Growing Ecommerce – The Retail Growth Podcast

Google's AI Now Picks Which Product You Sell | Plus: ChatGPT Shopping Ads Arrive Too

• Smarter Ecommerce • Season 4 • Episode 41

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Google's new AI-powered Shopping ads can now decide which of your products wins the click — and it's optimizing for the user, not for your margin, your brand, or your strategy. This Gemini-built format writes its own product descriptions and may re-rank which product gets shown, beyond your bid. Mike Ryan and Chris dig into what that means for retailers who suddenly have less control over what gets pushed. Plus: ChatGPT is finally bringing Product Listing Ads (PLAs) to its results — a solid first step, or a Bing-style copycat play?

The real story: "more relevant to the user" is not the same as "best for the retailer." As automated channels get more aggressive at matching products to searches, advertisers risk quietly losing control of which products actually get sold.

In this episode:

→ What Google's AI-powered Shopping ads actually are — a new format inside AI Max for Shopping, not an umbrella term 
→ "Intelligent product identification": how Gemini may re-rank which product is shown, beyond the bid 
→ The retailer's blind spot — Google optimizes for click-through rate; you optimize for the business 
→ The coffee-machine problem: when the highest-converting product isn't the one you need to sell 
→ Why the best Google Ads outcome isn't always the best business outcome 
→ ChatGPT's PLAs: a solid, feed-based first step — or a Bing-style copycat play? 
→ What OpenAI's $100B ad ambition means for what comes next

The throughline: AI executes, but only you know what your business needs to achieve. The retailers who win are the ones who keep translating business goals — margin, brand priority, profitability — into the channel, instead of letting the platform decide.

📌 Growing Ecommerce is brought to you by smec (Smarter Ecommerce). We help ecommerce brands move from platform-driven to business-driven PPC — combining AI-powered software with human expertise to optimize Google Shopping and Performance Max toward real business goals.

🔗 Learn more: https://www.smarter-ecommerce.com 🎧 

Subscribe so you don't miss an episode — and if this was useful, a comment or a share genuinely helps.

#GrowingEcommerce #ChatGPTShoppingAds #GoogleAds #ShoppingAds #PerformanceMax #PMax #PPC #Ecommerce #GoogleShopping #PaidSearch #RetailMedia #smec



About Smarter Ecommerce (smec):

Smarter Ecommerce (smec) empowers e-commerce brands with AI-driven PPC automation that optimizes for profit and business outcomes while maintaining strategic control.

The platform activates first-party data - profit margins, customer lifetime value, and key business metrics - to automate campaign optimization toward goals like profitability and efficient growth, while detailed campaign insights provide full transparency and enable PPC teams to focus on strategic oversight rather than manual execution.

As a Google Premier Partner and three-time Microsoft Retail Partner of the Year, smec manages over €500 million in ad spend and drives €5B+ in annual e-commerce revenue for 350+ global retail clients including THG, Snipes, REWE, and Intersport.

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Intro

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to another episode of Growing E-Commerce. I'm one of your hosts, Mike Ryan, and with me as always, Chris. Enjoying a Red Bull.

SPEAKER_00

We talked about that, right?

SPEAKER_01

It's an Austrian product. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

You know what? We're not sponsored. No. Not linked.

SPEAKER_01

We're proud. But speaking of sponsored products, what do you think of that transition? We will be talking about sponsored products. We'll be talking about a major oversight from our GML recap episode a while back, which is AI-powered shopping ads. And it's official, PLA's product listing ads are coming to Chat GPT. So let's dig into it. ChatGPT, yeah. They are on a quite quite a bigger overall, huh? Yeah. They're shipping. They they are. They've they've moved, they've just been every week they have something new. And they moved right on from CPA. Excuse me, CPM to CPC to CPA.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Small steps for ChatGPD, but a big one for Mankind. Yeah. Or the other way around. Okay. Let's start with uh AI-powered shopping ads, right? This is uh is the correct That's what they're called. That's what they're that's what they're called. I think there is a lot to unpack because uh I mean we we have been very, very positive about Google, right? Yeah. Yeah. That they're they're listening to the market. Um and I think they're they're also on a on quite quite of a role. But I think the CI powered shopping ads,

What are Google's AI-Powered Shopping Ads?

SPEAKER_00

not not everything is gold there. At least that's the way I see it. It's shaking things up. It's shaking things up. Maybe Mike, do you want to start with a short explanation what this this thing is?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. So I I actually this is I don't know, you know, there's so much information going through all the time, and I I misunderstood this or kind of overlooked this in the past because we talked a while back about some new AI native ad formats like conversational discovery ads and highlighted answers and how these things are built from your feed using AI Macs for shopping. Um now I thought that AI-powered shopping ads was an umbrella term for these, but it's it's not. It's not. It's another format.

SPEAKER_00

Um, which I think basically is uh a format within AI Max for shopping.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. And it's a format, so it's a format that will appear on Google search. That's almost huge right there. What is this format about? You can think of it like the other native uh formats that they're working on. It's much more text heavy because it's being built with the help of large language models. And Lord knows those things like to those things like to write and spit out spit out lots of words. Um But yeah, so basically, um we can put an example of this on screen for for viewers. Um but basically instead of this standard block of product listing ads, which will be an image, a title, a price, and maybe some other bells and whistles like reviews, whatever. This looks a bit different in that it's gonna have a text block accompanying it that was written by AI. And that text is based on your feed and these conversational attributes that we've talked about in the past, all this good kind of context that you can provide. Um, it's gonna be used to build these new ad units.

SPEAKER_00

So I always love to paraphrase you in in an Eli5 mode, right? Because yeah, no, it's it's I think it it's it's helping me and maybe some listeners who are not that deep into this um shit. Basically, we're we're talking about kind of a shopping ad. Kind of a shopping ad. So there's a picture as as shown on the screen, there's more text, but the the fundamental difference to a classic shopping ad is that the text itself is 100% customized.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's hyper-specific, and I can like uh you know, for people who are not viewing as well, I can um I can read an example here. Yeah, okay, I'll be talking for a minute because it read but the text is long. Yeah. So slim fast start machine using virtual capsules with rich flavor extraction and customizable brew concentrations, e.g., for iced coffee. Heats up in three seconds and makes six cup sizes. And so we're talking about a coffee machine, I guess. Right. We're talking about the Nespresso Virtuo U. No product placement.

SPEAKER_00

So but so this you have the picture, you you have and you have a h uh substantially longer customized text.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. So like in this case, they're showing a picture. There's a very short product title, Nespresso Virtue up. There's a price, there's the brand, Nespresso, there's a there's the the star review and the number of ratings it's based on, and then there's a pin drop for the location where it's available. So there's still a few classic shopping things in there, but then there's all this text instead of like a title.

SPEAKER_00

So so basically the the feature of text customization is is fully used there. Yeah. Uh that the but the the picture is taken directly from the feed, it's not customized. Uh as far as as as far as we know.

SPEAKER_01

As far as I know. I mean you might use AI to help, you know, you might use product studio or whatever to help create that image, but it's gonna draw on a feed image. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um I mean this this itself is is is a substantial change, but I think there's there's there's more to it, right? We we we should discuss uh about it. Because as far as I understand it, um the the classic shopping ad, as we as we fell in love with. Um we talked about it, probably one of the most successful ad formats ever. I think so, yeah. Um hats off to Google there. Uh it brought them a lot of money. But when we when we talk about the classic shopping ad, the the the fundamental technology was uh Google was great at mapping the search term, the thing I was looking for to the best fitting product based on that on the on the on the data feed I provided.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

That was the model, right? And the whole ad rank which decided that which product was shown was not only but massively based on my bid.

SPEAKER_02

For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_00

That's what now when we talk about this AI-powered shopping ads, we believe that there is a fundamental change to that fundamental tech methodology, which product is shown. Right.

How does Gemini decide which product to show?

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. That's that's I mean, I'm just I'm close reading Google's documentation here. I love to close read things, but they're they talk about three features or benefits. Um, intelligent product identification, and that's what we're about to come back to. Expert feature feature summaries. That's that long thing I just read out loud, and then immediate decision confidence, um, which is, you know, the feeling, that warm and fuzzy feeling that the consumer should feel after they read the expert feature summary. I have to click that ad because it's perfectly fit to okay, got it. Exactly. But let's go back. Intelligent product identification. This is very interesting. Google says that this replaces standard product results with a Gemini-powered shopping experience that highlights the most relevant products for your search. And, you know, at first I I think I read that. I I'm just trying to connect the dots here because I was thinking, like, okay, yeah, of course it's Gemini powered. It's writing all this blah, blah, blah. But elsewhere, um, and in more documentation, Google writes, people want to see exactly what they're looking for. Now, Gemini will pull up your most relevant products. And so that to me, intelligent product identification, Gemini will pull up your most relevant products. I think that something is going on. Something is is cooking there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Uh look, I might be wrong. I have been wrong before. Uh you you know that better than anyone else. But if if Google Look, I mean what what Google is aiming at, let's start with that. They are aiming at uh maximizing the click-through rates because the click-through is ultimately uh generating money for them. Yeah. So the question is if the old classic shopping ads would map product A and the new format, the new methodology, which is more chamber powered, is deciding no, actually it's product B, which is the perfect fit for the search term. Um Google will probably have more confidence in product B because it's chamber powered and it's the better fit. Yeah. How can Google then ultimately decide which product will be shown? Because it will certainly not be the case that both products are showing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I I it's a great question. I mean, I think, you know, I think that Google's kind of the situation they find themselves in here is that AI is writing super relevant answers and their ads, if they use the standard the way that they've always been doing matching, their ads are going to be less relevant than the than the context that it's in. And it's you it'll be the last thing that anyone clicks in a case like that. And yeah, I mean, as as you said, like the the bid has always been really important. Um and they they've been matching products and search terms, and I bet they use some form of AI for that. It's not like AI was invented with large language models. There's all kinds of different variations on AI, but but I think now they're bringing the big dog there. They're gonna use Gemini to do that part. And I I don't know what kind of trade-offs they might make or how they're gonna weight this, you know. It's like, okay, is this just replacing if there if if that was a a three-legged table before, the, you know, is this replacing one leg of the table or upgrading one leg or or are they doing kind of what they used to do and adding a layer on top? What is happening here?

SPEAKER_00

Because what what what what I want would like to to to to point towards to is might there be the possibility that the ad rank itself gets uh uh yeah, um uh a layer on top, which is kind of a relevancy, Chemina relevancy layer, which is trumping every everything else. Or which is weighted more than anything else. Because w what I think is Google, of course if if Google believes that this this Chemina powered AI powered shopping ad result creates the higher click rate, yeah, click-through rate, than the classic shopping ads result. Then they want to push the the this this this this this outcome back.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they're a marketplace, they've got a supply of advertisers, they have consumer demands, and that click-through rate is their match rate. They want to match it. And then uh for us, we care about the conversion rate. But you know, like we we were we've been talking, Google shopping has always been it's a pull channel because that fundamentally someone is searching for something, they're expressing some intent. Um, so you can't push a product for intent that is not there. But within that context, you could be more aggressive on for your bidding product A than product B or whatever, and you could push. And I guess to your point about maybe some pitfalls here, it just feels like this is increasing the pull nature of the channel massively. Yeah, can I because I I don't know how they're gonna implement this to your question about is it like or what we're saying, is it a lair? Is it replacing the leg of the table? It how is it weighted compared to this or that other thing? Um, I bet they'll still weigh bids a decent amount. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

For sure. But could could we agree on on that there will certainly be something on top?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that it's definitely this is

Why are retailers losing control of what gets sold?

SPEAKER_01

this is a big change, I think. And I don't I don't well have to learn more about it. Okay. But this is this is a big change, yeah. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_00

Why why what is it what is why why this matters to me is uh let's stick to uh with with the coffee machines. All right. Uh let's assume you you you you run an online online shop for coffee machines. Okay. You have coffee machine A and coffee machine B. And for whatever reason, coffee machine A is way more important uh to you because I don't know, you have higher margin, yeah, you want to sell it through whatever it is. And you we you you mentioned it, Mike. You right now have steering mechanisms to push product coffee machine A by being more aggressive with the ROAS to break it out in a dedicated campaign with a higher budget. Whatever. Sure. Uh so this was how you could steer the pull mechanism. Yeah. Yeah. Now there's another kind of campaign option or campaign. Is it a campaign tab? No, what is it actually?

SPEAKER_01

It's uh Well, I mean there's a there's a campaign uh technology layer AI. Okay, yeah. And then that enables you to serve new formats. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Let and let's see this this new layer of of campaign technology, which is AI uh powered shopping uh ads, um decides that it's not coffee machine A, but it's coffee machine B, which is a way better fit to the search term.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Google will probably push coffee machine A.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Although you as a retailer actually want coffee machine A to be pushed for whatever reasons. So this is what what what because I'm I'm trying to talk on behalf of our clients and and retailers. Yeah. This is where I think this might might might be a thing to to really be be concerned about. Yeah, I hear you.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good point. I mean, I I I can't fault Google's approach in and of itself to work really hard on the relevance and do use the best tools they have, but that's true. Like, well, we talk about this all the time. They don't know what they don't know. And like the Google algorithms are not strategic. No, they're not. They they're thinking on a per auction basis, and they're not thinking more than longer than a month's budget. I say this all the time. Your quote, man. I used it so many times. I say this all the time. It's the truth. They're brilliant at what they do, but they're not strategic. Um but yeah, I mean, to that point, I think Google's really good at taking care of the user in this regard and taking care of the relevance, but that's that's what's relevant to the user. There's something that's relevant to you. That's the point. And no one's going to take care of that besides.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And uh I think uh it was, man, I I'm not kidding. It was 10 years ago, maybe even 12, 13 years ago. It was one of my f my first talks I had at a convention. And um It was Who Let You On Stage? Yeah, yeah, man. It was a shout-out to our founder, Jan Radanich. He he saw something. I don't know what he saw, but I was on stage. Um, and uh it was basically about I mean, man, kind of the early days we talked about the quality score and the rank system. And one one major argument we had why Google is just absolutely smashing it, is they created this this win-win-win uh uh kind of situation, this golden triangle. Yeah, they max out the result for the end consumer because the quality score is driving the most relevant results. The cloud the the the online shop is still forced to really bring relevancy to the third because that's ultimately deciding if the ad is shown yes or no. Uh, but still the online retailer had massive leverages to still control what is shown. And at the end of the day, Google was benefiting because yeah, the end consumer was was was jumping on on the ship because the pro the results of Google were just so great in terms of uh SERP results. Um that was the golden triangle. And and in this case now what we're talking about here, I feel like that the online retailer is left out to a certain degree. Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I assume Google will will I mean if if if there was a Google uh rep now, he or she would be like, guys, what the fuck are you talking about? Well we believe that the higher the the click-through rate, the higher the conversion rate will be at the value.

SPEAKER_01

I I bet these will perform. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But is it the is it always the highest conversion rate that the online retailer is aiming at? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's always the quick because these are just again, this is just in the channel, what the channel knows. Then imagine like you have two products that are totally feature comparable.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Well one is, you know, like a vendor brand, like Nike, whatever. And one is your brand. Yes. You want to push your brand.

SPEAKER_00

For sure. And it's not always, I mean, uh uh another great quote of you, Mike the the best Google Ads results or outcome is not always the best outcome for your business. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe maybe you you want to accept lower conversion rates, but you you achieve something Google just doesn't know you want to achieve. Yeah. And that's a real risk here. I mean, we will we'll have to find out how big of a risk it actually is. But it feels like uh that the online retailer is is is losing losing control here. Yeah. And I'm not the biggest fan of it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I I also, I mean, I think they're gonna have to ship some new reports too or something because it's writing these paragraphs of text. Can I see that, please? Yes.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, what's actually in there?

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. You know, there's gonna be these AI brief sets you can write. We'll see. I think that'll be a moving target. I'm wondering how well they'll work at the start, but I'm optimistic that the technology will mature. But um, you know, maybe you could tell the AI brief, like, please push my brand, please, sir.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe there are some control mirrors.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Do we know anything about the the roll-up plan?

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, so I think it's it's rolling out in the second half of the year, US first. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Why not? Yeah, of course. It's a big market.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well one day that they'll roll out something cool somewhere else first.

SPEAKER_00

I think, yeah. Imagine.

SPEAKER_01

Do you do you think we will listen, man. They rolled out buy on Google in France. Never again. Never again.

SPEAKER_00

It was a disaster. Will there be a feature which is rolled out first in Austria? Do you think there's a chance? In Austria. In Austria. Why not? We are a great country. Uh be bold. No. No. Snowball chance in hell. Yeah. No, okay, fine. But uh roll roll out first in the US, and then they probably will have a lot of data. They'll they will look at it and roll it out internationally, right? Yeah, that's it. Let's see. Um for sure. They would if if if if it pushes click through it, they they will have something to to drive adoption here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. So that is uh AI-powered shopping ads and intelligent product identification, one of its features.

SPEAKER_00

It's so crazy, right? If you read it, it sounds sounds so good on the surface. But if you really dig into it, there are some things to be concerned about.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean that well, everything is trade-offs. I I think uh it could be really good at the campaign level, but again, there are these deeper layers that you have to think about. All right.

SPEAKER_00

So another another another big news. PLAs are coming to our beloved Chat GPD.

SPEAKER_01

Uh wait, did we just say that PLAs

Are ChatGPT Shopping Ads a real step or a copycat?

SPEAKER_01

are going away on Google, but they're finally arriving at the right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. You you have I I mean, shout out to ChatGPD. They just don't care what Google is doing. Not kidding. I think it's just that it was on their roadmap and I think they couldn't change it. It's a necessary first step for the You have to start somewhere.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, yeah, that's true. And I'm not trying to I'm not trying to shit on them. You have to start somewhere, literally. And they make progress. Yeah, and PLAs, as we said, PLAs are they they just work. It's really to work. Shopping ads, one of the huge success stories. Yes. Um so they do work. But you know what, Google, I don't know if we can read into this like, because Google is building new formats now. So it's if we take a lesson from them, it seems like maybe they're not up to the task in these new environments. Yes. And so OpenAI is gonna have to move on that too.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Any anything uh worth uh mentioning regarding I mean it's it's a PLA format as we know it. Yeah. It's based on the data feed as we know it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

No, any any anything.

SPEAKER_01

It's pretty it's pretty bread and butter, the mock-ups that I've seen. They look like a very simple PLA, even a PLA from some years back. Um But open AI's feed spec, there it is pretty detailed, and there's even ways in which Google is emulating OpenAI's feedback. It's not a bad spec. Um so I think that they will be able be able to build better and more detailed ads over time. Then the question is, you know, if they want to are they like what are they gonna do? Are they gonna create conversational discovery ads next? Are they they'll get in this position if they're just following Google's features. There's a perception that it's just like what Bing happened to Bing.

SPEAKER_00

Literally, Mike, that's what I wanted to say. Uh yeah. And and this is where where the magic is missing. Uh because I mean, look, for for Bing, I think it just makes sense. Uh Google is the top dog. They have no core technol technology to to just say, Look, no, we are the better product. And it was never an ego thing for them. They didn't enough. They didn't need to differentiate. Exactly. Just copy what what is working and let's let's get our ten to fifteen percent market share.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

A solid strategy. Yeah. Hats off to that. But OpenAI has a different ambition though. And that's where where I'm look, it's it's a necessary first step. I I I hear you and I I see it and and it will probably work. But mate, exactly. What what what is the next thing? So are they really a copycat of Google?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I mean, you know, the the promise was like that they didn't want to do what everyone else was doing and that and and what everyone assumed with ads and AI is that this is a new category of technology. Exactly. Ads will feel different. Yeah. And and I think Google is walking that path. Um True that. True that. They started slow, but now they found that route. Yeah, they've got they've got now five different native AI formats, AI ad formats.

SPEAKER_00

By the way, we we talked couple one and a half years ago, we talked about the innovators dilemma. I think that certainly is not true anymore. I think Google has to be careful now that they are not overwhelming the marketplace. Yeah. A lot is going on there. Yeah. And to me, maybe even too much. Uh on ChatGPT side, it's more straightforward. But let's see.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I I think that the other standouts I would just mention. Like, well, first imagine that ChatGPT does want to follow in these footsteps. I think it's a lot more expensive to build an AI-powered shopping ad than just a more or less programmatic seed-based ad. And so that's one thing is because they've got more financial pressure than Google does. And yeah, the the other thing that I saw causing a bit of a stir, um, and maybe it was a bad email that they sent out, but they they announced when they sent this email that I think they were just trying to clarify that right now OpenAI feeds or Chat GPT feeds um will only serve PLAs. It will not create any organic placements. Okay. Got it. But that's consistent with what we already knew because they rolled back their they they put their e-commerce efforts on pause. Um I I think the feed spec has just been laying dormant since then. Yes. Now that it's not waking it up again. Yeah, they're waking it up again and using it for PLAs, which is I mean, it's great. It's nothing I bet their ads are gonna do okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And I think I mean uh I love the argument you brought up with uh for me at least it implied a certain ROI perspective. Um because look, I mean the uh down the line there will be this this this IPO, right? I mean, and and they sooner than later or later, yeah. And you have to show some some some income streams and and why not go with a low-hanging fruit, which is a straightforward PLA campaign time. They know it's working, so maybe it's a smart strategy. Again, yeah the ambition level is to cross 100 billion in the Reds business uh within the next four years. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Classic PLAs won't weren't going to cut it. That's my my my statement. No, I agree with you. So um we don't want to be critical, it's just we're holding, I mean, there there's an ambition level. And I think the the pace they they roll out is not enough, and f especially the innovation uh factor is is is completely missing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's what that's what you know what I always feel like is if I were an investor, it's like how much have I spent on this company that was supposed to change everything and they just remade, they were scraping Google Shopping, and now they're remaking Google shopping ads from 10 years ago or more.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Maybe maybe it's part of a bigger plan and they really do this this this small step on perp steps on purpose and they have some something up their sleeves.

SPEAKER_01

As I said, there's something every week. So that that's for sure. They there's really something every week. They've they've got the teams working, and let's see.

What it all means for retailers

SPEAKER_00

So to wrap it up, um classic standard shopping campaigns uh got the big hit on Google side because there's a new AI-powered shopping ads. Yes. Which is not just not everything is gold there. I think we have to be careful here, especially from the perspective of the online retailer. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

What probably losing control to a certain degree? Like, yeah, you know, AI is more involved in matching, AI is involved in what the app looks like.

SPEAKER_00

The ad rank might change.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And on the other side, ChatGPD is doubling down on classic standard shopping.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so there you have it. I'm I'm now I'm really proud of my segue back at the start. I will rewatch this.

SPEAKER_00

That was not um and I I I think it will be you know prouder of you than I sponsored, sponsor process. It's been a pleasure, Chris. Be careful with my shoulder. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Hold on. No, I do that. Don't do that. Don't yeah, yeah, do it. You said be careful with my shoulder. That's your fault, Chris. Ladies and gentlemen, before I let you go, I just want to say we are in the presence of a real podcasting hero. Chris had uh shoulder surgery, sport-related shoulder surgery. Yeah. And um, he's here toughen it up. He even went in for the handshake. Yeah. Even though he didn't have to.

SPEAKER_00

This was the toughest part of the podcast right now, shaking your hands. Not because I don't like you. I know you love me, but the shoulder is hurting. But I I hope I delivered some somehow.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Well, we applaud your dedication. And thanks to everyone for watching. We admire your dedication for sticking through the whole episode. As always, this has been another episode of Growing E-Commerce brought to you by Smarter Ecommerce, also known as SMEC. You can learn more at Smarter eCommerce.com. And we really appreciate if you leave us a review, give us a shout on social media. Everything helps. Thank you. See you next time. Bye bye.