(Ep. 40) What You do is NOT who you ARE.

What if the harsh way you judge other people is really just a mirror of how you've been treating yourself?

In this episode of Triggered & True, Laura Duncan and co-host Brian Freise return to the idea at the very center of the whole show — who you are is not what you do — and follow it into a place that stings a little: judgment. 

Most of us look at ourselves through the lens of what we do, good or bad, and then we do the same thing to everyone around us. This conversation gently exposes what's actually happening when we judge and offers a far more freeing way to live.

Laura and Brian unpack why harsh judgment is really displaced pain — a full-blown form of blame that lets us feel better by making someone else "worse" — and why it always circles back to how we feel about ourselves. 

They look at how a polarized culture feeds this, why our reactions to hot-button topics come from our own inner world, and a beautiful twist on the golden rule: to truly treat others as you'd want to be treated, you first have to treat yourself that way. 

The payoff isn't just kinder relationships — living from "what you do matters, but who you are matters more" is what guards your own heart against the bitterness and resentment that quietly eat at you.

In this episode: 

🔹 Why we judge others by what they do — and how that mirrors how we treat ourselves 

🔹 Judgment has displaced pain: how making someone "worse" lets us avoid our own shame 

🔹 Why a polarized culture pulls us to extremes — and why our reactions come from our inner world 

🔹 The golden rule, reversed: treating others well starts with treating yourself well 

🔹 How living in love guards your own heart from bitterness, resentment, and unforgiveness

📩 Get your free Weekly Dose of Compassion — two short notes in your inbox every week. One to speak over yourself. One from Laura: https://www.lauraduncan.com/pl/2148814868

🔗 Learn more:

https://triggeredandtrue.com

https://lauraduncan.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Thank you everyone for joining us for this episode of Triggered and True. In this episode, we're going to be talking about who you are is not what you do. In life, most people tend to look at themselves through the lens of what they do, good or bad. And we're going to kind of talk a lot about that today. We're going to talk about judgment. We're going to talk about the golden rule treat others as you'd like to be treated. And we're going to give you some great homework at the end that you can apply to your own life. So strap in and get ready for one heck of an exciting episode. Hello and welcome everyone to this episode of Triggered and True. Laura, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_04 1:06

I'm doing good. I'm excited for us to be able to share today.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I thought for the listeners to get just a little more perspective. And I'm surprising you with this. I didn't prep you on this ahead of time. That's okay. Um, just share one exciting thing going on in your life right now.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

One exciting thing. Wow, I'm on the spot. Um, let's see. One exciting thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

It can be work-related, it can be personal, it can be whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Anything. Definitely not prepared for this, but there's exciting things. Um, so let's see. Um I think work-related, even though I mean I have personal things too, is um, I'm just excited that we're growing so much with the compassion method. It's really exciting to hear people specifically, it's always been kind of fun, people from other countries listening to the podcast or connecting to the course or connecting to any other thing services that we you know offer. But like um being able to hear people that I've never met that have no point of familiar contact, meaning that when I first started, it felt like anyone that came to me, it was it was first like friends and then friends of a friend and then friends of a friend.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

You could trace how they found you really easy.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

Yeah, if I ask the question, how'd you hear about me? They heard about me from somebody that I know. And so they still feel connected to the people that I know. And I'm finding more and more as um we're able to share this with more people, that they're people that have no connection whatsoever with myself or anyone that I know, and they're finding the podcast or they're finding resources and they're connecting to it. And then the testimonies and the feedback of how it's impacting them. I just think it's really amazing that um that's happening. That's actually really exciting for me. I didn't even actually mean to connect it to um the podcast, but I literally, like two days ago, someone was asking me, What's your most exciting thing about work? And that was my most exciting thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

That's cool. You know, I I agree with that. One of the things that's always fun for me is when um, you know, when people put in a question and they said, Well, I've listened to every single podcast and now I'm going through the second time.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

They're like, Yeah, and they're like really taking this as uh, you know, the podcast series as just an organized teaching that's helping them walk through and learn and just how much they're able to glean from that. And then some of the questions they ask, you can always tell by the questions how much, how deep are they wanting to go?

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

It's it's fun.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Yeah, and there's have been some deep questions that really kind of moves my heart a little bit to be like, wow, this is really like being applied and taking to heart. And I'm just really impressed with people's hunger and desire to learn more about the compassion method, but ultimately more about themselves through the compassion method.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

And it just reiterates more and more what we always know. Like every human being is carrying pain.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Every human being is coming up with ways to manage that pain. And the ways people manage the pain are like just infinite number of ways. But the way you actually get healing from the pain is to go back to it instead of try to manage it, actually go through it, apply comfort, learn how to apply comfort, learn how to apply compassion, learn how to get your needs properly met. And all of a sudden, that pain isn't so scary anymore and it doesn't need to be managed.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

I know that's one of my favorite things about the compassion method. It's not a management process, it's a deep restoring process that allows you to naturally be who you are once that pain's comfort.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

I was talking to somebody the other day and just going through the lists of all of the ways they manage. Like they didn't even know they were going, they didn't even know they were giving me a list, but like all the things they've tried, all the things they're doing. And I'm just like, Oh, that's exhausting.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

No, it really is because you can't keep it up forever, no matter how self-disciplined you are. You can't maintain it forever because it's manual, it doesn't automatically happen.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Sadly, though, I actually think they can kind of keep some people.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Some people are really good at it.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Well, they can manage it for their whole earthly life.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Yeah, and then I'm like, you miss so much of life, you do, so much energy when managing pain, staying stuck necessarily, even though we do feel stuck, it's bigger than that. It's not being able, like you said, to enjoy our lives because we're so busy managing pain that we never actually get to take care of it.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

And I'm still busy, so busy.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

We just keep managing it. I'm still busy, subconscious, too.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

I'm still, I'm still not applying it everywhere. I'm still busy, I'm still finding new places, yeah, new avenues. And that'll be that'll be the exciting thing is that I'm uh I'm much more aware uh from working through this process with you. So yeah, definitely. Well, today's topic is related to kind of a popular saying you have, but the title of the podcast is what you do is not who you are.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

And you have a saying that says what you do matters, but you matter more. And I think it's always fun. I've heard you say this like when uh when you first introduce someone, what do they automatically like? How do you describe people? A lot of times people describe themselves based on what they do.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

Exactly. Like, yeah, do you want to share a little more on that?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:27

Yeah. I mean, that's commonly even going back to childhood, when you ask a child, who are you? They usually even say what they're doing. But it gets worse and worse as we get older, where our identity is wrapped up in what we do. And it can be very pronounced when you're in um, you know, religion or Christianity that what you do determines who you are. And also in the workplace in any area that we are thinking that this is what we do, especially if you found a level of success in something that makes you feel better about yourself, then you're gonna be emphasizing that as your identity because you feel so good about what you do. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't feel good about what we do. It's good to celebrate yourself and have accomplishments. But if that's my whole identity and that's what I do determines who I am, it's always gonna be subject to, you know, being able to do those things in order to maintain your value.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah, I read a book once about a man that was a doctor and got a lot of identity from being a doctor. And then when he um, I think he was a surgeon too, and then as he got older, he developed something where his hand was shaking really bad and he could no longer be a surgeon, and the son describing just how much you know, like he wasn't a person, he wasn't a full person anymore. Wow in his mind, because he was getting so much identity from being a surgeon, but now he can't. Yeah, you know, and that was like classic, like he doesn't know who he is. He thinks being a surgeon is who he is.

SPEAKER_04 7:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

That's just how he expresses. That's just one of the ways he expresses.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

That's how you're one of the many ways that he could express who he is. That just happened to be the most popular and the most fulfilling and the most satisfying. But at the end of the day, he has so many other ways that he could express himself. And that was just one of them.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

So let's break down your your quote that you say very often, what you do matters, but you matter more. Can you just elaborate a little more on that?

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Yeah, so it actually started from the basis of shame. So shame says what you do is who you are. So we talked just now about someone doing something like being a surgeon, which is an amazing thing that that man was able to do. So we look at the good things, but more often than the good ways that we see ourselves, we usually see ourselves through the lens of shame. And lens of shame says what I do, good or bad, is who I am. And when we live like that, it hinders compassion. Because shame is in shame keeps us from being able to apply compassion. So the only way to actually access compassion rather than shame is to be more connected to who we are and who others are than what we do or what they do. And so that's kind of the core if compassion, the compassion method, if compassion is one of the core healing agents in the compassion method, then shame is in direct defiance of compassion. So being able to teach people and help people understand that, well, what they do does matter. That's why I say it that way. Our actions matter. What we do matters, but we matter more. And that begins the journey of discovering who we are. Because if you say that and a person doesn't know who they are apart from what they do, then they can't honestly say that. So what most people are saying, if they have some level of self-confidence or some self-awareness, they're usually saying, um, I matter, but what I do matters more. And we're trying to flip it so that we can honestly say that, not just because I'm saying that's the right way to think, but that we actually believe it to be true about ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Yeah. Yeah, you could definitely see how, you know, the example I used before was someone, you know, being a surgeon seen as a positive thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

But imagine if you were uh uh committed some sort of a crime or had to had made some horrible mistake.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Yeah. And I find that so strongly with people that have struggled with um sexual addiction or any addiction, as you know, they're so stuck in the addiction trying to medicate the pain. But they the biggest problem is if they just saw it as an addiction, but they didn't see it as their identity, they would be more easily able to overcome that addiction. But the sad part about it is when it's drugs or um porn or any of those types of things, when you have those things happening, people start to believe that that is literally who they are.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

And if it's who you are, you can't change it. You can change what you do, but you can't change who you are.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

I think it's a fair time to think about this in terms of uh judgment. So like judgment has kind of a judgment itself is kind of a trigger word, like judging others. And um, kind of when we get into this, you know, especially people that you know, you've talked about your little bit of your upbringing, like you always did the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

So like if someone did the wrong thing, and then you kind of came with a teaching, like, you know, what you do matters, but you matter more. You're like, you're excusing what they did. Yeah, it built it. How can you do that?

SPEAKER_04 11:33

Yep. And that and it always feels like you're saying that it's okay that it doesn't matter what you do.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yep, and it's kind of like judgment, like that's kind of a trigger word for people, like you're not supposed to judge others and so on and so forth. But the reality is that it's really kind of uh since it's trigger, people aren't, you know, they're in their fight or flight part of their brain around the word a lot of times. Yeah. So while you just break down how you view judgment and what it really is and how we're actually judging all the time, and that's a good thing. Always are, exactly. But the difference between what people sometimes think of judgment versus your version of judgment, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

So when I'm judging behavior, but I'm not judging a person, um, that's actually very important to be able to know that. You know, we teach our kids to use good judgment, that means that they learn right from the way.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Don't get in the car with the stranger, exactly. From a if someone's acting really strange in public, maybe go the other direction. That's a judgment.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Yeah, those are all judgments that are actually protecting us and protecting others because we're able to use good judgment to be able to take care of ourselves. And so judgment is not meant to have a negative connotation to it, it's actually meant to be a safeguard that actually keeps us safe and helps us discern and know what we're meant to be doing in this world. But because of our pain, when you put pain plus judgment equals condemnation, shame, bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness, those words are what end up being connected to judgment when we filter it through our pain. And that's why even when like even judging what you do matters, but you matter more. When people get that upset about it, so you're just saying what people can just go around doing whatever they want, hurting anyone they want, it doesn't matter. And I'm always like, nope, it does matter.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

But that feeling that we get, even sometimes with this very phrase, is coming from we were judged for what we did. Nobody saw us, our caregivers didn't see us for who we are. So whatever I didn't receive, I'm gonna be as harsh or harsher with myself and others in that area because I didn't receive that. The people that are judging from pain are gonna have the biggest cases against others. But those that are judging with love don't keep record of wrong. Even though they see record of wrong, they don't hold on to record of wrong. But when we lack love because we're seeing life judgment through pain, then we're not able to let go of that record of wrong. We're not able to let go of punishment. We're not letting we're not able to let go of trying to get the person to suffer because of what they did and how it hurt us. And almost all people that we judge has a personal wound connected to it.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Well, you talk about it as a mirror image.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

So expound on that. Like so if if you know, I guess this ties to me also to the golden rule. You know, we want to we want to treat others the way we treat ourselves. Yep. Okay. Or we desire to be treated. But the reality is that when we're judging harshly, the mirror image is that's also how we're we treat ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

Yep. And we actually are doing the golden rule, but not in the positive right way that it's meant to be communicated to love. We're actually treating other people the way we judge and treat ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

So that mirror image is whatever's within me that I haven't settled, that I haven't taken care of, I'm going to see within you. And I'm going to want it to stop inside of you so that it can relieve my pain in that same area. Uh, for example, if homosexuality is a difficult topic for you because you haven't dealt with your sexuality, or you were teased for your sexuality, or you, you know, whatever it is that you had a connection to, when you see somebody else in homosexuality, it's not just going to be about is it right or wrong. It's going to have the pain judgment connected to it. And you're going to want to codependently have that person stop their homosexual behavior so you can be okay. Because their behavior shines a light on your behavior or your inner world, your pain. Even if it has nothing to do with homosexuality, it's still going to be connected to what's going on inside of you.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

And it could be the reverse, too, of someone that is against, let's say, homosexuality and you judge them harshly because that's coming from some sort of a pain inside of you as well.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

Exactly. Yeah. And you can kind of see those polarized sides that, you know, you're trying, you're not either okay with it or you are okay with it because of your own pain. And that's not necessarily you deciding what is true for you. It's coming through that pain, which ultimately at the end of the day, we're not able to love. And whether it's right or wrong, love is what we're we're meant to walk in. We're meant to love others the way that hopefully, as we take care of our inner world, we love ourselves. That means that you could love anyone, even if you don't agree, even if you don't believe the same things. You could still love if you didn't have your own pain happening within you in that subject.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We live in a very polarized landscape. We've talked about some of the reasons for why that is. And whether that be politics or whatever topics, uh, just kind of the way the media is fed to us, it tends to drive us to tends to drive people to some significant extremes.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

Based on their interpretation, which is again always our internal world.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Yeah. But I really like that that mirror image thing, how we judge others is a reflection of how we're treating ourselves. And what you talked about at the beginning, you said when you have that temptation to judge severely, that's coming from a place of pain.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

That, and you used one example of you were judged severely in that area. You felt that judgment. Yeah. You feel that pain. And you want to displace that because it's kind of like blame. Judgment becomes blame. It's just like it's like, it's like blame uh as it's worked its way all the way through all the steps. Like it's full-blown blame. Like, I'm gonna dump all this over there, judge them harshly because I'm gonna somehow feel better.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

Cause if they're a little bit makes us feel like we're we are better, you know, if we can judge them harshly, it makes us feel like we're not as bad. It's the same thing when someone says they have it way worse than I do to create gratefulness. It's the same thing of saying they're way worse than I am to make me feel good in the same way. And so being able to make somebody worse unfortunately makes us feel better. And the reason why is because if I'm busy judging you for how bad you are, I don't have to see how bad I feel about myself.

unknown 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

That I'm still saying what I do, who what I do matters more than myself if I'm judging you in that same way.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Well, to me, it's very ironic and it's kind of really a cool thing that if we really have a heart to fulfill the golden rule, to treat others the way we desire to be treated, yeah, we have to first treat ourselves the way we should be treating ourselves. Yeah, with compassion, yeah, with understanding. And then as we treat ourselves that way, a wonderful side benefit, which is which is the compassion method, because it's a hundred percent focused on your heart.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Because the compassion method is nothing about how to get your spouse to do a better job.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

I know a lot of people wish it was, yeah. Or your kids to, you know, do the dishes, everyone else to do it, then we don't have to face ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Yeah. So the compassion method is 100% designed to help you be the steward and caretaker of your heart, which is the most empowering thing because you learn that, hey, I can do this. Yeah, the world doesn't have to change.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Exactly. We need to do this. So empowering to know that I can love regardless of another person changing and changing their behavior. And the reason why I say this is and a lot of this is emphasizing like how we treat others, and that's important, of course. But the reason why I want to live knowing that what another person does matters, but they matter more, is because it protects my heart from bitterness, resentment, unforgiveness. Um, those bitter feelings, they eat at you, whether you ever even express them to another person or not. If you never, for people that aren't, you know, expressive, they're thinking these thoughts all the time and it's eating at them. So whether you ever treat the other person the way we're talking about or not, how you feel about it is actually going to destroy you. So I want to live in a place of love. Because if I live in a place of love, judgment, love, compassion, care for others, it actually takes care of me. So it's not just how I'm going to treat other person, it actually safeguards my own heart.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Yeah. You know, and I think it's a further empowering moment when we can learn to separate our own personal behaviors from who we are. So that happened for me five years ago or whatever when I was in your first workshop. I've shared this before. But when I finally volunteered and I stood up and I'm standing there, and you're like basically, you know, um embarrassing me. Yeah, by exposing me. You expose me. So you expose me. So it was in a good way. But you uh I was describing something, and I think I even used the words, I'm a grumpy person. And you just looked at me and looked me in the eye. No, you're not. That's not who you are. Yeah, you may act that way when XYZ happens, but it was really just like the way you said it to me, I was like, wow, that's not who I am. And like in that moment, I was like, I'm not a grumpy person. This is my response to pain.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

That I have not dealt with.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Yeah. And there's so many things like that that are habitual. So we start to believe that that's who we are.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yep. Yep. And the people around you sometimes reinforce that. Reinforce it, exactly. You know, if it's the fun, the funny part of that is what I shared in my testimony on the podcast times ago was uh when I was called the fun sucker. So they're like, Dad's got the straw in his mouth again. Sucking the fun out of the room. So, but I'm like, I'm not really, that's not really who I am. Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

And we've seen it come up time and time over the years. I mean, even most recently at your daughter's wedding, how you know, and most listeners know that you don't drink, but you're able to still have such a good time and enjoy and celebrate and be connected to the whole joyful process. Even though we talked about, you know, there's always some sad or hard parts connected to it. You were able to be joyful in that. And that's such a huge testimony. Cause imagine if you still believed you were a grumpy person and you showed up as a grumpy dad to your daughter's wedding. And like and you lived up to that expectation and you were grumpy at the wedding, how much you would have missed out on versus now you've been able to fully participate and be connected to, you know, and have fun and enjoy and add to it. You know, if I interviewed your um girls and your wife right now and say, you know, do you think Brian was able to add to the wedding? I guarantee you they would all agree that you added to it.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

And not just with finances.

unknown 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

He added to it.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah. So, like a wonderful side benefit then of separating our behaviors from who we are is that obviously we're going to judge our ourselves less harshly, but the side benefit is we're going to judge others less harshly.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

You know, and and our likelihood of seeing other people separate from their behaviors, like who they are versus how they're acting.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Like that ability is going to go up. And and that whole thing, like, you know, what you do matters, but you matter more. You know, taking that to like even extreme, like someone that has committed, you know, the most horrific of acts that, you know, are worthy of or would qualify in some states of like even the death penalty.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

As I've learned this more, I've literally, I've really thought a lot more about the death penalty. Like I've never been, I guess I went from, you know, kind of like neutral-ish on it, but I've never really been a fan of it conceptually because it felt like it just didn't feel right. And one of the things why I've, as I've learned this process, why I really don't like the death penalty is that I don't think that is within our rights as human beings to condemn someone in that way. But that doesn't mean that their actions that they did don't the consequences.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Oh, definitely. They deserve they never get out of prison.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Yeah, they can never be trusted in society again.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

But I also would have looked at that before as like, well, that's the end of their life. Like, how miserable would that be? But now that I know about the compassion method and that this is an inside thing. A person could be their true self behind bars for the rest of their life, and they could be a huge contributor to society from behind bars.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Talk about a fertile mission field. You're in a prison filled with other people. Like your testimony could like one of my friends that was in prison for uh nine years. His when he got out, like he was just he was bawling as he was telling me this. He's like, he was talking to me about the lifers and how like he got connected more to the lifers that were in prison. Wow. And this one guy that was a lifer was up in his 60s. This guy killed a police officer when he was 18.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Like that kid that was eight, like he's not that kid anymore, obviously, you know. And he talked about the impact that man had on his life. Wow. And I was like, you know, there's still value, there's still work, still there's still value. That guy is living his life, yeah, expressing his true self behind bars. And like the death penalty, like it cuts off a person's opportunity to actually be their true self that can still happen behind bars. And I am a thousand percent realistic that some people could never be trusted back in society again.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

They never learn boundaries, they never learned how to behave behave in a society that's in a healthy way. I mean, everyone wants to go to the extremes to because it makes us feel safe to the extremes. If we can say, well, what about people that have murdered people? Then we can actually say that what you do matters more than you. We want that to be true because of shame. We want that to be true because it makes us feel safe to say if you do something really, really bad, then you don't matter anymore. But think about it in reverse. Even if I did something really, really wrong, I would still want to matter. I would still want to have some value, some worth, some humanity, even if I it did something terrible. And I still feel like every human not deserves isn't the right word, but every human is meant to still have love and connection, even if they did something really, really wrong.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Yeah. It's not so much deserves, it's just the grace given to us.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Exactly. That's why deserve isn't the right word.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

But it's like unmerited favor, but we've all been given this grace, and that grace is a gift. And why can who are we as humans to take that gift away from someone? Not to not to mention, let's not even mention about how the fact that we're humans and we can make mistakes. And there's people on death row that were not supposed to be on death row that didn't actually do it. Yep. And all the stats about, you know, oh yeah, what race of people ends up on death row, more likely, the socioeconomic things.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Can they hire a so many factors to it that is at the roots of a lot of what we're talking about today?

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Um, we kind of we kind of, like you said, we kind of went off topic a little bit, but not really. We just went to the extremes.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

And that's where people and everyone wants to do. Does it still is it still true there? Because at the end of the day, we all want to know based on our own guilt and shame, even if it's the worst, will we still be loved? We're all looking for that, and that's why we fight against it. That's why we say, but what about the murderer? Everyone deserves love or deserves exactly the grace, grace has been afforded to everyone, exactly. The absolute boundaries on it based on people's inability or ability to be able to function in society and to protect society, but there's still ability for redemption.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Absolutely, yeah. This kind of leads to a listener question I think is real pertinent. Um, the listener asks, um, she says, I'm about five podcasts into your content. I'm wondering so far, is our true self supposed to be understood as flawless? Like if we live there, we'd never do or think or feel anything wrong. And the compassion method is built on a foundation that uh you've said this to me, and this came up in my notes when I was rereading some of the notes from our one-on-one sessions. You said we are not working from lack, we're working from perfection. So in that, in that end, you're looking at as human being and in in my belief system as being God part of God's creation, made in God's image, yeah, was made perfect.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

Yeah, original design.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Just because pain came in and distorted the original design doesn't mean that we weren't created in his image, which would be perfect. That's our created self.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Yep. And then we do the crazy things that we do. Yep, and we all know. Those crazy behaviors every day sometimes have horrible consequences. Those kinds, you know, we do those because because of pain and because of unmet need.

SPEAKER_04 30:27

Yep. But it doesn't change who we are. And that's the thing, like when people try to go find themselves because they've you know behaved in certain ways where they feel like they lost themselves. I'm like, it's all still inside of you. It just got covered up by ultimately your perception of yourself based on what you've done or not done. But once you as the individual can truly believe that you matter more, all of a sudden you're able to see yourself for who you really are and see with curiosity why we did what we did.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

And that's what the compassion method is all about meeting getting the needs met so that we can actually do that discovery and start to truly live for a lot of times. People for the very for the very first time since they were very, very young.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

Mm-hmm. I know exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

And I think about people get to start to be yeah, like who they really were and like themselves again.

SPEAKER_04 31:19

That's one of the my favorite things about it. Yes, it's amazing to heal pain, and that's the beginnings, but then it's just so cool to see the unveiling of who people are, and we are so much better than we think we are through that lens of shame.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah. I had that revelation the other day when uh a particular thing came up that I don't really enjoy doing, and I was like gonna work myself up to force myself to do it. And then I was like, I just, it's just kind of not me. And that's just kind of okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

What which is so important, like we were a small conversation before we got started about how, like, when someone's not on the right seat in the bus, how much it negatively impacts an environment because they're not doing what they were meant to do, which this is such a good example of that. When you stop doing things because you have to do them, because it's the right thing to do, because you're supposed to do them, and you do what is in your heart to do, which would be what's connected to who you are, everything functions the way it's meant to. If everyone did was their truest self and function from that place, jobs would be more effective, home life would be more effective, the whole world would be more effective because we weren't all trying to do things because we're supposed to do it to be good people instead of being ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yeah. But with this, with this process becomes a confidence in who you are. Like before you're on shaky ground, like oh yeah, you don't really know who you are, you don't really have no confidence in who you are, you have no sense.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

And based on your childhood development, what would happen if you would have said, you know what? I'm not feeling it.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

No, no, that would not have been acceptable.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

You're going, you're doing yeah, you're going, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

And so being able to have the ability to know yourself enough to be able to say that, especially as an adult.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Well, and and one other thing that I want to talk about the so if we identified that we're working not from lack, like a lot of people think lack, like I need to go get this skill, I need to go get this teaching, I need to go get that so that I can become a complete person. Yeah, let's let's back up the bus. You're coming from the wrong place. You already are a complete person. You were made a complete person. Yeah, like all everything is in there. Okay, it's all in there. So if you come from that standpoint, it's it looks different, like this desperation to get to the next seminar, to learn the next thing, to whatever isn't there, it's more of okay, it's there. How do I discover it? And then it becomes that. But within that, you know, there's still a level of personal responsibility. You don't like using the word responsibility, you instead use the word privilege. We have the privilege of taking care of our heart. We have the privilege of getting our pain, learning how to comfort our pain.

SPEAKER_04 34:12

Responsibility is definitely not a bad word at all. But most people, when they think about their hearts and be responsible for their hearts, they look at it as work. And if you're trying to have a love relationship, I gotta be honest with our heart.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

I gotta be honest. There is an element of this that's work, especially at first.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

No, it is. No, definitely. It's working there's a lot of work, but it's like if you're in it, would be like getting married and being like, I am all I'm getting married and it's gonna be so much work. And is marriage work? Yes, it is. So it's not being in denial that it's gonna be work, but your main goal was love, yes, and work came in to make love happen, but it wasn't your main goal, it was work. And if you're lucky, you get some love in there. So I think it's the motivation of where it comes from. But I agree with you, it is actually probably the hardest work you're ever gonna do emotionally to be able to face our pain. So, yes, it is very challenging. It is work in the beginning, especially as you're getting your feet underneath you and getting confident and secure in it. It definitely is, but it's the motivation of the heart that's important. And that's why I reward it as a privilege versus work because otherwise we literally start treating ourselves that way. Great, you're triggered again. How often are you going to trigger? We've been doing this for X amount of time and you're still triggering. That's what work would look like.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Right, right. Yeah, it's like um it's kind of like when people talk about pain. Is it is it a pain that feels good? You know that pain, you know, there's that there's that kind of pain that's like yeah, like working out, yeah. It hurts, but yet you know that it's leading to something positive, exactly, but yet it hurts. Yeah, working out's a great one. Like you're sore the next morning, you're like, Yeah, you're sore, but you know, it hurts, but you're like, Yeah, but you know, it feels kind of good too, you know. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 35:55

There is healthy pain. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah, and that's kind of what this is it's it's that kind of work. Like, yeah, this is gonna be hard, but yet you just have that feeling that it's not onerous and a burden. It is truly the privilege.

SPEAKER_04 36:09

Yeah, it is at the heart of it, but there's many days that it feels like work.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and um, I think maybe more recently I've had the opportunity to work through my own triggers when some other people in my world that need to be doing some more of the work, taking a little more personal responsibility for their well-being, and they're trying to dump it on me. And I'm like, oh, wait a second. I have the opportunity now to not receive that dumping.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Exactly. No, that's true, because it your first response when you have been doing the work is to blame them for not doing the work.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

But when you well, then you realize how codependent you are on them being okay.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

I know, I know it's full circle, it just opens up a whole nother can of worms and you find that there's another way to do that.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

We're back to the field again.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

I love it. And then it always comes back to them. And this one guy, he had a lot of questions coming mostly from a trigger.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Was this the garbage? Was this the garbage?

SPEAKER_04 37:11

Exactly. And he was like, This is all I was there at that one.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah, you were, yeah, I was at that one.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

It's all good, but the trash has to go out. How do you get them to take the trash out? Then I bring it back to him. Why does it bother you when they don't take the trash out? He's like, aha.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:28

But at the end result was really good because he was able to see what was motivating it within himself. But it is funny how it always comes back to us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Well, you you you make sure that it comes back to us, but it does. It really truly does too. So all right. So I think uh a good next step would be well, number one, I guess I'll ask you, Laura, what do you think taking from what we've talked today? If someone wanted to say, what's my next step? How do I take this teaching and take one next kind of simple practical step? What could that be?

SPEAKER_04 38:01

So I would take your top judgments, the top things you blame, people or events or circumstances, um, the areas you have judgment, the areas you have blame, the areas you feel shame, and be able to take those um and write a list of them. And then take the one phrase we're talking about, what you do matters, but you matter more, and input it into let's just say I judge my spouse, then being able to say what that person does, what my spouse does matters, but they matter more, and working it through inside of yourself until that's true for you. And what that could look like if we use that example is you might have to go back to when your spouse was a child and find a childhood picture of them and look and find who are they separate from what they're doing right now, until you can genuinely and authentically say, what my spouse does matters, but they matter so much more. And I'm not just talking like, you know, right at the you know, like, yes, like I matter just a little bit more than what I do, but far surpassing what I do, that spouse matters. I matter, that employee matters, that um peer matters. So whoever you're judging or whatever you're judging, input that quote into it and then explore the things, the pain that keeps you from being able to authentically say that.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

One thing I would add to that, I'm actually gonna add something to Laura. I would I would meet that with the compassion, yeah, the words of compassion, the compassion statements.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

So um, and you share those a lot. Uh, there's a whole section on this in the master course that you offer, but um, just share some of those compassion statements. Like one of the ones I repeat to myself a lot is uh um when I start to judge myself or be harsh on myself about not performance was obviously a protector for me. So like I see you trying so hard.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

I see how hard you're trying to make everything work. Yeah, that's a big one.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

Helps relieve that pressure. Um, I can tell you care so much.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

Um, take all the time you need. We're always putting a time on it. We're putting time on others, time on ourselves. Take the time you need to be able to feel safe, to be able to feel connected. Um, I don't want to get rid of you. That's such a common thing with what we're talking about today that when people have bad behavior, um, we want to get rid of them because it makes us feel uncomfortable. So being able to say that to our hearts, I don't want to get rid of you. Um, I think you're brave. We see ourselves as cowardly many times when we're going through this process, because if we could just do the right thing, everything would be fine. And if we're stuck in a cycle that we don't know how to get ahead of, there's a lot of feeling like we're weak and we're a coward, but being able to say, I see you as brave, because it's a very brave process.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah, yeah, those are great ones.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

And I think maybe even like I see who you really are too.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Yeah, and and um yeah, meet those behaviors that you see as negative or positive in yourself and in others with those compassion statements.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

And remember that when you're when you're really wanting to jump on someone else's case, that's how you also treat yourself. Yeah, yeah, and and you aren't gonna know it. You aren't gonna know it. What we're doing is we're bringing, we're helping you right now bring something from your subconscious to your conscious. And we're just telling you factually, like, like a hundred percent, if you're judging someone else harshly in an area, it's within how you treat yourself.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

Exactly. Every single time, every time, yeah. So find those areas you're judging and and put them here up to yourself so that you can show compassion to those parts of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Yeah. And I'm like, I'm gonna re-emphasize every single time. This is like one plus one equals two. This is this, this is that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Yeah, it's true. It really is.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Yeah, yeah. So it's really kind of sets us well for what I'd like to do in our next episode, which is we've talked a lot about in this episode, we talked about a lot about discovery, yeah, who you are. But the next episode, I really want to talk more specifically about, and I'm hopefully this stimulates some thinking of who you really are.

SPEAKER_04 42:28

Yeah, exactly. Um, I've been working with clients on their true self, and I came up with this activity that I'll share in the next um episode too. A really actually fun interactive activity that really helps um see who we are. So we'll be able to highlight that next time too.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

That's really cool. I'm looking forward to learning about that activity because this sounds like new information.

SPEAKER_04 42:47

Yeah, I haven't done it for myself yet, but I actually want to because it's not just that I gave it to people, but it's the fruit of what they're um connecting to and their true self from the exercise. So it'll be really fun to share.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Cool. Exciting. Well, now everyone has a lot to look forward to the next episode. So thank you everyone for joining us. Uh, this is an episode that'd be great to listen to uh several times over and happy applying this to your own life. Yeah. And thank you for joining us.