Understanding High Bottom Recovery with Matt Jerr

Episode 160: Understanding High Bottom Sobriety with Matt Jerr

In episode 160 of the Sober Vibes podcast, host Courtney Andersen welcomes Matt Jerr to the show to discuss high-bottom sobriety. 

Matt shares his story of addiction and recovery and unravels the concept of high-bottom sobriety – a crucial aspect of the recovery journey. Matt and Courtney advise those who’ve stumbled on the path to recovery to document their experiences, practice self-forgiveness, and, most importantly, be honest with yourself. It's time to explore new coping mechanisms that don't involve alcohol and embrace the challenges and rewards that come with a sober lifestyle. 

What you will learn in this episode:

• Matt Jerr's Story of Addiction and Sobriety 
• High-Bottom Sobriety 
• Tips to get back on the wagon 

Matt Jerr is the host of the Sober Friends podcast.

Thank you for listening, and we hope this episode helps.

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Transcript

Matt Jerr: 0:00

Slowly, deeply learn how to shine on with ocean view.

Courtney Andersen: 0:31

Hey, welcome to the Sober Vives podcast. I am your host and sober coach, courtney Anderson. You are listening to Episode 1. I still can't believe it, you guys. 160 episodes, I don't know how. Sometimes I'm like, how did this happen? But it has happened. We have done a lot of talking.

Courtney Andersen: 0:48

I hope you are having a wonderful December halfway through the month, almost at the end of the year. If you are having a hard time currently, please feel free to reach out. It's a rough time for some people, especially to this month. It's very, very triggering with all the holiday parties. You might be feeling a certain type of way around the holidays. All of that I totally get it. But drinking and drugs are not the answer. They are not the answer.

Courtney Andersen: 1:19

So I have a wonderful guest on today. His name is Matt Jair. He is the host of the Sober Friends podcast One of the hosts, I should say. I met him this past summer when I was on a podcast tour for the book If you haven't gotten it yet, please do Sober Vives a guide to thriving your first three months without alcohol, written by Moa. So I did his podcast and I really enjoyed our conversation with him and his co-host, which I hope to have his co-host on in season five and Matt shares his story of addiction and sobriety and recovery, and Matt makes so many great points In this episode today.

Courtney Andersen: 1:58

He also shares about an idea of this high-bottom sobriety and I liked how he explained that. So I hope you do too. And, too, he gives three tips to help you out of a relapse Because, as stated, I know it's hard. I've been talking to a lot of people who have said they are in the middle of a relapse right now and he gives some good pointers. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you haven't already, please rate, review, rate, review and subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode, and check out all of my freebies and the links below. Matt's information will be in the links below as well, and just remember, in the month of December you can join the sobriety circle and for your first month you will get $10 off with the code HOLIDAY. So come, use it. There's meanings, a great community, very supportive, and this is more now a group coaching program. All right, check it out, have a wonderful day and enjoy. Hey, matt, thanks for joining me today on the Sober Vibes podcast.

Matt Jerr: 3:08

Courtney, it's great to be here.

Courtney Andersen: 3:10

I know I'm very excited to talk to you. Last time we talked it was on your show.

Matt Jerr: 3:16

Oh, it feels like a forever ago. I think it was over the summer when it was screaming hot.

Courtney Andersen: 3:21

I know I wish for the summer weather.

Matt Jerr: 3:23

Yeah, not so much now.

Courtney Andersen: 3:25

No, because where you live and where do you live?

Matt Jerr: 3:27

Oh, I live in Connecticut. Ok, yeah, so you've 39 freaking degrees right now.

Courtney Andersen: 3:31

Wait till we get to like negative five and it's like gray for days.

Matt Jerr: 3:35

I'm a lot of vitamin D for that.

Courtney Andersen: 3:38

Tons of vitamin D, so why don't you share with me and the good people of the world when you got sober?

Matt Jerr: 3:45

I got sober on March 31, 2014. It was two days after my youngest was born, so I guess she's seen me drink, but no baby at two years old. She remembers that?

Courtney Andersen: 4:02

No, not at all.

Matt Jerr: 4:03

OK so she's the only one that's been there with me, totally sober.

Courtney Andersen: 4:08

And I have to say, though, that that's probably a wonderful thing to have of that connection with that child. How many kids do you have?

Matt Jerr: 4:17

I have three. Ok, I've got a 15-year-old, an 11-year-old and a nine-year-old.

Courtney Andersen: 4:21

OK, so having that connection to your youngest, it's like that, a girl or boy.

Matt Jerr: 4:29

It's a little girl.

Courtney Andersen: 4:29

Girl. So your girl, you have that special connection of seeing her every day and it's like your constant reminder of like no, I'm not going to drink.

Matt Jerr: 4:39

Yeah, yeah, her birthday is the 19th, so I always going to remember her birthday because I'm minus two. But yeah, every time I look at her, that's a reminder that I stopped when you came along.

Courtney Andersen: 4:51

So what was it? What brought you up to that point, in that moment of time where you just said enough was enough?

Matt Jerr: 4:58

I actually went a period of time without drinking after that OK, maybe a few weeks after that and there were times that I was going to drive into the liquor store and it's almost like, nope, I'm not doing that today. And there was a lot of that that I'm driving in and the wheel kind of jerked back. A few weeks later I was watching this show called Switched at Birth. This is I had this conversation with a newcomer just this weekend that she had the same experience and I had not heard that. I was watching Switched at Birth. One of the main characters was in recovery and she was sliding on bad behavior but hadn't drank. She was dating a bartender. The bartender gave her a glass of wine and she had a look on her face like this is not smart. Went up to her lips, she drank it and her whole face changed instantly. I saw that and I'm like damn it, I have the same problem. I'm identifying exactly with her. I'm an alcoholic.

Matt Jerr: 5:57

And then at that point everything in my body was on fire. I was very uncomfortable and I had the thought that if I'm going to stop drinking, the drinking is the least of my problems. I got to change everything and that it just was this wake up call of no, no, no. I am very sure now I had thoughts in the past that I had a problem. I talked myself out of it. Nope, I got a problem. This is how I feel with alcohol. This has to stop. And at that point it just was the idea of now I'm just not going to drink. I didn't go to like a 12 step meeting or anything immediately. It actually took a few weeks to do that. I just was all alone about this of no, I'm not going to drink anymore. I had this probationary period before I went into a 12 step group and really made it for sure yeah, I'm an alcoholic, I can't do this anymore.

Courtney Andersen: 6:51

How many weeks was that? How many weeks before you went? And I think this is a good point to share, because I think that people think that they need to have all of this stuff set up before they quit drinking, and I have found from everybody who has quit drinking it's really quite the opposite. It's the day that comes to you where you're like okay, I'm good, so I think it is good. It's like you've got to just not drink today and then go figure it out, so it's not like you have to immediately go in there as soon as you stop putting alcohol to your lips into an, A meeting or a therapist or wherever whatever type of help you're going to get.

Matt Jerr: 7:30

This was very gradual for me. I told my therapist and I held off on talking to my therapist about it for a while because I was afraid he was going to give me one of two answers. Both were unacceptable. One yeah, I think you do have a problem. I didn't want to hear that. Or he would say, no, I don't think you have a problem, which would make me feel like I was being a drama queen.

Matt Jerr: 7:52

And he gave me a third answer. He just asked questions and said if you think you might have a problem, why don't you? Have you considered going to AA? And I said absolutely not, absolutely not. I wouldn't go there because AA is not for people like me. Those are four people who are bums and trench coats, they've lost the will to live and they looked down at their shoes in a dank church basement. And that wasn't me. And he said okay, what do you got to lose? Why don't you just go there and make your own decision? You can go there, you can hear some things and figure out am I like those people? Maybe I have a problem, am I not? Maybe not. But don't just go to one meeting. Go to a few meetings and kind of figure this out for yourself. And that was a really good answer for me that I could. Okay, I'm not going to commit to this, I'm just going to go see and figure this out.

Matt Jerr: 8:45

And then I had to talk to my wife about it, because nobody told me to stop drinking. But I had to have a conversation with my wife about I need to go on a Sunday night at six to this meeting. Why are you going? And I thought about I'm just going to tell her alive why I'm going. Maybe I'm staying late at work. But I finally said no, I got to tell her. I got to tell her I think I have a problem and I want to go to some meetings and this is what I want to figure out. And she was incredibly supportive, saying you've got a lot of history. I don't think you had a chance.

Courtney Andersen: 9:18

So she knew.

Matt Jerr: 9:20

No, she said she didn't know Really that she was surprised. Other her mother in the past had said I'm concerned about the way he drinks, and she pushed it aside. Nah, I don't think so. But when you're an alcoholic, there are things that you do to cover it up. You learn the steps.

Courtney Andersen: 9:39

Yeah, well, let's share that, because I don't want to like go back into, like to share with me at night, but share with me the steps, because if somebody's listening to this, I want them to resonate with it right, and I want you to share the steps that you did to cover it up.

Matt Jerr: 9:57

There was a lot of drinking. That was done after she went to sleep. Okay, I would go to sleep afterwards and I might have a few, so I might have a beer While she was awake. She would go up to bed and then I'd have a few more. At the end the drinking was picking up.

Matt Jerr: 10:13

That I had picked up Scotch and I was bringing home boxed wine, and boxed wine is really easy to do because you have a glass. But I learn, don't be sneaky about getting the wine. Do it while you're talking to people. Be very deliberate about it, because if you do that, people are less likely to pick it up. It's like in the movie Shawshank Redemption where Andy is wearing those dress shoes and nobody noticed it because nobody looks at your shoes. So he's got his dress shoes on to prepare for his escape.

Matt Jerr: 10:47

Oh yeah, yeah, I was deliberate of I would just go and top off my wine, I would finish, I'd have a few sips, I'd go top it off, top it off, top it off. So I only had one glass, but I really had a lot. But you never saw my glass get empty. And I would do the same with Scotch and I would add maybe a few more than a couple fingers. And then I would be curious why I was hungover the next day. I only had a glass. Why am I hungover?

Matt Jerr: 11:15

You were drinking Scotch and you were drinking a lot of it. That volume of alcohol was a lot for you. So I would just do little things like that and then you didn't know I was drinking a lot. And the best thing about the boxed wine, they're not a lot of empties. You just have that box and then you just go get another box and put it on the counter. Lack of empties was what I was thinking through. That was really a time when I had taken a right turn yeah, right at the end, where I was doing that. That action was in the last six months or so. That definitely was a progression, right turn.

Courtney Andersen: 11:56

Yeah, you're giving me kind of flashbacks to when I lived 19,. I lived down in Greensboro, north Carolina, in my roommate and I would get boxed wine just because it was the cheapest, and then also two of, with my boyfriend at the time living together. When he would go to bed I would be in the kitchen like a pig swigging out of the Jameson bottle and then getting pissed. I wasn't hammered enough, isn't that crazy?

Matt Jerr: 12:28

Yeah, we learn how to deceive.

Courtney Andersen: 12:31

Totally. And then he would always be like, how much did you drink? If I came home I'm like, oh, one shot and a beer, and it would really be like 25. So how long?

Matt Jerr: 12:40

The normal people have. First of all get asked how much you drink and second of all, it's an acceptable answer to say just a shot and a swig or a shot and a beer. Nobody does that on a weeknight. Who doesn't have a problem?

Courtney Andersen: 12:53

Right. It's like saying thing, go into the doctor. It's like you're good, they know like a lot of doctors really know that you are lying to them. It's like just be truthful, Just be truthful, that's hard. It is hard, but-.

Matt Jerr: 13:06

Inactive addiction. You don't want to be truthful.

Courtney Andersen: 13:07

No, you don't, You're correct. You're correct about that. So, but yeah, they know that you're drinking more than just two glasses of wine a week at the doctor's office.

Matt Jerr: 13:16

If you're only drinking two, what are you doing? What else are you doing that you're in this condition?

Courtney Andersen: 13:22

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Courtney Andersen: 13:59

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Matt Jerr: 15:04

like a period of time. That was probably six months. I don't think that was much more than that.

Courtney Andersen: 15:08

So when you quit drinking, though, and got the clarity in sobriety and started healing and recovering and all of that did you see what an exhausting cycle that you were really living those last six months.

Matt Jerr: 15:20

I don't know, because I still was foggy for the first year. I was foggy with the mood swings. I discovered that I was really numb at the end and what I was feeling is I was moved to tears and I was laughing. I was just so up and down and crying all the time that I thought something was really wrong. I talked to my sponsor about it and he said nothing's wrong with you. You weren't feeling anything. Now the weight has lifted and you're feeling things. I was reading a lot about people who are famous in recovery. Roger Ebert was one of them, the film critic. He said it was a lot like taking a balloon, putting it under water and then letting it go. Alcohol was the weight and that's how my emotions felt, as I was letting the balloon go and it went boom right out of the bathtub. So I couldn't get a lot past that feeling of the emotions were all over the place.

Courtney Andersen: 16:19

That's nice to hear from a male perspective, because that first year I cried a lot. I remember making my amends to my brother and he asked Matt and he was like does she always cry like this? He's like every day. So it's nice because I haven't heard from a male yet who has expressed that that that first year it was really crying a lot and all of those feelings coming to the surface. For you.

Matt Jerr: 16:46

I went to this ice cream place in Rhode Island that is really, really good, and they have these pictures on the wall of these kids and I went to look at it and what it was? It was pictures of kids who were in foster care, who were looking to be adopted, and they were older kids and it occurred to me that these kids were kind of asking for their forever home and I left there and I sobbed the whole way home with this ice cream. I got home, I couldn't even talk to my wife that I was so upset and it was that these kids don't have a home and they're almost begging to be adopted and what must that be like. And it was so upsetting to me that I couldn't even control my emotions. And that was about a year, maybe two, after I got sober and I just remember that, that total lack of control in my emotions.

Courtney Andersen: 17:44

So it's crazy, but it is. It's like something like that, a picture, I mean. That is very powerful though, what you witnessed in that in that ice cream store, but it just anything can set you off and it does but and but it's normal and that's the whole thing, where people will be like, what is wrong with me? You want to run, what's wrong with it? It's like nothing, nothing is wrong with you. You quit drinking alcohol and now you're in this process of healing and rediscovering and understanding your emotions and that is all okay, this is normal. Like I love, shower Christ.

Matt Jerr: 18:19

You have to learn to be vulnerable. This is tough for me. It's still tough for me that I don't want to show my emotion a lot of times and be vulnerable. But you do have to be vulnerable with your recovery people because it also helps them. But you're not going to get better unless you're really honest with where you feel so that you can get help.

Courtney Andersen: 18:43

So after year one then, because you'll be, you'll be 10 years here 10 years in March 10 years in March. So do you feel like the process of your recovery each year? It's been kind of something different as you've gone along.

Matt Jerr: 18:59

Yeah, it's. It's that when you look at something in corporate world and they'll show a picture of progress is in a straight line. It's this loopy road through the, through the woods and over a mountain. There are times I go backwards, there are times I go forwards. There are times that I stay in place. It just totally depends.

Matt Jerr: 19:20

I also find that a recovery burst is preceded by pain. There has been some time. I just got a new job and the new job was preceded by incredible pain at work and a toxic culture, which is pain, pushes you to make a change. So I went and was looking and talking to people and I found something that was really a good fit for me. But I wouldn't have been open to that if I wasn't in a lot of pain and I was in a play. We also had money issues.

Matt Jerr: 19:54

I was in a very dark place nine years into recovery, but I also knew what to do. I knew to pick up the phone and talk to people. I knew to go to meetings. I knew to be honest with people that I'm in a very bad place. I started going to therapy again and it's funny that you do the right things even when no more money is coming in and you've got to figure this out. But you feel better of, okay, I will get through this. I don't want to be alive anymore. Nope, that's a sign that do something different. I'm not drinking. I never thought of drinking, but I was miserable. I have found that being in pain precedes a burst of recovery. That pain is almost like an earthquake when the fault is locked up. That's the pain. Then you get through managing that pain and you feel better. Now you've gotten to a point where, because of that pain, you've had to address something. Because you've addressed it, your recovery gets better.

Courtney Andersen: 20:57

I have never heard of that before and that can't be like it's so true. Yeah, I've never heard of that, and just like it's so true.

Matt Jerr: 21:07

October was such was one of the most painful months for me of my life. It was a dark period of time.

Courtney Andersen: 21:14

This, but which month?

Matt Jerr: 21:15

October of 2023.

Courtney Andersen: 21:16

Oh, okay, just this year.

Matt Jerr: 21:18

That whole month was a disaster Money issues, house issues, job issues and I just was in a very dark place and little by little I got through it. We figured out how to do this stuff. We figured out little by little. I've still got some money woes and some house woes that I've got to fix, but it's something that we can do. We're going to get through it. I'm not going to lose the house. The house is not going to fall apart.

Courtney Andersen: 21:45

Yeah.

Matt Jerr: 21:46

We will get through it one piece at a time, but it really took that pain all at once about a whole bunch of things to stop and go to therapy. We got to get a plan and I got to find a way out of this toxic work situation was what was really the thing. That was depressing everything.

Courtney Andersen: 22:06

That's very interesting. I'm glad you are getting through it. I have found in those moments, too, where you do surrender and you're like, okay, universe, but you have to start doing something different to get yourself out of that, where it's like, okay, a money situation is not working out for me right now. What do I need to do to create more? That was going out and getting your ass up and going to find a new job right Out of that work environment. I think, when you keep moving the energy forward out of a very painful time, that the universe does have your back and you have to be open to it because it's like all right, it can't get worse than what it was nine years ago. The tools I've learned in the past nine years are going to continue to help me move forward.

Matt Jerr: 23:00

I've got a friend who tells me all the time you're worried about this problem. This is easier than getting sober. Why can't you do it? Yeah, I'm like boy. That's a great way to put it into perspective. You're absolutely right, this is easier than getting sober. Sober was hard.

Courtney Andersen: 23:15

Hard. I say it all the time, matt. I don't have it in me when people are like what keeps you going? I'm like because I do not want to start back at day one or back at the beginning and it's too hard. I know for many people as we get older it will continue to get harder and harder and harder to get yourself back on track. I don't ever want to go back to that place.

Matt Jerr: 23:38

I don't trust. I have another recovery in me.

Courtney Andersen: 23:40

That's what I'm saying, same, same, because it's very easy. If you said effort and just went down the rabbit hole, it's hard to get out.

Matt Jerr: 23:55

Right.

Courtney Andersen: 23:56

It's hard to get out. So tell me thank you for sharing all of that and like I said, I'm very happy that you are moving past October of 2023.

Matt Jerr: 24:05

Right. We're in a sense, getting this new job and going through what I did. This has been a very successful year of the things that I accomplished, getting through that pain.

Courtney Andersen: 24:16

Yeah, I relate to this conversation more than so. I get it, I totally, totally get it. And there are beautiful things that happen when you thought you were going to go in one direction and that stopped working out, or you almost felt like it's like your soul needed to be free of just moving past that point. And that's me, because I really, really I liked this concept, this idea you shared about high bottom sobriety. Share what that is.

Matt Jerr: 24:48

That's an air quotes. The idea of high bottom sobriety is I never had an alcoholic seizure, I didn't get a DUI, I didn't lose my job directly because of alcohol, my wife didn't divorce me, I didn't lose the house, I didn't end up homeless. And it's very easy to look at that and say I'm not really an alcoholic because I didn't have all those things happen so I can continue to drink. I also felt like this in recovery because I would hear stories from other people where they lost everything. There's this old timer I know that literally fell into the emergency room, bleeding from every hole in his body. That didn't happen to me, so I don't deserve to be in a 12 step room with these people because they accomplished more, and that accomplishment is all these bad things that happen. I also look at these things as if you have that high bottom experience that you're still working hard, you're doing well at work, you haven't lost everything. Those of us like that actually have it worse because we have a higher pain threshold, that we're willing to bang our head into the wall over and over again and not do those things where he'll lose the house, that you're going to put in all that extra work to keep to juggle things and still drink. It never occurred to me that I could put the booze down and things would settle down. You don't have to wait until you're bleeding from your ass and your eyes to stop drinking. You could stop when you still have everything. In the end, it's not about things are really painful. For me, it's worth stopping when you realize that. Wait a second.

Matt Jerr: 26:30

When I put alcohol in my body there is that urge for me to want to continue drinking that I don't feel when I'm not drinking. If you have that feeling, that's an abnormal reaction. Normal people can have half a glass of wine and say that feels good, I'm going to stop. I'm feeling maybe even nauseous or a little tired. For us it's a stimulant. If you're feeling like I had a glass of booze and now I'm energized, like having a cup of coffee, that's abnormal. If you feel like I'm just getting started having one, that's abnormal. If you're feeling I need to be drawn in or I need to drink because that's my stress relief, think about stopping. The key there is you got to replace the thing that alcohol does for you, because for me, alcohol was the solution. It was a problem, but it was the solution to my problem If I get rid of that. I got to figure out something different so that I don't have to drink, but you don't have to wait until you've half killed yourself.

Courtney Andersen: 27:35

Yeah, I like that because I affirm believer that just because you're not living under a bridge, that doesn't make you better, because we all, at the end of the day, have an emotional dependence on alcohol. It just looks different for everybody.

Matt Jerr: 27:55

It does. Maybe I was lucky that I had more resources to get through that. Maybe if I was in a different place in my life and I had less resources, I'd be under a bridge.

Courtney Andersen: 28:06

That's true.

Matt Jerr: 28:09

If I didn't have a support system. If I'm all by myself, maybe I'm living under a bridge.

Courtney Andersen: 28:15

That's why, too, when people relapse it's very common one for people to relapse. If anyone has come to me when they say they have relapsed, it's like okay, everybody's situation is different because it goes back. Not everybody has the same support system. Not everybody has this amazing life, or financially stable, or someone's child could have just died. All we have to focus on is today. I will forever love that that came out of. 12 stops of you just have to focus on today of not drinking and go from there each day. You got to forgive yourself, too, of any of the relapses. It's like, okay, that's hard, though it is hard, but you can't. I don't feel like people should still be stuck there. It's like, stop beating yourself up with what happened a couple days ago. It's like where are you today? I look at it as. Look at it more as a learning lesson and whatever you were doing, try to do the complete opposite in that moment. I'm sure this, too. When you quit drinking alcohol, you really have to start living the complete opposite's life from your active drinking self.

Matt Jerr: 29:34

You got to do something that's different.

Courtney Andersen: 29:36

Completely. You got to figure out what that is Right. You got to sit the fuck down for a couple months. Might take you more than a couple months and really go inward if you were very, very social and being out and drinking and you just have to do what's best for you. I mean there's other tips in there, but you really have to do what's best for you, start becoming an honest person. I mean it was hard to tell the truth, but that's how you got to live.

Matt Jerr: 30:02

It was hard to tell the truth to myself.

Courtney Andersen: 30:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Jerr: 30:06

That was hard.

Courtney Andersen: 30:07

That was hard, so how about you share since we're kind of talking about this, though, because you would be good at this what are three ways people can get? I don't want to say get three ways people can help themselves out of a relapse.

Matt Jerr: 30:26

I would say I would want somebody to write it down. Write down what happened when you relapsed. Write it down. Write down what happened, what proceeded it, how are you feeling, what was different. I think you also got to forgive yourself, and that's the tough thing. You've broken the streak and you need to create a new streak and be okay with that. I'd say. The third thing is it really depends on how you get sober. For me, it's the 12 step group. If it were me, go to a meeting immediately and let people know. If it's not, whatever that thing is, if you have some type of community, let those people know I relapsed and I need help. Let other people help you.

Courtney Andersen: 31:15

I love it. Those are perfect. Did your therapist ever say to you, though, that they thought you had a drinking problem?

Matt Jerr: 31:22

Nope.

Courtney Andersen: 31:23

Never.

Matt Jerr: 31:23

It's never happened to me.

Courtney Andersen: 31:25

Never.

Matt Jerr: 31:26

Never.

Courtney Andersen: 31:27

I am.

Matt Jerr: 31:28

I wasn't honest. Yeah, that's true.

Courtney Andersen: 31:31

That's very true. I don't know. I can't remember. I told you on your podcast, but I fired my therapist when she suggested like maybe this is the one thing that you need to, should give up.

Matt Jerr: 31:41

I was waiting for somebody to tell me make an ultimatum to me, make it easier. I had to make my own decision. Nobody did.

Courtney Andersen: 31:48

Yeah, yeah, that's true, maybe that was for the best. Probably, Probably for your situation. I hear too a lot, though. A lot of women tell their therapist they think they have a drinking problem and they're dismissed of like no, you don't, you're fine.

Matt Jerr: 32:03

I think that's a lot of therapists don't understand alcohol use disorder. That's also the key. You can it's very easy to slice and dice who you want to go to and look up a therapist who has experience with alcohol use disorder or 12 steps or alcoholism, however you want to put it in. You can do a query and find people who have experience with this problem. They're going to give you a better answer.

Courtney Andersen: 32:32

Yeah, absolutely yeah. Or addiction, because there's just some therapists by their bio. It's just, they just say addiction.

Matt Jerr: 32:39

So Diction's good.

Courtney Andersen: 32:41

So definitely. If you are in the field of looking for a therapist, those are who you want to seek. So absolutely, matt, thank you so much for being on the show today. Where are you, you're welcome.

Matt Jerr: 32:54

You can find me at soberfriendspodcom. I'm on Instagram at soberfriendspod. You can listen to our podcast, Sober Friends. You can find it anywhere. Give it a listen. It's going to be something that helps you.

Courtney Andersen: 33:11

I have to say that was one of my most. I really had a good time on your guys' show. I really enjoyed that talk that we had, so I appreciate it yeah. I did too. It was a good chat. So if you guys haven't listened to that, make sure you check out Matt's podcast, because I do. I do want to have your partner on for season five down the road, perfect.

Matt Jerr: 33:32

Yeah, let's see if you know.

Courtney Andersen: 33:34

He's got some stories too.

Matt Jerr: 33:37

Yeah, he has a totally different experience and Relapse was a big part of his recovery.

Courtney Andersen: 33:41

Yeah, right, right, right. His story Right. How long have you been doing the podcast for?

Matt Jerr: 33:47

Since November of 2020. So I guess we're at three years now.

Courtney Andersen: 33:50

Matt's, not my forte. The what.

Matt Jerr: 33:53

Matt is not my forte.

Courtney Andersen: 33:56

Do you guys take breaks or have you gone straight through?

Matt Jerr: 33:59

No, we go straight through. Sometimes we tape a lot so that we always have at least one kind of in the chamber so that if we can't record one week, it doesn't look like we've ever taken a break. I think I've missed one episode in three years. Otherwise like we're like a podcast. If you want to be successful as a podcast, somebody told me, be like a cockroach. Just never die, just keep going and going and going. That's what we do. Yeah, as part of my recovery, it's a meeting.

Courtney Andersen: 34:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks so much for sharing all that you have today with us. I will link all of Matt's information in the show notes below. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Silver Rights Podcast.