Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
We find out how ALDI do it - Interview with Wine Buying Director Jason Bowyer
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Ever wondered how a $12 Italian white can stand toe-to-toe with a $40 benchmark? We bring Aldi Australia’s wine buyer, Jason, into the studio and pull back the curtain on how supermarket wines can be precise, expressive, and outrageously good value without cutting corners. From the first pour, it’s clear his approach is different: start with typicity, build texture with intention, and collaborate with winemakers until the brief becomes a glass of something you want a second pour of.
We kick off with a blind Soave face-off that tests preconceptions about price and provenance—two 100% Garganega wines, both mineral, mandarin-tinged, and savoury, separated mostly by label and cost. Jason breaks down how long-term producer partnerships, large-format oak, and lees work can deliver both freshness and mouthfeel at a price that shocks. We then dive into the craft behind their Tasmanian Pinot Gris—anchored in Alsace-like texture but kept nimble—and why he’ll skip famous appellations like Chablis if the quality-to-price equation isn’t right. His value isn’t “cheap”; it’s clarity of style at a smarter price.
Red lovers get plenty to sip on too. The Heathcote Shiraz brief leans Syrah: sustainably farmed fruit, a touch of whole bunch for lift, wild ferments, and large French oak for framing rather than flavour. The result is blue-fruited, perfumed, medium-bodied, and designed to be enjoyable beyond the first glass. We also unpack Marlborough Reserve Sauvignon, built from cooler Awatere acidity and main valley passionfruit, and a Central Otago Pinot that benefits from premium parcels seeking a home—proof that careful sourcing can turn constraints into elegance.
If you’re planning a summer spread, steal Jason’s relaxed Christmas lineup: Moscato d’Asti and Premier Cru Champagne to start, mineral Italian whites with seafood, then textural whites and bright Pinot with turkey and ham. You’ll hear honest talk about blind tasting, label design, and the quiet discipline that keeps a $3.49 bottle and a $20 bottle aligned to the same standard: it has to taste like where it’s from. Like conversations that challenge your palate and your budget? Hit play, subscribe, share with a wine-curious friend, and tell us the best value bottle you’ve opened lately.
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Meet Aldi’s Wine Buyer, Jason
SPEAKER_01Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Malwick here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Malcolm Christ Always, my master of wine. Meg Brottman, and we are absolutely thrilled today to welcome Jason Boyer. He is the director of wine buying. Was that it, Jason?
SPEAKER_05The director of wine in the buying department at Aldi Supermarkets, Australia.
SPEAKER_01There we go. What a job.
SPEAKER_02And he came bearing gifts, so we love him already.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Okay, can I just set the scene? We're in Sydney. And because me and Meg are from Melbourne, we are and we walk here with our suitcases. We're like we're just pulling our arts off. And so then Jason walks in and he's carrying all of this wine and he goes, Oh, do you want to try our new Premier Crew champagne? And I said, Yes, Jason, open it right now.
SPEAKER_02And he gave us ice packs.
SPEAKER_01Oh, what a legend. I know.
SPEAKER_02Welcome, Jason.
SPEAKER_01So, yeah, Jason, what an amazing job. Can you quickly run us through what you do and how you got there?
SPEAKER_05It's an interesting story. I do have a wonderful job, and it's something I love very much. And firstly, can I say though how delighted I am to be here with you guys today? And thank you. I love the show and I love the energy and the passion and the journey that you take people on in their wine development. I just think it's fantastic. And every week I listen, and one of the things that it always reminds me of just how unique the wine world is that you continue to learn. I never stop learning. There's always something you bring up, and I think, wow, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01But that's really nice. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, onto I suppose myself. I was lucky to join Audi 15 years ago. They said to me, Look, we've got a wine programme, and we'd love you to take your experience and everything and redevelop it and what a ride it's been. I'm really fortunate to work with some great people. I've got a great people team of people that I work with and a small team, and we punch out some serious volume of wine around the country, both domestically and imported wine. It's fulfills one of my big passions, which is my love of wine.
SPEAKER_02But did you come from a buying background? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05No, I came from a selling background. Right. When I came out of university, I walked into the Lord Nelson Hotel in the Rocks, one of the oldest pubs, if not the oldest pub. And the owner of the pub said to me, Why don't you go along to a wine tasting event and tell me all about which wines you think are great? And I came back from that event and he said, What do you like? And I said, Oh, like this wine, this wine. And he said, Well, you've really got a bit of a skill for this. And one thing led to another. I had a lovely friend of mine who introduced me to two mentors of my career. One was a guy called Harry Brown, and Harry was H. G. Brown and Suns back in the 70s and 80s in the Sydney wholesale liquor market. He was also one of the individuals who put Hunter Valley semi on the market in Sydney restaurants and made it famous for what it is today. And then he introduced me to Hewan Hook. And I had a partnership of working sort of part-time on the side on my weekends with Hew and Tasting. That's right. And I did that for some eight to ten years. And then he encouraged myself to travel around the world. And this was during my career in the wine industry. And I said you've got to go overseas and you've got to travel the wine region. So, like anyone out there who's doing their W S E Ts, I would say one of the great things you can do is actually go on that journey and go to Champagne and go to Burgundy.
Jason’s Path From Selling To Sourcing
SPEAKER_02It makes so much more sense once you've actually seen it, I think. Absolutely. Burgundy, particularly because it's so parcelated, but once you see that with the road and where all the bits and pieces are, it just clicks in your head, I think. It's not you can read it on a m a map or in a book, but it just doesn't I don't think you engage the information as much as actually seeing it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and it's so true, you can read a label, but until you actually get there and you see the the site, the soil, and the beat the people, you go down into the cellars, you go and you really get to the spirit of some of these great winemakers.
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry, okay, you two. Just go to Burgundy.
SPEAKER_05Huh?
SPEAKER_01It's not easy, everyone. Just go to Burgundy. I'm sitting here being like, I can't imagine.
SPEAKER_02I'm sorry, it's optional. I do feel so you're I don't know if you've got children, but our kids are they won't never go want to go to rural France ever again because that's where they're not going to Paris and whatever. They're going to Bordeaux and Burgundy and and Barolo, and they're just like boring. We're like one day you will appreciate it. Trust us. And I don't think they will actually.
SPEAKER_05My kids have done that journey as well. Yeah, I'll share maybe a couple of stories later, but uh yeah, very fortunate to go and experience and get to see some of the things that I'm really lucky to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But following sort of those journeys, I came back to Sydney and I'd worked in the UK wine trade for three months, sending me all over the UK trade, and then back working with Hewan. And Hewan then encouraged me to go after doing sitting the Len Evans tutorial, which is the creme de la creme of wine tasting opportunities in the wine trade.
SPEAKER_01The dream.
SPEAKER_05And uh yeah, I did pretty well in that program and onwards and upwards a bit of a show judging, and uh then this job at Audi came along, and it was really taking all my knowledge from my wine travels previously and my my knowledge from actually working within wine companies. Yeah, a passion for marketing and package a passion for doing things that really deliver great value to consumers because we all love a wine bargain. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And if you can drink awesome wine, yeah, that's awesome value, that's the holy grail, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01And on that topic, the episode that came out last week was me and Meg tasting through that blackstone paddock range. And there was well, it'll come out on the video. We will have had it on the Instagram, but at one point we just looked each other with our mouths hanging open like we were in a state of shock because we did them blind against other really well-known wines, and every time we didn't get I got it wrong every time. We're like, surely this is worth double the price, it has to be that one.
SPEAKER_02It wasn't the it wasn't the price that amazed me, at the particularly with the gree.
SPEAKER_01It was the style.
SPEAKER_02I chose the much what I consider the much more commercial style as opposed to the really unxious, mouthfeeling, textural, Alsatian style, because I thought, why would Aldi do something like that, like overthinking it? And it was yours. I think I've told you my husband, because I took home the Chardonnay and the Pinot, and he the next day, he never goes shopping, drove to Aldi and bought them to show his team at work and just say this Margaret River Chardonnay and this Tasmanian Pinot, you've got to taste this. Again, not for a price, put price aside, but because and this is what I often say about Audi wines, it says what it is on the bottle. So if I'm exp imagining a Margaret River Chardonnay, that's what I would want. Tassie Chardonnay, the same. And I was saying to someone last night that one of the things that I think would be quite educational for wine regions is to actually pick the Audi wine. If you're trying to talk about wine tourism and training all your staff in a regional voice and saying to them, is this what McLarenville Shiraz is to you? And then they can all work off that.
SPEAKER_01Blackstone Range. Where did that come from? It's new, is it supposed to be doing something different?
SPEAKER_05There's always been the appetite to do a much higher end range of wines because when you shop it out, you get great value. And just because you buy a bottle that might be five dollars doesn't mean it's a five dollar wine. We're benchmarking our five dollar wines against wines that are fifteen odd dollars. Yep. And often we'll put our wines into what is sometimes a lottery, the wine shows. And do them quite well. And do quite well. Sometimes we've won gold medals in past for a$5 rose. Or actually at the moment, it's$4.59. It's extraordinary value. Yeah. So we don't look at the wines, I don't look at the wines purely on price. What I say is, how do I make a really wonderful wine that consumers are going to love that delivers stonkingly good value and makes people do a double take. Because I want that double take. I want them to do that double take when they're at home. And they pull that bottle from the fridge, they crack it, pour it in the glass, they go, I can't that value's just really wonderful. And that makes me happy because I know that I'm not actually spending a huge amount on something I enjoy having a glass of wine or not.
SPEAKER_01Are you trying to hit I imagine you're trying to hit a price point though. I aren't you looking at data and being like, all right, we definitely need to find a rose that can hit the shelf at$4.50. How do we do that?
Travel, Mentors, And Tasting Rigor
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so we'll look at data, we'll look at all the trends, we'll benchmark against the market. So one of the I suppose one of the things that I get really excited about is putting a blind line up of all the rose around that price point, and we'll put some other roses in there around the$15 price point. Yeah. And that could be any one of our wines. And then we go into the tasting, we go, okay, what's really good, what sticks out and stands out. And at the end of the day, we hope that it's ours. And invariably, because we've done all that pre-work, bench blessed blending, working with winemakers, really putting the extra 1% into the wines, and that extra 1% is not 1% of time, that's pushing the wines that little bit further every time to really take them that step forward. And then when they come up really well and you go, wow, that delivers really good value, but that's a big tick for us.
SPEAKER_02Wow. And how closely do you work with the team? Do you so when a winemaker makes a wine, they have a style in their head, which is clearly what you have when you go out looking for what you're trying to achieve? Do you have to taste like a thousand barrels to get there, or you talk to the winemaker and they say, We've got this and this, which and you're so this is what I want.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What comes first, the wine or the style in your head?
SPEAKER_05It's a combination of both. And sometimes that articulation is really quite hard. Yeah. So for example, if you go to the Barossa and I want to make a really contemporary style Barossa where it's more fruit-led, more brute blue fruits, it's not high on the alcohol, not high on the oak. Sometimes taking the Barossa winemaker to the place you want to go is actually a step-by-step process.
SPEAKER_02Do you show the winemaker a s like if you found a style that you like, do you say to them, Well, can you make this? or is that a bit rude to them, do you think?
SPEAKER_05Look, I'm sure there are some times where they go, Hey, I'm pretty good at my job. Yeah, stop telling me what to do. I think what is really very wonderful and something that I love about my job and the partners that we work with is they can see that passion and desire and aptitude to really wanting to do something well. And so they're like, Let's get on the train and let's do this and let's have a crack, because at the end of the day, Audi will give you a contract, will take the wine, and there's a bit of risk there sometimes if the winemaker doesn't do the job that I want him to do in my head, or she doesn't do, then you know there's got to be a bit of give and take in that. Um but it's a journey. So, you know, that Taszy Pinot Gris that you tried the other day. What I love about that wine is it's got all that freshness of and purity of Tasmania, yeah. But it's got these layers of flavour, so I just the texture was so beautiful, it was like savory. I and so it takes me, I'm like, am I in Alsace? Exactly having a really cracking good Grand Cru Penigree.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I'm in Tasmania as well, with all that lovely freshness and energy and supporting local industry as well. Local industry. And so when we sat down, we talked about what we wanted to achieve, and I said, I want some barrel time in this wine, I want large format oak, I want some lees, I want some texture, I want the wine to I want the wine just to really keep building in the mouth and giving more. Sometimes Penigree can be a little simple. I want something more than that. And if we're going to make a statement, this is the first year that we've released this wine, let's do it really well. Yeah. And let's do it in a way that really leans into that.
SPEAKER_01My question, and we'll probably follow on because Meg has questions in the same vein as this, but is that what an algae consumer wants? Do they want an Alsatian style Pinot Gris? Because in my head, people buying Pinot Gris from Aldi want fruit forward crisp, don't think much about it. This is a serious wine. So how does that work with the algae consumer?
SPEAKER_02I asked you the other day, are you gonna do a Barolo? No.
SPEAKER_05I'd I'm working my way up to Barolo, and it's sometimes it's like in marketing with a brand. You throw a brand against the wall, yeah, sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't. And I'm very fortunate I work for a business that gives me some leeway, and that leeway is you can have a crack, and if it doesn't work, we'll consider it for doing it again. But sometimes it takes two or three years to actually get that one to really sink and crack.
SPEAKER_01And yeah. So there's Blackstone wines, they're gonna they're$20, which is from a normal wine perspective is cheaper, but in an Audi perspective, that's probably more expensive. Is this you taking a risk?
SPEAKER_05Yes and no. The Audi consumer is the same shopper as any other shopper. If they shop at another supermarket, they shop for the same things. I think the shopper that shops with Audi really knows that there's lots of value there. They see it in their wallets. We save consumers on average$3,000 a year on their grocery bills. Wow.
SPEAKER_01And we've been a highly awarded supermarket because just the groceries, or does that include the trumpets that we accidentally buy while we're there?
SPEAKER_05Or I think uh actually sometimes your spend might go up when you buy the trumpets, but you know, you're buying the trumpets so much cheaper than anywhere else.
SPEAKER_00That's true. So you are saving more saving more and more. Yeah.
Building Value: Price Vs. Quality
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's the wines have got to do the same thing. They've got to deliver that value. Yes, we have the shoppers there, and what is truly wonderful is when I'm in store and I see other retailers who maybe work in other liquor stores and they come in and buy our wines. And we've done crazy things, so like Videca from Pullier in the south of Italy, which is a unique variety down there, but it's lovely and textural and interesting, and you get people coming in for those specialty products.
SPEAKER_01Is that like the trumpet equivalent of the alcohol section?
SPEAKER_05It is. And today I'm going to uh I'm gonna show you something that you haven't seen, is I'm going to do a tasting with you on a Suave. Again, one of my all-time favorite suaves.
SPEAKER_02I think we should do it. Okay, but do you did you want to do it blind? I would can step out for two minutes. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Meg's gonna jump out and I'll just I'll shut my eyes. But before you you can start pouring, I'm literally just talking with my eyes shut now. Before we get to it, I have to say that champagne was fantastic. How are you getting a Premier Crew champagne that that's delicious at$40?
SPEAKER_05Again, we've had a long-term partnership with a really fantastic supplier. Yeah, we do uh uh uh Baith champagne, uh non-vintage champagne in Audi is Monsigny Brute. It's it's$35 bottle, and we believe it's better than many of the commercial champagne brands. I won't say their name because I don't want to upset anyone, but it's very good champagne.
SPEAKER_01Is that popular? Does that champagne do well?
SPEAKER_05It does very well.
SPEAKER_01I every time I'm in Aldi, I see someone buying it.
SPEAKER_02On the Premier Cru champagne, is it on Lee's longer? It just seemed to have a lovely creaminess to it. Do you know?
SPEAKER_05It's 55% pen and noir and 45% Chardonnay.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_05It has 25% reserve wine into that wine to make sure that it's got the complexity that you want from uh Premier Crew. Yeah, and obviously Premier Crew sites, which uh I think if you're going to correct me, Meg, it's about 13% of champagne vineyards fit into Premier Cruise sites. So it has that, but it has the it's very much got the house style of the producer that we work with. And what I liken to it, you see some of those red fruits from the pen and wire in it, and that gives it the power and a little bit of that richness, and that's the kind of richness that you see in say a Bollinger. But I don't think it's quite as rich as a Bollinger style. I think it's just got its own style. Yeah. Lovely.
SPEAKER_03Did you have to go to Champagne to to Oh my god, you bought the thing? Okay, so we're on Suave here.
SPEAKER_01So before we do, Meg, do you want to give like the quickest of introductions to Suave?
SPEAKER_02Suave is a small region in the Veneto. The grape main grape variety is garganega, not garganega, as most Australians pronounce it. There's Tribbiano planted out there, they've got Chardonnay planted out there as well. There's some Sauvignon Blanc, the Tribano, which is quite a fat, oily, neutral grape variety and can be quite reductive. So they've started to move away from that in the the blends and try and make it more garganica. And I know that some people are using the Chardonnay and Sauvignon, which I think they use for the IGP wines over there.
SPEAKER_01So, what would we expect from a traditional high quality soave?
SPEAKER_02I get often uh powdered ginger character. It has definitely has texture to it. It is mandarin, not really stoned fruits. It's hard to think of like savory.
SPEAKER_01I always think of a minerality with source.
SPEAKER_02Pete often says green olive.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. With soave? Yeah, that's a savory type thing. So we don't know which is which here. We are just going in now and tasting both of the soaves in front of us. We won't name the brand that it's we're tasting against, but it is a very well known great soave, right?
SPEAKER_05Yes, one of the better known Probably the We're not giving it away.
SPEAKER_02We're not gonna give it away.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01Soave, it's a good quality white wine from Italy. Wine nerds love it. It's a real wine nerdy thing, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if it's done well, if it's done badly, it's not very nice at all.
SPEAKER_05Couldn't agree with you more. And I think why we leaned into making this style and going after doing something a little bit different here, is there's definitely a trend. People are looking for lighter and fresher wines. But I think there's also a little bit of trend coming back into the market where consumers want a bit of texture in a bit of mouthfeel in their white wines. So they want them to be crisp and fresh, but they also want I want a bit of flavour. I started this project two years ago, almost to the day, and uh I went over to see this producer and I said, This is my objective, this is what I want to achieve. So we made the wine on a previous vintage and we worked and we did quite a few things with the winemaker, and we looked at, yep, where do we want to hit? And then the winemaker recreated his magic uh the following year, sent me some samples and said, What do you think? And I said, I think you've nailed it.
SPEAKER_02So does all the Audi globally is it in America?
SPEAKER_05Yes, we have Audi in America.
SPEAKER_02So do they all get to go and make their own blends as well?
SPEAKER_05Or do they Yeah, so most of the wine buyers get the ability to go and procure So your own range? Your own range.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's nothing dictated by the power of Aldi headquarters. Nothing you just go play, Jason.
SPEAKER_05Look, you've got to we've it's we've got to really produce wines in Australia for the Australian market.
SPEAKER_02True. So each yeah, that makes sense. And you know that what the market wants. And it's not what the American market wants necessarily.
SPEAKER_05No, because kind of like champagne, if I'm correct and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm not. Uh I'm very polite. Um champagne can often be sweeter in America to meet the palate needs of America. Yeah. That's great in America, but that's not what the consumer wants here. Yeah, we're very lucky to be able to go and do that, have that opportunity to procure. Gosh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_01All right, this whatever.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'm going to say that the first one is the Aldi wine because I got stuck with the Pinot Greg thinking that it was the simplest style. I think this has got a lot of texture and richness to it.
SPEAKER_01It the first one has a lot of texture and richness. The second one is a bit more like mineral and lean and has that crispness and freshness. They are different styles. They're very they're different, but they're both great. I don't even I couldn't guess.
Style Briefs And Winemaker Collaboration
SPEAKER_02I'd and there's a real underlying this real apricot kernel character that I'm getting in both of them. Do you know if the what the how much garganica is in there?
SPEAKER_05100% garganica.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I say uh do we do a drum roll? You can tell me if I got it wrong.
SPEAKER_05I think the really nice thing is that you're probably looking at both wines going, okay, they're they're very similar. They are. It's hard to pick the difference. It is between the difference is$28 a bottle. Um So one is a$40 bottle of wine and the other one is a$12 bottle of wine. It's a$12.
SPEAKER_01So, you know, I'll have$3 of uh you literally couldn't tell you which I'll have three dollars bottles of the bottom.
SPEAKER_05And I couldn't either.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_05And so the Audi one is I think just it it's got more of that mineral line. So it's this one. Yeah. Yeah. And more of that tightness and freshness.
SPEAKER_02They check me again. Um you never get it right.
SPEAKER_05Which I when I looked at them blind, because I when I first received this and come into Australia, I thought, I'm gonna go and do this completely blind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I want to do exactly the same exercise we've just done today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I want to pick what I think is the best wine out of the bracket. And not knowing, and I was naturally really nervous. And I looked at both the wines, and my personal favourite was the one with the more mineral line.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05Because I love minerality and wine attention.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, me too. That's lovely and clean and fresh. But there is this the minerality in the Aldi wine is amazing. And I just such the beauty about Italy is that they're such great food wines because they have that high level of acidity.
SPEAKER_01Do you say that's$12?
SPEAKER_05$12.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And uh so cool.
SPEAKER_03You look upset by the fact that it's$12. It is so youngish.
SPEAKER_05Like in a beautiful Italian wine.
SPEAKER_01Oh great!
SPEAKER_05And that's my next question. Corte Carista. What are they? 2024. For$12.
SPEAKER_01So this is my next question, right? You go out and you find these wines and you come up with this one that matches what you want and what you think people are gonna like and stuff. And then is there a marketing department who just come up with a name for it and come up with a label?
SPEAKER_05Like that's really all that's with me and No. Part of my job is highly unique in the industry in the sense that literally we start with a concept, an idea, and we don't do the labelers. We do I don't personally use a designer. Well, but still I brief the designer, we work through packaging. My God. I work with the winemakers for every product. For every product.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. That is so cool.
SPEAKER_05I touch every aspect of the wine industry. So I do strategic, the commercial, I do winemaking, I do logistics. It's a very unique role that we have at Audi Hot.
SPEAKER_02That is amazing. Really rare skill set to have though. But I guess for you, you're sitting you sit within the whole you can look at the whole range and see how it will look on your own shelf. You do because you don't have any other competition because you are your own competition, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_05And being that having that own competition is you do a really good job on a wine label and then you look at some of the other labels, oh that looks a bit boring now. I've got to fix that. Oh god. Never ending process. It's a never-ending process to keep chasing that level of maybe pernect perfection's not the word, but you just want to keep growing the offer. Getting better. Getting better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's a beautiful package.
SPEAKER_01We wanted to tell you a couple of our favorites because we had something like five or six cases of Valley Wines arrive on my doorstep, which was really fun. My husband came home that night and sent me a picture and said, You and Meg need to get a warehouse. This is getting ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm in trouble because uh fridge is filled with wine now.
SPEAKER_01But so we we took different we divided them by kind of category, and we both just went through and chose a few of our favorites, and we thought we'd just tell you and we can talk about them. For me, Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio, I can't believe it. So both of them were from the Pinot Gris was from South of France. South of France, yep. Pinot Grigio was the Italian one. Pinot Grigio was ten dollars. That was such a good I don't even like Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio that much, but I enjoyed them so much.
SPEAKER_02But you put the gris first, I see, or is it just no?
SPEAKER_01I probably did enjoy the grit more. Once again, I didn't think I liked Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio that much because I f I do you know what I find them dull, but I didn't find the Aldi ones dull.
SPEAKER_02I love grey done with the textured Alsace and Gris, I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Grigion has a place.
Blind Soave Showdown
SPEAKER_05And a lot of people feel like that in the industry. Consumers love the freshness and the lightness and the delicacy of Pinagrigio. And I love that, and I think you liked our Pinegrigio, I think it's got a little it's got quite a bit of flavour and really talks to the typicity of Italian Venezia Pinna Grigio. The Gris, L'Espression Gris, which is$10.99, when we sought to create this one, because it just didn't exist. It's not like I don't walk into a winery and go, I'll take that tank and we'll put that into bottle and then we'll put a label on it. Yes. Let's start with an understanding of where do we think the consumer wants to be and how do we make a wine that sort of fits in that. So if you look at some grease in the market, they're sweet. Yes. And I think that's really makes it very difficult for consumers to learn what sort of nice gree tastes like. Gree should, for the listeners out there, gree should have a little bit more weight and texture about it. They're often not as racy, they're just a bit more mouth coating and warm warmer and cuddly sort of wines. Yeah. Not bad in any way, but they should have tension, frame, and length of palate. So we went with that concept of I want it to have the freshness of Pinna Grigio, but I don't want it to be fat and oily like an Alsatian Pinot Gris can be. How do we get there? So we went to south of France, we went high up into the physically into the Aude Valley, and we looked at gree sites with a winemaker and we looked at styles and said, How do we combine the two of them to make this lovely wine that people can come home and really just they can have that kind of weekly glass of wine with their partner and not feel like they've spent their wallet.
SPEAKER_02The thing that is fascinating, it is it takes more skill to make a cheaper wine look good than it does to make great grapes look good. If you are buying great Yarrow Valley Chardonnay that's grown right, it's your job just not to stuff it up. But if you're going to the south of France, not known for Pinot Gris, it really is where in that the south of France. So we're talking mainly the longer dock here, but you're going up into the hills so that you're getting some freshness and coolness. You know, you're not going down to the for the flats where it's going. Be hot and flabby and probably high in alcohol. So to do that, just the level of attention that you need to do to achieve the result that you want for the price that you want is quite phenomenal. Yeah, frequent flyer miles must be good too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they must be.
SPEAKER_02They uh they have been good in the past. Yeah, and being in the south of France, I hope it was around August or September so that you got to enjoy some of the heat.
SPEAKER_05Sometimes it's in the winter, sometimes it's in the warmer times, but since COVID hit, the travel really slowed up a bit. So but uh we do a lot of things over the online, but yeah, when we get the opportunity to travel, we really work hard. They're long days, they're sixteen, eighteen hour days, and you're literally going to as many sites as you can cram in on a trip and you jump on the plane and you just generally Yeah, because this is what I did when I was working in Europe.
SPEAKER_02I was the winemaker working with you, so I worked with Tesco's and Waitros and Sainsbury's and Hardy's and Penfolds and whatever. So they would say, I want this style. And I think I said to you when we were having a chat last week, there's only two people that I've ever met in the world that have the skills that they have. Is my old boss Angela Muir, who was a master of wine, and you that can literally look at 500 wines on a bench and then go that one, pull the three out, and then make the blend that will then go on to sell a million bottles in Waitros. It is very unique. She and her that's why I asked you about the ability to communicate because she would say to the winemakers that I was in charge of getting to that point, I want the wine looking pretty.
SPEAKER_03And it's just like um What a brief winemakers would hate that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, one guy actually said, I'm gonna swear, I'll tie a fucking bow around the tank. Like good response. Tobias Anstead, I'm gonna name check you there, bro. Um yeah, very true. So to try and communicate that to the an Australian winemaker who then had to communicate it in a French co-op or an Italian co-op was an interesting process. But I like to think that we've greased the path for you. We've made it a little bit easier from the nineties because they're used to dealing with Australians just so people know uh and renowned in from from winemaking, so let's say you're a winemaker, for the rigour that we bring and the cleanliness and the tightness, and we don't and we don't know no, that's not that's good enough. And the Europeans generally have taken a long time to come around to that kind of thinking, but I guess it's probably changed a little bit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's definitely evolved. The old world is it's got its lovely merits and as does the new world, but we've all got areas that we can definitely grow on. Yes, you were saying while whilst I was listening to you were talking, and uh it made me think of something not to go back to the Blackstone wines, but the Chardonnay, the Blackstone Chardonnay that you've had. You know, people say to me The Chardonnay Chardonnay. They go, When are you gonna do a Chablis? When are you gonna put Chablis into store? And I desperately have wanted to do that over the recent years, and then some of the more recent vineyards of Chablis, I go, yeah, they're just okay.
SPEAKER_02They're just and the prices are extortionate.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And I'd rather say Can't buy a bottle of Blackstone Chardonnay, because it's got that mineral line and everything like that, and it's got texture and it's got flavour and it's got beautiful wine making in it. And you can buy six bottles or four bottles of that Chardonnay to your one bottle of Chablis, and you're gonna get a better wine.
SPEAKER_01That is absolutely so much integrity in that to say, even though I know it would sell, I'm not putting our stamp on it because it's not gonna be good enough. I really respect that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, we don't want to put stuff in stores that we don't think passes the the real test.
SPEAKER_01Good on you. That's amazing. Okay, I have one more that I want to call out that I'm gonna then I'm gonna let Meg do a couple of her favorites. But I also wanted to call out the truly wild Heathget Shiraz, which is$14. I was look, I notoriously don't drink Shiraz. I was a wine ambassador in my younger years, and I drank way too much Australian Shiraz when I was doing it. And I just I can't drink anymore. But that wine, everyone else poured them, I was with a group and everyone else poured themselves a glass first, and they were all talking about it. And so I was like, okay, I'm ready, call me this Shiraz. And I was like, I looked up and I was like, this is textbook. Like I if I was to buy Heathkit Shiraz, I to get a bottle that good, I would expect to spend 30 bucks at least. And so for$14 to have that kind of like balance and seamlessness, but also like bright, really bright blue, lovely perfumed fruit was really cool to find in that bottle.
SPEAKER_02Without being an exhausting wine, that's the thing with Heathcote can be you want one glass and then yeah, it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't heavy.
SPEAKER_05You absolutely nailed the brief for the winemakers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Pinot Gris And Pinot Grigio Rethought
SPEAKER_05I work with two wonderful young small producers, but they both sort of work together. They're two wonderful people, and I gave them exactly that brief. And I said, one of the trends we're seeing is consumers don't want high alcohol, they want more medium-bodied charas. Some would say that Syrah or Roan style. I want to push it more that direction. And I said, let's talk about how we make do that. These two boys went out and selected vineyards. So one of the vineyards that we source from is organic. Oh wow. The other two are sustainably farmed. Um and then I said, Look, you know, I kind of want to do something just a little quirky. Let's do something for the Soms out there. Let's look, let's put a bit of whole bunch into the wine. Ah. Because I just don't want to make it sort of commercial either. Explains a freshness.
SPEAKER_01It explains, yeah, it had a beautiful perfume.
SPEAKER_05Like it was wild yeast, so we take a bit of a risk. Jesus did not use it. Yeah, we did.
SPEAKER_02It's how much is it like$11, isn't it? Or$14.
SPEAKER_05We put in large oak. Large French fright French oak. Wow. But we don't want a heavy impact of oak. We want no fruit. And I one of the things that I learned early on in my career, I had a lovely discussion with a guy called Jeff Weaver down the Adelaide Hills when I was doing my Adelaide wine marketing course. And he showed me a wine that was 14 days old that he'd been sitting on his bench at home. And the wine still looked amazing. And I thought, why is that wine not oxidative? And it occurred to me at the time that you put good fruit into wines and you do the right wine making, those wines will sit open with their and sometimes they can last that two weeks, but invariably good wine will last probably five to seven days without showing much oxidative character. And I knew I was coming on the show and I thought, oh, I'm just gonna have a look at that truly wildly Shiraz to refresh my memory of it. And uh opened it and had a couple of glasses, and then I went back and had a look at this morning it had been open for three days, and the wine was just even looking even better because it had the benefit of just having some oxygen to it. Wow. It just really softened, mellowed, it had all the things that you had in your brief. Uh and uh that's when you just go, high five guys.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, big high five mystery man behind this tries, high five. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Mine. All right, I'm gonna tell say what I liked. I like the Monsignor Brute Champagne, the Fray and Jules Waterval Reasoning, both of which I have actually spoken about before on the podcast. So the two that really stood out for me were Kaora Bay, Reserve, Mulber Sauveignan Blanc. And my question was, which is$12.99, what's reserve about it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's a great question.
SPEAKER_02I always because in Europe reserve has a connotation. That's a good question. But you have the Neave, which I famously just adore for eight dollars. So reserve, it is more textured, I have to say, and it's not so people know it's not in this green asparagusy spectrum. It's definitely riper. It reminds me of when I very first tasted Cloudy Bay in 87, the very first year it was released, and that beautiful passion fruit richness, the way that Sauvignon Blanc should from the region should taste. So is it that it is riper? Does does the reserve mean riper for you or aged in a bit of oak? Or I was just intrigued to know. Or is it just denoting a better quality?
SPEAKER_05Well, denotes a better quality, it is really largely fruit sourcing and what we do with the wine in the winemaking side of things. So that is a blend of Main Valley or a Valley fruit, but it's got a high portion of Arvateri fruit. So for the listeners who don't know where the Arvatari Valley is, it's the would you say the south side of the Wither Hills, which sits adjacent to the main valley in the Marlborough. It's cooler, so it's two to three degrees cooler. So the wines tend to have more of that mineral sort of backbone. You get pink grapefruit flavours, it's they're just tighter, more well framed. So that's the engine room for the power of that wine, and then we get that passion fruit element out of the main valley, and we just want the wine to have a bit of texture as well.
SPEAKER_02So it's not Yeah, because often at that price point, I'm thinking of one wine in particular, it is very acidic, it's very green, they've added a little bit of that sub-threshold sugar to to knock back the acid. I took around to a friend of mine who buys a very well-known brand and showed it to her and said, This is what Sauvignon should be like, and she actually agreed that yeah, it was a riper style and just easier for her to drink. So she can go to Audi and buy it now. The other one I love was the Kaura Bay Central O'Targum Pinot. Now, Central Otago it's getting better, but it sometimes can borderline on that dry red character. I noticed this was a 2022, so it had a little bit of age on it, but it had just a beautiful plushness about it. There was a little bit of earthy almost to it. I don't know whether that was an age character. I got it more on the nose than I did on the palate, but we actually had it with some duck that we we bought the duck pancakes in from the Chinese restaurant. It's classic matching, very boring, I know. But I did I thought that was a great one here.
SPEAKER_05You got a little sneak peek of that wine because it's uh due to come out probably in the new year. Okay. Um and uh we have quite a solid program with a very good winemaker in Otago who does a lot of winemaking for a lot of smaller wineries. So one of the interesting facts about our wine is we get access to some really good material, often at very inexpensive prices, because this winery or this maker, if some of the wineries don't need some of their really good fruit, and I'm talking 60, 70, 80 dollar Otago Pinot's, some of that fruit ends up in our blend.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Because it would have no other home otherwise.
SPEAKER_05It's got no other home. So it gets the benefit of some really good stuff in there. And we also it's large, it also has a bit of whole bunch in the winemaking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you can see that on the I noticed on the palette.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Freshness and French oak. It gets like all the tricks that you want. And again, under$20 and$16 or$17. Yeah, finding good Pinot under$20 is a it's a It's almost impossible.
SPEAKER_02I don't know how you do it, particularly from a target, because a target fruit's not cheap, but if it is that, and from my with my sustainability hat on, otherwise that fruit will literally be left on the vine and the grower would have no home for it, wouldn't get paid for it.
SPEAKER_01So we've given you our favourites. What would you put in there that you really love and feel proud of that we haven't mentioned?
SPEAKER_05We've got Christmas coming up.
SPEAKER_01Yes, tell us.
Crafting Affordable Elegance
SPEAKER_05How about I just talk to you a little bit about what Christmas Day looks like, uh, what kind of wines I have on Christmas, because you know, the best part about sharing wine is sharing it with family and friends. So I'll start my morning with a little glass of Muscata Dasty with some fruit, and then I'll start preparing lunch and start to pull out the wines that well, I've already pulled them out a few days before, but I'll pull out the wines that I want to drink on Christmas Day. So this Christmas will be Mascata Dasty, and then we'll have some premier current champagne to start with. Then we'll go to Suave, the Corte Christas Soave with a bit of seafood, oysters, maybe some prawns, classic Aussie Christmas.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but good stuff.
SPEAKER_05We don't need to mix it up. We go with the freshness and let the wine do the talking with those foods, and then we start to get a little bit more serious. I want something with a bit more texture and frame about it because we're starting to move into more of those meats and things like that. So we'll have a blackstone shardy, Penigree, that'll be the call of action this year, and then we'll have a couple of roses. And the roses will go with the tadducken. Um wow. Yeah, so we do a terrific um tady, it's um amazingly popular at Audi. But it's already done. It's already done. So for those that don't know what a tadduckan is, it's a turkey, it's a duck, and it's a chicken all in one.
SPEAKER_01I thought that was a joke. I didn't know that was a real joke.
SPEAKER_05It's a real thing.
SPEAKER_03It's in Friends, I thought it was a joke. And you can buy it in Audi.
SPEAKER_05You can buy it in Audi, and this year we've got it wrapped with a bacon lattice. It gets even better. So you don't have to spend all that time doing that preparation.
SPEAKER_01What's that? So straight in the oven. So it's turkey, duck, chicken, yeah, and pig.
SPEAKER_02Bacon, everything's better with bacon.
SPEAKER_01So that wanna ask how it's all in one.
SPEAKER_05No. Okay. But that's gonna go with a side of salmon that I get from Howdy, and that's it's Australian sorry, it's a side of salmon that's got a cranberry glaze, citrus glaze on it. And it's just that's kind of like one of the centrepieces of the Christmas table. But again, I'm just taking the complication out of Christmas Day because I actually want to spend time having a glass of wine with my family and friends. And then we might have a Pinot. Um Pinot and Turkey.
SPEAKER_02I d I'm not a fan of, but Pinot it makes turkey somehow taste better. My brother-in-law, we have to cook turkey, and then he's the only one who eats it. It's crazy. And you can't there's no small turkeys around there. But I think Oh, there's no Aldi in New Zealand, is there? No.
SPEAKER_01Can I give you my theory? Well there you know how we talk about the three C's of pairing, which is like contrast, cum complement or complete, and it's really hard to complete what you're like the food with a wine. I think that if you get a really cranberry fruit forward Pinot, it can almost act as the missing ingredient if you don't you almost don't need cranberry sauce if you're drinking it with a really fruit-forward peanut.
SPEAKER_02I find San Giovese can do that sometimes too. Yeah. It can add there's that finishing touch to your food. Sorry, we interrupted your Christmas Day.
SPEAKER_01I have to assume, Jason, you must be pouring small tastes because you've gone through a few words here. You're right.
SPEAKER_05We're talking over a long period of time during the day. Yeah. Big family gathering as well. Big family gathering. Yeah. And now the ham's out, and that's the centrepiece of the table. And we've got Pinot, and then everyone's getting a little jaded by now. So it's really we're very relaxed tone. Presents come out, and we've had lunch, and sort of thing, people my my family and friends will say to me, Ah, look, go down the cellar and grab something and show us something a little bit different close to home. So I'll try and find something from maybe my young adult kids. I'll try and find something from their birth year. They were born in 2004 and 2006.
SPEAKER_03Well, so were mine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. There you go.
SPEAKER_05And then I'll go, hey, look at this. And they're really coming into their wine journey now. There is a wine for everyone out there, you've just got to find that place. That's right.
SPEAKER_01All right. Gosh, that's your Christian state. Look, we are so over time, so we are gonna have to wrap this up. Is there anything that you wanted to tell us today, or anything else that you wanted to share before we do?
SPEAKER_05Oh, look, I think we've covered so much. All I would say is I'm very gracious to be able to sit here in front of both of you and to talk about wine because uh, you know, I love your passion and energy that you give out every week. And my farewell message is just thank you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, pleasure. And I just want to say, I asked you the other day, how do you get your message out about your wines? You know, you do you do some wine shows, um, you're doing a podcast, obviously, but how else are you communicating, you know, the quality of the message, or do you just let the wine talk for itself?
SPEAKER_05The wine, unfortunately, has got to talk for itself.
SPEAKER_02You don't have anyone in the like the wine store. It's not like if you go into other wine shops, you've got you can ask someone, but there's no one there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, look, all I would say is my job is to make sure that everything on the shelf is good. And whether you're starting at$3.49 or at$20, it's got to be good. So if you want to maybe do a little challenge to your friends, that's fun. Maybe take a little$3.49 Shiraz, put it in a decanter, serve it up to your friends, don't tell them what it is and see and see if they actually pick at price point because invariably they won't.
SPEAKER_01$3.49.
SPEAKER_05$349.
SPEAKER_01You're backing a$3.49 bottle right now.
SPEAKER_05I'm backing a$3.49 bottle. Call me crazy.
SPEAKER_01What's the label called?
SPEAKER_05Precious serve.
SPEAKER_01All right, me and Meg are going home and that's like the first thing. We're gonna go buy out right now.
SPEAKER_02I like the decanch idea because it can be tricky and Okay, I think what we're gonna do, Megan and I, we're gonna pop on our Instagram.
SPEAKER_01I reckon if either of us went into Aldi now and we were gonna choose six bottles, we'll put up what our picks would be based on everything we've tried. Because gosh, there's a few that completely stand out for me as just amazing, and I'm gonna be raving about them. And I think all of our listeners are gonna be running to Aldi, to be perfectly honest, after this episode. Thank you so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Jason, for making the effort. Yes. Come down to this tiny little hot box of a studio that we've rented. Absolute pleasure.
SPEAKER_01No, it's genuinely findings out. Awesome. Well, thank you for being with us. Um, we will be back with you next week. But until then, enjoy your next glass of life and drink well.
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