Thriving After Trauma
Hosted by Trauma Transformation & Energy Coach, Jaci Rogash, Thriving After Trauma is a podcast about real life stories of transformation, navigating life and being able to show up in the world as your unapologetic self. We’ll talk about the ups, the downs, the ugly truths and the magical moments that we all experience, but often feel we can’t share, so we can bring to life the importance of having meaningful conversations and embracing our own journey in this crazy thing we call life.
Thriving After Trauma
Pania Langly: Rewriting the cards she was dealt
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In this incredible episode I am interviewing the incredible Pania Langley.
Pania joined me to share her story of how her upbringing shaped her earlier life and decisions, how she became addicted to drugs - but created a story to feel ‘better than others’ - and what the turning moment for her was that led to her changing her life.
Pania Langley is a life coach, energetic healer, and the founder of Brave Spaces, where she supports women in coming back home to themselves.
Her work was born from lived experience, overcoming addiction, toxic relationships, and rebuilding her life from the ground up after six years as a prison wife.
Now, she helps women declutter their lives, mentally, physically, and energetically, so they can reconnect with who they are and actually start living in alignment with it.
There is a little trigger warning as we talk about addiction and drugs.
This was a brilliant chat with lots of laughs - and a little computer glitch in the middle.
Connect with Pania
Website: www.bravespaces.au
All socials: @pania.langley
Connect with me:
Transcript
00:00:00 Jaci Rogash
In this incredible episode, I got to sit down and interview the wonderful Pania Langley.
00:00:05 Jaci Rogash
Pania joined me to share her story of how her upbringing shaped her earlier life and decisions, how she became addicted to drugs, but created a story to feel better than others, and what the turning moment was for her that led to her changing her life.
00:00:19 Jaci Rogash
Pania is a life coach, energetic healer, and the founder of Brave Spaces, where she supports women in coming home to themselves.
00:00:27 Jaci Rogash
Her work was born from lived experience, overcoming addiction, toxic relationships and rebuilding her life from the ground up after six years as a prison wife.
00:00:37 Jaci Rogash
Now she helps women declutter their lives mentally, physically and energetically so they can reconnect with who they are and actually start living in alignment with it.
00:00:47 Jaci Rogash
There is a little trigger warning with this episode as we do talk about addiction and drugs, but I know that this is a conversation that so many people
00:00:56 Jaci Rogash
need to hear and you'll get so much out of it.
00:01:00 Jaci Rogash
This really was a brilliant chat with lots of laughs and a little computer glitch in the middle.
00:01:07 Jaci Rogash
Welcome to Thriving After Trauma, a podcast to help you move beyond surviving and support you to truly thrive in every area of your life.
00:01:15 Jaci Rogash
Sometimes it's scary to claim your big desires because of your past.
00:01:19 Jaci Rogash
This podcast will give you the courage to put yourself first and make your dreams a priority.
00:01:24 Jaci Rogash
I'm Jackie, an award-winning trauma transformation coach, breathwork facilitator, and international speaker.
00:01:30 Jaci Rogash
I am so excited to bring you these deep, honest, and real conversations as a way of supporting you to truly thrive after trauma.
00:01:38 Jaci Rogash
Hello, Pania.
00:01:40 Jaci Rogash
How are you?
00:01:41 Pania
Fabulous.
00:01:43 Jaci Rogash
Thank you so much for joining me.
00:01:46 Pania
Of course.
00:01:48 Jaci Rogash
I am so excited to have this conversation and I loved
00:01:53 Jaci Rogash
Before we jumped in how you were like, you know, it's kind of really ironic that, you know, the ex-cop and the ex-crim having a conversation.
00:02:03 Pania
Turned life coach.
00:02:05 Pania
I mean.
00:02:06 Jaci Rogash
For both, like what?
00:02:08 Pania
Yeah.
00:02:08 Jaci Rogash
Full circle.
00:02:09 Jaci Rogash
But also, I feel like this is just a true testament to humanity.
00:02:15 Jaci Rogash
Like when you see people as opposed to titles, you know, it just doesn't matter.
00:02:21 Pania
Yeah.
00:02:23 Pania
100%.
00:02:23 Jaci Rogash
So to kick this off, because this is about you, and I am so here for that.
00:02:29 Jaci Rogash
As is often the case, our work, especially when we lead into coaching, is born from our lived experiences and what we've lived through.
00:02:41 Jaci Rogash
For you, overcoming addiction, toxic relationships, rebuilding your life from the ground up after six years as a prison wife,
00:02:49 Jaci Rogash
I would love for you to share more.
00:02:52 Jaci Rogash
Tell us about your journey.
00:02:55 Pania
Yeah, I think when I hear those words, it feels like a whole different person now.
00:03:03 Pania
I have to really tap in to who that person really was and how she was experiencing those things.
00:03:11 Pania
But yeah, who I am now and the work that I do was really born from
00:03:18 Pania
my own healing journey and living through those experiences was so intense.
00:03:25 Pania
Like it started to really get to a boiling point for me where it was taking a toll on me and I was either questioning whether I was going to choose life or death and maybe not necessarily in a physical sense, but
00:03:44 Pania
even just even a soul death, I was starting to lose who I truly was.
00:03:49 Pania
And, you know, I sourced help from counselors and psychologists and drug and alcohol support, but it just wasn't working for me.
00:04:02 Pania
So I decided to, like, try the alternative methods.
00:04:07 Pania
And I started with
00:04:10 Pania
hypnotherapy, I feel like that's really old one as well, like the work, hypnotherapy, breath work and spiritual soul readings.
00:04:20 Pania
And for the first time, I think I started to really notice a difference in my nervous system.
00:04:27 Pania
And like I knew the value of personal development and
00:04:32 Pania
and mindset work, which is what actually led me to study and become a life coach.
00:04:38 Pania
But I also knew that combining this wellness and spiritual practices and with mindset work, like this could be the ultimate empowerment practice for people.
00:04:55 Pania
And that's exactly what I'm doing now.
00:04:58 Pania
Like I'm supporting women
00:05:01 Pania
through my program of like really coming home to themselves.
00:05:05 Pania
And yeah, I love just that was who I-- that whole story of addiction and toxic relationships and navigating life as a prison wife, that led to my purpose and my power.
00:05:19 Pania
So that's how I'm here and I love it.
00:05:23 Jaci Rogash
I love that.
00:05:25 Jaci Rogash
If we can-- because we have so much to talk about, so much to talk about.
00:05:32 Jaci Rogash
If we can go back to, younger life, I guess, was there a defining moment or a tipping moment where that kind of led you down that path of?
00:05:49 Pania
I think that, and I always have a heavy heart when I say this, but I feel like I was modeled
00:05:59 Pania
that kind of behavior, unfortunately.
00:06:03 Pania
And I'm grateful for my parents, and they did the best that they could at that time.
00:06:10 Pania
But it was really-- excuse me-- modeled to me.
00:06:14 Pania
So the way that I responded to tough situations or difficult situations, the way that I approached relationships and love, that was, in an essence, from how
00:06:29 Pania
my parents showed me how to do that.
00:06:31 Pania
And so that's what kind of led me to making, unfortunately, bad decisions.
00:06:38 Pania
And now I'm an adult.
00:06:39 Pania
I have a responsibility to, you know, change that and also model that differently to my children.
00:06:46 Pania
Because I know that I always didn't model that correct behavior to my children.
00:06:51 Pania
I completely messed up in the beginning.
00:06:54 Pania
And so
00:06:57 Pania
Yeah, I think that was probably the point of, even as a teenager, knowing, like wanting to be loved so deeply and knowing that even if it was an unhealthy relationship and love, that I could fix it or I could change it.
00:07:15 Pania
And yeah.
00:07:17 Pania
And I continued that on until I was in my 30s, like crazy, crazy.
00:07:26 Jaci Rogash
And it's, I'm, when I smiled, it's like just so resonant, so resonant.
00:07:33 Jaci Rogash
And I was the same.
00:07:34 Jaci Rogash
It was a different, very different upbringing by the sounds of it.
00:07:39 Jaci Rogash
But this detachment to myself and like needing attention and needing to be loved and needing, you know, that
00:07:49 Jaci Rogash
attention.
00:07:49 Jaci Rogash
I needed to be significant, significant to someone in some way.
00:07:54 Jaci Rogash
As much as I wanted it to be love, I didn't love myself.
00:07:59 Jaci Rogash
So there was no way that I was ever going to receive, you know, unconditional love from someone else because I couldn't give that to myself.
00:08:08 Jaci Rogash
And so I, yeah, I totally resonate with that.
00:08:11 Pania
Yeah.
00:08:12 Pania
Well, now I have adult, I have young adult children and I have, my youngest is
00:08:20 Pania
like pre-adult.
00:08:22 Pania
So now witnessing that and seeing that shift, like this has been the biggest thing for me, is watching the shift in me and then watching the shift in my children, because I watched that play out in my young adult children with their relationships and how they perceived themselves.
00:08:44 Pania
And it wasn't until I started, again, 30s,
00:08:48 Pania
till I started to really take notice of how I was responding and how I was showing up and how I was regulating my nervous system, that my children were actually then starting to realize that this is, you know, and changing and shifting.
00:09:04 Pania
It was like, it's the most beautiful thing that I've witnessed as being a parent.
00:09:08 Pania
I just love it.
00:09:09 Jaci Rogash
And that's so special.
00:09:11 Jaci Rogash
So special to see, you know, when we talk about breaking
00:09:15 Jaci Rogash
generational trauma and generational cycles.
00:09:18 Jaci Rogash
And I feel like our generation is doing that.
00:09:23 Jaci Rogash
I feel like we're the first to like, I'm not, I'm not doing this anymore.
00:09:27 Jaci Rogash
Not the first, but it feels a lot more obvious.
00:09:30 Jaci Rogash
And maybe that's because we're in it.
00:09:32 Jaci Rogash
I don't know.
00:09:34 Jaci Rogash
And it feels it's needed, right?
00:09:37 Jaci Rogash
It's needed.
00:09:39 Jaci Rogash
So tell me about addiction, life of addiction.
00:09:43 Jaci Rogash
When did that start?
00:09:46 Pania
So as a young teenager, I think I just grew up again.
00:09:51 Pania
It was modeled back when I grew up.
00:09:53 Pania
Drugs and alcohol were quite common.
00:09:56 Pania
Smoking a bit of weed, growing some plants in the back was normal.
00:10:02 Pania
Well, it was normal for me and it was normal for my peers as well, like the friends that I grew up with.
00:10:12 Pania
As I started to become into this young adult, this teenager, it was fun at first, but then also an escape.
00:10:23 Pania
And it just escalated and escalated.
00:10:27 Pania
So every time that I wanted to escape my reality, that was something-- it was so easy to get.
00:10:34 Pania
It was so easy to have, and it had an immediate reaction for me.
00:10:41 Pania
And I didn't get addicted to meth until probably late 20s.
00:10:53 Pania
And so it was just on and off for me.
00:10:57 Pania
Every time life got hard, that was what I went to.
00:11:03 Pania
Some people go to food, again, some people go to relationships, and that was my vice for me.
00:11:12 Pania
I always say I wasn't the typical drug addict.
00:11:15 Pania
Like, I wasn't somebody on the streets.
00:11:19 Pania
I never sold my stuff for a fix.
00:11:21 Pania
I would say, you know, I didn't intervene, like, intravenous, like, drugs.
00:11:29 Pania
And so...
00:11:30 Pania
I was well-dressed.
00:11:31 Pania
I brushed my teeth.
00:11:32 Pania
I didn't look like the typical drug addict that you might see.
00:11:37 Pania
And so that also then became a really good mask for me to be like, well, I'm not the typical drug addict.
00:11:45 Pania
So then I can hide behind that, and nobody will know.
00:11:49 Pania
I think being a functional drug addict is sometimes
00:11:55 Pania
10 times worse because what you're doing psychologically is wrong and then it's still got this hook and this hold on you.
00:12:04 Pania
So, and it was on and off.
00:12:07 Pania
It wasn't periods of,
00:12:10 Pania
constantly being on drugs.
00:12:11 Pania
Like, I had children in that time, so I would immediately not be taking drugs.
00:12:16 Pania
And I could stop and start again, another thing for me to psychologically say, oh, I can stop whenever I want, and I'm good, you know?
00:12:26 Pania
But it just had its hook in me for such a very, very long time.
00:12:33 Pania
And I think it wasn't until--
00:12:36 Pania
I experienced great grief.
00:12:38 Pania
I lost my dad.
00:12:40 Pania
And then three months later, I lost my brother-in-law.
00:12:44 Pania
So in that time, I could have easily said to myself, oh, I'm going to jump straight back on and get on.
00:12:54 Pania
And I didn't want to do that.
00:12:57 Pania
This was this deep feeling of like, I just need to feel this grief.
00:13:04 Pania
Then obviously my husband was locked up.
00:13:06 Pania
So I was just experiencing all this grief at one time.
00:13:10 Pania
And it could have like just, it would have been easy for me just to get on and just numb out.
00:13:17 Pania
And I wasn't 100% perfect in the beginning when I was trying to get clean.
00:13:25 Pania
But yeah, then you start noticing your addictions to people, your environment.
00:13:31 Pania
And that's when it's like, okay, this is a huge eye-opening thing for me.
00:13:39 Pania
Like, I'm surrounding myself with people who are, you know, addicted to drugs as well.
00:13:46 Pania
I'm surrounding myself with the wrong kind of people.
00:13:49 Pania
And then I was just really did a whole cull.
00:13:52 Pania
I mean, it wasn't, I always say healing is not a fun time.
00:13:56 Pania
Oh, it's not a fun time.
00:13:59 Pania
It's not been brutal.
00:14:02 Pania
Sorry.
00:14:03 Jaci Rogash
Let me like just delve you into the depths of hell and like we'll just work our way back up from there.
00:14:09 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:14:10 Pania
Yeah.
00:14:10 Pania
It's not a fun time.
00:14:12 Pania
Being addicted to drugs, I feel like was easy for me, but then, you know, getting clean and
00:14:20 Pania
really like, and I don't just mean clean from substance abuse, I mean clean from everything that was toxic and chemical in my life.
00:14:31 Pania
And yeah, that's led me to where I am now.
00:14:35 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:14:37 Jaci Rogash
Thank you for sharing that.
00:14:39 Jaci Rogash
I have so many questions.
00:14:43 Pania
I'm an open book.
00:14:44 Jaci Rogash
When we
00:14:47 Jaci Rogash
When you, talk about that and it's so obvious that you've done the work and that you've come to this place of acceptance of who you were.
00:14:55 Jaci Rogash
And you said that you're a functioning addict.
00:14:57 Jaci Rogash
At that time, did you know?
00:14:58 Jaci Rogash
Like, would you have said, I'm a drug, like in that moment, would you have said, I'm a drug addict?
00:15:03 Jaci Rogash
Or was it almost those moments where you're like, I can stop as a way of maybe convincing yourself that you weren't?
00:15:13 Pania
Yes.
00:15:14 Pania
Yes, because I would tell myself-- I knew I was a drug addict, and I would tell people-- I was also selling drugs as well.
00:15:21 Pania
So I would tell people-- I would kind of put myself up here as better than because I was the drug dealer.
00:15:29 Pania
It sounds so weird to say that.
00:15:33 Pania
But I was a drug dealer, and I was selling the drugs.
00:15:36 Pania
And these people were coming to me, and I could-- and I was saying to myself in my mind, I can--
00:15:42 Pania
I can stop at any time.
00:15:44 Pania
So I'm not as bad as that.
00:15:47 Pania
And so, yeah, that would be the narrative that played out in my head so that I didn't feel as bad about what was actually happening.
00:15:58 Pania
It's worse because you're completely ignoring the fact that you've got a problem.
00:16:05 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:16:06 Pania
Yeah.
00:16:07 Jaci Rogash
Yep.
00:16:08 Jaci Rogash
And so I...
00:16:10 Jaci Rogash
recreationally dabbled for a while.
00:16:13 Jaci Rogash
And I was very, very anti-drugs growing up.
00:16:16 Jaci Rogash
And then for my 19th birthday, my best friend gave me a pill for my present.
00:16:20 Jaci Rogash
Thanks.
00:16:21 Jaci Rogash
Happy birthday.
00:16:25 Jaci Rogash
Yeah, so good.
00:16:27 Jaci Rogash
And then, you know, dabbled here and there.
00:16:30 Jaci Rogash
And I had one friend who was no longer a friend, but it was
00:16:36 Jaci Rogash
every week she would look at her pay and she was like, I've got this and this and this to pay and this amount I need for drugs.
00:16:46 Jaci Rogash
So I'm living off $5 a week.
00:16:47 Jaci Rogash
It wasn't like I'm living off this and how can I do this?
00:16:50 Jaci Rogash
And I remember at the time just being like, wow, like, is that, you know, thinking about that.
00:16:56 Jaci Rogash
And there were some, and it was kind of when I had this moment of, I could see which path she was going down.
00:17:04 Jaci Rogash
And for me, it was like, I wasn't,
00:17:06 Jaci Rogash
I didn't want to stop taking anything because it was fun.
00:17:09 Jaci Rogash
It was an escape.
00:17:10 Jaci Rogash
But for me, there was very, it was very obvious.
00:17:12 Jaci Rogash
And I wouldn't say that I was addicted.
00:17:15 Jaci Rogash
It was just, you know, if I went out, I had a good time.
00:17:18 Jaci Rogash
But if I noticed that we'd gone out every weekend for a month or something, I'm like, no, I'm just staying home for the next two weeks.
00:17:25 Jaci Rogash
It was almost my, you know, me trying to ground myself to make sure that I didn't go down that path.
00:17:34 Jaci Rogash
And
00:17:35 Jaci Rogash
maybe there was a bit of a, I don't know, like, I'm not as bad as you because I can stop, but I don't, think that was my awareness, but I was just so mindful of so many people that were, and couldn't possibly go out or do anything without drugs.
00:17:52 Pania
Yeah.
00:17:54 Jaci Rogash
You know.
00:17:54 Pania
See, and that wasn't, that wasn't the case for me.
00:17:57 Pania
So if I didn't have the money,
00:17:59 Pania
to get the drugs, then that was just not an issue.
00:18:02 Pania
And I had kids, so I would put my kids first.
00:18:05 Pania
I would never put the drug before, but it was, you know, and then it was like, okay, well, how do we have drugs in our life and continue having this lifestyle, but then also just continue to do what we're doing.
00:18:20 Pania
And so that became a, then we were dealing and selling drugs to have our drugs and
00:18:28 Pania
live our life.
00:18:29 Pania
So it became very chaotic and but also functioning at the same time, which is, which is sad.
00:18:38 Pania
But yeah, a lesson.
00:18:41 Jaci Rogash
We live, right?
00:18:42 Jaci Rogash
We live.
00:18:42 Jaci Rogash
I like dated a drug dealer for a little while and I don't think I realized he was a drug dealer.
00:18:51 Jaci Rogash
What the ****?
00:18:53 Jaci Rogash
What just happened?
00:18:55 Jaci Rogash
How old were you when you
00:18:58 Jaci Rogash
You first got pregnant?
00:18:58 Jaci Rogash
Or how old were you?
00:18:59 Pania
When you were first baby?
00:19:01 Pania
I was 17, turning 18.
00:19:05 Pania
So I was 17.
00:19:11 Pania
I had my 17th, I had my 18th birthday, and then I gave birth to my son a month later.
00:19:20 Pania
So teen mom.
00:19:22 Pania
Yeah, another wild concept to dive into.
00:19:26 Pania
It's like I've got these files in my brain and then like I'm opening them up and diving into that file of that version of me.
00:19:35 Pania
At that time when I was a teen mom, I was also in the worst, the worst domestic violence relationship.
00:19:47 Pania
And that was...
00:19:48 Pania
like chaotic for me, like survival mode was at its highest.
00:19:55 Pania
And yeah, I wasn't like addicted to drugs at that time.
00:20:00 Pania
I was going through this other whole concept of being a young teenage mom trying to survive and trying to keep safe.
00:20:08 Pania
So yeah, 17, 18.
00:20:14 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:20:15 Jaci Rogash
And you think about that.
00:20:16 Jaci Rogash
I know when I was 17 and 18, I thought I was so old, so mature.
00:20:20 Jaci Rogash
And I look back and I'm like, oh, wow.
00:20:24 Pania
I remember saying to my mom when she got pregnant in her 30s, I was 14, and I said to her, ew, that is so disgusting.
00:20:34 Pania
I can't believe you're having sex at 33.
00:20:39 Pania
That's so embarrassing.
00:20:41 Pania
I was just disgusted.
00:20:44 Pania
And now I'm like,
00:20:46 Pania
Okay.
00:20:46 Pania
My mum was just trying to live.
00:20:47 Jaci Rogash
I think I had my oldest when I was 35 at 36.
00:20:54 Pania
Just like 14 year old, knowing nothing.
00:20:57 Jaci Rogash
And we died.
00:20:59 Pania
And then having a baby at 17.
00:21:01 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:21:02 Jaci Rogash
But you're not old at 17.
00:21:06 Jaci Rogash
Crazy.
00:21:07 Jaci Rogash
And moving through, we could literally talk for days with
00:21:14 Jaci Rogash
when you said you got to that period where you lost your dad and your brother-in-law and hubby in prison, like that grief, what do you think it was that, I guess, if we're going to go spiritual or maybe not, in that moment, do you know what it was that made you decide to feel that grief as opposed to numb out?
00:21:46 Pania
Yeah, because I've spoke about this.
00:21:48 Pania
This is part of, I've spoke about this a few times with a few people and I honestly can't know what exactly it was.
00:22:01 Pania
And now probably when I'm thinking about it even now, I did lose my dad and in some way
00:22:10 Pania
My dad also struggled with his own addictions as well.
00:22:14 Pania
So just maybe if we're going to go spiritual, I would like to think that there was something greater than me that was supporting me and guiding me and trying to help me.
00:22:32 Pania
I mean, like I said, I didn't immediately after my dad passed away, like I didn't immediately stop.
00:22:40 Pania
or decide to stop taking drugs or numb out with those situations.
00:22:47 Pania
But yeah, I would like to think that there was something higher than myself supporting me and guiding me and really wanting me to feel, feel again, which came back with a whole lot more than just grief, because I'd been suppressing
00:23:10 Pania
for such a long time, such a long time.
00:23:13 Pania
So yeah, I like to think maybe now it was.
00:23:20 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:23:22 Jaci Rogash
And as you know, as soon as we make the commitment to feel, the self-awareness that comes with that, and she said everything that we have to feel, it's not, it's never just one thing.
00:23:38 Jaci Rogash
Right.
00:23:40 Pania
No, never.
00:23:42 Pania
Never one thing.
00:23:43 Pania
I remember, I told this story as well.
00:23:46 Pania
I was sitting in my theater room living off Oreo cookies and watching Harry Potter on repeat because
00:23:58 Pania
Harry Potter was just so magical and my life was just so ****.
00:24:04 Pania
So I was just like that.
00:24:06 Pania
I always say, Harry Potter saved my life.
00:24:10 Pania
And maybe that's possibly the awakening moment for me too, but it's never just one thing.
00:24:17 Pania
And then you start to trace back to everything that has happened into your life.
00:24:23 Pania
So all of a sudden this portal is open and the floods are coming through and
00:24:29 Pania
It's not pretty, like I said before, but also then there's an understanding over time, especially now where I sit with myself in my soul, there's now an understanding that it wasn't my fault.
00:24:45 Pania
These emotions, these beliefs that I held onto weren't necessarily my own, and that had created and formed who I was and who I was becoming.
00:24:57 Pania
Yeah, taking that power back was tough.
00:25:01 Pania
But yeah, opening the floodgates to experiencing and learning your whole life thread.
00:25:12 Pania
Now I look back on it, and I think, oh, it's so cool.
00:25:14 Pania
It's really cool to-- yeah, it's really cool to have that awareness of the thread that carries you back and the threads that carry you or will carry you forward.
00:25:27 Pania
Yeah, I think in the moment I wasn't, I definitely wasn't thinking I was like, what's happening to me?
00:25:34 Pania
Yeah.
00:25:34 Jaci Rogash
Oh, for sure.
00:25:35 Jaci Rogash
And I, you know, same, you know, had so much trauma that I had just suppressed and suppressed and suppressed and got to the point where I was like, the same, like similar to what you said, where it's like, it's live or die here.
00:25:49 Pania
Yeah.
00:25:50 Jaci Rogash
Something needs to change or I'm not going to be here.
00:25:53 Jaci Rogash
And
00:25:55 Jaci Rogash
Yeah, every time you move, you think it's like these big things and you're like, I've done that.
00:26:00 Jaci Rogash
And then it's like, oh, I haven't actually.
00:26:02 Jaci Rogash
And now I agree when you're like, it's actually kind of cool to look back at it.
00:26:09 Jaci Rogash
And I am a bit of a weirdo because when something comes up, I get, I almost get excited by it.
00:26:19 Jaci Rogash
It's like, oh, okay.
00:26:21 Jaci Rogash
Like, where's this come from?
00:26:23 Jaci Rogash
Like, let me figure this one out.
00:26:26 Jaci Rogash
Although I still have,
00:26:29 Jaci Rogash
these moments where, and I don't know whether you have this, where sometimes something will just a memory or, something will come back.
00:26:37 Jaci Rogash
And it's like, okay.
00:26:39 Jaci Rogash
And they're not the big things anymore.
00:26:40 Jaci Rogash
Like I've worked through those, but there's just these little things that it's like, oh, okay, I just need to like, let that one go.
00:26:47 Jaci Rogash
But it's done with such a different mindset, a different perspective on everything than, you know, when you're in it, you're like,
00:26:55 Jaci Rogash
It's survival, right?
00:26:55 Jaci Rogash
It's like, I have to dig myself out of here in order to survive.
00:26:59 Jaci Rogash
And it's, you know, feel your feelings is confronting when it's the first time you've ever done it.
00:27:10 Pania
And, you know, wellness development, I just, that awareness and really being present is,
00:27:19 Pania
is huge because it changes everything that you experience in life.
00:27:22 Pania
And when hard things do come up and we're only human, like hard stuff is coming up for me all the time.
00:27:29 Pania
Yeah, I'm a weirdo too, like you.
00:27:31 Pania
I start to really like tap in and go, why is this coming up for me now?
00:27:35 Pania
What is this reflecting back to me?
00:27:38 Pania
How do I need to approach this?
00:27:40 Pania
And how can I approach this differently?
00:27:42 Pania
And again,
00:27:43 Pania
You know, I'm human, so I'm going to react, and I might have a cry and a ***** to my friends.
00:27:49 Pania
But then I'm like, OK, now I need to regulate my nervous system and how I'm going to approach this from a different angle.
00:27:59 Pania
So yeah, life is laughing.
00:28:01 Pania
And how do we come back from it?
00:28:04 Pania
How do we come back from a glitch?
00:28:06 Pania
We just, OK, center ourselves.
00:28:13 Pania
Yeah.
00:28:13 Pania
What, maybe years ago that would have just freaked me out.
00:28:17 Jaci Rogash
100%.
00:28:17 Jaci Rogash
I would have been like, no, we're stopping.
00:28:19 Jaci Rogash
We're starting the whole thing again.
00:28:20 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:28:20 Jaci Rogash
Whereas it's like, but that's life, right?
00:28:23 Jaci Rogash
Like, you know, there's this perception that, and I think even still, you know, I feel like when you're in the depths of it, it's like you look at other people and you think that I have the perfect life or everything's so good.
00:28:36 Jaci Rogash
And then,
00:28:37 Jaci Rogash
Even now, I would say when you get to a place similar to where we are, there can still be this perception from some people where it's like, oh, they've got everything figured out and they never have any problems or they never have any of these.
00:28:50 Jaci Rogash
And it's like, no, you just learn how to navigate it and roll with it as opposed to either suppressing it or avoiding it or letting it control you.
00:29:00 Jaci Rogash
And again, that comes back to the presence of like,
00:29:04 Jaci Rogash
this is what's happening right now.
00:29:05 Jaci Rogash
And being a human means experiencing so many ups and downs.
00:29:12 Pania
Yeah, that's so funny that you say that about looking at other people and thinking that they have their whole lives together, because, you know, I do it, especially in today's world of social media, you're constantly visually seeing people living out, you know, a highlight reel of their lives.
00:29:28 Pania
So you compare then to your life and you're like, oh my God, am I mine is around nutrition and
00:29:34 Pania
fitness.
00:29:35 Pania
And I started to like psychologically think to myself, oh my God, I'm not doing enough, or I'm not lifting weights, or I'm not, you know, dialing deeply on my nutrition.
00:29:45 Pania
And I started to really compare myself to other people.
00:29:49 Pania
And then I was like, oh my God, I'm not perfect.
00:29:51 Pania
What am I going to do?
00:29:53 Pania
But again,
00:29:55 Pania
having those life coaching skills, I start to life coach myself.
00:29:59 Pania
And I ask myself these powerful questions like, what does my body need?
00:30:04 Pania
I'm not like everybody else, but all individual human beings experiencing life differently with, no one is the same person at all.
00:30:14 Pania
So it's like really asking myself, okay, I really want to move my body.
00:30:18 Pania
I know that, but do I want to lift weights?
00:30:20 Pania
No, I want to go to Pilates.
00:30:22 Pania
And that's then like really just tapping into myself and really consciously asking myself those powerful questions and knowing what I need now instead of outsourcing or numbing out.
00:30:37 Pania
So, yeah.
00:30:40 Jaci Rogash
And I think, you know, when we focus on ourselves, life is so much richer.
00:30:48 Jaci Rogash
And it's, as you said, like social media has some incredible qualities and it also has some ******* horrendous qualities.
00:30:57 Jaci Rogash
And it's really interesting how easily we can, you know, compare or fixate or, you know, look at other people.
00:31:06 Jaci Rogash
And then, and I know that we've had this conversation previously, you know, before this around when you see people just actively trying to pull people down as a way of,
00:31:18 Jaci Rogash
being significant.
00:31:19 Pania
Yeah.
00:31:20 Jaci Rogash
Just, oh, it's shocking.
00:31:24 Pania
And I think, and I've started to see even my shift in who I'm coaching as well and my age bracket shift and it has become,
00:31:37 Pania
I am coaching more younger women from the ages of 20 to 30 and them experiencing this new age life in the social media world and experiencing probably what you and I had experienced.
00:31:54 Pania
But back in the day, I was like passing notes.
00:31:58 Pania
And now people are, yeah, she's a **** or whatever you know, don't talk to her.
00:32:05 Pania
or like he's so hot, but now you're jumping on social media and you're just ragging everyone and working with some high profile people, it just consumes them because people are so, so nasty and young generation, their nervous system is already so dysregulated.
00:32:30 Pania
They're trying to like really trying to navigate all that at the same time is
00:32:36 Pania
it's crazy.
00:32:38 Pania
Like it blows my mind.
00:32:40 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:32:40 Jaci Rogash
It's wild.
00:32:42 Jaci Rogash
Like I, it just makes me, it makes me angry, but it just is such a repellent for me.
00:32:50 Jaci Rogash
Anyone that just feels like they need to do that.
00:32:53 Jaci Rogash
And I think also a testament to the community that we're in.
00:32:56 Jaci Rogash
You know, I think until I joined, discovered the Beautiful You coaching community, I
00:33:03 Jaci Rogash
didn't really know what it was like to collaborate and work alongside and support other women.
00:33:09 Jaci Rogash
life for me was such a competition.
00:33:11 Jaci Rogash
Like I had to be better than someone to be worthy or to be deserving or to be noticed.
00:33:16 Pania
Yeah.
00:33:16 Jaci Rogash
And, you know, and I guess that comes back to what you said initially when you were like, I need to sort myself out, but then you start to notice who you're hanging around with and those patterns and those habits.
00:33:29 Jaci Rogash
And it changed, like, you know, you really need to
00:33:33 Jaci Rogash
feel what it's like to be, a part of a community like that or surrounded by people like that to understand that it is actually possible.
00:33:42 Pania
Yeah.
00:33:42 Pania
And we're not connecting on a, we're not connecting on a human left level anymore as much as we used to.
00:33:49 Pania
We're not doing the face to face contact.
00:33:52 Pania
It's through the screen.
00:33:54 Pania
So people are, you know, feeling more protected.
00:34:00 Pania
when they're attacking somebody or tearing them down and they don't think that there's any, there's going to be any consequences.
00:34:08 Pania
It takes me all my...
00:34:11 Pania
I've done the work.
00:34:11 Pania
I keep telling myself, it takes me all my effort not to reply or retaliate or get so hyped up about it.
00:34:20 Pania
Because then I have to think to myself, this is what they want.
00:34:24 Pania
And then if I'm doing this, how am I-- that's not settling something inside of me.
00:34:31 Pania
That's just-- and there's a whole other thing around that.
00:34:36 Pania
Yeah, it takes me all my effort not to respond and just-- and even sticking up for somebody.
00:34:41 Pania
But it's-- it's what these people want.
00:34:46 Pania
And, yeah, it's a sad part of the internet world, unfortunately.
00:34:51 Pania
And, yeah, it's just a whole other level.
00:34:53 Pania
And I-- and I have a young-- like, my daughter's-- she's going to be 21 at the end of the month.
00:35:00 Pania
And watching her in her high-profile life,
00:35:06 Pania
I always say to her, just come out and be authentic and honest and don't hide anything because
00:35:15 Pania
If someone wants to come at you, you've put all your life on social media anyway.
00:35:19 Pania
So now they can't attack you for anything.
00:35:23 Pania
And, you know, she says that she says because she's got a lot of friends in her world as well that get attacked and tear down and they make full reels.
00:35:31 Pania
They have whole pages of just tearing one particular person down.
00:35:35 Pania
It's crazy.
00:35:38 Pania
And so, yeah, she always says that as well.
00:35:40 Pania
She's like, just be authentic, be honest, show up as exactly who you are.
00:35:45 Pania
are.
00:35:46 Pania
And when someone comes for you, you can say to them, well, I don't care what you're saying because I've already put it on the internet anyway, and it doesn't bother me and I've done the work.
00:35:55 Jaci Rogash
So yeah, I used to be one of my it was one of my biggest lessons, I think was a secret can only hurt you when it's a secret.
00:36:06 Jaci Rogash
Like when you take responsibility and acknowledge whatever it is, it can't hurt you anymore.
00:36:12 Jaci Rogash
And I think for me, I hid so much
00:36:15 Jaci Rogash
of myself for so long that I was hurting me.
00:36:22 Jaci Rogash
Because it was such a secret to me.
00:36:24 Jaci Rogash
It was such like a, no, we're not looking at that.
00:36:28 Jaci Rogash
And so I was creating more harm for myself.
00:36:31 Jaci Rogash
And then when you bring it up, it's like, well, it's here and it's out.
00:36:36 Jaci Rogash
And I would imagine like, yeah, having, being a mum yourself and having a daughter in that,
00:36:45 Jaci Rogash
bracket and as you said, like a very high profile life and that kind of thing.
00:36:50 Jaci Rogash
I would imagine there's also a level of protectiveness for some of your clients, but how have you, you know, you've had 10 lifetimes, maybe even 20 or more?
00:37:00 Pania
I know I always say my short life, I've lived a very long life.
00:37:04 Jaci Rogash
Oh, I've lived so many lives.
00:37:07 Jaci Rogash
How have you found motherhood throughout all of it?
00:37:14 Pania
Honestly, I-- when I had my children, I was still a child.
00:37:20 Pania
I was still a baby trying to parent, and I didn't know what I was doing.
00:37:24 Pania
And I made so many mistakes.
00:37:27 Pania
And I think that that's-- I still get this lump of emotional-- it's not regret anymore.
00:37:37 Pania
It's not guilt, but it is just a sadness for myself.
00:37:43 Pania
now at that time when I was raising children.
00:37:46 Pania
But now I'm so proud of myself and I'm so proud of the mum that I am.
00:37:54 Pania
And I just see like the self-love, like putting myself first because I used to always put everybody else above me.
00:38:04 Pania
And so now I've put myself first, I can just,
00:38:10 Pania
It's such a beautiful experience to witness your children thriving, even as adults.
00:38:16 Pania
And I love to know that I take credit for all the hard work that I've done, and that's shifted and transformed.
00:38:25 Pania
Because when my two elders were growing up being in their teens,
00:38:31 Pania
My life was very chaotic, and I could see that playing out in their lives.
00:38:36 Pania
And they were living very chaotic lives, playing up in school, getting into relationships that weren't very healthy for them, and taking drugs, and all those kinds of things.
00:38:48 Pania
And I knew that that was my responsibility.
00:38:52 Pania
Now I know that that was part of how I was playing out my life, and that was--
00:38:57 Pania
a mirror to them and same as when my parents were mirroring to me those bad habits and those emotions and beliefs as well.
00:39:05 Pania
And so now I've just done a full switch.
00:39:10 Pania
My children are just the most beautiful humans on the planet.
00:39:15 Pania
And I'm just so grateful.
00:39:17 Pania
Their work ethic, their kindness, and their passion for life now has really, really changed.
00:39:25 Pania
I always say when you-- because I love being a parent of adult children, and it's still crazy.
00:39:31 Pania
But I'm like, I hate to burst any parent's bubble with young children because they think it's hard now.
00:39:40 Pania
And they're like, it'll get easier.
00:39:41 Pania
I'm like, um, I mean, it does, but it doesn't.
00:39:47 Pania
It also doesn't.
00:39:49 Pania
Like, I think I made a story about it the other day and I was like, um, yeah, it's a different kind of hard and you're still navigating being a parent.
00:39:58 Pania
And yeah, I just was like, um,
00:40:03 Pania
Congratulations and good luck.
00:40:07 Jaci Rogash
I know, right?
00:40:08 Jaci Rogash
And, you know, I'm in the thick of it with a two and a four year old.
00:40:12 Jaci Rogash
So it's like, you know, I'm in the thick of baby years.
00:40:17 Jaci Rogash
Yeah, baby.
00:40:18 Jaci Rogash
Emotional growth of being needed, like being like.
00:40:23 Jaci Rogash
If I don't take care of them, they don't survive.
00:40:25 Pania
Yes, survival.
00:40:28 Jaci Rogash
I'm in that state.
00:40:29 Jaci Rogash
Survival.
00:40:30 Jaci Rogash
You're responsible.
00:40:30 Jaci Rogash
I say the same thing to everything.
00:40:32 Jaci Rogash
I said, I don't ever think, like parenting is beautiful and such a gift and all of that, but there is always going to be, like there's, it's just, as you said, like it's a different season of heart.
00:40:43 Jaci Rogash
Like it gets easier in some ways, but you have different challenges.
00:40:47 Jaci Rogash
And as
00:40:50 Jaci Rogash
big-hearted humans.
00:40:51 Jaci Rogash
We're always going to care.
00:40:52 Jaci Rogash
We're always going to want the best for them.
00:40:54 Jaci Rogash
And that means showing up for ourselves and showing up for them and seeing what they do.
00:41:00 Jaci Rogash
And, you know, I, you know, sometimes joke with my partner who, you know, could do some more work.
00:41:09 Jaci Rogash
It's like...
00:41:12 Jaci Rogash
We'll clock it.
00:41:12 Jaci Rogash
We'll put a pin in it.
00:41:14 Jaci Rogash
I'm like, please don't say that to them.
00:41:18 Jaci Rogash
This is, all this, is like so many of our, so much of us is formed and created and based on who we are when we're little and how we're, the environment that we're brought up in.
00:41:29 Jaci Rogash
But I just, I do joke that I have two boys.
00:41:33 Jaci Rogash
So I'm like, I'm kind of glad, like there's like a little bit of stress relief knowing that they're boys doesn't entirely take it away.
00:41:39 Jaci Rogash
I need to make sure they're not ********.
00:41:41 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:41:43 Jaci Rogash
But it's just,
00:41:44 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:41:44 Jaci Rogash
And for all of it, it's just, I don't think it ever gets, I think there's certain parts that get easier, but then there's other parts that become more.
00:41:54 Pania
Yeah.
00:41:55 Pania
When they get older, they can express.
00:41:58 Pania
so much more and they can speak to, so they have words to articulate their feelings and emotions.
00:42:07 Pania
I mean, sometimes they don't and you've got to try and figure it out and you're like, what the hell's going on?
00:42:12 Pania
But I mean, even the school system, I was saying, filling out a form, go on other days where you're just signing a permission slip and putting the money in the envelope and sending, now it's a whole parent portal and I'm like,
00:42:29 Pania
And my youngest son is year 11.
00:42:34 Pania
So still navigating parenthood.
00:42:39 Pania
And for me, showing up and constantly being that example and constantly doing the work, that's what's most important to me for my children to grow up.
00:42:53 Pania
and be the best versions of themselves.
00:42:55 Pania
And I just would love to say to anyone who does listen to our podcast that it's never too late.
00:43:01 Pania
It is never too late to switch that up and change the narrative of your story.
00:43:06 Pania
And we all make mistakes.
00:43:08 Pania
And no parent is perfect, but we definitely have a choice.
00:43:12 Pania
And we can definitely start to choose ourselves and, yeah, start to mirror to our kids.
00:43:20 Pania
the best examples that we possibly can.
00:43:23 Jaci Rogash
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:43:27 Jaci Rogash
I used to think when I was growing, when I was really mature and like 18, so married with kids at 25 and I think, thank **** I wasn't.
00:43:41 Pania
I don't want to be a grandmother just yet.
00:43:43 Pania
I'm like, I don't want to be a grandmother.
00:43:45 Pania
I've just literally
00:43:47 Pania
I've been, my kids are almost out of the nest, even though I'm freaking out about that, but.
00:43:53 Jaci Rogash
Oh, and even that, like, it's all there, but even now.
00:43:57 Jaci Rogash
It's never ending.
00:43:58 Jaci Rogash
It's never ending.
00:44:00 Jaci Rogash
But one of my things with my kids is like, I want them to see what it looks like to take responsibility and ownership for things.
00:44:07 Jaci Rogash
And I know that, I wouldn't say I'm a reactive person, but in this season of life, I'm reactive when it comes to parenting at times.
00:44:14 Jaci Rogash
And when I do react, I talk to them about it.
00:44:17 Jaci Rogash
or I apologize if I do something.
00:44:19 Jaci Rogash
And so I know some people are like, oh, you should never put, I'm like, no, that's not, it's not what I believe in.
00:44:25 Jaci Rogash
Like, I want them to know that everyone ***** up.
00:44:28 Jaci Rogash
Like everyone makes mistakes and it's how you claim that and how you own that and how you mend those relationships over, you know, avoidance or ego.
00:44:39 Pania
Yeah, I just got chills when you said that, because I just think that that's so beautiful and I'm so,
00:44:46 Pania
Yeah, it just makes me happy that that's a realization for you now, parenting young children, because I didn't realize that until I was-- you know, my kids were, like, 16.
00:44:58 Pania
And it was, like, still learning to say, like, I'm-- like, I'm sorry.
00:45:03 Pania
I was a reactive parent right up until then.
00:45:06 Pania
That-- their age, that, um, was just a whole other level for me to be, like,
00:45:12 Pania
I'm so sorry I reacted the way I did, and this is why I reacted the way I did.
00:45:17 Pania
So, yeah, I just think that that's, yeah, a beautiful experience.
00:45:22 Pania
And the more that we can support each other as mothers as well, because we've all had different seasons of life, and we've all had different experiences and journeys.
00:45:32 Pania
And so, yeah, I think the more we band together, the more we support each other and share our stories and share our truth,
00:45:42 Pania
Yeah, then a lot more children will grow up with a nice regulated nervous system and know how to come back to self.
00:45:52 Pania
Yeah, when things get tough.
00:45:54 Jaci Rogash
Yeah.
00:45:55 Jaci Rogash
Thank you for sharing that.
00:45:56 Jaci Rogash
It's so beautiful.
00:45:59 Jaci Rogash
Tell me, I have two more questions.
00:46:01 Jaci Rogash
Two questions that I really want to ask, because I'm just so mindful of your time.
00:46:06 Jaci Rogash
What have been your biggest lessons or
00:46:10 Jaci Rogash
growth areas.
00:46:11 Pania
Oh, my God.
00:46:13 Jaci Rogash
That's even a question that you can answer.
00:46:15 Pania
I'll go into the file and see which one.
00:46:19 Jaci Rogash
What comes through today?
00:46:21 Pania
My whole life has been a lesson.
00:46:24 Pania
I think, yeah, thought about this question before we jumped on.
00:46:28 Pania
And I think my biggest lesson would be around purpose.
00:46:33 Pania
I struggled my whole life to feel like
00:46:38 Pania
I was part of something or I had a purpose or I was meant for something.
00:46:43 Pania
And I think the biggest lesson is I like to see it as an equation and it's like, find out what you're good at.
00:46:54 Pania
plus helping people.
00:46:56 Pania
And then that's your purpose, I think.
00:47:00 Pania
And then once I realized that, that was just a light bulb moment for me, like, OK, I'm really good at doing this, and this is what I'm going to do to help people.
00:47:12 Pania
And then that became my purpose.
00:47:14 Pania
And it has just rolled on and rolled on from there.
00:47:19 Pania
And I think my biggest growth is
00:47:25 Pania
Definitely, that healing is my own responsibility.
00:47:32 Pania
And that the smallest change, just the tiniest changes every single day can lead to like the biggest impacts.
00:47:44 Pania
And I think, you know, we there's a lot of people out there who think that they have to have these big, impactful things, these big changes.
00:47:53 Pania
make these big bounds and leaps, but it's in those small moments, in those everyday moments in life that can have the hugest impacts and can lead on into living the life that you really deserve and you really want.
00:48:10 Jaci Rogash
Yes.
00:48:12 Pania
Thought about that question.
00:48:13 Pania
That's a really good question.
00:48:14 Pania
Because I was like, lessons.
00:48:19 Jaci Rogash
So every day, every day is a lesson.
00:48:21 Jaci Rogash
What did I learn today?
00:48:22 Pania
Yeah, basically.
00:48:26 Jaci Rogash
I love that healing is my own responsibility.
00:48:29 Jaci Rogash
That is such a powerful statement.
00:48:32 Jaci Rogash
And imagine imagine how different life would be if everybody everybody realized.
00:48:36 Pania
Yeah.
00:48:38 Pania
Yeah.
00:48:38 Jaci Rogash
And as you said, like, to
00:48:40 Jaci Rogash
Just those micro moments, those small things, like the smallest changes, the one percenters as opposed to...
00:48:46 Jaci Rogash
I feel like that's often why people stop or don't get to where they want because they make it so much bigger than it needs to be.
00:48:53 Pania
Yeah.
00:48:54 Pania
And there's this thing where I find a lot of people just want
00:49:00 Pania
the instant fix, or this is how I'm going to-- how do I get from-- people will see me online.
00:49:06 Pania
And the most common question they ask me is, how did I get from where I was to where I am now?
00:49:11 Pania
And it just-- I'm straight up honest.
00:49:14 Pania
I'm like, it did not happen overnight.
00:49:16 Pania
It was not a fun time.
00:49:18 Pania
And it has taken a lot of hard work.
00:49:21 Pania
But it was in those tiny little moments that every day I decided to
00:49:27 Pania
you know, do something different or make a change, take that tiny step forward and just keep leaning in, keep leaning in.
00:49:35 Pania
That led to this moment here where I am now.
00:49:38 Pania
And now I'm pushing myself to be even bigger and better than I was every day yesterday, you know, even from yesterday.
00:49:46 Pania
So, yeah.
00:49:49 Jaci Rogash
I love that.
00:49:50 Jaci Rogash
And my last question, which I ask everybody, what does thriving after trauma mean to you?
00:49:57 Pania
I definitely think that your past does not define you or how you live, knowing that your story was like, it's a part of you, but it does not control the rest of your life.
00:50:12 Pania
And you can use
00:50:15 Pania
these experiences, your personal experiences, to help others.
00:50:21 Pania
Everything that I've gone through, everything that you've gone through gives us these lessons, these growth moments.
00:50:28 Pania
And so now it's like, how can we continue to help the collective?
00:50:33 Pania
And it might just be one person.
00:50:34 Pania
And the more we show up and the more we share our story, the more I step into my authenticity, the more people that I find are
00:50:45 Pania
attracted to what I do and who I am.
00:50:47 Pania
And so, yeah, I just think my experiences, all those, like you said in the very beginning, for a circle, full circle moment, all the, you know, toxic relationships, the addiction, the experience of supporting my husband in prison for six years, all of that has led me
00:51:09 Pania
to hear now and yeah, I haven't let it define me and I've just made it become a part of my life and who I am and I hope to share everything that I've learned from that with anyone and everyone that I can.
00:51:27 Jaci Rogash
Thank you so much.
00:51:29 Jaci Rogash
Please, I feel like we need like a round two because it's
00:51:33 Jaci Rogash
So many things that we haven't got.
00:51:35 Pania
That's so fun.
00:51:36 Jaci Rogash
I just.
00:51:37 Pania
I love having a chat.
00:51:38 Pania
You get me on and I'm just like, yep.
00:51:42 Pania
Talk about life.
00:51:43 Jaci Rogash
Amazing.
00:51:44 Jaci Rogash
Thank you so much for being here.
00:51:45 Jaci Rogash
Yay.
00:51:46 Pania
Thank you for having me.