Ep 94 - Can Co-Ownership Solve the Housing Crisis? w/ Parimal Gosai | Broker's Playbook

In this episode of Broker’s Playbook, we dive deep into an innovative solution for Toronto’s housing crisis: co-ownership. With real estate prices soaring and affordability slipping away, Housemates founder Parimal Gosai shares a groundbreaking model that’s empowering Canadians to build equity, share resources, and redefine homeownership. Learn how co-ownership works, the technology behind Housemates, and its potential impact on Canada’s real estate landscape.

From navigating the challenges of entering debt with a partner to creating micro-communities and securing long-term housing, Parimal explains why co-ownership might be the game-changer for future generations. Watch now to explore how co-ownership can offer hope to young Canadians priced out of the traditional housing market and why it might be a key tool in addressing the broader housing crisis.

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Transcript

Bobby Puim: In a city of 7 million people. Studies have shown that approximately 48% of Toronto households are renters. 1 in 3 of Toronto's homeowner and renter households have experienced affordability issues, and it is estimated that for every new affordable unit built in Toronto, that 15 existing private affordable units are lost. For many in our country's largest city, homeownership is a dream unlikely to be realized until maybe today. A new technology is emerging that is taking a not so new idea and breathing new life into affordability for Torontonians and for some people who have used this co-ownership model, escaping the insecurities of rising rents, constantly uprooting their lives and building equity in their real estate future has become a reality. Today on The Broker's Playbook podcast, we speak with Kamal Gosai of Husemates, a co-ownership platform that is changing the definition of what affordable housing is in Toronto. The application of their technology nationwide and perhaps globally. And what all of this means for the real estate industry. Who knows, perhaps a solution to the housing crisis has been a dating app the whole time. Let's find out. Hey. Guys, welcome back once again to the Brokers Playbook podcast. My name is Bobby Fiume, and today we've got Palmer. Did I say it right? You did go Go-sai. I know I said that one right? Go-sai of Husemates. Yes. In with us today. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm super excited about this conversation. It is going to bring a super enlightened view of what real estate can, and perhaps should be in the future to our listenership. Like, I've been excited about this one for months.

Parimal Gosai: Oh my God, that's so generous and lovely of you to say so. Thank you and thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobby Puim: This is amazing. We're going to get started with you. I need to know more about you. I need our listenership, the Broker's Playbook Nation to understand more about who you are. Okay? Okay. Yeah. When did you start in real estate?

Parimal Gosai: I started in real estate when I was 24 years old, and I actually started in new construction.

Bobby Puim: So two years ago. And for anybody watching this on YouTube.

Parimal Gosai: Yes, two years.

Bobby Puim: Two years ago.

Parimal Gosai: Yeah. Um, but anyone who's not I am 43 now, so I've been at it for a while. Yeah. Um, and I started in new construction because my friend's aunt worked in it and she was whatever. That's how I got into it. And it was great because as a student, um, they were paying really well, and I could show up pretty hungover on the weekends at the condo sales centers and, like, sell some real estate, you know, and then, like, do it for 4 or 5 hours and go home.

Bobby Puim: So always in the GTA.

Parimal Gosai: Always in the GTA, always downtown. I mean, some of the great condo sites, like early condo sites that were coming out about 20 years ago, like all of the Queen West development, I sold 85% of the Bohemian embassy. Like that was my first.

Bobby Puim: That was the first I was about to ask.

Parimal Gosai: Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah.

Bobby Puim: Very cool. Uh, transitioned out of new construction, pre-construction when.

Parimal Gosai: I transitioned out of, um, new construction, kind of while I was still in it a little bit, I started doing some resale. I got my license, and I continued to work kind of in real estate adjacent industries. I come from an interior design and architecture background. That's kind of like where my education is at. But when we came out of school, I didn't want to work in the typical design world. I wanted to use my design services and my kind of knowledge to service a community that may not have access to design services or architecture services. And so we we, a group of me and my friends started an organization called Public Displays of Affection. And essentially what we did is offer design and art curation services for social housing projects that were being built at that time. And while I sold expensive condos on the weekend, my day job at the time was to try and create community around design, to offer services to those projects that may not have as much resources. And I think at the height of that organization. We had three of the city's largest social housing projects under our belt, and we were working with all three of them.

Bobby Puim: That's incredible.

Parimal Gosai: Yeah. And that I would have to say, Bobby, that really started to shape my, um, kind of psyche around housing security. Right. And what that truly means and how I can continue to build my career around that.

Bobby Puim: Which leads perfectly to the next question that I have for you is, is we need for the broker's playbook nation. I actually believe that this is more of an everybody cause. Okay. So forget brokers playbook nation, let's speak to Canada as a whole. Okay. About the genesis of Husemates. Okay. Why did it start? What is it for everybody? First of all, why did it start? Was it then the next natural, most natural evolution to what you were doing in the moment? And then we're going to work through soup to nuts. Everything that people need to know about Husemates today.

Parimal Gosai: Okay, great. Um. I'm gonna. So PDA was great. I was doing that. I was still selling real estate on the side. Yeah. Being able to sell real estate and do PDA allowed me to kind of fund my kind of social justice housing mindset. Um, but we were never able to turn PDA into a profitable business. But what it gave me as a realtor who, you know, at the age of like 27, was making great coin, right? Like you're like, wow, I just did $120,000 worth of business commissions. That's pretty great for a young 27 year old, like 20 years ago. Um, and I was like, okay, there has to be more to this. Like, there has to be more to why I'm in real estate and why I'm drawn to it. Um, developers typically have a lot of say in the GTA, right? And in most urban centers in North America. Absolutely. And how we build projects and how we engage with the next generation who's going to be able to afford is largely dependent on development. Um, and so I always found myself at a little bit of a loss of like, how do I access that market? How do I create a space through real estate sales for the people that were going to constantly be left out and continue to be left out of, of that world? Um, and it's that's just kind of like the truth, right? Like it's not about good or bad or anything like that.

Bobby Puim: I think we were saying that before. It isn't good. It isn't bad. It is factual. It is just the truth.

Parimal Gosai: Exactly. Um, so as I started to watch, like, you know, my generation start to get left out of housing, true housing access and true housing security, it really started to be like, okay, like I, I have to do something about it, but I didn't know what. And for several years I just kind of sat on it. I didn't I didn't really know what I was doing. Um, and I also helped my sister build her law firm during those several years because she got pregnant and she was like, I need your help. I was like, okay, cool. Like, I'll take a break from real estate and like, really double down. On helping you build your firm. In 2018. Um, I met Leslie Gainer, and Leslie Gainer left her career, her kind of final career in housing policy to get into real estate for the sole purpose of helping people co-own real estate. And it wasn't only about affordability, it was about trying to create a different type of life and how housing a house, the physical structure can actually help you enhance your life in many ways. And that's really the thesis and the genesis of what Husemates is today. Right? Like, it's not really about just affordability. It's also about building your own micro community. It's also about putting control of that kind of 120 by 19 foot lot that you own in the city, but putting you and maybe two other friends in control of that piece of land, and that for us is endless, right? Like the the possibilities of what you can do with that once you co-own it, are truly endless and will become more and more interesting as as we build the future.

Bobby Puim: Talk to me a little bit about Leslie and your partnership together before we dive into co-ownership and Husemates as a whole. Totally.

Parimal Gosai: So, Leslie. Um, uh, Leslie owned Mitzi's sister and Mitzi's for a long time. So that was, you know, she ran restaurants for a long time and then also worked in housing policy. So I knew of Leslie when I was a young queer kid in the city being like, oh my God, Cute old lesbian running a cute little shop in Romsey. Like. And the pancakes were killer, you know. Like, we were like, oh, my God. Mitzy's pancakes was always the hangover staple. Um, but I ran into her because I did a deal with her in 2018. I had a listing and she came in with an offer, and almost immediately we were like, a little bit in love with each other because we're both queer folks operating with, like, a social justice mindset in a real estate world, which can feel really isolating and full of characters that are maybe not, um, wanting to act with authenticity or transparency. And so we immediately connected and we were like, okay, like, you're cool. I'm cool. Like, we should talk. I'm really curious about what you're doing in the co-ownership space. And she told me her whole story. She actually co-owned with three women when she was 25, I think 26, 25, and as a single mom. And, uh, that always stuck with her. And she knew somehow she would get back to it. So we started building from that point onwards.

Bobby Puim: It's incredible.

Parimal Gosai: Thanks.

Bobby Puim: After the break, we're going to talk a little bit more about what house mates is. Okay. Okay. Uh, co-ownership for those people that don't know. Okay. Okay. And we're going to dive deep into this mission because it's something that the playbook community believes in as well. Cool.

Bobby Puim: Welcome back. We're going to dive right into house mates. Okay. I see it as two components. You tell me where I'm wrong. Okay. I see it very much as a co-ownership model that needs definition for our viewership, 100%. I also see it as a technology, though that is empowering the ability to consume a different real estate in a different way in this co-ownership model. So let's start with co-ownership. Define it for everybody listening today.

Parimal Gosai: Okay, so Husemates defines co-ownership as co owning an asset that is non chondoist and you and for the most part in our business. What that means is non condos and multiplexes. Right. Okay. And that's how we're defining co-ownership at this stage in our growth. Sure. Um if you fast forward 20 years from now co-ownership could include any non condo ized asset right. Or any non kind of fractionalized asset. Take an asset fractionalize it share it out. That's sort of where I think the future is headed.

Bobby Puim: We'll get to that part yet. Now, now tell me where Husemates comes in.

Parimal Gosai: Okay, so Husemates, I told you before we started out just doing deals between people who already know each other, right? And which is predominantly still our business. People who know each other heard about Husemates and they're like, hey Bobby, we should go talk to Leslie and Kamal and see if we can own a house together, because we're both kind of struggling with the housing market. Great. You come to us and what we do is we take you through a pretty intense consultation and, um, sort of pre vetting process. And in that process we talk to you and gauge really if you were the right kind of person to co-own a multiplex in downtown Toronto. And usually it's a consultation, consultation process that goes from, I don't know, two sessions anywhere up to like ten sessions right before we even show you a property. That process gets you in front of a qualifying mortgage broker, making sure that all your kind of financial ducks are in a row, um, making sure that you understand that you're not just buying a house together, but that you're actually getting into debt with another person.

Bobby Puim: So it sounds very much as though it's it's, um, uh, relevant and common, right? Real estate pre work to a transaction with the added benefit of being able to then work with more people to afford more. Do I have it correct.

Parimal Gosai: Exactly, exactly. And we do that. It's like boots to the ground. We would show up and drink tea and coffee at your house however many times you want, you know, even if it's just an idea in your head, it doesn't have to be fully resolved. We will come to you and we will do the whole process, and we will do our song and dance, and we will show you all the success stories and the reasons why, uh, this could be beneficial for so many reasons.

Bobby Puim: It's interesting you mentioned the the why this can be beneficial. Right? There must be a lot of fear that goes into embarking upon something of this nature. I think you said this to me off. Off recording, right? But how did you put it? Um, getting into debt with someone else in mind.

Parimal Gosai: Is so scary. Yeah, right. And I think.

Bobby Puim: Getting into debt on your own.

Parimal Gosai: Yeah. Getting into. Exactly. And it's. And we kind of there's enough statistics around to know that buying a house is one of the most stressful things in the world for anyone, even if it's your first condo. Um, you're getting into debt, right? And we, uh, depending on what your kind of, like socioeconomic background is and what your comfort level is around debt, it's not a pleasant thing for most people, right? Um. If you. So we try and bring people together to get over those hurdles. Right? Like, okay, what does it mean to get into debt with someone? But the most important question, the number one question we get asked all the time is how do I get out, right? That's what everyone's truly concerned about. How do I get out of an arrangement that could go sour? Right? So part of the work that Leslie and I do is we talk about we call them the four D's, right? We call them death, divorce, um, disability and, uh, disaster. No. Well, yes, it could be. I think it's disposition. Right. Like disposing of your asset. So those are the critical things that you have to actually address head on, right? Um, we use legal mechanics tools, like a tsunami clause. Right. What is a tsunami clause? Um, do can we get you in here? But if something disastrous does happen, what are the stopgaps legal stopgaps that we put in place for the entire co-ownership arrangement to ensure that no one is in the vulnerable position at the time of disposition. Right. And that is really hard work at this stage at the genesis of what co-ownership could be. It's hard work. But when I think about this and I think about ten years from now, I'm like, well, it's just going to be normal, right? Like it's just nobody thought you could live in a 400 square foot box in the sky, right? 30 years ago. And for that to be just like the normal thing you do.

Bobby Puim: My parents still don't think that they can.

Parimal Gosai: There you go. Right.

Bobby Puim: So there we go.

Parimal Gosai: Yeah. Um, nobody thought we'd have a computer in our pockets, right? So I just I think co-ownership has a very important role to play.

Bobby Puim: I also think that it's solving a huge problem, at least a component of what this huge problem is. You also mentioned to me earlier today that there is no one silver bullet to solve the housing crisis. No. In this country, in this city, in this province, in this world. No, But. And there's a big but here in my mind at least, I think that what you guys are doing can have a significant impact on getting people into a position to be able to actually then earn equity. What was the statistic you shared with me off camera earlier about how homeownership can be the number one differentiator in your financial future?

Parimal Gosai: Yes, for most people, and I'm going to get into senior care for a minute as well. But for most people, that is the asset that they rely on for their retirement, right? For the majority of people, home ownership is going to be the thing that gets them enough wealth at the end of their lives that they could survive off of. That dream is become like almost diminished, for I think, the tune of something like 12 million young Canadians right now between the ages of 25 and 44, and we haven't even touched the 15 year olds at this stage.

Bobby Puim: That was the number you gave me before. It's wild to me. 12 million Canadians. How many Canadians are there total? 42 million.

Parimal Gosai: Exactly right. So I think it's like 1 in 4 if I've got my ratios correct or something. Close enough. Yeah. Yeah. So and if you just look just at GTA, um, the income, the price has gone up on average something like $470,000 in, uh, ten years. And then Canada wide, that's $270,000 over ten years. That's wild. And if you ask anyone whether their incomes have gone up in relation to that, the answer is no. It's a very clear no. So it's like, how are you going to sustain this. Right. So that's one problem that we think we can solve through co-ownership is guys you're young. Um, you can take a risk on a new idea. You can be creative. Let's get you into home ownership, into these small multiplexes or whatever, and do it together, you know. And it doesn't have to be forever. Do it for ten years and then move on. Um, the other problem that we're really trying to solve with co-ownership is seniors. We have what they call a grey tsunami coming towards us. And we actually don't know how we're going to be dealing with all these 60 and 75 year olds that are going into the retirement over the next 15 to 20 years. And that is going to really encumber our social services in a big way. And in order to solve that, I actually think co-ownership can play a big role. If you had a house that is over. Um, a single senior that is over, housed in their suburban home.

Parimal Gosai: Let's say the rules now allow you the kind of Ontario building code rules now allow you to build up to four units without going to Committee of adjustment on that plot of land. Why would you not consider that and sell off portions of your home to younger generations that can't afford a big house like yours, but then can also offer you some support, right? That's not like they're not going to come and feed you every day. But if they haven't heard from you for two days, maybe they'll check up on you, right? Maybe they'll help shovel your driveway. Um, those are the kinds of things that we're looking at and how co-ownership will try to resolve some issues. There's a really interesting thing in rental housing that's happening right now. They're called Norcs. Norcs. Um, and they're, uh, non-organized retirement communities. And so they're they're happening all over the place. Right. So they were never intended to be, uh, A retirement communities, but large swaths of apartment buildings are turning into these because they don't want to go into senior care. So, for instance, one of the things will be Judy has to go in and check on everyone on the floor once a week to make sure that they're okay. You know, there's a heat wave in the city. We want to make sure everyone's cool. So it's Bobby's job to check in on apartment 92. Right.

Bobby Puim: That's amazing.

Parimal Gosai: It's really cool. Yeah.

Bobby Puim: Building community where community didn't exist. Exactly. It's wild. So we're going to take a quick break. And after the break, we're going to come back and talk to you more about how technology is empowering this entire thing. Cool. Stay tuned.

Bobby Puim: Welcome back.

Parimal Gosai: Thank you. All right.

Bobby Puim: We're going to talk a little bit more about. I have to read from my card in this instance. Go for it. I'm not the host that Simeon is. Right. But I want to talk to you about how the technology that you're building allows for you to better connect everybody that's going to work with Husemates.

Parimal Gosai: Okay. So the technology we're building right now is essentially acts as a matching platform. That's the sort of starting point of what I believe the technology really could be. Um, we have two components, the matching platform and a fractional listing platform. Right. The matching platform you go on, it kind of works like Hinge or Bumble, where, um, Bobby's profile looks great. He's got about $20,000. I've got about $30,000. Jointly, we've got 50. He can afford a $2,000 mortgage. He looks cool. I'm going to match him. You're going to get a notification that I matched you, and then you're going to check me out, and you're going to say, oh, I matched too. What? That does a match for a match opens up a chat. So then we can start chatting and what what my company does in the background and we use AI to do this is slowly guide your conversation right in in the private chat box. And we say to you, hey, are you ready to meet our Husemate's helper? Are you ready to meet our kind of co-ownership concierge? What can we do to help you kind of go along this path better, right? That's one component that we do. The other piece of our technology right now allows you to upload a fractional listing. I've got a house in Mississauga. Um, my husband just passed away. I'm 65. I'd like to attract a co-owner to come and purchase a portion of my house. Um, and you know what? I've got a great apartment. Or I've got the ability to build a great apartment in my house. Let me attract the right co-owner that can support my lifestyle as I enter into my golden years. Um, or I'm an investor And I own a multiplex downtown and I love owning my multiplex, but I need to free up some equity, right? So I'm going to sell apartment A from one, two three Shaw Street, and I'm going to sell apartment B from 223 Crawford Street. And that kind of gets me feeling really good for the next little while, and I can redirect some of my investments.

Bobby Puim: What an interesting happenstance. Um, and I know this because we've been talking for, for the lead up to the, to the podcast here, but you're you're an agent. Yes. Okay. Which, I mean, is baffling to me because we don't talk like that when we're when we're together. Right? I'm also an agent. I never talk about real estate in the transactional sense. Yeah. Okay. Um, but I do invest. I invest a lot. Right. And I know that a lot of our viewership also invests a lot in real estate. Yes. And this. We were talking about it earlier. The open market itself will sort of dictate where things go and why. It's what I like about economics as a whole. Tell everybody, look right into the camera over here and tell everybody how many co-ownership deals you've done.

Parimal Gosai: So we've transacted just over $100 million worth of co-owned real estate since 2018, which puts 64 transactions in our pocket. And it equates to about 180 people right now across the GTA living in co-ownership arrangements.

Bobby Puim: And the reason I bring that up is that when the market dictates that something is good and valuable, numbers like that appear. Yeah. Exactly right.

Parimal Gosai: You know, we are a startup. Postmates is a startup. So we're doing the rounds and we're pitching and we're looking for partnerships and investors. And so it's been that those numbers have really stopped people in their tracks.

Bobby Puim: That's incredible. I couldn't be more impressed with what it is. Thank you. We are going to move to our extended version of the podcast in a moment. Okay. That's for anybody in the broker's playbook community. If you're not part of the community, join to continue the conversation. But I want you to leave everybody that's listening on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts today with with your take on solving this component of affordability for people in Canada. Right. What can they be doing to get more involved, considering more literally anything that you would want to leave the general public with today in order to see that co-ownership can, in fact be a tool to use in the fight against affordability in Canada.

Parimal Gosai: Thank you. I would say first and foremost, download the app and sign up for it. It's available on Google Play, Apple, the Apple Store. So just check it out, take it out for a whirl and see what it feels like. Um, second, I would say come to our events and sign up to our newsletters. We have a monthly event every third Tuesday. It's like religious for us. We have great speakers, you know, topics like should I condos, should I not condos. Amazing architects who've like been in this space and understand how to do this stuff. Um, and then the third thing I would just say is drop us a line and say hello, like. Do a little husemates chat, introduction like Leslie and I, or get those little chat calendly. Bookings and we jump on like we will talk to you. We will explain to you in person. Um, so yeah, we're there for you. Stay connected to us.

Bobby Puim: Once again, creating a community where? Community didn't exist before 100%. I love it for all of those that are still watching. We'll see you more in the extended version of the podcast in the community. For everybody else, thanks again for watching and thank you for coming on today. You're very.

Parimal Gosai: Welcome.