(Ep. 61) How These Couples and Individuals Found Healing with The Compassion Method™

What if hearing real people tell you exactly how healing changed their lives is the encouragement you needed to believe it could change yours?

In this very special episode of Triggered & True, Laura Duncan and co-host Brian Freise hand the microphone to the people who've lived it: brave graduates and students of the Compassion Method who share honest testimony from their own journeys. 

Each of them once had a "great awakening" moment — and each shares how discovering the method helped them see and finally tend the pain underneath. It's a moving, hope-filled episode that shows what this work actually looks like in real lives, actual marriages, and real callings.

First, Libby shares how Laura's 10 Gifts and the brain science behind them opened her eyes as a wife and mom of three — and awakened her own passion to help others. 

Then married couple Gary and Kristie Van Kley open up with striking honesty about over two decades of a hard marriage, and how making their own healing the priority — rather than trying to fix each other — brought change individually and together. 

Next, Kristy, a recently retired teacher turned coach, describes discovering the method through a practitioner and finding, for the first time, permission to feel her own anger — and how she now approaches even dating from a true-self place.

 Finally, Jeff and Marissa Prentice share Marissa's harrowing story of a sudden panic attack and losing her faith while in ministry school. How Laura's "you're not broken, you're just covered up" was like a lifeline. And how the two of them studied the method themselves and built a lifelong calling around it.

In this episode: 

🔹 Libby: How the 10 Gifts and brain science became her great awakening as a wife and mom 

🔹 Gary & Kristie Van Kley: healing a 20-plus-year hard marriage by each tending their own heart first 

🔹 Kristy: a retired teacher finding permission to feel her anger — and dating from her true self 

🔹 Jeff & Marissa Prentice: a panic attack, a lost-and-rebuilt faith, and a calling born from healing 

🔹 A recurring thread: "you're not broken, you're just covered up" — and why feeling pain can be a privilege

Connect with our guests: 

🔹 Libby Mathews — www.JoywithLibby.com 

🔹 Kristy Allen — www.dramaworkswellness.com 

🔹 Jeff & Marissa Prentice — www.prenticeconsulting.co 

🔹 Kristie Van Kley — vkhamfamily@gmail.com 

🔹 Gary Van Kley — apaulebilly@gmail.com

📩 Get your free Weekly Dose of Compassion — two short notes in your inbox every week. One to speak over yourself. One from Laura: https://www.lauraduncan.com/pl/2148814868

🔗 Learn more:

https://triggeredandtrue.com

https://lauraduncan.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_09 0:29

Hello and welcome everyone to this very special edition of Triggered and True Podcast, where today we have some very brave volunteers that are going to share aspects and some testimony of their journey implementing the compassion method into their lives. So starting off with our first victim today, we have Libby. And uh Libby, why don't you just tell us just a real little bit about yourself and specifically maybe how you came to know the compassion method or how you came to get uh exposure to the compassion method?

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Yeah, thanks, Frag. Um, yeah, so I'm Libby and I'm actually uh in Reading, California. And so Laura uh was leading workshops back way back when. And um pre-COVID. Yeah, pre-COVID, and I got to go um be a part of one of those workshops, and it was actually one of part of like a really uh deep experience for me. Um first being introduced to the compassion method, but also relating to it and and I guess experiencing it hands-on. And so I actually volunteered. I don't know if you remember that part, but I did. And um, I am a wife and a mom of three kids, and then um I definitely have uh a passion to help other people.

SPEAKER_09 1:57

Awesome, awesome. So you have uh with with uh having a spouse and children, you have lots of uh trigger event opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Very true, Brian. That's so lots of practice. Yes, very, very much so.

SPEAKER_09 2:12

So, kind of the first question we'd like to ask you, and I often describe my kind of first exposure and revelation of wanting to pursue help in the emotional help area in the emotional health area as my great awakening moment. So, my question for you is what was your great awakening moment? And how did discovering the compassion method help you begin to see and address your emotional pain?

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Yes. And I love your great awakening moment, and that's such a great word for compassion method, um, because I do feel like we come to that awakening moment. And so mine was really um learning Laura's 10 gifts and and how that um impacted our child, like from childhood, right? So um learning brain science, I really love the brain science. And so, but really that opened my eyes of seeing myself with different in lenses of like understanding that when I didn't get those needs met, that's how I'm reacting and responding right now, which I could just never really make sense of because I felt like I had a pretty good childhood that really helped me understand a whole lot about my life that just wasn't quite recognizable, I guess.

SPEAKER_09 3:31

Laura, why don't you comment? It kind of sounds like from what Libby's saying, it's uh it's a story that we hear a lot. You know, there's people that grow up in very obviously traumatic and dysfunctional environments, and then there's others that grow up in less uh traumatic and dysfunctional environments or less obvious. Less obvious, there's less obvious. So why don't you just maybe share about that? Because uh I think some people have a hard time going there because they think, oh, my childhood was perfect.

SPEAKER_05 4:01

Yeah, and I love that that's your awakening, Libby, because I feel like it is for so many people that have been raised in a quote unquote good home. You know, there's always pain points and there's different things that happen, but when you don't have overt trauma, it's very difficult to know why we're reacting so big to things. It doesn't make a lot of sense. So I think what it leads to is a lot of shame. If I was raised in such a good home and I had such a good childhood, why am I having such big reactions? And I would say that that's a big aha moment for a lot of people that they're like, oh, this makes sense because it really is difficult. You know, most people can point if they were raised in a very, you know, traumatic home that we can like point to and it's obvious and you can say, this is trauma and this is why I am the way that I am today, that makes sense. Yeah, you know, and so I feel like it's definitely one of the big aha moments, especially people that have been raised in good homes or Christian homes. I feel like that comes up a lot.

SPEAKER_09 5:01

So, Libby, could you maybe share a specific moment when you use the compassion method to comfort a triggered emotion?

SPEAKER_06 5:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_09 5:10

Yeah, and specifically what gift? What gift did you need in the moment and find and kind of just walk us through that?

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Yeah, I actually have a great story I love sharing. Um, and I have a prop. But um daughter awesome. I like props. My I gave my daughter this chicken. It's a wonderful chicken, except for that. So she started squawking this chicken, and I was very annoyed, justifiably annoyed, as Laura would love to share. Um, and I was ready to throw the chicken away or hide it or do something like normal parent might do. Um triggered, right? So I recognized after a couple weeks went by uh that I was triggered and I said, okay, hang on, it's really not the chicken that's triggering me. So I actually stopped and I felt and I actually found that my heart was feeling really scared. And so I dropped that down to my 11-year-old. And um my sister got in a we were riding bikes, my sister got in a bike wreck and um Buster 10 open and then got whisked off to the hospital and I was left kind of alone. People were around, but that's how I felt. I felt very alone. And so I actually needed a gift giver, two gift givers came in for me. I needed um comfort or um affection. So somebody come in and just see that that actually was a traumatic event for me because it happened with just us and it kind of felt like my fault, but then it was really scary. Um, so I just needed that affection of like, um, yeah, it's okay and somebody to hold me and be with me. And so as I brought in that gift giver, I started to feel a little bit calmer. And then I needed somebody to teach me because my sister was at the hospital for so long, and my little brain didn't have con, again, didn't have context of what was gonna happen. And so I brought in a gift giver to teach me that my sister was going to possibly get stitches, but she was gonna be brave and that that actually really settled my heart in that moment, and I felt a whole lot of peace come in, which was amazing. And the cool thing is, is then frontal lobe came back on and I was like, oh my gosh, I value my daughter so much, and I value that she loves the squeaky, squeaky toy, and so I'm actually gonna give her some boundaries, which I couldn't do in triggered brain. Um, and I was like, she can squawk the chicken three times around me, and then she can go to her room and shut the door and squawk her heart's content out. And so we agreed on that, and she's always done, she's done that ever since. We still have the chicken, and um, she still loves it. So that's been a really fun story because of how well those gift givers came in and helped me in that moment. Now, I was only 11, so I know the bigger the trigger, the younger you are, and that was a not a big, big trigger, but it still did a whole lot in my life.

SPEAKER_09 8:21

Well, Laura, I think one of the things that jumps out at me is how not necessarily logical some of these things are. So you think, how does a squawking chicken connect to a uh traumatic event from childhood where um a sister is injured and has to go to the hospital and you know creates a creates this traumatic memory. So maybe just speak a little bit to that.

SPEAKER_05 8:43

How yeah, um, I'll share a little bit and then if Libby, if you want to chime in, if there's something you connected to it as well, is um chaos. So the chaos of a situation engages our senses and can send signals to our brain that remind us of what happened in early childhood development. So a noise, a smell, um, something you see can put you back into a triggered moment, into a childhood moment of pain, even if it doesn't match. So we see this the squeaky chicken is creating chaos. It's dysregulating Libby's system because she's hearing this noise and it's sending this signal and it's creating the same frantic and panic that probably mirrored what she felt when her sister got in that bicycle accident. And so we don't always, because again, we're still in that early childhood development, it's not always gonna be a logical reason. It's gonna be more of a sensory connection. And that's why a lot of times when I have people go back to their memories, I go, don't look for the logical memory. Because a lot of people just want to match it, you know. You know, I have what was like a chicken squat. Yeah, what was like it? Okay, I'm gonna find this toy, you know, and then my mom yelled at me because I did this toy too much, and then that would make sense. And and obviously that could happen too. But that's why I have people lead with their emotions back versus trying to find the logical connection because it's not always gonna be logical. And Libby, if you had anything to share of any connection you made, I'd love to hear that too.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

No, that actually I've never thought of that with a chaos. I like that. So thanks for sharing that because like I've never really thought of that. Yeah, I've always like I love that example because it doesn't relate and I I usually share it with people, but I'm like, you know, it's about the feeling, and so that for some reason chicken made me feel scared, but you have to like know those those tender emotions really well to know that. Um, but there was a frantic to the chicken, like as I was feeling the annoying, I'm like, oh, there's kind of a frantic there, which makes sense. Like, oh, I felt that same kind of frantic in watching my sister, yeah, fall, be whisked off to the hospital. So that that's kind of how I would connect it. But I love that the chaos thing. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_09 10:54

Well, and the the beautiful thing about this is that we don't have to have a logical connection.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

Exactly. You don't need to know the why to take care of it. If that's where you got led to, that's where you need it.

SPEAKER_09 11:05

That's where you need comfort. Yeah, absolutely. No, that's good. So, another question for you, Libby, is how has the compassion method helped you rediscover your true self? And what's one surprising or joyful discovery you've made about who you are?

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Yeah. Um, that's such an fun question. Um, it has so uncovered so much of my true self, and I am very adventurous and creative. And so that's been fun to see more of that come out freely, I guess. And um I am very patient actually with my kids. I'm like, oh, that's new, but but it's me, right? Like I'm like, oh, but that's me. I've always I was patient. And so I get that how like when we as we get covered and we let the stress or the anxiety kind of come over us, it's like we forget, like, oh no, I actually was created patient. And so the I think really a big life-changing thing for me is just how I interact, well, first with me and giving myself compassion, but also with others. And and it's so fun to be able to hold space for others now and not be like that stressed person I was covered up with, and um just be able to listen and give them compassion and understand that their life is different than mine.

SPEAKER_09 12:32

I like that because like with the chicken, that was quite a bit of patience because I would have just disappeared the chicken.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

I know, right?

SPEAKER_09 12:39

Yeah, you know, and the other thing is like when I have things like that that annoy me, sometimes what I'll do is I'll I'll uh I'll work it out to the garage. And I'm like, if nobody asks for it in so many days, it just eventually ends up in the garbage.

unknown 12:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 12:56

So I'm gonna take some lessons here, Libby, that I need to recognize that these are trigger events and I need to follow what my heart is doing instead of just disappearing it, you know.

SPEAKER_05 13:07

Yeah. And I do like the part that you added to it, Libby, of how like then you were able to do boundaries, you know, and and a lot of people ask me that question about boundaries. How does boundaries fit into the compassion method? And what I always say is like when you are connected to your true self, you become your own boundary, meaning that you can from a sophisticated adult brain reason, strategize, find different ways that we can actually meet halfway in this. Because yes, you were triggered by the chicken, but your adult brain still probably doesn't like enjoy hearing that all the time. And a lot of times people will be like, well, once you deal with the trigger, then you're just gonna be okay with anything and you're gonna have no boundaries whatsoever, and you're just gonna be able to have the chicken squawk all day long. But what I always say is you still have a preference, and that's what your true self gets to decide. So now in peace and patience, you're able to say, This is what I feel comfortable with as an adult, because I have a lowercase A annoyance versus a capital A annoyance for that chicken.

SPEAKER_09 14:12

Yeah, and you're also free of any shame or guilt for putting up that boundary.

SPEAKER_05 14:17

Yep. And I feel like it, especially with children, but I think with anyone, when you make that boundary from your true self, it's so much easier for the other person to hear you, to apply it, to be able to do those boundaries versus if you just yelled at your daughter, she's either gonna go hide or she's gonna fight you back. But when you're able to explain to her what your preference is from a place of patience and peace, then she's able to hear you and be able to do it as needed in that moment, which would be true for anything that you um any boundary you put up with anyone.

SPEAKER_09 14:50

Well, I think if you put up the boundary as well and you get some blowback, whatever the boundary is, like the person doesn't like it. If you're kind of trying to do it in a defensive triggered place, you got two triggered people going at it really quickly. You know, but if you're doing it from the offensive place, like you're talking about, after you've taken care of your heart and it's more offensive than defensive, you can be okay even if they're not happy with your boundary.

SPEAKER_05 15:17

Mm-hmm. Exactly.

SPEAKER_09 15:19

So a final question for you, Libby, is what advice would you give someone who's hesitant to start their healing journey with the compassion method, especially if they're afraid of facing their pain?

SPEAKER_03 15:30

What I would say is if you're looking for something and you're trying to fill the void um in your life that you're just not sure what it is, that your true self is probably calling out and whispering it's time to face your pain. Um so yes, I know pain is scary and it is hard. But if you keep avoiding it, you're just finding new protectors to cover you up. And facing your pain is actually going to be the path um to real healing. Uh and it's it's a along with compassion and and this path, um, it makes it really safe, a safe journey to discover who you are and to get to that to life in um your true self. And so I would say it's uh worth facing the pain and and recognizing that that's probably what your your body or your pain is actually trying to tell you that it's time.

SPEAKER_09 16:34

Yeah, there's a purpose to the pain. Yeah, it's a point, it's pointing you somewhere. I like that.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

Yeah, that's really good.

SPEAKER_09 16:42

Well, thank you, Libby, for taking the time to share with us.

SPEAKER_05 16:45

Yes, you're welcome. Uh thank you, Libby. It's so good to hear from you and fun to hear your stories. And I liked your prop too. Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 16:52

Yeah, we don't often get props. No, we don't. I was a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

Brian, you should get us some props.

SPEAKER_09 16:59

Get some props. I'll work on that for next time. So, continuing the theme for this podcast, we have another brave, uh, some more brave souls to share their testimonies of the compassion method with us. And we're kind of shifting it a little bit, and we're gonna do a married couple, Gary and Christy, and we're gonna ask them a series of questions and uh get these different perspectives from uh from a married perspective. And one of the first things uh I'd like to ask Gary and Christy is how did you first learn about the compassion method or get introduced to Laura?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Actually, it would have been um around last May or June um of 2024, and I was receiving sozos and they felt that I needed something more than the sozos. So they um gave me Laura's number, which was very, or they didn't give me her number, they just gave me her name, which was very triggering for me because I had a very difficult time finding her. We went to or I went to my first visit with her in June, and um I came in very triggered. Uh, we couldn't find the office, and then we couldn't literally the building, and then couldn't find the office. The office is difficult sometimes. You're having a bad morning over having a bad marriage morning. I came in like with many triggers.

SPEAKER_09 18:22

So that office thing is totally by design. Laura's office is hard to find by design because she wants you good and triggered when you walk in the door. All right, first question. So, how has practicing self-compassion through the compassion method influenced the way you show compassion to each other? And maybe share an example of a time when this strengthened your connection?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Um, we have gained so much healing, both individually and in our marriage. Um, it's just it's just been so tremendous, and we just have grown so much in our marriage because we haven't had the best marriage in the world by by any stretch of the imagination. We've just grown a deeper love for each other.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

I would say most days, even sometimes it happens during the night. Like one of us will wake up and we start comforting each other with compassion phrases or even introducing the 10 gifts. I mean, it's just crazy, like how it's just like it's almost like a 24-hour lifestyle change for us because it really is um transformation of the mind in a way of changing our thinking in the bedroom, like bedroom intimacy has been so increased for us. Like we're he's so much more tender, and I'm able to respond to him so much better in the bedroom. And that has been something that has been such a blessing for us because that's been like a crazy increasement.

SPEAKER_05 19:46

Definitely, you know, we think about you know, intimacy, we think about the physical intimacy, but our bodies, our minds, and our hearts are all connected. And so it makes a lot of sense how you know that physical act would be a lot more difficult when you're not connected emotionally, not just with each other. I'd say even more importantly with yourselves. I think commonly in marriages, people are always trying to increase the intimacy level and more of a like, you know, how can we uh increase the mechanics, the communication, you know, all those things versus actually recognizing it's really within us as individuals that's going to keep us from being able to be intimate physically, mentally, or emotionally?

SPEAKER_09 20:31

That's good. Uh, so another question we have, I guess, for you would be is what was a moment when one of you was triggered and the other used the compassion method to respond differently than in the past? And how did this create a different outcome than maybe you had experienced in the past?

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Definitely we'll just tell each other, I think you need to go do a trigger sheet. You need to go do a remote control exercise. And so that's kind of been a common thing between us. Like we'll just say, I think that you should go do a remote control exercise.

SPEAKER_08 21:05

And then like the other person doesn't see that sometimes as sarcastic and slap you across the face.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

We might see a little bit, but we know it's best for each other.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

I think both doing it, we both understand it, and it's almost like when you say it, it's like, yes, I'm I believe I am triggered, and I believe this is this is really gonna help. So, you know, at that point we separate and we do what we gotta do with it. Uh, because if we just stood there and continued to fight or argue or whatever, you know, it's almost like it also causes a chance to where we can go separate and and and it gives us a chance really to find ourselves and just cool off instead of just continuing to make the situation more explosive, you know?

SPEAKER_01 21:50

And I think like it almost has just really taught us to love each other differently and have more compassion, like we're seeing each other in newer ways and newer levels. Almost like if I get angry, I feel like Gary is seeing me differently, like he's like, This is not you, or vice versa. If I'm seeing him angry or offended, I know that's not him. And so I'm not saying we do this perfectly yet, or I don't know if we ever will, because you know, I don't know what's gonna happen. But yeah, but it's getting to a point where it's like diffusing so well, situations just can really be done more calmly. And not like a complete outburst between the two of us.

SPEAKER_09 22:32

You know, one of the things that I remember Laura saying to me early on was uh because I would I want I'm kind of one that's wired to want results pretty fast. And she said that you need to learn to put the same faith and confidence in this process that you do exercise, because she knew exercise was very important to me. And with exercise, we know that it doesn't happen overnight. It is a commitment and it is a it's a lifestyle change to really implement something lasting. And you guys are well on your way uh, you know, on this journey, so that's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 23:11

So yeah, I liked how you emphasize the lifestyle part when you guys are talking about it because that is so true that it really is a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_09 23:19

Do you have like one specific example of a particular trigger where you had together and then you went and did the remote control exercise? It could have been, you know, just one or the other of you that where you kind of work through it kind of like you know how silly was the trigger or how serious was it, you know. Um usually, usually in hindsight, the trigger a lot of times is kind of ridiculously silly. But um uh yeah, do you have like a specific example?

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Well, I had a bit too, you know, we've had uh for the most part in the 23 years of marriage, a rough marriage, and um, you know, I've uh with my past um the trust issue with finances and women and lying and addictions and porn. And um the thing is is that there have been situations where things like that have come up, and you know, Christy will tell you about you know where she's had trouble with trusting with me, but sometimes what's happened is when we've had when we've had something like that triggered, and I actually go and do the trigger sheet, it's actually brought revelation of what's going on and it's given her more of an understanding of maybe a particular situation.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Just to let you know, he is not lying anymore and he's a new man, but from the residual of what happened before, I have been struggling with trust. And so I it's more me um healing in that area, if you want to say, because he's not doing these things at all anymore, but I would always go to like if he's gonna do something, I'm like, oh my goodness, that's where my mind would go to that trigger. And so I feel like um using this method has been, it just is like breaking that down for me. And I keep trusting him more and more. And the other thing is it used to be like I would be like, What are you doing? You know, like, but now it's more like we even had a situation just yesterday and um he was on his phone and I got real, I got triggered, but then I was able to handle it differently and just said, uh what what were you just doing on your phone? I was real calm. I didn't accuse him, but then yet I was able to like just kind of through my mind, no, he is trustable, and um it because I'm more secure inside, like I feel more safe. I feel safe. So it's just uh does this all make sense?

SPEAKER_09 25:51

Well, it kind of sounds like you're saying in your inner world, you know that you can be okay even if he wasn't.

SPEAKER_06 25:58

Yes, yeah, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

And I wanted to share a testimony when we did uh Laura's five-week uh class back in October last year. Laura was walking me through a trigger and um with in regards to the lying, and there was such revelation that came up in that that it really was transforming. We never thought that would have been a cause or a root cause of why, because that's the important thing, is getting to the root cause of why you're doing it in the first place.

SPEAKER_05 26:26

Yeah. So many of those things are behavior modification. It's like, I bet you had tried to do the right thing because you love your wife and you wanted to do the right thing, but how many times were you not able to and continued to stay in the same cycle because, like you said, you weren't getting to the root of it. And you know, it's noble to want to change our behavior. And I have a common quote: I say that what we do matters. So how you deal with finances, porn, different things definitely matters, but you matter more, and when we can make that the priority in our healing process, whatever we're struggling with, whatever we're going through, then that's actually how we get to the root of it. Not just even why it happened, but who you are, how you are in the middle of it. And I think when we matter more than it, that's one of the big turning points of any behavior. We start to say behavior is important, but you're more important.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

It's so good.

SPEAKER_05 27:33

And then also as a couple, too, you were saying, Christy, now you're able to look at him differently, not just because he's doing better with behavior, but because you know who he is and you're able to see things differently.

SPEAKER_09 27:45

Yeah, I think the part that really drove home for me early on was there's more to the story. There's more to my story. Because you know, we start to identify that our behaviors are who we are, but then we recognize that you know there's a reason why I act the way I did. It's not an excuse. But there's more to my story. And when that pain, that more to that story is a pain point, and when that pain is comforted, that behavior is going to disappear. That trust issue, that lying or whatever that that we're going to is going to disappear.

SPEAKER_05 28:20

And I wanted to say something about trust, because Christy, you kind of emphasize it, and I thought it was really important. When you go through struggles in your marriage, whatever they might be, everyone always says you have to earn trust, you have to build trust. And that's true. Like I said, what we do matters. So as we do behaviors that help build that, that's great. But I liked how you said even if he isn't doing it, you are still feeling the feelings as if he is, because it's really within you and your triggers and your pain and your childhood. So even if he had perfect behavior, not that he's is perfect, but even if he could be perfect, it wouldn't build the trust because really that trust, trusting another person starts with the safety you talked about, like having what we need, being full. And from there, that's where trust comes from.

SPEAKER_09 29:15

All right. So our final question for the two of you is what's one way the compassion method has helped you both let go of old patterns of blame and shame in the marriage? And how has it opened up space for more joy or playfulness together?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

One thing is the opening up more time. We were talking about it is when you're not in fight mode constantly and actually have more space to do other things. First of all, when you're in fight mode, you're you're gonna just constantly, even when you're not fighting, you're still gonna have that on your mind. Oh, you know, why you were fighting in the first place and and and pointing fingers and different things. You don't, and if you don't have the tools to really heal from it, you know, you might have resolved it to an extent, but it's still this that wound is still there. So with not having that as much going on, yeah, we find that we're we're laughing more and we're we're just seeing each other more in a different light than we've ever seen in our life. The way that you know God would want us to see each other and the way He sees each other, you know, and that's the thing. We've we're getting more and more to our true selves um all the time.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I think one thing we would really almost like if we would start conversation that wasn't pleasant, if you want to say, we would almost think like the other one was out to try to hurt us right away. Yeah. Whereas I think now yes, whereas now we're not doing it like that, we're looking at it differently, like okay, why are they reacting like that or what's what's going on? It's more being tender and more compassionate, and it really is just it's almost like when you're using it as a lifestyle, it almost starts spilling out of you without spending as much time fighting. Yeah, there is more time to be playful, if you want to say, and more laughing and to be creative together. And um, for a while I feel like we kind of lost doing fun things together, and now it's like we're doing more fun things and more dates and you know, dating more, and just it's drawing out like things out of us, like beautiful things out of us that we've always had, they were just been hidden and buried. And it's just bringing, I would say it's just bringing new life to us. Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

So yeah, one thing I commonly say to couples is you know, when you're in fight or flight with each other, you're in survival. Yeah, survival does not have the luxury of flowers, creativity, romantic moments because you're literally fighting for your life, because that's what a trigger tells you. Because remember, our amygdala is what's protecting us from a wild animal chasing us. And if you perceive that your spouse is a wild animal chasing you in those moments of trigger, then you're going to be in survival to such a degree, physically, mentally, emotionally, that it shuts down all of those things that you're talking about that you're now experiencing. Because now you can actually activate and connect with that again, that like you said, that creativity, the expression, the ability to allow your inner world to come out because you have the luxury, because you are fed and safe and secure. You have the luxury of giving instead of surviving.

SPEAKER_09 32:35

Thank you, Laura, for sharing that perspective. Well, that concludes our time. So, Gary and Christy, thank you so much for being open and vulnerable with us.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

Yes, thank you for sharing your story. I know a lot of people will probably be able to relate to that. And I think sometimes when you get on like a public, you know, it's a podcast, so people are listening, but I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing because I think sometimes we can feel like people go through the compassion method and they already, you know, have it all together and it's just kind of fine-tuning, but you guys sharing some of the things you've been through and how it's deeply impacted you, I think, is helpful for others too. Yeah, thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_09 33:12

And just to reassure you, nobody on planet earth has it all together. All right, well, thank you guys for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 33:24

All right, bye-bye. Bye. Our next courageous and brave volunteer is Christy. Uh, so we have another Christy, but uh, so Christy is joining us from her vacation. She's taking time out of her vacation to speak with us. So thank you so very much for doing that, Christy. So first question we have for you, just uh real quick, how did you discover the compassion method?

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Well, I was in another coach training program, and in that program, we were encouraged to trade practice sessions. So I would coach someone, they would coach me. And one of the people who coached me was Monique. Um, so she had been through the compassion school twice. And so when she coached me, I was like, wait a minute, I didn't learn that in the program. Where did you learn? Where did you learn this method? So after she coached me, I booked her for one more session. Then I just immediately booked a 12 coaching session package with her because it was the first place that I had ever been allowed to be angry. I didn't, I didn't even know I was angry. Uh so that is, I was like, wait a minute, there's a lot underneath the surface. I want to find out more about this. So it was through working with someone who was trained in the compassion method.

SPEAKER_09 34:50

When you say allowed to be angry, you had never been allowed to be angry. Just expand on that a little bit. Like, how how did she work with you to help you have the freedom to feel angry?

SPEAKER_02 35:00

So at that time it was August of 2023, and I was getting ready. I had just ended, I had just retired from being a teacher for 13 years. So, you know, pre-midlife, you know, thing.

SPEAKER_09 35:14

Midlife crisis going on.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah. Right. And so I was getting ready to start a new position, and I was getting so anxious. It was like I was getting really anxious about starting with my team because I'm a woman of color. Um, and my team was gonna be all white. And I was like, ugh, you know, uh, I was having anxiety about it. And so um, just because I kind of had some, I'd had some not good experiences and can't necessarily attribute it to race, but those people tended, they were the same race. And um, and so when I was just practicing with Monique, um, she was using vivid imagination um and giving me an opportunity to kind of go back and take care of like some unprocessed emotion. And when she did, I was able to get angry in my vivid imagination. And she didn't like tell me to stop, like, whoa, whoa, Christian, whoa, what's wrong with you? Why are you so mad in this vision? Like, hey, let's pray about it, you know. Um, she actually gave me a time when I didn't have a voice in a working situation. She gave me an opportunity to go back and have a voice, and what would I have said? After I came out of that vivid imagination that she was guiding so skillfully, I was like, what the actual, what the actual who is this? It was like, where did that come from? And so I was so curious about it because I had never got, I had never gotten that angry with anybody around me or whatever. You had never been allowed. I had never been allowed. So it signaled to me, wow, there are a lot of things in work settings where I had maybe gotten angry, but knew that it was inappropriate to demonstrate that anger in a workplace setting. So I just buried it and didn't know how to process it. And so after that, that's why I booked her, uh, because I felt like it was such a release of the pent-up anger. And I felt like, oh, I've I've only been able to be a, you know, I've only learned that a Christian is a joyful, smiley person. And anytime I was not that, I would criticize myself, or I would really, you know, work hard to try to get it back together so that I could be what a Christian is supposed to be. So very behavioral um focused.

SPEAKER_09 38:06

So Laura, I think maybe comment on that a lot because I think this is a common thing for people, especially in it could be a faith-based setting or just a family where they're not allowed to express, you know, where it's taboo.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

Yeah. So feeling anger specifically as a child, because that determines how you're going to feel angry the rest of your life. But feeling angry as a child is very important for neurological development. So what ends up happening when we are not allowed, real or perceived, sometimes we don't think we are and we could be, but many times it's because our caregivers have sent the message that anger is bad and wrong and hasn't allowed us to be angry. Because even in the Bible, it talks about be angry and do not sin in your anger. So it was never saying don't be angry, but we interpreted it and our caregivers interpreted it that anger was sin and wrong and bad. So what ends up happening is like you're stifled, you're stunted, your development stopped there because you never exercised your anger. And it's not necessarily so then now we can we're gonna be angry, we'll just be angry forever. Because I know you know you've gone through, you started out there, which was so important to feel the anger, but you start to grow up in it. So you start instead of being that little kid that's angry, because she was allowed to be angry and she felt the border and boundary and security of a caregiver being with her in it without shame and being able to say this is good and important, let it out, let it out. It'd be the same as if you could never cry. Crying's for babies, you know, so I'll give you something to cry about. You know, like if you were never allowed to feel cry, it would be stunted as well. So when you gave her permission to feel her anger with Monique's help and helping you walk through it, like that actually caused you to be able to develop parts of your brain, parts of your emotions that had been dormant and stunted since you were little. Right. Yeah. I love that. I hadn't heard that story before, and I really love that. Listen, I can't believe good job, good job. I like it. I got to throw in some textures, but that's important.

SPEAKER_09 40:28

No, that's good. So, how would you say learning the remote control exercise? Because I think when you're talking about some of the process, she was directing you towards the remote control exercise where you stop, pause the triggering event. You know, in this case, it was, you know, this particular one you were working with her was starting this new job.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Right.

SPEAKER_09 40:48

You know, you're gonna pause that and you're gonna, you know, dive into what you're feeling. Okay. So how has that process changed the way you handle other triggering events or just any events like that in daily life? And, you know, maybe share a little bit more of the example of how it shifted you from a state of trigger to a state of peace.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

So after starting working with the compassion method, um, after working with Monique, I felt like, oh, now I understand why I was single for so long. Um, because I would call myself chronically single. I had like a 20-year streak of being a single person. It was like I had zero clue about my emotional world. I didn't, I didn't have, I was very intelligent in other aspects of life, but as low on emotional intelligence. And so after working those 12 weeks, um, the next month, I met, you know, I got into a relationship. And this was my first, like, you know, I got into this relationship. I'll just leave it there. Um, so Valentine's Day rolls around, and I, you know, bought him some gifts and sent those, you know, through the postal service. And then when he came, when you know, he didn't bring me a gift. And so he shared such nice messages on Valentine's Day. It was like such beautiful words, but to me, it was like wah wah, womp, womp, womp, wom, womp. Because in my mind, when I didn't get a gift on Valentine's Day, it was like I became the Valentine's Day Grim Reaper. All the things that I was even planning to do for my coworkers, I didn't do. I didn't speak to anybody until 12 noon on Valentine's Day. I always keep my light on in my office, but I turn the light off. Um, I did not want to see anybody or talk to anybody. Once I realized all I'm gonna get for Valentine's Day is these words. So I realized that I was triggered. So that's when I started using the remote control process to kind of get in touch with, okay, you know, what's going on? You're so, you're so upset, you're so angry. Um, are you feeling sad, scared, lonely? Um, getting in touch with really feeling sad. Um, I had to do the remote control exercise twice uh because I was so activated. So I did it twice. And then I was able to, after I paused the trigger, I was able to come back to the world. And I was able to talk to him and let him know that, you know, I had the I was able to talk to him about how I was feeling. And I was able to do it without blaming him. I was able to just bring him into how it made me feel when I had put forth a certain type of effort, and then when he did not reciprocate in the same way, so then he was able to know me a little bit better. Um, so that was definitely you know a time that's powerful.

SPEAKER_09 44:12

I love how you said I came back to the world, yes, yes, because when we're triggered, not only like the world's missing out on you, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Yes, oh my gosh, like I again I had all these. Plans about how I was going to celebrate the day with my colleagues. And when I went to that place, it was like, I don't want to see any. I was hidden. I didn't want to see anybody. I didn't want to talk to anybody. I was just so hurt.

SPEAKER_09 44:46

She was in flight or freeze. You know, she was one of those, right, Laura?

SPEAKER_05 44:49

Yeah, no, I definitely probably a combination, you know, because there's probably some fight in you, but you didn't know where to displace that. Who to blame? I mean, you might have been blaming him, of course, but then as that flight, too, where you just want to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_09 45:01

When in doubt, just blame the guy. That's kind of the way this goes, right? When in doubt, it's the man's fault.

unknown 45:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 45:09

Okay, this is the way this rolls around here. No. Seriously.

SPEAKER_05 45:13

No, I love you sharing that. And that's such a big deal because you probably had built-up expectations, you know, of what you thought Valentine's was going to be.

SPEAKER_06 45:20

Right.

SPEAKER_05 45:21

And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But then the disconnection, not even just from him, but from yourself and the world, because it hit a wound. You know, you can just even as you were talking and sharing, and some of the like your descriptive words, like as you were sharing different things, I was like, oh, like I could feel how sad you were that you were so excited for your first relationship, and you're gonna have the Valentine's Day that you'd seen in the movies and that you'd imagined and you're trying to get her to trigger again more. So we might need to do the remote control exercise again. No, I'm just joking, you're doing great. But you know what I mean? Like I could feel like behind it, it wasn't just he didn't give me a present, I'm super angry. It was probably even a little girl, you know, that imagined what it would look like to feel loved on Valentine's Day, and then to feel like you didn't get that, and that you know, you wanted it so much. So I just I feel like there's so much tenderness, you know, how the remote control exercise focuses on our reactions, but then getting to that tenderness, that's what I see. Like if we open up the door of the anger and the disconnection from the world, if we open up that door and we look in, I'm like, oh that's a little girl that really, really wanted to have the romantic love.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Yeah. Wow, Brian, you're right. I'm like, all right, Laura. She's like, I gotta go now, I gotta go do an exercise.

SPEAKER_09 46:45

So uh another question I had for you, or we have for you, is well, first thing I guess, did you ever do the uh child childhood picture exercise? I did do the childhood picture exercise. Well, I guess one of the questions I had was do you remember that anything that you felt like you put away, like something you saw in your childhood self when you looked at the picture, but you recognize that you don't feel like you carry that with you today?

SPEAKER_02 47:10

I don't think so. And I'm not saying that there aren't things, but I had kind of started doing that work a little bit earlier about kind of trying to reconnect to some of my own desires. So I started that kind of in 2013 and so I had been trying to nurture that um before I came to the process. I I think because of the childhood picture exercise, I've been able to see my younger self a lot more clearly. Um and I I wouldn't say like aspects of my younger personality have become a lot clearer. I have a lot more compassion for my younger self, and I do still see a lot more pain than I do uh like all these great attributes that I've put away.

SPEAKER_09 47:57

Well, let me ask another one then. So thinking of the 10 gifts, you know, the is there is there any one of them that's been particularly like jumps off the page is like, oh my gosh, this is the gift that I felt the biggest void in my life.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Definitely the gift of feeling valued um has been a huge one. Um so I I did I did the remote control exercise just even recently um because that relationship that I talked about, it is now over. Um I know, right? Um and but before it was over, I am trying to evaluate whether this is something that I should stay in or not. And so I wanted to do it from a true self lens versus a triggered lens. And so I did want to connect to my child self, and I did. I, you know, kind of in that state, it was like, oh, I realized that I was lacking value. So I did use a remote control exercise and um connected to a younger part of myself that you know did not really have much support when I was going to um, I was a cheerleader when I was in middle school, and my parents didn't go with me to any of the games. Then I played soccer in high school for four years, they didn't attend any of the games. I played in the band for four years, and they didn't attend any of the games. And so I that was just my norm to not be supported. And so once I went back for that, you know, to connect to that younger version of myself, it was like, oh, this is what you needed. And so I brought in gift givers, you know, who were supportive and showed me that they cared about the things that I cared about. Um, so I realized I need that a lot more. I need to continue to bring in the gift givers who represent value, who communicate to who have to find a specific gift giver that brought in value? I brought in a team. Um, yes, I brought in a team of gift givers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:16

Yeah, I like that because sometimes it's one person and that feels like enough, but then sometimes it is a collection of people, it's a team of people because that you needed a team. And I even kind of like it because you were like playing sports and doing team activities, and then you had a team of gift givers come and support you.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

That is so funny you just said that because um you asked me, is there anything from my childhood memory, my childhood self that I had put away? And I I I remember that I loved being a part of a team and I loved playing. So um that's so funny.

SPEAKER_09 50:55

Well, you know, I think the thing that kind of resonates there is that uh in our true self, we're able to be with ourselves, obviously, but then also with other people.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 51:09

And then when we start to put parts of ourselves away, being with other people, being on a team can get actually very challenging.

SPEAKER_02 51:17

Right.

SPEAKER_05 51:20

She's all hmm retreat within ourselves.

SPEAKER_09 51:24

Not that maybe I haven't, you know, I know this kind of from firsthand experience, right?

SPEAKER_05 51:28

You know, so um, yeah, and you didn't have it modeled to you. Like when you don't have a mom and a dad coming and being your cheerleaders and being your support team and being with you in your losses and being with you in your wins, then how can we we can still give that to others, but I believe that the depth of it is not the same as when you've experienced that model to you, because then you can actually support from who you are, from what you've been given, versus just I should be a good team player, whether that's work or school or anything like that. I should be a good team player because it's the right way to do a team versus I want to be a team player because I know the benefit of being with others because I've learned how to be with myself.

SPEAKER_06 52:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 52:14

Well, in our in our limited time here, the last question we have for you is uh it's a little bit off script, but just kind of one that I felt led to ask you is I'm curious, where do you want to go next with the compassion method?

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Oh Lord, Brian. Um, so where do I want to go next with the compassion method? Personally, I am taking it with me into this season of dating again. I'm practicing dating from a true self place. Ah, I love that. And I'm also leading other people, like I was leading other people, and now I'm I am walking alongside them, uh, doing the same thing. And so bringing in the gift givers who represent the kind of support that I needed is something that I've been doing because that's I I really want to be able to see those people when I'm out in the they call it these streets.

SPEAKER_05 53:10

I like that because you're looking for the gift givers representations of characteristics that you would want in a significant other.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Right, right. And so even recently I got back on an app, and before I did, I I was feeling triggered, like, oh back on the apps. Um, and um, I did the remote control exercise, and I found a gift giver who was somebody who really, really liked me, you know, in life. Um, and so bringing him in and allowing him to uh give the gift to my younger self of really, really wanting to be around and in in the in that vivid imagination. It's just play. Um when I came out, it was like, ah, that's what it feels like to really be desired. And I ended up swiping on somebody I wouldn't have normally swiped with, and immediately we began to have an exchange that demonstrated um his desire. He was like, you know, really happy. So I was like, yes, I want more of that. I'm I'm done with just dating bases off based on looks and things like that. So but yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_09 54:35

I shared a quote with Laura the other day about how uh it was from uh a lady that wrote something 500 years ago, but she said that uh we spend so much time focusing on the rough setting of the diamond. And the diamond is is our heart, and we just spend all this time on the rough setting of it, all this focus. But you know, the heart that's the substance, that's what really matters. Yeah, and she's like so many pains that I'm like, even 500 years ago, so many pains were put into priming and all the things, this rough setting of the diamond. How little do we actually focus on what's really the important thing inside, you know, our soul, our heart.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Whoa, I love that. We're getting deep. I like it.

SPEAKER_09 55:21

I know thank you so much for taking the time to share with us. And I think what we're gonna do on this is you know, so we've got the four people that are doing this, and we're going to pull parts from all four of them and kind of amalgamate them together into kind of a testimonial uh package here. So testimonial episode. So we really thank you for your vulnerability.

SPEAKER_05 55:45

Thank you, Christy.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

I loved you.

SPEAKER_09 55:46

And for be willing to share this with everybody.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Yeah, absolutely. Um, it was a pleasure. I was looking forward to it. You know, I'm on my vacation, but I was like, I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_05 55:57

Yeah, thank you on your vacation too. Really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_09 56:00

All right, well, thank you again. All right, and enjoy your vacation.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 56:05

And I hope the swipe was a good swipe.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

I do too. I love that.

SPEAKER_09 56:11

All right, bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Bye.

SPEAKER_09 56:13

Yeah, so continuing with our episode here of getting some testimonials and some real life experience from the compassion method. We have Jeff and Marissa with us. And um, so Jeff and Marissa, why don't you just share a little bit about how you learned about the compassion method and then maybe just share a little bit about the impact it's having in your lives individually and in your marriage?

SPEAKER_04 56:38

My story was it was April of 2018, and we were in Europe visiting friends, and I woke up in the middle of the night with my first panic attack. And I was in ministry school to become a pastor. We had signed on a dotted line to be pastors back in Wisconsin. We were out in California at the time, that's where we lived, and I lost my faith, like truly and fully and completely, could not find a tether that was reachable for me to connect to anything bigger than myself. And it was profoundly terrifying. And um, I think I took some Benadryl on the 10-hour flight home from Europe. It was so bad. And it took just a series, just a handful of days before I got some information. Hey, you should go see Laura Duncan. And so that's why I ended up in Laura's office that she's in right now, which is just wild. I have such clear memories of walking in that space and sitting down in a chair. I hadn't eaten, I hadn't slept, and Laura was able to look at me. And I thought she was full of it at first, but she looked me in the eyes and she said, I'm I'm not worried about you. I think you're, I know you're gonna be just fine. It was this this person sitting across from me with radical hope. And I just was like, How do you know that? She so lovingly said, because you're not broken, who you actually are is still in there. You're just covered up. And it was to call it profound would be an understatement. It was a lifeline. And from that point on, I we ended up coming back to Wisconsin where we took pastoral jobs and I had to kind of reconstruct my faith. But the compassion method was the thing that gave me the pieces and the language and the um practicals to be able to um yeah, rebuild trust with myself, trust with God, trust with the world around me. Um, and so Jeff witnessed that as well.

SPEAKER_07 58:30

I did, you know, just by proxy, you know, I'm along for this ride as well, because it happens to both of us when you're in this committed marriage relationship thing, right? And so um it was super hard and inconvenient and confusing and dramatic. Dramatic all the things.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

I would say it was so dramatic, but it was so intense.

SPEAKER_07 58:53

Yeah, just like out of control. I don't know how to help you, but I'm here to like do whatever you need. And at that point, it was not a matter of, you know, oh, I'm gonna go and take care of myself. It felt like survival. And so I think that's just like an important note that for a lot of folks it it feels like you come to a crossroads where um getting some help on the insides, whether or not it's been part of your life and a part of your um like catalog of what feels like okay and important and acceptable and worthy of your investment, of time, of finances, whatever it is, at some point, and for some people, it becomes like a matter of like, I have to, this isn't a choice. This is like a calling and a matter of um like inner survival right now. Um and outer, because it all manifests somewhere, right? Um, so yes, I get I got pulled in there as well and was, you know, asking a lot of the same questions and along for the ride. And for for my just brief backstory, I I really did not have, I was one of those people who did not have a lot of um space and compassion for, you know, it's like, ah, those people who need to, you know, like work on themselves on the inside. Like, you know, I respect, I respect people who need that, but I I kind of had this like, I'm gonna be this workman for you know, my faith. And, you know, my goal is to just maintain the minimum level of inner health that I need to continue to um have the maximum external output and like perform, you know, and and you know, that gets you so far. But it, you know, especially Marissa's journey, it really um just got me off track of like, what am what is this all for? Like, is this really um like the Lord's will for my life that I should just like um guess it's so hard that you crash. Yep, just like suffer unto my own suffering and like what is just all those questions in which the answers are still not clear, right? This is a lifelong journey. But um, it really opened me up to um like what is what's going on inside of me? And so um, we had an opportunity after uh Marissa walked through some things with Laura past that immediate season of recovery from um her dark season of the soul, um, kind of thinking about what's next, because there was some real fire on whatever that was. And we are gonna have a lifelong personal ministry, no matter what we're doing vocationally.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

And so it just kind of became like what it became the thing that we felt called to do was to study under Laura.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:14

Yes, it was it was like who could could I could go to grad school, do some stuff, and you were saying that, but it was like, who do you want to become like or who do you want to do this like? It was like, yeah, Laura could be a great place to get connected. So we did some TCM work.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:26

Yeah, we did Laura school the first year. And yeah, that was my our journey was I brutally woke up to my pain, right? The body keeps the score. And for me, it was a visceral reaction and literally feeling like I was having heart attacks. Like I was like take begging my husband to take me to the hospital, like weeping and just saying, Would you hit me with a frying pan? Like, could you take me out of my misery somehow? Like it was dramatic and intense. And and Jeff, yeah, it was interesting how like my how it came to both of us was mine, it was a little bit more, you know, there were signs in my life that burnout was coming and that these different things were kind of on the horizon. Um, but his less so I don't know if that makes any sense. Like we we both arrived at the compassion method in different ways. I definitely was the first one through the gates, but um, and um, like he was saying, kind of alluding to after I got whole, I looked around the world and was like, I know I want to help people who've been there. Cause when you would walk through a dark night of the soul, you're in a club also, this the Great Awakening Club, whatever that is for you. Like you see people walking through it in your heart, my at least my heart kind of like reached for them. And I was like, How do I, how do I actually love the people in front of me? And that was when I was like, should I go to grad school and become you know a psychotherapist, or should I uh and I was tossed, I was tossing things around and couldn't quite figure it out. And that was when Jeff asked me the question. He said, Well, who do you want to be like? Who carries something that you want to carry? Because maybe move towards that. And that was an easy answer that it was Laura. And so that was four years ago. Four years ago, yeah. Four years ago, and you were entering, you know, we were on a Zoom call for something, and I said, Hey, Laura, can I can I pay you $30,000 instead? And you just want to you teach me how to carry what you carry, and you laughed and you said, sure.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:15

And then you said I know all about Laura's marketing skills.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

I know, and she said, not for $30,000. She goes, Oh, but for a lot less. But then you said to me, You said, But I want Jeff to do it.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:25

Well, I'll just I'll just talk to you anytime.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:28

I'll give you a discount because you're I do remember saying that, which I think is the only time I've ever had a couple do it together, but I did feel that.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:36

You said, But I want Jeff to do it. And I think what the gift of that was for us was walking. It required us to walk through it together in a new and fresh way. And I think we're still living off the the fruit of the tree that kind of grew in our marriage at that time. And so we've got three little kids now, six, four, and two. And you know, just the idea of even just being conscious to like what are the you know, what are we trying to give our kids? What are what's happening in me? I am a stay-at-home mom and I get overstimulated constantly and all like fully so often with these tiny people. And so just the crash method for us, I don't know, this is a long-winded answer, but has been profound in every area of our life.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:24

What was the next part of the compassion method that had the biggest impact? Obviously, she met you beautifully. 100% moment. What was the next thing that really clicked?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

Yeah. This is probably my strongest part of my testimony with this was she went back to she in sessions would go with me back to younger parts of me. But it was remote control exercise. I feel like I more than any activity in that book, and even though I love brain work and I love going back and I love bringing in gift givers and those kind of big aha moments that we have so often as consultants and as people who practice with our friends and our friends walk us through our own trauma. The remote control exercise saved my life, like completely and fully. Jeff, um, remember um Jeff printed out. We like reformatted the remote control exercise and some archaic version of it that I have on my computer that I think.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:19

Yeah, it was just days is like a few years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:23

But we um he put it on, you know, an eight and a half by eleven sheet of paper and did two of them and cut it down the middle, and I had a stack of a hundred of them. And so, and I was also working at a church and I was also graduating from ministry school before that. And so it was kind of like I had the opportunity to be triggered a hundred times a day because I was running after this thing I wasn't sure I believed in. It was awful. I don't wish it on anybody, but I wish the growth on everyone of what that gave me, what that season offered me. And so I would literally, what are you triggered by? God, what's the reaction motion? Terrified. What's the soft remote? Super scared. What do you need? Everything. Like it just felt so, so dramatic and so all or nothing. It was so big. And I think it was two parts. It was the remote control exercise for me that I did 10 times a day in those on those hard days, genuinely. And seriously, I had a stack of them. I'd read from I did it like it was a lifeline. And I could I could get so tender thinking about how important it was to have something to. do when you feel like you have nothing to tether to when you have a piece sorry when you have a piece of healing even if it's just like a glimmer of hope. What that gave me was profound. And then also just who I am as a person is I mean and I I feel like this is like one of the things I teach my clients the most is we so desperately want our emotional pain to be fixed by logical understanding, right? Like that's a thing that that is present when we're trying to heal. I want to know like why is the question.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:01

And I think that's also cultural for us as well. Oh totally uses an emphasis on an intellectual understanding as a like evidence of mastering something or totally and that's the kind of the houses that we grew up in were you know we're just leaned that way.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:16

And so I'll often tell my clients like emotional being can only be by emotional solutions and logical confusion can only be met by logical solutions. They can't crisscross and so Laura for me gave me a little bit of both. She gave me the emotional by helping me walk through my pain and figuring out where it was coming from but she also taught me about my brain which I I'll tell my clients like hey I'll teach you about how your brain works but I want you to know that this is I call it ibuprofen. I was like this will help you for eight hours max and then you're still gonna have to do your work afterwards. We still have to heal the root of the thing and so it was a mixture of both kind of being given the compassion of hey I've been there or I've seen this before and you're not alone and you're not you're not crazy. This isn't gonna be forever it was that logical help plus the practical of meeting and leading myself like Laura leading me and then giving me the tools via the remote control exercise to lead myself into kind of that next phase of healing for me.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:16

So Jeff when she was going through this and experiencing that and starting to and you're printing out the remote control exercise were you kind of just like I don't really want to I don't really care as long as this works as long as this helps I mean I remember Jeff saying Or were you engaging it right away too I remember him saying just drain the account like I mean if we had you know $10,000 in our savings account when we were 26 it was like just spend it on and just like do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:50

That was the first reaction and then you said yes to the invitation and you yeah I would say so that I would say so that it was like I I get your humor in that but there was a little bit of like I'm not um as I don't have like the understanding and I certainly don't have like my emotions connected to this process first person firsthand here. So this is a little bit like in faith I'm I'm interesting what's happening here to you. And um I felt like a little bit on the sidelines which was yeah feeling out of control but again like thankful that I was seeing like Marissa said some glimmers of hope happening for her um in that journey. So yeah and I and I said you know whatever um whatever's producing some hope let's keep doing that and baby steps of me even understanding like where she was coming from because Marissa was learning to articulate even for herself like what's going on let alone relay it to me. So I think there was just a lot of patience that's needed for someone who's standing by um someone going through something like that as well.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:47

So do you think that like where where did you kind of hit that threshold where you started to see each other a little bit past some of the behaviors and more connecting to the true self like in your marriage because I okay well let's just back up one other thing. So Laura teaches a lot when she works with couples to you know a lot of times in couples therapy like she doesn't even do couples therapy.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:10

Yeah so Laura just tell your tell your tell your tell your opinion on that couple minutes spiel yeah so whenever I work with a couple I always say for I start off by saying I'm not a referee I'm not here to figure out who's right and wrong because it's usually what couples are looking for.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:25

Absolutely I want to take responsibility for my percentage of the uh little percentage just a tiny bit but yeah no so then it's it is and then I say it's really about you as individuals first and as a couple second which is hard for people to wrap their brains around because they came from marriage counseling they believe each other the problem and so it's very difficult to be able to recognize that really at the end of the day it's individual first couple second yeah I have intense trauma from marriage counseling a lot of people do I know it is a very tender subject because uh my wife is the best blamethrower ever and I would get into these sessions like she came prepared like she had her list and she came prepared I just showed up and walked in and I'm sitting there and all of a sudden that blamethrower gets turned on and I'm like what in the heck I can't even get a word in Michelle Obama was on Jimmy Fallon probably a decade ago and he asked her about marriage therapy and she said oh I took Barack to therapy that was for him and she kind of said that no for me my God no he's the one with the problems and I think that's exactly it yeah so I would say that even this process kind of off of what Laura's saying when you see your partner so crushed it's a red flag if you're not moved to compassion right that's just like a thing not not an end all be all red flag but like for us it was pretty effortless in the opposite spirit to like oh my gosh I'm so sorry. Like when you see your partner kind of crumble there's a real opportunity to meet them there. And I think that's what that was for us was like as I was walking through he he was and I was able to again articulate what I was learning in the compassion method and how I was rebuilding trust with myself and how I was rebuilding my faith with God and how I was rebuilding how I viewed the world and my story he was able to he was just moved to compact moved with compassion like you would a kid right we always say like this is the idea of the child self is that if a little kid I remember this I remember where I was in my kitchen when you told me this on Zoom Laura like you're like well Marissa if a little kid was running up to you saying I'm scared what would you say? Like your response is I would not say go away you're annoying. I would welcome that kid in and that would be my natural reaction and so kind of getting to see each other in our softest places has brought nothing but connection and more and more grace. I think there's before the compassion method I think we were and just even how we were raised in faith and we want to try to do this for the world and all these things that were kind of really big and intense and kind of heavy it was like well dig your goal is to dig a well of compassion for all the people in your life and you got to dig it for everyone around you. And I think the compassion method for us was like no if I dig a deep enough well of compassion for myself I don't have to dig another well for anyone ever again. And maybe you probably said that that's probably a Laura thing that just comes out of my mouth at ease because I've said it a hundred times but like that's what it was for us was digging our own wells and then coming together and being able to bring connection and bring extra patience that only feels supernatural if we're honest.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:53

So you would say that your journey was more individual and then coming together in both of your individual processes versus it being as much blame and as much about like the other person doing it to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:07

Totally now I will say too the compassion method gives us language in the middle of a fight like we could give a couple we just we had an intense season in our family we had to live in a hotel for three weeks this spring because we were getting a bunch of work done and we have this hundred year old house and there was lead in a couple places so we had to do all these things and we were living in a hotel and we had more opportunities with triggers than I think we've had in a long time.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:30

Just the two of us it was so like one hotel room and three children one hotel room it was wild I don't recommend it but you know like we're we thought maybe we'll just get like an electric burner and try to make a pot of mac and cheese at least on our own it will be and it was just like this is a danger hazard with the two year old like there was nothing safe. It was nothing safe we kept a bag of groceries under the bathroom sink and a pack and play in the shower stall it was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:03

So lots of opportunities for but I feel like you know completely and I feel like almost even as recent as the spring I feel like we've sounded the alarm on each other when we're blaming like we when the shame and the stress gets overwhelming because I can't get it together in this hotel room. That was a moment that we had where it was like oh we are freaking out at each other big fights big yelling we don't want to yell in front of our kids we're gonna try not to yell but then they all like our kids are intuitive so our little four year olds I was like what's going on mom what is going on and I'm like fine we're like dad you're moving kind of fast yeah that's okay how they observe it. Yeah um like yeah now that you mention it I am really off right now but being able to see that so up close and kind of having nowhere to go and run from it I'd say there was a blessing in it where we would get so stressed that we'd blame each other for it. We were blaming each other for our stress and we were able to sound alarm and be like hold on we're triggered we got to take a step back and sometimes in certain areas of my life I feel really awake to when I trigger and in other ones I'm less conscious of it. And I think Jeff would say the same. I think that's the that's the working out of life growing up as you're learning yourself.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:17

And so yeah and I think even in marriage like it'd be so tempting to say like oh yeah you know we do this compassion method stuff we have this amazing testimony of the compassion method worked for me you know and really the reality on yeah on the ground it's like this is a lifelong journey and it is a super vulnerable thing to expose your like most like inner old ancient need that you didn't like all these things to the person who you've chosen to like yoke yourself with in this beautiful thing and you can love each other and see each other but they're also the person who has the most power that you've given to like hurt you um of anyone. And of course that doesn't happen on purpose but it's like when when those things happen in a hotel room. Oh my goodness I can become an expert at weaponizing like criticism or defensiveness in order to like again my inner kid is screaming like see me hear me and certainly like the work that we've done I think gets us there sooner to see um see that kid in there and I even I even really enjoy like the visualization of even just like a physical child. You know I I teach kindergarten through fifth grade kids and so it's really easy for me to not to mention our own kids right it's really easy for me to imagine um those kids but I think seeing each other um even just visualizing that child it's like yeah when there's something going on it's like you you need to crawl up on someone's lap yeah not be told off.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:50

Yeah I love that that's one exercise I have given couples before is to you know the childhood picture exercise that we did is exchange them and you know instead of looking at your child's love you're looking at your spouses and just how much it changes how you see them because all of a sudden instead of being this villain in your story because of all the pain that you're experiencing that ultimately originated within you but it feels like it's coming at you. I like how you said you weaponize those things because that's really what you do to protect yourself. Not because you're malicious or mean but because you're actually protecting yourself because it feels like a predator is chasing you in those moments and you have to protect yourself like a weapon. But being able to see who that person your spouse is not just as an adult as an adult but as their child self because that's the truest version of who they are. And just like with our own kids like you have so much more grace understanding patience kindness when we see who our kids are versus if we only were paying attention to what they were doing. If we only saw what our kids were doing we didn't see who they are we wouldn't like our children many times. You know what I mean could be great great things too. But in those hard moments with them we would be like oh I don't really want to do this but the reason why we continue to parent and to to walk them through those processes because we see who they are and then when you see who each other are it changes so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:12

Completely and then getting this language too this shared language I can't recommend it enough like your recommendation of yes you can study I'd love to teach you how to do this but I want your husband to do it what that gave us was a shared language. So when I say red alert you're blaming he knows what to do and then he perfectly goes and then he perfectly says oh I'm blaming I forgot let me go take care of that it's exactly like that at least but in all seriousness it's like whoa whoa whoa blame is here that means shame's already been in the room right we know this we know you know these things that we're friends like it shortens the distance and this is life too with the compassion method living it out I know I'm getting progress in a tricker area of my life when I can get to grace shorter in a shorter amount of time.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:59

Yeah yeah it can short circuit the thing and be like hey just stop right now I I know I'm being super unfair and this isn't like this isn't me and like I don't know how to articulate what's going on but like there's a there's a better version of this that's around the corner for us we need to take a one moment please true self is within vision just not yes I love that I think a real common theme that we're butting up against to today with the other people we talk to too is that everyone there's a lot of prefacing things like you know well we're not perfect at this yet or you know it's not work in progress yeah we're a work in progress or whatever and there's a couple quotes that Laura has shared with me that I'm gonna I'm gonna read your words back to you Laura on on this I love that he has these I'm like that's good he's like it's you I was like oh Brian yeah I should just say I won't say who said it and just say it's yours.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:58

So this this is one you share with me you said it's not the measure of overcoming something that gives you authority but when you're in the arena and right now we're hearing definitely from Jeff and Marissa in the re in the arena but when you are in the arena it can be easier to share it from a place of vulnerability on this earth we will never arrive so it's just an illusion anyway totally that's so good. Goodness we made the right choice to learn this method didn't we Brian yeah here's another one here's another one right along those lines had like a big exhale on the inside it just says you read that even yeah we're never gonna arrive another one she said when you become an expert in this area of emotional health you have lost your usefulness when you become an expert you often create expectations for yourself that are beyond what is reasonable or healthy.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:55

Experts usually carry judgments lack of empathy and pride or you're a slave to yourself right that's not compassionate either and you feel like you are I have to be shame is in the door shame is in the room already and there's that high stakes right yeah oh so good and we're always learning and growing and I've shared this so many times I still get triggered I still have moments I don't know what I'm feeling I still have moments that I'm reacting and sometimes I don't even catch myself right away you'd think I would catch it all I will say that Laura's triggers are kind of Disney triggers Laura's triggers are like you know kind of that that that edge that kind of that Disney movie that just gets a little bit on the edge but still PG I have real PG too I've got that but this is the thing I always tell feel for myself and I feel for you and for for anyone that's trying to become you know arrived expert everything is it's actually such a beautiful thing to be able to feel and for ourselves to continue to feel safe enough to share those spaces with us that are no longer considered bad but actually like we say so many times opportunity I hope I never get to a place that I don't allow the opportunity of my child self to be able to speak to me and share with me.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:26

That would if I it came a day that I've arrived and I no longer a trigger would be one of the worst things that I could experience that would be like being numb continuously yeah completely it's that Brene Brown quote you can't selectively numb emotion.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:42

So if you're numbing you can't you can't you can't you and how our brain works if you numb pain you numb joy and then we're the the Truman show perfect but dead inside yeah and it is and that's our story too like I think we've leaned into triggers like we've had enough things even in this year.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:59

It's like each season brings different things right and when you're what is our favorite one of our favorite books is Help Thanks Wow the three essential prayers by Anne Lamotte and just you can get everything that's in the book by just help thanks wow but I think like our we've been leaning into the help a little bit more in this last season and seeing the gift for what it is it's like um man it's that thing I said earlier like I wouldn't want to like wish the hard stuff on people but I'd wish the the fruit and the the aliveness yeah being all the way alive.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:43

Yeah and the only way through is through the pain.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:47

That's the doorway and that's when we get to fully be alive and come home to who we are and the benefit of not being an expert Laura says is that I will not judge others I will have compassion and empathy because I know how it feels not to know how to do this.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:06

Yeah I know how it feels not to know how to do the compassion method totally I will be kind to myself yeah that's good this has got very you gotta you gotta share that document with the rest of us okay yeah I was a free link at the bottom of the podcast description please absolutely this has been so great I love I love learning from you and hearing from you.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:33

Well it's inspiring to me too because I uh you know we did a we did a podcast a couple back about failure I feel like I'm failing at this was the title of it because I'm like I've done like 60 episodes of podcasts now Lord I'm still like freaking butchering it you know so we had a I had a horrible experience on a plane and uh I was telling this guy about this horrible experience and he's like man it sounds like there was a lot of triggered people on this plane literally the plane turned around because the stewardess and a passenger got chippy with each other. The pilot turned the plane around what an opportunity triggered canoe with you like paddling up the river with your friends and my wife hates to fly and they didn't say why they turned the plane around so she's thinking the plane's gonna crash and she's going nuts next to me and I'm sitting here so anyway. You were in the air yes they turned it around in the air I thought you were like getting ready to taxi and they're like no we're jumping out of line no no no no and like oh and they wouldn't tell anybody the steward the stewards were like buckled into their seats and my you know my wife's so I'm getting triggered primarily because she's getting triggered and it's like what a ripple effect.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:53

So this guy's like oh man you you had did you start handing out your podcast stuff to people I'm like oh hell no because there's no way I'm like I wanted anybody to know that I had anything to do with an emotional health podcast because I was pissed.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:09

I love that I was like oh my gosh I was like oh get me out of here oh but anyway it's so real so like this is just a reminder of like we're not gonna arrive.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:23

Well and and I I think something that we gathered too just to say this last idea of like one of the I'll write a book on this someday but when I was rebuilding my faith using the compassion method I created a visual in my mind of a garden and each I there were stones in the garden that walked you into the garden like these big kind of paver stones and each stone had something I could tether myself to the first one was love is real blah blah I have all these um these things I would tether myself to but one of the one of the things that ground me kind of as I walk my mental path in a moment of trigger um is I was designed to be a human. Like this was the design I wasn't part to know in part was the whole plan from the beginning. And if we're you know if we read the Bible and if that's part of your story for any listeners out there like we didn't become human in Genesis three after they took a bite of an apple. We were human from the beginning with finite minds who could only hold as much as we can hold. So me even on a plane with Brian canoeing up the triggered river and with you so quick I've been so stressed out information makes me feel safe as I've said before like that's actually doing it right. That's feeling that's like it's actually successful when you get triggered because your heart is online. This whole thing connects that like this by the design I can be okay even as I'm human. I don't know that's a that's a huge stone in my mental garden that I want self-acceptance that comes from it.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:56

It's something I have permission to like I don't have to frantically try to leave the trigger I don't have to frantically try to get out of the hole I don't have to yeah yeah I love that I like that the stones stones of remembrance yeah I totally after one of those quotes of Laura I wrote something that came to my mind after she said what she said and it I wasn't going to read it but it really connects with what you just said so it says I said feeling the pain on earth and connecting with him God through that pain is a privilege that we will never have again totally on this earth yeah it's the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings yes yeah we only have the opportunity to surrender here because someday we won't anymore. Yeah exactly and so it is a privilege on earth to feel like we feel yeah I love it thank you guys so much for sharing privilege to get so triggered on the phone feel like a privilege not to I feel a lot of shame because I wasn't I wasn't acting like Brian compassion method guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:06

I know what a guy to try to be though no you gotta live up to that yeah very good this was really rich. So thank you for taking the time and appreciate it hope your kids are doing okay they are one just walked in the room and good timing oh yeah perfect timing.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:24

No thanks for hearing CFS is knocking on the door you know but that'll be a few months from now by the time this air so you know you got you got some time to get your stuff in order.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:34

Yes. Oh man what a joy right yeah thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:38

You bet. Thank you again it was wonderful rich bye everyone bye bye