Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
Wine News: Is the industry at a turning point? The WHO make drastic alcohol proposals, Meghan Markle's new wine, Gen Z are back and drinking wine!
The Australian wine industry faces pivotal changes with new transparency regulations while debating the broader issues of health labeling and market fairness. We explore the Emerson Report's game-changing recommendations that could revolutionize how wine is sold and marketed across Australia.
• Trying the viral jalapeno wine trend – is adding spice to rosé worth the hype?
• Tributes to industry pioneers including Dr. Richard Smart, Simon Killeen, and Angela Muir MW
• Celebrity wines and Meghan Markle's entry into the rosé market
• The Emerson Report's key recommendations for the Australian wine industry
• Mandatory labeling for retailer "own brand" wines within two years
• New mandatory code of conduct for grape payments to protect growers
• Gen Z finally entering the wine market as predicted
• WHO's push for cancer warning labels on wine bottles
• Debating responsible drinking promotion versus excessive regulation
Join us next week as we taste and compare Sauvignon Blancs from around the world!
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel. We are here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Mel Gill-Curistro and I'm the Master of Wine, Meg Brotman. Meg, we've got another wine news today and we've got a little bit in it.
Speaker 2:Today. There's quite a bit of news that's been going on, some big news, I think, from one of the reports. There's one thing in particular.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Whether or not anything ever happens over it, I don't know We'll see We've been going on about this for years.
Speaker 1:Now, before we get into anything, I am going to start with. I don't know if it's a fun fact or if it's kind of newsy, but, um, there is something that has been over the internet for years now. It was like three years ago, I remember when I was pregnant we were doing this. There was this jalapeno wine was everywhere and, um, I was going to make you try it, and then I think we never ended up doing it. And then recently it's come up again, because I keep getting messages from people being like do the jalapeno wine? So come up again. Because I keep getting messages from people being like do the open your wine? So, okay, we're finally doing it. I was going to make you do it without knowing what it was, but, um, you picked it straight away.
Speaker 2:You haven't tried it yet You'd never come out with a glass of Rose for any other reason. Yeah, well, that's true.
Speaker 1:I can't think of any other reason I would make you try Rose. So, meg, master of wine, you are about to try rosé that has been had. It's had macerating in it for the last hour three pieces of jalapeno.
Speaker 2:Right, so you cut the jalapeno up and you put it in the rosé and just leave it there and then take it out.
Speaker 1:Would it make you really sad if I said I didn't even use fresh ones, they're from a jar.
Speaker 2:Well then it's got vinegar in them and brine your dick. Oh, so I didn't do that right? No, so it's going to be salty. Okay, well, just try it. Well, I'll say it smells like the brine of the jalapeno jar. Yum, oh, I don't want to drink this?
Speaker 1:Okay, just have a sip princess.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can taste the jalapenos. It's sort of like almost like someone's put a brush of Sauvignon Blanc in your glass.
Speaker 1:I actually thought it was kind of delicious. I kind of vibed it. I didn't think I'd like it and I had a little sip on the way to bring it to you and I was like not bad, no, no, I mean A rosé.
Speaker 2:On the way to bring it to you and I was like not bad, uh, no, no, I, I mean a rose. Oh shit, I've remembered something. Um and b. It's okay, people, it's just that rosé drug my memory. Just ignore me. I'm becoming a doddery old fool, don't cut it out, thank god, this isn't life. Back to the jalapeno. Um yeah, why okay? And why are people doing it?
Speaker 1:um, because it's yummy. I've heard of people like, who aren't just doing it as a trend. People are are like oh, I don't actually drink wine any other way now. It's like a spicy mug, it's just like a spicy drink.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, it's a flavoured wine. It's like putting I don't know. It's like putting parsley or coriander in your wine.
Speaker 1:It just makes it kind of spicy. I think it's nice actually.
Speaker 2:It adds a touch of greenness to it, a freshness like a grassiness. Yeah, look, it's not bad, but I would not be bothered with people. If you do do it, please do it with fresh stuff. Pop the stuff out of the jar.
Speaker 1:Not as good as the reaction, as the time that I got you to do the diet cocaine. That was good, that was actually really good.
Speaker 2:That was good. It's like a Long Island iced tea from memory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. It was like it's pretty delicious. Yeah, it was kind of nice. I could use one um. So we, um, we have a few things to cover off. Today. We've got some sad news from the industry. Uh, we are going to talk about megan mega markel's rose, which is arguably also sad news in the industry um, just to follow all the others?
Speaker 2:yeah, we have, except for Dolly Parton.
Speaker 1:Oh no, we don't say that about Dolly Parton in front of Meg. A report has come out which has made some very interesting recommendations for the industry that looks like it might actually make some change. And what was the last thing we're going to talk about? Oh, I'm going to eat my words on a topic that I've been fighting you on. So firstly, meg, why don't you kick us off?
Speaker 2:We've got some sad news. Yeah, so this last two weeks it seems that great stalwarts of the industry have died. So the first news I heard was Richard Smart. Dr Richard Smart, who was a pioneer in viticulture and he wrote a book which was huge globally, called Sunlight Into Wine. It was about canopy management. We'd never really managed canopies prior to that. There was a viticultural system called Smart Dyson, named after him, which was all about getting exposure. He did a lot of work in New Zealand because they were moving into these cooler climates with lots of vigour. Yeah, an amazing, amazing man. I met him a few times. He was a lecturer at Roseworthy when I was there and he apparently I'm not sure. I think he may have had cancer, but don't quote me but he was still working in vineyards until the February of this year when he died
Speaker 2:and then on top of that we hear that Simon Killeen of Stantonanton and colleen, the fortified wine producers in um, that brother glenn also passed away. He was an amazing man, you know, supporting brother glenn in his region. But fortified wines across australia, which is a tiny category and you know one that, as jen pfeiffer says, the custodians of the, the land and of the style, they, they probably don't make any money out of it but they do it because it's part of Australia's winemaking history and uniquely ours, you know, with the topaques and the muskets. So he passed away. And then two yesterday, two days ago, I heard that my old boss, angela Muir, mw, who did her MW in 1977. I think she did it with Jancis Robinson she passed away. So she was 76. She started off with St James. What was it? St James? Someplace in Bristol.
Speaker 3:Harvey's Bristol Cream.
Speaker 2:Yep, and she was a buyer. And then she opened up what, if you speak to anyone in the wine trade in the UK the Fulham Wine Centre, which actually went broke and she made the decision that when they went bankrupt that she would pay back every producer that she bought wine off. And it took them 12 years to do it and I was working for her. When they did it she honourably said she didn't have to. She didn't have to.
Speaker 3:No, she was a tough old lady.
Speaker 2:She was a big and precious the worst driver I've ever seen in my entire life, Wow but I really enjoyed working with her. She was a great cook and she'd always cook for like 5,000 people and there'd be the two of us, but she always finished the day with a Lefbrun beer, which is a brown beer from Alsace. I think, yeah, yeah. So that was all a bit sad. That is a bit sad. You know the sort of people who were the. You know, as the industry started to change in the 70s and 80s, they're all starting to age out now, which is a little bit sad, but you know, happens Happens.
Speaker 2:Circle of life yeah, so enjoy it, while you can Drink lots of good wine.
Speaker 1:That's it All right. So a few big names going down, that's not very nice. Maybe let's change track into something a little bit more fun. Meghan Markle why Is she fun?
Speaker 2:Well, no, it's fun because I assume we're going to have a couple of jabs.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I'm just sick of these celebrities throwing their names. Oh, and you know what I heard? I heard that she actually really cares and she goes home and she shares the wine with everyone and, uh, she takes notes and she goes back and shares them with the winemaker and it's like I don't know. Yeah, maybe, maybe people do want a wine that's been influenced by Meghan Markle and her really rich friends, but it's like do people just not want wines developed by actual specialist winemakers anymore?
Speaker 2:my question is why is it always rose? Because they're all basic bitches yeah, it must be, because you know pink I've spoken about, she actually works in the vineyard. She studied winemaking she studied it, that's different, and so she actually makes the wine. But everyone's just, it's just a branding exercise. It's like Pierre Cardin in the 70s slapped his label on everything you know, from ties to pins to briefcases, and devalued the brand. I mean, what's Megan's other thing? Jam, wasn't it jam that she never actually produced?
Speaker 2:Yes, Well then she did, and then she only made things. The jam was a whole thing. Then she had to undo the business because she realized she couldn't scale it up. She couldn't stand at home and make each pot of jam.
Speaker 1:She couldn't use the name. She chose a name, told everyone the name and then realized the name was copyrighted Montabella or something, I don't remember, but it's been a whole thing, if I just. I think. Maybe it frustrates me in the wine industry when celebrity who are so well off already come in and put their name on something and just kind of take sales away from other winemakers because they put their name on you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Well, yes and no. I mean potentially, that rosé wouldn't have been sold if it didn't have her name on it, so it could be helping the industry. I mean, it's like a licensing agreement, I guess.
Speaker 1:But do you think people are drinking choosing? Do you think people who would have drank Rosé anyway are they choosing her wine now over something else? Or is someone who wouldn't have had a drink that night gone and picked up Rosé? I just don't think that that's the case. I'm not sure it's expanding the industry.
Speaker 2:My guess is that she will be taking rosé drinkers away because, seriously, the people that will be buying a celebrity wine are aspirational yes, so that's all they're interested in. It just has to be seen. I also like have you seen the packaging? I haven't seen the packaging or anything.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it looks like. I also want to say that I will defend Meghan Markle pretty hard, like I think she's been so unfanly treated by the media, but it's just like she's stumbled into wine now, like arguably.
Speaker 2:Sorry, have you watched her show? No, no, it isn't it makes you vomit. It's so twee and it puts so much pressure on working women. You know, yeah, she can do all of this stuff because she's got like 15 bloody nannies behind her and stuff.
Speaker 1:She hasn't done anything that bad. And then our mate, brad pitt who not our mate, brad pitt, who literally assaulted his wife and children is out there starring in movies and he's just done a new one and everyone still loves him and everyone's just kind of sweeping that under the rug. Megan Michael, what's the worst thing she did? Being a little bit insufferable? Well, she is insufferable. And everyone hates her so much more.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know much about the whole. I know the royal family don't really like her or something, and there was something about Archie being coloured, or Okay, we are getting. I don't really read into the music.
Speaker 1:We're starting to like too far into it.
Speaker 2:I know that she has been vilified for unjustifiable reasons, but I think she can be vilified for her TV show, because it is just nauseous, nauseous making and the rosé I mean. Who else?
Speaker 1:Everyone does it. It is just annoying. Everyone has a rosé. And to be fair, we have picked on everyone who has done a rosé, except for Pink, so she's a good company. She's up there with Gwyneth. Has Gwyneth got?
Speaker 2:one as well? Yeah, has she. I thought she had a candle that smelled like her vagina.
Speaker 1:We roasted Gwyneth Meg. Don't you remember how she goes? We're girls, we like rosé. And then she was like oh well, that was Cameron Diaz. Oh no, sorry, that was Cameron Diaz.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we roasted them. Yeah, we roasted them, because that was just a big lie. Sorry, I got that. Oh, okay, so that's at least good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is good. Okay, Well, that's not about Meghan Markle.
Speaker 2:Good on you, Meghan.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's move on to probably.
Speaker 2:I bet the winemaker appreciates you taking notes and giving him feedback. I bet he's like all over it.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine receiving her silly little notes? Oh my gosh. Even I, like, have been studying wine, have been working in wine for like a decade or something. When I do a tasting, I kind of the winemakers will ask me like oh, what do you think? And I even feel a bit weird being like oh, this, but you know better.
Speaker 2:Like Meghan Markle comes in with her notes, like yeah, yeah, but you should give the people at work feedback, because often you get a cellar palette, you just see well, that's true, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just a bit harder with sparkling, because tasting base wines is an entirely different. I actually have no idea. It was a lot easier when it works with still winery and like Adrian would put together a red blonde and that was great. I gave feedback, but in sparkling and I'm like, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:No, because you've got to be some sort of magic magician that you know what it's going to be like in 15 months time. Yeah, I know it's nuts.
Speaker 1:All right, probably our most news, newsy thing this today is this Emerson report that has come out. Meg, do you want to talk us through what this report was about, who did it and what were the key findings?
Speaker 2:So it was Dr Craig Emerson. He was a member of parliament, I think the Labor Party, and he was asked by the government with Wine Australia, to put together a report on the state of the wine industry and what was doing it harm and what was doing it good and what were some recommendations.
Speaker 2:Put together a report on the state of the wine industry, yeah, and what was doing it harm and what was doing it good and what were some recommendations. So he came up with I think 14 recommendations. I can't remember them all, yeah, but the very first one that he listed was that the big companies such as Endeavor, iga and Coles, if they have an own label wine, that within two years that they state plainly on the package that this is our own label wine, which I think is great Endeavor's come back and said of course we will take on board those and we look forward to working with them.
Speaker 1:Okay, have you looked at the wording of what Endeavor said?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was pretty nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I've been looking at the wording going like okay, here we go. Transition over the next two years to publishing on back labels of their wines the ultimate owner of the winery and the owner's address. Yes, well, that's not saying this is private wine, that's saying it's almost downselling, like who?
Speaker 2:It'll say it's Endeavor, not Pinnacle the ultimate owner, because currently they've got Pinnacle on the back.
Speaker 1:The owner of the winery or the owner of the wine?
Speaker 2:Well, whoever made the wine?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, owner of the winery. Yeah Right, okay, so I was thinking that they'd put it on the who made the wine, like the actual winery.
Speaker 2:Oh, if they're buying it in bulk, they'd put Rob.
Speaker 1:Dolan wines on the back.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Yeah, but don't forget, they're buying, they're producing a lot. They've got Dorian Estate in Barossa which I think does 10,000 tonne or something ridiculous. Oh, do they. Yeah, and I'm sure there's some own label stuff coming out of Oak Ridge as well. I'm sure there's some own label stuff coming out of Oak Ridge as well. I think it's great. I hope they do adopt it and I hope it's very, very evident. Yeah, the other thing that the report mentioned was the wet tax. So wet is paid on the last sale. It's called the wine equalization tax.
Speaker 2:It's paid on the last sale before the consumer. So if I make the wine and I sell it to my distributor, who's also known as a wholesaler, we pay the the wet's paid, but we can get a rebate on the wet. Yep, you can rebate. It was up to about $300,000. It's now $450,000. So basically it's just a tax break for nearly half a million dollars a year for most wineries. But the other thing is a lot of distributors and wine buyers know that, so they factor it into the pricing that they offer you. So if Dan's is buying for you, they go oh, it's the wet rebate, so it's 29%. Yeah, so it's 30% of the bottle of wine. So they're saying that for the large producers like Coles and Endeavor, that's for each of the wineries that they've got, they're getting a half a million dollar tax break. So it's not fair because they're getting the wet rebate on each of those wineries for those wines that they produce, because you have to own the grapes to do it.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's called vertical integration of the industry. So it means that they do everything from vineyard right up to selling. The other recommendation was that all of the data that Coles and Endeavour get about wine sales has to be given for free to smaller producers. Now they haven't defined smaller producers, but I think he made some remark about anything under 1,000 tonne and then anything over 1,000 tonne would pay a fee to access that data, so that they were on a level playing field in terms of knowing what was going on out there in terms of purchasing.
Speaker 2:Because, you imagine? Endeavor's there Oakridge is there. Endeavor's got all this sales data about what's coming out of their retail stores. And they ring up Endeavor and go oh no, look, what's really selling now is a buttery Chardonnay. No one's onto it yet, we won't tell anyone. We'll get you to produce it of buttery Chardonnay. No one's onto it yet, we won't tell anyone.
Speaker 1:We'll get you to produce it, yeah, and then they flood their stores with it, okay. So this is interesting because it's no secret that we have a duopoly in Australia. The majority of the wine sold here is actually from one place. It's from Endeavor 60%. So most of it is from Dance, but a lot of it is also Coles Group which is um first choice, and village sellers village vintage, vintage sellers is being rebranded as liquor land now and liquor land and well, that was their third, but so they're consolidating.
Speaker 1:So I guess when he sat down and looked at this he would have had to go okay, do we look at measures that break up the big guys and give more space for retailers, or do we just take down their private label and accept that we have a duopoly, but at least make it a better playing field within that duopoly? And it sounds like he's gone for the second approach there. Yeah, yeah, so he doesn't see a problem with the duopoly as long as we're playing fair within it.
Speaker 2:I think he's realistic and realises that there's no way we're going to break it up now. Yeah, adrian Santolin made an interesting remark to me yesterday when we were talking about this. He said that if Endeavour had bought Kate Mantell, oakridge, chapel Hill, joseph Cromey, all in one hit, the ACCC would have said no, yeah, because it was a competition, but because they've been quite clever and they bought Dorian, which they got from Cellar Masters, then they bought Oak Ridge, yeah, so they've been quite strategic in their purchasing. So it hasn't raised any real red flags with the ACCC. It should never have been allowed to happen. It's like the coals and woolies owning the um coffee being, what are they? What are they growing in fields, paddocks, yeah, yeah, coffee bean estates and then making all the coffee, yeah, that they, you know, stuck on their shelf. So, and wine, because it has so many brands, it's just easy.
Speaker 1:Like I've picked up two wines today, turn them around pinnacle, pinnacle and I'm just like yeah, and we like Dan's, we like their range, we think that they have good wine buying.
Speaker 2:They've been really adventurous, I think, in introducing the Australian consumer into a range of wines and some of that. They would have taken a hit on some of those wines. They wouldn't have been profitable.
Speaker 1:But the thing that we are on board with always the major thing is the fact that there's private label wines. All I want them to say is private label somewhere. It's like if you're in the supermarket and you are sitting there and you go, I can buy these canned peaches from SPC because I know that they're up the road and they employ heaps of people, or I can buy these ones that are Kohl's brand and it's a dollar less. You have the choice. You're empowered to make the choice and I don't care which one you choose, but I like that you can make the choice. And if you were doing it hard and you have to go a bit cheaper, then that's fine, that's up to you. But I just think that people who want to support winemakers like legitimate wine industry. They should have the choice, and it sounds like we are going in that direction now, which is a really good thing.
Speaker 2:This is what I'm kind of tempted you remember we talked about that little logo that drew noon came up with. I think it was like a little raised fist about independent, family-owned wineries. Yeah, I mean maybe we should get that campaign going, true, true, so that people can see it and go, oh, this is a family-owned winery, so play them at their their own game. Basically.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah Well, I mean there's all kinds of things family-owned versus, yeah, yeah, there's a whole thing there. But I also think that so many people just go in and want a cheap rosé anyway that it's not going to necessarily move the needle that much. I just think it's ethical to be transparent.
Speaker 2:No, didn't you see their report where the guy said 15 of our customers choose to buy a pinnacle wine? No yeah, probably dan murphy's. They don't choose because they don't know.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, exactly that's what I meant. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say to you. I was like what? Yeah, no, they don't know, they're choosing pinnacle wine. They just know that they've tried this cat and a pigeon thing and it was nice once, so now they buy it again.
Speaker 2:And all the labels are very on trend. They know what you know hits for the market. It's very clever, but you're right, they need to know Because even have you noticed like Coles brand, whatever have got, like Coles brand pasta and this sort of fancy? Yeah, entry level.
Speaker 1:Kohl's then there's like fancy Kohl's- brand and then, yeah, so I don't know, maybe it is infiltrating the supermarket as well. Bleak, but um, so there we go. So all so all of it looks like it's going to happen.
Speaker 2:Well, the other thing that came up was the mandatory code of conduct for grape payments. So it's been a voluntary code of conduct, yeah, and which is basically the way it works now is grape growers get paid in three installments. Their last installment's usually on the 13th of September, so the grapes are picked, say, in February. So the grape grower is effectively funding the winery. For that period of time they're giving them a bank loan.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. So there's been a voluntary code of conduct which means that the grape payments are made in a much shorter period. Yeah, and Emerson has suggested that that become compulsory for any great payments, that there can be no handshake great payment agreements. Yes, we know some people are used to do that that everything has to be written in a contract. It cannot be written in such legalese. It has to be in plain English so that the grower can understand, and that the pricing needs to be set in the September, prior to vintage, not when they're saying how many grapes are growing on and they're going oh, we're going to screw them down because we know they've got a bigger crop, or whatever.
Speaker 1:So that it's sort of what so are they trying to say no more handshake agreements and make a law.
Speaker 2:Everything has to be in writing about the conditions.
Speaker 1:Can they, but they can't, they can't actually follow through. Like they have no jurisdiction to. Like do they have any way to?
Speaker 2:actually no, because the grower would insist on it so the company doesn't say yeah, the company doesn't say, oh look, we're good mate, well, you look, we're good mate, well, you know, we're good for it. The grower has the right to turn around and say, no, I want it in writing and also the specifications in terms of quality, so that the wine doesn't turn up and say, oh, actually, that's sort of C grade now, yeah, and so we're going to downgrade our payment. So there's a lot of really good stuff, basic, basic, basic stuff in there.
Speaker 1:That. I hope they don't. That is no, that's really good, that's really. You're right, that's. That's a really it's ridiculous that we've been going this long and that's been allowed to happen.
Speaker 2:Actually, well imagine if you were customers of Dan Murphy's or Coles and you walked in and said I'm just going to take this wine away. I'll give you a third now. Yes, I'll give you a third in three months time and I'll give you a third in another three months time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not actually going to get paid from my job for a month. Yeah, so I figure I can pay you then, yes, that's right, you can't do that, no, so wineries shouldn't be able to do it. And as much as we talk about, life is, yeah, really, really hard for wineries at the moment, it is even tougher. There is still a power imbalance with growers. Yeah, and so we need to write that. That's great, okay, um, thanks, meg. That was like a really good debrief it's worth it.
Speaker 2:If you want to read the whole thing, it's on the Wine Australia website yeah, okay, brilliant.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, what else we have to talk about? Oh, it's time for me to eat my words. I think it was.
Speaker 2:I saw this and I just went, I fucking told I think it was only I saw this and I just went, I fucking told you, I know.
Speaker 1:It was only a couple of episodes ago. Yes, that I said about how Gen Z aren't drinking wine and they'll never come across in the category. And you said, yeah, but no one starts drinking wine until they're in their 30s. This happens every generation. And I said, no, Meg, I've looked at the reports. Mind you, I had the reports did say no, you were right.
Speaker 1:I do my research. They did say that at the same age, the millennials had already started drinking wine by now, and it was like time's ticking, the Gen Zs still hadn't started, and so we were like, ah, I guess we've lost them. But yeah, no, uh, iwsr, which is, um, probably the most, it's the best, it's the best, it's the most around. We, we trust iwsr, um, in terms of the wine industry. And yeah, they've come out and they have just said no, don't worry, guys, we're on. Gen Z, finally, are making enough money and they are hooking into it.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:They're getting their claws into some Shiraz Yep.
Speaker 3:No they're not getting into Shiraz.
Speaker 1:No, they're not getting into it, that was a lie, but they are getting into what?
Speaker 2:Pinot Noir? But I still think that Gen Z will drink less. Yeah, that makes sense, yep, but they will definitely. I told you, they'll drink wine, but they'll drink less of it. They won't start with.
Speaker 1:Yes, now, actually we hadn't planned to talk about this, but it's clicked my mind and it's made me remember. Okay, here's an awkward one for us to talk about. Let's see how this one goes, but we have to. We can't ignore it. Well, meg's looking at me like sure, yeah, no, it's not fun. Um, World Health Organization, yeah, yeah, they've come out and, um, they've decided that they are. They are saying that there is no amount of alcohol that's safe to drink and therefore they want to put mandatory cancer labels. So, like there's the people with the funky teeth on cigarettes, they want to put that for cancer on wine bottles.
Speaker 2:What was his name on the cigarette pack? It's Dying Dennis. That's what the kids call him. Dying Dennis. Oh, I have heard that. Each of Dying Dennis, oh God.
Speaker 1:I have heard that each of them have names.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, Because there's a photo of this really handsome dude like. It looks like a photo from the 80s and then, literally Ten days later, they say, which I find is exaggeration but anyway, yeah, dying Dennis Isn't that awful Pardon.
Speaker 3:He sued them.
Speaker 2:He did, oh did they.
Speaker 1:No, they did not use a real image.
Speaker 3:They did use a real image, but he apparently passed away from. It. Wasn't cancer, no, it looks more like it was AIDS.
Speaker 2:I was going to say it looks more like hiv because there was the weight loss and and everything and it looks like he's got carposis sarcoma as well. So dying photoshop it guys I can't believe they've just taken a real person's photo and well ai this it was, it would have been a decade or two ago, but they didn't have ai then.
Speaker 1:but still, yeah, that's really there are so many ways they could have. Oh my God, it was Okay. The thing is like this is they're starting, they want a little cancer label, then they're going to want the picture, and then they're going to want us to get rid of advertising. And it's pretty scary Should I say scary, I don't know. It feels like maybe things are going in the same direction as cigarettes.
Speaker 2:Meg, what's your take on all this? There is all alcohols aren't the same. So spirits are different to beer, are different to wine. It's all methanol, ethanol. Methanol kills you, but the thing is the delivery system with wine has the other things that are in there has shown to have some health benefits that counteract the alcohol. But the thing is they were talking about it's 5,300 deaths in Australia that are alcohol-related. Yeah, I don't think it's that many 5,000 alcohol.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Does that include drink driving?
Speaker 2:No, it's an alcohol-related disease. Disease of alcohol use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and this is the interesting thing, is that cigarettes.
Speaker 2:There is no safe level.
Speaker 1:And there's no safe level. But the thing about alcohol, the current kind of risks around it that we as a society have decided nah, nah, is like if your mate tried to drink and drive, no one would ever let their mate do that. And like, say, even pregnancy warnings on bottles because they're harming other people. But the cancer thing is like this could harm you. And even cigarettes, like passive smoking and stuff. No one wanted to be around cigarettes, but it's like this thing that it's like at what point is, are you allowed to do things that you know what's next To harm yourself, you know? Well, the thing is Like can you put it on wine, but not on a chocolate bar.
Speaker 2:All of this processed food is causing far more deaths than alcohol is. Yeah, and in America, I was listening to this podcast amongst these two young cool Gen Zers who have stopped vaping but started smoking because they know the risks of smoking and they're prepared to take it, but they're not quite sure what the risks of vaping are Interesting.
Speaker 1:That is interesting.
Speaker 3:Yep, yeah, okay, you can rationale away anything, yeah, okay, I mean, I don't know, you can rationale away.
Speaker 2:Anything, yeah, you can, but yes, look, I think it's ridiculous. I think the pregnancy warning's enough. Don't drink and drive. We had a brilliant campaign around that, which we needed to do, I think, largely as a society.
Speaker 1:there's not much drink and driving going on. We've done a really good job of curbing that. There's not much drink driving going on. We've done a really good job of getting that and, to be honest, not in America as a society, we don't even like need the government to step in and tell us not to drink anymore because there's so much freaking wellness out there. Everyone's doing marathons and shit. No one really gets drunk anymore, do they Like? I feel like it's not Austin.
Speaker 2:But you don't deliberately go out and get, do you, do you? No, do you like preload Austin and go out there and get pissed? No, my kids do they do, I think.
Speaker 3:I probably still do. I think that still goes through my head to have like two glasses of wine before going to an event, because and then are you like, do you know that you're going to an event because?
Speaker 1:and then are you like, do you know that you're going to feel crap the next day? Is it like I'm going to go drink till I feel bad the next day? I?
Speaker 3:think what's happened in my now entering my late 20s yeah I can go. I'm allowed to drink on this night and I've written the next day off oh, wow, gives me permission, and that's what's changed.
Speaker 1:I think Maybe I mean, look, we don't endorse that.
Speaker 2:No, but we believe in your right to choose, to do it.
Speaker 1:Well, exactly, if you are not picking up car keys? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is an element of. Everyone should be probably educated and they should know the risks, but they should have their own right to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. It's like if you go climb Mount Everest.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, you know what people are going to start saying that alcohol fuels violence and stuff. And then we could get into a whole other thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, alcohol does. I don't think. I don't know what the domestic abuse statistics are, but I doubt very much. It's Grange or a fine Riesling or a fantastic Yarra Valley Chardonnay. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's booze and then there's booze.
Speaker 1:No, there is, there is, and then? So, just how do we? How do we? I think we can acknowledge that it is a murky territory. We don't think that, we just don't want to go all the way down the path of cigarettes. I think as a society we need to figure out how we can continue, not villainize alcohol, but let's just get to a place where we all feel like we can have a couple of drinks and do it safely.
Speaker 2:That's right. Let's just all have a couple of drinks and calm the fuck down. Like seriously yeah.
Speaker 1:I think the answer is not alcohol is the devil. The answer is let's all figure out how we can have a better relationship, because a couple of glasses with dinner is lovely and we don't want it to be.
Speaker 2:you know, and I think everyone out there who is in the wine industry or does drink wine and somehow you know like let's just keep maybe going in this direction of not endorsing dangerous behavior with alcohol dangerous behavior with alcohol and and also has having dying dennis on the cigarette packet decreased consumption of the packaging itself, or has you know, or has it been, all of the messaging outside of that, the television advertising and stuff?
Speaker 1:no, I think it all. It all works. But the difference is with alcohol, if you think about it, everyone who um has a cigarette looks at the packet. Most for the most part. You might get one off at a bar, but you know but the difference with alcohol is a huge percentage of what is consumed is actually at a bar, where you're not looking at the label. You just order a glass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what's wrong with that? Well, no, I'm saying because there's a wine list and it's like I'm just talking 100 sa on what the wine tastes like for the sommelier, the effectiveness of the label like ah yeah.
Speaker 3:So they're saying we're going to put on our labels but it almost isn't even apples with apples when you think about cigarettes just a really quick one, but I think there is a massive difference as well with cigarettes, because you look at the size of the companies behind them yeah, if we want australian made product to be purchased um, and then, all of a sudden, we can see a real drop in alcohol consumption yeah and some wineries wouldn't be able to and matt.
Speaker 2:Matt della wrote a brilliant article the other day that was on linkedin, just about um wine is is. It's about getting people together. It's about celebration and events and conviviality and things. Ziggy's the opposite of that, because you're going outside on your own and having a quick dart before you come back into the office, you know it's not about sharing.
Speaker 1:So what I would love to hear.
Speaker 2:Do you remember?
Speaker 1:that ad. Do you remember that ad? That was like trying to get people to lose weight and they were like don't stop it, swap it. And it was like a guy with a little cartoon guy and he had like three scoops of ice cream on his cone and they were like swap three scoops for one scoop. Or like swap a drive to the park for a walk to the park. That was about encouraging like a moderate, balanced lifestyle, instead of saying give up sugar. And I think that's the approach we need to take with alcohol and yes, and let's just Everything in moderation, yeah. And I just think that I would be really disappointed if I saw ads coming out on TV that were like alcohol, cancer, blah, blah, blah. It's like I would just like a balanced lifestyle to be what is promoted.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and we do promote responsible drinking within the alcohol industry.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, do we ever? I just did a frigging three hour course. I have, like you, have no idea. So but yeah, and within the industry and the course that I just did through Moet Hennessy was saying there is so much pressure on the industry, it is our responsibility to do better than everything that's out there, to do better than all the laws and current guidelines, because if we do better, then they can't try and push us in a direction we don't want to go. We need to get ahead of everything and model the most responsible drinking so that we don't end up somewhere bad Fair, yeah, okay, one last thing, meg. How do you, what do you think about this headline? Oh, where is it? Here we go, oh, mate. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has come out describing, and I quote, barossa Valley wine as the best in the world.
Speaker 2:Good on him.
Speaker 1:Is it just because you're like left-leaning and will never?
Speaker 2:No no, no, no, no. You're like left-leaning and will never. No, no, no, no, no. I just. I think our prime minister should be promoting our country's wine production. Yeah, I just think that you know Barossa gets a lot of kudos all the time, yeah, and Don Farrell, our ag minister, has a vineyard in the Clare. So we hear about the Clare all of the time. So maybe you could come out and say Orange has the best wines, yeah, or you know somewhere smaller but anyway, I mean.
Speaker 1:It had to do with their China relations and I just thought it was funny. I was like, oh, bold move, every single region's going to be like, hey, yeah, exactly, bold move, every single region's going to be like hey, yeah, exactly, Big move, but for China probably the right.
Speaker 2:Well, not so much now, but yeah.
Speaker 1:It's still going to be the biggest in China, isn't it? It's really shifting.
Speaker 2:Oh really, China's really changed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, well, look, that's it for us for Y News this week, as always. If you ever see something that comes up in the news that you want our opinion on, want us to chat about, make sure you send us through. Next week we are doing Different Sauvignon Blancs from around the world Savvy B, all right. So we'll be back next week with some Savvy B and until next time, enjoy your next glass of wine and drink well.
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