talked about a couple episodes back. Um we see that most advertisers are continuing, they plan to spend more on Google and more on Meta. And these all these um secondary and tertiary ad marketplaces struggling. They're at, you know, staying flat can even be a good outcome for some of these. Um and so you know, I think OpenAI, it's new. It has certainly a a leg up from a sales standpoint on something like Snapchat, a bit of a failed social ad platform. They're in a better position than that. Uh, but they still they're gonna need to make a case and fight for either on-top budgets or a share of existing budgets.

SPEAKER_00

And I I just see the sh the shareholder pressure mounting. I mean, in at least indirectly uh with Microsoft. But man, we talked about Walmart, but before we want to talk about a feature they killed off.

Feature Killer: Why ChatGPT Abandoned "Shopping Research"

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, let's start let's switch over from ads to commerce. Um so open AI open AI killed off another commerce feature, yes. And uh this was their shopping research model.

SPEAKER_00

Um and the feature had I think the purpose of this feature was a very, very good one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, I think so too. I mean, the the idea was that people were people were searching for product suggestions, product advice, whatever in Chat GPT, and the results were not that great, not that relevant, et cetera. And um the idea of this was that they would post-train a model uh specifically for shopping research, shopping tasks, things like that. It just if you're not up to speed with uh with the all the buzzwords out there, post-training is you could think of it like I like to always make comparisons to the way humans learn. Um there's probably all this uh pre-training and stuff like that. The foundation model is like a lot of that's contained basically in our DNA, um, in our evolution, in our genetic memory, the structure of our brain, whatever. Um but we still need to go to school. Um so we come with a huge amount of innate knowledge, we learn a lot in our first years and stuff like that. But then for a specialized task, you might need to even go to university or a master's degree. So this is a bit like ChatGPT sending their model to college for shopping. For shopping. Um shopping colleagues. That's what yeah, that's what the post-training is like. And the the outcome of that, they said that that the suggestions were like twice as relevant and accurate. So that's great. Um way more in-depth. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, the behavior of the model was a lot different here. So it was more similar to one of their research ones. It would look at um, you know, at least 10 times as many websites. It was doing more than just scraping Google Shopping. Um imagine that they did something besides scrape Google Shopping. Uh, but yeah, they scraped the rest of the internet. Um so you know, it but it could potentially look at hundreds of individual web pages like product landing pages and across dozens of different um sites, like uh domains. And uh the thing is that that takes time. And um, that time was killing adoption. Yeah, exactly. Um so our a friend of the podcast, Joe of Market Pl pay uh marketplace pulse fame, um, you know, he he wrote about this on LinkedIn and he gave an example, and it took um you know it took minutes to get and it ultimately delivers a personalized report. And I don't know if like a a report is what that's still not a good e-commerce experience. That's not necessarily what users even want. Um and but yeah, OpenAI's own commerce product leads where like people are only willing to wait a couple of seconds. And so in that case, the trade-off doesn't work. It's better for them to get worse results, and uh but it's faster. Um this is actually better for for what the users want in the end, and which is just fascinating how that shakes out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's interesting is because from my perspective, um that that in-depth rich analysis for for for for my purchasing uh journey, especially when I'm looking for let's say high-priced products, I think the idea is a great one because that's where I think Chat GPT could have maybe some advantages over others. Um so I I still like the idea, but again, the time issue is is a real one. Because I mean, let's face it, we we talked about that, right? Time is is is one of the most scarce resources, even if you have it. You just you do you just don't want to wait in these days. Yeah, and um uh unfortunately, I mean what I what I'm very very curious about is I mean, probably they had they had a ton of engagement metrics and they made an informed decision, but what was the main reason why they killed it? Was it because it it led to nowhere? Was it that really people were not adopting it?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I I I stick to my guns here. I I the basic idea is a good one.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh and I think there are certain target groups out there which might even adopt this. Um, do you have any specific reason why they killed it?

SPEAKER_01

Um I I mean not in too much more detail than that. I think the the adoption and engagement were too low. And they blame that on the feature being too slow. Too slow, yeah. So but the you know, there's a chance it it's the way that feature I agree, the idea is not bad, but ultimately the way the feature was packaged and whatever didn't work, the users didn't have the right expectation going into it. And maybe they'll take that work and apply it elsewhere. Yeah. Yeah. But because if you've done this post-training, I think that's something they probably need to do anyway.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, again, I I think not not not the best sign that they they they they kill these features here and there.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it but it shows you also why they have this dependence or why they go to Google Shopping, because Google Shopping can make relevant recommendations instantaneously. Yeah. And so if instead of scraping all these websites and doing a sub-Google job of building a recommendation, they can just scrape Google Shopping and piggyback on that.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Probably I mean, again, I think it's not the not not the best argument for Sam Altman to I don't know, ra raise another couple of billions to be invested just to be at I mean for for the ads revenue, right? To scrape to scrape Google is just so it's it comes across so fishy. And by by the way, man, wouldn't Google be capable of just stopping that in a heartbeat?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't I don't know what technical measure but you know they've taken measures against shopping scrapers in the past. I don't, yeah, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, like the the GTINs are not available on Google Shopping tab anymore, which makes it harder to be able to do it. Class comparison tools, yeah. Here we come. Yeah, exactly. Anyone who the like th they've taken measures in the past to make life harder for shopping scrapers. Um but scraping, it's usually a bit of an arms race. Um and it's also a legal gray zone. Yeah. Uh in most cases. Yeah, like okay, you're clearly violating Google's terms of service, but are you breaking the law? That's something else. And yeah.

The Walmart Disaster: Why In-App Conversions Dropped 3x

SPEAKER_00

Mike, uh this is really a session dedicated to open eye because the last content piece of today is we talked about the advertisers. Uh they have the users, but are they really winning over the advertisers? Not just to use their technology, but to really spend ship truckloads of money on it. Uh and there's some news about Walmart.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, we we heard um and we talked about this a while back, uh, that that Google, excuse me, that OpenAI was already um stopping their instant checkout. And we'll see what they do to iterate on that. There might be new news by the time this episode airs. Uh but um interestingly, you know, Walmart was one of the testers on that. And um Yeah, it was kind of trend venture ish, even, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, even yeah. And uh and but and by the way, you know, OpenAI's goal here was to have a commission model on this. So um, and potentially to insert ads or could be a combination, but at least again, another revenue stream for them, commissions. And Walmart was testing this. They had like 200,000. This was uh reporting from Wired. They had 200,000 products live, and um, some of them were eligible for instant checkout, and some of them like due to higher price or more options or shipping or whatever. Uh uh imagine an expensive item like a TV, I don't know what. This stuff had to go through the website. So either you'd make your purchase there in ChatGPT or you'd click out to Walmart's website. Now, in principle, you should have a higher conversion rate in Chat GPT, right? Isn't that the sense of it? You're there, you're in the user interface. No shitty websites. It's saving you a visit, right? To some other one-stop shop, right? And Walmart was like, what the fuck? The the conversion rates are three times lower in chat GPT than when they click out to our website. It's fascinating. And that even though it has a whole extra step. It's fascinating. Yeah, it is. And they quit. And very bash. Yeah, and they said the test is over. And and so why if they like it's not a good sign at all for the quality of the experience, and then that you want to monetize it with commissions feels very shaky at that point.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. I mean, look, the the the commissions wouldn't be even the the the Because I think the reason why this didn't work is because the the consumer, the mics and Chris's and and uh all the average shows out there just said, look, it's it's it's a shitty experience, I assume. It's not working for me. Um and and this might be very telling for you know, we we talked about this future of e-commerce, right? That the the that all the big platforms will aim to to install this zero-click event, this in-chat purchase. Yeah because it opens new revenue streams and they have more control over the customer track. They get more data. But this is for me the first rather representative test. Walmart is a massive big brand. I think they were very, very um precise with regards to okay, which products are part of this test. So I I I didn't I don't think that they put shitty products in this test. I assume they were serious about it because they had a kind of a joint venture relationship with OpenR. And it completely failed. 3x lower. I mean, we you just said it like it's it's a 3x lower. You imagine what one of our clients would say to us. It's it's it's beyond so it's it's very telling, and I think um more more details hopefully will come out. Yes. I would really be super interested in what was the main reason. Yeah. Yeah. Because if if the end consumer is not adopting this in-chat uh uh purchasing option, yeah. I mean Yeah, I mean it's a it's a warning sign like I think to others.

Is the "Agentic Commerce" Revolution Already Dead?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like Google and Google. They've got to do it better. Was this what what was this about? Was it uh you know, was it bad user like user interface design? Was it a trusting? What was it all about? They've got to get to the bottom. Maybe a combination of it. And it's easy, you know. I have uh an unendless amount of Schadenfreude for um OpenAI and Sam Altman, and I my by I'm acknowledging my bias here. Um This is the dark side of of Mike Ryan, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. I I have a I think I have a reputation for being pretty like low-key and and stuff like that. But I I I also dark places with that company. Um but um but it's you know it's too early to be kind of um, you know, I not not not taking a victory lap, but or declaring that this that this is over, that agentic is over, either for them or more broadly. I've also, by the way, I've been kind of a bear on this podcast as well about agentic commerce in general. I think AI-assisted commerce makes a lot of sense. Whether all this agenc stuff will play out the way people imagine, I'm not sure about. It will at least take way longer than a lot of people expect. Yeah. But um but I mean, still, it's very early days here. Um I think OpenAI learned some costly lessons here. Everyone learned lessons. Um and we have to see what's gonna come next because it it's also unrealistic to expect that this stuff would perform in so well. And that that was the hype. The hype was that this is gonna be it works instantly and then this is the this new intent layer, yeah, stuff like that. You know, that's some truth to that, but it doesn't mean that it's just an instant unlock.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And look, I mean, um I I can tell from from all the conversations we have with our clients. And the numbers back it somehow. You you can see that the trajectory um chat GPD referrals have for our clients, for the for the for the clients we work with. So there is volume, but at the end of the day, the clients look very, of course, very closely at the numbers in detail. Yeah what does this traffic bring to my top and bottom line? And the top line might be incremental, which is fine, but if the bottom line line is not meeting some of the expectations of our clients, I think chat and and look, and and clients will take decisions here. There might be a lot of hype going on with ChatGPD, but if my conversion rate is 50% lower compared to other channels, yeah, and I have limited budgets, and I don't fuck around. I mean, look, I I will move my budget away from ChatGPT and spend it otherwise, otherwise, um in other places. And one thing, Mike, which I believe in, is and I know our clients, and we have a a huge client base, and we we have talked to a lot of leads as well. If if a channel, if if a client is testing a channel, then it's not working, it's hard to get them again down the line. This is the the if I would be somewhere involved in in this product strategic decisions, is I would be very, very careful with the rollout of these new features because if the channel is not working and the client is gone for good, it's hard to bring them back. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Uh uh whether it's happening in the name of ChatGPD, whether you have your agencies trying to bring them back, it's hard. The level of scrutiny will be so much hiring. It's it's so yeah. I mean, look, I uh I don't like Sam Altman and he doesn't give a flying fuck about me, rightfully so. He has accomplished a lot of things in his life, no doubt about that. Of course. But he's he's he hasn't ever been open and and and fair about about the whole ad relevance to the business. I mean there was this one statement where uh he called it some number of dimes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, not number of dimes.

SPEAKER_00

Buddy, hopefully it will be more than dimes because else you are you're fine.

SPEAKER_01

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

SPEAKER_00

If you want some number of dimes, you're gonna get some number of dimes. Here you go, buddy. All jokes aside. So I'm not a big fan of him as a person, but I would love ChatGPD to really to really be part of this revolutionary new ads dynamic going on. I think it would be good for everyone. I don't know. I think they have a lot of a lot of obstacles ahead of them.

Retailers Fight Back: Walmart Puts Its Own Chatbot Inside ChatGPT

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And uh I'll just wrap it up with a little footnote to this Walmart story, which is that um at least the time of recording, this stuff changes fast. But the last thing that I heard about this is that Walmart is planning to embed their own chatbot, Sparky, inside of ChatGPT. And so this is really adding into the channel. Yeah. It's like because I mean it just says that ChatGPT has as a product has no value to Walmart. The only thing they care about is the users. They're gonna replace the product with their product functionally. And but I mean there are reasons why too. Like that because we've talked about first-party data. The platforms want it, the retailers want it. And right now, Walmart has that. And so Sparky is connected to their first party inventory data, it's connected to their first party audience data. And that that experience is going to be much more richer and trigger warning Sam Altman personalized than what's going on inside of like, you know, uh okay, they talk about memory there too. They're not entirely enemies of personalization, but w Walmart has that already. They have that asset. They don't need to build it up or fake it or guess it.

SPEAKER_00

They have it. Yes. So and and from a product strategic perspective, if the only thing I can offer uh is a user base, which uh face value is not not bad. I mean, if if you have user. It's an asset. It's an asset, but it's not a 24 billion burn rate asset. That that's the thing. And what is your product strategy around it?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um anyway, I wish Sam all the best. Again, he doesn't need my wishes for sure, but I want ChatGPD to to strive. I it will be good for everyone. Um, because the more pressure there is on Google, the the even even better they will get, which again is good for everyone.

SPEAKER_01

I I I hope he proves me wrong. I really do. Um or maybe someone else. Let's see how long. I I love to be proven wrong. I have no ego about that. Please prove me wrong. Yes. But let's leave it on that note. Attended on the high notes. Yeah. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks everyone for listening. This has been another episode of Growing E-Commerce, brought to you as always by Smarter E-Commerce, also known as SMEC. To learn more, you can visit Smarter-ecommerce.com. And as always, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a shout out on social media. Um, recommend us to a friend. Give us a star or five star rating, I should say. Yes. Rather five five stars than one star. Oh no, I'm gonna get some number of dimes. Set fulfilling processes. Yeah, give us at least five stars on your podcast platform of choice. Thanks, and we'll see you next time.