The Art of Selling Online Courses

280 Your Best Lead Magnet Already Exists

• John Ainsworth • Season 1 • Episode 280

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Rosalie E'Silva spent years at CNN, NBC, Al Jazeera, and Bloomberg telling other people's stories. The whole time, she was keeping a secret: she'd been having out-of-body experiences since childhood and had never told anyone.

In 2024, she left broadcast journalism to teach Yoga Nidra for astral projection. She now has over 150,000 YouTube subscribers, more than 20 million views, and a course community whose students are so engaged they meet on Zoom and Discord without her, multiple times a week, just because they want to.

I sat down with Rosalie to talk about how she built this from scratch, starting with a video she almost deleted. They got into what astral projection actually is, why people seek it out, and what it does to someone who experiences it firsthand. Rosalie has a real gift for making something that sounds wildly esoteric feel completely accessible.

They also got practical. Rosalie's YouTube channel is bringing in around 207,000 views a month, but her email list sits at just over 1,500 people. I walked through exactly what I'd change, from where to place the lead magnet in meditation videos, to using her existing tracks as a tripwire offer, to what a simple value ladder could look like for her business.

It's a genuinely unusual conversation, part business strategy, part window into a world most people have never heard of. I think you'll enjoy it.

Check out Rosalie's work:
🌐 http://rosalieesilva.com
▶️ http://www.youtube.com/@RosalieYoga

Cold Open On Ads And Opt-Ins

SPEAKER_01

I just a really, really big enemy for us here.

SPEAKER_00

I honestly think you could be getting like two, three thousand new people onto your email list a month. Hers was five free meditations that she gave away as the lead magnet. And that worked brilliantly for her.

SPEAKER_01

A really easy one as well. Like it already exists. I don't have to create anything. Yeah, that's a good idea.

Rosalie’s Story From Newsroom To Nidra

SPEAKER_00

Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We are here to share winning strategies, secret hacks, and top performers in the online course industry. My name's John Ainsworth, and today's guest is Rosalie Eastilva. Now Rosalie built a career as a broadcast journalist telling other people's stories at CNN, NBC, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg, and then in 2024, she left to tell her own that she'd been having out-of-body experiences since childhood and has kept them secret for decades. In 2021, she posted a Yoga Nidra for Astral Projection video on YouTube. She almost deleted it, and the later version of that now has over a million views. Today, Rosalie is a Yoga Nidra teacher, an Astral Projection Guide with over 150,000 YouTube subscribers and over 20 million views. She makes altered states, out-of-body experiences and mystical experiences accessible, safe, and deeply transformative. Rosalie, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much, Sean. It's great to be here.

Who Searches For Astral Projection

SPEAKER_00

So who's the audience for you? Is it is it people who are searching for something about astral projection or out-of-body experiences already, or are they kind of discovering it for the first time through you? How's that kind of working?

SPEAKER_01

Mainly it's people who are looking for astral projections. So it's people who have touched something. They've had some kind of experience. You know, it's not maybe a full-blown out-of-body experience. Maybe they've had vibrations just before they go to sleep. This is very common, like the vibrational state. They've had some weird experience and then they start to search online, you know, on YouTube, um, for vibrational state or OBEs or astral projection, and that's how they find me. But I have people who fall asleep to my voice, and I've had so many people reach out and tell me as soon as they hear my voice, it's like their bodies conditioned to put them to sleep. So I have a lot of people who fall asleep to my voice every single night. So they come to me for astral projection, but they stay to go to sleep.

Why Yoga Nidra Puts You Out

SPEAKER_00

I had this uh Yoga Nidra that I listened to. It was fascinating, right? Because this this woman, she was a yoga teacher somewhere in I think the Midlands in the UK, and she had four videos on her channel, and one of them had like 139 views, one had 500, one had 700, and one had 21 million. And she had this yoga, this yoga nidra that she'd recorded. And I it really seemed like she'd just done it for her students who are in person, you know, and just oh, I'll put this up. And then it just gone totally viral, and and I'd listened to that many times, and I never knew what the second half of it sounded like. That's very hard. By the time I'd get 10 minutes in, I was like, I was out, and I was like, Oh, there is a second half. One day I was like, there is a second half to this.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that is actually one of the hardest parts of Yoganidra, staying awake. Um, because you get so deeply relaxed. The whole idea is to let the body deeply relax, but keep the mind awake. So you're really in that in-between state. And it's it's difficult, you know, especially in the beginning. You need to train the mind awake, body asleep state.

Defining OBEs And Astral Travel

SPEAKER_00

So what what is an out-of-body experience? Is that the same as an astral projection or is that a different thing? And what are they, what are they?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it's different people will tell you different things. But for me, astral projection is an intentional out-of-body experience. It's where you have this feeling that you're expanding beyond the physical body. And there's a real physicality to it. So it's not a dream. You can feel temperatures, you can feel textures, you can travel to other realms. You're completely limitless. Um, so there are really no boundaries to what you can do when you're in an astral projection or an out-of-body experience. What I teach people to do is to have an intentional out-of-body experience because there's been studies that have shown that about 20% of the population have had a conscious out-of-body experience. It could be, you know, for example, if you're had an operation, you've had anesthesia, and you just go up and you kind of see what's happening, and you, you know, you can watch the surgery happening. It can be something like that. It can be a spontaneous experience if you've been in an accident, or it can be an intentional one. And it's this intentional out-of-body experience that's called astral projection.

Why People Want Intentional OBEs

SPEAKER_00

Why do people want to do the intentional one? What's the what's the benefit from that?

SPEAKER_01

It's John, it's the most extraordinary thing. You are really knowing yourself as who you really are, and that's a being of energy and light. It's really touching on your true essence. So you are so much more than your physical body. And OBEs or out-of-body experiences give you that direct first-hand knowledge. You're not taking my word for it. You didn't hear some random person on this podcast saying you're so much more than your physical body. You know, because you've experienced it, you've experienced yourself as this pure being of light. And once you touch that, everything changes. Like you completely lose your fear of death, for example. That's a really big thing for many people because you know that when your physical body dies, that's not the end of you. You have experienced what comes after this. You can reconnect with loved ones who've crossed over. Many of my students come to me because they've lost someone and they're trying to reconnect with them in these other realms. You have direct access to your guides, to your higher self. You bring all of this back with you. And you have just the most extraordinary experiences. Like, yes, they're deeply transformative spiritual experiences, but this is, I mean, beyond any fun you've ever had in the physical world. Like, you know, I've been, for example, I was um when I did my my master's in international journalism, I was doing a documentary about the dolphin industry, the captive dolphin industry. So I had been filming dolphins in the Azores, free dolphins. I spent like weeks filming underwater and I had an OBE that night. I thought, what am I gonna do? You always need an intention. I'm gonna go see if I can swim at dolphins. It was the most extraordinary experience I've ever had to really swim underwater because you see into the energy of things. So I was really looking at like trails of energy behind these dolphins, and I'll never view dolphins it the same way after, you know, after that experience. It's but again, it's something you need to experience for yourself. So don't take my word for it. And I always say, like, don't even believe me, but maybe have a part of you that's open to knowing that this is a possibility. Because once you experience it for yourself, you think, oh my God, like what have I been missing my whole life? It's extraordinary what you can do.

SPEAKER_00

Beautiful.

The Astral Travel Blueprint Offer

SPEAKER_00

And how are you helping people to so obviously you've got the YouTube channel, you've got your YouTube videos there for free. What is the the the paid offerings that you've got for helping people? You've got a course, but you've got some some more offerings as well, right?

SPEAKER_01

I do. I mean, the main thing is my course, but I really I mean, I feel like it's my my life calling to help open this door to as many people as possible, which is why I create so many YouTube um astral projection meditations. That's you know, many, many people will practice those with me on YouTube. But then if they want to go deeper with me and they really want to learn directly from me and have direct access to me, then then they join my course, the Astral Travel Blueprint, because that includes like a weekly coaching call. And I've kind of evolved it. Um so it's sometimes a coaching call, sometimes it's an expert workshop, sometimes it's community spotlight, or sometimes it's a live guided practice with me. So I kind of rotate through those. Um, and that's once a week. And then they have all the curriculum, which lives online on ThinkIphic, and then the third part is a private community on Facebook and Discord. So that is my main offering. That's if someone really wants to come in deep and really learn from me. Um I also offer some of my tracks on my website. So if people really like to track on YouTube and, you know, they want to practice it without the fear of ads. Ads is a really, really big enemy for us here in the meditation space. Of course, I always turn them off in the middle. I only allow them at the top of the video, but you can't always control where YouTube's gonna drop an ad. And recently I was listening to one and not one of my own. I was listening to someone else's, and there were three ads in the first 10 minutes, and I just I had to stop listening because it's you're trying to access this very deep, relaxed state, and then you know, blaring ad. So if someone wants to make sure they're not gonna be interrupted by an ad, they'll buy a meditation track from me on my website. Um, so that's the second offering. And then I have a dreamslash astral projection journal on Amazon as well, um, which gives you a kind of structured approach to this practice. And people who'd like to join my course, but it's just not possible for them at the moment, that's what I tend to drive them towards because um it gives you, you know, kind of the the the pathway there with uh without the direct kind of guidance for me.

Selling Tracks To Avoid YouTube Ads

SPEAKER_00

I'm just thinking if you're including all of those things, you know, you've got group calls, you've got private community, you're kind of keeping going, guided meditations or like an expert work uh workshop. That's that's quite a lot on your part to keep doing for people. Is do they just have a one-off price?

SPEAKER_01

It's a one-off price and it's for the lifetime of the course. Okay. So once they join, they join for the lifetime of the course. And for me, that is critical. And the reason for that is because, as you mentioned, you know, I've been having these experiences since I was a child, but I kept them such a secret. Like I could not walk into a newsroom and start talking about these crazy things I get up to at night. So it was really like a secret. What I was so craving and missing was a community, like a safe space where I could share my experiences. And that is what I'm giving to my students. Probably the best part of my training is my community. I have incredible, incredible students from you know around the world who are so open and supportive of each other. Um, and yes, I do have this weekly coaching call, but they're so like highly engaged, they actually meet once or twice a week without me as well. So they've created their own, their own groups, um, once on Zoom and one on Discord, because that is like the level of connection and support that's been fostered within my community. It's beautiful to see.

SPEAKER_00

That's great. How many students you got in that?

SPEAKER_01

Right now I have just over 50. So I launched my uh evergreen course. It was the full moon of March 2025. So slightly over a year ago. Yeah, I had 50 students. But I started with doing like a beta version of my course. So I when I knew I wanted to do this, when I was serious about it, I spoke to over 70 people interested in astral projection just to find out what are their biggest pain points, what do they hope to achieve in the out-of-body state, all of these things. And I put all of that into like a beta course. So I taught that live to 18 students over the course of eight weeks, took all their feedback, and then created my evergreen version. So it was like um, it's this is kind of the the second version of my course. Um having all the feedback from my my live cohort that I did in 2024.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. And then what's uh what size is your how many views a month are you getting on YouTube?

SPEAKER_01

Tell you exactly. I can look up at my stats. Watch time reviews. Views I have had like in the last 28 days, 207,000.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And then when you're when you ask, do you sell the course in like uh um only at certain times of the year or do you is it always available?

SPEAKER_01

It's it's evergreen. Yeah, it's always available.

SPEAKER_00

And how does that work? Does someone just buy that online? Because you said that the price isn't publicly available. So they is it do you have a call with them or do they buy it online? Or like how does that work?

Lifetime Pricing And Community As Value

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so um I've had two versions of this. So you know, I've had um where it was only through a call, but now I have like an application form in between just to make sure that the people who are actually booking the call are people who are ready to invest in themselves and in in this course because I had I I loved it last year. I I did so many calls. I a lot of people who just wanted to meet me and just wanted to have a chat. And that um I got a lot of information from that, but I have to stop doing that. So I um created now the this application form before you're able to book a call with me because I needed some kind of you know, filter barrier to just booking a call with me. Um it's it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00

It's one of the things that happens when you're a famous YouTuber within your niche. Like I was chatting with a friend of mine, uh Emma from Pronunciation with Emma. I think she's been on the podcast, and um, she had the same thing. She started doing a higher ticket um offering and she sold it through a call, and loads of people just wanted to chat with her and just booked a call just so they could talk. It's like that's nice for you, and it's it's nice to talk to each person, but it's like you've only got so much time in your week. Exactly, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, especially for me. I live in Hong Kong, and so my time zone is is one of my biggest uh obstacles because I'm 12 hours ahead of US Eastern time. About 60 to 70 percent of my students are based in the US and Canada. So these calls happen very early in the morning for me or very late at night. And so, like to fill my, you know, those times with calls is I want to make sure the people who are on the calls are the people who are really ready for this. And if they're not, there are other ways that we can work together. But this is really for people who are ready to invest in themselves because it is an investment that they'll be making.

SPEAKER_00

The tracks that you mentioned, are you selling those on the website?

SPEAKER_01

I do.

SPEAKER_00

How much do you sell those for?

SPEAKER_01

Um, in Hong Kong dollars, it's a hundred Hong Kong dollars, which is about 12 US dollars, roughly.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um what's the process when you are selling the Evergreen course? Where do most sales come from? Are they direct from YouTube? Are they from your email list? Are they the website direct from YouTube?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. YouTube is my I I would say 95% of the people who join my course know me from YouTube, have joined my email list, and then they sign up. So it's okay.

SPEAKER_00

So the email list is kind of the in-between step for most of them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't think for everyone. I don't think for everyone. And I haven't tracked exactly how many have come through the lead magnet. I've actually just put a tracking uh system in place. So I'll be able to have that data. But I at the moment I just know one of the questions I ask in the application form is how do you know me? And actually 100% of the people have said through YouTube. So I know that's that's that's my main source.

YouTube Funnel And Email List Reality

SPEAKER_00

And how big's your email list at the moment?

SPEAKER_01

It's not big because I cleared out so many people. It's like a thousand, just over a thousand five hundred. Um, I used to have a lot more, but it's I started this list 12 years ago when I was a yoga teacher, like physical asana yoga. Um, and it's my you know, my offerings have evolved from that through my channel as well. If you look at my early videos, they're cringy. It's me doing like sun salutations and things like this. Um, but evolved to to meditation and then Yoga Nidra, now just Yoga Nidra for astral projection. Um, so I know a lot of people, it and it's fair enough, you know, like they're they haven't moved in this direction with me. So I wanted to really clear out my list. And I'm left with just over a thousand five hundred like engaged uh people um in my list. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

About how many new subscribers are you getting a month?

SPEAKER_01

I just checked it yesterday and it was 111. So I I know what I could be better at is having that bridge, like having a better call to action in my videos. Um, it's just very difficult if you're guiding someone, like a meditation video is very different from a talking head video where you can like interrupt and you know, say if you da da da. But like a meditation video, like my intention there is not to bring people into my world. Like it's you don't want to interrupt the state you're you're you're creating for someone by like making this advert. I never say it at the end. In a few of my videos, I say it at the beginning now. Um, but it's not always not always well received either. I have uh so it's uh for me that's tricky when you have a meditation video, is where do you leave this call to action inside of the video itself?

SPEAKER_00

What what's the problem people have had when you said it's not well received?

SPEAKER_01

Um someone said, like, we don't need to hear your promo or something like that. Um as actually just one comment, but it was a recent comment that someone made.

SPEAKER_00

It's stuck with you, has it? I'm like I'm like that sometimes. I'm like, I know this is fine what I'm doing, but it's uh but I also am like a sensitive soul who like doesn't want to upset anybody.

SPEAKER_01

And the thing is, there's so much love that goes into creating these tracks. Like I spend so much time creating really, really high quality uh tracks for people. And I, you know, like I for me, giving someone that experience is the main thing. Um the biggest reward I have is hearing from people around the world who tell me about their experiences and tell me that it's through me that I've opened up this whole new world for them. Like for me, that is the biggest reward you could ever give me. It's uh it's not, you know, selling something, it's just knowing what a big impact I'm having. And if, you know, me like seeing a promo is impacting someone in that case, yeah, it doesn't feel doesn't feel great.

SPEAKER_00

What's the what lead magnets have you got? Is it always the I know there was one I I just uh went and signed up for, which was the Astral Projection Guide, I think?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a five-step guide.

SPEAKER_00

Um is that your your only lead magnet, or do you kind of mix it up with different ones?

SPEAKER_01

Nope, that's the only one. That's it. Okay. I used to have something else. I used to have a like an email uh mini course, but I I stopped that. No, it this is this is my my main one, and I'm actually thinking of creating another one because I'm learning to be a lot more kind of specific, like what is a specific pain point? Uh, for example, and this is for people who, you know, who've been on this path, is getting stuck in the vibrational state. There's a state, like there's five steps to astral projection, the way I teach it. Other people say it differently, but like you are in this mind awake, body sleep state where you feel surges of energy through you. And it's it can be really, really intense. But what can happen is you just stay stuck there. You don't progress, you don't make the exit, which would be the fourth step to go out of body. That is probably the biggest pain point for, and I know this through my comments and through through the students in my course as well. Like overcoming that is the biggest obstacle. And I think the more specific you can be, the better you know your audience, the the you know, the more value you can bring them. So I'm thinking of creating a new league magnet that addresses this specific problem.

SPEAKER_00

Why and you you said you'd got like about 200,000 views a month on YouTube, was that right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was just over that. 200 and whoops, 207 in the last 28 days.

SPEAKER_00

Based on what I've seen, and so I've I've worked with a lot of course creators, um, I don't know, a couple hundred. And what I've seen is that almost always you can get one to two percent opt-in rate from from long form views to um email subscribers per month. And so for you at those numbers, that would be like two to four thousand opt-ins per month. And I think that's like the unlock for you is is figuring that bit out. Because at the moment you're saying you've got great views, right? 200,000 views a month is awesome. So then and you've got your course and you're happy with that, and you you have as far as I can it's like how well is that converting from the call to the to the sale when you do now you've got the the form in between?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's better. It is better. Yeah. Okay. Like it's uh because I don't have that high volume of people, like the people coming to me are you know are are ready, they they know what the cost is, like they're they're ready to to invest. Um it's just more like a final chat to see if it's a good fit for both of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I I suspect if you if you just could grow the email list faster on its own, that would probably be the biggest unlock. Just from what I've heard so far, I I'll um I'd need to ask more questions and see more numbers to kind of be certain, but that's probably because you're so far beneath the what you've almost certainly got potential for with that. And I get what you're saying in terms of like it's tricky because you don't want to interrupt you like halfway through a meditation or a yoga nidra or something like that and be like, right now go and download your, you know, like I wouldn't do that. So that's like a uh a tricky bit. I think some of the ones you've got, some of the videos you've got, like the talking head ones, where you're explaining a concept to an idea and what have you, I think that one's kind of simpler.

Lead Magnet Placement That Feels Natural

SPEAKER_00

If I was, can I give some tips on what I'd change if I was you?

SPEAKER_01

100%, yes. Love to hear.

SPEAKER_00

What I do with those ones is after point one, let's say you've got five points in your video. After point one is where I'd put in the lead magnet, like mention it. Because if you look at the the view time on videos, you'll see there's always obviously the drop-off at the beginning, right? And so that's why we all work on our hooks to try and make that beginning bit as engaging as possible. But then gradually after that it goes down. So if you don't put the lead mag mention the lead magnet till the end, you've got the smallest number of people who would possibly see it. But if you say it right at the beginning, you've got the danger of the the drop-off being faster because you're not giving someone that most engaging uh hook at the very start. But after point one is kind of that sweet spot, you know, you've had your hook and the introduction, you've got point one, and then you and then you mention the lead magnet. And it it doesn't have to be that it takes very long, whatever you're covering in that. I just it but you were mentioning about the pain points. If it's really connected to the pain point that they're then feeling that the video is helping them with, and it takes them that next level deeper, then that can convert really well. So the best I've ever seen is like a 10% conversion from views to people downloading the lead magnet at that stage. That's hard to do because you've got to get a lot of things right. It's got to be a video where people have high intent, where they have a definite problem that needs solving, where you're helping them with the stuff. But if they download the lead magnet, it's gonna allow them to do it quicker, more easily. It's like generally better to have a resource than to have information. So there's a lot of things to kind of line up. But we just need to get you to like if we can just get you to 1%, then that's like gonna massively increase and grow your email list like way faster. So I think the basics is just like if you had it mentioned there, um, and the existing lead magnet or anything new you come up with. The other thing I would change is in at the moment you've got the um that guide in your description and you've got it hyperlinked, which is great. But if you move that up to be above the fold, so before they click that more button, then that's gonna that's gonna make it easier to see because it's just more obvious, it's more in their face. Like so everything else can stay where it is under the fold. I know you've got obviously your timestamps and you've got links to other YouTube videos, and you've got a link to your course and all that kind of stuff. But if you move that lead magnet up to the very top with just like one very short sentence saying why they should download it, that will help. If you also put it as the pinned comment, if you haven't got something else as a pinned comment, that's another it just makes it so easy for people to spot it and download it, you know. Um, the ones with the meditations, I I think that I would have at least a sentence mentioning it at the beginning and at the end, like and try and make that just be as natural as possible. So today I'm going to be teaching you this meditation. If you want to learn the entire process, you can download my guide by clicking the link in the description and then carry on, you know, before you kind of got right into the meditation, something like that. Because it's just such a big deal from uh from uh getting people into the course point of view to get them onto the email list, and therefore to every YouTube video I feel should be moving people towards that in some way or another, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I I I have put it in some some videos. Um it's actually is is it tends to be like in the second minute, like you settle people in that maybe I should make it more in the in the top. I don't know. I just don't want people to like say, oh, and then they're I know, right?

SPEAKER_00

That's the balance. That's that's the balance of marketing. It's like, how do you give, you're giving all this content for free, but you don't want people to go, uh, but you do want to get into one female list. It's like that's the that's the the the thing we have to kind of maneuver our way through and like make sure we're doing it in a tasteful way as nicely, but it is important, you know. Like I honestly think you you could be getting like two, three thousand new people onto your email list a month if you get all of these things, if you get a bunch of these things all different, all lined up, you know. Maybe it's a slight if if you do all of those things and it's still not growing that fast, then it's worth looking at other lead magnets of like, okay, well, what else could I give people that they do find more useful? I'll give you another idea from a related, not the same, but related kind of uh niche. So there was uh a client of ours, Teal Swan, who's in the kind of spirituality self-help. I've heard of her so not a million miles from the stuff. It's not the same, she's not doing out-of-body experiences, but um hers was five free meditations that she gave away as the lead magnet. And I just I know you're doing meditations, and that worked brilliantly for her. And so you were mentioning about the tracks that you've got. I wonder if a few of those you could be giving that away as the lead magnet and test that one out. So you were doing this meditation today. If you want more that you could just listen to um offline, on your phone, whatever, then you can just download them, just click the link. And then there's a ri what happens then is there's a beautiful connection between the video and the lead magnet, in that it's just more of the same thing. And you so you know these people like meditations because they're listening to you doing a meditation. So they're gonna be more interested in in more of those.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that would be a really easy one as well. Like it already exists.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

I don't have to create anything. You just give them a promo code, they go into your shop and and order it. Yeah, that that's actually a good idea. Um, yeah, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00

The other thing we've done with her, which is a slightly more advanced technique, is we had five meditations for free.

Free Meditations And Tripwire Strategy

SPEAKER_00

And then on the comp there's something called do you know what a tripwire is?

SPEAKER_01

Um not really, no.

unknown

No.

SPEAKER_00

So the idea of tripwire is it's like a a really cheap product that somebody can buy um as their first step that kind of gets them into your world a bit more. So they've paid some money, so you like your tracks fit perfectly for that, as that kind of step. And specifically, the place that it sits is after the lead magnet. So someone signs up for the lead magnet, and then so let's say it was five free tracks, five free meditations, then the confirmation page is a sales page for do you want my full all of them? If you want that, then you can buy that now at a discount. So instead of, you know, like with with Teals One, we'd said it was 27 meditations for $27. That was the the deal. Um and so it was like, okay, normal price, $50 reduced down to $27, and someone can buy it straight away. And that converted fantastically. So like 10% of people who signed up to the email list then bought something at that stage. I'd say that's like a a a further down the line kind of thing for you because until you've grown the email list faster, it won't make enough of a difference. You know, even if you sold 10%, that's still only 12 sales of $20 or something per month, it's like it's not gonna change your life. You know, but if it was if it was two or three thousand people signing up a month, all of a sudden it's like, oh, okay, this is actually quite this is actually quite a big deal. And then what happens is people who get that, people who have paid you money and got something back from it. So they're like, oh, I paid twenty dollars or twenty-seven dollars or whatever, and what I got was fantastic, are much more likely to buy something else because they've had that experience of of of having a transaction with you and um and then being very impressed by what they got. And then they're like, okay, well, what else can I spend money on to get even more? And that tends to convert kind of better later on as well. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01

Could you make it a bundle? Because I wouldn't do all my tracks. I think I have like 70 tracks. Could you make it um like you get one free and then a tripwire that would be to then get like you know five more for the price of something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think it would work great. I think it's such a good fit with the stuff that you're currently doing. And you people then don't have to worry about ads at all because it's not on it's not on YouTube now. They've now moved over into your email list, but also uh can download them.

SPEAKER_01

And I think it's a very natural fit then. You know, the issue that we were talking about is for meditation tracks. You know, you don't want to download this free guide. You know, if if you enjoyed this meditation and you'd like to download it for free, you know, just click the description in the video. So that would work really well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. That would yeah, that would be beautiful actually, if it's that exact meditation they're gonna get.

SPEAKER_01

I could do that for one that I know it's going to do really well. Like, for example, I collaborate with the Monroe Institute, which is the the world's leading organization for the exploration of consciousness. So I send them my tracks that we've they've uh my voice, and they put on their their Monroe Sound Science, which are binaryl beats and different sound technology to help people go deeper into these altered states. So we have a few tracks on my website that we've done a collaboration on, and these tracks will always do well. So I could see if they wanted to, because for them as well, they want them to have as much reach as possible. So um that would be a great one to do or something like that. Yeah. Okay. I like it. All right.

Value Ladders And Expanding Beyond A Niche

SPEAKER_00

What's next for you? Where do you want to get to with the business? Is it is it are you happy just totally happy and you just want to keep doing what you're doing, or is there anything you want to be able to change or grow or do differently?

SPEAKER_01

No, I mean it is changing my course because the more I evolve in my own practice, um, the more I learn, I bring that into my course as well. So I'm the course for me isn't something static. It's it's kind of evolving at the same time, um, which I love. You know, I do that through the calls, but I'm also going to tweak a few things in the curriculum. Um I have been told quite a few times that it would be nice to have an in-between. So, yes, I have this premium course, but to go from buying a track for 12 US dollars to the course, there's a very big gap. And if I had like a kind of membership site, um people would, you know, join that and then maybe later come into the course. Yeah. I don't know what your thoughts are on something like that. But I quite a few people have suggested it to me recently.

SPEAKER_00

The the marketing term for that is value ladder. So it's like, and it works great. Like if you have something that's cheaper, something that's a bit more, and then something that's premium, I think it's fantastic because some people are willing to spend very large amounts of money for whatever kind of the best possible support they could get. And then there's a whole load of people who either aren't able or aren't willing to, you know, and maybe they would be willing to if they bought the cheaper thing and had a great experience, and then they're like, okay, I'm going to upgrade. But typically it's like a a small percentage of people have the means and the and the desire to spend that larger amount. So having something in between. Um, the way I often do it with our um pe you know, course creators who I've helped is have um a few offerings that are around the like 200-300 kind of dollar price point, something in that kind of range. Because there's all every it means every month you can promote a different one of them, and there'll be a big proportion of people, especially as your email us grows, who will be up for buying something at that kind of price each time. But then I what you've got that I I normally struggle to get people on board with is having then the premium version as well. So you've got the premium version, but you've not got the bit underneath. And in my experience, it can just uh for you it's a lovely bit of passive income because you've create the thing and then afterwards people just buy that whenever you do a promotion for it. Um but for the people um for your customers, your clients, it's just great for people to be able to have something they can get at a a price point they can afford, you know. Is there things that you've thought about, like what would what might be in that? Like would it be a part of your main course or would it be something different? How would it work?

SPEAKER_01

It would be different. Um, so you know, because I I did a course, as I mentioned, to create the course. I did the authority accelerator um with Sonny Leonarduzzi, and she's very much about niching down, being hyper-specific about who you're talking to, really knowing your ideal client inside out. Um, so it's very specific. It's about, you know, astral projection. This is this is what I focus on. Um, but there's so much more that I want to offer. Um, so I get really excited at the thought of being able to expand beyond strictly talking about astral projection. And one thing in particular is, you know, I have just a very close um connection with a guide. And it's it's a guide that came through to me about almost 10 years ago when I did, oh actually more than 10 years ago, when I did a Reiki training. And in deep meditation, I connect with her and then I come back and she just writes through me. And it's the most incredible insights. Um, and I'm I'm collating them all in a journal. But I was just, I feel really called to kind of share what she pours through me. And so a part of this would be maybe like daily insights from Annalise, you know, this this guy that I I've just have a really, really strong connection to. Um, again, that sounds so crazy when I say it's very woo-woo, but it's it's just it's something that has made such a big impact for me. And I tell my students about it. You know, my community knows very well how connected I am to her, but it's not something I talk at all outside of my private community. But I would love to have like regular kind of downloads from her and share those with people because they're incredibly insightful. It would be, you know, having meditations, doing live guided practices, notes from Annalise would be a part of it. It would be broader kind of spiritual growth and not just astral projection. Many of those people will be interested in astral projection, but it won't be the only thing. And what happens is when you start to really have your own OBEs, out-of-body experiences, you find this whole new world opens. Um, one of my students has said, like, what has been the most profound change for her haven't been the OBEs that she's had, it's what's come after. Like she has had this whole world of like talking, she never knew what even chakra meant, things like this. Like it's the whole world of energy has opened up to her. And she thinks that's even more um kind of powerful and beneficial to her in this daily life than the actual OBEs, even, even though she's had incredible experiences. Um, so that excites me is to really be able to be a little bit broader and a bit more expansive than just really niching down on astral projection. I don't know how that doesn't fit into the model that I've been taught, though. And that's what kind of holds me back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, I I've heard of Sonia. I've seen a couple of our videos, but I don't know much about her her program. But it that's what has worked incredibly well for like everybody that I've worked with. People when people have got like three, four, five, five or more courses, it's just becomes really easy to have um from a business point of view to just always have something that you're promoting. So every month, so I if you're not launching something, if it's not new, it's still new to a lot of the people on your email list who only signed up recently. So every month, what we encourage people to do is do a promotion. Okay, one of their courses. And it works great. Like it doesn't cause people in the email list to go, ugh, because I mean that one of the things that one of the things that we do, actually, I'll just touch on this briefly, is every email within a promotion for a course, we will put a link saying if this week we're going to be talking about this course. If you're not interested to hear about it, click this link and we just won't send you any emails this week. You'll still be on the email list, you'll still get emails in future or email newsletter, everything else, but you just won't get anything about this course this week. And then people can just be like, oh, I I can easily opt out of that. I don't have to like be annoyed by these emails on this topic I didn't want to hear about. And so that kind of just reduces that pressure a little bit when you are when you are doing that. And from a from a revenue point of view, I think it's absolutely fantastic. Like I think if you had if you were getting two or three thousand people opting in a a month and you built up an email list of then, you know, twenty thousand, then you could easily be making let me think, could easily be making an additional like ten, fifteen thousand a month just from that, and quite possibly more. Um, just from having those individual courses each month. And when you do a launch of something, then that's a big spike when it's a new thing, because all your most loyal fans will want to buy everything that you've got, you know, so you always have a big spike on that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's just something I'm I'm kind of considering at the moment.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, that's cool, right? It's it's one of the things that's tricky, isn't it, with business? It's like there's so many ideas of things you want to do and so little time to do it. And you've got to be like, well, which angle am I gonna go down? But if you do do that, I think it'll go great for you. I think that'll work really well.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Yeah, I'll have a think about it. I mean, I've had incredible experience with Sunny's course, so that's the thing. It's I really believe in her methods as well. I mean, she always says this thing is um um, you know, it's really about niching down um specific equal sales and like precise equals. I can't I can't repeat it. I've heard it so many times. But it's really about knowing, knowing your ICA and be really, really niche down, um, which I have done. I really have done that for astral projection. But um, there's so many things that interest me. And that's what I love is like what you offer is a reflection of you. And as you evolve, that evolves as well, you know. So it's like I I like this whole connection I have now, I really want to be able to share that. Um just they would just be like voice notes coming through what she's uh what she tells me.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. That's cool.

Where To Find Rosalie And Final CTA

SPEAKER_00

Well, this has been fantastic. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today and just kind of share your journey and and what's been working for you. If anybody's like, oh my god, I need to know more about this, where do they go check you out?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just go to my website. So it's rosaliesilver.com or my YouTube channel's Rosalie Yoga.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. That's rosalieesilva.com or rosalieyoga on YouTube. Um as always, thanks so much for listening. Uh, really appreciate you guys. If you want to learn more about uh how to grow your email list, uh you can download the complete lead magnet guide at data drivenmarketing.co slash lead dash magnet. Thanks again for listening. And Rosalie, thanks again so much for coming on today.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, John. Thank you for having me.