Goon Review! "Traditional" Goon Vs the Modern Bagnum

We put goon on trial by tasting Bagnum versus a classic tap cask, blind, and learned just how easily packaging can mess with perception. Along the way we unpack why a Goon Bag can inflate (unintentionally, unlike Austin's high school pillows), what freshness really means in larger formats, and why the cheaper option can still be the best drink in the glass. 

• What counts as goon and why the tap matters 
• Bagnum versus cask pricing and how it plays out per bottle 
• The “inflated Bag” problem explained by CO2 and heat 
• Blind Sauvignon Blanc tasting WOW

Banrock Station Sauvignon Blanc

https://banrockstation.com.au/collections/our-wines/products/sauvignon-blanc-2l?variant=50397991698736

• Blind Shiraz tasting

WineSmith Shiraz 2025

https://www.winesmiths.com.au/premium-selection-shiraz-nv/RESSHI6.html

• Cost of goods in alternative packaging and why bigger is not always cheaper 
• Extraction, free run and pressings explained in plain language 
• Freshness tips for boxed wine and why retailer turnover matters 

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Transcript

Welcome And Why A Producer

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mal. We are here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Mel Gil Chris, joined by Master of Wine, Meg Bratman, and we have our producer Austin from McCleary Productions with us today. Hi Austin, thanks for being here. Thanks for being our producer. Meg, I don't know if you have had so much of a lightened shoulders as I have, but I love having a producer.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Oh no. I can see why, and I I realise I don't know how we survived so long. And also you were doing it all with a baby and everything. So yes, you're you're a bloody legend, Austin.

Why Compare Cask And Bagnum

SPEAKER_03 0:46

We love you, Austin. Thank you. So today, Meg, what what are we doing today?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

We're doing goon, actually, inspired by well, not inspired by Austin, but you weren't involved in this conversation at all. I was was we were texting and I said, I wonder if there's a difference in quality between your traditional four-litre cask and the bagnums, which are held up as you know, the sort of cool new thing on the block. And then Austin started giving me recipes for cocktails that he used to make with our old favourite golden oak. Remember our golden oak chardonnay, which we actually have reviewed on the podcast before and we did love it. So what we've done, what I've done, what we've done is we've gone out and we've got well, it's actually two-litre casks. So I'll explain the rationale here. Okay. So I wanted to get four litres versus bagnum. That was the the thinking to see if there was a premium quality. But four-litre casks aren't listed varietally, except for one Shiraz that I could find. They're listed as fruity white or dry white or soft red. So they're telling you the style, it's a stylistic listing rather than the actual variety. So I've had to go two-litre casks. Yeah. And we've actually calculated the pricing difference per bottle of what it would cost. So what we've got is we've got two Sauvignon's, one in a two-litre cask and one in a bagnum. And then we've got a Shiraz. Now I couldn't get a GI Shiraz in the two litres, so it's just South Australia. Okay. But I've got a McLarenville Shiraz.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

Do people know what we mean? The Bagnams, they're what, yeah, they look like a giant packet. I don't know, like a bag of chips. It's like a pouch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So what it is is it's a bagnum. It's a magnum, which is two bottles of wine, 1.5 litres, and they've put said bagnum. So it's very clever marketing. Whoever came up with the name Bagnum is pretty cool. I think it's great. I think it's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

No, it's genius.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

A lot of it puns are always the way to go in marketing. A lot of it when it first came out, you may remember was just rose. That seemed to be the one. There's a there's a bit more choice now. And I just wanted to see whether or not there is a perceptible difference between your standard cask and the bagnum.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Do you think they still count as goon? Absolutely, they've got a tap on them. All right. So that's how that's what goon is. Goon has a tap. So do I think they look a lot cooler? Like I would feel cooler having a Bagnum in my house than the box.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

So part of why they what the way they sell it is the material that it's made of, while it's not actually currently recyclable, it is pre-cycled material apparently. So it's made from things that have been recycled.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

So are they equally sustainability?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah. So and they just, I think, you know, they've got a little hand all the bagnum. So it's almost like the bachelor's, what do they call it? The bachelor's handbag, but in wine.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Now, before we get into it, my mum, I texted you like a month or two ago because my mum had a bagnum and it had blown up like a balloon. And she texted me, like, what is going on here? I just laughed and was like, perfect. That's a pillow.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

That's what they're for. Yeah, that's what you use for the bath after you've drunk the wine.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

That's the whole I'll sit sitting here.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

This is the whole point of good guys. It had blown itself up. That was the point.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

So Mum always messages me and I always have an answer. And I looked at it and I was like, I don't actually after Tex Meg, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

So what had happened there? I think when we bottle bottle, bag, whatever, wines, we have dissolved carbon dioxide in it. And when the wine heats up, because it's sitting on the bench often, that dissolved carbon dioxide comes out of solution and the bag blows up. And it's interesting, once you'd mentioned that, I mentioned it to a few people at work and they said, Yeah, we've had the same issue. So if you do encounter that, there's nothing wrong with the wine. Just turn the bag upside down so the water can't run out and open the tap to let that CO2 out. Oh, and the wine should still be fine. The wine will still be fine. It won't stay as fresh for as long.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Of course, because that was the role.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Because that was protecting, but yeah, it's it'll still be fine. But I mean, really, 1.5 litre bagnum, unless you're my mother, you're not going to have it for longer than a month, I suppose. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Does it say on it how long they recommend you can use it for?

SPEAKER_01 5:09

I don't know. And my uh also thing is do they say on it when it's actually bagged? Probably.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Uh fresh up on 30 days once opened.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Okay, that's good. And do they have a bagging date?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

30 days, though, to get through two bottles of wine.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

It's 2024, like they'll tell you the vintage. And when it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

I mean, for me, um Elliot was given a a goon, a four-litre goon from work, and it's really handy when I'm cooking and I haven't actually got a white wine, or I've got a nice special white wine, and I'm just throwing this white wine in, you know, just to to blow off the alcohol.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

And like, let's be honest, Coravin is not always the answer because it you have to get it out, and you've got to mention this thing, and it Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Well, no, I yes, no, I I I think Coravin but the thing is with me with Coravin, we if we open a bottle of wine, we finish a bottle of wine. But my son is really into sake and he's been using it on his sakes because we're finding that they're oxidizing quite quickly, and he's spending a hundred dollars on a bottle of sake. Yeah. And because you don't drink, you just have a little tockery a night, I think that's the term. We're learning all about it. He we're saying use the Coravan. So we're actually using the Coravan more for the sake at the moment because mum and dad are finishing the bottle of wine, but Lucho's not finishing his sake every night.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

I use Coravan on more expensive wines, and I think that if I had just a weak night, wanted the odd wine, a bagnum would be a good if the quality's good.

Blind Sauvignon Blanc Taste Test

SPEAKER_01 6:44

So what I've got, yes, we're having doing this blind because the question, the premise was that Austin and I were discussing was is there a difference in quality? So, in all fairness, we are doing this blind so that we can guess which is the best one. So the first one. Wow, I'm sorry, should I point out the major variable here? You're a scientist, Meg. They're different wines. Yes, I know. It was impossible. It was impossible for me to get the same one. I did look. So we can't attribute quality to the bag or the good. No, no, no. Of course you can. What? So if you're if I put four clear reasonings from four producers in front of you, you wouldn't be able to pick a difference in quality. That is the whole point of the WSAT.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Yeah, but yeah, you can. That's the point. You can pick a different oh, are you saying like I don't know what you're saying, getting at.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

We are looking at whether the wines have differences in qualities, and we are, yes, they are different producers, but we are going to attribute that to the form of packaging.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Not to the grapes or the winemaking or the producer.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Well, no, I look, yeah, 100%. Yes. Look, the thing is you cannot get the people that do goon, don't do because I did account for that. I am a scientist, so I did look, try and find them, and it doesn't exist. So what I've tried to do is find the same region for both of them, which is also very hard. Let's just try one. Let's just uh we just want to try goon.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Yeah, we want to try goo.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

So wine one.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Actually, I'm gonna smell them both. Oh, okay. What does wine one smell like it's still fermenting? Like it's it smells like you know how the winery gets a certain smell during vintage. That's what wine one smells like.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

My question to you is is wine one Sauvignon Blanc? Does it smell like Sauvignon Blanc?

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Uh no, well it no, it almost smells like it's like bruised apple, not like a bright one.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

It's all it might be So bruised apples often oxidation. It could be like a dull Chardonnay. It could, it's it's it's wine. It's white wine. So I reckon that's I'll tell you later. No acid flabby white wine. That could go under crisp dry white.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

I just don't enjoy it at all. I wouldn't bother like like it, like I wouldn't bother pouring it for myself to cook with. Like I just I just wouldn't bother drinking it.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

It's just a dry white wine.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

It's not it's not bad at all.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Like it's not well, you're saying it's almost faulty with that oxidation in it.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

I don't think it's faulty.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

I don't think it's faulty. I just think it's very simple.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

I think it's the least drinking thing that's ever been in my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah, simple, drinkable dry white wine. Yeah, and that's that's what you can say about it. If that's what you want, go ahead and buy it. So that this was$12.99. Well, I don't know that what this was the wine, so I can't say anything, can I? The second wine smells like saving.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

It smells exactly like smell. It's passion fruit.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Passion fruit, asparagus, yeah, Cats pea.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Cats pea under great sprue bush.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

And it has a really great fine line of acidity. It is a perceptibly better quality wine, it's more varietally expressive. Yep. It I would drink that. I drink that. Yeah, it's nice, and it's nice. It the passion fruit actually leads on the palate. So sometimes when you see that really green fruit on the nose, I think, oh, this is just going to be lean and horrible. But on the palate, it is really just beautiful, rich passion fruit, and like I said, great acidity, a far better quality wine. It's more varietally expressive, it's more balanced, it's not flabby because it has that acidity.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

And you wonder, I mean, I don't know where Bagnum's, whether Bagnum's are just pitched for convenience and festivals. I know I know you can't take your own booze with festivals, but you know, picnics and that sort of thing. Whereas the two-litre cask or the four-litre cask is just to have at home for every day.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

I think um I know that you despise this, but camping would be the main thing that the people I know are buying bagnums for. Well, yeah, I don't camp.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

I have colour reveal.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

I'm I'm guessing, I'm guessing first one is the two-litre and the second one is the the second one, which was all enjoying. What? No way. That's fantastic. See, perception.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

The second story perception!

SPEAKER_01 11:10

First one, I was assuming I made the assumption that cask wine, two-litre cask wine, goon, would be of a lower quality than the Bagnum. That Banrock Station, let's give it a shout out. Sauve-yong Blanc, where does it where is it from? Does it say uh GI on it? Is it just Australia?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Riverland and South Australia.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Riverland.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

I'm supporting Riverland.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Buy it.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

$12.99 for two litres. It's uh uh like all power to Ban Rock Station, but like it is it's not the coolest packaging. It just you you think that the better wine is going to be in the cooler packaging, and that is three times as good wine. Oh, yeah, that's great. It's it's it is a really enjoying, enjoyable Sauvignon Blanc. Can I take a sidebar to talk about Savion Blanc? Because just to remind everyone that we called it last year that Savion Blanc is coming back.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Well, it's interesting in this format Chardonnay, very hard. I can find Chardonnay in Cass, can't find it in Bagnum. I can find Pinot Grigio and Sauvignon Blanc. They're the only two. And I struggled to find Pinot Grigio in a two-litre.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

I was talking to someone kind of high up in Vinicky over the summer at the AO, and she's like, yeah, we think that Savion Blanc is coming back too because they have Stonely and they've got big plans for Stonely. So I reckon this summer, we're talking next summer, we're talking 10 months away. I think Savion Blanc, you're gonna see a huge rise.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Who owns Ben Rock now?

SPEAKER_03 12:40

It was part of the accolade hardy accolade, Hardy's group.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

And then they gave it up, but they kept the brand, they gave up the the facility. I don't know. I don't know either. Yeah, yeah. So that that could be a vinicky wine. And if it is, it's promoting the Riverland, they've done a great job with it. That is surprising. That's good. I actually I'm happy with this.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

I don't drink that. You didn't spit it out.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

No, no, no, no, no. That's how we know. If I came round to yours and it was colder, I've got to say it's not in its best form, I would be more than happy to have a glass of that. And if I was camping, I would drink the whole thing so I could figure I was camping. Well, responsible service of drinking, drink sensibly, please.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

And then blow them back up inside.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Yeah, and sleep on it. Sleep on there. I don't understand the point of camping. I still don't. I think it's for people who appreciate the outdoors. I can do that in a walk. Yeah, see, I don't appreciate the physical exercise. But I do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

I'm I was Pete came home the other night and I was because I had a significant birthday my 60th, two weeks ago, and uh Pete came home and I was it's I'm thinking about you know old age and looking after my body. And I was on the treadmill, and I could just see the camera, his phone come out the door and he's filming me. And I said, What are you doing? He said, Well, this is like I'm finding the Yeti. It's such a rare occurrence. I have been back on thrive since then. Wow, it's so boring walking on a treadmill, but I do get to watch shit on tally.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Austin, because Austin, like he's you know, our content guy now. He was so stoked when he got through a feel that it wasn't what we thought it was.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Well, I also think that we should put up Austin's high school, was it high school cocktail? So it was golden oak with agri.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

We don't we don't endorse drinking alcohol in high school, by the way. I think I th I'm pretty sure pretty sure he was 18 with him.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

My kids were 18 in high school.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Oh, true. In their final year. Oh, okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

I wasn't, I was I was 17. Yeah, but yes, it was agram, and I went back and said, What is that? Do you know what it is? Is it agram? Yeah, I know what agram is. Yeah, it's bitter orange soda. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Is that your mix with white wine?

SPEAKER_02 15:02

And vodka.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Episode idea. I used to be known as the uh queen of goon punch.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah, it was a goon punch.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Episode idea. Me and Austin goon punch off, and we both make our signature goon punch, and you have to decide who makes the better goon punch, and you're not allowed. We we have a cap on spending because that's the whole point.

unknown 15:25

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

All right. No grey goose, Austin. Like this has to be the shortest of the space. Wouldn't that just be a waste of grey goose?

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah, probably. I think our idea of the champagne cocktail idea with all the different champagne cocktails is a fabulous idea.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

I want to taste a French 75 with champagne and with Prosecco and see if it actually.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

I've done it better with Australian sparkling wine and champagne over COVID. Because we were bored. I didn't find Yeah, but it depends what Australian It was the Rob Dolan Blanc de Blanc, so because I have present mean bottles of that in mind.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Well, it's not quiet prosecco, though.

Shiraz Showdown Plus Packaging Costs

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Well, it's Charmat, though, it's tank method, but it's a different great variety. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so what we've got now is we've got two Chirazzes, Shirazes. One is from Winesmith. So we've got a Winesmith Shiraz. What's the GI, Austin? Sorry. I should have it's South Australia. That's right. So I could not find a goon that had a GI on it. But interestingly, the Bagnams shatter from the rooftops. Barossa Shiraz, McLarenvale Shiraz. It was it was very, very evident. So they're clearly pitching themselves at a higher level. Whereas interesting, with the the cask, and we're using Winesmith as an example, you're just saying it's Shiraz. Yeah. So I assume it's probably from the Riverland.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

So hopefully Can we take a quick moment from what you know of production, what is going to have higher cogs in terms of uh cost of goods in terms of the Bagnum or the I'm wondering, right, if they want it to land at the same price point, are they actually putting different, like not as good wine into it because it's more expensive to put the wine into a bagnum rather than the box?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So bagnum that not not a lot of people can bag Bagnum. So you are limited, so there would be transport. But I would suspect, and I don't have any data for this, but I would suspect that these larger companies may have invested in the technology to actually do it themselves in-house for Bagnum's. Whereas for you, I know that Santelin Wines, because they're part of Naked Wines, they've done a rose in a Bagnum, and though there was one place that they could go that was offering a contract facility for that. I know just in terms of like carbon footprint, because everything's flat-packed, shipping, all of that is just so much lighter and quicker and easier to fill. So I think your cogs possibly on the bagging side, if you don't have a bagnum bagger, yes, I don't know how different it is to bagging a it must be different because to doing a cask.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Yeah. And like I think that's a good thing for people listening to understand is that when the tool changes that's delivering your wine. So if it's in a normal bottle, everyone kind of has their own bottling facility. But if it's in something different, it is going to change how much that final wine costs to you. So a good example is magnums. A lot of people go, how come I'm not saving money when I buy? Because it's two in one. I'm it's higher. And generally speaking, in the world, when you buy more, you get cheaper per unit. But to put wine in a magnum is a completely different process, which makes the cost go way up.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, and at smaller wineries, magnums and larger format bottles are usually hand bottled, which means we are standing there, there's a small bottling line, and you're putting the bottle on, you're taking it off, and then you're hand corking or hand capsuling. So it is a way more expensive process.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

It's we don't have Magnum facilities. Like the cogs, the cost of goods on Magnum's is so high. That's why they're so limited. And I think understanding the cost of goods of the different ways that wine is packaged actually goes a long way in you understanding what kind of value you're gonna get for the wine that you're buying.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Well, I'll give you a classic example of what we did on uh Magnum Rose, remember?

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Uh, the bottle, the bottle and the stopper was$9 each versus a bottle of 750 mil we could get for maybe 81 cents. Whoa! And then you're doing it by hand. And then you're doing it by hand. And that was before we had the name printed on of what the wine was. It was a$9 fix cost for the bottle, and it had one of those vinyl locks on it. So, yeah, it is much more expensive. And it's interesting because when, you know, recently we were doing a stock take of all the stuff that we found, and we found a whole heap of Magnum bottles, and Adrian said, Don't throw those out because they are gold for me because currently I'm not bottling in Magnums, but they're expensive to buy. So why would I not take these freebies that I've just found in the stock take?

SPEAKER_03 20:07

So And you know what? We spoke about last week on Wine News, we spoke about Troy Sylvan, and that first wine that they've released with him, I read that they're available in magnums by expressions of interest. So they're not making it- So that's a hand-to-hand bottling. Yeah, so they're not making them in advance and selling them. You have to put in an expression of interest to be able to get one. It's like we'll make one for you, but you'll pay for it. But we digress. We do digital. As is our want. As is our way. Let's go. Okay, so we have two Shirazes in front of us.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

So one's McLarenvale and one's South Australia. Alright, one is definitely better on the nose, but one's perceptibly darker in colour. The one on the right is much darker in colour.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

It's yummy.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

That first one is drinkable. The first wine is a lovely, quite soft, fruity Shiraz. It's very much fruit-driven. It's very plum, good acidity, well-balanced tannins are really in check. Yeah. Second wine, much darker in colour. I feel there's a lot of uh chippiness in there. There seems to be a lot of uh sort of oakyness in the second one, which often that could be either or because at this price point people like bang for buck for flavour.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

So it's just seems to be more, but the extraction on that is more. So there's yeah, it feels like there's more tannin, which I would say is the more serious wine. So it is the bagnum.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

I would like to investigate the packaging. So one of them says them the box says plum fruit with a cheeky hint of spice. What does is there a description of the flavor on the front there and the other one?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Well, there's a whole essay on the back.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

There's a there's draw me right out the back.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Nah. Can you pick out any just like a key?

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Strawberry, strawberry, strawberry strawberry. Of spice, milk chocolate, and French and American oak.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Well, then I'm gonna go. That's your bagnum with your French and American oak. I've probably got it wrong again.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Okay, I'm gonna go separate to you, Meg, because here is my theory. The second one is bigger and fuller and more oaky, and I think people who traditionally buy uh bag and box want that.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Which is kind of what I've just been saying.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah, and the first wine was more like lighter and yummy and more like that medium softness, which is what I assume people think bagnum consumers will lean towards. So I think bagnum one and cast two.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

So the bagnum was wine number one. Oh no, the goon was wine number one.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Wait, what was your favorite? What would you drink?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Uh I think wine one, the the the goon, the two-litre cask, fulfills my pre-perceived conception, if that makes sense. I I I would expect it to be soft and fruity and expressive with plum fruit. Whereas I find the bagnum a bit too extracted. Like I don't find it particularly pleasant because it at the at this sort of drinking level, I just want quaffable. Me too. And I don't necessarily think that the Shiraz delivers on that quaffability. If that's a word, I'm just making it up.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

No, no, no, no, absolutely. I think we both we're aligned. I I actually quite enjoy. Do you know what? If you went out and spent$20 on a bottle of Barossa Shiraz right now, I would rather drink this goon Shiraz. Hands on.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Well, that's the thing and Nelson and I just before you arrived were saying that we should, and let's we can potentially revisit this, we should put it against bottled wine that equates to the same price that this comes out at. Which if I six dollars. Yeah, I know. Well, but no, we're we've done three dollars before. Yeah, so yeah, we could do something at$6.50. So the the winesmith's cask was$13.99, and this Bagnum was$22.99.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

I was like, what? Question Austin.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Which is still sub ten dollars a bottle.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Do you like bigger beds? Do you like brossa Shiraz?

SPEAKER_01 24:24

No.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

We need someone in the room who likes that. We can't be in Durham.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

No, to be fair, we did well with our Syrah versus Shiraz taste off, and we had some big bastards in there. We had that Greenwich Creek, I think. Shiraz.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

My dad likes a big Sheraz. And so I can see him between these two definitely enjoying the bigger, more okay one. I actually put it down to my preference that I enjoy the box more than that.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

I think this this delivers on what it says on the thing.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

The only thing that by this you mean the number two, the magnum.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

I did find the extraction on that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Yeah, it is a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Yeah, it would have gone well with my steak last night, which my husband cooked but was a bit overcooked.

Extraction Explained Without Jargon

SPEAKER_02 25:20

By extraction, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Tannin.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

So it's quite furry on the finish.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Yeah. It's like literally the amount of time that it's like because the grapes, you're getting your tannin and your colour and stuff from the skins, the longer you leave them in with the juice, the act of extraction, you're expecting the tannin. Extracting the tannin. And so if you just like leave it in for a little bit, it's just gonna get a little bit of tannin.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

And this would be classic. When I was at uni, we had what we was we called the pen folds method. So basically, if you wanted to produce these fruity styles of red, which I was studying wine make in the 90s, yeah, you fermented till it you got about six to eight percent alcohol. So your alcohol's gonna be 14%, you ferment on skins to six to eight, and then you pull it off.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So that you've got no skins and it just finishes, and so you're not getting all that extraction.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

And it's probably a good time to loop in as well. When you see uh wines that talk about, it's normally like basket press, they talk about basket press wines. What they're saying there, when they say careful extraction, they mean that they're not overdoing it and getting heaps and heaps of this colour and flavor out. And so traditionally, another term to think about free run juice might come up a bit. If you see the word free run juice, it means that it's had very little extraction and it's going to be really pure and lovely.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

So, what free run is is after the firm alcoholic fermentation has completed on skins, we open the valve and the wine runs out. And then we take the skins out and we press those. And so that pressings.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

It's like when you take your washing out and it's still wet and you have to ring it.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Yeah, so you're getting more extraction, and that feels like it's got pressings in it. Yes. And at that price point, you would be putting the pressing straight back. Generally, if you're producing a wine of quality, you keep your pressings separate and you can fine, refine them by adding a number of agents and take out that really fairy harsh, what we call astringent. Astringent means that drying tannin, that black tea tannin, or if you've ever eaten a fresh quince accidentally, try it. It's just it just bites, or even an underripe pear or apple, you know how it sort of just dries out your mouth really quickly. What I'm seeing in that the bagnum there is the extraction, and I would suspect there's a lot of pressings in there. Whereas these guys at Winesmiths with their Shiraz, they're going for a gentler style, so they've probably kept all the pressing separate, find them and then added them back.

Best Value Picks And Next Week

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, and this is an imperfect analogy, right? But if you thought of free run juice, like you split open an orange and squeezed it, so just the juice came out. It's nice juice. But then, say you're like an industrial juicer and you have all these oranges and you're getting a big thing and just stomping in all the oranges with the skins and everything, you'd get heaps of juice out, but you'd also get heaps of that like pith, bitterness and pith, and you'd get everything in there, and it would undoubtedly be more bitter. So maybe that's it's an imperfect analogy, but it kind of that is why the word extraction matters in this case. Yeah, that was fun. That was so fun. Let's specifically call out the two goons that we really enjoyed. What was the first one?

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Banks the Banrock Station, Sauvignon Blanc from the Riverland, buy it. Yeah. They Banrock Station has got some amazing environmental sustainability thing. I think they plant trees and stuff. No, they they were they were they like it's a carbon neutral winery and everything. It was all over the news, but it was a few years ago, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

And then so we preferred, oh my god, we preferred the cask line in both cases in both cases. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

And the other one was Winesmith.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Winesmith's Shiraz 2025. Interesting, they've put a gear on it. So it's a young wine. And is there a vintage on the uh Vagnums? Just out of interest.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Yeah, it doesn't look like it.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

No. That can be. Vintage 2024? But you really have to look for it. It's not, it's not there.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

It might be 24 over. And then new gear, uh, vintage 2024 in the red.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

But not on the front of the thing. No, consumers don't care. Yeah. Okay. Go for freshness, I think, in in anything. I would recommend if you're going to buy casks, just as a general thing, go to a store where you think the cask is doing high turnover.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Yeah, that is a good idea. Austin, do you have any advice when it comes to inflating pillows or or anything?

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Just do with your heart. Just do with it. Okay. And even if you can't, you know, the ground is still comfy.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Okay. Beautiful. That's enough. No, it's not. That's a nice note for us to went on. Okay. Uh, we will be back with you next week. We we're going doing something fun next week. We're doing what to do when you're looking at a wall of what the fuck.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

I didn't even understand what this was, so hence I haven't gone out and bought any what the fuck wines. We're going to do it together.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

It's funny because you're the one that pitched it. But it's imagine that you are in a small town, there's no big dance, there's no fancy wine shop. You end up in like an IGA and you're looking at not just an IGA, but yeah. Like a, you know, it's like a wine shop that a wine shop, and you're just like, You've all done it on holidays. Even are these wines. What would you buy? And so me and Meg, we've identified a shop down the road. We're gonna go be like, here's what we'd buy, and this is our reasoning, and we're gonna try each other's out and see how we went.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

It'll be fun.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

We'll see you next week. Enjoy your next glass of wine. Please remember that you are following us on all the social platforms.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Sorry, Meg go, just cut across me and drink well.

unknown 31:17

Sorry, I wish we got up.