The Art of Selling Online Courses

266 Meet the Violin Teacher Behind 9,000,000 YouTube Views

• John Ainsworth • Season 1 • Episode 266

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Most people who build a 122,000-subscriber YouTube channel and help over 20,000 students learn an instrument have figured out marketing. Beth Blackerby hasn't. And somehow it still worked.

Beth is the founder of Violin Lab, one of the very first structured online violin curricula on the internet, launched before "online course" was even a phrase people used. She started in 2007 because she noticed that adults learn the violin completely differently from children, and almost nobody was teaching to them. So she built something from scratch with no playbook, no subscription model to copy, and no real marketing strategy.

In this conversation with John, they talk through how her tiered membership works, from $35 a month for full curriculum access to $95 a month for weekly personal video feedback. They get into why she built loyalty pricing that dropped members down to $10 a month over time, what made her vibrato video the one that changed everything, and why she hid a marketing trick inside one of her most popular videos that had people emailing her every single day.

John also walks Beth through what an email funnel could look like built on top of everything she's already created, and it's one of those conversations where you can hear someone seeing a whole new layer of possibility for the first time.

Beth also talks about the in-person workshops she's been running since 2012, including one at a music retreat outside London, and why playing together in a room is something no online forum can replace.

She's warm, honest, and genuinely funny. I think you'll enjoy this one.

Check out Beth's work:
🌐 https://violinlab.com/
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/@violinlab

From Side Income To Business

SPEAKER_01

I remember thinking, if I made a thousand dollars a month, wow, you know, that's just a little extra income. That video was the game changer. That's when there was a clear bump up in subscribers. I only find joy if I am in the creative spirit of producing and creating something that I feel needs to be there that may not be there. Really, that's all I've done. There hasn't been a single day where I have felt burnout.

SPEAKER_00

Hello,

Meet Beth And Violin Lab

SPEAKER_00

and welcome to the R coming on MindSource. We are here to win expanding at top performance in the online sports industry. My name's John Antwerp, and today's guest is best like a professional violinist and the founder of Violin Labs. Two years off the grandview. 2007, online sports. Really afraid that people use desktop teaching. Adult violin used notes of adult learn differently. Almost nobody was teaching systems. So in 2008, she built Violin app on the very first websites anywhere to offer structured sequence violin curriculum online. Notice later. Now nearly two decades later, the best paid off. Her YouTube channel has grown to 122,000 subscribers, over 9 million views, over 20,000 adults learning violin, she's built membership business, hundreds of video lessons, live classes, one-on-one feedback, and one thing quite good. Being the best teacher and demonstrator of violent techniques on the internet. And what I love about Beth Stories for this audience is that all of this teaching quality almost alone, which means there's a huge amount of upside still on the table. Once you add the marketing layer on top, we're going to talk about that later. Beth, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here.

Who Joins And Why Adults Start

SPEAKER_00

So talk us through who is it you're helping with your courses? I know it's adults. Is it anything more specific than that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, there are, there's a variety of age ages on the site, but primarily adults who want to, you know, try music for the first time. A lot of adults have wanted to play their whole lives and just now find themselves with time and and you know dispensable income to invest in lessons or the instrument. And some adults did play as chill as a child and now want to return. They want to sort of reclaim some of those skills that they they used to have. So that primarily makes up the body of Violin Lab. And then there are a handful of youngsters whose parents are very keen on helping them get an advantage. So they often have private teachers, but then use Violin Lab as support. And they will still send videos so I can give feedback. And, you know, these kids do very well, but they all have that parental support. But 95% of the members of Violin Lab, I would say, are between the ages of 30 and 80.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. One of the things I've really noticed, uh, I interview a lot of music course creators, and there's a big percentage of people where the majority of their customers are retired.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_00

And do you find like it's a big percentage for you as well? Because you said that 30 to 80, so that's quite a big broad.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I would say retired but or have constructed a life where they can st they still work. They might have part-time work now, or they might still do things in their industry, but also have carved out the time. And I think remote work helps a lot with that. So there are people who, you know, are engineers, but they're working somewhat at home. And then they can take those breaks and and practice the violin. So there are a substantial number of hobbyists who, you know, are not necessarily waiting to retirement. They just they really love music and they really want to play the violin. Um, so I would say it's it's it's widespread. I I I would, you know, if I was gonna make a pie chart, I think there are gonna be lots of slices.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Okay, cool. So

Why Teaching Adults Is Different

SPEAKER_00

why what is it about teaching adults that's so different from teaching kids?

SPEAKER_01

Oh goodness. Well, everything. Um, first of all, uh they are curious and they they crave information that literally will impact their current moment. You know, I mean, kids by nature, I mean, they're curious creatures, but they're not curious for detail or for knowledge. So, you know, it it you can kind of say anything to kids sometimes, and you know, they're gonna learn by osmosis and and imitation. And, you know, those some of them will excel and some won't. But for adults, you know, they require precision with language. You can't just say something and uh not qualify with why and exactly why and what happens. So for me, um creating content, it's it's nice to know that I don't well, maybe I do, but I don't feel like I have to worry about, well, if I don't make this video, you know, two minutes long, I'm gonna lose everyone's attention. Because the people who really are watching know it takes a while. They need the explanation, they need the demonstration in detail so that the light bulb for them can go off and like, oh, finally, this was explained to me in a way that I can actually apply it in my own in my own practice. So that's a that is a big difference. I also think that uh another huge difference in the pedagogy is that the standard violin pedagogy is is has was created to teach young people. And young people move differently, their muscles move differently. And and so there are goals that you would have for a child that aren't relevant to the way adults move. And and it doesn't make sense to me to to train an adult like you would a child and then say, oh, by the way, now that you're you know, you've put two or three years into it, well, it's not you don't really do it like that. You know, here's here's how you really do it. Here's the here's the nuance, here's the refinement. But, you know, a five-year-old can't does they don't have refined movements, but we've learned how to use chopsticks, you know. We can write our names, you know, with a quill if we had to. So I I I then have to say, well, what is it that a professional or soloist really does? What are those muscle movements? And and then how can I break that down into steps that even a beginner, someone who is 60 years old who has never touched the violin, can learn to do. So so that's it's it is very different teaching adults.

SPEAKER_00

Fascinating. I was watching one of your videos earlier about um, I think you were teaching vibrato and you had a slow motion camera showing like exactly how your hand you were just mentioning there about like the the the fine motor neuron control, and you were showing like, okay, this is exactly how the hand's moving and how relaxed it is, and don't put your finger here and do put it there. And I was like, yeah, if you're trying to explain that to a, I don't know, yeah, an eight an eight-year-old, it's like that's too much detail.

SPEAKER_01

They don't want to, you know.

The Slow Motion Vibrato Breakthrough

SPEAKER_01

And and and that video, speaking of that video and uh what what what promotions I have done or any success I have had where I had the intention to do something to catch eyeballs, it was that video. That video was the game changer. And I because at the time we only had, you know, YouTube. There were no other courses, and there weren't that many on YouTube making violin tutorials, just a couple maybe. Um and I thought, you know, well, what is the thing that people have they they want to know or learn to do more than anything else, right? You can put your fingers down, you can go like that, right? You can make sound, but they can't do that. And and violin is not classical violin is not violin without vibrato. So that was the one. So that's the one I wanted to dig into as deeply as I could. And when I launched that, when I put that video on YouTube, that's when there was a clear bump up in subscribers.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting. Have you done a lot more like that since? Like, or there are not other is that just that's the one technique that people really want to do.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's the main technique that I think really helps to to see in slow motion. Because, you know, it's like, well, you're shaking your hand, you know, but but there are some essential parts that need to move. Um, I do have another one that is the with the bow hand. It's a similar one where I'm showing exactly what happens with the fingers when the bow changes direction, right? Because it's it happens quickly. So if you're just watching someone play, you don't really catch it. But when you when you see it in slow motion, then and I and there was a pretty fame, well, a renowned teacher in New York, and I was attending this conference, and he he came up to me, he just said, Oh, by the way, I show all my students that video so they can see this, you know, in slow motion. Oh, nice. I was like, oh, well good.

SPEAKER_00

Have you ever done those videos again? Like the same video, but just like uh I just see people, right? They have a successful video and then they just make the same video multiple times because that's a video that does really well.

SPEAKER_01

I have ne I haven't ever done that. And it never occurred to me to do it. It's like, well, go watch that one. I did it, and it's like it's done. I'm not even sure my camera does slow motion, the one I use now. But well, that's actually yeah, that's actually an interesting thought. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I bet I think it'd be worth like I've got a friend um Jack, he's been on the podcast before. I talk about him sometimes. He's uh teachers banjo. Yeah. And he's like, he really is playing the game like with you. So he only started on YouTube like a year or two ago, uh, maybe two years ago. And he um he's been like playing the game and learning like what kind of videos do well and what have you. And then there's like he got frustrated because that's that's a concept. It's like take a take your best performing video and just do it again and see if you can get it to do well again. And he like tried the same one multiple times and it never did work. But I've seen other people where they've click like there's a a YouTuber who does uh rock climbing that I follow called Magnus Mipbo, and um he did a video that did incredibly well where he dressed up as a really old guy, so he's like in his twenties, right, at the time, and he dressed up, got all the prosthetics and all of the stuff to look like he was in his 60s or 70s, and then went along and claimed it was his first lesson ever, and then but then could climb everything, you know. So and that was really fun, and that got 10 million views or something crazy, right?

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00

But he's made that he's made like five or six of that same video, just like yeah.

SPEAKER_01

He's like, well, that works. I'm gonna do more of that.

SPEAKER_00

And that worked great for him. Like the first one, the top one's got 10 million, the next one's got five, the next one's got three, but they're all millions of views of the same video.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, wow. Well, I no, I haven't ever tried anything like that. Actually, if they just look, if they've just followed me long enough, I mean, I've aged just like, oh, well, she's old now. No prosthetics, no, it's like just old.

Membership Tiers And Video Feedback

SPEAKER_00

What's the the the model that you've got? Talk to me about that. Like you've got the basic at 35 bucks a month and the premium at 65. What's the difference between those two for the member?

SPEAKER_01

For the $65 a premium account, and basically the what it does is it opens up a private channel uh with me where you just upload your video to YouTube send and you embed your uh unlisted video so that only I can see it. And and then I watch your video and I make you a video back and I post it right there on your channel so you you can see, you know, there's the chronology of our interactions, of our lessons. And and then, yeah, no, and and people love it now.

SPEAKER_00

I bet for 65 bucks a month, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and you know, they I think the it's daunting the idea of recording yourself, I think is is a hurdle. I think people tend to shy away from that, but once they have crossed that initial barrier of turning on your webcam, your phone, whatever, and putting yourself out there because it does, it this I it doesn't matter whether it's the phone or anything, you push that button, you feel exposed. And then, you know, you're sending it to someone, and and adults are self-conscious beings. We don't we want to do well. We don't want to sound bad. And you know, and so a lot of people are like, well, I I didn't submit my video because I didn't, it I don't think it really sounds good. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That is not the purpose. You are not performing for me. You are bringing me the warts, you are showing me the struggles because that's what my job is, is to help you with those struggles. And and and that's what I that's what I find joy in is like is dissecting the things that are holding people back from realizing really what is their true potential. And and so, yes, so once once they see that and have that, they really kind of get a little they I've been told, you know, it's like I I can't wait for your response.

SPEAKER_00

You know?

SPEAKER_01

They're just like, when's it gonna come, you know? And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

How how many videos can they do back and forth with you a month? How does that work?

SPEAKER_01

For the $65, it's just once once a month.

SPEAKER_00

Once a month.

SPEAKER_01

And then they can't upgrade. Once you have that, you you could upgrade to a $95 uh premium plus, which is weekly. And there's no there's no rollover. So if you don't make your video that month or you're out of town, or you can't, you know, then uh you don't cram a bunch in the next month.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So, you know, for and I mean, I'm sure you understand that the whole gym membership concept. I mean there are yes, so for someone who is regular about uh submitting their video, it's a bargain. It's a good idea. But there are some people, and I've reached out to them and they sign up for the premium package, and this one person paid a year's worth of lessons and never submitted.

SPEAKER_02

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

So, you know, so it ultimately, as far as revenue, it's I would be making about as much as I I would if I charged a premium price for an in-person lesson, which in Austin could be anywhere from you know $85 to $200 in Austin for an hour in-person lesson.

Switching To Subscriptions And Pricing

SPEAKER_00

What made you move over to the subscription model? Because you mentioned it wasn't the norm when you started back in, was it 2007 you started?

SPEAKER_01

I launched, I taught I started making content in 2007. Once the website was built, once I had everything there, it was it was the beginning of 2009, was when we actually launched. And then I had to abandon that site, rebuild again, relaunched in 2010. And still at that time, right, it subscriptions were not the norm. And I just look, I didn't do any research, any, I just base all my decisions on how I respond to things. And if it's like if someone said, I'm gonna take your credit card and every month I'm gonna make a charge, I would be like, no, thank you. You know, so so it was just, you know, you would buy either a one-month, three month, or a year, and it was to buy the year, and then it it ended, but you would get an email inviting you to renew at a discount. And so people often, often renewed it at that discount. Um, so it it was still like a subscription, but you just had to volitionally, you know, re-enroll. Um, and then of course it became the norm. And and then I so I think this was 2018, maybe we went to subscription. Uh and and it did it did bump up the numbers just having the regular. But I also had a structure where for every year that you're subscribed, your rate drops. Oh, that's nice. So it's it was and it was just $20 a month when I when I first went to subscription. It was $20 a month. The next year it was $15, and the next year it was $10. And then it s capped at $10 a month. And I still have, I would say the majority of my subscribers just pay $10 a month.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And it's and and it's because I mean, imagine like imagine your Netflix did that for you. And you're like, well, I'm just paying eight bucks a month. I mean, I didn't watch anything, there's nothing I really want to watch, but it's just eight, I don't want to give that up. So a lot of people just stay subscribed because for them, you know, ten dollars is not it's not registering as an expense. Once it gets now it's 35, it does. Now I don't have that pricing structure anymore because I relaunched November of 25. I relaunched again with this current site, which is a WordPress built site. So now we got plugins. I had custom builds before, so I don't think my plugin does that. I don't think I I would I would continue that to be honest. I would do that, I would reward consistency and loyalty with with rate drops.

unknown

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. How long do people typically stay with you now then? So you've got a bunch of people obviously who've stayed around for years because if they're down to the $10. Do you do you have like a sense of how long the average person stays?

SPEAKER_02

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01

I at the $35, I I would say that most look, I mean, the reality is violin requires so much time and attention that I think most people are like, I j I don't have time. I thought I did. So they don't really last a year.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But then, but those who do and those who are like, I love this, I am I'm dedicated, I'm in it to win it, they stay. And I would say then the average lifespan for someone who really continues to learn, yeah, is you know, between five years, and they can kind of graduate in about six years. Like they've gone through the content, they have made the progress, but you know, as time goes on, you know, that that that number is smaller and smaller, those who stick it to the end. Um, but that's just the nature of of learning difficult instrument.

SPEAKER_00

And how about how many students have you got now that are still

Retention Realities Scholarships And Post Pandemic Dip

SPEAKER_00

members?

SPEAKER_01

Um it I it's it has waned since the pandemic, I will tell you. Okay. I was holding steady at around 1600.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

And but now it's 1200. I mean, it has it has slipped, but but I think that I'm not alone in that, from what I understand from other content creators. The the combination of increased competition because now everyone is doing it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um and and just post-pandemic behavior, people are like, I don't want to be in front of a computer. I'm gonna go outside. I'm like, you know, in-person experiences. So yeah, it it has slipped. Um, but yeah, so I would say, and now a lot of those are have have bought lifetime memberships. So I do offer lifetime memberships. I do have a some, I mean, not huge, but there is a population that are on scholarship. So anyone in a country, whether it's sanctioned or the dollar is a lot, you know, for some people, some people said $35, it is, I mean, it's like a day's worth of labor. I mean, like it like there are certain countries and and so I always I let people have have memberships for free, but I do expect that they learn. And I just ask them as a show of good faith and to know that I'm making a difference because it is a mission. It really is. I I want anyone to learn violin, and if they can't pay for it, that's okay. But I want to know that they're practicing. So I ask them to send progress videos um to show me that they are engaged, and then I continue the scholarship.

SPEAKER_00

That's sweet. I like that.

YouTube Strategy Without Chasing Trends

SPEAKER_00

So what's your kind of approach when with making videos for YouTube? Like how many, how often do you put a new video up?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's it's I I haven't done anything in a while, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Uh be partly because there are I I just think it is so crowded now. It's just overcrowded. And if I do put up new material for me, it has to be fresh. It has to be novel. It ha I don't want to think that someone is hearing the same information over and over and over. So I do have areas and I do have I have so many burners on a stove with a pot on it that's been simmering for months and years. And it's like, I know it will be good if I ever complete it, you know. But like a whole course on just like our tuning systems or things where you can't otherwise find it. So unless I feel like Like you can't otherwise find it anywhere else for than for me. I sort of am not interested in putting up the content. I'm not gonna do it just I know I should, I know I should, like, or you have to keep your channel alive, you have to feed it. And I just those kinds of things just they they they make me sad. They really do. I I only find joy if I am in a the creative spirit of producing and creating something that I feel needs to be there that may not be there. And that's really that's all I've done. Um yeah, and and and and and if I have tried to do something intentionally, like, well, except okay, there was the vibrato video, and there was one other thing that had seemed to work well, and it was a video that I said uh like eight things I wish someone would have told me when I started violin. And I was like genuinely like, okay, what do I really, really wish I would have known? And about two-thirds of the way through, it's not in the description. So I have to say you have to hear me say it. And I say, if you have gotten this far, you're gonna be able to learn violin because you have a long attention span. If you if you email me in the subject line, I have a long attention span. I will give you a free pass to check out Violin Lab. And I mean, when I first launched it, I every day email, I have a long attention span. I have a long attention span, I have a long attention span. And it it was a great marketing thing that I did, but it had to be inside of, you know, what I felt like was good content. So those are the only two things that have worked. Um yeah. Like I've tried Google Ads or something, and I mean, it just, I might as well have just like written a nice little letter to Google and say, you know, I just love y'all, and I'm just gonna give you some money. And in here, I'm just gonna have a blank check and you just do with it what you want. I mean, that's what it felt like when I tried to do ads or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00

I think if you're gonna do ads, it's in the same way as like if someone's gonna start on YouTube. It's like you gotta you gotta do it properly. You gotta really get in there and you've got to accept I'm gonna mess this up like a whole load of times. And in the ads, you know, in in YouTube, uh um that means you're gonna lose a load of time. Yeah. In ads, it means you're gonna lose a bunch of time and money. Yeah. And it's like along the way, and if you're not willing to go all the way through that and push through and and take the training and make the mistakes and blah, blah, blah, then you kind of not got a chance of getting through the other side. And one of the things I I want to say this actually to everybody listening if you are a YouTuber and or you're doing like Instagram or whatever, organic content, and you're like, oh man, I wish that I was doing ads because then they would just run. Go and talk to people who are actually doing lots of ads. Because that is not how it works. What they do is they have to make new ads constantly because the audience is bored of the ads that they've seen before. So they're like churning out new creatives and new ads. It's incredible, much faster than YouTubers are making new videos. So it's like just the grass is not always greener on the other side. If YouTube is working for you, just like do more YouTube is probably the place to start. And like, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that is, and also I guess if it's what you know, right? You are sharing your expertise.

SPEAKER_00

But years getting good at it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So why not just keep doing that? And that's what I just decided. Well, I'm only doing one thing well. I'm just gonna keep doing that. And and I think I I mean, I still I still mean people are still joining the site, and I've been told, you know, uh, this one woman just told me she said, uh, chat GPT loves you. Oh and uh and then some I've I've heard from a few others, China loves you.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Like, well, wouldn't that be nice if China could join my site? Yeah, that'd be great. They can't do it for people who have VPNs can join. Oh, they can't buy Chinese people can't join it. And they get a lot of views. I think that's what this is. I mean, I've been I've had three people to to to mention this. Um, but yeah.

Email Lists Lead Magnets And Promotions

SPEAKER_00

Do you do anything from your videos to um get people onto an email list? Do you have like a newsletter or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't, I don't have anything like that. I with with the exception of just like that uh a couple of and then I have a few more where I sprinkle in there, you know, uh email me this and you'll get this in return. It they don't work all that well. Also, I mean the main reason I don't do it is because I can't, I would not be able to keep up. Someone would send their email and I'd be like, well, I I don't have a newsletter. I would I haven't done a newsletter, you know, those kinds of things uh would require me to to stay on top of it. And I know I probably won't because I just get very immersed in the things that I, you know, enjoy doing. So yeah. Um and and that probably works really well for a lot of creators is are by you know, having things that go out regularly by email. I I don't I emailing you know big lists of people haven't ever seemed to work well for me either. Um so maybe there's a lot of tricks to that as well.

SPEAKER_00

How many views do you get a month on your on your channel now? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01

I'm not sure. I mean, I I I just all I know is that like the the people that subscribe to my channel, it it stays fairly consistent. Um so when I put out a new video or something, um it usually I would say about like maybe 300 new subscribers a month. Otherwise, it's like two 200 something with me doing nothing. And and and you know, I have compared my channel to other channels of uh people who are doing essentially the exact same thing who work a lot harder at maintaining their YouTube channels, and we seem those this the number of followers seems to stay compatible. Um I haven't seen something where it's so compelling, like wow, this person, they are lapping me with you know an increase in their YouTube followers. What are they doing? I haven't seen that, at least in my exact uh you know, little niche of of my paging.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. The reason I was asking was like if the if the views per month is still high, uh here's the here's the overall thing. In if you're selling when you're selling courses and memberships, like 80% of the potential revenue is in um email promotions. So as in instead of going directly from YouTube to the violin lab, going from YouTube to email list, and then sending useful content to the email list and then sending in a promotion going, you know, here's something we've got, you know, one of your individual courses or your main membership, doing a promotion going, we've got a special going on, sign up now and get it.

SPEAKER_01

So you mean making a YouTube video that so in the description?

SPEAKER_00

Basically doing it in the description of like every of like every video. So it's like if you if let's let's imagine that you've still got I don't know if this is true or not, but like let's imagine that your old vibrato video is still getting tons of views now. If you put in the description of that a link to some free lead magnet about learning vibrato, I don't know anything about violin, right? Right, then then some percentage of people, normally about two percent of people, will then sign up for the free lead magnet, and then lead magnet is just something you're giving away for free, and then a percentage of those people when you email them will then buy. And if you do that, it tends to be that you get a much higher amount of revenue per YouTube view than you do if you just say straight through to the sales.

SPEAKER_01

I see what you're saying. Okay, okay. Well that's good. I I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna I'll make note of that.

SPEAKER_00

But the only way that kind of it it depends on how many uh views you're still getting per month as to what would make sense there. Like if all of your views are on your new videos, then it's like, oh well, it's not worth bothering about the old ones. But if you're still getting tons of views of the old videos, then it's worth putting that in the description of the old ones.

SPEAKER_01

Well, maybe it would be, maybe it would be worth uh because I certainly have content that would complement all of the videos that I put up.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So let's say I have a there's a practicing one. Well, I have a um I've created this nice little list of practice techniques. So maybe that's that magnet. Um for the vibrato, I do have um other specialized vibrato videos that maybe I could send a link to that they wouldn't normally be able to find or something. Is that what is that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and you're gonna want that to be automated so they're not having to like you're not having to do it manually every time they they you know, you set up like a form or something, so they just fill it in and they go on the list, you know, and you could get that from Convert K or MailChimp for any of them will will allow you to make those kind of forms.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, we had uh um somebody we were working with who she had like tons of, she had very uh lots and lots of subscribers, like millions subscribers on a YouTube channel, a million people on Facebook, whatever, but was never linking to lead magnets. And she was getting something like 400 opt-ins a month. And then we added it in everywhere, not just new content, but all of the previous content. And she went up to like I don't know, it was like 20,000 opt-ins a month or something like that. And it's just like just because she didn't have it anywhere, it was hard to find how to get onto her list. Oh, and it went to now it depends obviously on how many views you have as to how many opt-ins you get. Like that's this it's just a percentage kind of game between the two of them.

SPEAKER_01

Well, so here I have a question then. So let's say that you have in your description, you have, you know, I guess a link to where you put in your email. So then automatically you get this thing. Then how from that thing, how does it lead to, say, a violin lab membership?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the basic idea there is, and and this is you're saying about not putting out content unless you're feeling inspired. So this is why I don't know if this is right for you or not. But the the here's the here's the system when it's all fully done, right? Okay, is you have uh a welcome sequence that is automated. So that goes out over about two weeks, maybe like five or six emails over two weeks, and that's automated. And everything after that is just sent out manually to the whole the whole list. And that is like probably a weekly piece of content of some kind. Could be a newsletter, but it could be a link to your most recent YouTube video, it could be um uh um some you know useful tip that you're sending out, whatever it is, something useful. And then once a month, you do a promotion of something. Now you can only do a promotion of your membership probably like every let's say three every three months, because you with this you might be doing a discount. So instead of it being $35 a month, if you sign up now, it's gonna be you know 30% off or get the first three months for half price or something. You know, you come up with some special offer and you have um a series of emails that go out talking all about how amazing the membership is and what's included in it and what's included in the special offer and why, you know, what kind of results people are getting when they use it, and answering people's common questions and creating urgency, and you do like a big week of of pushing that. But you can only do the if you're doing a membership, you can only promote with a discount every few months because otherwise people will be like, oh, it'll just be under scan again next month. I might as well wait.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

In between, I know that you have certain things you you have sold at least as courses, because I was following some of the links through from your your YouTube videos. These might be old and out of date, I don't know, but like some like in any individual courses that you've got that are like let's say $99 on their own or whatever, you can sell those in the other months. So that's the that's the full kind of system.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I do have the vibrato course. I have a whole course on it on uh on the SoundSlice platform.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, okay. Yeah, so that kind of thing. That's exactly what you then promote in the other ones. Um but yeah, so the reason I was asking about your monthly views is because much more than subscribers, that's what is going to allow you to figure out, okay, well, if I have this many views, I can get this many email subscribers, I can then have an email list of this size, I can then make this much money and kind of figure out what's, you know, what's the return, how how worth it is it for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, that's great. I I I would have never thought of that. I mean, I thought because I I was told, oh, you have to blog, um, because then that's when you can like get these opt-in emails, you know, or something. Um, but I don't think anyone reads blogs anymore, right? I mean, doesn't she?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I guess some do, right? But like I don't know. I think you I wouldn't worry about if you've got a YouTube channel with 120,000 subscribers, I don't think you should be thinking about blogging. I think you should be thinking about YouTube videos. It's like that's you've already got this this the traffic channel figured out, you know. Um yeah. It's I I'm really curious as to how how many views your old your old videos still like how I'll I'll look at that.

SPEAKER_01

I will look at that and to see yeah, which ones still drive the engagement because likely the things that people really wanted to know back in you know 2010, they still want to know now.

SPEAKER_00

Um violins haven't been upgraded.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, no, and and the way to play them, there's no one has figured out anything different.

Revenue Ambition Gratitude And No Burnout

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I think so. Music channels are are really a great um revenue-wise per subscriber, revenue-wise per viewer, they tend to be really good. Like there's lots of potential there because people who want to learn music that they know that they need to go take a course to learn it in more detail. They know they need feedback and lessons and what have you. So it tends to be a higher kind of conversion rate um to people spending m being willing to spend money. That's been my experience. Um like we're working with someone who are they up to now? I think like 30,000 subscribers, something like that, in the piano space, and they're got them up to like making $30,000 a month, something in that kind of ballpark. Um I think Jack's at 20, no, 10,000 subscribers, and he's doing like 10,000-ish a month. So it's kind of like it depends, you know, subscribers and views aren't the same, aren't the same thing, I know, but like that's the kind of numbers you tend to be able to hit. And then we've got like uh Scott who'd been on here before. Scott teaches uh um runs Scott's bass lessons, and he I think he's doing five million a year with like half a million, half a million subscribers. So it's like there's money in there's money in teaching music, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. No, yeah, no, there is. And and when I, you know, started, I mean, I had no idea. And I just remember thinking, you know, if I made a thousand dollars a month, wow, you know, that's just a little extra income. We had two children, and and you know, if I could just get like 400 people, you know, like that was just like I'm just gonna dream big. And then, you know, and quickly that happened, and then you're like, and I'm sure every single person who has, you know, who creates content who has uh a subscription-based membership says, if I could just get to 10,000 a month, and then you get to 10,000 a month, and you're like, oh, if I could just get to 15,000 a month, like it really never ends, you know? So, you know, I mean, fortunately, you know, it did well. I could pay for my children's college educations, you know, I could build the studio. And and I just decided that I've been so fortunate and so lucky, you know, I'm I'm just I'm not gonna just have that anxiety about, you know, no, my numbers are slipping. Oh no, you know, I'm just like, you know, I've done plenty well. This is good, you know, and I and I do love it. Fortunately, I there hasn't been a single day where I have felt burnout. Now, I will tell you that I I I don't like emailing. Um, I don't like sitting there, and that there are certain tasks, you know, where like video editing, things like that, that would be great to, you know, have someone else do. But just as far as the teaching itself, it's yeah, not a day goes. Never. I I I will do this until like I actually can't, unless they're they're like, I don't know what she's saying anymore.

In Person Workshops That Build Community

SPEAKER_01

But we we have, you know, we have in-person uh workshops. So I just got back. So one of the reasons I'm so excited is because we just got back. We people flew in, someone flew in from Slovenia, from Canada, you know, and we met in Galveston. We rented this mansion that's what is now a big wedding venue. They had, you know, suites, and so people stayed there, ate there, we did chamber music, we played. It was so amazing, you know, and and the adults that come in there, some are still I would consider beginners, others have been playing for years and years. Didn't matter. I mean, just the joy for them to be in person and come together, you know, was was so fun. So that is one of the the things about the community that's really enjoyable that you don't really see when you just see an online forum. Well, people don't know that there are in-person experiences that they can participate in. And I think hopefully, and uh now that the pandemic knock on wood is way behind us, to to do more of these also in-person experiences, um, workshops.

SPEAKER_00

That's cool. How much uh how's that tend to work? How much do you charge for that? Are you like booking the are they paying for the rooms kind of through you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so they're so I booked the the venues, it was all inclusive. So it comes to about, you know, any I like 1800 to about 2000 for all of it. So, you know, you have classes, your teacher covers all the teaching expenses, the facilities, rooms, board, everything. And great deal. Yeah, yeah. So it's yeah, it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. How long have you done that for?

SPEAKER_01

The first one was in 2012. Okay. And that first time I did it, I didn't charge anything because I was so scared. I I'd never done anything like that. I I don't I haven't even hosted a dinner party.

SPEAKER_02

Like I haven't even had anything.

SPEAKER_01

So I thought, well, what if people came and they didn't feel like they got their money's worth? So I just thought, like, if you come here and you pay for your trip and you find your housing or whatever, I will, I will, I have something for you to do. So I did kind of go overboard. And by the end of it, I mean, they they had to show up at like 8 30 and they didn't go back to their Airbnbs until it was like 9 p.m. And and I had so many classes and master classes, and and I asked this one woman, I was like, so what was your favorite thing? And she's like, she's like, I don't know. She said there was so much I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_02

It's like, okay.

SPEAKER_01

So maybe it doesn't. I don't have to, you know, go that overboard. So I kind of distilled it into the things that people seem to value the most.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That is, you know, a personal lesson, just in-person lesson, a masterclass experience where you are playing and other people are listening. And so your instruction there is for everyone. Playing together, you know, chamber music or orchestra. Um, and then the little classes, the little informational things that you throw in need to be good, but that's not what sticks. It really is it it really is the things where they they really are doing, doing, doing together, not just listening, but doing together.

SPEAKER_00

How often do you do them?

SPEAKER_01

In the every summer.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, okay. Once a year.

SPEAKER_01

Excluding uh pandemic. Now we the we went to we were in England for one at this place called Benslow. It's outside London. It's outside of London, and it's it's just for musical gatherings. It's an it's an amazing facility. They have little dormitory style living, they feed you, and they have these incredibly beautiful rehearsal rooms. So yeah, it's it's Benslow, I think.

SPEAKER_00

If you just Google Oh, in Hitchen, I'm looking, yeah, Benslow Music, some uh Benslow Music in Hitchen. Yeah, I'm looking up. So it's kind of like north of London a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I used to live, I I would drive past it. I there was uh some place I'd go shop that way. Okay, cool. I've never been to to Hitchen and certainly never been to Benslow Music, but that's cool. It looks beautiful as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's really it's really wonderful. So yeah, so I I I I would love to know m more venues like that. It's it that's the hard that's the hard part.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Finding the venue.

SPEAKER_00

Beth, I love this. I love what you're doing. I think this is absolutely awesome. Um thank you so much for coming on stand sharing your your experience. It's been absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, great.

Where To Find Beth And Free Trial

SPEAKER_00

Um, if people want to go check you out, if they want to look at your YouTube channel or they want to go look at your website, where should they go?

SPEAKER_01

Uh just well, violinlab.com, and then my email is there, violinlab at gmail.com. And if anyone is listening to this and you would like to just have a free two week trial period, let me know and I'll get you in.

SPEAKER_00

Get some more people learning violin. I like it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Beth, thanks again so much, and thanks as always for listening. We'll see you guys next time.

SPEAKER_01

All right.