Ep 183 Perspectives from Training: Interview with Linda Hershberger

Today we are joined by Linda Hershberger.  Learn how empty nesting, relocation and a cancer diagnosis led her to seeking out training as a spiritual guide for others.

Some of our show notes contain affiliate links. We want to save you the effort of looking up resources + we get a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support.

Transcript

Perspectives from training

[00:00:00] Chris: Hello. It's great to be with you today. We are continuing our series called wisdom from the generations, where we are interviewing people at various stages in their spiritual guidance practices to see what we can learn from these perspectives. And we are grateful to have all Linda Hirschberger joining us today, Linda just finished her two year of a three year spiritual guidance training program.

And so we are looking forward to hearing her insights as someone in the middle of training and what she is learning through this process. Linda, welcome to the podcast. 

[00:00:37] Linda: Oh, thank you for having me. 

[00:00:39] Chris: So as we begin, I wonder if you could talk about how you decided to enter into a training program and what mindsets, if any, you had to work through.

[00:00:49] Linda: Sure. Happy to share. Spiritual guidance was Something that was working for me at the time when I was making the decision, it had changed me. And I was at this point where, gosh, how do I figure out how I share this? Cause that's, I'm usually a curious person, but then I want to share what I've learned with people.

So some background to that is I was looking for my next, my next right thing. And I was, we were coming off of COVID. And things were starting to open back up. All three kids had graduated from college and we had one in just recent in 20 and 21. And so I was looking around for where's my next project, so to speak.

And I was working on a nonprofit that I had started in 18, 19 in Kenya. Just I didn't start the nonprofit. I was helping it start in the in the U S to have a presence. And that was being put on hold. And so I was wondering what God was up to because sometimes when something died down, another thing pops up.

Our home life was also shifting. My husband was ending a job and we were reconfiguring where we were living and what we were doing. And so we were purchasing a home in Florida, but also kept our home up in Wisconsin as well. So just a lot of upheaval, so to speak. But in the meantime, I was Still going on my own self directed retreats to Colorado to get some peace and try to figure out what was going on.

That's all kind of brings up. How did I get to that place? And I need to tell you my background of my cancer journey, because in life, all I'm finding that it's the big events that can really turn you on a dime and send you in a different direction. And that's when transformation.

Has happened for me. So that big life event came in 2013 and it was breast cancer. And I went through the whole gamut of chemos and surgery and radiation and broke my ankle cause everything was weak right after that. So it was just, it was a year of, Oh my goodness, what's going on here. So it really set me back.

But in that quietness, I met God in a more, most profound way that I've ever met him before. Not that I would suggest anybody. Getting Brett's cancer to go meet God, but that's how it worked out for my journey. Before that, a little background, I was a a server. I was reaching and I was learning.

Those are three things that if you had seen me before 2013, I was busy doing all that stuff. I was, I'm busy, but it was probably my middle name. I have a master's in marketing, but that I put that on hold after the kids came, but then I was miss volunteer and all kinds of things. I guess serving wise.

I was off on mission trips, took the kids with me. I went with them. I did mission in Madison as well with our church, and then I was helping plant a new 3rd site for ours. Church at the time. We also had a food pantry garden land that we were donating. And so I was a part of that nonprofit and watching that grow and putting my marketing in there.

Learning wise, I was thinking back, it, I was mainly a head Christian. I wanted to know everything I could about it, but it was all stuck in my head. So I did Bible study fellowship, BSF for seven years trying to really figure out what God was saying through his word. But then I bounced off to all these Bible study classes and this and that.

I was just, I was an absorber, but I really. And it was coming out, in my serving and my reaching, but it really never took home in the way it has now. And so after cancer and 13 I had to, I listened to your recalibration prop podcasts and it was like, yep, sometimes you get stopped short and you have to figure out where this journey is going to take you and look at the signs and, Wonder we'll just take it, take in the landscape and figure out where are we headed now?

[00:04:36] Christina: Linda, thank you so much for sharing about that personal cancer journey that you went through, coupled with normal empty nester change of jobs, things that, most of the population or have some degree of something that they can relate to with your story, but point being that there was these natural transitions happening with health, family, lifestyle, et cetera.

And then that place of pause, you were taking in all that you had been experiencing also your own personal journey of spiritual guidance, self directed. Did retreats and it sounds like that kind of piqued your curiosity to pursue training yourself. Is that what I'm hearing?

[00:05:10] Linda: Yes, but there's a time period that I skipped in there and I'll give you a little glimpse of that.

So as I when you're in breast cancer, they give you an appointment with a psychologist and a therapist, this, that kind of stuff. And she was encouraging me to try mindfulness and yoga and that kind of stuff to get me in that mode. So I did take some of that, but I'm like, gosh, there's got to be a Christian side to this.

And so my neighbor Beth O'Brien at the time or previous neighbor she recommended a spiritual direction. I didn't know what that was. And so I sat with her for a time, but out of that came a class. She was teaching called centering prayer at Holy wisdom. And so I took that for six weeks. I wanted more cause that was just beyond my You go through a class and you learn how to do it, but you don't it takes a lot to ingest that contemplative lifestyle.

And so I was just at the beginning. So she offered another six week class. And of course I took that, that got me to the welcoming prayer and that I have sat with since then, it, that kind of revolutionized my brain like, Oh, I have a choice about this feeling or, Oh, I can walk it out the back door. And it I've used that with so many.

So many situations and now it's become second nature. And that yeah, I can't say enough about that. The the other part that I really enjoyed was learning more about myself and the Enneagram and Learning why I did what I did, or what I do, what, why I do what I do. And so I was having to learn to slow down and not skim across the top as a seven on the Enneagram.

I I just wanted more. I wanted to experience more, taste more, but I was at that high level. And I was learning from the contemplative life that you need to find a place and go down and go deeper. And there's much more down there, which I didn't know because I was skimming across the top.

[00:06:59] Chris: Well, Linda, thank you so much for all these wonderful stories that you're sharing. Just the ways that you're connecting in, in new ways. Connecting to the interior of life, connecting your head and your heart and building that bridge between them. And yeah, I've stated a little bit about what I've heard, but maybe you can speak a little bit more to how the experience of entering into a spiritual guidance training program has changed you.

[00:07:29] Linda: Sure. No problem. Yeah. I was enjoying the being the recipient of spiritual guidance, but I didn't know what it was going to be like to actually be trained in it and turn it around to share it. So it's been an exciting journey because I, it's, I don't want to say it was a blind thing that you walk into, but you have no idea what this is, or at least I had no idea, even though I'd had those experiences in more the contemplative life and was interested in that.

And, but The spiritual guidance program is not all about the contemplative life. It's more about exposing you to all kinds of things that gosh, it's just been such a joy. And so to, to list a couple of things it has blown the doors off of my God box. And I use that just cause it's an analogy that helps me tell people that, oh my gosh, I had God in a box and he was He was good and I knew where he was and I could go find him when I needed him.

But boy this program has allowed me to explore so many different dimensions and see how I can't even tell you how big the mystery is because this mystery is so much bigger than I can even, I guess it's just, yeah, it's, it is just, as you can tell, I'm having trouble finding words to describe.

How wonderful knowing that he's not in that box anymore, and that he is beyond all that. And he should be because that's a human box that I put him in and not how big and wonderful he is. And then I guess we in where I'm at in the program is we have, a directee that we practice with, and I have, I guess I shouldn't be in awe, but I am to watch the spirit work.

And when you see that happen the first time and the second time and the third time, you're just, I'm Oh my word, this is real. Not that it wasn't before I was doing what I call my own ministry of availability and I was watching God put things in my path and that kind of thing. But when you're in a.

A conversation and the spirit's moving. It's cool. And I guess the last thing is just heightened awareness of what's around me, what God's up to. I'm always on the lookout and he's popping up all over and gosh, that's just a great way to live. And so I'm enjoying the program. It's a lot.

The reading they have us doing is just blowing my mind in a good way. And the camaraderie with my cohort has been just fabulous. It has helped me know that others are on this journey with me and that we're all experiencing this new profound insights that are hard to describe. 

[00:09:56] Christina: Yeah. I appreciate you naming all of those pieces, right?

The the images of God that seem to be really expanding in your world, the way in which spirit is showing up in your sessions with the one that you're practicing with sort of those God noticings all around. I'm wondering if you could take a moment, Linda, the last piece you shared about the camaraderie and being with it with others in the community, going through this together.

Maybe you can speak a little bit more to that experience and what that's been like for you. 

[00:10:21] Linda: Sure. The first year, I think we were all a little shell shocked and shy and we all came from different disciplines or different faith traditions. And I will say my particular program has a wide variety of faith traditions.

And that is so rich that it that's another part that's blowing my doors off. I've gotten to know other traditions. in a very reverent way of how they see God. And, but I also see how it all comes together and we need each other and the community there. This second year, we have done a fun thing where every two to three weeks we get together on zoom and kind of review, Oh, are you having trouble with that book?

Or, Oh, how did that presentation go? I heard, just if we had a speaker we meet quarterly. So having some time in between to process that and know that others are either having epiphanies on this or that, or they're struggling with too much life going on and just to hold each other close, it's just, it's been a gift probably because I'm a people person.

[00:11:22] Christina: And I think that's important, right? Going into it, that there's a difference between our own solo journey of deepening and going into these practices, but doing it with others is a very different experience. You mentioned a moment ago that you felt like going into the program, didn't quite know what to expect.

And so I'm curious as someone is maybe considering for themselves going into a spiritual guidance training program, what advice or what things might you offer them as they're on that journey of exploration? 

[00:11:45] Linda: Sure. The first thing that came to my mind was I try to vet the program, but then I was thinking, you really don't know what you're getting into until you get in.

But I did interview a couple of programs and interviewing them to find out what they offer was very helpful. And then when you get into it, just be okay with expanding your comfortability with what's coming at you. And and I envision. In my mind, it's just keep my hands open for what's coming at me.

Don't judge anything. They the one I'm in, it just offers you so many different options to look at. So it which is a huge blessing, but it's a lot a previous participant in the program mentioned it like it was a fire hose coming at you which they have to do to get the information.

She's taking a long drink after she's graduated from the program to go back and absorb and we take what we can at the time, but to have those resources is invaluable. And the last thing I think would be just be patient with yourself. God knows which program you need to be in. Meaning it's the slow work.

He'll guide you. He'll direct you what to go into. But when you get in the program and you feel overwhelmed, just know that you're on it for the journey and he'll take you through what you're ready for next. So hopefully that helps. One last thing. The community that surrounded me before the program.

Is super curious about what I'm up to. And so just be aware that people are going to ask you questions and wonder what the heck are you doing? I haven't heard of that before. And so come on, coming up with gentle answers and open answers is made them even more curious and we continue dialoguing and that's been a a blessing as well.

[00:13:23] Chris: Linda, thank you for sharing those insights we have the same joy of participating in the same program, which is out of La Crosse, Wisconsin. And I love that we both have wonderful things to say about it. It was a wonderful program. And so guess a question I have for you, as you think about the future of spiritual guidance, where does your imagination go?

[00:13:47] Linda: Or my personality. I just want everybody, everyone to know about it. Like you guys should see what all this stuff is, and, but that's my, I have immediate joy that comes out. And I think that comes out when I meet people, but I'm not sure where God's going to take me personally on this journey.

And that's really exciting because I I like adventures but I do like to know what's ahead, but this journey, I don't know what's ahead, but my dream first is. Spiritual guidance is that so many more people would know about it and embrace it in their own way. And it can reach different people in different ways.

So I've realized it takes different spiritual guides to help different people with different personalities and different traditions. And so there's room for everybody. But I know I would just love to fan the flame with the Holy Spirit and get it out to as many people. Just because it helped me so much, I just want to share it.

So that's another holding out my hands and not gripping anything too tight and just letting the flow happen. 

[00:14:48] Christina: And I love that. And we specifically wanted someone that was in the middle of their program to share with us on the podcast because you're still taking it in. It's still fresh.

You're experiencing all the newness, Linda. I wonder if there's anything else that you didn't get a chance to say today that you would want to contribute to the conversation. 

[00:15:03] Linda: Just that I'm slowly getting to know there's a community in Madison, which I assume there's communities all over the world that are coming together to support this kind of ministry, this kind of happening, and it's a joy to know that's out there.

And that'll be my support when I do move and get out of the program and graduate and move forward, because I don't want to do any of this alone. And having a community to know that they're there to catch me is is fabulous, so thank you for being part of that community as well. So appreciate you having me on.

[00:15:37] Chris: It's been a joy to have you on. And I hope that those who are considering spiritual guidance whether it's just seeking it out to, to experience what it is, or those that maybe have experienced spiritual guidance and want to maybe offer that kind of ministry or that kind of deep listening to their community would find it helpful.

So thank you so much for being on this podcast with us, Linda. 

[00:16:05] Linda: Thank you guys. 

[00:16:06] Chris: And now is the part of the podcast where we share a little bit about what we are into. So what are we into? 

[00:16:19] Christina: I am into lemonade stands. So this past weekend, two of our kids were out front, they did a bake sale slash lemonade stand.

And I feel like that just brings out the best in humanity. We had literally the enterprise truck was driving by and pulled over to buy some lemonade from the kids. Didn't speak English that to really sweet Hispanic guys a group of college kid bikers that were, Venmoing 50 cents, a dollar 50 to buy their things and taking pictures with our son.

And Just such a fun day of meeting neighbors and interacting and the joy of children sharing their baked goods and sweet treats with the neighbors. So I am very much into lemonade stands. 

[00:16:54] Chris: That was very fun. I think I'm into something a little more serious 

but whenever we were first becoming parents we adopted our first two children, there's a lot to learn becoming a parent. And there were these Particular videos that we watched, which were called conscientious parenting. And I vaguely remember though, those videos and Christine and I were in a conversation not too long ago, talking about a podcast that was talking about conscientious parenting.

And I thought, Oh, I should review some of that material, because if you don't use it, you lose it. It's like a language. And so I was trying it out last night. I picked up my oldest child from. The last track mate of the season. Thank you, God. Track meets are very long. And so it's like a four hour event, sometimes longer, and we're on the way back.

And we asked the question can I listen to my music? And so I said, of course, and so it's not music that I would like it's different music. And so instead of being my. judgmental musical self about genres that I don't really care for. I began asking questions of what is it about this that intrigues you or captures you?

And I think I had a wonderful conversation rather than shutting off. I like my music, you like your music and you got to hear more about what my kid is into. And I think there's all kinds of ways that looking back over the past couple of weeks that I could apply that, what do you think of the shirt dad?

How would I rephrase that? How can I be contemplative about a shirt? So I'm into conscientious parenting. 

[00:18:41] Linda: That's awesome. This is Linda. I am into plants. They this is the season where you need to move them if they're in the wrong place. So I have some black eyed Susans and some daisies that move every year and they come up where I don't always want them.

So the rule is if they're not in the right place, they're a weed. So I move them so that they become something I can pick later. And so with this rain that we've had the last couple of days, it's been prime moving time. So I've been moving plants. 

[00:19:09] Chris: Very fun. Thank you everyone for joining us.

It was great to have you hope to see you again next time. Make it a great week.