(Ep. 67) Confidently being You: Turning Triggers into Tools for Growth and Freedom

What if the emotional trigger you're trying to avoid is actually the doorway to your healing?

In this episode of Triggered & True, Laura Duncan and co-host Brian Friese challenge one of the biggest misconceptions about emotional triggers: that they're something to fear or eliminate. 

Instead, they explain why triggers can become one of the greatest gifts in your emotional healing journey when you learn how to work with them instead of against them.

Using the powerful picture of riding a wave rather than being crushed by it, Laura shows how emotional triggers stop feeling like they're happening to you when you approach them with curiosity and compassion. 

What once felt overwhelming becomes an opportunity to uncover the pain beneath the reaction, comfort the part of you that's hurting, and discover the true self that has been there all along.

If you've ever wished your triggers would simply disappear, this conversation offers a hopeful reframe: healing isn't about avoiding the waves—it's about learning how to ride them.

In this episode:

🔹 Why emotional triggers are opportunities for healing rather than obstacles to overcome

🔹 The "wave" analogy that changes how you experience overwhelming emotions and emotional reactions

🔹 How the Compassion Method transforms triggers from something happening to you into something you can work with

🔹 Why curiosity and self-compassion create lasting emotional healing where self-protection and avoidance cannot

🔹 How every trigger holds an invitation to feel your pain, receive comfort, and reconnect with your true self

📩 Get your free Weekly Dose of Compassion — two short notes in your inbox every week. One to speak over yourself. One from Laura: https://www.lauraduncan.com/pl/2148814868

🔗 Learn more:

https://triggeredandtrue.com

https://lauraduncan.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Hello and welcome to this episode of Triggered and True featuring the renowned emotional health consultant, Laura Duncan. Thank you for being here and thank you for investing the time to learn how to take care of your soul. If this podcast sparks any questions, feel free to submit a question by going to triggeredandtrue.com, scrolling to the bottom of the page and clicking ask. If you would like to learn more about Laura Duncan, we encourage you to follow Laura on Instagram and Facebook. Also, a great resource for you to consider is the Compassion Method Master Course. The Compassion Method is a process that empowers you to learn to see and conquer your internal pain and to discover your true self, your true self, that beautiful, wonderful part of you that has been there all along but has simply been covered up. To obtain the master course, you go to compassionmethod.net and as a podcast listener, you qualify for a $50 discount that can be obtained by typing in the coupon code podcast50. Again, that's compassionmethod.net and the coupon code podcast50. We hope you enjoy this episode.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

You know, I've used the example of the um wave and how a trigger feels like a wave that's just crashing on you and you can't catch your breath and it feels like it's just drowning you and killing you. But if you learn how to ride the trigger, ride the wave, you can actually have fun, you know, get strategic, get resourceful with it, see it as an opportunity. And then it's no longer happening to you. You're working with it.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

So we had kind of just a cold open to the podcast today. And Laura and I were just deep in discussion, and I just decided that this needs to be recorded. So we just hit record and we started. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

I wasn't even aware.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

What we're talking about is the well, you are being recorded, Laura. So legally we got that box.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

Oh, yeah, I need to push okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yeah, you need to know that you're you're being recorded. And what we were talking about was the benefits of triggers, which sometimes is hard to comprehend that a trigger has a beneficial aspect, but Laura was really just compounding it. And I don't know if I'd hit record at this part or not, but I said the trigger is kind of like um pointing the ambulance in the direction that it needs to go. Because the trigger is helping us see where our pain is.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Yeah. And on that primal place, it's helping us survive because it's giving us the energy, the strength, the endurance to overcome something that feels coming after us like a true predator. But now it gets abused because we're emotionally feeling things that we don't understand where they're coming from or what to do with them. And so now we're in a constant state of fight or flight that's wearing on our bodies and wearing on our system because we don't know how to work with it. And that's why that wave analogy that I think you recorded at that point. Um, that wave analogy is so good because we can actually start working with it. Like we could actually start to, you know, I've used the example before of working out and how if we didn't know that working out was beneficial for us, we would think it was killing us. Because I mean, you were you work out all the time, so you don't have this experience.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

But sometimes like I actually have a funny story about working out that just happened this morning. Okay. I shouldn't have worked out. So I'm uh at the tail end of a cold and I'm struggling with this lingering cough. And then woke up this morning. I'm like, and I am regimented about my workouts, and like Tuesday morning is cardio. And I'm like, I'm not really feeling cardio because that's gonna be kind of painful. And I'm like, nah, but I did it anyway. And then after I worked out during the workout, I was fine. Then afterwards, I'm like, what did I do? Because I feel like I got hit by a bus. My body was not ready for that yet. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

Well, and you being an experienced, you know, experienced in working out, you've understood, you know, if you have cardio, you're not gonna be out of breath. It's gonna strengthen your endurance, your respiratory, like you're going to be able to do well. In this example, you know, your real life example, what you do today, you weren't listening to your body ultimately, and your body was telling you that's not going to be good for us, and you didn't listen. So you had, you know, a reaction to it. But I feel like that's, you know, if we could recognize that triggers are working on our behalf and we learn how to befriend them and work with them, we would create endurance, we would create perseverance, we would create understanding of what's happening in our internal world. We would actually grow and we'd be stronger from it. But instead, it's kind of like how I described it in the beginning, where it's just crashing on us and crashing on us and crashing on us. So we think it's killing us instead of helping us.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

And we're mad at them.

SPEAKER_05 5:33

Yeah, we're really mad at them. So we're just suppressed, suppressed.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

So we're so we're not working with them, we're working against them.

SPEAKER_05 5:39

Blame and blame. Yeah, we can just get rid of it instead of saying, no, this is mine and this is good for me.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Well, I know people that have been at this for a while tend to probably get like me frustrated with them. Like, I should be over this by now.

SPEAKER_05 5:53

Yes, exactly. Because that's the problem. If we see it as a problem that we have to overcome, if we're healthy, we will not trigger, as everyone thinks. But healthy actually triggers to protect.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah, so it's part of our body's immune system. Yeah, our emotional immune system.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

Yeah. Like you said, just having a cold, like you probably noticed symptoms before, like in if we can take some vitamin C or if we can get some good rest or if we can do certain things, we can work with that to help strengthen our body. Versus when we don't listen, we usually get, you know, we don't take care of our bodies and then we end up getting sick because we're not paying attention. Because ultimately, those symptoms of a cold is a trigger that your immune system is struggling.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Well, this relates really good too, because you know, our last episode was uh as we were going into the holidays and apologized. We were trying to release it early, but we ended up releasing it early on YouTube, but late on the other ones because there was a technical snap boot. But anyway, those happen. But anyway, those do happen. As I was going through the holidays, there was several big trigger moments in our family, and I was like, gosh, I'm so thankful I was prepared. But then I found myself being beating myself up like these shouldn't have happened because I I knew better.

SPEAKER_05 7:13

If I prepared enough, these wouldn't happen. Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

If I prepare enough, a trigger event won't happen. But then I was kind of realizing that you know, there's a lot of other people in the room that are actually triggered, and I'm kind of just here trying to navigate it, and they didn't listen to the podcast, evidently. So evidently, because we didn't get it out soon enough, maybe that was why yeah, but but we got through it and it was uh it was really good. So hopefully your holiday was good too, Laura. Wasn't it?

SPEAKER_05 7:42

Yes, it was really good. Yeah, just very small, but it was good. Usually I spent Christmas with like 30 people, and it was like six people this year.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

We had closer to the 30, and I'm kind of thinking six is okay.

SPEAKER_05 7:52

So it was actually, I think we had our holidays switched because I had a big Thanksgiving, you had a smaller one, right? And then I had a smaller Christmas and a bigger Thanksgiving. I like both.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yeah, yeah. As our children get older and they start having other lives besides us.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Yeah, shame on them. I know.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

You know, we talk a lot about freeing people from shame, but in this example, we are actually need to shame our children that they should still our their lives should still revolve around us.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

It makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

And those other in-laws and stuff, they just don't matter.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

No, they just don't at all.

SPEAKER_05 8:29

No, I actually like it. I like when um you just make it like you switch holidays, I like better because then you're not going from one um Christmas to another. You know, I feel like it's nicer to spread it out.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah, it looks like we're gonna be on a pattern of every other. So yeah every other, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

So that'd be good.

SPEAKER_05 8:47

So today's podcast, you know, we introed with the triggers, but then we're also gonna pair it with.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Well, it it really leads into what we were gonna talk about today very well because we were talking about you and I a couple weeks ago as we were brainstorming some different things. You mentioned something about uh a task or something, and we can't we were trying to remember.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

Yeah, I can't remember it either.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

And something you couldn't figure out, and I said, Well man, but but the way I'm wired, I would just work harder and try to figure it out. And then you said, But oh my gosh, that would be horrible.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

And I'm like, and then I was thinking so bad.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I got to thinking that you know, our triggered selves and our true selves really aren't all that different because you're saying what you said would be right if it was coming from the wrong energy, which a lot of times my needing to figure it all out is.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

Yeah, exactly. But the reason or like how you want to figure it out isn't bad because you've overcome and you've been able to figure out so much in your life, you're strategic, you're a visionary. That's actually like who you are, right? But then to try to do it just to do it without recognizing if that's your place or not, that's the sad part about it.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Well, and it kind of like I talked about, you know, what energy is it coming from? Is it coming from the energy of I have to? I need to, you know, that frantic energy of I gotta figure this out. And and sometimes, oftentimes it you know, many times it still is.

SPEAKER_05 10:19

Yeah, and that's that programming too of like.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

I feel like a burden, like I gotta figure it out, you know. But but when you said it was horrible, I actually stopped you and I said, now wait a second. We actually want people in the world that think this way. That whenever there's a challenge, they just think, okay, everyone said this can't be done, but there has to be a way.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the those are the visionaries, those are the revolutionaries. So those are the people that are able to see something and say, I know there's a way. And that's the beautiful part about it. But like you said, it's what energy we're doing it from. You know, you could probably give me tons of uh examples of when your true self was able to accomplish something or overcome something because you were able to apply that I can do this part of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Sometimes I think about, you know, because I'm wired that way, I think a lot about like the uh the early explorers. Um I'm thinking about these dudes that hopped on a boat to sail a direction, not having any idea how long they'd be sailing, yeah, where they were gonna land and what they were gonna encounter when they got there. Yeah. As like, but I guess it's good there's people that think that way.

SPEAKER_05 11:34

No, there is because we need every single type of person. And sometimes, just as much as our triggers are helping us survive, like if a predator was, you know, chasing you and you had to survive, triggers are also helping us see sometimes what needs to be done. But then we want to take that pause that can reconnect with our true self in it versus connecting to shame or connecting to have to or should or supposed to.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:01

Because that's gonna limit us from being able to do it with the fullness of who we are. Because if we're just trying to put out fires, you know, that's like that hot potato game. You're just gonna be constantly putting down, you know, the fires instead of actually being able to say, What is in my heart to do?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think a lot of it comes from what's your motivation coming from? Is it coming from your true self, which is connected to the spirit of God because you're made in the image of God? Or is it coming from the knowledge of good and evil?

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 12:32

That's that constantly measuring knowledge of good and evil, which is centered in shame. The knowledge of good and evil led us into shame and blame. And that's where you're usually where we get stuck in it.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah. So you've you've commented and said this numerous times to me that our our doing energy is limited, which is the shame energy, the knowledge of good and evil energy. Our being energy is unlimited. It is. So expand on that a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

Yeah. So, you know, like think about like doing something that you love to do. You know, hours go by and you don't even realize hours went by. You know, you're just, you know, you want to get back to it. You think about it when you're not doing it, whatever that thing is that's connected to your true self that you're inspired by that you want to do. And then when we think about what we do from our triggered space, it's going to be focused on, like you said, the knowledge of good and evil that I have to do to be loved, do to be accepted. So it no longer has that like self-driven, you know, excitement, desire, passion, all the things that actually create whatever we're, you know, creating in life, but that comes from our true self. And I think when we're in that triggered state, we're really limited because if we're doing, but we're not connected to who we are, eventually you're gonna get burned out. That's where burnout comes from. It's doing things because we have to instead of doing things because of who it's who we are.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah. Kind of the the Martha.

SPEAKER_05 14:06

The Mary and Martha, the Martha. I'm supposed to do this. Why aren't you doing it? Because this is what we're supposed to do to please, to perform, to have acceptance. Whatever it is we're looking for in this life, we'll do in order to receive what we're lacking. Instead of receiving what we're lacking, so that we can be instead of do. And it doesn't mean we don't do anything. Like one of my quotes is what you do matters. Like you're saying, like we do need to overcome things and accomplish things and you know be productive. It's not like we're not doing, but again, coming back to the motivation and the energy when it's coming from who I am, I'm doing without strings attached. I'm doing because I feel inspired to, because it's who I am, because it's in me that I want to express this to the world.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, and then it comes effortless. Yep, it really does.

SPEAKER_05 14:58

Even if there's challenges, exactly. But even if there's challenges, your perspective on a challenge, when you're connected to your true self, it's excuse me, it's no longer this, oh no, there's a challenge, I should just give up. If you're connected to your true self, you're like, there's 10 different ways we can do this.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Yeah, but you see, my triggered self and true self never give up. Like they don't, I don't that that's it's always yes, I'll always figure out an end. But when that's coming from the trigger, I burn out, I get grumpy, I get irritable, I get whatever. But when it's coming from, you know, who God made me to be, my true self, you know, it's it's energizing, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_05 15:37

And it's producing those fruits of the spirit, you know, it's producing those things versus taking away from you.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:42

How would you say your true self and your triggered self are similar? Well, I'd say just made it an example, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah, they're both really great at accomplishing things from either from either place. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 15:55

Yeah, no, I like hearing this. This is cool.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

And you know, many I was gonna look up the episode, but we did an episode a while back on like there's a concern because if you look at a lot of the people successful in business, you can see that a lot of that energy is coming from a trigger.

SPEAKER_05 16:10

Oh, yeah, definitely. 100% met with people and they're like, I used to be able to work 12 hour days without even blinking, and I was frantic and sick all the time and unhappy, but I could do it.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

And now they're like they were really successful, right?

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Yeah, they're like, I feel like it can only do eight hours because that's what it looks like to take care of myself and to be connected to myself.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

So there's this huge concern of, oh, am I gonna accomplish less?

SPEAKER_05 16:32

Yeah. You know, it won't mean the same thing anymore if your needs are met.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Yeah, well, and I and I don't think you're gonna accomplish less. I think that you're gonna accomplish more. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

With working less, potentially because it's spin a lot of our energy when we're in a trigger, yeah, that does not always produce what we think it's producing. We could do what if we were in our true self, we could do in an hour, but would ultimately sometimes take us like four hours to do.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah. You know, so I like we just had a recent challenge that I actually got I learned, I I caught wind of this through an email that came on Christmas Eve Day.

SPEAKER_05 17:09

And I was kind of good timing.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Well, yeah, right, right. It's gonna have a huge impact on our revenues for next year. And I'm like, well, thank you for sending that email on Christmas Eve Day. That's that's wonderful. Thank you. Merry Christmas. Yeah, thank you. Well, anyway, so then I had to prepare, I made brisket for Christmas, so I had to get up at 3 a.m. to get it to get it going for its 10-hour slow cook. And then I tried to go back to sleep and I couldn't because number one, I woke up at 3 a.m. and that's kind of just a struggle anyway to fall back asleep. Then I got thinking about that stupid email.

SPEAKER_05 17:44

Well, and and overthinking, people don't recognize this. Overthinking is a trigger.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_05 17:49

It's your way of trying to run from the predator of the email by overthinking and figuring it out so that you can have peace and be okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Oh, I believe me, I know what I was doing. So I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

I lived it, okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

I'm gonna work the remote control exercise, and and usually I can be pretty effective at that, but that night I couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

And I think part of it was I had this cold coming on too. So I was like feeling that, and I was fighting. So every time I would stop to feel, all I would start to feel is like these physical symptoms of this cold. I'm like, well, wait a second, you're not, I'm not dealing with you right now. I want you to just forget, be off to the side. I want to focus on this emotional.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Everything in a compartment, it'll be a lot easier.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yeah, and it was like this constant distraction, this little nagging, not feeling good was this constant distraction preventing me from getting. But finally, after two hours at 5 30 a.m., I finally got there and I fell back asleep.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Okay. But after I worked through that, I was able to look at this challenge with incredible excitement.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

When you're not in a triggered state, you're able to see the opportunity in the challenge. That's what I'm talking about. The challenge no longer seemed like a wall that was coming against you and stopping things and ruining things. Now it's like, oh, this could actually work towards our benefit, which even, you know, like a lot of people say, when people get worried, people that see opportunity and vision get excited. When people get excited, people that see opportunity see less opportunity there, you know, an investment and things like that. And so I feel like being able to recognize that many of the things that come against us that we think are going to hurt us and take away from us, if we see them as a trigger, take care of that trigger, we're able to see the opportunity within it.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:31

And I've seen over and over again some of the worst situations be the biggest opportunities, but we don't have eyes to see it. We don't have a heart to receive the opportunity because it doesn't come in the package that we expected.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah, 100%. And I think uh adversity all throughout human history has been just the absolute mother of invention.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

So the greatest breakthroughs happened during war.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

You know, uh which is horrible to think in many ways. But you know, there's uh quote I saw somewhere World War II began on horseback and ended with the splitting of the atom.

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

That's wild.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

That was basically a four and a half, five year old.

SPEAKER_05 20:17

Yeah, I was gonna say five years. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah. That's wild. Human beings can accomplish amazing things when when put to the test like that. Yeah, exactly. Um, so I think that yeah, you're 100% right, which leads to another thing, like what's where is both my true self and my triggered self alike is. And you could probably tell from the way I just shared what I said, I'm pretty blunt.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Yes, you are. You should hear the stuff Brian's told me very bluntly and directly, but I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

I'm blunt, um, probably bold, decisive. You know, I think they're they're both are, but when it comes from my trigger, I'm an absolute jerk.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Honestly, when it comes from my true self, some people still aren't gonna receive it because it's gonna trigger them because blunt people, blunt, bold people just trigger them.

SPEAKER_05 21:11

Exactly. But at the end of the day, and and so you know, we've known each other for years now, and we've you know talked about different things that can be challenging and everything like that. But to me, from my experience, when you're in your true self, you are actually a very kind. You're not doing everything you've done in your life, and I've heard you talk about this multiple times, you're not just doing it for yourself, you're doing it for your wife, you're doing it for your kids, you're doing it for your grandkids and their grandkids and their grandkids. So, like your vision is not a selfish vision, your vision actually cares even with the compassion method, how we've, you know, built this together, what we've invested and how we've connected with it. Like it's been the same thing. You want to see a hundred-year vision, you want to see this not just be you and I giving the compassion method, but people being able to do this even when we're no longer doing this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

And that's your heart behind it, and that's that's where the gift is that you can be your blunt, direct self because that's what's motivating it.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah. Well, and there's definitely times where I've tried to walk away from that part of me because I know that it's not well received. Even when it's coming from, even when it's coming from. The right heart. Yourself. Well, here's what here's the really good.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

But here's that again.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Well, there's times I've walked away from it just because I know that people aren't going to receive it well, even if it's coming from yeah, the best heart.

SPEAKER_05 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

The best heart and all of that. Because, you know, blunt people, that's often really triggering for people, even if they do it kindly.

SPEAKER_05 22:51

Yeah, that's true. You know, um, and that's interesting how we always think like our true, or I kind of think this, you know, like our true if I were our true self, like everything's gonna be okay. But sometimes being your true self doesn't always get the response that we're looking for. Sometimes it can be painful. But when we're in our true self, you know, kind of like I've talked about in the past, like whatever's bullying us, whatever reactions we're getting, if we're okay within ourselves, we may not get the response that we want, but we can still be true to ourselves because we're okay within ourselves. That's probably what's helped you come back up to to get up to bat again when you wanted to walk away when you didn't want to do it anymore, because you are okay, even if people don't know how to receive it, even if people get upset, especially now.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yes, yeah, now more than any other point in my life, yeah, more comfortable in my own skin. Yeah, 100%. Like yeah, it takes courage though, sometimes to be our true self. Well, I think that boldness too. The other thing is both my triggered self and true self are honest. Yeah, like um, I if you ask me if I like something or don't like something, don't ask me if you don't want to hear the actual truth.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Are you asking because you just want to be heard? Are you asking because you want the truth?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, do you want the truth, or do you just want me to like lie to you right now? You know, because I have a really hard time with not telling the truth. So like we were playing a game at Christmas, and they're like, Do you like it? No, did not like the game. How about we try this other game? No, it's boring, you know. So let's keep going, you know. So I'm just honest.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Um uh the other thing I kind of realized about our triggered self, true self, and I'm wondering if this is true, and I'd like your opinion. So, my triggered self can be very grumpy. The flip side of grumpy is playful. So, would you think that as grumpy as I can get to that extreme, my true self really is capable of being that playful to the other extreme?

SPEAKER_05 25:03

100%. Because remember how we've talked about the same circuit in our brain that we feel joy, we feel pain. And so when we suppress pain, which makes us grumpy, we're also suppressing joy, which makes us playful. And so when we're able to actually face the pain behind the grumpy, it releases, it allows us to feel the same measure of joy, and I think even more. So I believe like to the it's not just equal, like you know, you feel grumpy to a seven. So that therefore you're gonna feel joy to a seven. I actually think when we feel grumpy, we are actually gonna feel more joy when we can reconnect. Because definitely grumpy is is it's not just taking away from your play, it's your reaction, it's your survival, it's your protector because it feels scary to play.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Right.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

And if you were able to feel safe in play, you wouldn't need grumpy anymore. And you'd be able to fully be joyful to the same degree that you've been grumpy.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Yeah, play definitely feels scary for sure.

SPEAKER_05 26:12

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

How could you play at a time like this? You're supposed to be serious.

SPEAKER_05 26:17

Even it goes back to what you first started saying is like I'm always gonna do it. Like I always figure it out. There's a beautiful side of it like we're talking about. Yeah, there's also the trigger, and the trigger comes back to being little. And your programming says, if there's a problem, I have to figure it out. Probably by yourself. And I don't have any other options but to make this work, to figure it out. So that's the over-responsibility. That's being an ad a bigger kid, an adult before it's your time. So when we become adults too soon, we stop playing.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:55

And so when we help comfort and heal that little boy that felt like he had to do everything, no matter what or else, that can allow him to come back to being a child. The Bible says, unless you become like a child, you can't enter enter the kingdom of God. He's talking to adults, yeah. He's saying to adults, unless you become your child's self again, you can't enter into joy.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

And the kingdom of God is playful.

SPEAKER_05 27:21

Yes. So if we went back to that little boy that was working at a very young age on a farm, ranch, farm, was a very farm Midwest farm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, you know, but you're working on a farm at a very young age.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

It's actually a really big, that's actually a really big uh like rivalry between farmers and ranchers. But anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_05 27:39

Yes, yes, exactly. I knew it as soon as the kid's like it's not a ranch. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it's not a ranch, it's a farm. But you were starting at a very young age, and that doesn't mean we can't have a work ethic at a very young age. That's not what I'm saying at all. I actually feel like kids feel more purpose and more vision when they are actually empowered to work at a young age.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:00

But when it's paired with a fear, a loneliness, a sadness that I'm seven years old and I have to do everything on my own. And if I don't, it's something bad's gonna happen. So I have to be over-responsible at too young of an age. If you could go back to him and allow him to feel safe enough to go play, you'll feel safe enough as an adult to go play.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't ready for to have a session today, but yeah, thank you for thank you for squeezing that in there. I'll have to go back and listen myself so that I can sorry about that.

SPEAKER_05 28:41

I just saw it so clearly of just that little void.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Well, you can't help yourself. Like, this is just what you do.

SPEAKER_05 28:46

So like you see an opening stuff, yeah. But I pictured that little void. I saw him working so hard. And like if I was his mom, I would want to go up to him and say, Hey buddy, you work so hard. I'm so proud of you. And thank you for everything that you do for us and your family. Thank you. But it's time to go play.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

And even if you just sat there and couldn't do anything, I wouldn't let you work. No, I would I would create the space for you to play, and eventually you'd pick up that ball and you'd start playing with it. You know, eventually you'd go and build something, eventually you go do something that came from play-inspired connection with yourself.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

I had to do that with one of my daughters. She would fall down and get hurt, and she had this, you know, overindependence of not wanting to, I don't know all of her reasons, but she didn't want me to put band-aids on her, she didn't want me to hug her. She just says, I'm fine, I'm fine. She's like six or seven years old. So I had to like be like, No, I'm going to take care of you. You are my child. You're too little to take care of yourself. I'm I'm going to take care of you. And she would actually fight me with it at first. And then she let down and she let me come in and help her. So it's kind of an interesting thing because you wouldn't think you'd have to fight for your kids to be able to be a child, to be able to bring comfort, to be able to be dependent as they're meant to on a caregiver. But sometimes we have to fight for it.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Well, it's how much our triggered self pushes love away.

SPEAKER_05 30:17

Exactly. And when she's pushing me away, I'm like, no, my job as a mom is to help you feel comfort. If you had been my kid, my job as a mom would make sure that play was included in your development.

unknown 30:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Hmm. Yeah, that's good because um a lot of parents look at that as a badge of uh honor, like her liquid badge. I totally did.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

I was like, wow, she's so tough. She doesn't need me. She doesn't even cry. You know, most kids scream and cry. She would, I remember specifically, she fell off a bar stool and she's really tiny at her age. She was only like six or seven. She fell off and just fell straight down on her knees. You know, and they were like, you know, bleeding, but also like all swollen and everything. She pops back up. I'm fine.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I'm fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:05

And I was like, so cool. She doesn't scream, she doesn't cry, she's not a baby, she's not crying. And then I'm like, she's seven years old. She just fell off a bar stool and she's fine. That's not a badge of honor. That's an over-independence and over-responsibility that for some reason she didn't want to allow me to come in and comfort her when she got hurt.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah.

unknown 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

No, that's some really good perspective. Hopefully that gives everybody a lot of uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

We just cause sometimes it comes in packages we're not expecting, you know, like it can come in ways of, you know, looking at you. You were a hardworking kid. You're probably outworking the majority of this generation at your age, you know, and we can go, wow, what look at that work ethic.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah. Yeah. No, I I totally get that. And um definitely wrote a fair amount about that in the book. So yeah, for sure. Yeah. You know, one of the things I had written down that ties to what I shared earlier. I just saw this in my notes. I said I almost threw parts of me away because I was ashamed of them. I did not immediately see how my triggered self-behaviors were also my true self greatest strengths.

SPEAKER_05 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah, I did like the bluntness or the bold, you know, the decisive. Um even the doing.

unknown 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

You know, there's part of me that's like, oh, that's just all wrong. It's like, but no, it's not, you know. So one of the things uh also being more comfortable in your own skin, so to speak, more connected to your true self, you can come to terms with the fact that your true self is amazing, but not at everything. That's good. So I just had this, I had this, I don't know, owned a business for over 20 years, founded the business, and I don't know why it's taken me that long to figure this, some of this stuff out. But anyway, but any anybody that founds a business will know what I'm talking about. When you first start, you wear every single hat. Yeah, you're the CEO, you're the CFO, you are the head of IT, secretary, yeah, you're answering the phones, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

You're doing it all.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Like I don't know what other cat advertising sales, everything, like you're doing it all.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

And when I sat back and and looked at those, all those functions, and when we founded the company, I can look back at it now and be like, I suck at a lot of those.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Like I really do. Like I'm actually really bad. I'm average at a bunch of them at best, and then I really just kind of suck at a bunch of them too. And when you look at that from your trigger self, you view all that through shame and inadequacy.

SPEAKER_05 33:53

Yep. Like, I gotta work harder, I gotta become proficient at all these things. Go through that course, I've got to read that book, I've got to figure this out, every single aspect.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah, I remember when we started, I'm like, oh, I mean, I'm gonna go take a course at the community college on accounting because I didn't have much accounting background. And I so I did all that, and I'm like, um, yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot, and I've never been more comfortable being very open and honest about what I know I'm not good at.

SPEAKER_05 34:27

Yeah, I think that is just that's the beginning or the process of success, is recognizing what you are good at and then having the ability to feel safe enough to allow others to fill in for what you're not good at. That's the problem with doing everything ourselves, is we're gonna do a crappy job at the end of the day on some aspects of it because that isn't our gifting, that's not who we are, and we can blood, sweat, and tears and you know, make it work. But how much better if we had the right people in the right positions where they're thriving in their true self because that is who they are.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

People like to do, like I'm terrible at admin, as you know, but my admin girl right now, she's I don't know that at all. You didn't even have a clue about that one. Surprise.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Uh pull closer to the mic. Uh admin part. Okay, here's the other thing on admin. Just today. Oh, yeah, we were gonna meet at 15 minutes early. And then I get an I get a message. I forgot I had a call.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

No, no. Yes, so my organizational skill, things like that doesn't mean I can't grow in them, but it's not my gifting. Right. I can force myself to do it, I can grow in it, I can better things, and I do, and I have and I do want to. But when I have my admin girl come in and do it, she loves it. She like comes up with like, I'll give her an idea and she'll do like three other things on top of the idea that I gave her. Like, and she loves it. She goes, she'll even tell me, like, thank you for letting me do this. And I'm like, you're so welcome, because I it's not my gifting. No matter how hard I try to do it, it's not who I am.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Yeah. And we talk about, we've talked about this before, but this concept of agreeing with your adversary.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Yeah, because the instead of arguing and saying, No, I can figure it out, I'll figure it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, like the enemy will come against that you're deficient, you suck. And instead of just admitting, yeah, you're right, I suck. Yes, our true self is amazing, but not at everything. Not at everything.

SPEAKER_05 36:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

That's not the way God designed it.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

Nope, exactly. And when I can actually allow that without shame to allow others to come in to actually even be able to say, I this is not what I can I do it sometimes, but like you said, I'm not good at it. Can I allow the space and the trust to allow someone else to come in? But when you've and I'm talking about myself right now, even though you've shared some similar things, when you have an overindependence, at times, us filling in and doing everything is not only hurting ourselves, it's hurting others as well. Because we need everyone to do this life. Yeah, when we do it just ourselves, we miss out on so much. That's why the Bible says we're supposed to be working together as a body. You know, each person has their function, and each function is valuable because without that function, we wouldn't be able to do like your visionary, for example. Your visions would not come to pass if you didn't have people that were functioning in a different part. You might be the brain, but you need arms and you need legs and you need different aspects that you're not able to carry out your vision without others.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah, the Bible's very clear. Uh, Paul says this distinctly in First Corinthians 12, 14 through 21. He says, We are one body with many parts.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:53

And all valuable and all important. So when I say yes to things that I was meant to say no to, I'm actually hindering.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

You're stepping on somebody else.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

Exactly. I am. And I'm not allowing someone else to come in and do what they were meant to do to see a fulfillment of this vision being done in a way that will never be done if we do everything ourselves. Because if no one else is gonna do it, we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

That's actually a triggered response. You know what kind of frustrates me is that I I went to college. Yeah, I went to college and I took a bunch of classes. And I'm like, why don't they teach a class on some of this stuff? Like exactly because this is a some of you, some of you are gonna go found a business and entrepreneurship, and you're gonna you're gonna you you will have to wear every hat on day one. Yeah, maybe, but maybe if you're more aware of this, you could outsource some things and do some things right up, you could get resourceful or barter with people that are good at that. Like you don't have to do that.

SPEAKER_05 39:00

We'll switch.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, maybe we can help each other out a little bit, you know.

SPEAKER_05 39:03

There's 10 different ways to do it, but our triggered brain says we're the only one, and this is the only way.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

But that's just too practical. We're not we don't teach things practical, yeah. You know, like running a household budget. No, we're not gonna talk about that. We're gonna we're gonna talk about, you know, something that I is way over my head, you know, advanced calculus or something.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

So I'd be like the practical too.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Yeah, right, right, right, right. So so one other big advantage or big thing that's helped helped me in business being more connected to my true self that came up just recently is this really I just had this revelation that I've always spent so much time and energy focusing on what could go wrong.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

And trying to be a step ahead of it, which we've talked about this, where you talk about part of your triggered self is like trying to fix things with your worry. Like I'll try to fix it with my worry. And if I stop worrying about it, that means it will actually happen. But if I worry enough about it, I'll protect myself.

SPEAKER_05 40:04

If I overthink and I stay up all night thinking about it, I'm gonna protect myself from it.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

But there's obviously a true self component of it too, because there's huge wisdom in having the right insurances in place and having you know uh emergency plans and all those other things. Okay. But what really hit me is that why don't I put any energy at all? I mean zero.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

I've put zero energy into thinking about what if everything goes right?

SPEAKER_05 40:36

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Defense versus offense, and I'm more successful or the business is more successful than I ever could have imagined than what? Is is the business structure, yeah, are there systems in place to allow that to happen? Is the business structured in a way that it wouldn't break it if that were to happen? Um, and then I got to thinking, I wonder how many times God withholds prosperity or things from people because he knows that you're just just gonna crush them.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

I like it's gonna ruin them.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Yeah, yeah, it's just it's gonna ruin them. So they're better off staying poor and miserable. Because rich and miserable will be way worse. Yeah. No, I poor and miserable is way better than rich and miserable.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

So overgiving of good things sometimes can hurt as much as much as the hard things we go through. And if our whole entire strategy is defense, you're never gonna win.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah. Yeah. And part of that connects with the visionary part of like, you know, learning to really think about our company as the number one customer. Okay. And if I'm the company, what would I want? Well, I would want a structure in place that could outlast all of the people living here because I can continue. These people are all limited by time because they're gonna die. You know, sorry, sorry to break that's a blunt part of me. Sorry, sorry, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Sorry, everyone's gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Sorry, sorry to be so blunt. Um, sorry bluntly, but yes, unless something happens.

SPEAKER_05 42:19

Even if you're 99 like my grandma, my my grandpa's 100 right now, eventually everyone does die. Yeah, we're gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

We're all we're all slowly dying as of as of this this uh this taping of this. Who knows what they'll come up with in the future. But I I think that they're not gonna beat that. But anyway, so if I'm the company though, I can outlive all these people. But is there a structure in place that allows that to happen?

SPEAKER_05 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Okay. And it's up to us to put that structure in place to allow that to happen.

SPEAKER_05 42:50

Exactly. It's the difference between passive income and having to work for your income. It's being able to develop something that's able to produce and outproduce us.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:00

Go beyond, go beyond the founder, which because you only have, even if you live to 100 years old, you only have a certain amount of hours, a certain amount of days to be able to produce something.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:12

And so when we don't learn about multiplication and we just stay doing everything ourselves and not having that bigger, bigger offense position, and we're only in a defense position, trying to keep what we have, because you have to spend money to make money. You have to be able to allow to grow. But if I'm so defensive, because I'm trying to protect, because my value and worth is in my success, I can't allow failure. So therefore, I can't allow others to come in. I can't allow bigger things than me because it begins and ends with me. And that's not the hundred-year vision that's on your heart right now.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

No, no, they'll it'll never get there. So been thinking a lot about that, and that's been that's been a lot of fun because that's true self-fun, you know, to to do that.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

But what if what if it went better than expected?

SPEAKER_00 44:03

So I I to me it's just so exciting to think about putting something in motion that goes beyond your lifetime. Like, yeah, that's just so cool.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

And it's is and my true self doesn't care about credit or no notoriety or any of that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 44:22

It's just about just being able to influence the earth bigger than your life.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yes. Yes, absolutely. That's That's so funny.

SPEAKER_05 44:29

For all of us, even how you raise your family. Doesn't it can be in business for sure, but how you raise your family, how you live your life, you know, how you do the compassion method to be able to stay connected to your true self and live from there.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Well, and it was a huge motivator for wanting to write a book about all of this.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Was to be that.

SPEAKER_05 44:48

Yeah, your message is bigger than just a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

A book can last, you know, maybe it will, maybe it won't, but it can.

SPEAKER_05 44:54

But it can.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

The potential for it to last is there. Exactly. So, which is really fun. So I think uh to kind of wind things down today, like one of the one of the homeworks that I was gonna throw out to people is to think of what you see as your greatest weakness. Like just have the audience think about that. Like, what is your greatest weakness and really challenge, like, is it really? Or is it just a weakness because it's coming from the wrong energy? Because it's coming from that trigger, that lack, that knowledge of good and evil, shame, all of that. Um so I wonder how many people are doing what I almost did, which was throwing true self parts of themselves away.

SPEAKER_05 45:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Because when it manifests in their triggered self, it looks really gross, yeah, and ugly and unsightly.

SPEAKER_05 45:52

That's really good. I love that. And we're trying so hard to frantically get rid of it that we don't see the opportunity. We don't hear what it's trying to tell us. We don't get to be able to say, Oh, I bet the my biggest weakness right now isn't really about what I think it's about. And what I mean by that is, you know, like it feels a lot of times our biggest weakness is contingent on our behavior or someone else's behavior. And I'm thinking right now of like, wow, like if I am connected, if I see my big, like, for example, when you said that, I was thinking, I kind of feel in like limbo right now. I'm not really sure. My kids are all grown now, they're all, you know, like trying to figure out, okay, what else, what am I gonna do? So I'd say right now my biggest weakness feels stuck. But then I'm like, oh, like that goes directly with my true self of I've my whole entire life, I've had hope. I know that I know. I've implemented so many things in my life because I know things. So it's not really about being stuck, it's about me not being connected to me that knows things, even if I don't know. So I know that seems like a little off of it, but like I can feel it. I'm like, oh, it's not my biggest weakness is not being stuck right now. My biggest weakness ultimately is not being connected to myself and not being connected to my knowing.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Well, and the opportunity in the fact that you're now kind of an empty nester.

SPEAKER_05 47:21

Yeah, such an opportunity if we can get past the pain that keeps us feeling stuck.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Yeah, so you got some homework too then.

SPEAKER_05 47:30

I do, and it's so funny though, even as I'm talking right now, this happens to be a lot. Like it's so silly sometimes. Like if it's felt so big feeling stuck, and it's felt so like I just don't know what to do, and I just feel so stuck.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

And then like now, I feel like I'm like getting into like my true brain as you're like talking about it, and I'm like, oh, this is not that hard. This is not that like as dark as it feels, or as well, you know, helpless as it feels, like hopeless.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

It's not but the stuck part is a little five or six or seven-year-old girl. Exactly. Yep, it is really big.

SPEAKER_05 48:00

She's had her whole life planned out between being raised, having kids young, raising your kids, and now what?

SPEAKER_00 48:06

You know, but when you've when you have kids, there isn't really even much of a plan because like you raise it. Like they they they they dominate it, like that is exactly. Yeah, yes, that is the plan.

SPEAKER_05 48:17

So the plan's happening. Now that that plan is never over, you're parent forever. But as far as the same responsibilities and the same uh daily application, like I don't have that anymore. And you think that would be the best moment, but because of my pain, my my pain saying, I can't see, I don't know where to go, I feel stuck. But then, like, as I feel so funny, like two different people almost right now. My true self is looking at it, going, like, this is the best. Like, we're at most, we're at like this like beautiful options that you've never had before. Yes, lots of that's only scary because I feel little in this moment because I've never done this before.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yeah, so that playful, adventurous part of you is getting suppressed.

SPEAKER_05 48:57

Yes, and now I'm feeling that, and I'm like, Oh, it's I I'm not stuck. I just felt stuck.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yeah, well, it'll be fun to see where you land. Next time we'll be doing this podcast, and she'll be in Tahiti or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

Yeah, it's 2026. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

That's right. Yeah, so she'll have uh a beach in the background, and um, I found it. People bringing your daiquiries all the while we're doing this.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

So yeah, not stuck anymore.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Not stuck anymore. Uh yeah, but I got a hunch that that's not gonna happen. So you're gonna be, you're gonna, you're gonna get unstuck in a different way than that is my uh anticipation.

SPEAKER_05 49:37

So yeah, I agree. You know, we have those fantasies of what we're gonna do, but it's more of a it's a bigger thing. It's within me, it's my true self. Whatever that, however, that manifests is secondary to me. Me knowing that I know who I am and that I have all power, I have all choice, I have I have strategy, I have wisdom, I have help, I have so many different things.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Well, here's what I think, here's an idea I think you should consider, and I think a lot of our listeners will agree. So we are blessed with having listeners literally all around the world.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

So I really think you should go on a speaking tour. And I think our I think our listeners would be like, yes, we think that Laura should go on a speaking tour. So have you ever done a speaking tour?

SPEAKER_05 50:21

I mean, you've done little things, but like an actual I've tried, no, yeah, I've traveled and done um one event, you know, like gone to an event, but I've never done like a tour where I went multiple places at a time.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Um, yeah, I think that you could you could easily put that together.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

You might need options. You might need some administrative help putting that together.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Well, I would. I'm glad that I don't have to do that all myself.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

If you need ideas of how to handle empty nesting, like I got I got all kinds of ideas for you.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

You're not stuck. Here's a hundred ideas.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Well, and then speaking of writing a book, you know, that's something that Laura needs to be done too. Yeah, there's that too, you know. So you want some more ideas?

SPEAKER_04 51:01

I feel like I've got a lot of ideas.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

I could get you unstuck pretty fast. Yeah. So very good. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining us today. And thank you, Laura, for sharing your heart and all of your wisdom with us. It's been it's been great. And you also, I got a free session out of this deal, so I got to go back and you know, read the notes on this. So, but thank you so much. And thank you, everyone, for listening. And uh until next time, goodbye.

SPEAKER_05 51:26

Yeah, bye, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Thank you again for joining us for this episode of Triggered and True. We hope that you enjoyed it. As a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, go to triggeredandtrue.com, scroll down to the bottom of the page, and click ask. And if you would like to learn more about the compassion method, be sure to check out the compassion method master course, which can be purchased at compassionmethod.net. And as a podcast listener, you qualify for a $50 discount, which can be obtained by typing in the coupon code podcast50. Again, that's compassionmethod.net, coupon code podcast50. Thank you again. Goodbye.