281 How I Sell Out Photography Workshops Organically

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Iwona Podlasińska picked up a camera in 2014 to photograph her own kids. Ten years later, she's run workshops in 17 countries, was named the most followed photographer on Flickr in 2017, and has thousands of students learning her distinctive dreamy, light-filled portrait style. John sat down with her to hear how that actually happened, and what running that kind of business really looks like day to day.

What came through most clearly was how honest Iwona is about the gaps. She knows she has a large, loyal audience across Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. She knows she has products people want, from in-person workshops priced up to $1,000 a ticket to courses, presets, and overlays. But the bit in the middle, converting that audience into consistent revenue, is the part she's still working out. Her email marketing hasn't been performing and she's not entirely sure why. Her organic social reach, which has always driven workshop bookings, is starting to get harder. And she's thinking seriously about what she offers after someone has already done a workshop.

She also talked about something that doesn't come up enough in these conversations: the value of cooperation. Partnering with hosts, organizations, and other platforms has consistently widened her audience, even when it meant sharing the income. That's a trade-off she's made deliberately, and it's worked.

This one's a little different from our usual episodes. Iwona isn't sitting on a polished system. She's a world-class photographer figuring out the business side in real time, and that makes it a genuinely interesting conversation. I think you'll enjoy it.

Check out Iwona's work:
🌐 https://iwonapodlasinska.com
📸 https://www.instagram.com/iwonapodlasinska
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/@iwonapodlasinska

Transcript

Welcome And Who Ivona Serves

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Ivona, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Hi, thank you so much for having me here. I really appreciate this. That's a great opportunity. And I'm looking forward to hearing your questions.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Well, talk us all through. Who's your audience? Who are you helping with your courses and your workshops and everything else that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Um, judging on who comes to my workshop, those are most mostly women. Uh, and those are mostly women after 35, like over 35, um, up to maybe 60, sometimes over 60, usually moms, uh, that either just want to take photos of their own kids or mostly kind of looking forward to maybe making this another uh like a career, or maybe just like a side job, uh, so they can you know do what they love. It's usually photographer lovers, and they've they've knew that they loved photography for all their life, that they're now just trying to either you know f finally have that passion uh in their life, actually after having their children, after you know, doing the the hardest job as a mom when everything settles down, uh, or sometimes grandmas, like now, women at a certain age, although they are sometimes men, it just maybe 10 or 20 percent um are men.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Okay, okay. And how often do you do those workshops for people?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

We depends on the time. Sometimes those are very often. Sometimes, you know, there are months like in um November when it's very cold, and a lot of people don't really want to come to an outdoor workshop. Um, and I will still do some, especially in the like on those uh warmer places on earth. Like I would sometimes go to Texas, for example. This is a great time because it's not hot, not hot anymore. Uh, here in Europe, it's usually June, July, uh, May. So I just had a workshop in Denmark uh this weekend, two weeks ago I was in uh Holland, the Netherlands. Um through three weeks ago I was in Sweden. So sometimes it would be very, very often. And then at the time, I feel like I'm I cannot get um a hold of what I'm doing online because you know it's always I'm always somewhere. And then

Running Workshops Around The World

SPEAKER_01 3:40

there are sometimes some months like from like December and January where I do more of like my sort of internet um so I'm sorry, some like on my online stuff. Like I would try to to uh catch up with um like record maybe on your course if I have an idea for that.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

It looks like you do these courses in some lovely places, which is really cool, right? That must be fun traveling. I see you're in the New Forest, which is one of my favorite spots in the UK. Oh yes, absolutely lovely. You went to Valencia, which I went to about a month or two ago. It was just a gorgeous city, and then Vienna, and I don't know anything about Leipzig, but I see that you've got a whole load of these coming out. This is great, isn't it? Do you enjoy it?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I love traveling, and people often ask me, like, how do I find the places? And the thing is that um I don't usually choose the spots myself, sort of like with a finger on a map, as I say. Uh I usually have hosts that invite me to certain places. Um, and those are either some other photography lovers that find me online and they say, like, hey, I want to open my studio, my home for this workshop. I want you to come. I can organize everything. Sometimes organizations that run workshops, like for example, in Sweden, uh, in December I'm doing a um and workshop uh in the winter time, and it's uh it's an organization that does that for people. They have their own group of photographers that they would take on uh photography journeys, so like to Africa, photographing alliance, but also at the same time will do workshops. So uh and also what I love about uh you know traveling, one more thing that I wanted to say that I really love the fact that I often I'm often at just local people's houses, and I can learn a little bit about you know how they live, how they run their life, you know, in between the workshop, of course, is just another way traveling. You or what you think about traveling is often that people just go to like uh touristy places and that you should just see or this or that when you're a certain country, but I what I find really interesting is just being uh in people's houses and seeing how they live their life. That that's that's another way of knowing the world. Um, I guess I

How Hosting And Revenue Splits Work

SPEAKER_01 5:55

I for me it's that's even more interesting.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

So, how does that work from a financial point of view if there's other people inviting you to do the workshop? So you selling to your own audience? Or are they selling some of them or like is it how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, so so two different ways. So either it's if it's uh I would take a private host or a fellow photographer uh doing that, then uh I say uh I tell them that the deal is that I'm going to gather the group using my own audience uh on my social media, and your job is just to help me around. Um, they usually don't make money on this, they they only get uh only uh they get a uh workshop in return. But for uh there are some um some organizations that do that. For example, as I said, like Zoom, uh Photo Resort is going to make money on this and they are going to sell that. And in that case, I have to make an agreement on them how much uh I'm involved in the whole selling process. Um and really depends on how like what kind of deal we have, like if I'm making money on uh uh on a person or if I'm making money from the group, of course, that that in in a different way incentivize me to doing more uh advertising. So um really depends on how I I think I feel like both ways uh work great. First of all, like on first first uh type, uh say that the private host, then of course I'm making all the money uh and uh I'm I have my costs, like I have to travel there, I I have to sometimes book a um like a hotel room, I have to book some things, of course, uh that's a cost. And but I'm not actually sharing the uh income with anybody else. Uh and that's good, but what uh but um I don't feel like it's the best. I think it's good doing both. And I um as I said in the in the email that we were sharing, that I find that uh working with others uh is is very important, even if I'm not making full amount of money off this. I'm I'm aware that like maybe they get getting half of that, but they really help me out with widening my audience. Uh and and that's very important. Some uh sometimes people say like, oh, how do you like so they only organize and they get half of that, but then on the other hand, I'm telling that if they incentivize to to um to sell this, they are going to spread my name around and then say like hey, is this for course? Even if those people don't take the course right now, there's always kind of widening my audience. And if I start trying to sell things or organically mostly, because workshops I do sell mostly organically. I tried to do some um advertising like uh Facebook, but it's really it doesn't really work very well for me because it's a very specific, very uh narrow group of people that would do the workshop, and it's uh also sometimes people would say, some of my hosts, oh, I have this person that do that does advertising, like marketing, maybe they can help. And I tell you that really don't believe that's going to help because what I see uh people uh because I have a very as I said at the beginning, I have a very specific type of photography, and they have to know that this is what they're looking for. It's not like anyone that has a camera will want to do this type of workshop, they have to know that this is a specific thing. So then advertising um that didn't work for me because it kind of goes to a like a more audio a more wide audience, and uh and I didn't see much uh that actually working for me. I would spend a lot of money, but still, you know, have the same amount of bookings as I had if I was if I was just doing that organically. Whilst for other things that I do, because there are also online courses, sometimes presets, like different different levels of people what people can get when it comes to money and kind of amount of of uh of stuff, then then in in that case, you know, uh advertising um like Facebook sort of adverts work better in that situation.

Pricing A Workshop And Group Size

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah, so okay. Yeah, that's what I that's what I see so far. Um yeah, that's what I think.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

What do you see with the workshops? How much do people pay for a ticket to attend one?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Um usually between 700 euro and a thousand dollars. So I'm giving different different numbers because it really depends on like um where where those photos are, where those photos are sold. Uh so it really depends on how much cost there is and what's included. Um I would say like if if it's usually of all the previous ones that I had in Europe, then you know, accommodation wasn't included. Um there was around like 700 euro. But then uh if I fly to the US, then that's usually more expensive because of course my costs are bigger. Then on the other hand, I sometimes do in Poland, I do um some workshops with accommodations where I run the whole building and we spend two days together, uh, which is a great experience because you get to know people better uh when you just spend the whole two days with them and you know some really nice friendships are made then. And then of course it's a little more expensive because you know I have to pay for for the building. So I'm trying to kind of like calculate my costs uh around it. I basically know how much I'm going to spend for a plane ticket to anywhere in Europe, so that I can uh say that it will be probably around 700 euro for uh for a workshop without accommodation somewhere in Western Europe.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

Okay, cool. And what do you how many people could attend one of those?

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Um up to 10.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Up to 10. Sometimes I will do poor. But then poor is still okay for me. So I I'm not doing a lot of money, but still I'm like, you know, I'm not losing money. And then it's easier for me to run because those are often um those are the the ch children usually post for those photos. And even if those were not children, you know, it's uh it's a lot of it's difficult to take uh photos in such a big group, and I feel like I'm not able to attend every single person so well in a bigger group, but at the same time, of course, I'm trying to make some money at the same time. So yeah, so it's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

I was chatting with um, I don't know if you've ever come across him, Mark Smith, Mark Smith Photography. He does uh birds uh like birds in flight. I'm just gonna double check that I've got his name right because I read this episode before, but yeah, that was it, Mark Smith. Yeah, and he basically said he sells courses and he's got a big audience, but he doesn't all he really wants to do is be outside taking photos. So when he's doing the workshops, he's like, Great, because we're outside taking photos, and I'm showing other people how to do it, but I'm also taking photos. And when he's like selling courses and doing email marketing, he's like, I just want to be outside taking photos.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah, yeah, that's how I feel sometimes when I spend more of most of the time doing the content, creating uh creating content for my social media, and I feel like um this is not what I signed up for.

SPEAKER_04 12:59

Well, let's talk

Organic Sales Via Facebook And Reels

SPEAKER_04 13:00

about that a little bit. Like, what's your uh main traffic source? What's the biggest uh social media for you?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Um funny thing is they focus so much on Instagram, but actually Instagram uh doesn't do as well as Facebook. Uh, I don't know. I think the reason is that this is a certain group of people, like they're over 40, sometimes 50. And I feel like those that the little older audience uh prefers Facebook or Instagram, but for photographers, basically Instagram is the the place to be. Um I'm also trying to, I'm not very good at it though, but I'm trying to also do a little bit on TikTok because I think that this is the Yannick generations, and on Sunday, Sunday, you know, those people will be at the at the age where they could come to me.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

So I'm trying to you you know just oh you're building the TikTok audience now, like in 10 years when they're the right age.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yeah, you have to start early, I guess. When you start early, you have a little bit of chance. And if if it if it just happened, then I kind of realize that oh shoot, there's no one on Instagram anymore that I would be in the diversified a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And then how when you're selling your your workshop spots, how are you doing it? You you don't do email marketing that much anymore, do you?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I I you know what I was so um I'm saying disappointed, but I this isn't the right right word to say, I guess. Um it's just with the low number of openings of those emails. I feel like um just spending so much time trying to, you know, put together a nice email, and and so little that there's such a small rate of openings of those emails. Uh I do have um a lot of emails stored at because I at some point I had this kind of like newsletter and uh and a lead map magnet over there. Uh and I stored the email address, but it wasn't working as well. And then um, and I feel like every time I do very well on Instagram or or on Facebook with like interesting reels and so and such, then I get uh a really nice uh response and I get a lot of questions about workshops. Um so yeah, so that's mostly organic. So I'm trying to uh create content on on Instagram and and Facebook that speaks to those people, and then um and then hope that they will uh find but you know, because I think workshops start getting I don't know, it's the this year or what, that it's trying starting to get more and more difficult. Not in every place is the same way. I don't know like why Netherlands is such a good country for me. Uh but they I have I just had a workshop with 10 people and then there are still people asking me, like, are you going back to Netherlands? I wanna I miss that one, I wanna come, and so on. And there are places like they're difficult to sell, like the south of Europe, like Valencia is in Valencia, but like I hope that I'm going there. Uh, because there are not so many good bookings. Uh so so it really depends. Like I can plan something, but what how if it's actually going to happen, that that we will see. Uh yeah, so I had Australia was always asking people with the by asking about Australia, and then I uh then you know I started gathering their um info, like the contact info. And once I had it, I just let's send them an email saying, like, hey, here it here it is, you can sign up, and then bum, everything was sold within a week. So it's really so

Value Ladder And Designing Experiences

SPEAKER_01 16:35

it's really weird, and this year it was a little more difficult. So I was thinking to kind of change this a little bit. Uh I know that you know from from everything that I sell, workshop is the top product, you know what I mean? Like if there is a certain like a um value ladder, okay. Yeah, you got the right thing.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

That's like a marketer term for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're learning marketing speak today.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Oh, great. That's what I need. So this is the the top, the top, top of the top, right? Because the most expensive thing that you can get from me, yeah. Um, and the most uh like sort of like valuable valuable at the same time. Um, but that's also for a very uh small uh group of people. Um and uh while I want to keep a product like like that, uh I'm thinking whether I should now kind of you know what I'm also thinking of. Sorry, I'm just kind of jumping from one thought to another. That this product might change a little bit because uh um, you know, I'm trying to what I'm trying to do right now is make people understand that I'm not selling and I'm I'm selling life uh knowledge, but don't focus on knowledge, focus on the experience. And I'm trying to get more focused on the experience and then the fact that I understand that most of the people love photography, but the problem is that they have to have don't have time for this. And I it's it's life, you know. They have kids, they they have to do their job, and in between it's very difficult for them to find the time to do what they love, and then you know, they can come to a workshop to redo what they love, and I'll let they can maybe doing some more like um just just people just places where we can meet and just take photos together, and I can organize everything for them so they they would get beautiful photos like what I do. Yeah, like if they like what I do, then I can they can I can give give them uh like donkeys, ducks, whatever children, spaces, advice if they need my advice and telling like hey look look at this from this uh angle, then you will see what would then display this thing will look beautiful. So and another thing that I'm also why I'm also thinking about, you know, just adding something like this, more like an experience thing, is the fact that you know, once this customer comes and does this workshop, uh there is very little I can offer next. Because then it's a lot so you know, so that those are because those are people that usually are kind of returning because they already had some of my uh like presets or some of my like overlides, those this this the smallest step. They already took that. Or sometimes they have a course in the middle and they will take this, and then um then I was thinking that at this point I kind of lose the client because they they already did the workshop. So, you know, where can you can do another one, but they won't because it's the same sort of like the same knowledge, they won't come to the same lecture again, they won't come to do the same stuff, and and that's why this winter I'm doing um experience for them. Uh so I'm trying to kind of like get I'm thinking about how to uh first of all like find those people and also how to keep those people, which is saying it's always a struggle. I'm not saying I'm doing things right, I'm just trying to give you my my ideas and uh about how I think about this job.

Workshops Versus Courses And Passive Products

SPEAKER_04 20:00

How much of the the revenue for you is your of your business is from the workshops and how much is from the the courses or the uh what did you say? You got overlays and presets, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, no, most of it is from from the workshops because this is I actually get most money there, and this is a very expensive. The rest I have to put a little more money into advertising. If I run a new product, then it's uh it sells well to this very um uh my like the the my uh best like my fans, best the best group of audience, and that sells very well. And then you know I just drops down and then I have to put more and more into advertising, and then I don't get I will get good revenue from uh from a course or something like a product one once it's uh once it's launches, and then it kind of fades away. But with workshops, it's it's continuous high revenue, um you know, with with from every workshop. But at the same time, I'm trying to kind of think that it's not whenever I do a workshop, I do a workshop and then it's it's done, right? There's when I do a course, when I record, when I got a product, I know that once I put it here, it can last for a long time. So overall I get more money from from workshops. So I would love to then to to continue, especially that this is also great for me, as you said. The photographer said that they you just want to go out and take photos, and this is how I do what I like. Because I love meeting those people and I love doing uh taking photos. Whereas when I'm doing like courses and stuff, it's nice. Uh it's it's just it's just then it's just a job. It doesn't uh you know do anything for me other than making money.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. If you could sell more of the courses to your existing audience, so you're making more money from it without having to do more work on it.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

That would be great.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

Assuming that would be cool, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:59

That would be cool. Yeah, the the problem with my courses, I'm very sorry to uh to interrupt you, but the problem with the courses that I do is just drives me nuts because they change the interface of the programs that I'm using for editing all the time. And once I uh record something, a few months something changed, and I think, oh, they added something, or they changed that. And used to there are things that used to be very difficult to do, but now we AI is just one click and so on. So it keeps changing, and those courses are the worst thing because then they are never sort of like and they're up to date, maybe for like a month or two, and then you know it's it's best thing for me right now. Where best thing for me, that was a very little revenue, but I had nothing. Once I once somebody buys those overlays, um, I really don't have to do anything. It's just like it just sells, and this is a really like a passive income then, rather than courses seem to be active over and over. Um, you know, because you when you say say something on a workshop, you can always say like whatever is up to date, but then of course you just record and then they think like, oh my god, I just recorded that three months ago, and I already had to update it. And that's off one when I don't have the time to update it. So uh if if Adobe could stop you know doing so many updates, that would

Fixing Low Email Open Rates

SPEAKER_01 23:20

be nice.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

Um what's the I'm really curious about this. Do you do you have any idea of why your email open rates were so I have no idea? I've been maybe like that's not normal. Like you've got a loyal fan base. If people got onto your email list, I would have expected them to be keen to open your. I I wonder, or my convinced with your maybe I'm using the wrong app or something.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

I don't know. Um I've been trying to find uh because then the the thing is that um I used to use one app, I used to use MailChain Boy, which was in my opinion very expensive at some point. I was like, I'm not sending that many emails to pay that much for that. And then I was trying to find something else that would not charge me for just having an audience, you know, just for actually sending emails rather than just you know what I mean, because they charge you depending on the amount of emails that you have. Um and then I found one app that only charges for the amount of sent emails, um, which was very good for me, because then you know sometimes I would not send emails for because I didn't have anything new, and um, and it would doesn't make sense to send emails to people in Denmark that I'm doing workshop in the USA, right? You know, so it has to be very specific. And sometimes and the audience in Denmark would be very small, like maybe I don't know, there'd be 50 emails on that list. So uh so then to keep um and pay for having a thousand, and then uh yeah, could I could send about sell about um I mean send emails about uh courses, but then those courses will you know launch maybe once a year. So, you know, just paying and I don't know, maybe just because I'm not using the right app, maybe that app just pay tends to go to spam and others don't. I don't know. I I my idea is that for some reason that those emails and end up in spam.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna connect you with Josep afterwards and see if he can help you figure out what's going on. Because I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. Email, in my experience, is normally about 80% of the potential revenue in a business that's selling like courses and digital products. So I'd even would be surprised if it wasn't incredibly valuable normally for workshops. That's why I do less stuff with in-person workshops. So if the email marketing isn't working, it probably suggests you're leaving a lot of the money that you've kind of built up as potential in your business in the just on the table, right? So you've got all its audience, you've got what 180,000 people on Facebook and 140,000 people on Instagram, and you've got 18,000 on YouTube, and all of this, and then you've got all these clusters and these presets and these workshops. So you've got the product and you've got the audience, and just the bit in the middle is how do you get the audience to buy the cost or to buy whatever you've got, right? And in my experience, nearly always, like 99% of the time, the best thing to do is is email marketing. And but if you're if something's broken in that process, then that means that you've got all this potential to make money, but you're you're not making as much as you could be. So what I'll do, I'll connect you with Yosef afterwards and I'll get him to kind of go back and forth with you and help you figure out what's going on and what how can how is this fixable? Because it does sound like something's something's gotten broken um in the process, and I suspect you could probably uh increase your revenue a lot by by fixing it.

Finding A Signature Photography Style

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Thank you. Yeah, that sounds good.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Yeah, no worries. Here to help. Uh talk me through how did you land on this just very distinctive look that you've got in your photography.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

It's a lot of experimenting at the beginning. I mean, if you if I look at the photos that I at the beginning, I would take out there were some very random photos. There were like random photos of cats and some birds and and some uh butterflies, and then I decided and I then I started taking photos of my kids, and I was really mostly interested in light and like how it could be captured. Well, you know, at the same time, you know, having the kids in there because then it would so on one hand I was interested in light, and I when I was when I was trying to take photos of random things, as I said, like birds and something, I didn't feel connected to those photos anyway. It didn't it didn't feel like you know they meant anything to me. But then I added the kids into the the the the game and then it started you know everything started being making sense for me. So I I had what I wanted, so I really wanted to capture how light kind of you know changes the where we see things, and at the same time I had my kids on on those photos, and then then it it just I could emotionally connect to to the to to that. So and also it was great because I felt like whenever I was doing that, um taking photos of my kids, um I could sort of um explain to others why I'm doing this uh without making it look weird. I'm kind of like also also kind of I'm I'm I kind of weirded out by people, like even if I'm trying to kind of record content and so on, I I always feel like people are looking at me and asking the question why, which probably they don't. Um, but I I always have to have an answer of like why I'm doing things. And I can always say, like, well, I'm doing business of my kids, where else I was actually doing something for myself, you know. This is like weird thing of of uh of us of of me uh thinking that I do not, I should not, like I should not do things for myself, I should do things for others, and and I felt like I'm I was doing what I should be doing, and then I started you know putting them online and trying to find like connect with other photographers, and at the time was on Flickr. Uh and I did find that audience, and I had you know uh people that uh were also interested in photography, and I felt like this sounds this is so good, because then you know I wasn't interested in taking photos for others, I was interested only taking photos for myself in that case. You know what I mean? Like a lot of people would think that this is the next step would be to uh start um because at the time I was I had a good job. I was an architect and I kind of like still am in a way, although I'm not working in that job anymore. It was I was a quite good paying job, so I didn't have I wasn't looking for a different job. And I also wasn't looking for a way um uh for uh like situations where I would have to do what other people were expect were expecting from me. I was trying to do what I wanted to do. Uh and I fell into the great, great spot where I could people started asking me, how do you do that? Like because I started connecting with other photographers on Twitter, people are asking me, oh how how do you take those photos? How do you edit those photos and stuff? And at the beginning, because I didn't have money for photography, is a very expensive thing. And of course I didn't have money to to um spend on photography, and I didn't want to spend like you know, go on my family budget to to take what to to spend on that. So I decided I'm gonna try to like I will and I one guy was asking, like, how do you do that? And then I said to him, Well, I can show you, but of course, uh, you know, he said, like, I can pay. And I said, like, oh, okay, well, in that case, we can talk. And then I did I had no idea how to how what to charge. I had absolutely no idea. And I remember that I gave him two prices, like one for before like uh you know, full explanation, and one would be just kind of like showing him basically the layers and everything. And I just remember showing that to my husband, you know, the the prices I uh I figured and he would be like, wow, that much. And I told him, like, well, hey, listen, so I don't have to do this. Like, if he wants me to do it, I will do it. But if he says no, it's not like my my like you know life depends on it. And I decided to go and it turned out to be actually quite good. And then you know, I started doing uh then next time I posted that photo, I was like, Hey, you want to like do a commentoring session with me? You know, just give me a call. And then you know, I started doing that more and more and more of that, and people usually people from the US and or people from like sometimes Australia, so that would end up me having to either go to bed at uh midnight whilst I still had a day job and I still had little kids, uh, because they were because of the time difference, or sometimes get up very early in the morning to do something with people from Australia. But you know, I did me making some money, I could buy a new lens, and I was happy. And then uh and I was always people were asking, like, do you do workshops? And I had never been in a workshop myself. Uh so I was thinking, like, well, I could guess, I I could I guess I could do this, but like I didn't know how. And on some point, you know, just there was a studio in Warsaw that they they said, like, hey, we're looking for somebody to that can run a children's photography workshop. And I said, like, um, okay, I'm I'm going to do this. But it was a terrible workshop. I'm um, I mean, it was it was me trying to figure out how to do that. Uh, and it turned out a lot of things that don't really work, but you know, still a lot of people came. And the time that I think it came from my audience, so I didn't really need that studio in workshop, but I just needed some confidence that I could actually do it and and sell it. And um, yeah, at some point the git became so intense that I had to say goodbye to my my job, uh, which I'm very happy about. And I don't really don't want to go back to architecture at this point, uh, because that gives me that uh that freedom of of doing things what I want and doing something that I love and traveling and so on. Uh,

Turning A Hobby Into A Business

SPEAKER_01 33:15

but yeah, so that's that's how it basically all became. And at some point I was doing the workshops only, and people were saying that oh, you should do you should record some because there you know there are people that would love to come to workshop, but it's sometimes you know they it's not where they are, or uh that that that particular weekend doesn't work for them, and they definitely would like to see that. Uh and I started doing some tutorials, which was fine, and then um then COVID came. And on COVID, we decided to that they couldn't do any workshops. And me and my husband, we just figured that we're gonna record something like a workshop instead of selling that online, and that kind of worked well. Uh, I think that we we I saw a lot of that at the beginning of the launch, it was really good money. Um, and uh, but it was only on the at lunch, and no, it's still there, it's still there. The problem is it's still there, and I have to update that. And I updated that, I think last year I still have to update uh the beginning, sort of the theory. Um, that's the thing with courses, I have to update them. Um, or I have to launch a new one. And I always think like whether I should update the existing one or launch a new one. And then another thing came. And if I can continue uh my rant about what I did so far, another thing that um expect photography, which is like a another um organization, came and asked me, like, would hey, do you want to do an ebook with us? And I did an e-book with them, which was very good, was very professionally um, everything was very professionally arranged arranged and everything. They paid me for were for doing the um uh they paid me for doing the the um the book and now I get like an affiliate program with them where I just I can make some like partial uh part of the sales um and they are doing most of the sales. But people ask me, like, oh that's so I people uh tell me that oh I bought this from you, and I said, like, no, no, you bought it from expert photography. And they're surprised when I say, like, if you bought it from expert photography, I'm actually not making money on that on it, and people say, Oh, that's so unfair. But uh I'm usually saying to people like, hey, they really advertise it a lot, and people, a lot of people that will come to my workshops, I ask them, hey, where do you know me from? Like, and they a lot of people will say, like, oh, I saw this ad on uh from expert photography because they're running ads on this. So people get to know me because some because another like an ebook I did with a completely other uh group of people. Uh so I find that those cooperations really good for uh for running your business. So it's on some point you on sometimes you do things on your own that you will make the full income, but doing sometimes some cooperations where you know that you're not going to immediately get a good income, but at the same time you're

Goals And Sustainable Growth Without Hiring

SPEAKER_01 36:00

just warming your audience. I feel like that would really work well for me.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Interesting. What's the goal for you? Where do you want to be with the business?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

I I think where I am where I am. I'm really good where I am. And so you know what what I love to do more workshops, like keep on doing what I'm doing right now because this is like this is the best thing. Of course, sometimes, you know, just going away, leaving my family for for that weekend and missing sometimes some some stuff that's going on at home. It's sad, but at the same time, I I feel like so free and so you know amazing doing the workshops, and I love to meet those people. And so I would love to in the future, I I would love if it continued. I mean love if people were signing up for the workshop. So um, so selling selling workshops would be my I would, you know, was my my dream just to kind of put a workshop like announcement and have people sign up just immediately. That would be my dream rather than you know struggling sometimes to waiting for people to sign up before I can actually confirm with with you know the different things like different with the host or flights and everything. Uh sometimes I'm waiting for until like last week and people sign up last week and then I have to buy a ticket last last week and and confirm with models and everything, which drives me nuts. But uh yeah, so my goal would be to continue what I'm doing, do what I'm doing and and get you know people interested. I guess like I I know that I have potential. Sometimes I feel like okay, there's potential, I have a lot of potential, definitely. I feel like I'm not using my full potential. I do agree with that. I'm not using that to the full extent. But sometimes I feel like oh my god, I'm just one person. Like, how how much can I do in the time that I have uh because I'm working on weekends and I'm coming back home doing all the content uh and also doing the um editing my photos and doing all that. Uh and I sometimes think I should hire buddy uh someone, but then I think that no, I will not do that. I think I have a I have a little bit of like a bad experience with that because my parents used to run a uh their own company, they would hire people, and you know, I grew up with them, you know, talking about how how they probably sometimes they would only have to work just in order just to give uh give them their salaries. And I thought like, no, it's if I'm working, I'm working. If I'm not working, I'm I'm the only one to that will suffer from that. I cannot really but I'm open to cooperation. So if if I can get somebody like some like you know, somebody else, like you said, like you know, um you will connect with someone that will help me with with my emails, then that that I will laugh because that just like a part, like it's not uh permanent thing. It's just it's just when co it when you're working with specialists to give you um their advice and and sometimes help you around. I just I started working with one person that I do um that was kind of helping me around recently to maybe refresh my social media and I really like that cooperation so far. So we are working on some new content, we are working on a new lead magnet, which may also be good, very good for that uh email thing because I I used to have an an uh older lead magnet that was just as I said, like things uh this things need to be updated, and I was really out of date, and I decided to get rid of that, and I'm doing a new ebook, uh like a free free like a PDF ebook right now, which takes me out of time more than I thought. I thought it would be very easy and quick to do, and then I'm just kind of stuck on the one python. Uh, but I'm trying to do another thing like that. So I feel like yes, I for if I can give any advice to anybody, just you know, cooperate with others, whether that's uh whether that's them kind of like talking about your company, talking about your courses, because they are because they they will only talk if they actually make money on this, otherwise the people would not spread around your name. And the other thing is working with specialists to get to help you around because I you as you uh as I may be good in photography, I don't never felt good in marketing. And I always and I there's a lot to learn, and sometimes I just don't want to learn, I just want somebody to tell me what to do, and so I can continue doing what I like and uh and yeah, get someone to yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

And uh I think you're not on your own, like so many people who uh I've I've helped with their email marketing and funnels, so many of the people who've been on the podcast, they're an expert, they've done a lot, they're an expert in a topic, you know, whether it's photography or piano or parenting or whatever it is, and then they've become an expert in growing an audience, and they've grown a big audience, and then they've become an expert in making a course and making courses, and it's just like they're not got not everyone's got it in them to then also become an expert in marketing as well for it, which is why you know, uh why I'd set up a uh business helping people with that as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Well, you definitely learn a lot on the way, you know, even if sometimes figuring out things like that. I would never know those names, like leave my never no idea, and I've never had an idea if I work where I work before, if I didn't do all the stuff that I did so far, I had no idea what that is, what that even is, like what's what's what that even means. So definitely learn a lot on the way, but you know, it as you might know, you know, even in your own field, things change so fast and new technologies and people start people also react to advertising different ways because you know they get accustomed to one thing and then you have to come up with another thing to get them more involved and so on, so on. So it's it's it's it's constant. Even if you learned 10 years ago, it's not going to apply right now. I think so. At least at that time photography, we change, we change so so quickly. And I we uh we as like as as uh educators, we have to keep up with this to be sort of like um so we're not following, we are leading, so we have to be in front of everybody else and keep a keep keep an eye on what's changing in the world. Uh as I I uh I think that even if I for example, if I was doing something that worked for me um a couple of years ago, when it comes to selling workshops, that thing doesn't work anymore. You keep you seeing the decline in things, like uh you know what I mean. Like I I was doing I I could only do um organic reach for some time. And it seems like this year, well, I have to do more. I have to do more,

Where To Follow Ivona

SPEAKER_01 42:55

I have to do something else.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Interesting. Ivona, this has been great hearing all about your business and your journey. If people want to go check out your website or your Instagram, where should they go?

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Uh so my website is uh my name. This is very difficult to spell, so it's best to just go to ivonapodlashinska.com or just type Ivana and Podlashniska on uh on Instagram anywhere because I'm always I use my name, like my my original birth name, it's my husband's name, but my name for everything. So uh Ivonapodlashinska anywhere.com on on my website. Which I abandoned a little.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Oh no. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

No, I just don't have the time to record those videos. I take so much time. And yeah, I I I know that it's it's it's really good, and I would love to be uh I would love to the run the day to have more hours than 24 uh for me to to do. Um yeah, so if you want to check out, uh um yeah, sign in, sign in, follow me. I do, I think that a lot of people would just enjoy sometimes just looking on nice photos. You don't have to be interested in photography to enjoy nice photos.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Beautiful. They're totally worth checking out. Um, thanks so much for coming on today. I really appreciate your time. Um great hearing your story. Yeah, very welcome. As always, everyone, thanks so much for your time listening, and we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Bye.