(Ep. 51) Addressing TCM misconceptions

What if the very reasons you've decided this "won't work for you" are the misconceptions keeping you from the help you need?

In this episode of Triggered & True, Laura Duncan and co-host Brian Freise clear up the most common misconceptions about the Compassion Method — the sticking points and misunderstandings that quietly keep people stuck, or convince them not to try at all. 

It's a myth-busting conversation that's especially useful if something you've heard on the podcast made you bristle, doubt, or think "that can't be right."

Laura and Brian work through the big myths: 

• You're too far gone or too unique to heal, that healing should be fast 
• "There are no villains" means letting people off the hook or ignoring accountability; 
• "The blamer is responsible" means the harm was your fault
• that the method turns you into an emotionless pacifist who never cares about anything 
• that once you've done the work, you should never get triggered again
• that focusing on yourself is selfish

In this episode: 

🔹 "I'm too far gone" — why what you've done or suffered only covers up who you are 

🔹 Why healing takes the time it takes — and why a clock on it backfires 

🔹 "No villains" doesn't mean no accountability — and being "responsible" means for your own heart 

🔹 Why the method doesn't make you an emotionless pacifist who ignores the world 

🔹 Why still getting triggered isn't failure — and why self-focus isn't selfishness

📩 Get your free Weekly Dose of Compassion — two short notes in your inbox every week. One to speak over yourself. One from Laura: https://www.lauraduncan.com/pl/2148814868

🔗 Learn more:

https://triggeredandtrue.com

https://lauraduncan.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Hello, Laura. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Good. How are you doing, Brian?

SPEAKER_02 0:33

I'm good. I'm good. We were talking a little bit beforehand and I realized we never greeted each other today. So we did it.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

We just jumped right in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

We just felt very compassionate.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

We just plowed right into business.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Well, as if anybody knows, if there's anybody, you know, listening that knows both Laura and I, you know that I am definitely the one down to business all the time.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

And Laura is not so much that let's just talk about some things first. But I can stay on task.

unknown 1:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

But we make it, we make a good partnership that way. So um we both have grown, I think, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I think so. Yeah. I know I have. I have too though. You've helped me be a little bit more disciplined, a little bit more focused, a little bit more structured. And I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Yeah. That is cool. That is cool how we both have been able to uh help each other in the areas where we're not as strong. So and uh so today we're gonna be addressing some misconceptions uh associated with the compassion method and just associated with uh some of the things that Laura teaches. Yeah. And um, so we're gonna kind of dive right in. And the the first one that I get when I'm talking to people that are in very hopeless situations or they're very, very, very triggered is that they feel like there's just no hope for them. Like their situation is of such a circumstance or uniqueness that you know that might work for the next dude. But that's not gonna work for me. I the mess I created is too big.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Exactly. What you've done or what's been done to you is too big to be able to heal from.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

And I think that uh, well, why don't you just start off kind of speaking to that?

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah, you know, it definitely can feel like that at times, especially the more severe trauma we've experienced. It can definitely start feeling like, you know, will I be able to heal? And um, one of the things that I always come back to is that who we were created to be will always be who we are. Whatever we've done or whatever's been done to us only covers up who we are. So if we can come back to who we are, that's actually what's going to help us lead us through the hopeless situation. Because so much of the time the hopelessness becomes the focus. So we focus so much on the hopelessness of it or whatever's happened to us or whatever we've done that we lose sight of who we are in the midst of what's happened to us.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Yeah. And I think that's a very important thing. When I was kind of going through my part of it, is I definitely felt like, you know, I'm very much on an island. And when I started working through this process is when I had my first glimmers of hope.

unknown 3:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

And that's when I knew that, okay, I won't be here forever.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, and yeah, that's one of the big things that comes from the hopelessness. We feel like it's gonna last forever. I'm gonna be here forever, and there's no way out. And it does feel very lonely because you're trapped within your own story, feeling like there's no way out of it.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yeah, yeah. Very stuck. Very stuck. So as you think about people that you've encountered through the years, um, you know, I know you've had people that have had great um, you've seen great breakthrough quickly. You've had others that it took a long time. So just kind of speak to that.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah. You know, we're so insistent, especially in our um society, I think our Western culture is so um instant gratification. You know, we have a really hard time with delayed gratification. And so when something doesn't happen right away, we conclude it doesn't work, or or like we just talked about, or it's too I'm too far gone, or whatever's happened is too much. But being able to recognize that time is actually an opportunity to be able to love, to be able to be with ourselves in it. So as soon as we put that clock on our healing, or you know, and connected to the hopelessness as well, with that clock on that healing, we're not able to actually be patient with ourselves, take the time that we need and have the space that we need to get the comfort that we're looking for in our pain. And so being able to take that clock, put it aside, and just say, take all the time you need. That's one of the uh popular compassion phrases is take all the time you need. And if you think about it, like when you go back to early childhood development, there's so much of a rush there, you know, and that rush creates anxiety, creates pressure, creates expectation. So all the way back to our early childhood development, we've got this clock on us to be better. So I would take it even a step further than just take all the time you need, put the clock away, and say, in early childhood development, where did you feel like you had to hurry up and get better? Where did you feel like you couldn't take the time you needed and the space you needed to feel what you needed to feel?

SPEAKER_02 5:51

As I think through when I, you know, kind of went through my journey, one of the things that really hit me was the I felt I was very unique in the standpoint of having this emotional pain. Like I felt like, you know, I shouldn't have this, others don't have this, others don't have this problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

But what's really cool as I've engaged this more and more is how I recognize this is such a shared part of humanity. Yes, all of us.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

And then and then I didn't feel so weird or alone, and I recognized the way other people mask it. I recognized how I masked it, and I would recognize other people did. And all of a sudden I felt that really helped me in the area of shame too, because I had so much shame.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah, because when you think like we are like we are too far gone, and whatever it is, and so that and we and not only does it feel like whatever we did is too far gone, but that who we are is too far gone, and that coming back to the being with is the shared experience, like you're talking about. If we can recognize that every single human has pain, every single human feels alone in their pain until they have the space to be able to recognize logically everyone has pain, but emotionally we can have a shared experience because even if your circumstances are different than mine, we have the same emotions, we have the same feelings. Yeah, and I would even say that male and female too, how we express our emotions, how we process our emotions may be different, but every human, male or female, every race, every nationality, everyone feels pain and needs comfort.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Everyone's been scared.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yep, every single human, scared, sad, lonely.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Where we kind of get ourselves in trouble is when we start comparing, well, you're scared for that reason.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

It doesn't really matter the reason.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Oh, and it creates such isolation. Yeah, it creates such isolation because when we measure what's happened to us or what we've done, we actually disconnect and isolate because we feel like that uniqueness of what happened to us is actually a cause for disconnection.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

So, what I would do for myself is I would minimize what I was feeling because I was feeling like, well, you know, other people have gone through worse things. This shouldn't bother me.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

And that was such a, you know, that's probably another big misconception of this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

I grew up in a good home, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

I should oh, that's such a common misconception, you know, that we shouldn't feel the way we feel because it's not as bad as what other people experience. But your reality is your reality and how it impacted you. You know, it sounds weird to say, but sometimes the things that are smaller can be as painful or even more painful because of lack and unmet need.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Well, that and you bury it for longer.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Exactly, because there's no justified, like you can't justify needing the same comfort as someone that's had a very severe traumatic situation.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

And the longer you bury it, the worse it gets.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yes, exactly. That suppression just keeps it building and that belief system keeps building. So as soon as you know the pain comes up, we suppress it back down with it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

I found that a lot, especially in the Christian world of people that didn't have, excuse me, very like strong traumatic events happen in their life, but they had severe emotional lack. And trying to justify that always comes out as like, well, I wasn't abused, but I also never felt like anyone ever saw me or heard me. And trying to help people understand that those are both very traumatic.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

I mean, I think the bottom line is that it doesn't matter who you are or where you've been, you've taken hits.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Um, there's no sense trying to measure how you know my hit was worse than your hit and all that other stuff. It's like we've all taken hits, we all benefit from this process.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

No matter how big or yeah, we all need to engage this process uh or something along these lines to take care of those hits that we've taken in our heart. Absolutely. So one of the other misconceptions that people have, and this one's a pretty big trigger for people, and it's probably one of the bigger ones. And you talk a lot about, you know, focusing on yourself, and you say some things about um, you know, there's no victims and there's no villains.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

And uh one of the big misconceptions is people have by saying that is you're like, what do you mean? What that person did didn't, you know, that person hurt me. Doesn't that matter? Um they need to be held accountable. We need to focus on that. And um, so just kind of address that kind of a misconception or kind of a sticking point with the process. Yeah, kind of get some people stuck.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yeah, exactly. I've had definitely multiple clients and people that I've worked through really struggle with that because it feels like you're invalidating what happened to a person by saying there's no villain, saying there's no victim, me saying that it's not really about what they did to you, it's about how you how you processed what they they did to you. And that can be very difficult because people want to look at it and say, well, this is wrong. So this needs to be acknowledged in order to heal. And we're not saying, I'm not saying that a person's actions or behaviors that hurt you is okay. But we can we can't change another human. We can't, you know, you can't get another human to say sorry, you can't get another human to validate your pain, you can't get another human to validate what they've done to you, no matter how logical it seems. So we spend all this energy villainizing and it keeps us trapped within ourselves because the only person that we can walk through a painful situation is ourselves. And so what feels disempowering because of the perceived invalidation of our pain is actually empowering because it's saying no matter what anyone's done to you, you don't have to wait for a sorry, you don't have to wait for an acknowledgement, you don't have to wait for someone to say that was wrong. You get to be able to recognize that it wasn't it was wrong. And now what do we do with it? How do we take care of ourselves in the midst of it? People are so busy and blame and so busy and villainizing that they never come back to themselves. And we've talked about that in the past with like the remote control exercise and blame, but it's so important to come back and take care of you first and what happened to you second.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yeah, I totally get the empowering part. You know, I thought the solution for my healing was outside of me.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

And you know the pressure that creates?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

So much pressure because and it's very actually terrifying because it's contingent on others, and it's and most people that hurt people, you know, especially hurt people badly or intentionally even, they're not probably gonna say sorry. They're really not gonna acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So now you're just stuck. Now you're just stuck with that big pain ball that they justifiably and logically created by their actions, but now we're just stuck with it because we have nowhere to displace it because they're not gonna receive it or acknowledge it. You know, I know some people will, but not all people will, right? So that's terrifying. Now you just sit with that pain and you can never get rid of it because it's contingent on naming the villain, the villain repenting for me to be okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Well, and for me, since I didn't have an obvious like person to blame, yeah, aside from myself. Yeah, I I I can't, I don't even know what and the I the fact that what probably drove me mad more than anything is I don't even know what outside of me is gonna help me.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, that's true. There's something it might be actually comforting to have the one person that hurt you versus just everything random, you know, random.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

So it's like is you know, a success.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

You know, well, for me, I was like, do I need to find the right counselor or consultant or therapist, or do I need to find the right methodology or the right this or the right that or read the right book? Or it was just and it's overwhelming, like there was so much.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

And I I didn't even think about that, but that's so true.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah, I mean, but I either way is extraordinarily difficult if you think the answer to your pain, yeah, is outside of you. Yeah, that's good, and it triggers people to no end. If I'll kind of bring in there, but the solution is within you, yeah, it's not outside of you, and it sounds so cruel at first, like it does. I thought about saying it too, exactly. But but yet at the same time, but I'm like, but that's a good thing, because guess who controls this? Yes, you have 100% control over how much compassion you give your heart. Yes, that is a hundred percent on you. You you control it, which I guess if you want to be stuck in blame and things like that, which is a which is a big fallback in a trigger, that is disempowering because you'd rather blame someone else. But but really the reality is it is empowering to not have to depend on yeah, you know, some something else, uh external. And I think in a lot of Christian ways, and I think I was probably this way too of you know, I wanted God to move in the external to to like pray the right prayer or the right thing or the right person pray over me. Yeah, and it's interesting because as I kind of walk through this from a faith standpoint, I recognize that you know, the Bible kind of tells me that God is within me.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So I don't have to run around the world to find him. If I could just be with me, which means that I have to first be with my dis uncomfortable emotions and feelings. Yeah, I comfort those, and then I can be with me and then exactly also be with God in some sort of a weird kind of no, definitely. It's weird because it's not the way we normally think about it. Like, I gotta go to church to be with God, I gotta go.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

It's like, well, no, no, I love that because it also centers more around who God is. When we're abiding in him, we're connected to ourselves, we're connected with God within, we're connected to who he is, we're in relationship and connection with him. When we're trying to have God do something outside of ourselves, we're more connected with what he's doing or not doing, and that's gonna be a very um unstable relationship with God. If our whole relationship is based on him saving us, him fixing things, him changing things. It doesn't mean that he doesn't do that for us.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Because his ways are not our ways, he's not gonna do it, he's not gonna do it the way we want.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

He's never done exactly no, and we're gonna draw our conclusions that God doesn't love me because I'm not connected to him, I'm connected with what he does.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Yeah, I mean, I just think about I was I've been re-watching the chosen series and just like what the what the people were expecting from the Messiah versus what they got. It's like his ways are not very different, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And uh, and then you can see how those pains would block our connection with them. So now we're just frantically trying to get God to do something outside of us versus inside of us.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

One of the things I found with this whole concept of uh the victim-villain thing, I would say this one really seems to help people, and I I would say, and you've said this, I mean, you you said this, and this really helped me is you say that it's not fair that the villain, whoever the villain is in your story, whoever it is, or it might not even be a person, it could be uh circumstance or concept, it could be uh uh could be a political party, it could be uh uh uh sports team.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Yeah, no, really, it could.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Yeah, we're back in football season now.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

So yeah, there's a lot of villains in there.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Yep, a lot of villains, you know, that that that play calling. Oof. Anyway, but that play caller, he really screwed up, but but it's not fair, you'd say that's not fair that that villain gets all the attention.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Exactly. It's not fair to your heart, much attention for years and years and years at all of our affection, even if it's negative affection, negative attention, they get all the attention. And the the person that has had a violation or had it's had pain from that person doesn't get the attention and the connection that they need.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah. And when I say that to people, that is like such a compassionate way of saying it. It's just not fair that your heart is sitting here hurting and you're putting all that energy over there. Yeah, that I've seen open people's eyes together. I think so too.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, exactly. Because it's actually taking it's it's I think it's bypassing the in the feeling of it being invalidated by saying it's not about the person and saying that you're too important to continue to blame the villain and have the villain get all the attention.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

To get all that energy over there, yep. Meanwhile, so much.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

And I've seen people that like the person the villains uh passed away, the villain is not been part of their lives in 20 years, and they're still giving all that attention and they're still neglecting their own heart.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Yep, yep. So that's a that's a really empowering phrase. So if you're if you can think about that yourself as you're going through a big trigger and somebody hurts you, that's gonna help you a lot. Um, another another thing you say that's along these exact same lines that's very triggering and kind of a kind of a misconception or a sticking place. Um, you'll say things like, uh, one thing you say is the blamer is always responsible.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah, that one does, that one does stick.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

It's like, what do you mean I'm responsible? Well, you're responsible for your own heart.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, I know. I've done like workshops where that one is just like, you know, very difficult for so we didn't want to lead the podcast with that one because it's like I don't know. People are like, stop listening.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

But remember, the blamers always responsible is the exact same way of saying it's not fair, yeah, that the villain in your story is getting all the attention. It's the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

And it's also the empowering uh piece that we're talking about too. Yeah, that if it's our responsibility, then we actually can be empowered to do something about it. If it's our responsibility, we can give ourselves the attention that we need instead of instead of giving the villain the attention that we continue to give them.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Totally. Yep. Well, moving on to the that was great, by the way. And I think that was worth the price of admission right there. Uh so that that last conversation. But moving on to the next one, um, this one, this one is really important because for the compassion method to move forward, the first thing you have to be able to do is be aware that you're triggered. Now, we talked about some really extreme things up front where if you're in debilitating anxiety, depression, those type of things, like you know you're triggered. You know it.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

But guess what? Before that debilitating thing happened throughout your life, you were triggered a lot and didn't even know it.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

And the reason it got to the debilitating part is because there was the buildup.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Yes, the buildup and the suppression of the buildup. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

So I remember talking to a uh before I met with you, Laura. I talked with a retired um counselor. And I remember telling him that, you know, I had never dealt with anxiety before. And he started laughing. He's like, he's like laughing, you know. He's like, I'm like, what's so funny? He's like, yeah, right. Yeah. It's like you have, you just weren't aware. You just weren't aware of it.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Exactly. And a lot of times people, once again, like you said, it gets to that, like, Peak anxiety, peak depression. We're like, oh, I experienced anxiety or depression, but you're exactly right. All the way down to where we became, I mean, before we became cognitive, but all the way down to two, three, four years old, we've experienced anxiety. We felt depression. We felt those things. We just didn't know the name of it and we didn't know how to feel it. We didn't know how to walk through it, but it's been there all along.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

And we engaged our protectors, the things we had built to take care of it that didn't really take care of it, but no, medicated it, but exactly. And we engage those. And um, I sometimes jokingly say, not so jokingly, that if we're fortunate, our protectors will eventually fail us.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yes, exactly. And then that we have to actually get the true need met, exactly. And that's really is what um, you know, anxiety attacks, things like that are. It's your system failing. So you protectors broke up that you need, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Yeah. So what some will say that are, I guess, in denial about being triggered, they're like, they'll say, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

You know, I have had people say I've never been triggered before, too.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Yeah, I'm not triggered, I'm just really passionate.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yes, really passionate, especially real like strong personalities that their fight, flight, freeze, or fawn is primarily fight, and they have a lot of passion and a lot of conviction, and they are passionate about justice and a passion about you know things being right. And so, like when you see that passion, it doesn't it can be deceiving because it can feel like it's not a trigger, it's just passion.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

So delineate between the two, between a trigger and just being passionate about something.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yep. So one of the things I say is like one clear way of knowing that you're not triggered is you're okay. You're clear-minded, you're tenderhearted, you're at peace. And you can be passionate from a clear mind, from a tender heart, being at peace. When we're frantic, when we're in blame, when we are feeling helpless, when we're feeling like we have to fight for something, when we feel like nobody else understands, um, when our brain feels foggy, when we feel um tough towards uh situations and people, those are indicators that our passion is connected to a trigger. So your internal world, your emotions are gonna tell you if your action is passionate or triggered. And I think sometimes it's not as clear of a um a separation. I think sometimes we are passionate and we're triggered at the same time, and they can actually be happening simultaneously.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah, I uh I had a I had a a minor victory recently. I was I was working with a vendor and I had to address a sticky situation and I had to be direct, kind of blunt.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

And I was very cautious because I'm like, I don't want to do this from a triggered place.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

And you know, whereas maybe five, six years ago, I would have been 95% triggered when I had the conversation. This time I feel like I was only about 30% triggered.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

So you're more in your sophisticated brain. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

I was passionately, yes, blunt and direct, but I did not feel after the conversation I had to apologize because in the past I would have felt like, yeah, I mean, I obviously I have a point here, but I handled it like uh a you know what. So I need to go back and apologize. And after this one, I was like, you know, I was blunt, I was direct. I was a little triggered. I know that I was a little bit not at peace, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

It's yeah, exactly. It's gonna be mixed together a little bit, and that's what makes it hard to differentiate. But you knew I like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

You didn't think I wanted to give myself a high five afterwards, I was like so thrilled.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah, no, and direct communication is not negative at all. You know, it's our perception that if we're direct or we're passionate that we're actually triggered. But if you're at if you are for the most part not in a triggered state, clear-minded, tender-hearted, at peace, and you directly say what you need to say, that's actually helpful for the other person. It's not, it's not hurting another person, it's helping another person.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah. And maybe that other person would say, you know, no, actually, you were a jerk, you know, whatever. I'm like, well, if you think I was a jerk now, you should have seen me five years ago.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

You would be you would be using the word jerk.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

It's kind of like, what level of uh nasty word are you gonna use to describe me? You know, it's like it would have been a worse word before, you know. Yeah, or you would have been triggered for more days yourself after the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

But and another way you can kind of tell is you're more curious with the situation, you're passionate about it, but you're also curious with it. Curiosity is a really strong indicator that we're not in a triggered state.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

And when you say curious, you're talking about asking yourself, like, why does this bother me so bad?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Exactly. Curious with yourself. And then it could potentially lead to curiosity with the person you're engaging with, but it starts with curiosity with yourself. Why does this feel so big to me? Why am I so passionate about this? And when passion is only connected to the knowledge of good and evil, and it's only connected to good and bad, we've lost relationship with ourselves and we've lost relationship with the person we're engaging with. Because now we're not passionate about ourselves or about the other person, we're passionate about good or evil. And so when passion is connected to good and evil, it's always going to be connected to shame. And so when we come step outside of this, isn't about it being right or wrong, this is about what how it's connecting to me and how it's making me feel and how it's connecting to the other person and how it's making them feel. Then all of a sudden, now we're engaging on the real level versus just making it about good or bad.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yeah. So I think a misconception someone could easily have about this is that you become a pacifist.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yes, exactly. And you never have any emotions and you're always neutral and you're just going with the flow and you don't ever blame anyone and you never, you know, care about what's going on outside of yourself. But it's not true at all. You actually care greater because you're less distracted by your wound that you can actually be proactive because your wound is no longer driving your passion, your true self is driving your passion.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah. I mean, in in Christian circles, the one you hear a lot is, you know, when Jesus uh turned over the tables of the money changers and cleared off the temple.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

You know, and I'm like, but hey, here's the deal. Uh, you can do that and not be triggered in a way that leads to sin.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Obviously, because Jesus didn't obviously, because he didn't sin in it, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

So you can be very passionate about right about righteousness, about about even about justice, about those things. But when it's coming from a place of you who you are, your true self, yeah, versus your coming from a place of pain, which is why I believe the Bible says man's anger does not bring about the righteous life God desires. But I think that's largely because man's anger is primarily coming from our pain.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Exactly. And it's gonna be against, not for.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Because I believe even when Jesus was saying that, it was actually for their hearts to turn towards God, not because they were bad and he was showing them how bad they were. Shame it wasn't against them, it was for God, it was for them, it was for him.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah, that's a good indicator, just like curiosity. Are you doing it against or for? We get so preoccupied with our passions that, like, for example, you know, I've worked with people that um with girls that have been trafficked before, people get so passionate about the problem that they're actually not doing it for the girls that are going through the people that are going through it anymore. They're doing it for their wound. They're doing it because they're passionate about stopping the problem, but they're not doing it for the solution.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Which is also, I think that could be applied to a lot of people that go in to help, help help, help businesses, help ministries.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Exactly. You know, we're so busy trying to stop the bad, the external, that we don't actually take care of the person that we're actually fighting for, that we're actually passionate about.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

It's why so many social workers burn out, so many pastors burn out, you know, some, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Because again, you're trying to get your external world to be okay so you can be okay. Get rid of all the bad people in the world so we can feel okay. But that's never one, never gonna happen. And two, wasted energy. Because if we actually built ourselves up and built up those that we're trying to help, the bad would not have as much of a negative impact on the person or ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Well, it goes back to the empowering thing. It's very disempowering if you think if you're if you're if you're in your role where you're meeting with people one-on-one and you're yeah, and if if your sense of self-worth and value and your ability to be okay is based on how well the person you're meeting with is performing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

I mean, that that would be miserable. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be doing this. It's 10 years later, 11 years later, I wouldn't be doing this right now if that was the case.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

And one of the ways, Laura, that I know that this pro, you know, I obviously I know it from experiential, but one of the other ways that I know if I was just an outside observer, when I look at through the years, how many people you meet with one-on-one, like you meet with a lot more people one-on-one than a typical person in your arena.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah, I do a little less now, but for years there. I mean, I was working full time doing it, which is like three times the amount as most people.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Well, and it's been less exhausting because you weren't your well-being wasn't wrapped up in how well they were doing.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

No. And I also and I don't feel that much different now. I have different, like, you know, things that I'm wanting to focus on. So I meet with people less, but I never stopped meeting with people less because I was burned out, because it was too much, because they were too much, because I wasn't okay. I reason why I stopped meeting with people as much is because I wanted to actually start, you know, developing other parts of the compassion method and developing and doing other things.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

How to is it was more about how to multiply. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

So it was changed, my vision changed.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

It's more I would say you're you're moving more towards discipleship. You are moving more towards training other people to exactly, yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

And I'm passionate about it, I'm enjoying it, and it's exciting, but it's also I still enjoy meeting with people one-on-one, and I still enjoy being able to connect with people. So it's definitely not from burnout, it's from wanting to be able to have different focuses.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah. Well, I know for me in my business, as the business has grown, I don't meet with as many clients anymore, but I still do meet with some. And oh my gosh, that helps me help the rest of the people that I'm trying to train how to do this. Yes, no, I feel like it's I'm learning new things. I'm still learning. I'm still learning. Like, oh, this is a better way to explain this. And yeah, and I'm like, I can't believe I was asking you guys to do it that way because that way is really hard.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

So now I'm you don't know until you're actually doing it. Then I go out and actually try and do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

I'm like, oh, that was a dumb idea I had, but you know, but anyway, yeah, no, I like that. Um, one of the other misconceptions, and I I struggle with this one too, is that you know, after I engage this for a while, I just you know, we're kind of on the opposite of the person that doesn't think that they have ever triggered. But this is a person that thinks that I should never trigger anymore because I've engaged this process. Yeah, that's called a lot of shame that comes when guess what, you know, it it still happens.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Um, maybe just speak to that a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah, use the example multiple times if like you put your hand on a hot surface and it didn't your brain didn't trigger you those hot surface, you'd actually melt your hand off. And so that trigger is actually so helpful to us because it's actually helping us all along the way. From so triggers are actually, like I've said before, opportunities. But then also, you know, we are exploring different parts of our hearts that have experienced different levels of pain. And a lot of times when you go get a deeper connection with yourself, which in turn usually means you're gonna have a deeper connection with your wounds, you may even have even more triggers for a period of time as you're facing that, because triggers come from a wound and they come from a wound that hasn't been comforted and cared for. And so being able to recognize that triggers are one, not bad. Two, they're an opportunity. And three, you're gonna be triggered for the rest of your life. Just like every single human has experienced pain, every single human is gonna have triggers and reactions for the rest of your life. The difference is as you become more, you know, go through the compassion method and you heal and you grow, is you get triggered usually less often, and you get triggered, usually don't get triggered as big as you used to. But if you do get picked triggered big, or if you do get start feeling like you get triggered more often, opportunity to connect with yourself, it's a check engine light, it's an indicator. And so healthy actually must be. That's true too. I know some people are like the people that have said, like, I've never been triggered, and then they recognize what their body, their mind, their heart feels like in a trigger. They'll come back and triggered me. I'm getting triggered every single second, but it's just like you said, you're just more aware of it.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah, just have them go to the DMV every day or something. They'll get more work.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

That's a good homework assignment. You just sit in the DMV.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Oh no, there's somebody that works at the DMV. It's just a stereotype. We're we are perpetuating a stereotype that the DMV is not a pleasant experience, and that's not necessarily the case.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

But no, and they've actually gotten a lot better. I just went to the DMV a couple days ago with my daughter, and I was like, they're really making this a more efficient process.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

You still waited for 30 minutes, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

One of the things I've recognized on my triggers, and this was something else, you know, if if anyone listening has engaged this for a while, is how quickly I recover.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

So good. Uh a week or so ago, I had a my wife and I had a triggered experience together. We shared a triggered experience together.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

And afterwards, sharing a coffee, sharing a meal.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Afterwards, I felt like so, I'm such a failure. I'm like, I'm so stupid. I know better than this. I know this process, I know what happened. It's like I walked right into the trap. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but I was like, hey, wait a second. How cool is it that like just a few minutes later I recognized that?

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Like there'd be times where that would go on. If that, you know, 10 years ago that would have happened, and I wouldn't have even known. I'd have been like, Well, I was dumb, but I wouldn't have had any idea. You know, I would have been hung up on why I was right. Whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, some people have fights for weeks, days, and weeks and years because of that.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Interestingly, I was right in this argument.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Whereas this time I was able to let being right go and be like, Yeah, of course I was right.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

You know, and I'm curious, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Of course I was right, but you know, really I did I didn't need to act like that, you know. Whereas before I might have been more just hung up on why I was right. Yeah, exactly. Did you feel too a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Yeah, it makes you laugh.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

I was probably partially right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, that's right. It is funny how important being right can be in those moments of trigger. Yeah, they're big because they are big. Um, because we're trying to justify our pain instead of taking care of our pain. If I can be right, I can ignore my pain. If I'm wrong, I have to face my pain. Um, but I'm curious, did you feel like you had quicker recovery? Do you feel like that quicker recovery helped you have a quicker or uh quicker connection or reconnection time? Did the recovery lead to reconnection? That's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

With myself, yes. Yes, the reconnection with my wife had to wait until she worked through the process herself. That's something that you can't control because uh you can't connect with a triggered person.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

No, it's like oil and water. Yeah, no, that makes sense though.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

But our connection came around and you were in a position for reconnection.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

I like what you said. You can't just because you've recovered doesn't mean that the other person can recover and reconnect in the same way you do, but you were in a position of reconnection because you were able to recover. That means that your heart was more open when she was able to take care of her trigger and come back to you. You were ready, you were prepared.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, and knowing the process obviously, too, gives you so much more empathy and compassion for other people. Yes, because we're not side. It helps me turn the blame off. There was a scenario I heard just recently, um, where um this family member of this person did something really uh hurtful to to this to this other person. And man, I remember the old me would have been so judgmental. What would have been like, but then I was kind of like, man, there's a reason why she reacted that way. There just is like she's hurting. Uh, I've met this person before, this is not who she is.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

She is so giving and caring, and and she has laid down her life in so many ways for this family member that you know she was hurtful towards. And I'm like, whereas before, I mean, I know the judgment would have just been oh yeah, what a wicked woman, you know. It's like, no way, it's just I love that.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

I love how we can be able to see people more clearly and see past what they did. Doesn't mean you don't acknowledge it, but you see that you recognize what they did mattered, but they mattered more, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Right. Well, then you recognize that hey, I've done that stuff too.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

I know we all have, you know, it may come in a different package, but we've all done it.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Yeah, you just haven't done it for like 30 years, but the rest of us do it on a very routine basis.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

So, kind of the last misconception, I think. Um, and I think this probably comes out in certain ways, different people were raised differently. But if you were raised kind of like I was to be very um self-uh motivated and to be very independent, um, all this over responsible, over-responsible for other people's stuff, but all of this kind of focusing on yourself, because like you know, you're supposed to give yourself for others, right? Yeah, so all this focusing on yourself seems kind of selfish at times.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Yeah, no, I've definitely seen that. You know, you got that's just selfish to give yourself love, give yourself compassion.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Right. So yeah, speak to that.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yeah, so it comes down to um that scripture do unto others as you'd want them to do towards you. And if we don't know how to treat ourselves and we don't know how to love ourselves, our love for others is not going to be as authentic and as rich and as deep and actually truly sacrificial. We think we're being sacrificial when we suppress our own needs and we don't love ourselves and give all of our attention to other people. But that type of love is usually circumstantial. It's based on if a person, you know, gives me the feeling that I'm doing good, it gives me the feeling of like, you know, I'm, you know, selfless. But selfless people don't know how to love. Those that have self-compassion and self-connection know how to truly love because they know how to love themselves. And if you don't know how to love yourself, you will not be able to love others to the fullness that we are capable of loving.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Yeah. And if all you do on focus is on others, it's gonna be very exhausting. Because that's exactly but that love for yourself is uh it's uh it's a ever running fountain.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Because love love doesn't deplete.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Nope, it doesn't deplete. Nope. It is not, it's limitless.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

It's limitless.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

But when we don't love ourselves and we try to love other people, there's limits.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Yeah. So uh Proverbs 423. I return, return to that a lot when I'm talking to people about this process about above all else, guard your heart. Yeah, take care of your heart, for it is the wellspring of life. Everything flows through your heart. Yeah, so focus on that above all else. Yeah, above all else, exactly. It's such a cool to me, it's such a cool um side effect of the fact that if you take care of yourself well, yeah as a side effect, you are gonna take care of everybody in your sphere of influence really, really well. Yes, and you're not gonna enable them.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Yep, you won't fall for that stuff because that ain't gonna work. You're not gonna enable them.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Um, you may not always do and jump to the things that they want you to jump to, yeah. But you will in fact have a much higher probability of giving them exactly what they need if you are full yourself and you don't need them to like you or all those other things.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

All the things that usually motivates our love that actually is selfish love. So much selfless love is actually more selfish than we realize.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah, that's a hundred percent. It's a hundred percent. Well, great. We uh address some really, I think, uh great topics here and some of the areas where we've both seen people kind of get stuck in.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Yeah. And um, if there's any one of these areas that uh you need to spend a little more time with or you have questions on, you can definitely feel free to engage us through questions on the website, which by the way, we revamp the website. So go check out triggeredandtrue.com and you can see the kind of revamp website. And then also if you're looking for more information on Laura or how to work with Laura or engage the materials more, episode number 44 does a really great job of you know, how can you go deeper with the compassion method? Just kind of laying out some of the resources that you have out there, Laura.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

So yeah, yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Yeah. So well, thank you everyone for listening. And until next time, uh, take care of yourselves. Goodbye.