Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
To POP or HISS? Does how you open bubbles matter or are we all being wankers?
We put the champagne opening myth to the test, comparing the quiet hiss to the party pop to see if bubble quality actually changes. Along the way we unpack Coravin’s medical-engineering roots, wine by the glass growth, and why glassware choice feels fussy yet useful.
• Coravin inventor’s medical background and impact
• How Coravin preserves wine using argon
• London and Melbourne leading wine by the glass
• Safety-first method for opening sparkling
• Charmat versus traditional method explained
• Blind tasting: pop versus hiss bubble texture
• Glassware choices for sparkling, aged Riesling, and red
• Theatre of wine versus practical service
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Hi, and welcome to One with Megan Melbourne. Here to help me navigate the Mogel Wine. I'm Mel Gil Kristra, my master of wine, Meg Brutnon. Meg, today I am once again out to prove a point.
SPEAKER_02:Mel's Dr. Mel's scientific experiments. Mel is upset that not upset. No. But um at WST we teach that you hold the sparkling wine bottle on an angle and you twist the bottle, not the cork, and it should open with a fssss rather than a pop.
SPEAKER_01:The reason being uh in theory, it's supposed to hold in the carbon dioxide and thus you're not losing all of the air in there. You keep the integrity of the bubbles. But in the last class I taught, I said to them, look, I'm I'm an educator, but I'm also a marketer. And I was like. And I work in sparkling wine, so I need to know this. And I said, like, if you ask education technical, Mal, yeah, make it his. But if you ask marketer, Mal, I want that bubble to I want the bottle to pop, Meg. Tell me, why do I want the bubble? Why do I want people to pop the bubble?
SPEAKER_02:So joy.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, but not quite. Well. You're in a pub. You are sitting there thinking, what should I drink next? Should I have a beer? Should I have a gin and tonic? And then you hear a pop. What does that do to get the body?
SPEAKER_02:I don't think people do here. I don't think that that's true.
SPEAKER_01:It is absolutely true. I will find a study. Oh, maybe at a restaurant then. In a restaurant. In somewhere. In a bar. Yes. Let's say. Yes, somewhere nice.
SPEAKER_02:There's definitely, it is one of those things that um Or if you go to a cellar door, that's true, and you hear it open, you just kind of go, let's have some bubbles. It's like Pavlov's dogs.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Make you salivate. I don't know if everyone does this. But so I said to the class. Not everyone's triggered by a pop up champagne. Probably look, everyone listening to this podcast probably is. But I did say to the class, look, I'm gonna teach it to you because I have to, because that's what the thing says. Yes. But just so you know, no one's ever passed me a glass of champagne and I've gone, ooh, did the cork pop when you open this? That's right.
SPEAKER_02:And also once you tip it up, do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Like there's so many other variables in it. They bother making us take the time out of our day to teach it. So we are going to test it today. So that's what we're going to do. But first, Meg, what is your fun fact?
SPEAKER_02:My fun fact, well, it's our fun fact, really. Yeah. Last week, week before last, we were invited to um a seminar by the inventor of Coravan. Now, when I first looked at it, I thought, oh yeah, so what? Oh my god, I am so glad I went. Unfortunately, I missed the Fantastic Nibbles. It was at Circle, which is a uh wine bar in Melbourne, which is famous for having at least 200 wines by the glass. Um, so clearly they are big promoters of Coravan. But it was hosted by um Widamu Andrews, who's the vice president of the Smelliers Association.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The inventor of Coravan, and who I can't remember his name, but you'll know. And Katie Spain. Um was wearing the coolest shoes I've ever seen. They wear very beautiful shoes. Um and the man I mean, he he if he was into American politics, all my things would have aligned. Science, wine. He probably is. This dude is a Greg Lambrecht is was a doctor. Oh is. Is a doctor. No, I don't think he's actually a doctor. He's a medical he know he makes medical instruments. Yes. So he makes medical instruments. And so he was the person who invented when you go into hospital and they put like a catheter into your vein here, so they can add a number of different needles into it. So he invented that. Yep. He then invented, because if that wasn't enough, the central port, I think it's called, talking to my friends who have had breast cancer. So it's a chemo needle that goes in. So when you come in for chemo, they don't have to reinsert it all the time. So it just permanently stays in your body. So the science behind that, and he did talk about it briefly, trying to get it thin enough so that it wasn't going to hit any organs, but it was going to hit the right vessels to to because it has to stay in that vein or whatever. Oh. And then they can just hook up the chemo and pump the chemo through. So it's known as a central port.
SPEAKER_01:It's amazing. He's also done artificial hips and knee implants, cardiovascular stents, and a spinal implant.
SPEAKER_02:And isn't he working on that spinal thing now because of people who don't bend at their knees? He was telling us all that we were.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think they're one of the main reasons that people come in.
SPEAKER_02:And his son, did you hear him talking about his son? His son is some mega cybersecurity guru. Of course. He's probably only in his late 20s. Yeah, and that's what I actually said to him, I said clearly an underperformer. Yeah. He was it was amazing. He was uh brilliant to listen to. It wasn't too nerdy.
SPEAKER_01:So, but like the funny thing was is that he his talking about wine and by the glass, and it was all very interesting. In fact, there are probably some insights that we can share about. Um, wine by the glass is going up at an exponential rate. Particularly in Melbourne. Yeah, Melbourne. Melbourne's driving it, which is kind of cool. Like, I guess we're cultural and we want to try different things.
SPEAKER_02:The two capitals where they'd seen the biggest growth were London and Melbourne. And somewhere in Asia, I can't remember now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. But it was Melbourne and London, and I was like, oh, okay. So we kind of left that. But he just mentioned at some point, like, oh, you know, you don't you just can't drink too much as you get older. He's like, I work in medicine, so yeah, I don't want to feel bad the next day. And he just dropped it and then and then at the end, that's why I put out my hand and I was like, hi, am I missing something? What do you mean you work in medicine? And you'd missed it. I didn't realise.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that at the start. Yeah, you were late. He was talking about all the stuff that he'd done. That's so all of that stuff about the Central Port and stuff he talked about that he'd invented. But I thought how embarrassing.
SPEAKER_01:I thought they just didn't mention it.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, they mentioned it. He gave a brief praise of what he'd actually invented.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So no, I haven't been reading about it. I just remember from the talk. You are actually pretty impressive. Your brain, your memory. But for stuff that interests me. If it doesn't interest me, then you know, it's in one ear and out the other. But it was I found it absolutely fascinating. Fascinating.
SPEAKER_01:So he so but how it came about is, and if anyone listening doesn't know what the Coravin is, it is the thing that we use it sometimes if we've got nice wines, and we it's you the needle goes through the cork.
SPEAKER_02:That was the first invention, yes. And if you don't, if it's got a screw cap, you remove the screw cap and you put a a cap on it which has a little silicon bulb sort of in it that the um needle can go through.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, it um so it allows you to take some of the wine out while keeping the integrity of the packaging. So you can drink a single bottle of wine over left.
SPEAKER_02:The way it works is that it pushes argon gas into the bottle, which forces the wine up through the needle, then out through the spout into your glass. So at the same time, it's leaving a layer of argon gas, which is a it's heavier than air, so it sits over the top of the wine protecting the wine. So it's like what we do in the winery with carbon dioxide.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it's it's sitting on there, it's a gas blanket basically. But he said that when he he invented it when his wife was pregnant and he he loves wine, so he wanted to open up yummy bottles of wine and couldn't. And he said to himself, and you might have missed this as well, Well, I'm the needles guy, I should know what to do. And he started in 1999. Fire out. And in 2014 was his first release. So this man has potted away for nearly 10 years. What's that? No, it was 12. He said it took him 12 years. 12 years. Potted away with this design to get it to production and then release phase. And now he's traveling the world promoting wines by the glass.
SPEAKER_01:He's amazing. But he's still doing the medicine. Although I did kind of I felt like saying to him. So he's clearly poor. Well, no, I felt like saying to him, like, you're doing a lot of good work. Maybe leave wine alone. Like, you're doing a lot of like, go help the Kiro people. Like, no. I was like, I just he's doing such good work. I feel bad that he's putting. But my favorite part of the whole thing, right? Is he gets up at the end and he's looking out this room of like hospitality and and wine people, and he goes, Just you guys, I am I am so grateful for what you do and for your service and just thank you. And I actually like everyone was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're good. Like a little clap for us. I looked at the guy next to me and just scoffed and I was like, Did the guy who revolutionized chemotherapy just thank us for pouring booze? Yeah. Um, and then afterwards I was chatting to him and found out that he also had a role in um epidurals. So the epidural that we use today. It was at that point, thank you. I took him by the hands and I said, Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:I went through the worst eight hours, 20 hours of my life.
SPEAKER_01:So, first you got me to be able to drink nice wine by the glass, and now you are the most horrendous pain of my life.
SPEAKER_02:But just to put the two topics together today, you like the sound of the pop. Have you seen the Coravan for the sparkling one? We use it at Chandon. And?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it works perfectly.
SPEAKER_02:What about the pop?
SPEAKER_01:Um what do you mean? Does it pop? Yeah, the the one at Nah uh I think you take it off and you use a you put a different lid on. Like the Oh, I can't remember. I can't comment.
SPEAKER_02:I haven't seen one and I I can't comment on the other side. I was hoping that they were gonna pour the sparkling line or the champagne that they served at the event with it, but they didn't because clearly. They knew everyone was gonna drink. Yeah, well, I had three little glasses before I went off to teach WSCT.
SPEAKER_01:That would have been a good class. It was. Um but the other thing no, but the sparkling, yeah, so we have a twelve, which is yeah, 120 bucks a bottle. So we don't want to get to the end of the day and have to tip it out. So we did invest in a couple of the sparkling covians. And um, yeah, they're wonderful. They work really well. Yeah, they do. Very cool. So thank you for having us at that event and um it's good to go to.
SPEAKER_02:The other thing is he's now uh released a guide, a digital only, I think. So look it on the internet of um wine restaurants with wine by the glass. So he's rating them with one glass to three glasses. So you can go and if you want to say you just want to go out and ha have wines by the glass rather than a bottle, um this is a guide that you can use. Yeah. So I I because I thought the guide was a physical book.
SPEAKER_01:So I thought in our little goodie bag that we'd have something. Uh yeah, no, no. It's um I was looking it up though. It's a it's a it is cool, it's a very cool thing. Um I was saying to him that his that we'd wanted to chat about it on the podcast because we do have all these medical professionals and anethetists and stuff following. I'm like, that this is exactly the intersection of So what was his name? A corner of our readership. It's Greg Lambrecht. And do we know the name of his he's American.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Do we know the name of his uh medical instruments company? It's probably some mega thing. I'm sure all the anethetists would know. He's the needle guide.
SPEAKER_01:Um, do you know what? I think we have time today. Can we do a Am I the Wine Wanker?
SPEAKER_02:Yep, sure. Did you see that the uh BYO glasses wine wanker contacted us on Instagram? Commented on the thing saying I am the wine the wanker who takes her glasses to the Yeah, so it's not just her, it's all her friends.
SPEAKER_01:Everyone takes their own glass. And so I wrote back saying, We need pictures, please.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. I think it's nice wine, apparently.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So my one today is um it's me. Well then the answer's yes. Yeah. So um what happened was last night Claire, um, sister-in-law and her uh fiance were over and we started with bubbles. So I get out the kind of like uh wide tulip redale ones, you know, the ones that are like the newer ones? Yeah, they so they can be bubbles or sh or rose because they're kind of like a hybrid. And um we had our bubbles out of that and it was delicious. And and then, because I know they're like Riesling, we don't see them often, I'd put a 2015 Riesling in the fridge, and that was ready to go. And I got it out and I stood there looking at those sparkling glasses. I looked at them for so long, and I went, can't do it, can't do it. Oh well. And Claire goes to me, no, come on, just put the it's basically a white wine glass, just put the Riesling in there. And to be honest, have you seen the Riesling glass? Yeah, well, it's kind of I love the Riesling glass. It's not much different, it's not as narrow at the top. Well, but Meg, aged Riesling. I think if this was a new Riesling, I would have used it, but I was like, we're talking more like almost a Chardonnay, like we need a wide bowl for this. So I changed glasses, and then we finished on a tiny bit of uh red wine, and I just couldn't do it. I had to get out another glass. So we used three different glasses each. Am I a wine maker?
SPEAKER_02:Well, in this case I'm gonna say no because that's what they're there for. What is the point of having them unless you're going to use them? Like I have them and I don't use them because they the ones that I use that I should use for reds don't fit in my dishwasher. I have to physically move the basket down, which means my plates don't fit in the dishwasher, so I have to hand wash them, so I just don't I don't use them.
SPEAKER_01:Alright, we absolutely need to well. What's the point of the glasses? I'm gonna try and get some snippets of normal people to add to this episode because we need someone that's not us to be an adjudicator, because I think that's probably wanker behaviour, but you're telling me that it's not. Um we've just popped out. We've we got a I call them wine muggles. We got a wine muggle. I am a wine muggle. So, Monica, yeah, how much do you know about wine?
SPEAKER_00:Not much. I'm actually not like a huge wine drinker myself. I've just started getting into reds. Yeah. Which I'm 28, so really I should have done this a little bit earlier, I would think. But that's good age. I don't mind a wine. Like I'm obviously that's kind of the trajectory most people go, but yeah, I'm not like very well versed in wine, so I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01:I think you're a really good person to benchmark. Monica, am I a wine wanker? I don't think you are. Really?
SPEAKER_00:I think that's fair enough because I think that it's in my brain of someone who's like, again, don't know much. But I would also feel like I would feel like you need the right glass. If you have bubbles in a red wine, that's just not, you can't do that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:I actually think that's totally fine. And honestly, glasses take like two minutes to wash up. So really that bad. All right, so people are not a wide weigher.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much. No worries. Okay, so now we are getting to the point where we are going to pop these botules. Now, let us tell and show you how um how you're meant to do it.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sitting back because I reckon this is gonna go.
SPEAKER_01:So, do you want Charmat first? Charmat. So we have two different types. We have Charmat and we have method traditional. So we're going to see if either of them it's gonna make a difference. Meg, can you give a 30-second overview of Charmatt?
SPEAKER_02:Charmat, the second fermentation occurs in tanks. So you start with base wine for both production methods. You then send off to production facility uh at 10,000 litres of wine or whatever. They add more yeast and more sugar, the wine is re-fermented, so second fermentation under pressure. And then the wine is bottled immediately once that fermentation's finished, under pressure, so everything's kept pressurized so that you can keep the bubbles in there.
SPEAKER_01:So it's done pretty quickly, right? Good for aromatic. How long does this process take? Ten days. Ten days, okay. Start to finish.
SPEAKER_02:So as well. Well, apart from the base wine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, true. So, but as opposed to method traditional which takes, you know, probably. 18 months in champagne. 18 months minimum.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:So we're talking this is the quicker way, but you're still going to get some similar characteristics.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, you don't usually get as much of the lees character, that brioche character, because it's not aged on lees, it's bottled straight away. It's filtered and bottled, so there's no yeast leaves in there. And it's often used for aromatic, more aromatic varieties. So you might see Riesling in there or whatever, but it is a it is a high volume method. It's cheaper, obviously. The beauty of it is that it, you know, it's uh quick and cheap. It costs about without the booze, I've just had a quote for it,$26 a case just to get the bubbles in and the package done. So that's why it's more you these wines are more expensive than steel wines.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:But you can age your base wine on yeast leaves.
SPEAKER_01:But anyway, I'm Anyway, wait, that was more than 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, sorry.
SPEAKER_01:Here's how it goes. And I am going to look at the camera when I do this because we'll probably take this part for Instagram. Here is how you formally officially are supposed to open. Meg, why are you backing away? I'm a freaking professional. Okay. More trust, thanks. If I I don't know how much of this clip I'm putting up, but if you have been watching this clip, my hand has been on top of the cork the entire time. That is because people literally have you taken the page off. No. I was starting to. But it's even just um habit now. If I'm holding it, my hand's on top of the cork. People die from cork to the face. It is a real thing. So never ever point a bottle of sparkling wine at a person because there can be a lot of pressure in there. And if it pops off, there's three bars of pressure in there.
SPEAKER_02:It's a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's a lot. So it just don't point it at anyone. Keep your hands on it at all times. We take off the cage. I personally like to keep the cage on. Great. Give you grip on it. Yeah, give you grip. And also you don't have to do a maneuver where you're trying to swap hands to keep a hand covering the top. Cage is off, but my hand is still on the top. Now, this is the official way. My person that taught me West It back in the day said that it should sigh like a woman in pleasure. So it's a little bit off, but let's not comment on how exciting her sex life is. Bottle of 45 degrees. Bottle of 45 degrees, mate. And twist the bottle, not the cook. Twist the bottle, not the cook. Now, let me get this near the microphone. Hopefully I do it well. I wish she went hiding. Lovely. And that is how it should sound. It is actually beautiful and it's very satisfying doing it well. Um, I have seen a meme where someone was like, um, when you it's unbelieving, like, when you pop a cork, when you accidentally do it wrong and it pops and everyone claps. But you're like, but I did it right.
SPEAKER_02:I always think that it sounds a little bit let down, like you're letting the air out of the tires. Do you know what I mean? It sounds like a balloon letting the air out. It's not as I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:All right, I'll do the other one the fun way. This is how normal people do it.
SPEAKER_02:This is what I'm wearing.
SPEAKER_01:Take it off. Either way, you keep your hand on top and then just rip it. That's much more fun. Oh, we turn around.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I am going to put one in each glass, and you are going to see if you can tell which is which.
SPEAKER_02:Talk about brutal lighting. That photo is brutal lighting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know. I have so many chins.
SPEAKER_02:That one's Oh, you do not. I don't even have one. It's all just melted into. Alright. Now, what am I supposed to be telling you which is?
SPEAKER_01:You literally sparkling wine glasses. I don't even need you to go into it in much detail. Just give voice a taste and then say, Mal, this is the one where you pop the cork off, and that's the one that did the beautiful hiss.
SPEAKER_02:They seem almost identical.
SPEAKER_01:And go to come in and our video is not gonna be sorry. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, they in terms of the fizz on my mouth, they are identical.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So you can't even gun to your head, you couldn't even choose one.
SPEAKER_02:If I had to, I would say that that's the one with the No. Yeah. They are it's too hard to tell. And what I'm looking for is the amount of bubble on my tongue.
SPEAKER_01:Now, for now, you laugh at me and say I'm not very scientific, but Meg, we aren't just doing one bottle. We are testing the other way now. We are testing method traditional to see. You might say, Oh Mel, but the bubbles are made a different way. There's gonna be less pressure in those bottles, so it's not gonna work. So I want to leave everyone with no doubt that that's how it's done. No, it's the same amount of pressure because when they Well Okay, well, I guess that's the pop.
SPEAKER_02:Do I have to turn around again?
SPEAKER_01:Um, not yet.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So now we have our method traditional. Now theoretically. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeastly's aging, pr there's things called nanoproteins that are in the wine, which uh they c I think they claim remember that article we we read about the dude measuring it coming up. The line of the bead. It gives um bubbling sites for the bubbles to start from. I'm turning around now. Turn around now, yeah. Good red lip though.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I do love a red lip. Um, sorry, you can keep talking though, while you turn around.
SPEAKER_02:Um Yeah, so uh theoretically with sparkling wine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Just using a bit of science, if you do pop, you're releasing the gas faster, so it may not have time to combine two the nanoproteins to come up. But we should have used sparkling wine glasses. I should have thought about that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh well, as long as they're the same, it's comparative.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, nice wine. It could be a bit colder.
SPEAKER_01:Shend on rose, yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_02:I'll say that one, when I first took took the glass into my mouth, I could feel the carbon dioxide actually in the glass. As I guess it was released into the glass. I didn't notice it in that one. So when I went like that, I I f I breathed in the carbon dioxide, because I don't think it was actually released.
SPEAKER_01:Was it bad? No. So out of the two, what was a better experience?
SPEAKER_02:Well, that carbon dioxide would have passed off very quickly if you were serving that to someone, you know, would have just disappeared. Um again. Same, same. Same, same? If I had to, I'd say that that was the pfft.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, correct.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, just because I felt that carbon dioxide.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so you actually got the Yeah. So in a way the pop is better. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yes. Yeah, because the thing is with carbon dioxide, what it does is it it doesn't stop you breathing, but it it stop does sort of stop you tasting for a bit. So it took me a while to to click into the flavour of the wine.
SPEAKER_01:I am so glad we did this. I had a feeling we were all being wankers. I I was like, I really had a feeling that it was all bullshit. Um I know this is not a real scientific study. It's not foolproof.
SPEAKER_02:But have you spoken to anyone from Champagne since you've got a hotline to Champagne?
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe you should ask them. Because don't forget, the WC tried to teach to open a screw cap by rolling it down your arm.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god. Seriously. Oh, no wonder people think wine is pretentious.
SPEAKER_02:They love a pop with the cork. And so that that theatre had disappeared. So this is back in the early 2000s or mid maybe mid 2010s. Um, they tried to teach. There's there was actually a slide. You're supposed to pop a cork of on still wine.
SPEAKER_01:Because if it's an old bottle, it's you're supposed to ease it out so the if it's brittle, then it comes out. To be honest, there's so many other bloody factors. Who gives a shit? Seriously? Mmm, I am with you. I love you know what? I I also love the theatre of wine and I love the pop. So I'm like, can we all stop going around acting like it needs to hiss out? We look like dickheads.
SPEAKER_02:I do it simply because I'm really bad at opening sparkling wine for the pop. I was teaching sparkling many years ago in the video for the WSET. It was many, many years ago, and we were at it debauched at Domain Chandon. They gave us, they let us use the session out there. Everything that I opened overflowed. Everything. And Glenn was the winemaker there. Yeah. And he was just that's embarrassing. So he showed me, this is before we were teaching how to do it. He showed me how to do it. Yeah. And then he did Subra Sibrage. Oh. And he did a because he was actually disgorging. Yeah, cool. So yeah, it was back in the day when WSCT we we used to do it in wineries. Yeah. It was great. But anyway, uh, I think it makes absolutely no difference. And I'm with Mel. Go for the celebration and go for the pop.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Well, that is it. Uh well, get the Coravin. Well, find out how the Coravin works. Yeah, yeah, true. I will, I will.
SPEAKER_02:Um I don't need a Coravan for sparkling wine because there's no way I would never not finish the bottle.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, that's true. But hospitality, it's good for that. So we will be back with you next week. Next week we are talking about Spritz. Spritz category is absolutely exploding, and and we need to taste them all. It's huge. Everyone's drinking it. There's there's too many to taste. There are so many. Um, I keep forgetting this is like podcast lore. You're supposed to ask people to um leave reviews and follow. And like it's actually very important. Like leave reviews and follow. If you enjoy the podcast and you want to help us out in a way like we don't charge money to listen or whatever, just like leaving a review and clicking follow actually will help us be seen by way more people. It will help us so much more than you can believe. So please do.
SPEAKER_02:We're up for the Wine Communicators Awards. We've been shortlisted again, which is exciting. Not that you guys have a vote, so that the results are already in, but maybe if they look at the data, maybe they haven't decided yet. So um that'll help us. It'll help us because we've won it twice and we would love to get the try back done.
SPEAKER_01:All right, thank you. We'll be back next week. Enjoy your next glass of wine. Well
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