The Art of Selling Online Courses

229 I Started Posting 1 Short A Day. Here's What Happened

• John Ainsworth • Season 1 • Episode 229

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Jori Chisholm has been teaching bagpipes online since 2003… before YouTube even existed. He was literally the first person to ever teach a bagpipe lesson on a webcam. Fast forward to today and he's running bagpipelessons.com, reaching students in 30 countries, and last year he hit 3.2 million views on Meta and 320,000 on YouTube.

The wild part? He wasn't even trying to hit those numbers. His strategy was simple… post one short video every single day. And it worked.

In this episode we dig into how Jori built a thriving course business in one of the smallest niches you can imagine. We talk about why he has courses AND a membership AND physical products, how he uses his email list to actually drive sales, and why he thinks AI is going to wipe out a lot of generic information-only courses but won't touch businesses built on real personal connection and trust.

Whether you're in a tiny niche or a massive one, there's a lot to learn from someone who's been doing this successfully for 25 years.

#OnlineCourses #SalesFunnels #CourseCreators #DigitalMarketing

🎵 Check out Jori's work at https://bagpipelessons.com
🎵 Jori's YouTube channel:  https://youtube.com/bagpipelessons

🤝  Get In Touch
If you'd like to talk more about how you can grow your course business, email me at john@datadrivenmarketing.

The Surge Of Short Video Views

SPEAKER_03

The thing that has really bumped up the views on both YouTube and also on Facebook and Instagram is short video. I made a plan to post a short every day, and that's really really worked. Holy cow, this worked. Holy cow. 320,000 views on YouTube, 3.2 million views on Facebook and Instagram. A lot of people look at them and then we'll subscribe. 30 different countries. All 50 states here, all the provinces in Canada. When he opened up his phone to unlock his phone to take the selfie, he had YouTube open, and it was shorts and all the shorts from my Facebook.

Meet Yori And The Niche He Serves

SPEAKER_01

Hello, welcome to the Art of Telling Online Courses. My name is John Hansbert, and today's guest, Yori Chicken. Now Yori is a world-renowned bagpiper and founder of bagpipelections.com. It's one of the leading online schools to pipe it worldwide. It's a thousand students to its courses, its membership, and its physical products as well. And he's known for combining deep bagpipe traditions with modern tools that make uh high-level bagpiping clear, accessible, and enjoyable for players at every level. And we're going to talk today about how to run a great course business in a small niche and what effect AI might have on course businesses. Mine have courses and a membership and maybe even physical products as well. Yori, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03

Hi John, thanks for having me. Great to see you.

SPEAKER_01

So can you talk us through like who you help with your courses? Is it anybody at any level with bagpiping? Is it like total beginners? Like what's the kind of audience?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so I would say my main audience would be from complete beginner bagpipers to, I would say, like experienced sort of intermediate levels. I don't have any sort of professional, top-level players. They, you know, they've got it figured out. They've got other ways that they're they're working on your craft. So um bagpipers are around the world, many countries, but in sort of like the the traditional sort of like um Anglosphere countries are the big ones. So you have, of course, the UK, Ireland, United States, Canada, New Zealand, Australia would be the big ones. But then I have students and customers all over the world. I think last time I checked, it's close to 30 different countries, all 50 states here, all the provinces in Canada.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. It's cool, isn't it?

Pioneering Online Bagpipe Lessons

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's well, it's I mean, the internet is just amazing. And I I just had a couple months ago the 25th anniversary of my website, by blessings.com. I registered in 99, launched it in 2000. I had gotten out of university. I thought I was gonna have a more conventional career. I was pre-med in college, and I thought, I'm gonna be a doctor somewhere in the middle of university. I had this feeling that that's not what I was gonna do, and that I had this calling to um chart my own course, really. Um, and I'm not sure where that came from, but I knew that I loved bagpipes and I loved playing, and I was very interested in the late 90s to see if there's a way that I could combine my interest in this instrument and making a living and using the internet to do that. So started teaching online in 2003. I was the very first person to teach a bagpipe lesson on a webcam. Yeah. So um in 2003, I'm a big Apple Mac guy. Um, they released their Firewire external webcam called the Eyesight Camera. And I bought two of them because at that point I was studying with a great American piper named Mike Cusack down in Houston, Texas, which is a long way from where I live in Seattle. And I would fly down to study with Mike several times a year. And Mike was also a Macintosh guy. So I bought two of these cameras and I sent one to Mike and he got it, and we turned on at that point, it was called iChat A V, which was like an instant messenger thing with a video thing. And we did it. And somewhere I have a recording of that very first lesson, uh, early 2003. And after that, I was like, holy cow, this works! And I updated my website to say now offering interactive webcam lessons, and um been teaching, you know, online in that format ever since, and went from iChat AV to a whole bunch of different uh various little video chat programs that have gone away, and then it was on Skype for many years and then switched over to Zoom now. So um, but still I teach a few students on FaceTime as well. So just kind of fell into it, you know, wanting to find a way to combine my interest in bagpipes and wanting to keep doing it and, you know, find a way to bring bagpipe information and knowledge to people using the internet. I'm not from a bagpiping family, I'm not from a bagpiping hub center in the world. There are places where there's a lot more, but I really loved it and was super enthusiastic. So I definitely know the feeling of uh being an outsider and being confused and just hungering and yearning for good information and tools and expertise. And that's what I try to give my students and my customers. Love it.

Audience Demographics And Trust

SPEAKER_01

Um one of the things I found with people teaching musical instruments online, and I talk to a lot of people who are teaching, you know, a lot of our clients, a lot of the people who who guest on the podcast are teaching music, is that generally the audience, the customers, um are retired, like over 50. And I'm super curious to find out what kind of age range have you got with your with your customers?

Content Strategy: Shorts Over Long Form

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so I've I have the whole range. I would say I don't have a lot of really young kids, um, although I have, you know, youngish kids. Um I will I don't know what percentage of my I don't think the majority of my students are retired. I would say a lot of them are middle-aged, um, who are really passionate about this hobby. And it's a hobby to them, it's something they love to do, something they have they take a lot of pride in and they spend a lot of time working on it, and they're willing to invest in getting some, you know, high-quality feedback and information. So, like everything out there, there's a lot of information on the internet, a lot of it is not that good, and you can spend a lot of time trying to find good information and trying to sort out whether it's, you know, um worth your time. So, what I try to do is be a trusted source for people. Where I've been doing this, I started playing when I was a little kid. I've been doing this professionally for many, many years now. And what I'm gonna offer you is high-quality information that you can trust, a one-on-one connection with me. I have a big audience, but my my members and my online course um subscribers are it's manageable. So you can email me, you can instant message me, and I will answer your questions. So, high quality information from a source that you can trust so that you can spend your time practicing, getting better, working on your craft, enjoying it, finding more meaning and satisfaction and making more progress and learning to play the bagpipes, and not just combing the internet, um, you know, going down rabbit holes and chasing dead ends, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So with building your audience, I know that you've got like about 4,000 odd subscribers on YouTube, but your views are like way higher than that. Like you're getting about 30,000 views a month. What's working for you there? Are you mainly getting views from search or discovery or like what's what's kind of working for you?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so um a couple of years ago I set a goal to have to make 52 YouTube videos in the year. So one a week. And I hit it and it was a lot. And I'm really glad that I did it. And um I ended up um working with a couple of really great editors, freelance editors, who helped me hit hit that goal. Um, and then last year, sort of thought that was too much. I'm gonna keep doing YouTube videos, but I'm not gonna do it at that pace. I would say the thing that has really bumped up the views on both YouTube and also on Facebook and Instagram is short videos. So I made a plan to, uh I think it was last year, to post a short every day. And that's really, really worked. So I don't personally look at short videos. Um, I'm trying to get stuff done and run a business and raise my family so I don't have a lot of time to just enjoy the algorithm. Um, so I don't look at shorts, but I know that people really love shorts. And from the data that I look at, it's we get a lot of people that look at them and then um will subscribe. And then I try to get people on my email list. That's kind of my the main thing that drives my business, is getting people on my email list so that they can they can learn more about the things that I have to offer them. So I'd say short video has really been super helpful.

SPEAKER_01

I know you're not big into tracking metrics, but do you have any sense of like how well the shorts convert into email subscribers versus long form viewers?

SPEAKER_03

I don't. No, I can't. Um the the numbers that I have, um, you know, when I'm talking to people that say, oh wow, you're doing YouTube, that's so great. You make a lot of money off YouTube, and it's like not in the way that some people make money off of YouTube, which is I'm not monetizing my videos. I mean, I think I have monetization turned on for a few videos, and it's like pennies here and there. Yeah. But what I'm trying to do is use it as um, you know, so people can find out about what I'm doing, so people know who I am, so people can um be familiar with my offerings. And so many of my YouTube videos are what I try to do is give high-quality information that addresses problems that pipers have, introduce topics, try to demystify things, try to simplify complex topics that maybe traditionally have been unclear in the way that they're taught or communicated, or sort of unnecessarily complicated. So I try to simplify and make things clear to people. And often that will involve highlighting uh a course or a product that I've invented. Um, you know, I've been playing since 1987, started as a kid, competed at the world-class level for many, many years, going to Scotland and competing at these top championships, playing in bands and teaching. If I didn't learn something about what the problems are that Pipers face, I would be missing out. So I try to take that experience for myself and for my students and go, okay, this is an issue that Pipers have. Maybe this is a video that's going to address that question. Maybe this is a PDF that people can download, a checklist or a guide, or maybe it's a factual physical product that I need to invent and get out there that will help people.

SPEAKER_01

So um one of the things that you you've been creating a lot of short form stuff, and you told me just before we started, you got like over three million views last year on Meta. Like, how did that happen? Because you said you weren't even setting it as a goal. It's like that seems like a lot.

Solving Real Problems With Products

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So my, you know, I focus on the production side of my business because that's what I love to do, and that's what I'm, you know, that's what I've had all this experience doing. Like, I'm a musician creating music, creating performances, teaching, creating content, finding new ways to communicate things in an inspiring and engaging and fun way. Um, that's what I love to do. Making videos, got this cool camera and this like lighting setup here. That's fun to me. Obsessing over, I don't know, landing pages or metrics is like not, I know that's important, but that's not what I'm interested in doing. I was, I did a little um Happy New Year, Thanks for a great year email that I sent out to my list just um last week. And as part of that, I was trying to think of like what are some highlights over 2025 and went through and was like, holy cow, 320,000 views on YouTube, 3.2 million views on Facebook and Instagram. I was not shooting for that, but what I was doing is on the production side, which is let's make sure we're posting regularly. Let's make sure that I'm mixing in sort of product information offers with free high-value content and lots of short videos. So a short video every day. I think that's what's driving it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that makes sense. That's still a lot though. Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03

And you know, it's like different, you know, I'm I'm not the expert on this, but they're you know, different audiences in different places. I think my audience is still really heavily on Facebook, despite all the other platforms and offerings that that pop up. So um sort of from kids into middle age, into retirement age, adults in the countries I talked about, but the United States is a big country, something like 50 million people. Americans consider themselves of Scottish heritage, big audience, lots of people interested in bagpipes, um interested in investing in their hobbies. Not everybody who plays bagpipes is willing to like who wants to study and get better and invest in products that will will help them enjoy their piping. So I think those people are on YouTube and Facebook.

Creation First, Metrics Later

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that makes sense. One of the things she said there was that um you're not really that interested in the numbers or landing pages, what have you. I think that's like most of the people listening to the podcast are kind of the same. Like nearly all of our clients are kind of the same. It's like people started a course business because they are an expert in a particular topic and they were they love teaching. So they love teaching through YouTube or short form videos and courses and what have you. And uh I think that's basically how come how come I've uh you know started that business. Basically, it was just like I could see there's a need of like there's all these places where met knowing the metrics, making great funnels is really helpful, but like this is a group of people who do just do not really want to do that. That's like not kind of the focus. One thing I wanted to ask you about, actually, was that you said that you think AI is gonna wipe out a lot of generic information only courses. Can you talk to us about that? Because that's fascinating point of view.

AI’s Impact On Information-Only Courses

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so I'm I'm I'm really interested in AI and what it can do, and sort of stepping out away from my my business, just like I'm just sort of interested in technology and very interested in where the world is going with this. And I have kids and they're in school, and of course, there's there's just lots of implications for everybody with these technologies. And um, so I basically don't read, I don't basically don't watch the news. I just try to like um um stay focused on the things that I can control and focus on my business, you know. So like following and scrolling and following what's going on in current events is not compatible with me living the kind of life that I want to lead and running the business that I want to, but I do I do read AI-based news. And one of the things that seems to be coming up is that, and this maybe is obvious, is that information is becoming easier to gather and sort of you can synthesize what you're looking for, like just like Google AI search. So I use that all the time now instead of regular Google search. So you're looking for something and it will, it will curate the response, you know, just for what you're looking for. So it's not like, you know, how do I change the light bulb on my Prius and then go find a website and find a video and try to scroll down? It's like it just tells you, and you can, you know, you know how these tools work. So it makes me think that, you know, you could create your own lead magnet. So, like, oh, I want a guide for how to tune my bagpipes quickly on my own, using my ear without a tuner. Well, that's something that I could teach, but as these AI tools get better, that's just something you could just search and it would just create it for you instantly. You know, or with vibe coding, you know, well, create an app for me to do this. So I really think that the idea of having, you know, if your course, so let me just talk about me. So if my course is simply information on a website that someone has to pay to like access, that's so easily replaceable by an AI tool. I mean, I've done this where I've listened to a podcast and it's like a really interesting podcast with an author talking about some topic, and they have a book. We can go to an AI tool and just like give me a super in-depth summary of the book. Don't even need to read, don't even need to read the book. Now, obviously, reading the whole book is better than the AI summary, but it's kind of amazing how much information you can get and present it in the way that you want. And now these AI tools also have like quiz mode and learning mode and create flashcards and create quizzes and create videos. I was just playing around with Notebook LM last couple days, which is a Google tool. And it's like upload all these documents, create flashcards, create quizzes, create an infographic. So the information that's out there in the world can be easily synthesized and repurposed and put into any format that you want. And that could be an online course. I mean, think about your favorite author or podcaster or whatever. There's no reason you couldn't suck it out, all the transcripts from all those podcasts on the topics that you want and turn it into a course. Yeah. I mean, what's to stop someone from taking that? I've technically done that before.

SPEAKER_01

Like I found a YouTube channel that was about a topic I was interested in. Um But each video was just covering one little bit, and I wanted I had certain questions I wanted answered. So I went through an ASE tool called, I think it was Grabit, and it like pulled in all the URLs, and I put the URLs in there with another tool into Notebook LM, and then that basically gave me um the output of I can now ask it any questions I had and it would give me the answers to it from that. And it's just like, oh, that saved me watching like 50 users. Now I could have paid to sign up for their course, but I was like, oh, maybe this is enough actually. Maybe this will give me what I'm after. And uh I think there's a real I think there's a kind of a mixture of a threat and an opportunity at the same time here with AI because it's like on the one hand, it's like, oh, why would someone get a course if they could do all of these things for free and it might even be better? So course sales might go down, but then we can use these tools to make our courses and what we're providing people with better. Like we had someone on the other day who she's built her own AI tool using one of the services out there and then sold that and she made three times more money from that than she ever made from selling courses.

The Irreplaceable Value Of You

SPEAKER_03

Like monetizing like a like a a chat bot or something. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's very, very interesting. So I'm a techno optimist. I love combining new tools, services, opportunities, and like merging it with something I'm really passionate about, which is an sort of an ancient thing, bagpipes. But you know, people are just gonna, it will be an adaptation process. Um, one thing that an AI tool, at least now, I don't know when people are watching this years from now, maybe replicated, but at least as of right now, early 2026, it can't replicate you. Yeah. Right. So that's been my whole thing. Um, you know, there's like a little bit of imposter syndrome, I think people feel. It's like, I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna be the expert on this, I'm gonna teach this, but there's so many other people and they're so much better than me or more established or whatever. Yeah, but they're not you. So I know there are other bagpipe teachers out there, there are other places you can get information. Some are free, whatever, but I'm me. And if you like my style and you like the way that I present the information, this is, you know, you're working with me. That's an amazing thing about one-on-one like Skype or Zoom lessons is that if you're um you can find a teacher that you connect with, no matter where you live in the world, right? It's not just I gotta find a teacher, a piano teacher that I can drive to, right? So now you can find someone you connect with. So same thing with these online courses, you connect with that person, something about their delivery, their personal connection to you, the way they present the information. You know, only you can be you. And if that's, you know, if that's valuable to people, then they're willing to sign up.

SPEAKER_01

So you mentioned earlier that you like, you know, if people have got a question, they can just email you or or instant message you or what have you. And I think one of the things that I'm seeing become more important is to have that kind of community or way of answering questions or like to actually interact with a real, a real person. And I know one of the things you've got is you've got courses and a membership. A lot of people have just one or the other, right? And you've got courses and a membership, and you've got physical products as well, which I think is awesome. Can you talk everyone through like why you're doing those, all those different things, kind of what the benefits of that are?

Building A Ladder: Downloads To Membership

SPEAKER_03

So the way the way it started was so I'm teaching, you know, I have my online webcam lesson business starting in the early 2000s, and I had a student who was a successful guy in business and was sort of semi-retired, and he said, you know what would be really great was for every tune that I want to learn, if you could if I could have like a really nice clean copy of the sheet music and a recording that would match it, and maybe a little recorded lesson. And so it's like, yeah, that's totally doable. Because it typically the way that pipers learn uh tunes is that there's some like old book somewhere, then you get a photocopy of a photocopy, and maybe there's a bunch of typos in it, so it's got like ri writing all over it. So I came up with this idea of a tune lesson download, which is a really nice professionally typeset PDF of the sheet music with no typos, a recording of me playing it on the pipes, and then like a brief five to ten minute audio recorded lesson. And those were five bucks, and I still sell them all these years later. And that was like my first downloadable product, five dollars, and you could buy bundles of them. Then I thought, well, I should really make some things showing some of the fingering. So I created these things called video lesson downloads. And these are like basic little five to ten minute videos. Again, this is like before people were streaming um and embedding, you know, high-quality video. So it was like a little video file that you would download in a zip file. Still sell some of those, not too many though. And then I had other ideas where I could do this, I could do that, I could do a guide, I could do a how to tune your drones or whatever. And then all right away I thought this is too much. Like just to have like a web store with like hundreds of little mini things to download is like too much. I'm gonna create basically an all you can eat, all Inclusive thing. So I started this, my online membership, and it was called the Bagpipelessons.com Studio. And it was basically just a lesson library behind a you know password that you would subscribe to, pay monthly or yearly, and you just get everything was in there. And that still exists. So for years I had this idea that I wanted to create a more interactive, live community-based aspect to my membership. So about five years ago, I started doing live weekly classes on Zoom and then sort of rebranded it. Now it's called the BagpipLessons.com Inner Circle. And what you get is the live weekly classes with me. And sometimes I bring in other world class bagpipers as guest instructors. And you get access to this lesson library that had everything I had in my old studio library and the archived video recordings from all these live sessions. So there's hundreds of hours of these recorded live classes that are available on the membership. And we have a Facebook group. Let's have a membership. Then we add the live course aspect to it. But what I realized was that for a lot of people, that's a big leap from a$5 tune download to a yearly subscription. So I wanted to add some things sort of in between there. So I do have a couple other more specific courses which are maybe more like the traditional online course, which is there's not a live aspect to it. You just pay for it and then you get access to the lesson content. Those have been good in terms of getting people to, again, sort of learn more about me, see the type of quality and the type of content that I'm offering. And then a lot of people that start with those tune downloads or with the courses will then upgrade to the membership.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. So that's kind of like a the your product ladder is like the you start with some of those cheaper offerings or with the independent individual courses, and then you'll go on to become a member of the actual system.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, some people do it that way. Although I do also have um when somebody signs up to be a member, I'm always kind of curious to see like, okay, where do they come from? Um and sometimes it will be someone who's been on my email list for a while and they've downloaded some of my free guides. Um but sometimes it's just boom, the very first sort of contact I have with them is them signing up. So I think that comes from the YouTube um presence. I think where that's coming from. So people, I don't have I I haven't had a connection with them. They haven't downloaded, they haven't, I have they're not in my email audience, but they've been watching me and um getting to know me through my videos, getting to understand the content that I offer, and then be like, okay, I'm ready now. Boom, I'm gonna sign up. So straight in from there.

Email As The Engine Of Sales

SPEAKER_01

And then in terms of because I know there are people who go in just straight from YouTube, but then you also do build up an email list. You've got your free downloads and what have you as well. How often are you then doing a promotion of a course or the membership or something like that to your email list?

SPEAKER_03

Gosh. I'm sending out a lot of emails. I'm probably sending out I'm not sure how many emails I send out a year, but I try to get you know at least a couple emails out every week. So a combination of um helpful content, and then there's various announcements and news kinds of things, and then um again, I'm not pushing the hard sell on people, but I really believe in these products is that this is something I've invented, either physical product or this is a course that I've developed, which is gonna help you. Like this is I know what you're going through, and you don't have to get this, but this is out there. So um I try to mix in um it's a combination of content, videos, guides, downloads, and then various promotional offers. Um I also have a lot of email automation that really helps. So a welcome flow, post-purchase flows, um various offers and sort of gifts to my subscribers, either free download or um an offer to get one of my online courses at a really big discount, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

Got it. Yeah. And one of the reasons that I work with online course creators is because I'm such a big fan of online courses. Because I just think they're fantastic. So there's only so much you can get someone to in a podcast or in a YouTube video, just because of the way that that because you you you're trying to optimize for what is it that people want there, but when you put the course together, you can be like, right, I'm gonna organize this exactly in the right way so that I can get someone from where they are to where they want to be in terms of the actual outcome and the result that they want to have. And so I get really passionate about like promoting it. You know, that's like one of the things I'm I I I work with people a lot on. It's like, you need to be promoting these courses more because it's like they're so good. You know, people put out hundreds of hours into making this amazing course. It's like you've got to tell people about it, we've got to get it out there. Whereas a lot of course creators are like, oh, surely everybody knows about it. Surely it's, you know, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We've got to promote this, we've got to be telling people about it and give them like get them to take action on it because this stuff is so good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What's the biggest challenges for you, would you say, with like the email marketing, the funnels, the the kind of the promotional side of things?

Promotion, Awareness, And Reach Gaps

SPEAKER_03

I'm still amazed when I meet people who um haven't heard of my website or my products. And I don't mean that in any kind of immodest way. I just feel like I'm out there, I'm like, I'm hammering the email list and I'm on the social media, and you know, one of my products is called the Tone Protector, and it's like a it's a digital two-way humidity controlling read cap goes over your bagpipe read and it keeps it, it's like a little digital humidor for your read. And they're used everywhere from like world champion players all the way down. So I feel like it's been out for many years, selling tons of them. And I'm just amazed when people haven't heard of it. So I guess it's just a reminder that there's a really big, well, I mean, it's a it's a it's a hyper niche, bagpipes and accessories and lessons, but it's still there are people out there who haven't heard of it. So one of my goals for this year is again, just I guess it's you call that top of funnel, just like having trying to reach pipers who haven't heard of my website or haven't heard of my courses or me or my products, and just not trying to do the hard sell, but just saying, hey, there's this thing out here, people love it, people trust it, people use it, check it out, maybe it's for you. So I'd say that's probably what I'm looking at. So like the email's working well, the videos are working well. Um, I feel like, you know, I wouldn't say these products quite sell themselves, but they have a great reputation. So just trying to find pockets of pipers that are still maybe kind of like off of my the grid that I'm on, you know. I was listening to um Do you know Alex Homosi? Yeah. I don't know him, but I know about him, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I meant. Yeah. Um I was listening to him the other day talking about how like, you know, he's got so much content he's putting out there and he's doing so much promotion, whatever, and he had like some book out and he was just hammering, just trying to promote it as much as he possibly could. And he said he'll regularly just walk down the street, he'll bump into people who know him and like want to come up and say hello. And he'll ask, he was asked them at the time, like, Oh, what do you think of the new book? And they'd be like, Oh, you have a book out?

SPEAKER_00

I was just like, It's like, what do I need to do? Oh my god, doing so much promotion.

SPEAKER_01

I think as I see that a lot with um course creators, we had we had someone who uh was convinced that he was already promoting enough to his audience, so we did a survey of his audience and asked them what courses would you like um this guy to make? It's from him, so like what courses do you want me to make? And people were asking him to make courses that he had already made because they did not know they wanted to get a course on that topic and they did not know it existed. He was like, all right, okay, I guess I better do some more promotions.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, it's like, is that just a symptom of where we are in the world right now, which is so much stuff coming at us, you know? The emails and um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well that and it's like people aren't interested in the thing until they're interested in it, right? So if you're sending out promotional emails for some course and it's at a point when someone isn't ready for that topic, they're just it's like white noise, so just pass them by. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Well, it's like mattress commercials on TV. Like, there's so many mattress commercials on TV. And I remember thinking years ago, like, who are these people? Like, who are these people buying mattresses? But I guess you just have to be there. And then when that person, like every eight or 12 years or whatever, is like, mattress, there it is. Like, I guess you just have to be there, right?

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, um, yeah.

Trust As A Long-Term Strategy

SPEAKER_03

So I don't know what I don't know what the answer is if there's a uh one, I don't know if there's a silver bullet there, but just trying to do what I'm doing, making videos, posting stuff on social media. To me, trust is everything. I want my audience to know that I'm not just trying to get their money. I want customers that are happy, not only by the thing or subscribe to the thing, but are really happy about it and don't have regrets about it and would recommend it to their friends. So, you know, this is my 25th year of my website, and I try never to say anything that I would regret later. I like I want to be truthful. All the things that I sell on my shop are products that I have made or products that are made by other people that I personally use and recommend. So that's what I want people to know about my website, which is I don't have as much inventory or I don't have as many offerings as some other retailers, but everything that I have is something that I personally use and recommend. So to me, that that that trust factor is really, really important.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I absolutely love that. If someone's been listening to this and they're like, I wanna uh go check you out, maybe they're interested in learning bagpipes, or maybe they just want to go and have a look at what you what you're doing, where should they go?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so the website is bagpipelessons.com, and then I have bagpipesons as the my my uh username or handle on on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X. I just started uh posting on X again. So check it out, but check out the check out the YouTube channel, um YouTube.com slash bagpipe lessons, trying to post there.

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, or just I was watching one of your videos just before we uh just before we jumped on, and I was seeing there was some you you'd got hold of a 130-year-old bagpipe, or you thought you had, you were checking if it was verified or something like this. I was like, man, that it looked in amazing condition.

Heritage, Gear, And Viral Moments

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, really amazing story. Um so like the most famous bagpiper, bagpipe maker of all time was a guy named Peter Henderson, and he died in 1903. So, like a set of Peter Henderson bagpipes made by Peter Henderson is sort of like the holy grail, like I guess like the Strativarius of uh of bagpipes. And I think that's what these pipes are. They were in a case for 75 years and were donated to a student of mine who runs a small community band in Australia and rural Australia, and he just thought these pipes were so amazing, but he didn't have a use for them. What he needed was multiple sets of more basic bagpipes for all of his students. So we made a deal, and I have these amazing pipes here, and his band got what they needed, which is a bunch of really nice basic sets for his students. And um, yeah, I just got them recently, and I haven't even had a chance to fully like play them, but it's really a remarkable find. These from probably 1890, whatever, you know. Wow. So I think I mean that's kind of like the dream of Pipers is that to discover or to be handed or to find in a pawn shop or something that somebody found under a bed that hadn't been played, you know. Phenomenal. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

That is so cool.

SPEAKER_03

That's yeah, that's a fun thing about uh well, I mean, YouTube's amazing and you can find all sorts of great stuff on there. But just to like, okay, I got these pipes, let's turn on the camera, let's open it up, see what we have. And it's just a fun um and I'm and I'm kind of amazed, I forget that uh all the people out there that could be watching these videos, and I have like completely random friends who are not bagpipers say, Hey, I watched your video on that those bagpipes, that was really cool. Or some really famous bagpiper from Scotland says, Hey, I really love watching your YouTube channel. It's like, Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01

I got a friend, he's uh uh I mentioned him a bit on this podcast, he's uh in London as well, and he he's American, he teaches banjo. And he only started like a year and a half ago. Like it's it's it's all relatively new. Like he was already, you know, very good at playing the banjo, but he wasn't running a YouTube channel or anything. And he was out on a date the other day, and he's walking down the south bank of the Thames, and this guy comes up to him and he's like, Oh, what's this guy after? Is he after money? Is he after directions? What is it? And he looks at the guy, and the guy's got like one of those big handlebar moustaches, and he's like, wait a minute, I know that kind of mustache. That's an ironic mustache, that is. That is a banjo player, and the guy's recognized him. So it's like he's out on this date, and the guy's like, Oh my god, are you Jack from Banjo? He's like, Oh, yes I am.

Finding Fame In A Tiny Niche

SPEAKER_03

That's so great. So we were in we were in Scotland um this last summer for a wedding, and we're way up in the in the highlands northwest of Scotland, up by the Isle of Skye. And we're in this tiny little co-op grocery store in the Kyle of Loch Elge with my um with my wife, and we're just getting some groceries there because we're staying in a little Airbnb in a little village there. And as I'm we're checking out the the the grocery checker, he's like looking at me. And then, you know, I've it's like the complete, it's beautiful, beautiful part of the world, but way out there. And then as I'm finished paying and I'm bagging my like groceries and milk and eggs and whatever, he goes, You're Yori Chisholm. I said, Yeah. And he goes, I'm a piper too, but I'm not a legend like you. It was so great. And I was like, We gotta get a picture together. No, no, actually, he said, Um, there's a big line up behind us, and he said, Sorry, I'm gonna hold up the line. Can I get a selfie with you? So we got a picture together. Nice. And uh, but just wild, you know. Well, actually, then when he opened up his phone to unlock his phone to take the selfie, he had YouTube open and it was shorts, and all the shorts were my face on there. So, anyway, just like a very small, small feeling of celebrity for just a brief moment without big celebrity in the tiny niche.

SPEAKER_01

I think there's a lot of fun to that. You know, you don't have the problems of being like actually famous, but you got the fun of it, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. So, but it but it is really great to have these tools to be able to um, you know, if you have something to say, you get it out there, you know. Yeah, it's never been easier, which is really amazing. I think it's an it's just a really exciting time. Wicked.

SPEAKER_01

But if anyone wants to go check out Yuri's uh site is bagpipelessons.com or youtube.com slash bagpipelessons or bagpipe lessons on any of the other platforms as well. Yuri, thanks so much for coming on today. I really, really appreciate your time. This has been awesome.

Where To Learn More And Closing

SPEAKER_03

Thanks, John. Super fun. Good luck with the podcast and with everything else you're doing. Happy New Year.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks, man.