Wine News: How Hedge Funds, Record Exports, And Troye Sivan (?!) Are Shaping Australian Wine

We break down why hedge funds are shorting Treasury Wine Estates in plain language, explore how Victoria Wine posted a record year, and unpack Penfolds’ culture pivot with Troye Sivan and the switch from the Australian Open to F1. We close by mapping the new logic of event sponsorships and what authenticity now means for wine brands.

• How short selling works and why TWE is targeted
• Luxury strategy under China headwinds
• Why Victoria’s wine contribution hit records
• The role of exports, trade fairs, and funding
• Authenticity versus prestige for younger drinkers
• Penfolds x Troye Sivan collaboration strategy
• Shifting from AO/Melbourne Cup to F1 to reach new audiences
• De Bortoli at Melbourne Cup and brand stretch
• Sponsorship ROI, ethics, and audience fit
• Teaser for goon versus bagnums next week

Tune in next week for Goon Versus Bagnums!

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Transcript

Hellos, Shout‑Outs, And Community

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hi and welcome to wine with Meg and Malwiki to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Mel Gil Chris, I'm joined by Master of Wine. Meg Bron. I was literally went to say Mel Gilchris, and my brain was on repeat, and I was like, did I already say my name? No, sorry, Meg. Thank you. I'm here. Hi.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

It's not a clone, you're not looking in a mirror.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Although people say um names. People call me Meg all the time.

SPEAKER_05 0:35

Well, last night I did an event with Arch Insurance, and the woman that was introducing me and was sort of the MC was Mel. Oh my goodness, that's it. And she wasn't a listener, but I said, Oh, that's maybe it's Megamel. And like the people that listened, because clearly someone listened that approached us initially. Um, she said, Oh, it's Megamel. It's very funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

So we actually are, we should probably say that we're available for things like corporate events. So reach out if you're interested.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

It was for International Women's Day. That was such a great bunch of women and lovely Champagne. Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Well, I have one more shout-out that I need to do because Meg, do you remember that adorable group of people? We put it on our Instagram last year. It was like a whole group of people sitting around listening to our podcast. Oh, James. I met in Island. Yes. So he was part of the group, but it's like led by a small group. It's it's actually mainly a chick who leads it, but he was just like part of it. And they have exploded. So I mean, like, they're not just a group of friends who sit in someone's house now. They are like, not enough people are relating to wine in a meaningful way. So they've gone away from just listening to wine with Megan Mal, which is probably a good, it's probably a good move. I support it. They have a WhatsApp group. They invite in anyone who is interested to wine. Apparently, there's, I think they've got a couple of hundred people. Holy crap. They're called Apartment Six Wine, or if you're looking for them on Instagram, it's like apartment, so APTNO.6. They do events, and from what I can tell, they're not even trying to make money out of it. They are literally just looking for like cool, like-minded Melbourne who want to drink wine with them. Isn't that the coolest thing you've ever heard? They're like young and cool and fun, and so like and know their stuff a little bit, I'm assuming. Yeah. Well, I mean, they listen to our smoke. So they would be very well in plug. But it's like if you're someone who lives in Melbourne and loves your wine and is feeling a bit like, oh, it sucks that I don't have people to talk about wine with. Like I'd I'd love a group of people to taste with. Check these guys out because they do, I think it looks like they do monthly events. It doesn't look particularly expensive. It actually just looks like a really, really nice community of wine lovers. Fun. I know. I know, and they like us, so we they must be great.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

So modest.

Setting The News Agenda

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Okay, so we have an episode of an episode, an episode of wine news today. Here is what we've got. TWE, otherwise known as Treasury Wine Estates, the more like luxury, big corporate to-do with wine in Australia, has faced pressure on the stock market. I don't really understand uh half of the words or how it makes sense. So I've asked Meg to explain it, although she is Margot Robbie in the bathtub in the big short. Next we have Victoria's wine industry having a record year, which is confusing to me because we don't shut up about the wine industry having a hard time. So Meg's going to explain that one. Uh Penfolds has partnered with Choice of Vaughn. We're going to go into what that means. And then I just kind of want to have a chat about all the big, significant activations that happen in Melbourne and Australia. And what are the wine brands supporting?

SPEAKER_05 3:58

You need to describe what an activation is, Mill, because that's fair. It's a marketing term and it just means an event.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah. So there are these huge major events in Australia. I think Melbourne Cup, things Grand Prix, tennis. So let's get started. Meg, can you please get in this bathtub? We've just run the bathtub for you. It is full of bubbles. Here is your glass of champagne. You're in. You've stepped in, slash lash. Well, good to go. Legs up. Can you please

Hedge Funds Shorting TWE Explained

SPEAKER_01 4:42

explain? Now, the thing is, TWE has faced, so Treasury Wine Estate has faced pressure on the stock market with hedge funds short selling its shares. Explain.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Short selling is a trading strategy where investors profit from a decline in an asset's price. Makes sense? No. Investors borrow shares, sell them at the current high price, and aim to buy them back later at a lower price, returning them to the lender to pocket the difference. This high risk technique is used for speculation or hedging, hence the name hedge funds, with potential for unlimited losses if the price rises. Are you clear? No. Okay, so basically what they they see that the shares are going to decline in price. So they buy them at a high price.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Wait, who?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

So TWE buys.

SPEAKER_05 5:39

No, no, the hedge funds. The hedge funds.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Investors buy TWE shares.

SPEAKER_05 5:44

They borrow shares.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

Right? So they say to you, hey Mel, you've got a a thousand Treasury wine estate shares. Can I have them? I'm going to sell them at the high price at the moment. I know that they're going to drop. I'm then going to buy them back and give them back to you because I've borrowed them from you. It's like borrowing 10 bucks from you, going to the races, putting it on the races, taking the 10 bucks, giving it back to you, and taking the 20 bucks. Oh, wow. And this is what happened. Watch the big short. Because Margot Robbie, even though she's not as attractive as me, does a better job of explaining. And Anthony Bourdain's in it as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Okay, so then what does this mean? What does this mean for Treasury Wine Estates? And then therefore, what does that mean for Treasury?

SPEAKER_05 6:33

Hedge funders, the predict that Treasury stock is going to drop.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

And is that indicative of the whole Australian market or is that indicative of Treasury?

SPEAKER_05 6:42

Treasury's in a sort of an interesting position. I mean, they are trying to reposition themselves as a luxury brand, which I think they've been pretty successful with. I think they've been very good. I think, and this is no discredit to them. Market forces at the moment are just against them. China, which was one of their biggest markets and that very luxury-branded market, is drinking it's 30% less than it was. And there is quite a lot of political pressure not to splash your wealth around at the moment in China. So I think Treasury's just been caught in this perfect storm. And I personally congratulate Treasury for repositioning us as a really iconic luxury brand. I think someone needs to do it and they've got the cash. Well, they had the cash. They've got the cash and the backing and the knowledge to do it. So at the m the moment I just think it's it's really tricky. You know, everyone's talking about it at this event. I did last night, a woman came up and said, What's going to happen to Treasury? Because these are underwriters for insurance.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

And so they're obviously interested in this whole Treasury is a really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

If you understand finance. Yeah, it's a really interesting one to fill. I don't understand finance well, but I I try with Treasury because the moves they make and stuff, it's all to do with the stock market and the hedge funds and stuff. And yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 8:02

It's gambling, it's but it's hedging your bits. That's where the hedge fund comes from. So I say to you, you've got 10 bucks. Can I take it? I go and bet on a horse at the races. Not guaranteed to win, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to. Then I just give you the money back, but I pocket that profit.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Hedge funds are looking at the market and shorting the stock. They reckon that treasury is going to not do well.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

To drop.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

They're betting on treasury stock dropping. Yeah. It's like we're we're having a poker game. Are you gonna up your aunt or your debt, you know, or lose. That is actually so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

That was a good one to cover. I didn't understand that at all. When I was like researching what we do for Wine News, I was like, I hope Matt can explain this to me. I'm Margot. You did a good job, Margot. Thank you. You can get out of the bathtub

What Shorting Signals For Treasury

SPEAKER_01 8:51

now.

SPEAKER_05 8:51

And get get onto the moors with uh Jacob El Audi and Heathcliff. Yeah, have you seen the book? Would not mind being there. Oh, it's a toxic film. I mm anyway. Yeah, okay, book. They've they've sanitized it a bit wee bit. But anyway, it's a toxic story.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

I I'm trying so hard not to get distracted because all I want to do is talk about Wathering Heights now, but I shan't. Have you read the book? I try.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Okay, so do not so boring. Do not talk to me until you've read the book. I watched several YouTube analyses explaining the book with cartoons.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Although you can watch the like the movie from like the 1939 or something, and that actually has the level of toxicness that it should have. It's been a little bit millennialed.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah, well, she said that. I don't think she's a very good idea. But it is an interpretation. It's an interpretation, exactly. Anyway, okay. It's an asshole. Our next story Victoria's wine industry has a record year contributing 10, over 10 million? Billion? Billion. Billion to the economy. This is confusing because I don't feel like tourism has been that good. I don't think things have felt like that I have been that good. But so this is just why I wanted to talk about it. What's going on? What is this?

SPEAKER_05 10:06

I mean, I haven't seen the breakdown of the where the income revenues actually come from, but my guess is it's probably exports. And this speaks to the power of promotion. Wine Victoria has been given a lovely chunk of money from the Victorian government, and they've spent it really wisely promoting Victorian wine. So they co-funded Van Expo, so Victorian Winery stands at Van Expo. They've just co-funded it Wine Paris. Van Expo is weak now? Where's that? Van Expo is either it used to be in France, but it's there's Van Expo Asia, so it's in Singapore or Hong Kong. So it's in Hong Kong next year. It was in Singapore last year. So it's just, I think I haven't seen how the breakdown is, but I personally think that they have done such a great job promoting Victorian wines and getting Victorian wines involved that we're seeing sort of payback. And Dan Sims, Stephanie Dubudan, or we no one knows how to pronounce your name, Steph, if you're listening. She's the CEO, and Dan Sims is the chair. And they're just really vocal about Victorian wines. Dan is a very well-respected man, Pinot Palooza. He's done a lot, you know, around the fires and he knows how to run events and get people interested. And we need that. And so I think we are seeing the investment from the Victorian government in investment wine and the management of that by Wine Victoria pay off.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Are you saying that marketing works? Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

You know, I work with a uh have been working with an agency recently and they're constantly saying sips on lips. Well I don't love the term. If we can get our wine in front of people, it converts.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

And when we spoke about the episode of what Australian Grape and Wine has outlined as the River Land needs to be able to survive, one of the things is a chunk of money for this sort of thing, for advocacy. That's right. Yeah, and for yeah, marketing, for convincing people to drink their stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

You know, and Victoria, we we have the uh a huge number of GIs and such, I hate no you hate the term, but such diversity within the state. I I personally think that that's what it is. And personal wine, like individual wineries, obviously getting behind that, but having that support from our state body and our regional bodies advocating for funding and speaking with one voice. The thing I like about Wine Victoria is it's while no one knows Victorian wine and they recognize that, yeah. They have to say, but we've got Yarrow

Victoria’s Record Wine Year Unpacked

SPEAKER_05 12:41

Valley, we've got Gibson, we've got you know Meldura, we've got all these different regions, and so yeah. Cool. Congratulations, people.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah, no, we love that. We love a little bit of good news. Okay, uh, Pen Foltz, Pen Foltz has partnered with Troy Savanne on a creative collaboration. When I mentioned this story to you this morning, what did you say, Meg? I'm handing the microphone over now to you can't hand it, it's joint to something. So Meg said, Who is Troy Savan? And I went, Austin is the exact target market uh for this, and I knew that he would know. So, Austin, take it away. Please explain who Troy is.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Look, a little background on Troy. We we love him here in Melbourne. Um, but he was uh a YouTuber back in the day, one of the old school uh vloggers, and then who made who transitioned into music in around like 2013 with what was the little happy happy little pill? Was that his first song?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

If you're looking at me, I don't know. I know who he is, I don't know very well.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Great music. And then since then his music's doing really well, and he just recently went on tour with Charlie XEX. So there you go. That's your background on Troy.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

So importantly, I think, would you say authenticity is one of the big markers?

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Uh yes, I would. Being true to yourself, absolutely. That's all.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, I think being true to because is he LGBTQ?

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Yes, very proud.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Is he gay?

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

He's queer in some way. And I think he is very, yeah, proud and shows that authenticity really well. And I think perhaps, this is my theory, that is what Penfolds is missing with younger consumers. They aren't seen as authentic.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

It it is quite a jump for Pen Folds to choose someone like him. Is this a is this a a new direction that they plan on going? Because I would just associate Pen Folds with old blogs talking about cricket. Am I fucked?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

I mean, but exactly. No, Pen Folds has done a really, really, really good job with sort of like the older type like generation and people who moved through before see them as really prestigious and stuff. But now we have these new consumers coming through, the millennials, and definitely Gen Z. They aren't into prestige in the same way, they're into authenticity. And I would bet so much money that that is why they have engaged Troy. And I would also bet in a segue to our next thing that we're gonna chat about, is that Penfolds has stepped away from the Australian Open where it has been for the last what five years or something? And it is now with the F1. Now, tell me what is cool about the F1 now? Like, why is F1 resonating with young people now?

SPEAKER_05 15:17

You watch the show. Drive to Survive.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Drive to Survive. Yeah, Drive to Survive, that show has increased female viewership extraordinarily. It has increased young people's viewership extraordinarily.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Yeah, shout out Morgan. All my partner's friends now watch Drive to Survive and are so excited for F1.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

And it has taken where tennis is still seen as like old school and like you have to wear white, and there's always still controversy about what the players wear and all this kind of stuff. And Wimbledon, where it as F1 is seen as authentic because they have cameras in all the lockers' rooms, you know everything about every driver. It's seen as young and cool and still expensive. Do you know a GA pass is $150 just to get to the F1? So it is young, cool, authentic, and bougie money, which is Troy Silvan and is F1. And that is why Penfolds has left all its old things and why you're seeing it show up where it is. In my opinion, this is just my analysis. What do you recommend?

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Yeah, look, I agree. I think And thank you, Austin, for jumping in. Yeah, thank you, Austin, because uh I I don't know. I find the I I I think the queer tilt on it and more lean towards that authenticity of of you, because I think if you're talking only to that segmented queer market, it's very, very small, whereas it's it's it's got to be broader than that for them. Yes, and so I think it is that authentic kind of market. It's it's a really interesting pivot from what is, as Austin said, a fuddy-duddy old, you know, old man brand. I think it's a watch this space because I don't know that the styles of wine deliver on what.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah, it's a cab Shiraz. The the the wine they've let out with him is a cab Shiraz at $120. Like, I can't believe it's not a Grenache or something.

SPEAKER_05 17:07

Exactly. That's what I've would worry me if I was uh running that campaign. I would have gone with a sparkling or something.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

I think they're gonna be careful where they put this campaign. I don't think they're gonna put it somewhere where their current drinkers will see it. I think they're gonna really isolate it to the people that they want to see it to be able to like nurture that up-and-coming audience who who could be Penfold's drinkers in the future.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

Can I just ask, how old is he?

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Oh, 29,30.

SPEAKER_05 17:38

I don't know, 2013, yeah. He's in his 30s. Yeah. Early 30s. Yeah, that's I mean it's good to be it to be looking at people in different mediums.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

He's Australian as well. I don't know if we said that.

SPEAKER_05 17:48

Melbourne?

SPEAKER_02 17:49

I think he's from WA, but he moved to Melbourne.

SPEAKER_05 17:52

Of course, smart man. He's got Melbourne vibes.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

I saw him in Pereira Market last week.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Oh, he's also And you say what you kept Charess like, Mike?

SPEAKER_02 18:00

I didn't, I admit if only I knew.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

He's also into art and stuff, so like his own art designs are on the bottle. Easy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

No, he's a real icon in the

Marketing That Moves Wine

SPEAKER_02 18:10

space. Like, yeah, he really is. Yeah, I think people will respond to this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

It's an interesting direction for it. Yeah. They got the money to do it. Yeah, no, and I'm really interested to have a look more, see how it turns out, and kind of, yeah, watch that space because I think it's a cool collab, to be honest. Okay, um the last thing that we're talking about is the different activation. So we spoke about F1, is now Penfolds. Jacobs Creek is back with AO. They were with AO for ages. Australian Open, then they left and now they're back. And then all of a sudden, Melbourne Cup, which also used to be Treasury and like Penfolds and no, like Wolfblast and stuff, is now deborderly. There's so much shakeup, and all these old long standing wine collaborations in events have all been moved. Meg, what is your take on all these different brands inhabiting new spaces in our iconic events?

SPEAKER_05 19:11

I think it's interesting because the discretionary spend that wineries have now is so limited. You have to to buy a pen these days, you have to justify it. Yeah. De Borderleys is an interesting one. It is so interesting. Because where does DeBorderley's if I say De Borderleys to you, where does it sit? Now, for me, as a Yarrow Valley person, it sits in the Yarrow Valley. But possibly Australia wide it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

No. It would tend to What do you think, Austin, when you hear De Bordley?

SPEAKER_05 19:39

Okay, that's good. No, it's from Griffith originally.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, I think a lot of people think of Good when they hear De Borderly.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

Yeah. A lot of a lot of cask wine, they've got a Dean de Bausley, very cheap, lower-end wines. But for me, it's in the Yarrow Valley with Steve Weber and Leanne DeBorsley.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

People who are from the Arrow Valley or know the Yarrow Valley think of it as a higher quality, really nice wines, but it yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:04

But we're also aware that they do, you know, a range of different wines, not always out of the Yarrow Valley, but they are great proponents for the in fact, they were our Hall of Famers. Oh, Leanne and Steve. Or Leanne Deborch, Lee and Steve Webber were their Hall of Famers last year. But I just it's interesting because it it does, it will be able to cross all markets because it'll have that premium Yarrow Valley feel. And then if people this is Melbourne Cup, yeah, let's face it. Am I gonna say it? Cashed up bogans.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Oh not what I was gonna say, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

You know, there is a huge range of demographics across the Melbourne Cup. Yes. There are people in the inner circle with their multi-million dollar horses, and then there are people in the car park.

unknown 20:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:49

So it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

I also think that back even not that long ago.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

But also good to see a family-owned winery doing it.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Literally five years ago, I think. Let's also explain that to be part of these events, you are spending money, you're not making money. Doesn't matter how much wine you sell there. Well, no, I have one exception that I talk about, which is actually F1, the year that anyway. But generally speaking, well, generally speaking, yeah, you're not making money. You're not making money if you go do these events. Even selling markets. It's uh above above the line.

SPEAKER_05 21:22

Above the line. Above the line. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Yes, it's it's marketing. It's you're spending money, and the whole idea is all eyes are on this event and you're associating yourself with

Penfolds x Troye Sivan Strategy

SPEAKER_01 21:30

it, and it's better than putting up a billboard, which also you lose money on in theory, but because but you do it for the brand exposure. I think the buy-in to be present at Melbourne Cup is much lower than it used to have been because of all the controversy with the Melbourne Cup nowadays.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

Because of the horses?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah, so dying? If influencers like attend it, they get like trolled on social media. Oh. Yeah, yeah, because people are like, you must hate animals. So if things are shifting, there is a whole Well, what about Grand Prix and the environment? Uh people care less. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

It's more of a existential threat than there's a less clear direct line between F1 and seeing the damage it does. So I've got sitting around with your family and watching a horse get shot maybe.

SPEAKER_05 22:23

Yeah, yes, I agree. And seeing the horse fall down in the first, you know, 100 metres and you know that the horse is going to die. It is pretty horrific. And I agree, horse racing is it's a brutal sport. But globally, there's still a lot of money there. Because that's the thing. I mean, we can look at that, but the Melbourne Cup just doesn't sit in Melbourne, even though we like to think it does. It is part of the Kentucky Derby, and there's a Dubai one, and so it is it has an international reach to it.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Right. So you're saying that for brands where export is important, it is a good play.

SPEAKER_05 22:57

Yeah, I think it'd be a good play.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:59

And yeah, are they pitching at the influencers who are worried about the horses dying?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it depends who who your audience is. There's a big audience there, and it depends who you are looking at.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

So all of Australia, where this, you know, the country stops for three minutes during the race. In theory. People can't believe overseas that we have a day off for a horse race. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Like double change.

SPEAKER_05 23:26

Whoa! We had a day off for the bloody football. I love it. I love us. People think we're so funny. No, but what even are you Australian? The amount of revenue that generates for the state is next level crazy grand final Friday. Yes. Like it's justifiable for the revenue that the businesses are losing.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

So I saw a like a comedian the other day. Uh it must have been an old clip, but he was from America. And he comes over here and he was like, You guys are so cute. He's like, I've been watching the news, and you're all outraged at the leader of your nation because he accepted like upgrades on a quantus flight.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

And he's like, Have you seen what's going on in America?

SPEAKER_05 24:14

And and Albanese wore a what was it? Was it Velvet Underground t-shirt?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Yeah, what was the coming off the plane?

SPEAKER_05 24:23

Yeah. Some Nazi avatar just left now. Susan Lee was all very upset about it. It's like, oh, welcome to the 80s, bitch, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

It's like, I'm really glad that we hold our politicians to account.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

We totally should. Let's not stop. But at the same time, when we do, it is funny having a global lens to it and being like.

SPEAKER_05 24:43

Oh no, well, look, yeah, we don't influence the world, but I'm not gonna say anything. Fair enough. There's too much going on this week to all right.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Well, that does wrap us up for the wine news of this week. Next week, we are looking at Goon. Goon, we're back. Goon versus Bagnams. Goon versus Bagnams. So yeah, look, tune in. We are going to be seeing those bagnams, those like satchel things that they But they're kind of cool and cute and they are cool. They look like a bag of chips though, don't you think?

SPEAKER_05 25:14

Like it reminds me, they remind me of those baby yogurts that you see kids sucking on in.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Yeah, they're like pouches.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

And I've always believed that food should never come in a sack.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

It's oh god, it's the use of the word sack that yeah. But they are definitely cooler, they have like way better branding, they look really chic. So we are going to try them against your traditional bag and books and see what sucks up. All right, well, we'll be back with you next week. Enjoy your next glass of wine.

SPEAKER_05 25:47

Drink well before Mel cuts me off.