Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Evolving Out Of Purity Culture
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It is always a delight when a member of our community comes on the show to share their story. Brit "Beans" Barron is a teacher, speaker and author of Worth It. She joins me for a conversation about her journey evolving out of purity culture. We discuss her work to unpack shame, unravel the purity narrative and embrace her sexuality as a queer woman.
Learn more about Brit's work
Learn more about these topics:
My letter to young women
Less Shame - More Sex Ed
Learning to Listen to Your Body
Reclaim Your Arousal Mindset
Let's Go Girls: Hailey from Pasadena
ORDER my Book: Permission for Pleasure: Tending Your Sexual Garden
JOIN my Newsletter: Good Education for Good Sex
FOLLOW on Instagram @cindyscharkey
VISIT my website and blog
Whatever these things are that we're longing for keeps us at a place where, like, oh, I found my community, I found my place in the world, and like I just need to stay here. Like, so whatever I need to believe or do or act to like stay as a part of this community, I I want that because I want that safety and security. And I get that, but it's not what we were meant for.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Permission for Pleasure. I'm Cindy Sharkey, your host, and I'm delighted you're here. Once in a while, we have the privilege here of hearing from members of our community. They come on and share their stories, and we explore what they've learned about sex, their bodies, and pleasure. And that's what our episode is about today. Many of you have asked for more episodes or conversations about purity culture. How to unravel the fame and narratives that you heard and absorbed. It's complicated. That's purity culture. If you're unfamiliar with the term, it basically means that your goodness and sex value as a woman is dependent on your purity or abstinence from sex until marriage. Marriage to a man. Essentially, your worth is dependent not only on your virginity as defined by not having sexual intercourse, but at the root of it's about not being sexual. So to dive into this topic, I invited Britt Barron's on to chat about her experience with purity culture. And you'll hear her say, I have purity culture success because I've never had sex with a man. I met Britt through her wife. Sammy's like a daughter to me. That's when I get first. So you'll hear Britt or Beans, as we call her, refer to me as a dirty. I simply cannot convince her to switch it up to Sunday or even a monitor. We'll get there one day. Beans is a bright light in this world. She's a speaker, teacher, author, and like me that's passionate about having conversations. Conversations that matter to make you think, to help you evolve, and hold space for more than one true thing. I'm delighted she could join me today and share some of her story. Welcome to Permission for Pleasure, Beans.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Yeah, I'm excited to see where the conversation goes. I'm a fan of you, a fan of this podcast, really a fan of your whole family, so I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01That's wonderful. It's great to have you. And I'd love for you to introduce yourself, tell everybody a little bit about yourself and your work in the world, what you're passionate about.
SPEAKER_00Yes, my name is Beans, at least that's what everyone calls me, which I love. I'm a speaker, a writer, I do diversity and inclusion trainings. So I've really spent a lot of my life trying to figure out how things that don't seem to go together go together, or how to have good conversations or meaningful conversations. So I grew up initially in the church, in the evangelical church, became a pastor, and I'm actually still a pastor at a different kind of church. We can talk about that too. But through that, just unpacking my own sexuality at a certain point is what led me to expand the conversation. And so I feel like as a a woman, as a queer woman, as a black queer woman, I try to write about that, talk about that, share that experience in a way that can lead us all towards more wholeness and transformation.
SPEAKER_01I like to ask guests when they come on. I mean, you alluded to it a little bit, but what kind of sex education you received growing up, if any? What did that look like for you?
SPEAKER_00Yes, very little. I was one of those kids where we grew up in the church, but we went to public school, so I didn't go to like private school or anything. But I remember not the all every year, but like sixth or seventh grade, like during the sex education, I was pulled out, you know, like I was pulled out of class.
SPEAKER_01You mean by your parents, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. They didn't want me to like, I don't know, hear about it. So I feel like it was very vague. The general message, I grew up in purity culture, so I feel like the sex education I got was abstinence. Which, you know, and we could talk about this. It was I mean, it was just such a fascinating thing. I as a person who is queer, like I didn't realize that until I was 27, which feels like kind of majorly late. But I think it's because I just knew I wasn't supposed to be having sex with boys and I didn't want to, so then I felt like, oh, I'm killing it, you know, I'm doing really well at what I was taught. And then so basically sex education was just don't do it, and then I didn't, but it caused some other delayed realizations for me.
SPEAKER_01Hmm. We're gonna talk about those delayed realizations, but let's circle back to you used the term purity culture, which which you defined as abstinence, but I'd love to hear a little bit more about how that looked for you personally. A lot of people grow up in the purity problem culture. But tell me a little bit more from your perspective. What did that look like? What did it sound like for you growing up?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know what's funny, Mrs. Sharky, is actually just a few nights ago, there was a bunch of us, we were out having drinks, and we decided to share like our most traumatic purity culture, like youth ministry experiences we had ever had, and it was so wild. I think for me, purity culture just looked like the main narrative was your purity, specifically as a woman. I don't know what they were teaching the boys because we were separated, but the main thing was your purity, like that was like your responsibility, your value, basically, like your worth came down to like your purity. And so one, this is like I just remember there were like so many experiences I had where it'd be like all the girls, and we were like teenagers, and like there were all these illustrations, like you would go around and like everyone would pull like a petal off of a flower, and then it would be like get back to the like youth past time and be like, is this flower still pretty? And we'd be like, No, you know, and then they'd be like, every time you have sex, you know, it's like taking off one of your petals, or like, you know, a velcro. Every time you do it, it loses its stick. In my mind, it was just the most important thing was to not sort of give it up too soon because my value was sort of in not having all my flower petals and all my like velcro stick, and all these analogies I heard over and over was my idea. So sex wasn't even something it was ever like, hey, this is a good thing, or uh maybe you'll like it one day, or it was just like, I swear to God, if you do this, like you will lose value as a woman, so don't. And then you're just like, okay, that's what we're starting off with.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and that's such a common theme I hear. It's you know, you're not alone in that in that narrative. Takes a lot of different forms, but the things you're saying are really familiar to me. And then uh, you know, what that does uh for you uh as you come into young adulthood, even uh you said you couldn't believe, you know, at 27 uh you have a whole story to tell. And that's what your book is about, worth it about your story around it. I think it's interesting that uh people don't talk about this a lot, but you've brought it up is uh having your value and worth attached to purity related to sex.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Totally, and that's what it was. Yeah, there was just a sense of like not even like oh, if you have sex, it's like a oops, like I messed up. It was like a man, you that's it. That's like the one thing. Like all the other like quote unquote rules I feel like of evangelicalism in the 90s and the early 2000s that I existed in, like, yeah, you're not really supposed to drink, but if you do, it's sort of a like, oops, you know, and you're not really supposed to smoke, but if you do, it's a little bit of a noob. But sex is the one that it's like, this will put you outside of the club. You know, this is a thing where you can't come back from that sort of thing. Looking back now, it was kind of a weird obsession. As much as they didn't want us to have sex, I swear that's all they talked about. Every camp, what annual gathering, every youth thing. Like anytime we were alone, I'm like, yeah, okay, for not wanting us to do it, y'all talk about it a lot, you know. Yeah, weird. We're like obsessed with it, but we can't do it. It's just wild.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it is wild, it's a wild way to come at normal sexuality, and then I see the ramifications of that. I'm sure you do too, as a pastor. Trying to unravel all that narrative and understand a normal sexuality is quite a journey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you've been on that journey.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Been on it, still on it.
SPEAKER_01Because it's a forever journey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know if it ever if I'll ever arrive, which feels a lot nicer to think about now, right? Something we get to be on. But yeah, it's it's quite a journey. And I think you know, we talk about this we're a younger community, right? So a lot of folks are around my age, mid thirties, early forties. But we're like probably five, four or five years away from having teenagers, you know, as a part of our community, because these kids that our friends have growing up, and we're like, oh, we gotta start thinking so before we like, we don't want to give them what we had, you know, and so I feel like it's fun to even think about like, wow, can we do it differently for these for these kids? And how would we talk about it? You know, what would I say to my 14-year-old self? What did I want to hear? Like, what would have helped me out maybe a little set me up better, you know?
SPEAKER_01I would love to hear that. I would love to hear what you would like to tell your 14-year-old self. Have you come to any of that? Are you still wrestling with it?
SPEAKER_00Gosh, I feel like you're so good about normalizing talking to kids about this and all the the content that you do, which I think is so amazing. But I'm like, I literally can't, it's hard sometimes to even imagine it. Because I feel like you know, I'm like, it was just so different that I'm like, what would it be like, you know? And now we're starting to have these kids running around New Abbey that I'm like, well, what do I really say? If if they're asking you know what I mean, if they ask me questions about it, and to be honest, I don't know what I would have wanted to hear, but I definitely would have liked to have conversations sooner. Or like be aware that not only was it like you can't have sex, you can't talk about it, but we were only talking about straight sex. Like I would have liked to even know that there were other options or like figure figuring things out or be told different stories, but I don't know. That's uh I'm still thinking that I don't know. It's hard to reimagine, honestly.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I think that's what I hear from a lot of young parents is they grew up in this purity problem, and then they come into parenthood and they just don't have any tools to open the conversation because it was non-existent for them. And they're on a journey and evolving absolutely fast, but it feels you know, fraught with hole, and they don't know where to start. And that's why I I mean you've heard my stuff. It starts early. Like quite a lot of time. So we start early with a body parts of opening the conversation and asking questions and letting them ask questions. There just wasn't a lot of that for a lot of people growing up and modeling of that. Yeah. So then as parents, they feel lost at speed. Like, how do we even begin?
SPEAKER_00Totally. It was next up because I feel lost and I'm not even a parent.
SPEAKER_01Yes, but I do love that you as a shepherd, after coming alongside people at New Abbey, that you are thinking about how to have those conversations and open these topics to to make them just normal conversations about normal things and normal bodies.
SPEAKER_00I know. We say all the time, sex and money are probably the two things like people think about the most. And they're just things no one talked about. Like both of those things I feel like were so taboo. Like when I was growing up, like never talk about money and definitely don't ever talk about sex. That's wild because I literally think about those things a lot. Most days, every day I think about both of those. And to have no process or guidance and how to sort of understand it, and even you know, and then you get in a relationship and you're like, Man, these are just numbers on a screen, but why am I crying? You know, like you like all these things have actually so much more emotion to them, and so I feel like it's fun and also wild to be figuring out as an adult and wondering, what would this look like if I would have had some conversations, you know, when I was in a different framework.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It sort of ends up being a lot of learn on the spot.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. See like when you bump into a wall, back up and then like assess. We're only figuring it out as we like move through it, and you're like, wait, okay, I hit something. Okay, let me figure out you know what it is.
SPEAKER_01I like that analogy that hitting the wall and backing up. I might use that beans. That's good. I like that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, take that one.
SPEAKER_01And for parents listening, you know, it's a good way to think about it. Back up and reassess and then decide. And it's couples too. With all the uh what I'd like to do now is hearing uh kind of how you grew up and the messaging you had, and then you came into young adulthood with all of the uh uh value attached to not having sex. You're a single young adult, you're working, and you meet Sammy. Yeah. And then these worlds collide, so to speak.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. There was a part of me, I'm not gonna lie, that like there was so much value attached to quote unquote virginity, which whatever that even means, but that you know, I'm not as a woman and a person who like did make it, like I joke that I'm still Purity Culture's greatest success because I've still never had sex with a man. But you know, there was like a weird, like almost like a little bit of a chip on my shoulder at some point where I'm like, wow, like this seems like the most important thing to do, and it's the one thing I've like succeeded at, which I always think about like if I was in a different context, I probably would have realized that I was gay a lot sooner because I was like so disinterested in having sex with boys that I was dating. But instead I felt like, hey, maybe I've just really internalized these messages, and I'm like just really good at being a Christian. And so I sort of had those ideas. Like I was all of my friends' accountability partners because I was just like so good at that. And and then I yeah, I went to to coffee with this girl I didn't know at the time named Sammy because I was a pastor of church starting a college ministry, she wanted a volunteer, and we had coffee, which is wild. Just a few weeks ago, we celebrated it was nine years since our initial coffee date, which is nuts. So we went to coffee and and we talked for like four hours. And I just remember thinking, like, what an amazing person. Like, what a delightful experience we're having. Like, wow, I love talking to her. Like, I kind of want to talk to her more. When's the next when do I get to talk to her again? Like, sort of just feeling so many feelings for her, and sort of very quickly, you know, developing this kind of intense friendship. I remember she left after that coffee day, she went on like a two-week back talking trip, and we were just talking about this. I literally was like, Oh, I should make her like a pack packet of goodies and leave on our doorstep so when she comes home, she has like snacks and like things. And I literally went and I put it on our door, and then I was like, that's weird. That's like kind of a lot. So then I was like took it back, and then I was like, No, that's not weird, right? And then like put it back on her door, like was really just like so much like like a rounded circle, like, what is happening, you know? And it wasn't very long before we were like, Oh my gosh, we are we're falling for each other, we're having feelings for each other. This is like and then I kind of realized what the big deal was about like being attracted to someone and sexuality and wanting to experience that with someone, because I was like, Oh my gosh, wait a minute, like it's it's kind of all clicking, and I think it was just kind of a right place at the right time. Like, I obviously fanny's the mirror I needed to to really see myself. And she came in at a time where you know, hindsight's 2020. I think I've I've always been attracted to women, but I didn't even have a frame of reference or anything for it. But at that point in my life, I obviously knew people who were queer. There was like a bigger storyline in the world, and so I was able to sort of imagine if that was my reality, would that be happy, you know, and and sort of realizing like, yeah, and I want to be with this person, and so we went on a whole journey of sort of a double down, like of not unpacking, not only unpacking our own sort of purity culture aversion to sexuality, but also embracing a sexuality, which we kind of knew nothing about, to be honest. You know, we're like, yeah, what what do we do? You know, like it's the fun and exciting, but at the same time, we're like there's this sort of double, like you're experiencing something so beautiful, and then you're also fighting a double shame storm in a way, right? Of like, should I be having sex and should I be having sex with a woman? And so you just we're processing through sort of that. Um in real time. I think it's just I always say like being queer has been one of the biggest gifts of my life because I think it's it's opened up my ideas about so many things in different ways, and you know, even my friends who are straight and are unpacking their experience with purity culture or whatever, they sort of had this prescribed idea of like you're gonna get married to me, and then here's what sex looks like, and here's what it is, and this is how you do it. Like, I didn't go to the sex education day in school or whatever, but like movies still told me, like, kind of here's how it goes, like, here's what it looks like, like and I think it's that way doesn't necessarily serve women in particular very well.
SPEAKER_01I agree with that.
SPEAKER_00And so I think it's like a beautiful thing to be in a queer relationship where you are figuring these things out in real time. And it's it's not based on a prescribed like, oh, well, here's what you're supposed to do, here's what I'm supposed to do. It's more of a like, oh, can we figure this out together? And that's just been a huge gift, I think, to in my life, and and something I'm very grateful for. Although it's hard, very, very hard initially to sort of undo my own understandings of who I was, what I wanted, what was okay, allow myself to be be happy in that. I feel like coming on the other side of it, I just so grateful for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you share a lot of that journey in your book, worth it. So if people are listening and thinking, oh, I'd I'd like to hear more about that, I would encourage you to check out Bean's book. It's lovely and you can't miss it. It has a beautiful cover. Beans is on it. Big bright yellow, big bright yellow. Love that. You flesh out your story in a lot of detail and uh and it's told uh in a beautiful way. And so because of what you've gone through in unpacking all that and figuring out your own self and your relationship, you have a new passion project that you're working on. It's not a secret, right?
SPEAKER_00No, no, it's not a secret.
SPEAKER_01But I'd love for you to share a little bit about it and why.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, so it's a podcast with uh my friend Jed, Jed Jenkins, also an author, and also just a really amazing person. The idea behind it is that we sit with people in their real time coming out stories. So, like on an episode. We will literally hear from someone in the first half of the episode and talk with them. Maybe it's a thing like, I want to come out to my mom or uh my coaches or my you know best friend. And so we talk to them about that. And the second half of of the episode is after they've done that, they come back and we sort of like process. So each episode you're getting to hear real time. I'm very, very excited about it, very passionate about it, because I think there are a lot of amazing things happening in the world in terms of queer representation and queer inclusion. You know, Pride Month, everywhere you walk in, it looks like rainbows just got like shot out of a cannon, which is super beautiful. Um, but at the same time, I kind of don't want us to think that we're we're on to greener pastures there because in the same way that we're seeing this celebrated and we're seeing more queer storylines, and Billy Eichner has a queer rom com coming out, and that's amazing. I think if I look at my queer friends and myself, I can't point to a single one of us who hasn't still uh massively lost something or unpacked something or dealt with shame or fought false narratives or all of these things and coming out. I just sat with a couple, some of our dearest friends who are getting married and them just saying, like, yeah, I don't know, you know, parents are coming, we hope they come, they're invited. I know in a lot of ways it seems like we move beyond these things, but I think as queer people, there's still so much to work through. And I hope that in being able to share these stories and for people to hear these stories in real time and participate with these stories, then we can start building a future in where these stories will look a lot different.
SPEAKER_01Hmm. So you're providing almost a supportive container for people to share and then be supported by you and Jed. Is that is that how it looks? Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And hopefully everyone who listened to the book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think there's not very many uh spaces like that for people to turn to. I had a recent interview with Alex, who uh did a documentary called Queery and he was alone and isolated he felt that so much of what you're saying is a lot of what he shared in different words, and that there just wasn't a space to be and learn and be in community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. And there's so much. There's still so far to go. There are certain things where it's amazing. Like, you know, Sammy and I got married, we just we casually walked into the whatever office and picked up our marriage license, and we're like so many of these things are are completely different for anyone who's just a generation above me. Like I'm living into that reality, and I'm super grateful for that. And I think as we continue, I think places for community and then normalizing sort of queerness in some public ways, right? Like last Christmas we were at like Queer Rom com came out, and I remember thinking like, oh, that is the first time I've ever seen two women in a rom-com, and I'm like a 35, you know. Because I think when it comes to like what your your work and and stuff is all about is getting to a place where you can enjoy your sexuality and and relish in it and have these meaningful experiences. And I think uh normalizing that and seeing two girls kiss on a Christmas Hallmark movie is a special thing, right? So it'll take some of the like shame away and you're like, I'm a girl kissing a girl, is this weird? Like, no, it's not weird, it's beautiful, right? And we can hopefully start to create that world by sharing these stories of how beautiful these, you know, queer people are and and and their journeys, and how can we sort of create more permission for pleasure to plug the thing right around those identities?
SPEAKER_01I'll be really anxious to listen in and I'm excited about that container that you're providing. It's a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I'm very excited about it.
SPEAKER_01I had a couple people in my community when they heard we were gonna talk say Can you ask her how do I love myself through this evolving journey? Like this evolving is so hard. How do I love myself through it? I wonder if you might speak to that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I know you literally didn't mean to, but that's uh I'm working on a new project, and that's a lot of the content kind of actually. Because I think it's kind of hard, right? There is an art to evolving that I think includes allowing yourself to make mistakes and to acknowledge those, it takes us to a level of maturity. So James Baldwin has a quote, it's one of my favorite James Baldwin quotes where he says, I imagine the reason people cling so tightly to hate is because they fear once the hate is gone, they'll be forced to deal with pain. And I think that's what keeps a lot of people in places where maybe they've outgrown or evolved past, but don't know how to move on, because it can be painful. So as much as I joke or laugh at this evangelical idea of purity culture at the same time in my 20s, I was like hired to speak at conferences full of young women where I perpetrated those same narratives, and that's actually incredibly painful to me. Like I literally sat in rooms with like hundreds of women, like using my story as an example for like purity, and that's kind of awful, right? Those are things that I've had to actually deal with and own and acknowledge, and I think our hesitancy towards wanting to acknowledge that we have been somewhere else and we've evolved. We don't want to do that because it comes with that pain, but I think that pain is such an absolutely necessary part of the process because it builds empathy for the people who are still there and it changes the way that we move everyone forward.
SPEAKER_01Can you repeat that?
SPEAKER_00It's like a lot harder for me to look at someone now and be like, these dumb dums don't know anything. I'm like, are they dumb-dums or are they me 10 years ago, right? And it's incredibly different, right? And and so now how do I address that? Is it just like throwing stones or is it an invitation to this evolutionary process that includes mistakes, it includes pain, it includes breaking down all these things. Like, if you're not laughing about stuff that you thought was true 10 years ago, like you're not doing it right, you know? If you're not looking back being like, huh, then you're not moving forward, right? That's just a part of it. And I think the embarrassment and the pain that comes with it is what keeps us from doing it, because they're like, oh, I don't want to feel like that was dumb. It's like, no, that was that version of you. Now be this one, and you can acknowledge that gap. It doesn't have to stop you from evolving. And I think people just want to feel like they're doing it right or they're good, and and all these things, which I understand, and and I do believe that people are good, but we've got to let ourselves move through those things because it's the only way I think we can see truly ourselves and each other's is just so much nuance.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Yes, and I just would add, you know, I'm on an evolving journey as well. And I mean, hopefully we all are. We're not the same person we were 10 years ago or five years ago or five minutes ago sometimes. It's really important, I think, to say that out loud sometimes in relation to our sexuality, in relation to our spirituality, you know, in relation to our community, our friends, all of it. I just, you know, since I'm in the sexuality space, it's so often people think you know, they don't realize we're gonna go through seasons and change. And this is a good thing. This is a normal thing. We should expect it.
SPEAKER_00Yes. We should expect it, and we should have frameworks, right, for it. Like we should, in the same way you talk about like when we're younger, like talk about sex, talk about all these things. It's like talk about change, talk about making mistakes, talk about learning something new and changing your mind, which is the most normal thing that's like ever happened. You know, you learn something new and you act accordingly. And I think the pressure and like our desire for safety or security or whatever these things are that we're longing for keeps us at a place where like, oh, I found my community, I found my place in the world, and like I just need to stay here. Like, so whatever I need to believe or do or act to like stay as a part of this community, I I want that because I want that safety and security. And I get that, but it's not what we were meant for.
SPEAKER_01And you have work that speaks to that in the diversity space for people like me who want to learn more and evolve. And I'd I'd love for you to share a little bit about that. We haven't got to touch on that, but it's a big part of what you offer as a human.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And these things are a big part of that work, you know. So I do like anti-racism trainings for companies and organizations, and one of the things that almost without fail, almost every single group I meet with, someone starts off with like saying, like, I just don't want to make a mistake. I don't want to, you know, and I'm like, well then you're then you're never gonna you should just leave. Like you should, you know, like this this isn't this isn't the work for you then, right? This isn't this isn't gonna be the work for you because what you're trying to do is create a more inclusive, a more transformed, a more mature, a more whole self. Um, it's gonna include the journey of making mistakes, and hopefully we can figure out how to do that so it minimizes damage and has accountability with it. But we have to create room for mistakes and we have to let people evolve, you know. It's so funny to me when people get like canceled or something over like old tweets, and I'm like, oh my gosh, what nine years ago or like ten years ago, I was probably tweeting like something problematic about Jesus. I don't even know. I don't know what it is, but I'm like, I wouldn't want to be held by like nine years ago. Hopefully, I'm hopefully I'm a different person, you know, and um, and so I think that's what shaped a lot of the work that I do in that space is the idea of like, yeah, it's painful to be like, hey, I think a lot of things I have are because my family made some decisions that were based in privilege and supremacy, and I'm not sure what to do with that now, and that's a much better place to start than like I refuse to acknowledge any of this, right? Um because I don't think we're gonna come out with clear-cut answers and what to do next. We just need to put our cards on the table if we even have a chance. Hopefully that's what I'm I've been able to do. That's definitely tough work, but I um yeah, yeah, I feel good about it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I've learned from you. I'm paying attention and I appreciate your just the way you open that space for you know older white lady like me. It's just there's room for us all to evolve, and you provide another beautiful container for that. So I'm grateful for your work in that. I know I've made a few mistakes with you early on, or I'm raising my hand. And you and yet here we are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And there's no way to not. There's just no way to not. And I, you know, I think uh we have to uh uh we have to be able to figure that out, you know. We just have to. And there's uh that's the only way forward, man.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I appreciate that idea of being gracious to ourselves and to others to make mistakes and like you said, uh uh it's better to move forward and screw it up a bit and then figure it out and apologize and then move forward a little more and you know, we're and allow space for that. And I think that's what you do well, and that's what you're communicating, which is you know, a lot of people never hear that beans. We think we've got to be perfect from the get-go, and that just isn't reality.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it's not super uh prevalent on the internet right now, but but you know, there's just a lot of room for, you know, I I talk about this all the time, like, you know, purity culture was not ideal. Going up deep in evangelicalism, I've had to unpack a lot. But I think about my parents who both grew up in just massively different environments than me, both involved in some gang activity and in different things. And, you know, in the late 70s, like early 80s, there was no like Brene Brown. It was like, if you want to be a better person, you go to church. Like that was like it's either the life you have or it's like church. And they chose church, and I'm honestly super grateful for that. You can have both and like I can be absolutely grateful that that is the route that they chose, and I do have a lot to unpack because that is the route that they chose, but ultimately I am grateful for that. That container that I grew up in and the things that I'm unpacking that are wildly different from the things they're unpacking from their adolescence, and so I you know, there's so much nuance in the conversation. I think we have this obsession with binaries of like, well, was it right or wrong, you know, for your parents to do that? It's like what they were doing the best they could, figuring it out, and now that's what I'm doing. And I can see both in it, you know. I could see how it was hard for me, and I can see also why it was better than some alternative options. Those don't cancel each other out, it's not mutually exclusive. We can hold more than one true thing at the same time.
SPEAKER_01We can hold more than one true thing at the same time. The both and and. We can, and guy, that could go across a whole whole nother conversation. We might have to meet up again. But why don't you share how people can find your book and your work and everything you have to offer?
SPEAKER_00Yes, you can find my book worth it. Literally anywhere. Books are sold. You can find me on the internet at BritBaren.com, 1T2Rs, Instagram at BritBaren. My website has everything. I have like a anti-racism 101 course if that's a conversation you're wanting to start. And I'll be sharing more about podcasts with Jed coming up soon and some other fun projects we got in the mix. So yeah, we'd love to connect with with anyone.
SPEAKER_01Wonderful. You're spinning a lot of little plates over there. I'm always anxious to see what new one's gonna come out.
SPEAKER_00It's the the Enneagram 7 Dream Life over here.
SPEAKER_01We might have to have an episode on Enneagram for those who are going, What is she talking about?
SPEAKER_00That would be fun.
SPEAKER_01That would be fun. And you are a seven. I love it.
SPEAKER_00I know.
SPEAKER_01Well, on this podcast, you know, we like to share something that just brings us delight. Just pleasure day to day, or maybe just right now in your life. Wonder if you might share something that brings you delight.
SPEAKER_00Everything. You know, I think it is such a joy. I think I am truly married to the most incredible person I've ever met. And I think, you know, we always try to create room to remember how lucky we are. Like I can't believe, you know, all the billions of people in the world. I I truly feel like I found someone who I couldn't ask for a better partner. So that just makes me happy every day.
SPEAKER_01Well, as we wrap up this time together, thank you for being with us. Thank you for sharing yourself with my community and with the world. I think you're a bright light, Beans. And uh I like this idea of uh holding more than one truth. The both and yeah. I wonder if that's something as people finish listening today that they might think about in one area of their life and how that could be true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. More than one thing can be true. And I've been thinking about that a lot lately. I actually wrote it down like on a little piece of paper and like put it on my desk because I was like, when you allow that, it takes a lot of the pressure off to be like, yeah, politics are wild and I'm having a great day. You know, I feel like there were just times like with the news where I'd be like, Do I get to be happy today? Because so many bad things are happening, or I'm like, can they be both? Or, you know, am I grieving, but am I am I happy? Or I you know, and it's like more than one thing can be true, and if I allow myself to do that, I a lot of the anxiety goes away. So I hope we can we can engage in a little bit of more of that.
SPEAKER_01Hmm, thank you. Thanks for being with us.
SPEAKER_00Wow, thank you, Mrs. Sharky. You're the best. She still calls me Mrs.
SPEAKER_01Sharkey. Oh dear. That's what Sherry calls you. So that's so fun as we wrap up community. I'm thinking about this idea of bull sand and also uh being sharing that we can have joy. We can seek pleasure in the midst of still pain or sorrow or things that are happening that are heavy. The bullsand, the joy and the other, whatever that might be. And I think if you think about that in those terms, uh that could really help you give yourself more permission for the first time.
