240 Why Does Authenticity Matter to Your Audience?

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Josh Wright is a classical pianist who's performed at Carnegie Hall, the Kennedy Center, and on America's Got Talent. He's grown a YouTube channel to over 200,000 subscribers and 20 million views, and built a whole online course business teaching piano students all over the world.

And yeah, that's all pretty cool. But maybe the more interesting part is how he actually built it.

His whole channel is built around sharing his weaknesses. Not in some cringe, overly vulnerable way... just honestly. "Here's what I struggle with, here's how I fixed it." And his audience loves him for it. He actually calls it the superpower of the channel, which I think is a really good way to put it.

So we got into why that works. Because I think a lot of course creators feel this pull toward seeming more professional, more polished, more put-together online. And Josh's experience is kind of the opposite. The more real he is, the more people trust him and want to learn from him.

We also talked about the fear of promotion, which comes up a lot with course creators. Josh was pretty open about how uncomfortable he used to be with it and how he eventually got over it. If you've ever felt a bit weird about putting your stuff out there, that part of the conversation is worth a listen on its own.

Really good episode. Hope you enjoy it.

🎹 Check out Josh's work:
🔗 www.joshwrightpiano.com
🔗 youtube.com/joshwrightpiano
🔗 facebook.com/joshwrightpiano
🔗 instagram.com/joshwrightpiano
🔗 Courses: https://learn.joshwrightpiano.com/

#OnlineCourses #SalesFunnels #CourseCreators #DigitalMarketing

🤝  Get In Touch
If you'd like to talk more about how you can grow your course business, email me at john@datadrivenmarketing.

Transcript

Breaking The Classical Music Mystique

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This whole arrogance and ego and secrecy around classical music and the secrets that I won't tell you really always bothered me. So I said, you know, I'm gonna start a YouTube channel and just share all the secrets. It's not like, oh, he's so lacking because he can't do this weird little tremolo or something, or oh my gosh, he's unstoppable because he can do these octaves. It was a good demonstration that we all struggle with different things and sharing how I've helped students who have had that problem overcome them has been a really good way to connect with people. The more I live my life, the more I'm just like, why would I try to hide behind this facade of perfectionism? You can't be a super genuine person and not admit that you struggle with something. The very best of professionals are usually the most kind, the most genuine, the most relatable.

Meet Josh Wright And His Courses

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Hello and welcome to the Art of Selling Online Courses. We are here to share winning strategies, secret hacks, from top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth, and today's guest is Josh Wright. Now, Josh is a Billboard number one classical pianist who's performed at Carnegie Hall, the Kennedy Centre, and on America's Got Talent. What makes him especially interesting is what he's built online. He's grown a YouTube channel to over 200,000 subscribers and 20 million views, and he's turned the audience into a thriving online course business, creating video courses for piano students of all ages and abilities around the world. Josh, welcome to the show, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

So who is it that you are helping with your courses?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

We uh I target pianists of all levels. Um I started out with uh more advanced material, so a lot of people thought of me as, oh, like he's the advanced YouTube guy. Um, but over the years I've expanded that to all levels. My wife, uh, she's also a brilliant pianist who has her doctorate in piano, and um, she wrote an entire early beginner course that we worked on together. I did the filming, she wrote the whole thing, uh, so she definitely did the heavy lifting. Um, so we added that to the course. Um we have a mid to late beginner section, intermediate section, then obviously advanced uh inside the course. My YouTube channel uh targets all sorts of different technical and musical problems that pianists come across in their study.

Practice That Actually Improves

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Nice. I uh I don't know if you can see at the moment, but there's a piano in the background here. My flatmate is uh my flatmate is learning piano, and uh he is he's a trumpeter and he played that for many years, and he was like, you know what, I'm gonna learn the piano. And so he started totally from scratch, bought a piano, and um is he's just so it's it's almost annoying how dependable it is that he's gonna do his practice like every day, exactly the correct way. You know, he sees his piano teacher and he gets exactly how to do the practice, and then like we'll have these debates and like uh uh like what is exactly the best form of practice that fits with everything that we understand about like the way the brain works, and like we'll have conversations about myelin. And I was just watching one of your videos about um the uh it's that if you're practicing every day but not improving, watch this. Um, I think it's a very recent one, right? And uh, I was just like, okay, yeah, that fits a lot with some of the conversations that we've been having. I'm I play bass and uh I'm like, oh every time he practices, I'm like, I better go practice as well. I better otherwise he's gonna catch up and he's gonna overtake me. Um so I I love what you're doing there, it looks awesome. I think there's so much stuff that's like um it's it's almost like if you if you've studied properly, you learn whatever, then you kind of just maybe take it for granted. Like you're talking about in that video, right? You're saying like when you're practicing, people are uh taking on far too much in one go. And then it's like, but here's a way to break it down. It's just that those kinds of tips for people, just available for free, is just amazing. It's like that just you know, can you imagine 20 years ago that just didn't exist, right? You just you had a teacher or you didn't kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Um I was really fortunate because I have just four amazing teachers in my life. Um, my grandma was my first teacher for five years, and she was like a full-time piano teacher. She was never concert pianist level or anything, but she was a great, great music teacher, big legacy in Utah, uh, which is where I live. And then I went to Susan Dohlmeyer. Uh, she was the head of the piano department at the University of Utah uh when I was nine, and she took me on, luckily, and I studied with her. I still go take a few lessons a year with her, even now, you know, as almost I'm 38 now. So I've been studying with her for over 30 or about 30 years now. Um I did some private studies with Sergei Babayan, who I consider to be um the best pianist in the world. He's my favorite pianist. Um a lot of people don't know.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Man, that's cool, isn't it? Like if that's your you think he's the best pianist in the world and you got to study with him. Yes, cool. Yeah, it was incredible.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Um most people know his student, Daniel Trifonov, who is probably the most famous young pianist in the world. Um, but not everybody knows Sergei Babayan. He's he's pretty popular in the classical music world, but oh my gosh, he's mind-blowing. And then um I did my doctoral studies at the University of Michigan with uh Logan Skelton, who was so uh brilliant as well. So I was really lucky to have those teachers. And one of the things that always really bothered me, probably because of my upbringing, uh, you know, my mom was like the head cheerleader at her high school and just the most lovable person you could ever imagine. And I don't know anyone who doesn't like her, unless they're a narcissist or something. Um and my dad's a stonemason. I mean, he puts stone on houses and fireplaces and mailboxes, things like that. Um, so we grew up working really hard. So there this whole arrogance and ego and secrecy around classical music and the secrets that I won't tell you really always bothered me. So I said, you know, I'm gonna start a YouTube channel and just share all the secrets. And um and people really like that because uh a lot of people don't have access to good teachers in their area. I mean, so many people from remote places like the Hebrides Islands or remote places in India or even just in the US, like you know, oh, I live in the Midwest in this tiny little town, and I have no access to an advanced teacher. That's kind of what I was trying to uh bridge the gap with uh so far as the YouTube channel. And it's been really fun. And I at this point I'm sharing disc I mean, I I take a few lessons a year with Susan still, um, which are brilliant. Uh but at the at this point, uh I mostly am just sharing personal discoveries and things I discover in my own teaching because a lot of students, you know, like you you teach them a lesson and you're like, I'm not connecting with this student. How do I teach it differently? And sometimes you'll find an unlock that you'd never considered because you have to tailor it to that student. So it's been a really fun journey and I look forward to doing it for many more years to come.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

And when did you start the YouTube channel?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I started it in 2009. Um I'm mostly just a while, isn't it? I mostly at the beginning did it for uh just competition recordings and just just as like a personal journal of documenting a few performances, sharing it with family and friends. And then I thought, you know, let me let me film a few tutorials because I was annoyed at my own students for when I would go back to their houses. Because at that point I was quite young, I would go to my students' houses and they would say, I forgot what you told me last week. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna film a YouTube video, and so you don't have an excuse anymore. And they liked it. And um uh it was a very efficient way of teaching because I could say, Okay, I'm gonna teach you this concept in the lesson, but then I've got this YouTube video that you can go watch. And then, you know, just within a few videos, at the end of the video, I said, here's my email address. If anyone has questions, I was like, maybe a few people email in over the course of you know a year. And I started getting consistent emails from, you know, I think Claudio from Switzerland or something like that. I still remember that one. He's like, My two girls are studying piano, they need help with X. And that was one of my first videos, is for his girls. And that was just so exciting to see, oh, this could have a lot of reach, even if it's not making money. Um, I didn't even monetize the channel for three or four years. Um, and then I started doing paid courses at the request of somebody on the channel. Again, he was actually one of my private students, but he had found me on YouTube and he's like, Could you make a whole hour-long tutorial on Claire Delune by WC? I'd pay you for it for that. And I thought, let me do this for the public too. And I charged a few dollars for the tutorial at the beginning and uh really caught on. People liked it. So I've been doing that since 2014. Wow.

Publishing Rhythm And Short Form

SPEAKER_00 9:14

That's uh it's a really similar story to ones I hear from a uh a lot of people, is that nearly everyone I talk to, nearly all the course creators I work with or interview, they started YouTube almost kind of like you, as a way of just like, oh, I'm already teaching people this in person. Let me let me get it, it's a way of hosting it, I can kind of get it out there, and then fell into courses because it's like, oh, that's what people wanted. Um, and I think what's what I love about that, and it's so many course creators, probably a lot of the people listening, they're doing this thing because they're really passionate about it. It wasn't like how can I start a business, what niche shall I choose? It was like, no, no, no, no, I really care about quilting or teaching piano or whatever it is. Oh, and then it kind of all escalated from there. It's a beautiful thing. What's the I think your your YouTube audience is like your biggest the biggest audience, right? Versus Okay, cool. Yeah. Um how often are you doing videos on there?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

So uh I tried to put out um one new long form content, uh piece of content a week. Um, some months it's two to three pieces, uh, but I shoot for four. Um and last year I hired uh video editor. She's been absolutely amazing, and um she's helped me, so I've been pumping out a lot of short form content until last year. I think I had five pieces of short form content ever. Really bad. Um but she uh has a real talent for I I just send her my old I mean she just has access to my YouTube channel and she'll download the old videos and then she'll make a short form uh out of that. And um that's been doing quite well. People seem to really like that. It it definitely targets a different demographic. You might show up in the suggested feed. People may not have been searching for your long form videos, but that's been helpful as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Do you know if a lot of your long form stuff is found through search versus discovery, or do you do you know what the balance is?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Um I could pull up the analytics if you want it. Uh but I I know it's some of both, uh, just off the cuff. I do know some of it's search, but a lot of it is discovery.

Email List And Offer Ladder

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Aaron Powell Because I just found with um with YouTube channels that the kind of the value might not be quite the right word, but like of people who are coming in from search is quite different. Because if someone's come from search, that they're after what it is, they've already got the intent of of trying to find what you're you're creating, and so they're really paying attention and trying to find the right thing. Whereas Discovery, it's more like, oh, that looks kind of interesting, and then they might stick around, they might not, you know. So I just find it makes a really big difference. But no, no, no need to kind of look it up. How many um how big's your email list now?

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Uh it's about around 70,000. Okay, nice. And do you send out a lot of like email promotions throughout the year? So I usually hold two big sales uh for those I mean, I'm sure everybody on this uh podcast knows what these offers are, but you've got lead magnets, like free stuff, low ticket, you know, of course around$100 or less,$25 to$100, mid-ticket, which can be several hundred, and then high ticket, which can be several hundred to into the thousands. For the lead magnets, um do a web a free webinar, do a memorizing guide. Um for my low ticket, I do a technique course. So these are like the foundations of uh piano technique. My mid-ticket has over 500 videos, it's it's everything I've ever put out in that pro practice course. I do a I do a separate course called the VIP masterclass series, which is kind of an add-on. It doesn't really fit in low ticket, doesn't really fit in mid-ticket. It's a it's a way to increase lifetime value of my customers. Um and honestly, that was another course born out of request and necessity. People like, I want to write it like your pro practice tutorials, like the full-length one-hour tutorials are great. But I have a specific question about measure 20 to 25. Like, I need help with that. And I can't answer all of those requests via email. Like I would be a full-time computer uh you know, answering emails full-time. And so that I do a new video each week for members of that course. And then last year I actually launched uh live group coaching. My my private studio was full and people were still wanting one-off lessons, and it just got out of hand. So I was like, I I'm gonna do a live group coaching. So uh that was really fun too. Sorry, I think I got off topic. What was the original question? I I was going somewhere with that. I was asking how often do you do email promotions? Oh, right. So twice a year I'll do um I'll do big sale, a spring sale. I usually do that in May, and then I obviously do Black Friday sale for mid-ticket stuff. Um I run promotions through Facebook ads throughout the year uh and Google ads as well. Uh but yeah, for the big courses, usually just twice a year um on Black Friday and the spring sale. And then do you do any promos for like the smaller ones in between at all? I usually just run those on ads. So um Yeah. So I'll do 50% off um on ads. So my technique course is priced at$197, uh, but I will do uh Facebook and Google ads for$97. Um so it's 50% off if somebody clicks on the ad and buys it that way. And then I mean if you're comfortable sharing it, how much are you spending on ads a month?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Sure. Probably maybe$5,000 at this point per month. Oh wow, okay, cool. Nice. And that's is it profitable off the bat, or is it like kind of break even at the front and then you make money later with those people? How does that work? Both. Yeah, it it is profitable.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Um I I clearly always uh you know dictate a I will not run an ad into the red. Um obviously I'll I'll usually run it. Uh I've I actually hired a coach who's amazing uh last January 2025, and he helped me kind of turn my business around. I really wasn't doing much advertising at all. I was just running, you know, a couple little Google ads and that's it. Um and he's like, you really need to get this up because the whole purpose of advertising is to sell uh is to either get lead magnets or low tickets out there, and then you can upsell them into mid-ticket um or high-ticket offers. And so uh it is profitable. I'll usually run each ad set to about 30 to 50 bucks and dollars. Um aren't you in Australia? I don't know the link. No, no, I'm in London. No, but I think everyone knows American uh terminology nowadays. Yeah, yeah. So thirty to fifty dollars, um, and then I'll cut it, you know, if it's just not performing, or if the clicks are really bad, I can just shut it off after a couple days. Just run it for five bucks a day, and then you can start scaling it. But that's something I really hate doing is advertising. I'm very self-conscious about it. Uh but it it was necessary. My wife's like, look, you've got all this great content. I've had a lot of people reprimand me over email. Like, why are you not advertising, Josh? I just found your course, and it's like it's so nice. They're like, oh, it's so life-changing. Like, I wish I'd had this five years ago. If you had done a better job advertising, I could have found you earlier. You know, it's like, okay, I think a change is needed in my business.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

That's really nice, isn't it? Because a lot of people are really worried with ads or or any kind of promotion about like, oh, is everyone gonna pay me for it, you know? Oh yeah, sorry, I interrupted you. What what'd you say? Yeah, a lot of people, I bet a lot of people listening, have a feeling about ads or or promotion of any kind that like, oh, everyone's gonna feel like I'm too salesy or I'm uh being too self-serving, or it's like um it's a bit scummy doing it that way. I I see that a lot within the course creator kind of community. Whereas actually what you're hearing from your audience is you're doing them a disservice by not advertising to them.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yes, and that's a hard thing to do as an individual. You're like, who wants my stuff? I know there's piano students out there that need it, but it's like, who am I to like force my stuff on you? And I'm not saying, oh my stuff's gonna work for you every time. Because like some people don't resonate with my style of teaching. That's totally fine. But um, at the same time, it is important to get out there and you are going to offend people. I have people get on my ads sometimes and uh are super mean or vulgar. Uh it's quite rare, but like it does happen. Um, or people will make fun, you know. I used to have long hair, like half the comments would be, Oh yeah, you should get a haircut. And it's like, oh, I'm so glad that's what you got out of this piano. You know. So um, but yeah, it my and my wife, she's like my therapist as well. She's like, you know, Josh, she's like, you you gotta you gotta do it for the people who need this. And you have to put up with that crap, you know, in order to reach the people who really need this. And and once I started taking that view, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna offend some people, I'm gonna annoy some people, but I'm also gonna help a lot of people who are hungry for some sort of resource online that can help them uh take things to a higher level. And I'm not saying there's not plenty of piano teachers out there, there are, but sometimes people need extra inspiration with a unique view. Like that's why as pianists we do masterclasses. We go study with other teachers on one-off lessons to get new perspectives. Even if we love our primary teacher, my Susan, the teacher I mentioned earlier, she had us do countless master classes. Oh, this person's in town. Go do a lesson with them. Let's see if we can get a different perspective, which is uh, you know, hats off to her for being so humble and such an amazing teacher. But that's I think what people are craving. Um and so you have to be tough if you're gonna get into the course creation business. Like you have to have a thick skin and you have to filter out the mean comments. It's not that you you're unteachable either. Like if everybody's saying, I wish I could see your pedal, and I'm like, for years, no, I'm not gonna show an ugly foot shot in my videos, you know, and now I show them, you know, because people want to do what I'm changing the pedal. It's not that you can't take critiques, but you do have to have a thick skin to not be offended if somebody says something mean. Uh because you are you do have that higher purpose of like, I need to help the people who don't have these resources um that I've been blessed with.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

So yeah, I think if you change the perspective like that, then it makes it a lot easier because it's not about you anymore. It's about the people you're trying to help. Which is really what most course creators is what they care about already. So it's like if you think, okay, well, out there there I'm gonna show these ads and it's gonna be seen by whatever, let's say 500,000 people. And out of those, there's 30,000 who this really matters to. My voice is gonna speak to them, they're gonna like my style of learning, it's gonna help them to move forward faster, they're gonna be able to become a better pianist, they're going to feel better about themselves, they're gonna have more fun doing it, they're going to be able to inspire other people. It's like, oh, okay, right. Well, if you just focus on that 30,000 and go, I'm really sorry, 470,000 other people who don't like my hair or whatever the fuck, you know. I'm really sorry, but I've got to reach this 30,000. That's my job, you know. I'm gonna do my best to get in front of those guys. Then all of a sudden it's like, okay, well, it's not about me, it's about them. I can I can kind of relax that a little bit. And I think that there's a lot of people listening at the moment who that's a message they need to hear. Because I I again and again, it's like, because that's because I see people struggle with this. I see course creators struggle with this a lot.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Absolutely. I mean, are you offended if you see a billboard for Ferrari or uh Walmart or something? Uh no. You know, you're like, oh, they're advertising. But then when you do it, you're like, I'm going to offend people. And it's like, yes, we there are, I mean, even in the piano world, there's a guy, I'm not gonna name his name because he's probably a cool dude, but gosh, his ads are so annoying. But I'm like, you know, like they're really in your face. He's shouting at you the whole time, you know, through his ad. Uh but at the same time, it's like some people like that energy. And so just because I don't like it, guess what? There's this magic feature, those three little buttons you can click and say, Don't show me this ad again, if it's really annoying you that much, you know, or people that are like, I just can't stand all these YouTube videos. I was like, you don't have to watch my stuff. So if people really are, you know, you don't you can click those three dots and say, Don't show me this ad again, and it won't show you that ad again. Yeah, I think you know, if you look at percentages, as humans, we always grab. Towards negative uh comments. So, oh, we we had you know 5,000 views on this video, it got 50 comments, and one was super mean. We're just thinking about that one comment. We're not thinking about the 5,000 we reached, we're not thinking about the 49 other people who were saying, thank you, like I needed this. It's that one mean comment. And a lot of times it's ridiculous, a ridiculous comment. And a lot of times if you actually if you reframe it, kind of like we're reframing ads, if you reframe mean comments, that person probably has self-confidence issues and you know, needs some mental needs a reality check, or maybe they're struggling with mental health. I remember one time somebody got on, or I think they emailed me, because I don't even read comments after the first day or two. Uh that's like a rule I set up for myself a long time ago. I'll read the first 24 to 48 hours worth of comments because uh those are usually my most loyal followers, obviously, if they're seeing it within one day. Um, but some guy emailed me and and like wrote out this whole thing about my performance of Rachman and off third concerto, which if anyone knows that, it's one of the tough pieces of the piano repertoire. And um I said, Oh, great, can you point me to your performance so I can watch it? You know, kind of, well, I'm a beginner pianist, I can't play any of it. And I'm like, then why are you sending me this email? And people will come back with, just because I'm not advanced doesn't mean I can't have my opinion. And I said, Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

But at the same time, but keep it to yourself for God's sake. Yes, don't get too about it.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

To all the course creators, you know, self-conscious about advertising or getting down about mean comments, you know, remember that story. My goodness.

New Lead Magnets And Scaling Offers

SPEAKER_00 23:48

I love that response. That's like, you you know he doesn't have one. And it's just like, great, let's have let's have this conversation. Um so what's what's the focus for you uh now? Like, what do you want to kind of work on with your email marketing or with your your funnels or like the business? Like, what's kind of next?

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, uh something that I am not very good at is coming up with new low-ticket offers or new lead magnets. You know, I spend a lot of time on that webinar, and I was like, that thing can kind of run by itself for a long, long time. That's gonna help people for years. I I filmed another webinar, it was back in 2017. I ran that thing for like seven years. Because my stuff is um timeless in the sense that like classical music has been around so long. It's not like here's how to code in this program and it's you know out of date in six months or something. Or here's like uh my friend who taught me a lot of this. I should name uh I should mention him because he helped me so much. His name is Parker Wahlbeck. He runs one of the most you maybe you've email uh maybe you've interviewed him, he runs full-time filmmaker. No, I don't know, but I'd love to I'd love to have a chat with him. That'd be cool. Amazing. I mean, I think he he and his brothers have sold over 20 million in uh their videography course, but um he kind of helped me a lot. And he's like, you know, your stuff is pretty timeless. He's like, I'm reviewing, oh, the Canon 5D Mark III, and it's like, oh, within a few years I've got to review the Mark IV. Oh, now I've got to review this new Canon mirrorless camera. Whereas, oh, I did a tutorial on WC's Claire de Loon. That's not going out of style. Maybe my teaching style uh changes a little and I can add something to that, but um it it's pretty timeless. Those can run a long time. So I could it's easy in my business to, or at least for me, to just like just go with the flow, keep doing what you're doing. And I think there is value in that. I think that's people always think, I need a new business, I need a new business. Like I think actually sticking with something for a long time is valuable, but something I'm not good at is what's a new lead magnet I could come up with. Uh which is like for those again, those of you the who are new to this, lead magnets can be anything like that's just free that you exchange for their information, and then you can market to them afterward. Like you can offer them your other products and they can unsubscribe or they buy your stuff, or they just sit on your email list indefinitely and never do anything.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

That's allowed, right? It's allowed.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Um but yeah, coming up with new lead magnets, new low-ticket items would be something that I need to focus on more because I am so focused on creating value in that uh mid-ticket course, the lifetime access course, where they have I I always want to be adding new stuff to that. I'm very invested in my private students, and I'm very invested in that live group coaching. So it's easy just to let the low stuff, uh, you know, the free stuff and the low tickets go by the wayside. Because I I think the the technique course is also kind of evergreen. Like that's never gonna go out of style the way I teach scales, arpeggios, triad, seventh chords, each each one of those videos, I do a different key, like, oh, this is the key of C. Let's go over this unique way of practicing them. So by the time you're done with this course, you have all these new ways of practicing that you can apply to your repertoire. That's not gonna go out of style, but there are plenty of people who don't want a course on technique, but man, they would really benefit from a mini course about reducing tension for$27. You know, they might buy that, you know, and and that's something that I'm not very good at. So is coming up with new material like that. And then obviously advertising I don't enjoy, but I'm getting better at it. I'm forcing myself to get better at it.

unknown 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

What's the bit that uh that's the the sticking point with the low-ticket courses? Is it coming up with the idea for it or actually then mapping it out and and recording it and that whole you know process?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah, I think it's coming up with an idea that I could commit to long term. So I know that I could do a whole course about memorizing, I could do a whole course about reducing tension, uh note reading. These are I have a the the free webinar that I have right now actually just goes over the four main pain points. Stage frights, the last one. Um so I could do whole mini courses on that, but I'm like, like, do I want to be advertising at$27? Because it's hard to uh when you're first starting out advertising, I started the um the low ticket at like$47 just for a few days and it just wasn't profitable at all. So I was like, we gotta go to$97. So rather than offering 75% off. And so offering a$27 course, I is tough, you know, because you've got to get enough audience out there. Yes, more people will buy it at$27 than$97, but do you have enough to cover your ad costs? And I I've had that experience every time I've done that. I did that back with my friend, the full-time filmmaker guy in 2017. He's like, you gotta up the price. He's like, because like we're burning through money. He helped me with just some basics of advertising. I was like, okay, so uh I think back then we did it for$127, you know, and so it was um, you know, even more expensive than I'm able to do now. But it's finding that threshold for me that's really hard of like, what's a what's a low-ticket offer that I could offer that could still be profitable as I advertise it? Because the whole point of advertising in low tickets is to, you know, grow your list so that you can then provide more value with your mid-ticket or high-ticket offers.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

So I see kind of where you're coming from with this, I think. You're talking about coming up with low-ticket things in order to be able to advertise more. Is that correct? Yeah, low tickets that can scale. Yeah. Okay. Because the other option, and something that I encourage people to do a lot, is have more offers that are about the kind of maybe 99 to 299 dollar kind of price point for promoting to the email list. Because if you look at you're doing two big sales a year to your to your email list at the moment, right? We've done a lot of testing, a lot, and we found that in terms of revenue, the sweet spot, and also in terms of not annoying the audience too much, but kind of getting a higher revenue, the sweet spot is uh have an email promotion about once a month.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Most like 99% of course creators do two or three promotions a year. So, like what you're doing is like the absolute norm. Like, I can I it's it's virtually everybody I talk to. But when people start doing one promotion a month, and in that promotion, including a way for someone to opt out of that particular promotion. So if they're like, oh, I don't want to hear any more about this course, the the reducing tension course, but I still want to be on your email list, there's like a big obvious button, an easy way to get off that promotion for that week. Um that leads to a lot more sales. Now, making a course that is a fit for your email list is much easier than making a course that's a fit for ads, because the fit for ads one has to be something that it's got to be at that sweet spot in terms of price, like you say. It's got to be in line with what it is that the audience already knows they need, so that um you don't have to do too much convincing in the ad or on the sales page or whatever. You've got to make a great sales page for it because if it's gonna convert with ads, it's got to be absolutely perfect fit. Really need an upsell that that is gonna increase your average order value, that's a good fit with the main products. So the kind of people who are buying one are likely to buy the next one. So there's a lot of things you have to get right. When you're doing an uh an offer to your email list, it's already the warmest people. It's the people who already know you, like you, have quite possibly bought something from you before. Um, and one option there is taking stuff that's in your main course and like splintering it out and going, okay, well, you can just buy this couple of modules that go together. Not everyone wants to buy the full the what how much does your your full course cost? The main one?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Uh 797, and I can run promotions down to like 597 or Black Friday's 497. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

So maybe you don't want to spend six hundred bucks on this, but you would be willing to spend 149 on this bit from it, that kind of thing. Right. I think that would be now some of those, if you made some of those individual courses, might well work with ads. But you if you were not if you were making them for an email promotion and then testing it with ads, there's a lot less pressure on absolutely knowing that this must work with ads, otherwise it wasn't worth making in the first place, you know. Sure. So this is my perspective for you. Uh what's your what's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah, it's interesting. I think that testing things is something that as course creators we sometimes shy away from. Like, let's just let's just keep doing what's working. And uh because I certainly have goodwill with my audience because I put out so much free content, and that's always been the main driver of sales, is just like I just put out new stuff all the time with no expectation of anything. And then when you you know give away 80% of your stuff for free, even all even all those paid videos, I put out a good portion of them for free on YouTube. So I'll I'll usually do like a 10 to 20 minute sample of the hour-long video as a marketing tool as well, but also for those who just want to get a good head start on the piece and don't want to buy the whole thing. Um, so that when you do actually do a sale, people are like, oh, okay, he's really helped me. Like in yeah, I'll I'll buy his course. And it's not a ploy. Like, even if like I'm not trying to say like I'm trying to trick you into buying from me. It's it's more of like this is kind of like a life's mission, I feel like, of like, I want to help as many people as I can with piano, but I still have to like feed my family. So you know, good idea, yes. Um so there is an element that's baked into that. But yeah, I think that as course creators, it's so easy for us to just okay, I'm gonna put out more free organic content. I'm gonna just pump out more paid videos inside my course rather than really trying to parse it out like you'd said, and uh, why don't you experiment with segmenting your course in an interesting way? And I have done that before. I've done an early beginner course, a mid I basically just each section of the course, but I pair it way down. So, like, oh, this is a 30 video mini course for the you know mid to late beginner level. And people do like that. I'm always amazed that people won't spend the extra$100 or$200. Because I I just I sell each video as well. Um, this is probably a terrible thing business-wise, but I do sell each pro practice video individually for$14. I can't. But if you can imagine, uh just at the end of each video, I say if you want this full tutorial, let me know. And then inside the course module, when they purchase it, there's a upgrade button, you know, to the full course. Um, but it is amazing to me. Some people just like the organization of like, oh, I've got like my little advanced mini course here, um, even though the value is so small compared to just a couple hundred dollars or a hundred dollars more, I don't depending on when they buy it. Um, you know, because a$30 mini course at$14 per video, I better get my calculator, make sure this is the way you know,$14 times$30, yeah, is like$420. So you you you bring it down to you know$397 or something. And for$597, if you watch the webinar special, oh, you can get the full course. Um, and you'll get$470 plus more videos. But some people like that. And so it's an interesting idea that you're proposing, just segmenting, doing a smaller offer, and then offering them an upgrade, you know, at the Black Friday sell. Oh, I'll give you a full credit back for your previous purchase as well. Um, that's an interesting idea. So I like that.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Do you know I don't know how many other uh creators you know in the in the um piano space? Do you know Ashley Young or Nate Turep Terepka?

SPEAKER_01 35:37

I've um I think you had mentioned Ashley uh in one of your emails, so I I listened to the podcast. That was very interesting.

Relatability Through Weakness

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, she's doing oh, so you've already heard that one. Okay, cool, that's good. She's doing um a lot on ads and and sends out her her promos regularly. She's like inspired a bunch of people to be like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do my more regular promotion. She was great. What's the uh I wanna change tack a little bit. There's something that you'd said before we uh before we jumped on the call about how one of the things that you're good at is sharing weaknesses, and how a lot of your audience have commented how that makes you more relatable. Is that something that you'd deliberately done? Is that just kind of who you are and like that just came across? How's that how's that come around?

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Um, I think it goes with the mission of the channel. So it's like here's how to solve problems, and so a lot of times I am the um test subject. So I'm like, with with this, and this is how I overcame it. Um people like that. Um they like to see not a perfectly polished thing because there are pianists out there who really don't make many mistakes at all. I've competed with a lot of them, they're amazing. Um, but they're hard to relate to because it's like, well, I can't play perfectly. Um and they would actually be the first ones to tell you that they struggle with things too, they're very humble as well. It's not uh self-deprecation just for the sake of being relatable, but it's just reality of like, hey, I have weaknesses, let me show you how I fixed these, and people like that. And and I may not have the same weaknesses as other students. I I have a student. Um, I taught him since he was nine years old, and he said, uh, I think I want to work on this octaves piece by Liszt. Um it's actually a piece and it goes so fast. Um I'm not warmed up at all, and that sounds terrible. But uh he he's like within three days, he was 14 years old. And I like my jaw was like on the floor. I was like, how did you do that? Because I know it wasn't something I taught him, because I taught him since he was nine. And he's like, I can just do that. But there was another place, this little tremolo in Jadot, like going back and forth. He could not do that for the life of him. And I'm like, I was like, how is this kid who can play octaves as fast as like the best professionals? I'm not exaggerating when I say that. Like he's he's faster than Evgeny Kisson, who's a very famous pianist in that Earl King. It was just amazing. Um, but how can he not do this? And it just went to show me it's not like, oh, he's he's so lacking because he can't do this weird little tremolo or something, um, or oh my gosh, he's unstoppable because he can do these octaves. It was a good demonstration that we all struggle with different things. And so sharing how I either have solved my own issues, or if I haven't had the problem, um, because I haven't had all the problems, you know, uh some things come naturally to me.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Some things you yeah, some things are easier for you, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Totally. Yeah. And so um sharing how I've helped students who have had that problem overcome them has been a really good way to connect with people. And and the more I live my life, uh the more I'm just like, why would I try to hide behind this facade of perfectionism? Because that again, that kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier. Like growing up with the parents I did um who were so real and very encouraging. I I I forgot to mention, like they were unbelievably supportive throughout my life of me pursuing piano. I I think most parents would be like, okay, yeah, that's nice, but are you gonna get in? So um that's enough now, dear. Yeah. So um anyway, uh yeah, he was like, like my dad uh he just loved, you know, listening to me play, and my mom was at every one of my concerts. Um and my dad was too. Uh but like my dad would just come in and just listen to me play, and because he didn't really have those opportunities. And so it goes back to that whole idea of why would I try to be this perfect pianist and put on this facade of perfectionism? Now, doesn't mean that I'm sloppy in all my recordings. I only like to put out like recordings of pieces, not tutorials. Tutorials I can mess up in and say, oh, let me show you how I'll fix this. I'm cool with that. But like I'm not gonna put um a super sloppy recording out there of a piece because it'll just get demolished by the other, you know, however many hundreds of amazing performances they are online. So I'm not about, you know, being lazy, but showing people that you have weaknesses, showing them how to fix it, or if you haven't had that particular weakness, showing them how you've helped other students fix it. That's like the whole purpose of the channel. How can we overcome these problems at the piano? What's the easiest and quickest way to do it? Because if you just sit and slog through it, eventually you'll probably get it. Um, but it might take you two years. Whereas if you had one piece of advice, oh my gosh, that can save you hours, weeks, months, sometimes, sometimes even years if you have the right piece of advice. And that's what the channel's aimed toward. So that's the whole uh to to wrap up your question of like, you know, what's the superpower of the channel? Oh, it's actually sharing weaknesses, it's kind of funny. But but that's it it's so we can solve them. And and so people realize, oh, like pianists aren't, you know, at a professional level, pianists aren't infallible. Because I got I got to a very good level. Like, you know, I was competing in really big competitions. I wasn't winning the biggest competitions, but even just to be able to compete in them is quite difficult to like get accepted into them. So I was competing with Daniel Trifonoff. You know, I I did a competition with him, he he got third, I got cut in the first round, right? So it's like I wasn't at his level, but at the same time, you know, I was among that pool of pianists, so I got to a high level. Um, but I I also am not trying to hide behind the fact that, like, oh, I competed in this competition, so I'm perfect. You know, it it's like I competed there, and it was a lot of pressure, but I had all these roadblocks along the way. Let me break down how I overcame those. And so that's been a good way to connect with people because people will say, like, oh my gosh, I had this exact problem, or I don't have this problem, but I have this problem. Can you help me with that? Oh, yeah, let's do another video on that. So it's just kind of this this never-ending machine. I that's why I think I could do this my whole life. I don't know if I will. I think I will, but I don't know if I will. Um but it there's never enough material that you'll run like there's never um a limited amount of material. You'll never run out of things to talk about and weaknesses to overcome, um, or how other people are overcoming those weaknesses. Sorry, that was pretty long, but uh you're good, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Um, I ask a lot of people some of these same kind of questions, like when when they're coming on the podcast, like what's the most controversial thing you believe, or what's something you think the others don't, or what do you do well? And one of the things that comes through just again and again and again is about being authentic and like how important it is for a few reasons, I guess. One is that people can tell when you're not, and then if you are authentic, then your people will find you, and the ones who don't like you are kind of pushed away from it. And I think also it's just like I don't know, yeah. I think it just it's it's important to people that they find someone who it's like, oh, I can tell that really is what they're like. And so I was chatting with someone the other day about it. It was saying that he was like, Well, I am me, but I'm like a a a slightly less sweary, uh more re like a nicer version of me when I'm on YouTube. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just I'm just me. I'm just I don't know, maybe I'd do better if I was a little more polished or something. Like that, but I'm like, yeah, you just get kind of how I am. I kind of I think a number of years ago, I was just like, I'm too tired of trying to put on a put on a front about anything. It's just like people just get kind of what I'm like. But that's it's I think it's such a big deal. It seems to be such a big deal because everybody keeps talking about it. And this is all you know, the only people or mostly the people coming on the podcast have got like hundreds of thousands or sometimes millions of subscribers on YouTube. So it's like it must be it must be something important there, you know? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

And I just look at who I like to um you know spend time with, just uh friends, family. I like to spend time with authentic people and people who try to put on a front of I, you know, I don't like to spend time with those people. I I have to sometimes, you know, if you have a family member, no no one in my immediate family, but like, you know, extended family, like you're like, I don't really want to go hang around that person because I know they'll just be talking about themselves the whole time, or they'll be telling me how perfect everything is, whereas like behind closed doors, you know they're struggling. It's like, just tell me what the problem is. Like, I'd love to talk about that and like help if I can, just like I would tell you if I was having an issue. And I think that what you said of like being authentic or being genuine, um, that's what that whole discussion about weakness is. Like, you you can't be, you know, a super genuine person and not admit that you struggle with something. I I mean, I it's not that you have to be like apologetic, like let me tell you all the horrible things I did in this performance. Like, you don't have to like start with that, but at the same time, if somebody asks you, oh yeah, I'll show you what I did. And being willing to share, I remember I took a lesson with a teacher one time and I said, I've always struggled with this uh Chopin Etude, uh the opus 10 number two. It's it's dreadfully difficult to play. I could, I mean, I could sight read it, you know, slowly, like probably day one. Like I'd learned it when I was quite young. But like if you gave it to me now, it's almost sight readable. It's not hard. It is so hard to play fast. And 99% of pianists would tell you the same thing because it's targeting your third, fourth, and fifth finger in rapid succession. It's it's uh this one. So it gets that is really, really hard. And so um I said, uh, he said, yeah, I've I've taught this to many different students. And he's like, I've got all the fingerings worked out to you know have um the least amount of attention. Like I slaved over that. I was like, oh, would you be willing to share that document with me? It's literally just his finger numbers. Oh no, I wouldn't share that because if you shared it with other people, like the secret would get out. I was like, give me a break. And it's like, it's like he acted like he had this treasure trove, and it's like there might be like two or three little things that might help, you know, me uncover some new thing, but it's like that unwillingness to share, that that lack of um you know transparency. And that's what I always try to be is transparent on my channel. It's not that, you know, I want to just beat myself up, it's that I want to show you here's the problem, here's how to fix it. And that I think, like you said, is is what shows authentic behavior. I know that people that I've looked up to, when they talk about things that they've struggled with, I'm like, oh, they're human. And then you start to connect with that person. And so it it I think forms deeper connections than you otherwise would to be authentic, not to try to be a polished version of yourself. I always dress up, you know, for my videos because I want it to appear um a certain way. I want it to look professional. I think first impressions are a big thing. Um, but at the same time uh I talk very relatably, hopefully. Maybe not polished. I probably have a million grammar uh, you know, errors in my videos, but it's just trying to communicate that, not trying to be fake um or be perfect. And you know what the interesting thing is, is the amateurs are the ones who do that the like who are the most fake. The very best of professionals are usually the most kind, the most genuine, the most um relatable. And then it's the people under them that are striving to be as successful as them that put on the facades, that are demeaning to others, that will, you know, have that scarcity mentality. Your win is my loss, you know. And and that's something that I try to avoid. Um I'm not perfect at it, but it's something that really turns me off as a person. So I try to avoid that.

Where To Find Josh

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Josh, this has been awesome. I absolutely love uh how much you've shared today on the the podcast. Um if anyone wants to go check you out, check out your YouTube channel or your site. If anyone's l interested in learning piano, um who's listening, where should where should people go and have a look? Uh yeah, you could just go to my main website.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

It's just joshrightpiano.com.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

W-R-I-G-H-T is how you spell right. So Josh, thanks so much. I really, really appreciate your time uh and you coming on today. This has been awesome. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on. As always, thanks so much for listening. Um if you want to go check out some of our other piano based episodes, uh episode 220 with uh Ashley and episode 209 with Nate as well. Um and as always, we'll see you guys next time.