Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
Wine Revelations: We geek out on the Endevour Report
Meg and Mel dive into the groundbreaking Endeavor wine industry report that reveals surprising insights about Australian wine consumption patterns across demographics and regions.
• Affluence drives wine purchase more than age, with wealthy consumers favouring Champagne, Chardonnay, and surprisingly, Riesling
• Gen Z unexpectedly over-indexes on Champagne consumption despite limited budgets
• Tasmania and Western Australia show the strongest loyalty to their local wine regions
• The Yarra Valley is experiencing growth while Tasmania faces market challenges despite producing top-rated sparkling wines
• Victoria drives wine trends like Pinot Noir and spritz culture that spread across Australia
• Queensland shows unique preferences for New Zealand wines and sweeter styles
• Prosecco dominates the sparkling category nationwide, particularly from King Valley
• Millennials are just now coming into red wine and Champagne as their palates mature and incomes increase
• Each Australian state displays distinct wine personality profiles that reveal cultural differences
Find the complete "State of Grapes" report online for more insights into Australia's wine consumption patterns.
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel. We're here helping out with the World of Wine. I'm Mel Ducre, streamer, master of wine, meg Brotman. Meg, I feel like in this Wine News, we are going to skip what you've been drinking. We're going to skip the fun fact and get right into it, because there is so much to talk about. Give what you've been drinking. We're going to skip the fun fact and get right into it, because there is so much to talk about.
Speaker 2:There's been a super report that's come out from Endeavor, I don't know. A few weeks ago we mentioned that part of the sort of reform about Australian wine industry was the big retailers share information and I have to say I am giving a massive applause to Endeavor for coming out with what is one of the most interesting reports. Boy, did they deliver? Have you ever put it together? Delivered and it's available to anyone. It is, and this is data that they don't have to share.
Speaker 1:And there's some stuff in there that you go oh yeah, I was expecting that, but there are some things that wine businesses are looking at and going jeez, we did not know this. This is different. It's amazing. Look when to start. Where to start? One of the most interesting things I think for our listeners might be because we have listeners all around Australia might be how their state showed up, like what are the typical things of their state.
Speaker 2:I disagree. No, really I think that affluence drives wine purchase.
Speaker 1:That was crazy. Let's start there. Go on, Meg.
Speaker 2:So clearly we know that boomers and, to a degree lesser degree, gen X are more involved with the wine category. Yeah, I think that's partly to do with money, but also to do with the fact that we only had beer or wine or bourbon and Coke. So there's a lot more wine options now. And, as Mel alluded to the other week, gin millennials are starting because they are starting to become a little bit more affluent. But what I found so and when we say affluent we mean they have money, they have money. So my favourite was the top 20 segment, affluence index, nice. So they buy champagne non-v-vintage. Interestingly, no one gives a shit about vintage oh yeah, do you know why?
Speaker 1:because it because of um like advertising, like verve, yeah, and um, like verve, does a great job of being on yachts and and being sure people know the label it's it's it is a sign of I'm successful. I work in finance in Sydney, like that is.
Speaker 2:Well, if they broke it down to North Shore like North Shore, sydney side is basically by Champagne, and then I think it was Chardonnay, but then Pinot Noir came in as the next one. Grenache surprised the shit out of me as the third. Yeah, that's crazy. But out of me as the third yeah, but then that's crazy, it was Riesling. So we said last week that doctors are into wine. Yeah, are they driving that?
Speaker 1:Because only wine lovers, only people who know wine drink Riesling. Only people who really get wine drink Riesling. Only people who really get wine drink it. Because Riesling, as we spoke about, is not necessarily expensive. You can get good Riesling for 20 bucks. It's great value. So the fact that it should go to when you're in a BWS yeah, affluent people, rich people drinking Riesling, yep, that's their first white grape variety, apart from champagne. That's pointing to wine education. That is pointing to people who understand wine, rather than just people who have money.
Speaker 2:So that's the thing that I that was my sort of takeaway that hey, cask wine obviously didn't do very well. Then we've got the sub-generation, the sub-category generation index. So with the Gen Z, rosé wine, boom yeah. Then they had sparkling wine and then champagne. Okay, so Gen X, no money. Hey, those fuckers are pouring the champagne. Okay, so Gen X, no money. How those fuckers afforded the champagne? Clearly, marketing Younger millennials Wait, it says Gen Z are drinking champagne, significantly above average. Rosé wine, sparkling wine, champagne Maybe that makes zero sense, right? And then younger millennials are rosé wine and champagne. Look at champagne. Across all of these categories, older millennials, where are you? You're a younger millennial, I'm a young millennial, okay, older millennials rosé and champagne.
Speaker 1:Can I just? I know that anyone that listens to our podcast knows this, but just in case they don't know, I want to be really clear. When we say champagne, we mean from the Champagne region in France. Otherwise we would say sparkling wine, yeah, and in Australia Prosecco falls within sparkling wine and champagne is a separate category.
Speaker 2:So GNC above, significantly above average drinking champagne.
Speaker 1:And champagne is minimum, absolute minimum, 50, probably 60 bucks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's sort of Aldi champagne, but are they? Is it brand that they're buying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they're buying my wet, come on.
Speaker 2:So this is what I found interesting, and it buys into all of what we're saying about lighter styles that when you go to red wine, fortified wines, so giving above average is the traditionalist. So that's my mother's age like free war babies. Non-alcoholic wine significantly above average for the boomers, yeah, and cask wine, boomers. No one else is drinking cask wine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as a category. Yeah, which is interesting because I was drinking cask wine in uni.
Speaker 2:Well, I would like to see how those Bagnums do, because there's now a fully recyclable packaging. So I was more interested in the demographic consumption. You were interested in what they were drinking and I was pleased to see that Yarra Valley was in growth. That was the biggest thing in growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Tassie is in deep trouble.
Speaker 1:What? Okay, see, here's. What's interesting is that we both read this report with different mindsets. I work for Chandon and so sparkling wine was top of mind when I read this report and I was looking through it and you go for the most part, even though some kind of subgroups are doing well with champagne, for the most part champagne isn't doing well. Champagne is dropping. You know it is doing well. There are not many categories in wine that is doing well and one of them is sparkling wine. And you read it and you go that's a good news story. Love that. This is great. I work in sparkling wine, life is good. But then you go to the next page and they go all right, we're going to take all the categories you just looked at and we're going to break it down even more.
Speaker 2:It's an amazing, amazingly detailed study.
Speaker 1:We should probably figure out exactly where it's posted publicly so that people can read it.
Speaker 1:I think, if you just Google it, you can get it. What's it called? It's called the State of Grap of grapes, a special edition of distilled. So google that. So when you break it down originally I was like because I I read this and part of my role in my business is to share like insights. So I'm thinking in my head how is this? I get to email my company saying sparkling wine is going well and this report proves it. And then it broke it down further. And what is driving that? Meg?
Speaker 2:Prosecco, except in the northern Sydney suburbs. Okay, that is their first choice of wine, and then it's Chardonnay.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, meg, do you have this thing memorized? How the hell do you know it? Do you have details?
Speaker 2:As you said, I come from a different perspective than you as the chair of the Yarra Valley Wine Growers Association. Shardnay's obviously on my radar, so the one that really struck me was top-growing and declining share-specified wine regions Yarra Valley in growth. Margaret River growth. King Valley driven by Prosecco, limestone Coast and Eden Valley. Kunawara in decline. Barossa Valley in decline. Tasmania has just planted 2,000 hectares of pine Tasmania is in decline. Then McLarenvale and then River Raina.
Speaker 1:So the interesting thing for me with Tasmania, we could spend days on this thing.
Speaker 1:We could talk for so long. I actually had all these topic plans for Wine News and then Meg was like I think we could just talk about the report. And yeah, clearly you were right. Tasmania is dominating sparkling and, as I say, I come at this from a very sparkling standpoint. But the sparkling wine, okay, even if you look at holiday wine results came out right One third. So the list of the top sparkling wines as granted by the air tasters, top sparkling wines in the whole country one third came from Tasmania. Do you know the second region on the list? What was it King? It was Yara. Eight percent.
Speaker 2:So from we go from like 35% on something that's sparkling, not traditional method. Wow, this is all.
Speaker 1:Because I always thought Prosecco would have trumped no. So this is I'm talking Halliday at the moment. So this is what Halliday deems the top sparkling wines in Australia yes, for the most part, their traditional method. There are some Prosecco Prosecco topped out at 95 points. Everything between 95 and 100 points was traditional method. However, our top critics in the country, they all say Tasmania wins. If you group Victoria as a whole country, state, region, then yeah, we're equal to tasmania, but no one does so. Tassie is killing it. And sparkling wine and we have spoken before how I, as a marketer, I'm pretty passionate about um, don't never say we do everything. We are known for diversity. It's not good the thing hero variety that that hero varieties Hero.
Speaker 2:I heard that song Across anything. All the years I've heard that have a hero.
Speaker 1:Hero makes you known it works. Tassie has gone where the sparkling region and shit make, it's working.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right Back to the report. What else have you got? Okay, all right back to the report. What else have you got?
Speaker 1:But in the biggest consumers of Sauvignon Blanc, which accounts? Wait, the biggest consumers of Sauvignon Blanc, did you say. Can I guess State Western Australia? No, queensland.
Speaker 2:No. South Australia and Tasmania, no, no, I know that really surprised me. Biggest consumers of Pinot Noir and red and Pinot Noir blends is Tassie.
Speaker 1:I thought that was Victoria.
Speaker 2:No, Victoria under delivers. We're just like meh on everything.
Speaker 1:On everything, but when you look at Victoria as a state and maybe that's a good segue to get into states, because Can I just show you this is South Australia Consumption of wine by state.
Speaker 2:Every state drinks more South Australian wine. Oh, that's what they're consuming, except for Tasmania. So they have a little Tassie P. Yeah, they have a little Tasmanian paint, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when we look at states, the two states that are the most loyal to their local regions are Tasmania and Western Australia. They do an amazing job at supporting their local regions and that is something that, even though we work for a particular region, we are, I would say, passionate about support your local region. Everyone should do that, no matter where you live in Australia, tas, tasmania and western australia. Tick, you're doing a good job. Melbourne is so global victoria. Melbourne it it's so sees itself as so global and cultural. Victoria is actually driving trends. So the one we are. Yeah, it was such good data. One of the biggest trends that we see in wine is that Pinot Noir has taken over Cab. Sav Meg can have a cry about that later.
Speaker 2:Well from the Yara, either, or not too fast. True.
Speaker 1:But that's a key trend and that is a trend that is happening all over Australia, but Victoria is driving it. Another key trend is Spritz. Spritz is huge, spritz is dominating. You think it's big now. You just wait, it's getting bigger and Victoria is driving it.
Speaker 2:But have a look at this Top 20 regions in Victoria King Valley, prosecco, yarra Valley, then Tassie and then Mornington so clearly Victorians. We have a state and I think we could apply this. I haven't drilled down into South Australia, but I think we could say that there's a state-based flagrant profile wine-style profile that we could look at. I mean, honestly, I could spend hours talking about this.
Speaker 1:I know I'm going to keep coming back to Shandon, but, like for me, I was like the report really clearly said, people drink their local wines. Yes, then you look at Victoria. I had a semi on and, oh no, new South Wales drink a lot of semi on, they have Rindex, but Victoria, they're not drinking sparkling wine from australia, they're drinking, specifically, prosecco from king valley, probably from brown brothers and that's interesting, because do you know how much further away king valley is than me, or valley like there is something going on like is not.
Speaker 1:I don't think that is saying loyalty to our local regions. That is saying this is the cool, hot trend and we're jumping on it.
Speaker 2:Prosecco. They could not give a shit it could come from Timbuktu. It has Prosecco on the label and that's all that counts, and they know what it's going to deliver. You know, my son's going to a bottomless brunch on the weekend and he's like, oh, I hope they have Prosecco, absolutely. And I'm like, well, what Prosecco do you want? Oh, it's just Prosecco, isn't it? It doesn't matter. So I think that's why King Valley is over-indexing in this study, because there is a lot of Prosecco.
Speaker 1:But do you know? I went to a bar in Richmond the other day and it was happy hour and I said, can I have a sparkling wine? And the guy goes to me would you like we have a real Prosecco or just the Brut? Yeah, my husband was standing next to me and he was like. He looked at me and I'm like please, don't say something, don't do the asshole thing, don't be the wanker. Today. I didn't, I just let it go. But freaking hell, that's frustrating. Oh. I said to him oh well, if you say it's real Prosecco, I'll get the Prosecco again.
Speaker 2:I'll get the Prosecco. Yeah, we could talk about this for hours on end. Yeah, we could talk about this for hours on end.
Speaker 1:It is a Look. We've probably got five more minutes of the pod. Let's go into a bit more into the regions. South Australia blend of tradition and emerging varietals. So Shiraz continues to grow share there even though it's not doing as well around the world. It's doing really well in Riesling and Grenache.
Speaker 2:Grenache is on the rise definitely.
Speaker 1:Tasmania. Interestingly rapid evolution in a premium market. So even if volume is down in Tasmania, what they are buying they're spending money on. It's local, it's likely sparkling Tasmania are being heroes at supporting their local state. And also cask wine there is declining at twice the national rate. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And the thing that I found interesting with South Australia was that Barossa still was up there with Adelaide Hills and McLaren Vale and the Riverland Clear Valley, so all their traditional regions. They were really like sticking to and everything under indexed Even Riverina indexed really really well because they're obviously very state-based.
Speaker 1:I'm like I am on the record as not being the biggest fan of big old SA numbers, but good on them. Support your local. That's what you should be doing numbers, but good on them.
Speaker 2:Support your local. That's what you should be doing. I do question. It is very hard to get you know when rob dollar mines was trying to was selling wine in south australia, we would do. We'd send over a couple of cases a month. Yeah, you know, um. Is it because they're not being given that option?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't knowassie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tasmania is their top region, and then the Riverland and Riverina, so that's clearly wine lovers.
Speaker 1:But that's interesting that as cast drinkers is declining at twice the national rate, though, so it's like either people are drinking good or they're not drinking. That's what it sounds like. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely I mean power to cool. That's what it sounds like. Oh, absolutely, Absolutely. I mean, how cool is that? That's kind of the way it should be. Look, let's talk about Queensland. Queensland is.
Speaker 2:It's just all over the place. Is it possible to get a read on Queensland?
Speaker 1:What are you doing? Queensland exhibits exceptionally high engagement with New Zealand wine, extending well beyond Melbourne. What the hell are you guys doing?
Speaker 2:Climate, joy de vivre. Like it's just, we're not going to think about it, we're just going to drink it, do you?
Speaker 1:think a lot of, because a lot of people in New Zealand leave.
Speaker 2:It's like a small town 20% of their population is not living there at any one time, right Do you?
Speaker 1:think a lot of them go to Queensland. No, oh, yes, well, it's like the nicest place in Australia.
Speaker 2:We went to somewhere and they called it the Kiwi Coast.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that makes sense. All the Kiwis are moving to.
Speaker 2:Queensland.
Speaker 1:What's the Sunshine Brisbane all about? Yeah, that's Sunshine Coast. Okay, all the Kiwis are moving to Queensland and making their run during Kiwi Week.
Speaker 2:The guy that picked us up to take us to a cow hire was a Kiwi. When we checked into our apartment it was a Kiwi and we just said and I'm married to one. So we just said, oh, what's going on with all the Kiwis? And they said, oh yeah, they call it the Kiwi Coast. Yeah, but also, I think it does go into their lifestyle. The thing that stood out to me with Queensland was Sweet Reds. Cool, I think. Did I. Am I right? Let me have a look. Queensland, yeah, number 25, sweet Reds over indexes and then Pink Moscato.
Speaker 1:If there's any psychologists listening and Spritzer Like literally. If there's psychologists listening, you could. It's climate no, no, no, no, but I mean you could. Seriously, we're a research setting ourselves at the moment. Everything I've highlighted is analysis text and you go straight to graphs and raw data. I'm a scientist, yeah, you are. Hey. Autographs and raw data. I'm a scientist, yeah, you are. Hey, I'm reading the analysis that someone else has picked out for us and you're literally sitting here in real time assessing raw data. Yeah, you should probably listen to make over me. But next one new south wales. It's just like I don't know. I think they might be doing it right. They have a distinct preference for champagne over sparkling wine. Now, as someone who works for a sparkling wine company, I don't necessarily advocate to drink champagne over Australian sparkling, but also, we all know champagne rocks. Well done, guys. Exceptional Chardonnay sales. Chardonnay is the number two wine segment, so they are killing Chardonnay Rosé champagne as well. That's very interesting, isn't?
Speaker 2:it. That's trendy White semi-white, other varietals Warwick. My friend posted a woman celebrating on Sydney Harbour Bridge that her friends had bought her like a Magnum or something bigger of Rosé and we just said, oh, if that was our party we'd leave. That's what our friends had bought, but also Sydney, yeah. So yeah, they're like white, the varietal champagne, rosé white, so they are drinking it. And then dessert wine, which I thought was interesting. Not many people drink dessert wines. That is interesting. Well, I reckon that's a Griffith Noble, one kind of hangover.
Speaker 1:But also people who go out a lot business deals. You get dessert at a restaurant. If you were an educated wine person, even if you're just almost at two, you're going, let's get dessert wine. I think that kind of makes sense. There's lots of businesses, lots of fancy restaurants, but the New South Wales men don't like it.
Speaker 2:So have a look at Victoria. So super under the average. So even Queensland wines rate higher. Shut up. Yeah, look at Queensland and then look at Victoria. Come on, let it go.
Speaker 1:Okay, in this whole Victoria versus New South Wales Sydney Melbourne debate, I find Melbourne people always get picked on like Victoria versus New South Wales Sydney Melbourne debate. I find Melbourne people always get picked on like oh my God, sydney, don't even think about you. Melbourne is the ones that is always comparing yourselves like you think you're better. I am sorry, wallets are talking. No one's drinking Victorian Sydney outsiders have something against us.
Speaker 2:They're drinking Hunter Valley and Western.
Speaker 1:Australia. Yeah well, fair Semi unrolls and. Queensland Like seriously Okay, but who is drinking Queensland? I'm sorry, I'd love to see this.
Speaker 2:This has got to be one blip. There's got to be one wine that's performing reasonably well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but Queensland, because it just doesn't make any sense. Okay, look, we've touched on Victoria, but yeah, yeah, victoria is really driving innovation and change. Yes, the whole rest of the country is following. So, spritz, we're leading, pinot Noir, we're leading. Everyone else is following.
Speaker 2:This has often happened in Victoria, particularly Melbourne-led, because you know Sydney's out of sight, because we don't have a lot else to do because the weather's so bad. But I do think that, culturally, victorians have been more European. We're global, yeah.
Speaker 1:We're global and cultural in Melbourne. Sydney is like glamorous and they like brands. Which checks out with them. They're flashy. They are flashy Western Australia. They show a distinct preference for Margaret Rivers wines. That makes sense. Sainte-mille-blancs. Sainte-mille-blancs.
Speaker 2:But the national leader in Prosecco yeah wow, I mean it's hard there I guess. The strong demand for Prosecco seems to be driven by the national trend rather than the local wine industry. Yeah, wow, do you think it's the mining people?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it makes sense actually, Whining, whining, whining, people have a lot of whining South Australia lesser enthusiasm.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and Tasmania stands out out of everyone for allegiance to their local region. Good on you, tassie. Yeah, but it's not in growth. No, it is, yeah, but they register the highest over-index in sales from its own states. So New South Wales drinks less. No, sorry, new South Wales over-indexes in wine from New South Wales, where I say something from South Australia, they make more wine than is consumed, whereas Tasmania they are completely over-indexing in sales from its own state's wines.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think that part of that is we have to ship the wine across, so it makes it a little bit more expensive.
Speaker 1:Doesn't it? Wouldn't dance be line priced around the country?
Speaker 2:Oh, dance would be. You're right, yeah, but secondly, I just think, tourism in Tasmania. How much is that driving when you go to Tasmania? I know, when I go to Tasmania I drink Tasmanian wine, but not necessarily in New South Wales, I would drink Hanta.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is Okay. So, look, I think we've wrapped up most of the key points in this report. We can talk for hours on this, but it's a bit nerdy. One of the key things I liked is that they're like millennials are just now coming into their fair share of red wine and champagne, because they're earning money.
Speaker 2:Red wine doesn't necessarily mean money. They've hit that 37-year-old.
Speaker 1:It means palate maturity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they've hit that 37-year-old thing. You know, when you start out with wine, like I'm watching it with my children, you start out with some sweet gooey shit and then you know Elliot and Mary loving the Pinot Gris.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's quite soft Yep.
Speaker 2:Lucas is still very much on. Oh, give me the dessert one. Yeah, Because it's nice and sweet, Because acid is hard and as you're, you know, when you're a kid you love sweets. Yeah, and as you get older you love more savoury stuff.
Speaker 1:It really is a great report. It is amazing If you're a nerd. I think our new doctor friends who are listening might be nerds like us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go look it up, because there's some science data in there as well.
Speaker 1:It really is interesting to read through. It has exposed a lot of things that there's, a lot of things that we've known for a long time, but there's really a few things in here which were news to everyone.
Speaker 2:Well, it's confirmed it and anyone who's studying their diploma or WCT Level 3 or NMW. I would definitely encourage you to read this, because it is.
Speaker 1:But Wine Business. We have plenty of people following us that are Wine Business. Read it, Get across what is relevant for your business and send it to the people in your business who it matters, and highlight some key insights. Make yourself look really smart. That's right. That's what I do.
Speaker 2:You've always got to highlight a pin out, don't you?
Speaker 1:I do, I do I always. Whenever something new comes out, I send it to the business. I'm going to use my insights, just absorb it. Yes, oh, it's a shame. It's all right. It feels like it's time to wrap up today. We will be back with you next week. Until then, enjoy your next lesson. Bye, bye.
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