Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
Subregions: Can different sides of a hill REALLY make a difference in Pinot Noir?
What if two Pinots from the same producer, made the same way, could still taste nothing alike? We uncork that mystery by tracing flavour back to elevation, aspect, soil and the quiet work of a long ripening season. Starting on the Mornington Peninsula with Ten Minutes by Tractor, we compare “Down the Hill” and “Up the Hill” and show how a cooler ridge delivers darker colour, finer tannins and perfume, while lower sites pour bright cranberry fruit and a touch more bunchy grip. The takeaway is simple and thrilling: site speaks, even when the label doesn’t list a formal sub-region.
Then we head to the Yarra Valley with Giant Steps, where single-vineyard Pinots translate geography into texture. Sexton in Gruyere ripens earliest and drinks fleshier with darker fruit and confident tannin. Applejack in Gladysdale steps higher for florals, red cherry and elegant structure. Bastard Hill climbs again, picking later and unfolding cardamom, Sichuan pepper and coiled energy that begs for time. With consistent winemaking across the range, the differences you taste are pure place—grey clays versus red volcanic soils, bushland buffering temperatures, row orientation guiding sunlight across the canopy.
Along the way we unpack how unofficial sub-regions coexist with Australia’s GI system, why row direction matters as much as slope, and how climate change has nudged former sparkling strongholds into still-wine brilliance. If Burgundy taught us to listen to parcels, Mornington and the Yarra are crafting an Australian dialect of terroir that any curious drinker can learn. Ready to taste the map instead of just reading it? Follow the journey, share it with a wine friend, and if you love this kind of deep dive, tap subscribe, leave a review, and tell us which vineyard you want us to visit next.
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Hi, and welcome to Wine with Meg and Malware here to help in the world of wine. I'm Melville Chris. I'm here with Martha Wine. Meg Rotman. Meg, what are we doing today?
SPEAKER_00:We're going to investigate the concept of sub-regionality. You know, it's on my radar at the moment because at the Wine Yarrow Valley Association we have been talking about do we train our cellital staff to talk about sub-regionality? Is it is it too much? Is it too early? Whatever. We are putting together, the technical committee is putting together a sort of a you know a talking sheet. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:People just I think our maybe take a step back and describe what sub-originality, what we mean by that.
SPEAKER_00:So within every region, um it's not the same. You have different levels of elevation in in regions, you have different levels of proximity to to seas, um, oceans, you have different latitudes even. Look at Tasmania. You know, different latitudes. You have different um uh the the the bushland that's surrounding where you're you're sitting, you have different aspects which way your vineyard's facing. So i it's a question of when we talk about sub regionality, we sort of talk about uh like I'll use the Yarrow Valley because I know it best. Gruyere is in the lower Yarrow of Leaf Floor and has sort of it's on the you know the golden mile and is best for Cabernet. But there are great Pinot vineyards on there as well. Why is that? Um you've also got um the Upper Yarrow, which is supposedly better for Pinot and Chardonnay because it's higher elevations, got cooler air coming down, but it also has different soils. So it just varies.
SPEAKER_01:Now I think we should make the distinction that there are some official subregions that wine Australia that that are legally acknowledged in Australia, and then there are so many. No, so probably the best example I can think of is that if you see Barossa on a label, it could come from anywhere between within a region called Barossa, which is big, but then within the Barossa, we have Barossa Valley and Eden Valley.
SPEAKER_00:And within Upper Golden, you have Nagambi Lakes, is a recognised GI. Now, I don't think most people would recognise that Nagambi Lakes will even know where it was. So I find that interesting. But yeah, you've got Eden Valley.
SPEAKER_01:I for perspectives on how hard it is to get subregions across the line. I decided this year that because remember we tasted one, um, the sparkling wine from Witlands, and we were like, it's so good, it is so different. And it is like if you think of King Valley, Whitlands High Plateau is a mountain, right? It's so different. It is nothing like King Valley, which is all like Sandra Visi and stuff, but Whitlands is a sparkling mountain. And I was like, I just like came out of I just like went into a trance one day and come up and I was like, we need to get an official GI for Whitlands and I ran around. I like fully made a presentation. I got the winemakers and I was like, what do you think? This is the best idea ever. And they were like, oh, cute. Yeah, I know. For about 20 years, people have said that yeah, they there was an official effort to try a decade or so ago, and it got nowhere. But they actually got the surveyors out and did this and that and put in a formal application. There's different soil types, you know? There's a whole heap around it. They were like, you can try, but you don't have the resource. You need a team of people. Like, we're Shandon. Like, if anyone had the resource to do it, surely it is one of the biggest companies operating in Victoria. And even they were like, it's you can't let you don't have the resource, it's not gonna work. So it's really hard to get these across the line. So when we talk about subregions that we're using almost just industry colloquial, like that we've picked up from other people because they're not legally recognised.
SPEAKER_00:So it's are there geological or geographical differences um within a region and that sort of applies to a larger area than just a single site. So it applies to a yeah, around a township, for example. So we're going to be talking about Mornington here. So we've got um two 10 minutes by tractor wines, and one is um up the hill and down the hill. So up the hill refers to Main Ridge, which is the ridge in the middle of Mornington, and the other one's Coolett Road, which is down the hill. So we've got up the hill and down the hill. Now, most people wouldn't know what that was referring to anyway, shape, or form, but uh producers know that site is important. Um, and I would argue that the wines that we're tasting today are site specific rather than sub-region specific.
SPEAKER_01:So I think let's just get straight into it because it's just such a good segue. Um what are you expecting? Are you expecting these both to taste like because we tasted Mornington in the last episode and it was more like plush and rich and velvety. Are you take expecting them both to still be plush and rich and velvety just in different ways?
SPEAKER_00:I want them to have a Mornington footprint to start with, so that I identify with it being Mornington. But my understanding is the Up the Hill wine, which is our second wine that we're tasting today, ripens on average is picked 20 odd days later. So it's clearly a cooler site because it's the same producer. So I'm assuming the alcohols are probably about the same at 13%. The wine making's going to be quite similar. So it is really depending on where they are within the region. Now, I don't really know where Coolett Road is, I have to say. Um, but it's obviously at lower elevation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so yeah. Up the hill and down the hill.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so Coolett Road, the the vineyard in this is 78% Cooler Road, Capella Vineyard, 17%, and Mihali 5%. The Clones Clones are FB6 Abel, and it's hand-picked and hand-sorted. Most of the D stem with some whole bunch in separate parcels, fermented and concrete and stainless steel, blah blah blah blah blah. Do you see a difference between the two wines for a start?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, um, do you I haven't tasted them yet? Do you mean C, like visually C? One is slightly darker. Oh no, you mean dwell? Okay, sorry, I'll get in. But maybe. I just do want to preface this as well because we often taste through more like approachable wines that people can afford to buy on their weekend. Once again, this whole episode is where all these wines are gonna be around, I'm gonna I'm just gonna say around$90. Um, 10 minutes by tractor and giant and giant steps. Yeah, they're they're worth it, absolutely. But I just want to manage everyone's expectations about what we're going into. Okay, sorry. So we have Up the Hill, is Up the Hill on my left and down the Hill on My Right.
SPEAKER_00:You poured them. Down the Hill's your first one. Up the Hill's the second one.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, okay, down the hill's the first one.
SPEAKER_00:So basically, the difference between them, I think, is they smell. You know, last week I said that when you have these cooler sites, what you have is you have this longer ripening period. So you get more of the goodness. It's 23 days extra on the vine, you know, ripening. And so the first thing you notice is that up the hill is actually darker in colour than the down the hill wine.
SPEAKER_01:How does that make sense? That doesn't make sense to me.
SPEAKER_00:Because it's longer ripening, so it's accumulating a little bit more colour and tannins and flavor things over time.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, see, in my head, because it's longer hang tight. At the bottom of the hill, though, it's going to be warmer, so the grapes get riper and the skins get thicker, so you have more colour.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, but you're talking about a cool year here. So we're in 2022 for the down the hill. Is it up the hill to 2023? What are you pouring now?
SPEAKER_01:I'm sorry, I just tasted and went, that tastes too similar to the Tassie. Now I want to retaste it against the Tassie. Oh, okay. Sorry, do you want it to? I was just doing it for myself, but if you're interested as well.
SPEAKER_00:So the 2023 Down the Hill Pinot highlights a sub-regional difference between main ridge fruit and those from lower elevations. And they're sort of saying ripe cranberry, raspberry, compot. So compot is cooked fruit. Yeah. Uh baked cherry, floral lift, but you still have those beautiful um tannins, you know, those lovely plush tannins. No, it's it's it's mar the remember we said last week that when we we had the Pinot from Tassie First, and then we had the Mornington Pinot, and we said it's almost jammy in comparison. These two wines are definitely jumping out the glass with fruit. There's not a savory minerality about these two. These are definitely Pinot from Mornington.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Where I was getting stuck is that they have um a lightness. Like they're a bit less in intensity than the one we tried last week. But going back and retasting, you're right, it's it's in the characters, not in the intensity. The characters are quite different.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right. And Capella Vineyard is is at a lower site. So some of this fruit is actually from the Capella Vineyard, which is the wine that we tasted last week.
SPEAKER_01:Um, obviously, there's different soils, so um, you know, there are no official Oh my god, the nose on the up the hill is just I I find the down the hill greener.
SPEAKER_00:That doesn't make sense. Is that your tomato stem or did you say that was a Yarra character?
SPEAKER_01:It was a Yarra character, but I actually do get it here. No, it's not. No, there's nothing with stems. Um it's not. No, but it does smell STEM y not green, but it's that could be the winemaking.
SPEAKER_00:Let me have a look. Uh cook line is 10 minutes by tractor.
SPEAKER_01:And the uh context about Ten Minutes by Tractor is they would absolutely be one of the most renowned.
SPEAKER_00:Obsessive, and it's fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:It is, it is.
SPEAKER_00:Martin is just a and they He's a scientist, he's an alchemist, he's a crazy man.
SPEAKER_01:I think in in all the good ways. There are some wineries who try to do every varietal and some wineries do every varietal very well. And some wineries go not, we're gonna hone in on the one or the two things that we do best, and we are just going to do all these different expressions of the absolute best.
SPEAKER_00:The thing I love about Ten Minutes by Tractor, apart from their restaurant, is um they are obsessed with making the very best Pinot they can. They charge for it. Oh, they do, but so they should. This is hand sorted, so they would be throwing out berries that possibly goes into a lower level wine. There is a little bit of um whole bunch in here. So you're right, there's probably a stemmy character. And I think you feel that in the tannins. There's that grippy.
SPEAKER_01:I can smell the stemminess, but it's not like it's beautiful. Like it's not, I'm not saying it in a bad way.
SPEAKER_00:It's oh, it definitely adds to the wine.
SPEAKER_01:So delicate, like they are so have this lightness to them, which is beautiful.
SPEAKER_00:There's a stemminess in Up the Hill as well, though.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it's less, it's got a more perfume to it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's there, but it's a more perfumed it's I think I I don't think these are that expensive. I think they're more around the 50.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you've got the phone. Mine's recording it. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Let me have a look. 46.99 at NYX.
SPEAKER_01:Is that all?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So they say lighter colour than most of it's sibling, the converse of the down-the-hill Pinot, not necessarily what I expect. Very pretty strawberry fruits. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Now, if you're in Victoria, what I would say, instead of going out and just like buying a bottle, go through 10 minutes by tractor. Like, go do a tasting because every time I've done a tasting there, I have been served by someone who really knows the shit.
SPEAKER_00:It is one of the best. In fact, it's a desk, it's like Toys R Us. It is a go-to destination. Well, no, you know how you drive just to a shopping centre for Toys R Us? It's a marketing thing. They talk in retail about destination shops. Okay. Go there.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Go to have a tasting first, which is a fantastic experience, and then go and have lunch. The restaurant is next level.
SPEAKER_01:But I mean, like, if you're going to buy a bottle of 10 minutes by tractor, go there, taste through them on site, and then buy your bottle there because just the educational experience, the way they taste. They show you a map and they go, okay, now we're going up the hill. And you taste the map. Do you remember the big little little thing always sent us? Oh, I remember how much you liked that, the map. And you were like obsessing, and then you were like, Mel's gonna post a picture on Instagram of and I was like, too far.
SPEAKER_00:She's not going to post that. It's like talking about pH.
SPEAKER_01:We get sent collateral from lots of producers, and some of it is gorgeous, and I agree it's great, but I don't know if we need to post it to our Instagram. It is delicious. Wait, sorry, but is it distinctly different enough for you to say it is worthy of doing two different bottles to differentiate two different is it even would you say two different sites?
SPEAKER_00:Okay. The Morning Hills treasure and the lights. Nice reading noises. Yep. Down the hill is a selection of best barrel produced from our down the hill vineyards. So they're not off main ridge, I'm assuming. Whereas the up the hill is off the ridge. Um they're they're defin they're 100% different. There's still a bunchiness between the two of them. I would I would suggest that the first one, the down the hill, has a little bit more bunchiness, maybe to give a little bit more of that tannin structure to it. Yeah. They both have that um I don't want to use the word jammy, but that really beautiful berry fruit characteristic. Yeah. And then I think that the up the hill is more reminiscent of classic Mornington Pinot. You were a bit confused by the down the hill. You were sort of saying, Oh, it's a bit tazzy. Yeah, I was. And I see what you mean, because it is definitely lighter in colour. That could be part of the winemaking. Yeah. Um but they're both, I mean this is the thing about sub-regionality. I I would argue it is sight.
SPEAKER_01:So you're saying in wait, you would argue that these ones are sight. You mean? Yeah. Yeah, no, and I think that probably I've I've not necessarily misspoken, but I've miss um something with these ones, because they are. They are more within the same subregion, but they are going so we've we've almost skipped a step, right? It's not Yeah. We're within we're in the same sub-region, just two different vineyards within it. Yeah. So it's exactly.
SPEAKER_00:So that's the thing. It's it's it's w you know, we can't really name the subregions of Mornington, Main Ridge obviously being one. Red Red Hill would be one. But then you've got um oh hang on. I need three glasses. Mel's Mel's putting the pressure on me. One. Sorry. Two.
SPEAKER_01:No, go, you were about to make a good point.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, so we can't really name the subregions. Uh it would be interesting, and I don't know if anyone's doing this, if we could have a look at Red Hill, Main Ridge, closer to the coast. Um, that and and Mornington's it, don't forget it's the other side, it's the Shoreham side as well. It's not just the sort of rosebuddy dramana side, which we all think about because that's where Victorians tend to holiday, it is the whole peninsula. So, is there a difference between the other side of the peninsula to the to the side that we normally go to? I think, and I think that this is going to bear out when we start talking about the fantastic giant steps wines that we've had the pleasure of being um given to us. That it comes, people who doing this aren't talking about region. The only one that I can think of that possibly is talking about sub-region is Mac Forbes.
SPEAKER_01:Because he names But we kind of did uh Rob Dolan. Remember we had white label was more like Upa Yara and black label was more like Yeah, but that was from one vineyard.
SPEAKER_00:Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:It wasn't from But it's still a vineyard in a different region.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure. Sure. But it'll be interesting to look at vineyards in Gladysdale versus Oh, hang on. Sorry, just trying to open my computer.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so now we move to Giant Steps. So I will give a bit of context while you get into that. Giant Steps in the Arrow Valley has just become so it's becoming iconic. Like I it's not necessarily a super historic vineyard or something, but or winery, but it does such good quality stuff. It does really, really good job of of vineyard specific that it's just flown to the top. And um they just keep killing it in things like Halliday and in particular their winemaker, she's been there what three or four years, Melanie Chester.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think that things have changed since she's been there? Or has she just continued a really strong trajectory?
SPEAKER_00:I think, I mean, Steve Flamstead was the winemaker there and he set it all up. So I think he definitely um put his stamp on it, and she had big shoes to fill. Mel came out of Sutton, Sutton Grange. She's an amazing woman. Um God, she's so cool. She just, you know, listening to her, I was talking to her yesterday about these wines, and she said, Look, I'm not from the Yara, so I'm I'm I'm learning, but she had almost that newcomer's perspective. So it it wasn't like, you know, Flammo's been in the era for years, we've all been in the era for years. She she had this, yeah. Well, this is what it is, and the way she talks about the wines is just amazing.
SPEAKER_01:She is so cool and humble and down to earth, considering she is making these wines that are getting massive awards and recognition. Uh, listen to the Halliday podcast is back. It it kind of went for a couple of years, it's back. Um, Anna Webster is doing it now. She's the editor there, and she's really cool and we love her. Um, but she's doing like an interview format podcast with Winemakers. She did Mal, and Mal is just really, really cool to listen to. She is cool.
SPEAKER_00:She well, they it's it's a team effort, so and Mel would be the first to admit that. So it's owned by Jackson Family Wines, and Jackson Family Wines is an American company, and their aim is to have the best single vineyard and site-specific wines in the world.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, around the world. Yeah. I didn't know that that was a thing around the world.
SPEAKER_00:Their aim. They're a global company. Um, she has a lot of pressure on her. She's, you know, she's got an American company behind her. That is so much pressure. Pressure. And she, for all of that, and who her and her team are so basic. So basically I'm so chill. It was started by Phil Sexton, the giant steps, um, and he wanted to look at different sites, sites in the era. So when I spoke to Mel, we there are three vineyards that they um they take their Pinot from. There's Sexton Vineyard, which is in Gruyer, there's the Applejack Vineyard, which is in the Upper Yarra, and then there's Bastard Hill. So you need to put Applejack and Bastard Hill together because they are from the same township of Gruyere, of, of um Gladysdale in the Upper Yarra.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so uh okay, so Gladysdale's Upper Yarrow.
SPEAKER_00:Right? So Sexton is Gruyer.
SPEAKER_01:Now Mel says to me Gruyer's lower valley floor.
SPEAKER_00:Mel said to me, I'm behind. Sexton is behind Yarry Erring and Warrimate. Oh I should be making cabernet from this site. Why have I got a Pinot Vineyard? And basically she said, because the way that the Warrimate hills go, Warramate Vineyard, which is part of Yarry Erring, is sort of on the foothill. She said, Whereas we're in this little pocket which faces a different direction. So she said it's basically it faces due north, with some pa places sort of facing southeast. They're not really skinny soils, but they're not super rich soils either. And she finds that the peanuts here, maybe because it is should be a cabinet site, are often fleshier, more satsuma, some sweet spice.
SPEAKER_01:Let's just give a little bit of context to the reason that we care about which way the vineyards are facing, is because if you're facing the equator, you're going to get more sunlight during the day, basically, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So in the north, you want to face the equator to get more sun. Now that was more of an issue, obviously, in Europe. We probably care a little bit less about that.
SPEAKER_01:That's why in Europe we always hear about what way their sites are facing.
SPEAKER_00:So like in But it's also the orientation of your vineyard within that site. Oh wow, we're getting it. So if say my vineyard is north facing, but I plant this way.
SPEAKER_01:But why does it matter? Vines are 360, don't they get what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:No, because it's not like a front and a back to a vine, is there? There's a north, right? Yeah. There's south, my vineyard's facing that way. Sun rises in the east, so this side gets morning sun. Sets in the west, this side gets afternoon sun. Whereas if I plant that way, that's still north.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So the rows are running east to west, rises in the east, cross crosses the whole vineyard, and sets in the west. But vines are three, sixty degrees. No, they're not. They don't, they're not like 20 soul sunflowers that are turning around to follow the sun. They're fixed in place. Do you mean the fact that there's rows of vines?
SPEAKER_01:The row orientation. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I wasn't very clear. I yeah, I'm thinking about this specific vine. I was like, there's not a front and a back. No. Okay, so we're talking about the rows. Okay, so.
SPEAKER_00:Matt, Mel needs to draw a map.
SPEAKER_01:Meg just used a lot of visuals, so I'm gonna try and say this. If our rows are facing the sun, in theory, the sun will get to every vine because it's facing it, and there's it the other vines aren't going to be casting shade over the ones behind them. I have never thought about that, Meg.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so if you've got a cross, right? No, like I do exactly. The horizontal line is east-west, so it rises in the morning and moves across. The other one, if it rises in the morning, it's only got just Oh my god. Yeah. So orientation is important. So Sexton Vineyard, I'll just give you Mel gave me a good rundown. And she did say to me Mel the winemaker. Mel the Chester, sorry, not Mel, my Mel. Um, she did say to me that um it's site meg, it's not sub-regionality. So Sexton is at 200 metres, is in Gruyere. So they pick the Pinanoir when they start picking the Chardonnay in Apple Jack, which is the Apajera. So they're picking Pinot Noir at Gruyere, at the same time they're picking Chardonnay, which ripens earlier than Pinot.
SPEAKER_01:So it's riping way, ripening way earlier. And that is because there's less elevation, so it gets riper quickly.
SPEAKER_00:It's less elevation, it's warmer. They're on what Mel described as the sloppy grey slays clays. Sloppy! Yes. Not really skinny soils, but not super rich. And then she has the upper traditionally what we would call the upper Yara wines. We have Applejack Vineyard, which is at 280 metres, which is on the grey, but she thinks it's more of a loam duplex soil, but so let's say grey. So similar soil to the Sexton Vineyard. But then we have Bastard Hill, which is in the same village of Gladysdale, but it's at 400 metres.
SPEAKER_01:So there's now elevation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So you've got Apple Jack, and the Bastard Hill is picked seven to ten days after Apple Jack. And she finds in the Bastard Hill that you get more exotic fruits, florals, cardamom, coriander spice, and Sichuan peppercorns. It's longer ripening periods, therefore longer accumulation of the good stuff. But the key to this site, she thinks, is it's surrounded by temperate bushland, so it's like giving a bit of a warm hug, so there's some heat in there.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's adorable.
SPEAKER_00:And it's on the red dirt, it's on the red soils.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And interestingly, both Applejack and Bastard Hill were originally planted for sparkling wine.
SPEAKER_01:That makes sense to me. Yeah. Well, what does get said about the Yarra is that when Shandon first got there 30 or 40 years ago, it was a lot cooler and it made sense for sparkling wine.
SPEAKER_00:But now When I worked in uh Shandon in hmm, I'm gonna say 90 so 95, whatever, it pissed down with rain. Bastard Hill was owned by um Hardy's and it was planted to Chardonnay Pennoir, and Domain Chandon was buying the fruit because it was sparkling base, it was a new vineyard, so sparkling base. They couldn't get a machine harvester in because of the rain. So over Easter they had to pay people to hand harvest with like triple times and everything, even though we were only on$12 an hour in the cellar back then. Wow. No overtime. And it came in, and I remember they dumped the fruit, and the spores of patrytis that flew up were all like, we're gonna get pigeon fanciers disease with these spores embedded in our lungs. It was disgusting.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. But wait, are you proving a point that it was cold back then?
SPEAKER_00:It was cold.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so it was cold.
SPEAKER_00:But now it was cold and it was wet.
SPEAKER_01:Now Shandon's best wines come from, well, as we said, Whitlands. So in that 30 years, 30 years isn't that long. Isn't that crazy? Climate change is accelerating. At the risk of becoming a political podcast, which some might argue we are political adjacent already because Mag is so into politics. It is crazy that there has been that much effect on the climate in only 30 years in this region.
SPEAKER_00:So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna just talk quickly about Applejack and then I want you to taste the wines and tell me what you think. So the Applejack is the same township, so region sub-regionality as the Bastard Hill. So it's in Gladysdale, but it's in the footh the foothills of the Gladysdale Gladysdale Ranges. It's sheltered by bushland at the back, and it has an easterly aspect, which me and they find that stem lignification happens often, so whole cluster is good here, but it depends on the season. Um but she's Mel said that it's duplex soils, but also these sloppy clays, which I just love that term.
SPEAKER_01:I love the term sloppy.
SPEAKER_00:She thinks that site expression is more important than not just the township, because she said there's a relationship with the sun, the soil type, the surrounding bush, the aspect, the elevation, and the latitude. And she broke down and this is literally a 10-minute conversation. This is how brilliant this woman is. She broke down um sort of Yarrow Valley sub regionality into the Warrior hotspot. So you've got Lasatia Park and Hank Vineyard, and then we've got the Gladysdale Hotspot, which is a deer park, Hazeldeen, Applejack. What we need to do is sit down and have a tasting of that. Just what, all the giant stabs? No, all of the so Lasatia Park, Hank Vineyard. Oh, yeah. Because they're sort of subregions within you've got sites and then subregions. But we need to get money from that. Um the wine making across the three wines is generally the same. Um, with Applejack maybe having a little bit more bunch. Awesome. So what do you see?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. So without a doubt, what was the first one? Sexton. Without a doubt, Sexton has the most tannic tannin, right?
SPEAKER_00:It's um I'd say these are mostly MV6.
SPEAKER_01:If well, that's clone talk, which we don't have time for. But um, if we if I were to choose one of these to pair with like lamb or protein, it would absolutely be that sextant. And I guess the fact that it's valley floor makes sense, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Valley Floor has the the riper, the um darker fruits, the the plum characteristic, which we expect from sort of valley floor. We it is on the the foothills on the Warrimate ranges. Um as we move up into the upper Yarra, which is both where Applejack and Bastard Hill are, for me, I would expect to see some more perfume, some more lifted violets.
SPEAKER_01:That Bastard Hill is unreal. How much are those? By the way, 65? You've got the working phone in front of you. I thought they were more than that. I thought giant steps were getting closer to a hundred bucks. We will check because it's worth knowing, but they are definitely well sought after wines that that demand those prices.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, we are very lucky.
SPEAKER_01:Um can I just sidebar for a
SPEAKER_00:Second and be like Sexton's 93.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there we go. I thought they were all around that 90 kind of mark.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and they actually do a Coal River Pinot as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they do. One of the things and they do one, a blend with Central Otago. I will say the exact same thing that I said for um 10 Minutes by Tractor. Go to Giant Steps. Like, don't just go and buy these wines in our word. Like actually go to the winery and taste and then buy the wines there because that tasting I the tasting room is a little lost.
SPEAKER_00:Giant steps tasting room, but they have moved into a new winery.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, so the tasting room separates from the winery. But so the tasting room's actually in Hillsville.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's in where habitual.
SPEAKER_01:It's like near, I don't know, it's near the park.
SPEAKER_00:It's near the park. If you're heading towards uh the Hillsville Sanctuary, just before you turn right, turn right, yeah, opposite the supermarket.
SPEAKER_01:It's kind of good that it's in town, I think, if you're doing a day up.
SPEAKER_00:It is. They did used to have the big site at the back, um, but they've bought a new winery which was Sunshine Creek, so they're out in Yarra Glen now. But I would love to see them put because I know that that site was built for an amazing seller, but you don't get the footfall that you would get in Hillsville. So, in terms of the wine, so the the Sexton, more of that ripe dark fruit. We've got a few minutes, Del.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, no, no. We we have time, but I do want to hammer home that point. Go taste there. The tasting room is fantastic, but also the service is fantastic. I think I I don't know if I just told you this story. I I don't know if I told it on the podcast. I get confused sometimes about our real life conversations and what we're spoken about on the podcast. But um when I went tasting at Giant Steps recently, I was like, this guy is amazing. Like, who is he? He is speaking incredibly about this wine. And he came around and he goes, like, how am I doing? And I was like, You're amazing. And he goes, You taught me. I taught you lessons. I know.
SPEAKER_00:He used to be with Brown Brothers, remember? We both taught Brown Brothers. If any of you in the Yarrow Valley are listening, we offered what WSCT at Boto at Crago this in October, level two, one person. Put your finger out, people. We're gonna offer it again next year at Bodo Krago. The site is amazing for tasting wine. So Mel are be there, I'll be there. Come and do the WCT at Boto Crago.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, oh, and we are so much do you know what I say? So people go into the Prince Wine Store to do WSCT. Yes. And that's in South Melbourne, so I understand it's a very good location. But if you do WSCT, you're gonna get a handful of teachers because that is the strategy, is that you don't just learn from one person, everyone has different perspectives and backgrounds, and so you get lots of different teachers. But I do the boring sessions. I say to people, if you want Meg Brockman, because people come in, they always listen to the podcast. Every single class I teach, at least half of them listen to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00:It's like they're disappointed they haven't got me.
SPEAKER_01:Well, no, they love me, Meg, it's fine. I know they do love you. Um everyone keeps telling me how good you are. Um, that's nice. But no, they I mean, of course they want you though. Normally you only get Meg Brottman in Melbourne if you do like diploma, maybe Wess It three? Three. So if you do three or diploma, you get Meg. But if you do two, you don't get Meg. But if you do two in Bayara, you get Mega Mel. You get Mega Mel. So if you like the podcast and want to do Wess It next year, look out for that because that is definitely the one you want to sign up to. And it's a great course.
SPEAKER_00:But back to the wines. Yes. Apart from promoting ourselves, what's your favourite? Oh, without a doubt, the Bastard Hill. Oh, see, I've always just loved Applejack.
SPEAKER_01:Really?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I liked it, but honestly.
SPEAKER_00:I remember making wine from this vineyard in the 90s. Was it because you have like a um No, I thought what a stupid name for a vineyard.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no, I think it's cute.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I just I think it actually I really like for me, it really represents the the upper Yara. It's not on red soils, which is interesting. That is Bastard Hill is on the the red volcanic soil. So a volcano exploded 230 million years ago, which is Cradle Mountain. And it's degraded, as I've said before. If you want to bury someone, this is a place to do it because you can literally go six feet down with one. No, we're not. The the murders happen, they're just trying to hide it. So it's after the fact. I listen to a lot of podcasts because I'm a middle-aged woman.
SPEAKER_01:Just when they played this recording in court, I want it noted that I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00:That applejack is just stunning.
SPEAKER_01:Can you tell me like what it is specifically about the Applejack that draws you to it?
SPEAKER_00:There's a floralness and a perfume to it. I love the tannin structure. It is just everything that I expect from the upper Yarrow, whereas the Bastard Hills for me is still a little bit tight. Um we use this term in winemaking, which I'm not really a fan of. Tension. It it it's it's like an uncalled spring at the moment, so I think it needs a bit more time. These are 2024 wines, so they're young. So if you're going to be going out and you want something to splurge on tonight, I would get the the apple jacket. And the sexton is just deliciousness.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00:You know, they they obviously do really well at the Yarrow Valley wine show. But what I loved was normally Mel picks up a bazillion awards, and someone else won something this year that she I kind of expected that they would have won, and she was so excited. Like her face was just oh yay.
SPEAKER_01:I'm sorry, at the risk of being a massive fangirl, she's so cool. And it did make me think that once again at the risk of sideballing into a different genre. God, the women in the yara are cool.
SPEAKER_00:We have more women per capita than any other wine region in Australia.
SPEAKER_01:But do you know what? There is I can't, I was I was literally just running through my head going, can you think of a prominent personality or winemaker, just person in the yara in wine, who is a bit of a dick. And I can't think of any.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, Crowy's a bit of a dick. Crowie's yeah, well your friend's dick. She's quite cool.
SPEAKER_01:Crowie's so cool. Mel's mad.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:In the good way. Sarah Crow is Yarry Erring. When you say Crowie, that's who you mean. And but she's also down to earth and just, I mean, she's she's nerdy for wine. But she's cool and she's humble and she's passionate about the industry, doesn't she? She doesn't walk around being like I'm better than everyone else. And either does Malchester. Malchester is way too down to earth for the role that she carries right now.
SPEAKER_00:She sits on the Wine Victoria board as a director representing the area.
SPEAKER_01:She's a chiller. I want to have a beer with her. Okay, so the first episode we did last week was you taste all of those. Could you pinpoint the region? 100%. Now we go and I couldn't upper region.
SPEAKER_00:Upper Yarra.
SPEAKER_01:So you think that if you had these, and maybe we could have done it this way, but whatever, it's done. Um if if if you had all these in front of you, could you have gone Mornington Yarra?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Wow. And I reckon if you put the Yarra in front of me with upper and lower, just two glasses, I could have picked the upper. The bastard hill for me is the confusing one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay. Well, look, this did exactly what I wanted it to. It well, it it proved a point either way, and the point that it did prove was that um regionality exists and sub-regionality, nay, site differences exist. And in Pinot's a really good thing to test it out on because there's not a whole lot of winemaking in Pinot, we have a contention of the integrity of the cross.
SPEAKER_00:Well, burgundy is the most parcelated region in the world. Why are we not doing it?
SPEAKER_01:So when Meg says parcelated region, she means that we really understand. Yeah, when you study burgundy, you don't just go burgundy taste like this, you go all these different places in Burgundy tastes like this.
SPEAKER_00:It looks couton is different to Nouris and George. And you know, and sometimes they're like one hectare and Burgundy's gotten itself to that point. This is what I love about what giant steps in Ten Minutes by Tractor are doing is they are they are showing sight and showing, you know, what they can do. They're single vineyard wines and good on them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, unreal. Well, thank you to all the wineries that supplied these wines these last couple of episodes. This has been just oh, it's been good education. It's been time. I think it's been a while since we just like got down on Pinot. Yeah, got down on Pinot. We hope you enjoy your next slide.
SPEAKER_00:If you're watching Instagram, I'm just drinking this at this stage.
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