The Art of Selling Online Courses

278 I Say No to Sponsors Almost Every Day. Here's Why

• John Ainsworth • Season 1 • Episode 278

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Elsa runs Peace of French, a YouTube channel with hundreds of thousands of subscribers, and she built the whole thing again in Hebrew. Every day, companies email her offering money to promote their language apps. She says no almost every time.

Dominik sat down with Elsa to find out why, and what he got was a really clear-eyed conversation about what it actually means to run a course business rather than an influencer operation. Elsa started teaching French to her partner, found YouTube, and built from there, filming on a bad phone with no microphone until she hit 100,000 subscribers.

What I found most interesting was her thinking on trust in the age of AI. She isn't panicking. She thinks the creators who've built real relationships with their audiences have something AI can't replicate, and she's been quietly building that kind of connection by sharing her everyday life alongside her lessons.

She also talked through her quiz funnel, why she's cautious about over-discounting, how she deliberately prunes her email list, and what happened when she closed her membership and repackaged it as a one-time product. That last part is worth listening to if you have an offer that's plateaued.

She's honest about what's hard too, including the real cost of running two businesses at once and waiting two full years before starting her email list.

Check out Elsa's work:
🌐 https://www.pieceoffrench.com/
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/@UCVzyfpNuFF4ENY8zNTIW7ug

Focus Makes The Business Grow

SPEAKER_02

When you divide your focus, you don't really grow anything. If you wanna create a real business out of this, you have to treat it as a real business and not like an influencer business. They trust us and think we're like a friend. I think that's a big advantage of maybe in the age of AI. AI will be able to generate content and you will not really know who's real. When you watch a video, you will not really be able to know if it's a real person or not. I think the people you trust and you know they're real, I think that will be an advantage.

SPEAKER_00

Hello and welcome to the Art of Selling Online Courses. We are here to share winning strategies and secret acts from top performers in the online course industry. My name is Dominic and today's guest is Elsa. Every single day, an email lands in Elsa's inbox offering her money from sponsorships, brand deals, language apps, waving checks, asking her to tell her audience about them. She says no almost every time. Most creators would call that leaving money on the table, but she calls it protecting the business. She built a French teaching channel to hundreds of thousands of subscribers, an email list of more than 10,000 followers, and then went and did the whole thing a second time in Hebrew. So one method to businesses. With one rule she refused to break, every single thing she publishes has to make her own business stronger. So today we are going to find out whether that's a principle or a strategy or whether in the age of AI, when anyone can generate a French quest in three seconds, the thing she's really been selling was never French at all. We are going to talk about why she turns down sponsorship money almost every day and the exact time she won't grow, how she built an audience on one platform, long form only, and why she still refuses to touch short form, how she built the same business twice in two different languages, and the belief underneath of it all that the age of AI, the most valuable thing you own, isn't content, but it's trust. Elsa, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, hello, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00

No worries, of course.

Where Sponsorships Cross The Line

SPEAKER_00

Elsa, I want to start somewhere slightly unusual. Most of the time on this show we open with the origin story and we will get there. But there's a decision you make almost every single day that tells me more about how you run this business than any origin story could. So you get so many emails from companies wanting to pay you to promote them, and you say no to almost all of them. And that's the part I want to understand. So what's the line a sponsor can't cross with you?

SPEAKER_02

So since I'm, you know, myself selling like online French courses or Hebrew courses, I find it a bit difficult to promote other businesses who do the same thing because I feel like if you're you know thinking of like a traditional business, they wouldn't go around and and talk about uh competition and say, hey, here's the best, the best method on the market or the best product on the market, and it's not me. So I feel like this is kind of hard to do. Um of course in the past I have uh partnered uh with um, you know, language apps when I didn't have my own products, but I feel like since I developed my own courses and I want to focus on that, um I've been yeah, finding myself like refusing those partnerships. I'm always open to partnerships that are, you know, around the language space, but not like specific language solutions. Like, for example, I can give you like um an example, like I partnered with uh Notion. You know, it's not you know, this I don't have a problem because it's a product I use, and I can say, okay, here's I how I use Notion to learn languages or like find an angle, or so this could be other things that revolve around that that universe of um that world of languages, but yeah, I feel like if if you if you want to create a real business out of this, you have to treat it as a real business and not like an influencer business. That's kind of the the difference I feel. Um yeah. Of course there are influencers with courses as well, but I feel like I'm not an influencer, you know. I'm I I'm like um French teacher, educator, but not an influencer. I would not not that I have anything against the influencer, but that's not how I would define myself.

SPEAKER_00

Of course, that's

A YouTube First Way To Teach

SPEAKER_00

perfect. So before any of this was a business, you were just teaching French, right? So take me back to the beginning. When did you first realize the way you were teaching was actually different?

SPEAKER_02

So it it's interesting because I I'm not a tr I'm like I'm not a French teacher. I don't have like a French teaching degree. I I actually have a business degree. Um and um my partner, he's not a French speaker, so I started spe um teaching French to him. And that's how um I, you know, started with this thing. And then by teaching him French and looking for new like techniques and ways to teach, um I found some YouTube channels um teaching French like in a different way, like it was a different approach, more like with natural content and not with like traditional grammar lessons and and things like that. And then I realized that when I was learning Hebrew because I learned Hebrew, um I used YouTube a lot to learn Hebrew, like and I found that YouTube was actually a great way to learn languages because you know, usually the TV shows and movies are way too different, way too difficult, and like the the um students uh content is too easy and boring, and so YouTube really is like um a great um like content to learn languages. I I say this all the time, like it's like on my channel, I'm like YouTube is the best place to learn languages, and I actually right now I'm learning Portuguese because I live in Portugal, and that's my main way of learning, like just watching content on YouTube. Um and so I said, okay, let me create create some content with the YouTube style, you know, like vlogs and more like lifestyle, but with like slow French so that people can understand from the context, and yeah, so that's how it started.

Why Free Content Still Sells

SPEAKER_00

That makes perfect sense. So um what made you believe people would pay for that and not just watch it for free later on when you started?

SPEAKER_02

Um it's a good question because I feel like when people are are used to getting um stuff for free for from you, it's it's sometimes difficult to get them to actually become paid uh customers. Um I feel like it's for you know basically for all the online courses, it's like you give them like the structure and you give them the transformation, at least that's what you're trying to do. Because they can find everything online for free. Uh all the information is out there, but you're like here is like a short a shortcut. You know, here's like all the information organized in um in a way that will make you make progress faster. That's what you're trying to to sell, basically. Like it's like the the the speed and the transfer of the transformation.

One Platform And Evergreen Growth

SPEAKER_00

And um let's talk about how people actually find you because um I already know your answer is going to make some listeners uncomfortable because everyone in the space is being told to be everywhere all the time. But you've put mostly everything into one platform. So why only YouTube? Why what would you say?

SPEAKER_02

Um so as I said, I'm a huge YouTube fan, first of all. So I guess that was like the first reason why I started with YouTube, and I remain a big YouTube fan and YouTube like consumer of content. I think that's also i important, is like to be on a platform where you actually consume the content and understands the codes and how it works, because I'm not on TikTok, I don't have the app on my phone, I'm not on Instagram, I don't have the app on my phone, I'm not a consumer, you know? So I I don't really know what's happening there. I don't know what are the trends, what are the the formats and YouTube? It's like that's what I love. And so for me as well, um that's easier to produce because I know what's the format and what's the codes, what are the codes. So I think that's the first thing is like what do you consume? What do you like consuming where do you feel at ease? And I prefer to focus on my energy in growing one platform than trying to, you know, grow several badly, like try to do at least that's what I would recommend for something for someone starting out is like focus on one platform, grow it, and then after once you've you know mastered it, you can uh start uh another platform. Like I I had an Instagram account in the past, I haven't published there in four years, I think. So I tried a bit and then I saw it's just not natural. I don't like it. I don't like doing stories, I don't like it's not my my thing. So I think it's best to focus on what you like and what you do best.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. And what you just said, like it uh YouTube feels natural to you. So it's better to put all of your effort into one content machine that you know that you like, that you you are putting effort to, and it just produces results rather than just focusing on everything else all at once, and it's bringing you actually less results because you're not giving 100% of yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I wanted to add also about YouTube, and what I love about it is that it's evergreen, is that it means that like I can create a video and then it will continue working for me for years. Like I have videos that I made five years ago, and people are still watching them and and finding them. And and so it's you're building an ecosystem that works for you. Um for and that's what I'm looking for, you know, like you said earlier, I think about every piece of content like working for me. It's like I'm I'm doing the work now, but it's it's gonna last for a long time. And I feel like with short form content, it's not really the case. It's more like immediate and it's gonna last for one day, and then like you have to produce new content every day. With YouTube, it's like I publish ever once every two weeks. Like that's my schedule at the moment. At the beginning it's it was once a week, but um you see I don't publish so much, but I feel like it's it's working for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, exactly that.

Why She Avoids Short Form

SPEAKER_00

Um while we are still at the sh short form, so um you must get this pushback constantly because short form is what usually people say is where the reach is right now. A 30-second clip can put you in front of millions of people who never heard of you. And you're basically saying no to that. So, what are you protecting by not doing the short form? Is it the results that you're already seeing with the long form? Or what would you say here?

SPEAKER_02

I would say first of all, I'm protecting my mental health, honestly, because I I just, you know, I don't think it's good for humanity to be consuming all those short form videos. So so I don't I don't consume them because I think they're bad. And so I don't want to create them as well. I'm not saying I will never create some short form, you know. I I also think you have to, I don't know, if like I do see that YouTube is pushing short form a lot. Like, for example, if you go in the search and you just write a uh you know, you write a search and then you will see only shorts and you have to go down to find the the long form content. So I'm not saying like I will never do it. I know it has a great potential to to reach new audiences, but at the moment I'm yeah, I I don't I just yeah, I'm I'm not a fan of the format. And um and I also believe that you can't really at least for my niche, for like the way I like to teach French, I don't know if you can really teach anything in like 30 seconds. Um but yeah, it could be a way to like get people to know your channel and then they come on the long form. Maybe, yeah. I'm not saying I will never do it. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00

Makes sense. Makes sense.

Quiz Funnels And Email List Lessons

SPEAKER_00

So um what about when someone finds a five-year-old video today? So what happens next? Do you have some sort of lead magnet there that you push people to your email list, or what happens after that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So it's it's um it's interesting because yeah, the old videos, you know, back in the days I didn't have an email list. Um and um so I added maybe a pin comment on like the most performing videos from a few years ago saying here's my free ebook, or like I will update the YouTube video description. Um but now that I'm more aware of how it works, you know, like all the funnels and um how to get uh people to come into your your website and your email list. Like back in the days, I I was I you know I didn't really know, and that's one of the mistakes I made. I think it's like creating waiting a long time before creating an email list because I was too focused on on growing my YouTube.

SPEAKER_00

How many um subscribers do you get per month this way?

SPEAKER_02

On YouTube or on on email?

SPEAKER_00

On YouTube.

SPEAKER_02

So on YouTube, that's um actually interesting because I feel like YouTube is is a bit like going in waves. You know, sometimes you are very flat and you feel like okay, that's it. I'm never gonna grow again. And then, you know, like a few weeks ago I published a video that really worked that worked really well, and now I have like uh I almost had this month like 10,000 new subscribers. Wow. Um and you know, and before I had like two, three thousand new subscribers. So you never know. And also this video I had no idea it would perform. Like really, it's like a cooking video in French. Had no clue. Um, didn't work that well. Didn't think it would do so well. So you can really never really know it's gonna work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's why staying consistent with those lead magnets is important. Uh I like what you mentioned that you've put pin comments to your older videos as well. That's what we usually recommend our clients to do. So you take uh the most popular YouTube videos that you have on your channel, even if they're like 10 years ago. For a start, you can go with the first 10 if you have a lot of them. So then you take the first 10 and then you add another 10 and another 10. Uh, but always put them in the pinned comment and the description. But also staying consistent with the new videos. Because even though the older videos are bringing the most views, the most amount of people that are coming to your email list, you never know if one of the new videos will actually blow up, as in your case, and will bring you even more. So just staying consistent when posting uh the lead magnets, especially in the pinned comments, because we all love to watch the comments when we are on YouTube. Uh that brings especially uh like so many people on their email list.

SPEAKER_02

So uh Yeah, now now I I really try to mention like my main lead magnet at the moment is uh at the moment is a quiz to evaluate your French level. And um so I really try to mention it in every video and to leave it in the description, pinned comments, and do you also have some sort of offer?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so after you evaluate their level of French using the quiz, do you have some offer after that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um, so I'm yeah, I I had the quiz um segments the audience in six stages of learning. It's not the traditional like A1 and B2 uh levels, something that's a bit more aligned with my uh my methodology. Then I I recommend um a course that would fit their level. Um and it they enter um a funnel, like an automated email sequence. Uh at the moment I don't have like um an offer, like um, I don't give any discounts at the moment on like through those funnels. That's something I've done in the past. I didn't really see the results I was hoping for. So I'm always, you know, like reevaluating. Um I also added uh new courses, so I'm yeah, for for now, I don't have like a specific offer. It's more like, you know, here's our the courses, so they know it exists, and then you know what I find is that people don't necessarily buy during that um sequence, but later, you know, they will they know the course exists, and then I don't know, maybe if there's an offer later they will purchase, or like two months later without an offer as well. So I don't I don't wanna I don't know, it's it's sorry, but it's something like I don't know if I wanna off you know do offers too much because then people get used to it. So it's something I've been you know thinking about. Like, is it good to always make offers?

SPEAKER_00

Makes sense, makes sense. And it's also important because um a lot of people think that you should only do discounts because people buy only during discounts, but it's not true. Because uh the important part here is to make people problem aware. So aware of the problems in their, for example, French, aware of the situation that they're stuck in today. Yeah. So uh you want them to feel that problem. You want to feel the issues they're having in their everyday lives. So you want them to want the solution from you, which is the course, right? Which is yeah, any sort of product that you have. So um they don't have to wait for a discount because you made them problem where, okay, so my uh my French level is this. And if I don't buy something from you, I'm gonna stay stuck at this place, and I may not get a better job, which I really want, if I don't buy this course and start working on my French. So, no, I'm not gonna wait for some discount during Black Friday if it's ever gonna happen or any other month. So people are gonna buy something at a full price as well, like the Evergreen sales. You the important thing is to just add a message, so make them problem aware. Is it uh during the regular emails or during uh quiz funnels and stuff, just to make them okay, this is your level and this is what you could do uh if you were to buy this course. And you make them visualize their future uh after they purchase their course, and they feel like, okay, these are all the benefits I can get if I purchase this course today, even if it's not on a discount, yeah. I'm gonna grab it right now because I want it right now. I want my life to change from today. And I'm gonna do whatever is necessary. I'm not gonna wait for some 20% discount. So that's also perfectly fine. So you don't have to always offer discounts. Um, you just want to make the messaging feel in a way that they want to buy something from you now, no matter the price, no matter anything else. And that also works very well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to insist like in the emails, like why now is the best time, basically. Like talking about the problem and like how the method can help and explaining, okay, now is you know, now's the best time to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Teaching Like A Friend Builds Trust

SPEAKER_00

Uh something interesting your audience says about you. They don't say that you're a great teacher, which you are, of course, but they say it feels like spending time with a friend. So uh when did you first notice be uh people related to you that way?

SPEAKER_02

Uh I mean I don't know about a specific time, but I feel like that's also what I'm going for for with my content, you know, because I'm not doing the traditional grammar or vocabulary videos. It's more like um lifestyle videos. So I will share glimpses of my everyday life. I will show, you know, what I eat in a day, or like I'm showing my husband and our dog that you can see over there, and like our house and our travels. So they get a glimpse of uh of our lives. We I don't overshare, but uh, you know, they met my sister, they met my mom a bit here and there. So I feel like that's really um what um what led people to feel that way and and it's it's cool because sometimes we have people uh telling us that, hey, thanks to you, I I don't know, I don't go on my phone when I wake up the first thing in the morning because we talk a lot also about like, you know, tips on like how to have a more digital Healthy life or stuff like that. And so you see, like you can impact people in a broader way than just languages. And I think that's pretty cool to see that as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And it's an amazing way of differentiation between the other teachers, right? So you have a totally different way of teaching. So you're not just teaching a language, but you're also teaching some life skills and some life advice and stuff, which people can relate to. And a bonus here is also learning a language. So it's totally different than just having a person on a screen telling, okay, repeat after me. And then you repeat the words and stuff. So this way it feels like they're talking to a French friend, for example, which we all know it's the best way to actually learn a language. When you have a person that you can talk to, when you have a person who's gonna be there and who's just like uh a regular person that makes it easy for you, easier for you to talk about something. So yeah, that's that's an amazing thing.

AI Makes Real Humans More Valuable

SPEAKER_00

That brings me to something you believe that cuts against the panic everyone feels right now. So most course creators are terrified of AI, and you seem to think it's good news for you. So why does AI make your business stronger and not weaker?

SPEAKER_02

Um so I think as I said, like the fact that they they identify with us and they think we're, you know, tr they trust us and think we're like a friend, I think that's uh a big advantage maybe in the age of AI where people will, you know, you can AI will be able to generate content and and you will not really know who's real or and not like when you watch a video, you will not really be able to know if it's a real person or not. So having you the people you trust and you know they're real, and uh I think that that will be like uh an advantage. I also think, you know, I all um uh uh often people tell me, you know, how what do you think it's gonna be like to learn languages in the future? You will not need to learn a language because, you know, you will be able to translate instantly. You will probably have a chip in your brain that's instantly translating. So I I think, you know, today as well, it's not like you really need it. Like most people who learn French, it's not because they move to a French country and they need to speak French. They they l are learning French because it's a hobby and they like it and they know it's good for their brain to learn a new language, or they have like a connection with the country and the culture. So of course there are a few group of you know, a small group of people who are learning French because they live in France and they need it for work and life, but most people it's not the case. So so yeah, I don't I don't think AI will replace that I don't know, that whole that whole market. But uh yeah, I I do use AI in my work and I'm thinking of how to use AI also in my courses um in the future because I think you you know it's here and you have to to make the best of it, but with staying with that like trust uh and um personal level of um interaction and yeah.

Building The System Again In Hebrew

SPEAKER_00

Um and then you see you did something that to me is the real proof that what you have built here is a system and it's not just charisma that you have. So you build the whole thing again in Hebrew. So uh what did building piece of Hebrew teach you about that piece of French couldn't?

SPEAKER_02

It it's very interesting because um piece of Hebrew is smaller, we have uh 50,000 subscribers. Um but uh we saw that um it's actually it's not exactly the same business. So at the first at the beginning it was we had the same model. Um so in for piece of Hebrew we have a membership. For Piece of French, I for I used to have a membership, and then interestingly um the membership in Hebrew worked much better, even with a smaller audience. So I think that's also interesting to notice is that having a smaller audience doesn't mean that uh you will, you know, have less clients and less customers. Um because people who learn Hebrew actually they're not the people who learn French. People who learn Hebrew, they usually have a good reason for learning it. It's not just people who want to learn a language um because you know they think French is nice and it look it sounds nice. People who learn Hebrew, they have a connection with the language, they have family who speaks Hebrew. So I feel it's a it's um an audience that's more maybe more willing to pay for courses and yeah. So I think that's di that's interesting to notice this, like that even if it's the same concept, you have two different audiences, and now we have two different business models as well for the two.

Cleaning The List To Cut Costs

SPEAKER_00

Nice, nice, that's perfect. And um you also mentioned that you're actively deleting people from your email list on purpose, which I love. And I also want to make sure the listener also understands why. So why do you remove subscribers instead of hoarding them?

SPEAKER_02

Um I mean, first of all, I um email an email list has a cost, you know, it and it depends on the number of subscribers you have on your list.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Uh so I don't I'd rather have like a small group of subscribers who open my email and who are interested in w in reading them than a lot of people that don't open my emails. So I'm that's I guess that's the main reason that I'm you know going, you know, deleting uh people who don't open the emails I don't know in the night in the past 90 days, like once in a while, so that I have like qualified um and a quality email list. That's the main reason.

SPEAKER_00

Do you have a strategy there? Do you also try to uh re-engage those people first, or do you just go on and uh I should.

SPEAKER_02

I should honestly I uh I have to look into that. I have to do it now because I'm uh it's the the time where I need to do it, so I will look into it now. What's the best way to do this? But yeah, I guess I should like re reinvest. And also, you know, with the with lead magnets, lead magnets like quiz, you all you get a lot of people uh who do the quiz and are not really interested in what you have to say. So what I did for my quiz is that not everyone enters the email list. They have to to opt in and they have to um like they will see their results without being part of the email list. Oftentimes, you know, they're like you have to join the email list to see the result of the quiz. That's what I did at the beginning, but then I noticed I had a lot of people coming in, but they were not really interested in my product. So what I do now is like if you want to have an extra bonus with a full roadmap of like how to learn French, then you can opt in and get inside the email list, but you don't have to do this to see the results. And I feel like this way I have more um qualified leads that get into my email list.

SPEAKER_00

It's also actually interested in your content.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, makes sense. Like they know what they're signing up for, then not just they're not just like, okay, so I get the results and then I don't open anything.

SPEAKER_00

Makes sense. Yeah. For the for the re-engagement, what we usually do is um so you build a segment around people that are inactive for 60 plus days, for example. Um, and we set up like a sequence of four to five emails where you try to re-engage them, right? So you send them an email, usually you have something for free inside, either an e-book, PDF, uh a mini course, or whatever you'd like. And you let them know in the subject line, especially when you mention something for free, they're getting, or here's a gift from us to you, um, just to get them to open the email and see if they're still active or you they're just in like somewhere else. Um so um you try to re-engage them over the course of the uh four to five emails where you offer something for free and mentioning, hey, like um here's a gift from me. Um I just want to know if you're still here. Uh if yes, like do you have some questions? Or are you willing to learn something so you can also engage with them? Uh but if not, if you're uninterested uh in this emails, you can unsubscribe here. I will not be mad. You can still rejoin whenever you'd like. Um so basically you're giving them the options, but you're also trying to figure out who has gone called onto your on your email list and is not opening any of the emails. So you still get uh uh some people opening the emails, getting back to you and stuff, and those people can go to the nurture sequence then afterwards. So the nurture sequence then um does that once they're re-engaged, so they didn't open any of the emails for 60 plus days or 90 days, uh, they most probably forgot about you, what you're doing, and stuff. So you can send a series of emails, three to five emails, for example, where you reintroduce yourself. Like, hey, thank you for downloading my gift. I hope you like it. By the way, my name is Elsa. If you forgot, I'm doing this and that. Um, if you want, you can watch my YouTube video, then you give them a YouTube video that they learn something from you. So you try to re-engage with them. So it's not like um, yeah, you just got this free gift, now you are warm again because they're not, but you try to again nurture them in a way that they know what you're doing. Uh they may got uh re-interested in what you have to offer, or maybe they are currently at a place where um they would now like to learn something from you. Maybe 60 days ago or 90 days ago, they weren't at the place, and now you are here, and like, yeah, maybe this is a sign for me to start learning French. So um it's always a good idea to try to re-engage people first. Um, those that still don't open any of the emails, of course, you're going to delete them, but those people that open the emails, you try to nurture them back and see if you can uh again connect with them uh on some other level as well. So um yeah, we can talk about that more afterwards.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I think that um now.

Upsells And The Cost Of Two Brands

SPEAKER_00

So um when someone finishes one of your courses, what's the next thing you offer them? Do you also offer some sort of upsells or the bombs? How do you run a little bit?

SPEAKER_02

I'm trying, I'm trying to. Uh so for my I have a new course which is more like a beginner course, so I'm trying to upsell them to the next uh course. Here I am offering a small, a small discount, like a reward, a finisher reward. It's gonna be, I mean, for now, I the way I structured it, it's only for people who have finished the course. It's like you finish the course, here's your finisher reward. It's gonna be like a five-day uh discount count, a discount code, um, which is I'm you know, like with um a personal deadline based on when they finished the the course. Um and yet for my other courses, I'm I'm trying to um upsell them to the next course based on that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

Um you built two businesses with your partner, right? Teaching two languages while clearly trying to keep a real life, and that's a lot. Yeah. What has building this cost you is what would you say?

SPEAKER_02

Um I would say it's not easy to actually do two businesses at a time. It's some is something I struggle with and I'm still struggling with. It's like I feel like um each time I have to be inside one business, and then the other will kind of uh be left on the side, and I can't really develop the business. Um, so it's a bit like where do I put my energy? Um and it's yeah, it's something I'm always uh struggling with. So now I I'm started this recently. I'm trying to say, okay, let me do three, like half of the week on one business, half of the week on another business. I'm trying to do like four days um dedicated to one business because I find like jumping between like subjects and businesses is not really good. But I don't know if that works. Honestly, I've started this like uh a few weeks ago and I I'm not sure yet it's it's working. Um but um yeah I I feel like we we do um prioritize a lot of our personal life and personal time and I I didn't like sacrifice my personal life for for developing the the businesses. Um but yeah I struggle with like having two businesses and I feel like sometimes maybe I'm like should I just focus on one business and stop the other? Because I feel like when you it's a bit like with the platforms that we talked earlier, is like when you divide your focus, you don't really grow anything. So sometimes I'm like maybe I should just go all in on one of them and and that would be better. I would yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

That makes

What She Would Do Differently

SPEAKER_00

sense. And um now is there something that you would change if you could start the whole thing over again?

SPEAKER_02

Um so as I mentioned, I would start an email list way earlier. That's the first thing from the beginning, honestly. Uh I probably waited like two years before starting my email list. Yeah, that was that. Um so I would start I think I would just start right, you know. I I started very um amateur, you know, it took me also until I had a hundred thousand subscribers. I didn't have a camera. I was filming on my phone. I'm not sure I had a mic. You know, I I it took me time to professionalize. So I feel like I would just do things right from the beginning. Like invest more in equipment, in v although you don't need it to start. Um, and you can definitely start on your phone, but once you see some traction, I would really invest in a small mic, it's not expensive. And um yeah, invest more in quality from the beginning.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, that just shows that so you came to 100k subscribers with a phone. So yeah, a bad phone also.

SPEAKER_01

Not an iPhone.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. So uh all you need basically is a good content. Uh something that you teach actually makes sense. And I mean building this with a bad phone, as you mentioned, without a mic and anything, and building it to 100k, that's but imagine if I had a mic, what would I be? 200k then.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Perfect.

Advice For Beginners And Plateaus

SPEAKER_00

Um before I let you go, uh, two quick ones. So imagine two different people are listening to this right now. Uh the first one has real expertise. They could teach, but they haven't launched anything yet. What would you say what's the first move?

SPEAKER_02

So they have teaching expertise, but do they have a following or not? Like do they have a kind of following?

SPEAKER_00

Could teach, but they haven't launched anything yet. They don't have the following. So they're just starting out with everything.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm. So I guess, yeah, my suggestion would be to start building some kind of following. Uh it doesn't have to be big, like I told you um earlier with the Hebrew. We now, of course, 50k is quite a lot, but for for um a long time we didn't have so many subscribers, but we did have some customers. So I feel like trying to establish some presence online to have um, you know, um, it doesn't have to be a YouTube channel, it can be an Instagram page because I think it is easier to start Instagram uh so that people can trust you, see who you are, you can start developing that relationship, and then having like a also, yeah, um, if you can have a free lead magnet, a small email list. I know that's quite a lot, maybe that sounds quite a lot, but starting with those things before uh trying to sell something, just you know, build the audience so then you have someone to sell to.

SPEAKER_00

And focusing on one channel, as you mentioned before. It's gonna be much easier than focusing on all the other different sort of channels and aspects rather than just going all into one thing.

SPEAKER_02

But maybe honestly, if you're starting today, maybe I would go and do Instagram. Like I don't know if I would start a YouTube channel. Of course, it depends, like I said, about what you'd like and what you're consuming, but but maybe yeah, start I feel like starting Instagram would might be easier than and less work than creating short uh long-form content and maybe with faster results. But I don't know, I I haven't really done it, but that's my impressions, maybe, maybe. Um and um but there are many people starting YouTube today as well. Like honestly, in the French niche, I see new channels every day. So it's still possible to grow on YouTube. But yeah, it depends what you what you like.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. And the second one has been at it for two years and hit a plateau. What do they do? So someone who already has an audience, they're already doing this, but they hit a plateau and they don't know what's next. Do you have a device for that?

SPEAKER_02

A plateau in like uh like their growth on the platform, or is it more like in sales?

SPEAKER_00

Like it can be any. It can be uh the platform, the sales, uh whatever. They just hit the plateau and uh they know they don't know what to do next.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, for me, when I feel like in those stagnation phases, I I'm trying to change things a bit. You know, for example, um, like I mentioned earlier, I used to have a membership also on Pisa French, and I felt like it was not really working the way I wanted to, and you know, it was kind of scary to close the membership and transform it into a new product, and um and um yeah, you have also recurring payments, so it was kind of a you know headache, but not to be afraid to change things, and you know, you don't have to stick with what used to work. Sometimes things stop working, so you have to re-evaluate your your business and your courses, and and maybe you have to create new new new products or repackage your products, for example. That's actually interesting because I took my old membership club and I pack repackaged it into what I call now the video club, which is a one-time payment. And I'm actually seeing sales from this whereas the the membership was really plateauing and even decreasing. And now like just by repackaging and changing a bit the offer, I you know, I'm still using all that work I did in the past, but in a new form.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, I think I would just reevaluate if you can change anything in the We've actually seen that before, repurposing content. So just repackaging as you mentioned. So um maybe you have something in your business that's laying around over there, which is ready to be sold, and people want it, but you just need to repackage it or just re-evaluate it and take it back and offer it and see uh see what will it do? So, yeah, perfect advice.

Where To Find Elsa And Closing

SPEAKER_00

Um, Elsa, thank you very much. You've given us a masterclass in running a business uh or running a course business like a business. So, where should people go to find you? Watch your work, see this whole approach in action.

SPEAKER_02

So, I guess YouTube. My OG, my good old YouTube. Um, my uh channel is called uh Peace of French, and I have my website as well, uh peaceoffrench.com.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Thank you very much. Uh that's it for this episode. If you got something out of it, and I really hope you did, subscribe so you don't miss the next one and come find more at datadrivenmarketing.co. I'm Dominic. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you in the next one.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.