(Ep. 72) Why You Can't Force Emotional Growth: Shame, Self-Control & the Performance Trap

What if the Christian life was never meant to be about trying harder, but about healing deeply enough that love becomes natural?

In this episode of Triggered & True, Laura Duncan and co-host Brian Friese continue their conversation about faith and emotional healing by exploring one of the biggest misunderstandings in the Christian life: the difference between producing the fruit of the Spirit and trying to manufacture it through willpower.

Using Galatians 5 as the foundation, Laura explains why Scripture calls love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, and self-control fruit—not accomplishments. 

Fruit isn't something we force; it's the natural result of a healthy root. In the same way, emotional healing and a deep relationship with God create the conditions where Christlike character grows from the inside out.

Rather than leaving listeners with another list of spiritual behaviors to achieve, this episode offers a freeing invitation: stop striving to look like Jesus, and begin allowing Him to heal the places that keep His life from flowing naturally through you.

In this episode:

🔹 Why the fruit of the Spirit is something God grows in us—not something we produce through willpower

🔹 How emotional healing removes the wounded patterns that keep Christlike character from flowing naturally

🔹 The connection between the Compassion Method, inner healing, and spiritual transformation

🔹 Why trying harder often leads to frustration—and why a relationship with God leads to lasting change

🔹 How healing your heart allows love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, and self-control to become the natural overflow of your life

📩 Get your free Weekly Dose of Compassion — two short notes in your inbox every week. One to speak over yourself. One from Laura: https://www.lauraduncan.com/pl/2148814868

🔗 Learn more:

https://triggeredandtrue.com

https://lauraduncan.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Hello and welcome everyone to this episode of Triggered and True. Hello, Laura. Thank you for joining us today, as always.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

In our last episode, we talked about is the compassion method that you've developed, Laura, biblical? Because people from time to time would have questions about how it connects to their faith. And we've talked about how you don't have to have a particular faith to benefit from the compassion method. But a lot of the people that have engaged the compassion method happen to be Christians.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

And they have a lot of questions about how this connects to their faith and the word of God and so on. And we talked about that extensively on the last episode. Now, on this episode, we're going to be taking it a step further. We're going to be talking about how the compassion method empowers you to live the truth of what Scripture teaches us. And Laura, you are going to enlighten us on that. But before we jump to that, I have a devotional that I read every week from a pastor by the name of Rick Joyner. And he shared something a couple weeks ago that was really, really powerful in his Word for the Week. And I think it sets up what we're going to talk about today very, very well. He says like wounded animals, wounded people tend to fear anyone that would try to get close to them, even those seeking to help them. These two scenarios capture a large part of the human population. This makes how we relate to and exercise authority one of the most important issues in our time. And then he goes on. So that he can control those, so that he can control them with those wounds. A person with unhealed wounds cannot get close to others and will resist being touched. We talk a lot this about this a lot. When you're hurting, you push people away, you stay disconnected from yourself and from others. Just as it is in the physical, it is true with emotional and spiritual wounds too. This creates increasing divisions between people and an inability for them to get healed. So I thought he was hitting on a lot of the things that we talk a we talk a great deal about. How when we're hurting, when our pain is running the show, how we are disconnected from ourselves or disconnected from others, and just the profound downstream consequences of that. How it impacts relationships with others, our relationship with God, and so on. And then the last part I was going to read from uh his word for the week, I thought was was really interesting. He said one requirement for priests in the old covenant was that they could not have scabs. A scab is an unhealed wound. A person with unhealed wounds will be too sensitive to let people get close to them or touch them. If a priest has unhealed wounds, how are they going to get close enough to others to help them get healed? That's really good. I thought a lot about that. And one of the things I've told some of my pastor friends, I said, you know, I didn't realize this until I had my Great Awakening and was introduced to you, Laura, and the compassion method. I did not realize how much church was a magnet for hurting people, which is a beautiful thing. You know, a lot of people are going to church because they're hurting, and that's that's not a bad thing. But when they get there, they're looking for a fix. And if the pastor is kind of unaware of what's going on underneath the hood of his own self, not to mention the parishioners, you know, that's kind of the Old Testament, you know, here where it said a priest shouldn't have unhealed wounds, you know, because it's going to create downstream consequences. So I thought it really was a good setup for today.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, definitely. And it also reminds me of how, you know, when we do the school, it's always going back to the student first and then how they're going to use the compassion method. So as we are learning and training to become compassion method consultants, it's always having equal parts focus on the person as well as what they're going to, how they're going to use it, which I think is so important because there's so many people that are helpers, that are the priests or the helpers in this world that have so much pain that they have so many scabs, as that uh devotion said, that what ends up happening is they're getting triggered by the very people that they're wanting to help. And so it makes it very difficult to help because we end up sometimes even agreeing with the person or agreeing with their wound because we still have a wound that hasn't been taken care of.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So what we're what we're going to do, and one of the things that's been so powerful for me with the compassion method is there was this huge disconnect between what the Bible said and the reality of my life.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Huge disconnect. I knew what the Bible said, read it a lot, memorized it, did all the things, but I would feel a lot of shame for not being able to actually do the things that the Bible said. And like one big one for me is in the area of anger. So I think that's a great place to start.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

I remember one time I was talking to a uh uh a pastor, and I said, you know, I'm just an angry person. And he was very wise because he stopped me. He said, No, you're not. You're not an angry person. So it's like that was like a pre-little compassion method, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

It's not who you are.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Yeah, it's not who I am. And in James 1.20, it says, Man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. You know, and you helped me see that my anger wasn't like like like the pastor told me years prior, it wasn't who I was, but you helped me see what it was. So you want to unpack that a little bit more?

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, sometimes when I start, um I'll start very simply when I'm meeting with one people one-on-one, and I'll just say in the last week, have you felt sad or scared or lonely or angry? And when people say, you know, they pick anger because they felt that, I always get so excited. And people always kind of laugh when I say that because they're like, oh, you really like the anger. And I was like, yes, because there's so much shame connected to anger. And what anger really is, is just ungrieved sadness. It's loneliness that we haven't had someone be with us in. It's scared that we haven't felt the protection and safety in. And so we're really just feeling sad, but we push sad down because we don't know how to feel it. We don't know the value of feeling it. And so we push sadness down until it comes out angry. So it's just really suppressed, more tender, vulnerable emotions that are hard for us to feel. And so we end up covering it up with anger. So that anger is the reaction to the wound that we haven't taken care of.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, and I and I would think about passages of scripture like Luke 645, where it says, Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

I'm like, oh man, when I'm angry, I would say a lot of dumb things. Still do, by the way. This isn't this isn't resolved issue completely. You know. I uh I've had I've had a few of those in the last couple of weeks too. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. I'm I'm moving, but I recognize it.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Recognizing it and then recognizing what's behind it is so valuable. You know, the reaction itself is not the sin, you know. The reaction, I think the sin of it is when we don't actually take care of it, we just end up blaming and taking it out on other people because we don't know how to face what's within ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah. Yeah. And I know that a lot of times in Christian circles, anger can get Christianized. And commonly, when I observe a Christian that really loses it, there's frequent times that they'll be like, well, you know, Jesus in the temple, he was pretty angry too. I'm like, I don't think he was having a temper tantrum, though. You just had a temper tantrum. You were just a toddler having a temper tantrum. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

This is what I think was a little bit different, you know. Yeah. No, there's a place for anger for sure, but it's where it what's where it's coming from is so important to recognize. But James 120 hits it so good. Man's anger.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

There's actually not a place for man's anger. The triggered anger that we're talking about, the temper tantrums. There's not a place for temper tantrums.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

But I suppose if you're a toddler, there's a place for it.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yeah, I guess so. If you're a kiddo. But we're acting like kiddos because we're in our child brain.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah. Yeah. So definitely the compassion method helped me understand what was going on under the hood. And that healed, that just just even the understanding helped heal quite a bit of shame.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Do you see that a lot in people, even before they're able to apply it?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah. Well, even like in the beginning, like I said, I'll say, you know, those pick anger and I'll say, Oh, I'm so glad you picked that, because there's so much shame connected to it. You know, if you cry, someone's going to come close to you and give you a hug or empathize with you or connect with you. But if you get angry, people push you away. So it's one of the lonely most lonely emotions to feel because of the isolation that comes from anger.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Well, the compassion method definitely helps walk that out in my Christian life. Yeah. You know, anger. And it helps me process it after I happened. And like my repentance can, I feel like, be more real.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah, because you actually know what you're saying sorry for. You know, we're not just saying sorry for our behavior. We're saying sorry because we understand where it came from as well.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Mm-hmm. And repentance is to turn.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Mm-hmm. Change that way that you're thinking.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Change the way that, yeah. So I wish I didn't have to repent anymore, though. I wish I could just stop it completely, right? Yeah, right. Yeah. So anyway, but but another big one is forgiveness. So, you know, interestingly, I've always been fairly quick to forgive because my tendency is to blame myself more than to blame others. So it's easier to forgive. But, you know, you've worked with a lot of people that struggle in the area of forgiveness. And probably Christians that feel shame, how they're not able to, like, you know, the parable that uh Jesus shared in Matthew uh 18, where he talks about the servant that was forgiven like this humongous sum of money. And they they I've seen it equated to like today's terms, like it's millions of dollars or something. And then somebody owed him a few bucks. And like he wouldn't let that person off the hook at all, you know. And um, anyway, so just talk about some of your experiences with people and forgiveness and where you've seen them in the start to where they finished.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Yeah, no, definitely. Um, and there is so much shame connected to not being able to forgive people, you know. There's often people that will try to forgive and forgive and forgive, but the emotion keeps coming back up again because it hasn't been resolved. And so I kind of look at it as like if I had a um wound on my hand and I'm going to keep trying to heal it, cover it up. And so what ends up happening is we're we're doing that with whatever someone's wronged us has created a wound that we can't let go of because it hasn't been taken care of. And so I look at unforgiveness as the inability to be able to let forgiveness or let the person go, forgive them, because we still have a wound that hasn't been taken care of. And that's why we keep repeating it and repeating it, because we haven't actually taken care of that wound. And I also look at it as almost a um uh survival mechanism to a certain degree, because we're not gonna be able to survive. If I still have a wound that hasn't been taken care of, and I forgive that person, but I don't take care of the wound, I'm gonna, I'm going to, I'm gonna have, I'm gonna have an injury, I'm gonna have an infection. And so what ends up happening is it causes us to have to take care of the wound because we're not able just to be able to forgive through words. We have to forgive because we've actually been taken care of in the way that that person has hurt us. And so I always like stop people from going down the forgiveness path. And we go down the path of taking care of why that wound is there in the first place, because that's what we're holding on to. But when that wound's taken care of, we will let people go.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

I would imagine to some, when you say we're not gonna focus on forgiveness, we're gonna actually focus on the wound. That's a little scary for them.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Definitely, because we're in that thing of we need to do the right thing. You know, that's one of the huge things about trying to be a good Christian. It's so much about doing. So we want to do the right thing and forgive, but our forgiveness cannot be authentic until we've taken care of the wound that's causing the unforgiveness in the first place. And it is scary because it'd be better just to do word service and say, I forgive this person, than to actually face the pain that we felt because of that, what those that person did to us.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

So can you really even truly forgive if you don't comfort the wound behind it?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I don't think so. And that's why I see it happen so many times where it keeps coming back up again because it hasn't been resolved. And I think when Jesus is calling us to forgiveness, he's actually calling us. Like we can look at that, you know, scripture you mentioned of like he had all this money and then someone owed him a couple dollars, and we're like, oh, that's so, you know, so dumb that he did that. Um but we do it all the time, right? Exactly. We do it all the time because, you know, when you're when you're in a greedy place, when you feel like you need to have everything, that's coming from your lack. So of course that person couldn't forgive that couple dollars because of even though he had so much, it actually was a reflection of the lack within himself, that he would need that couple dollars, even though he had millions of dollars. And that's what we're kind of doing with our unforgiveness with people, is we can't help ourselves from having resentment, bitterness, frustrations. You know, think about the people that you don't like in your life. And when you think of them, what does that feel like? So that's the thing that is actually tormenting us, and that's why Jesus is talking about how why forgiveness is so important, is because it torments us. A lot of times I'll talk about, you know, do you have villains in your story? And because we're so busy blaming the people that have wronged us in our life, we're not taking care of what's going on within us. That's why we blame so much. We're constantly blaming other people because we don't want to take care of the wound, just as much as we want to forgive in word, but we don't want to forgive in that deeper part of what's actually hurting us.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Can you see how this also connects to, you know, I mentioned that I blame myself.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

So some of this forgiveness has to be self-forgiveness, too.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yes, definitely. And I like how you differentiated that. If you are commonly blaming other people, you know, you're gonna recognize that you don't have forgiveness with those people. But then I love that you said that that if we're quick to forgive others, but we're not quick to forgive ourselves. When we think of ourselves, just as much as you think of a villain and you have like that negative feeling connected to it, if we think of ourselves in reference to something that we haven't forgiven ourselves in, it's gonna have that same uh feeling to it. And so we want to actually reconcile forgiveness within ourselves as much as we want to with other people as well. And a lot of people haven't forgiven themselves.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

And it's the whole mirror image thing. So if they're not forgiving other people, it probably connects back to them not forgiving themselves.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Exactly. And like and there's also the other scripture, I can't remember where it is right now, but the other scripture of Jesus saying, I've forgiven you. And if you're not gonna forgive others, you know, you're gonna be tormented in that. And I think that is so connected to that, that if we're not able to do that, we are going to be tormented in it.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

So not being able to forgive others, what would could you say though, at the root of that is a lack of not being able to forgive yourself?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

I would say so for sure. Because I think it always comes back to how we see ourselves and what we're holding on. Even if someone will adamantly say it's about the other person, it's usually it not usually, it is a reflection of what's going on inside of us. It is the mirror image.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

So another one I had written down here is the spirit of offense. And I think it closely connects.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Um explain how it closely connects?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah. So I always look at kind of being offended as um, I've talked about this before, like, you know, being on like your soapbox, you know, of what you believe or how you think people should be, or what you think people shouldn't be doing. And we have this soapbox. So we're very offended by people that don't do what we think they should be doing. And so there's an if either towards us or towards others, we're offended by them. But again, that's just an extension of blame because we're offended because they aren't doing X, Y, or Z. And you can always tell what is within us by what we don't like about somebody else. So whenever I hear somebody venting about somebody else, I'm like, oh, that is actually a reflection of how you feel about yourself. And you're making a bigger deal about it, and you're getting very offended by it and very upset by it because it's actually something that you don't like about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Hmm. Yeah, that one, that one takes a little while to to process because blame feels so good.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Mm-hmm and so justified. And so spirit of offense feels so good. It does, because it's it's that blame. I can I can no I don't have to connect with what's going on inside of me if I'm so distracted by you. So if I'm offended by you, I can stay preoccupied with how you've offended me without actually taking care of what's going on within me. And that is so liberating in the moment. But the unfortunate part about it is it just keeps coming back up again and coming back up again because that's actually resolved. Yep, exactly. That's like people say, like, if I get this person out of my life, I'm gonna be better. Nope. You're gonna find another person just like that person because that's what we're drawn to. And so until we take care of it, we're gonna continue to repeat the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

The Holy Spirit will probably help you find someone just like that person.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Exactly. The Holy Spirit's like we gotta deal with this.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

We're gonna deal with this. We're gonna deal with this. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, that's an that's another great way. The you know, and I guess as I go through the process, I can see it so well in how I relate to others. I still have some significant growth to do and how I relate to myself.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah, exactly. And you'll see the biggest growth when you actually take care of yourself and not even distracted by trying to be okay with other people.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

I actually have a trigger I need to go revisit that I just thought about. I had a phone call with um with some people that I we're we do business with, our company does, and I was trying to uh get this thing done, and I got overly blunt, as I tend to do. And um, and after I did it, I was like, uh, I wanted to just reach in the phone and grab the words and bring them back, but I was like, I said it, and I'm on this conference call and there's all these people on it, and I was like, okay, I can't unsay that. So I like the shame was just like blowing up inside of me, like just blowing up. And I'm like, uh so at the end of the call, I tried to make it right, you know, I said kind of a did a half hearted apology of sorts, but but then I but then I was wondering, I'm like, well, did they receive it the way I think they received it? Like, was it as bad as I think it was? So I didn't know how to apologize because I didn't know for sure if I had anything to apologize for. So I was just doing this whole. But afterwards, I just felt the shame just came on. Like I So upset with myself. And I'm like, I do a podcast on this stuff. I just wrote a book about this stuff. And here I am.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Still triggering, like we all are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Blowing it. You say like like you say that all the time, like we all are, but your triggers are just so gentle. No, I've got triggers too. Everyone does. And it's good. You do have triggers, but you don't you don't look like a jerk when you have your triggers.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

They do come out in different forms.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah, but yours, yours just come out so much softer and gentler. And I come out like a jerk because I'm so aggressive. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

But that's the same. So maybe my triggers are better because they're more obvious. Yes, they are more obvious.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

You can see them. They're not, you know, they're not just subtly there. They're they're bluntly there.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

I'm kind of like face planning all over the place. So it's like I'm the yeah, I'm not the passive aggressive one. I'm the aggressive one. So I'm the aggressive trigger. It is obvious. Yeah. Yes, it is obvious. So yeah. So I need to go back to that one and and do some do some heart work around it.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Let myself feel the shame.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Which no one wants to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yep. And I think often, exactly. But I think often in Christianity, we're trying to follow this, you know, this rule book, you know, and then possible standard.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

And it's like, didn't the old testament show us that that doesn't work?

SPEAKER_00 24:04

It does not work.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Exactly. And the old testament is like, I don't know, like two-thirds of the Bible. So it took two-thirds of the Bible to show you what doesn't work. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

And we're still trying to do it because that's I think what a lot of the shame comes is we're trying to be perfect. We're trying to do everything right. And if we say something the wrong way or we get angry or we make a mistake, it's like make it's like that feeling of like, you know, not passing a test, failing. You know, there's something about that. I think that's very strong that doesn't allow us to actually be able to recognize where where it's coming from in the first place because we're so preoccupied with our perfect list of what we're doing that we're not actually paying attention to what's motivating us. You know, when you talk about like the fruits of the spirit, for example, that's a byproduct. It's an overflow of what's going on inside of you. It's not trying to have self-control. It's, I am so full of love. I have everything I need that I can control myself because I'm not out of control with my pain and my lack. And so it starts to be these natural byproducts, not trying to white knuckle and do these things, but actually be able to be the things that we're meant to be. We were we're being kind. We're not doing kind. And I think as we can start to have those be more byproducts, it's gonna be a lot more of a genuine relationship instead of a rule book.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Well, that's exactly where I was gonna go next was to the fruits of the spirit. You said you said a quote to me in our one-on-one sessions that I highlighted and I've never fully grasped. So you're gonna help with that. But let's just read the fruits of the spirit. So I have that down. So Galatians 5, 22 through 23. Well, that worked out good. Yep. But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. So I read that, and that's pretty overwhelming. Because that means to have evidence that the Holy Spirit's working in me, right? I need to have love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness. Oh my gosh, this is a lot to do, Brian. A lot to do. Yeah, this is kind of scary. I'm I'm kind of freaking out. But here's the quote that you're gonna help me unpack and everybody else listening. You said, actually, I should have just said the quote and said, Laura, who do you think said that? And you're gonna be like, you know, Einstein or something. It's so good. No, it was Laura. It was you. Okay. It says, you said, you can't do self-control because it is a fruit. You can't tell an orange to grow.

unknown 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to tell ourselves to grow and to do, and that's why it feels overwhelming. Imagine if you tried to tell an orange to grow and you had to make it grow for God to be okay with you. And if you couldn't make it grow, then you were gonna fail and God wouldn't be okay with you. See the impossibleness of that. But if it grows within you as a byproduct of who God created you to be in his image, it's natural. It's not supposed to be so hard. It's not supposed to be so much work.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

I like hard though. It's supposed to hurt. It's supposed to be like walking on glass, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:49

Right. We're supposed to suffer.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Gosh, Laura, I still gotta think on that more. I get it. I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Well, because you like the production.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

I don't want to let go of it. But I do want to let go of it because that list is overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

It is, you know, and even if you do it really well and you act really well, it's not natural. It's forced. And we really can't do it without being connected to who we really are. So if you're doing it separate from who you are, you're gonna fail at it every single time because it's not gonna be you. You have to think of the uniqueness of who each of us are. So there's the uniqueness of my joy, my self-control, my righteousness. It's the uniqueness of that, that we're actually that's where um our power is. The power to be joyful, the power to be all those things comes from the fuel, which is you. But we're trying to fuel it with shame because shame says you need to do these things to be okay. And if you don't do these things, you're not okay. But we know we are actually okay, regardless of what we do because of who made us and the image of God that we're made in. That's where we live from. That's why Jesus died to restore us to our original design. I think Colossians 120, I think is says Jesus' blood restored us to our original design so that we can live from that place and do from that place. That's where our power is. But we think our power is in the ways that we can control that if we work really hard and we suffer a lot and it's really difficult, and we're able to push through and do it, then we'll be successful. Because that gives us a um relief from our shame.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

But you the more you do even good things, the shame's always there, and you're just on that hamster wheel.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

And that's why most Christians, as they're doing all the right things, burnout, are in so much shame because they're doing more than being. And we'll never be able to fulfill it through doing, because all of our works are, you know, are don't produce what we think they can, but here we are trying to be self-righteous, to create our own purity, to create our own good works, and all of it is worthless because it's not connected to who we are.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah. And if we could figure it out and gain the whole world, yeah. And lost our soul in the process.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Exactly. That's why Jesus would look at the Pharisees, because they would do all the right things, but they were dead inside. They weren't doing it from who God created them to be. They were doing it for good works to be known. And he said, You guys are whitewashed tombs. You do everything perfect on the outside, but inside you're dead. And that's what it looks like when we try to do all the right things, but inside we're dead.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Well, that's what he said to him. I had one of the verses I had down was Matthew 15, 18. Because they were challenging him about all the the food, all the all the rules they had.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Which a lot of them weren't even in the Old Testament. They were just new rules they created. In addition to the ones there was like there wasn't already enough in the Old Testament. Let's make some of them. There wasn't enough. Let's the old covenant. There's just make some more. But Jesus said to him, He said, But whatever word comes out of the mouth comes from the heart. And this is what defiles and dishonors the man. Not what you eat, but what comes out of your mouth, which is a reflection of what's in your heart. That's what defiles. Yeah, taking care of the heart. So, and I think I think of it, gosh, it's so hard to let go of the doing because we want to earn it and we want to Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

We want to measure it.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Maybe it's just me.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

Well, if we can, I think that comes back to the root of um not having the gift of knowing that you're enough. So you always have to do because that's going to increase your internal value. So you'd be enough. And if you don't do, you're not gonna be enough.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Yeah. So I'm letting go of my protector. Yeah, yeah, for doing exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Getting the perfect report card, doing everything right.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Roll the perfect oranges.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yep, because at the end of the day, that our little brains, our child brains, translate that to if I do all the right things, then I'll be enough for mommy and daddy. And then they'll love me and see me and hear me and accept me and be with me. Conditional love.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah, and I think I think doing this honors Jesus so well because he died. We we we were in really up a creek without a paddle.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

And then, you know, he died to get us right, and we're still trying to get right the other way. Exactly. It's like, I did this for you. Like, you had this thing that you this unfixable thing in your life, you know, sin, this unfixable thing. You couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Not by shame is the root of everything. Because that's the thing that keeps us from being able to receive the free gift of love, the free gift of his sacrifice. We can't receive it because we're trying to do for it. It's like the only the key, you know, to walk into that room. The key is to receive, but we're trying to do to receive. Because our early childhood development taught us that doing equals love and acceptance. Doing good equals love and acceptance. But what if you could be loved and accepted, whether you did good or you did bad. You were equally still loved.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Yeah, it'd be a lot easier to just own it too. Own it, repent where you need, and it'd be real.

unknown 35:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

It'd be real repentance.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Yep, that would actually change the way we think, which would change the way we're gonna do it. Yes, exactly. Shame-based repentance is temporary, it's never going to actually stick. You know, if we want it to actually stick, we actually have to receive it. And that's what I think is so valuable about the compassion method, is it actually allows us to receive. People say, well, isn't Jesus' love enough? We don't need gift givers, we don't need other people, God's enough. But that's 100% true. But if we're not able to receive that love, then his love isn't enough because we haven't received it.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah, and the the carrier, like you talk about the carrier of the balm.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

It's compassion. And compassion is the carrier, yeah, balm of that love.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Absorbs, exactly. But we're not absorbing because we're just it's we're receiving it, it's just repelling off of us because we're not actually allowing it to get inside for us to be able to receive it. We're still trying to do which resists it.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Well, I so much look at the compassion method. I love, you know, being in agriculture growing up on a farm. I so love Jesus's parables. So many of them are relating back to that. But I so look at this as the parable of the sower, and what we're doing with the compassion method is preparing our heart to receive it. Exactly. Rather imperfectly, because I've been at this a while and I still got, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

But if you think about it, you know, a glass, you know, every time you've been able to receive, you receive that much more. So it doesn't mean we don't ever struggle or we don't ever still feel shame or still, you know, get angry or do whatever those mistakes are, but we're able to actually see it's not who we are. And that's the huge difference because majority of our lives it's been set, shame says that what we do is who we are. But now we can separate it from behavior and person.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Yeah, who I am in Christ versus who I am when my pain's running the show.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Exactly. Man's anger, man's pain.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Yeah. Yeah. And a couple other bullet points from my session when we talked about this. Um, and you are you've already said this, but you said when you are being at rest, peace, etc., all those all those gifts, the fruit of that is the self-control, the patience. When you can find that place of being, which is rest, peace. Those other things just happen.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

We don't have to try to do them. That's very freeing.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Very freeing. So then when we look at it, we can allow it just to grow, but we don't have to make it grow. We don't have to make ourselves grow either. It's a byproduct, it happens naturally.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Something I just thought about on that call, the one I referenced from a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

I I I believe I came off unkind. But I'm remembering the how am I seen exercise.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

And one of my uh former employees when he did it, like he was one of the people I sent it to, and the word he came back with was kind. So I'm like, I know it's there. That is part of who God created me to be. I know it's exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

And just because you didn't act kind doesn't mean that you're not kind.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah. There might be some people on that call that disagree, but but see, that's where, you know, uh, that's interesting because how much I let my identity be connected to what other people think.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Versus what I think or what God thinks. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

What do we believe to be true?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Yeah, and it's so much easier for me to believe these unkind, these people that think I'm unkind than my friend, the former employee that said I was kind. You know, it's so much easier to believe the other ones.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Who's making the mistake here?

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Well, nobody's making a mistake because I was acting unkind.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Yeah. Yeah. So the other thing I had uh bullet point around the fruits of the spirit that you said, uh yeah, we can't do kindness, patience, etc. You can't do it, you have to be it.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

So and also one thing to add to that, in order to be it, you have to receive it. So that's going back to your early childhood development and recognizing that our inability to receive it goes back to how we received it or didn't receive it when we were young.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah. Well, and and connecting it back to, yeah. Yeah, for me, the gift of enough. For me particularly. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

And we needed to receive that when you were little so that you can, your website now doesn't have to try so hard. That we I often reference like our adult brain is a website, and our child brain is that coding. And your coding is programmed to do to be enough. So even if you as an adult tries to go, okay, I listen, you know, I'm paying attention to what we talked about today on the podcast, and I'm going to focus more on being and allowing that fruit to grow. If you don't change your coding, your early childhood development, and how you perceive yourself there, it's not going to change how you perceive yourself now. Often people make that mistake when they're trying to grow and heal and do better, that they're just trying to help their adult self be okay. We have to always reconnect it with our child self because that's where the glitch first begun. And that's where we're still glitching.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Hmm. Yeah, that's good. Well, the the next one I think uh I wanted to bring up before we conclude today, because there's a few more, so this will be a two-parter of of different ways that the compassion method can help you actually live what scripture says, but is in the area of selfishness. And uh Matthew 18, 24 says, if anyone could come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Talk about another one that would really that's really tough to do verses to be. Unbelievably selfish we can be when we are stuck in our pain. All we see is ourselves. All we see is the offense. All we see is how it's impacting me. It's like me, me, me, me, me, me, me. So people look at what you're teaching them to do sometimes. A criticism is, well, that's selfish. You should focus on God and others, not yourself. And it's like, oh no, folks, this is the least selfish thing you could ever do for the world around you because when your pain is running the show, you are a that's true selfishness. You know, when you're selfishness, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

When you're well loved and you're taking care of your heart and you're getting what you need and you're getting the compassion and the comfort that you need, you can lay down your life. You can pick up your cross, you can follow him because you're so full of love, that's the byproduct. But when we're not full, what ends up happening is we're selfishly choosing things that are needy. We're needy, exactly. And we're trying to get our needs met, often in unhealthy ways, because we're so deficient. But the more we're well fed and well taken care of, the easier it is to follow Jesus. Because people think if um true selflessness is to be nothing, you know, like I empty myself out completely so that it's all Jesus, all God. But it's actually not honoring God to not be who we are created to be and to live from the fruits of the Spirit, that's not honoring God.

unknown 44:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

It is is actually honoring God when we're full and living from our true identity.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Yeah. Yeah, no, that that one I that one I saw pretty quickly on, you know, just uh in myself and others. You know, even when I was trying to talk to family members or something, if there was a there was a pain point that they're dealing with, I'm like, man, like all you can see is yourself right now.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

You can't see exactly you can't see that what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

You can see the other person. You can't see how hurtful it is. You can't see you just can't see anything.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Yeah, because you're in survival.

unknown 44:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Because you're so empty and in so much pain.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah. And that went from being a judgment. Because I found I could be judgmental.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

To uh uh you know, empathy, compassion, understanding. Like, yeah, I've been there. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

All of a sudden we're loving our enemy. Had that happen.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Right, right. Yeah. No, that's a that's a really good one. And um I think um and I think it's one probably a lot of people that are wired to help others has to wrestle through.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

That, hey, I gotta stop and take care of me before I can take care of others.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

And you've talked about this a lot. Like a lot of people that are or you've ran across this before, like people that are in ministries or occupations that help others.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

And that that's kind of a compensation for Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

We're often trying to help others because we don't have it for ourselves. And so we end up trying to heal our own wounds by healing other people's wounds. But the unfortunate part about that is we're so busy getting that feeling of helping others and helping others heal that we mistake it for our own healing. But we actually have to apply it to ourselves. We can't just be able to give it to others to have it for ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I think uh I have some homework for folks. Yes, I think homework's a great idea. There's some homework. So as you're as you're spending time in the Word or as you're spending time contemplating some of the areas of your Christian walk where they've been the most difficult, kind of approach it with curiosity and with this compassion method framework and see what's going on. Because there's more to the story as to why that's hard to forgive a certain person or why anger, you know, shows up in these places where you don't want it to. Um the selfishness one is really sneaky because if people recognize that they were selfish, like anger jumps right out and slaps you upside the head.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Like we talked about it's big and loud and all those other things, and you're like, oh, okay, I know that's wrong. Selfishness kind of like it sneaks right up. Like you could be in the spirit of offense and it's causing you to be very self-centered and you don't even know it.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

You know, but uh but spend some time thinking about those and and work the process.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Mm-hmm. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Do you have any other insights, Laura, that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_00 47:38

No, I think that's a great homework assignment, just being able to recognize the areas that we feel like we're stuck in, that we're not able to do more in, and be able to recognize what wound or need is behind that.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Mm-hmm. All right. And in the next episode, we're gonna pick continue with this topic and pick up um around prayer. We're gonna talk about prayer.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

And all the all the important things that sometimes turn into the list of rules as well.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Yeah, right, right. And kind of I had a pretty big revelation about why I struggle in that area, and this has been this has been helpful. The compassion method has been very helpful. I'll share that. And then um I want to talk some also about the uh the parable of the talents and uh connect that to the compassion method. And uh there's a couple others that we'll leave as a surprise that are still being they're still being formulated.

unknown 48:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Sounds good. Yeah. Well, thank you, Laura.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Yeah, it's always always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Yes, absolutely. Thank you everyone for listening until next time.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Bye, everyone.