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The FODcast
In the FODcast (The Future of #DigitalCommerce) we explore the real career stories of the people who have made it to the very top of the sector and those who are working at the cutting edge of innovation and change right now. Listeners to the podcast gain insight into the journeys industry leaders have taken to be where they are today, the challenges they are facing now and their aims for the future.
The FODcast
The 'Fan Club' Effect: Rethinking Retail Loyalty with Erica Sandelin Ekelund
What makes a customer truly loyal? According to Voyado CEO Erica Sandelin Ekelund, it’s not just points or discounts – it’s about building genuine connections that turn shoppers into passionate brand advocates.
Or, as she calls them, your fan club.
In the latest episode of The FODcast, Erica reveals why the most successful retailers double down on their fan club, crafting tailored, high-impact loyalty strategies instead of relying on one-size-fits-all schemes.
We also cover:
- Why loyalty is about consistent brand promises, not just transactions
- How an “inch wide, mile deep” focus helps Voyado outperform broader platforms
- The demographic insights that shape different customer journeys
- How to connect online and offline retail experiences seamlessly
- Why user-friendly tech is replacing heavy enterprise systems in retail
If you’re in retail, marketing, or customer experience, this is a great insight into how to turn customers into lifelong fans, connect online and in-store journeys, AND build loyalty strategies that deliver real results.
Simply Commerce is the leading supplier of talent into digital commerce across technology, digital marketing, product, sales, and leadership.
Find our more about our approach and our services within digital commerce recruitment here: https://simply-commerce.co.uk/
Hello and welcome to Season 7 of the podcast, the podcast focused on the future of digital commerce hosted by Simply Commerce. Season 7 promises to continue to bring you some of the industry's brightest minds across the globe as we unpick the sector and where it's heading From war stories to strategy and technology, deep dives to future trends we cover it all as we continue our journey to have one of the most popular podcasts in commerce. Before we start, if you enjoy our content, please do hit the subscribe button on whatever platform you're listening on, like and share on socials.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the podcast. I'm very, very excited to have Erika join us. From Bayardo. Erika, I would attempt your surname, but I don't think I do the best job of it, so why don't you do it for me and let everyone know your full name?
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, I'll help you. So it's erica sandal in eckeland perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad you did it because I think I'd probably fall down with that one for our listeners. Uh, meeting you for the first time, it would be good to understand, uh your role at foyado and also what has brought you on this journey to where you are now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm the CEO currently at Voyado. Previously I was the CFO and I actually joined Voyado as an investor. So back in 2017, I worked within private equity and stumbled upon upon voyado, got super interested, uh trying to uh really convince the founders that they should take me in as a as an investor. Uh, so did that in 2018 because it took a year to convince them, so started then as a board member and then they convinced me to join operationally, so started as a CFO. The company didn't really know what a CFO was, so we built that road together and then becoming a CEO as of last year.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's an unusual path to take, and what was it that made you want to switch from being fully involved in the investing side to actually being operationally in charge of running Voyado?
Speaker 3:So I think it was really the people and also, obviously, the product. I fell in love with the product the first time I saw it when they demoed the product, but then, once I got to know and learn more about the company, it was really the people and that's really still also why I took on the role as ceo, because we have amazing culture and amazing people at voyado that are customer obsessed, and it's it's an honor to be working with, uh, with all voyadors so for listeners new to viado, for you said if you fell in love with uh product, what problems did the company set out to solve from day one with the product?
Speaker 3:So we focus a lot around loyalty. So we are trying to make it easier for retailers to have consumers falling in love with their brand and the products and the services that they're offering. So if I was to describe Vojodo, especially back then, with one word, it is loyalty. So we help retailers making their consumers become truly fans to their brands.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that's a hot topic right now. It's something that I have posted about a few times and it's a conversation that is being had with retailers, agencies, vendors, everyone that I'm speaking to at the moment, so we'll come on to that more. But in your view, how has the definition of a physical goods retailer evolved in the past four or five years?
Speaker 3:So I think, if we take a step back, I think a lot of people have been afraid, and also are afraid now, that the shopping experience is now going to completely change and also back like 10 years ago when e-com came across and really boomed. But I think what's really still important is to make your consumer retailers mission is really to make inspire your consumers with great product and great services, and that hasn't changed, even if it is on a physical world or if it is on a digital world. Still, the real purpose for a retailer is to serve the consumers with great product and great services.
Speaker 2:OK, so in one sentence, if you can over the next hour what do you think is the main thing that the audience is going to learn from our conversation today?
Speaker 3:from our conversation today, I think they will understand the importance of creating long-lasting customer relationship with the consumers.
Speaker 2:Okay. So if we move on to a bit more detail then, about Foyardo and the strategy, you guys have made a deliberate choice to serve retailers with real physical infantry. Why would you not want to go further afield and chase other sectors?
Speaker 3:I think there are a lot of great company out there and everyone knows that there are global giants out there that have tons like so much more resources in terms of R&D and in terms of go-to-market.
Speaker 3:So we decided early on, in order to beat these global giants, we need to focus, and that is really the secret sauce of Voyado is the focus of products and the focus of sector, of products and the focus of sector. We would never have been able to compete with these global giants if we were scattered and tried to do and build the best product and also services for different types of industries and verticals. We have seen companies within our size that has tried and their product becomes too spread, like they're spreading themselves too thin, which is actually hurting them and which you can see in the turn numbers. We have an extremely low turn of a couple of percentage points and we have really happy customers because they know that we're going to stay true to what they are delivering and to them, to retailers. So I think that the secret sauce for us has really been the focus.
Speaker 2:Right, so it's the inch wide mile deep.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly I understand, understand.
Speaker 2:And is it only um? Is it only b2c or are you looking across the b2b and d2c channels?
Speaker 3:so currently we are only focusing on companies that are selling a physical good to a consumer, so it is b2c okay, and is that something you think might change over time?
Speaker 2:Because there is a lot of parity between the B2C journey and the B2B journey. There are some nuances, but they're actually fundamentally doing a very similar thing the b2b market uh, as well who are selling a physical good.
Speaker 3:it's not that far away to what we're doing right now, but instead we have decided we have some customers who actually are b2b, but it's just a few. We we really want to succeed in what we're doing and instead of broadening the product even further, we're trying to do more stuff within our product to retailers. So instead of going to a new vertical, we launch new products Like, for example, retail media. That's a completely new product, but within our space and also really appreciated by the retail customers. So that's the decision we have done customers.
Speaker 2:So that's the decision we have done, okay, and what, in your view, uh, is likely to break when a platform tries to straddle the whole physical and digital piece? Because you see customers you take on from other clients. Um, is there anything that you regularly see?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, as I, we see different stuff, but I think one thing that we see is that retailers that come from other types of platforms have not been able to get a 360 view of their end consumers. So, for example, if you start Tim Googling, you're trying to buy a sofa. So you get into a website, you get super inspired, but then you actually close the computer, go to sleep and then the next day you go into the physical store and buy a sofa. Obviously you've done with that transaction. You should not get advertising on that sofa, you should get it on side tables. And a lot of retailers are actually struggling to get that 360 view of the end consumer and that's a problem that we are solving, and it is quite difficult to get the full 360 view of understanding where the consumer starts and end its customer journey. So those are some of the pain points that we see that retailers today 2025, are still struggling with.
Speaker 2:Okay, and just for the audience, what, what exactly do you mean by a 360 view?
Speaker 3:no, it's really understanding independently where the consumer starts its journey or ends its journey. A system like voyado should understand that and it should understand who you are and also understand if the retailer wants to communicate with you. Understand who you are. What have you purchased before? What would you most likely want to purchase in the future? So really understanding everything about the consumer and, to be frank, I like to call like. If you have loyal customers, they are your fan club. So understanding everything about your fan club and staying true to them and giving them a promise that you can deliver upon.
Speaker 2:Okay, that kind of leads me nicely into my next question, which is to get a bit of a walkthrough from you on how the CRM point of sale marketing data come together inside Voyado to help give the 360 view.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it also depends, I would say, on jurisdictions, because in Sweden, for example, if you're using Voyado, you can buy data so you understand where you live, if you have kids, if you're moving, and then if you can merge that with all the data on your purchase history, then you really get a good view. And I think loyalty is so much more than just collecting points. For example, we have a retailer who's selling jeans. It's all about understanding and offering to repair jeans, for example, or if you do recycling. So I think what's different to us, if you compare to other more of a CXP vendors, is really understanding how to work with loyalty and not only thinking about its points or different levels. It could be challenges, interactions in different kind of ways. So I think that's really where we stand out, because, since we worked with retailers for so long, we know and we can help customers in not just setting up the CRM strategy but also to execute it and and how to get consumers really loving your brand okay, and it's also coming to the table with ideas, right.
Speaker 2:So, as an example, I saw a post yesterday I think it was JD sports. They have the, the crepe stand, you know the shoe protection stuff. They've got a whole stand. I think it's JD, I might be wrong, but they've got a whole stand. I think it's jd, I might be wrong, but they've got a whole stand there where you can buy the product. But also you have staff that are now offering a cleaning service for the trainers. So you drop your trainers off and you come back in two or three days and they've cleaned them up for you, and that that's the kind of thing I think that you're getting at. Right is other ways to keep customers loyal and wanting to come back to that brand.
Speaker 3:Exactly. It could be like hey, I see that you just bought a pair of shoes or a coat. This is like the washing instructions to take really care of your new jacket that we hope that you're going to love forever and ever. And obviously that type of communication you're more likely to open that and actually read it and get connected to the brand than if you just get an email. 10% discount on your next purchase. So having that type of interaction creates loyalty to the brands.
Speaker 2:So why is it so hard, then, for so many multi-store retailers to get this right?
Speaker 3:Because I think they like. One example is that a lot of brands and retailers are just sending out the same message to everyone, like, for example, if you would get an email with, yeah, you get a great deal on stockings or leggings or whatever, which is probably not something you wouldn't buy to yourself, uh, but not understanding who you are sending out at what time, with what type of message. A lot of retailers are just sending out the same message to to everyone and you don't really feel special if you get that type of communication. And also not understanding that that everyone don't get triggered by discounts.
Speaker 2:They want to feel special in other ways, and that's not only discounts yeah, and I I was thinking about that actually recently is that I think certain age groups want discounts more than others. Um, I think, as you get a bit older, you're looking for not the cheapest thing, but potentially the um most reliable um when you're, when you're looking at your purchases. So, yeah, that's, that's about data and knowing your, the consumer. In terms of the uk, uh, we've got quite stringent gR rules and there's the opt-in, opt-out for cookies and whatnot. So that must be making this whole process a little bit harder for you guys and for the end client.
Speaker 3:No, I would say the other way, because we are a Swedish company, so we run by the same regulations as the UK, so we are like our DNA is within GDPR. So actually, when you are using a system like Voyado, you're asking for consent, Because when you're buying something, there is a consent where you need to tick in. I am okay to get this type of advertising. So I think a lot of retailers understood that they need to use a service like Voyado because that's the only way you can get consent. So a lot of companies and retailers but companies overall are looking how can I use zero first party data because of the cookie death?
Speaker 3:So if you look at our product, we have Voyadoage and that's the CRM that we have been talking about, the loyalty. Then we have our other product, which is product and discovery on site. So everything you see on site when you search for a blue jeans jacket or when you navigate on a site, If you can use all the data that we have from our CRM system and then you know that now Tim is coming into the site because you clicked on an email, I know you are coming in on the site. Then I know Tim is never buying on discount, You're never returning anything. You're a true lovely fan. Hence I'm going to show these types of products. Or we have Erica coming in. She's always buying on discount and returning the majority of the stuff that she's bought. She's going to get this type of product because she's not a profitable customer. So if you can adapt your site based on everything you know about the end consumer, that makes much more of a profitable growth for the retailers yeah, and it will allow that smooth transition from offline to online.
Speaker 2:The consumer ideally won't notice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:We'll talk more about that shortly. I want to ask, with all the data you've got, what's the most surprising loyalty-driven behavior that you've noticed?
Speaker 3:Oh, that is a good question. Oh, that is a good question, um. So so every year we we launch um a retail radar where we look at all the data that we have uh, and we do see some trends uh, in between females and and and males and, to be honest, now nothing really surprised me, but it's it's all about how actually men are, overall, better consumers because they go in, they purchase and they, they leave. So I, I would say, in many ways, uh, male consumers or shoppers are, are better to target because they're much easier and, uh, easier consumers okay, yeah, I would.
Speaker 2:I would agree with that. I just want to go in, grab the thing and come back out again exactly and not bother to to return it no, absolutely, even if it doesn't quite fit. And how do you guys spot churn risk before customers do?
Speaker 3:um, oh, you mean from a consumer perspective?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so not our turn.
Speaker 3:So you can see that, on how often do a consumer open emails or when do they shop last. So we're trying to help our customers, retailers to set up and trigger flows on. Okay, we're missing you because we haven't heard from you in a while. Last time when you visited us, you looked at these. Now you're probably interested in that. So we try to help our customers based on trigger events and how we see that consumer, how easy and when should you try to communicate certain things to get them back.
Speaker 2:The trigger events around engagement and are they still engaged based on the data you have, or are they not, and do we need to work out a different way to try and engage and bring them back?
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, and I think now, with everything that is around AI, I think using AI within Voyado Engage will help a lot, because you can use AI in our tool both as a senior CRM strategy person but then doing hands-on work. So getting advice from AI saying, okay, you should trigger this type of flow and this type of communication to people that have not shopped with you for a long while, and this is how you set up the events. So I think there will be a lot of stuff helping and making it easier for the CRM managers at the retailers with using AI within WeAuto.
Speaker 2:Okay, that makes sense. Using AI within WeAuto Okay, that makes sense. And we also, before we got on this call, we had a conversation and we talked around the shift away from enterprise platforms. So when a client, a retailer, comes to you and says our platform is slow, it's heavy, it's not really delivering what we need, what are they actually saying to you? What do you take from that?
Speaker 3:Mostly they're saying hey, I bought this fancy-pancy platform. It promised me to do everything. It most likely can do everything, but it's so custom-built and it's so hard to understand. So every time they want to send out a campaign or an email, they need to call their IT consultant. So the total contract value actually becomes really expensive. So they have a team in place, but the team can't do anything because they need to call their external IT consultants, because it's so hard for them to work within the system. So they are really looking for a system which is a bit more modern, like Voyado, but it's also easy to use. And then going back to your question about why focusing on retail, so we have built a product with all our experience on retail, understanding the pain point for the retailers and for the people actually working within the systems. So that's why we get really good credit from customers who are actually using the system. It's very easy to understand how to use a product. You don't have to be Einstein.
Speaker 2:So, on that note, then tell us about a brand, if you can, that made the switch and saw the tangible results really quickly.
Speaker 3:We have all the examples from customers who are starting using our Elevate product, so that's a search and recommendation platform. They've seen a huge uplift in conversion without actually increasing the manpower. So it's really about using the platform in the right way could actually give great results in increasing your conversion on site.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then in terms of engage, I think People have when they start using Engage the right way and understanding how to use the CRM strategy. They have seen an uplift in, for example, how to increase the database and the fan club. That could be one example, but it also can be having the right CRM strategy so you are targeting the right customer with the right message and that actually increase the sales.
Speaker 2:Interestingly, is there a scenario, then, based on where we are now and obviously we rarely hear of SAP Hybris or SFCC implementations, but is there a scenario in your view where a big enterprise stack is the right answer, based on where we're at now?
Speaker 3:I think if you have endless resources and you don't really care how much it costs, then yes, obviously there are platforms out there enterprise platforms where you can get everything you want. With Booyahda, we are a product, so we have built a product that we believe is the best product and hence that's why it's very easy to use. But, obviously, if you can spend as much money as you want and you don't really care that implementation takes two years, then obviously there are good platforms out there. But I think we've seen a shift not only in retail, but companies need to show fast ROI and think more about profitability than just not only growth.
Speaker 2:So profitable growth is much more on everyone's radar, and that's where I think these enterprise products that you mentioned uh, they are, uh they are having a hard time yeah, and you said, growth is on everyone's radar no, I would say that today, profit is as equally important, so it's is not growth at all cost anymore yeah, okay, it feels to me and you may have felt the same, but again, I put a post out yesterday about this that retailers have kind of put pause on any kind of new development, work, um, or investment in technology and it's it's stopped them from keeping up with the consumer demand.
Speaker 3:And to me, from the conversations I have on a daily basis, it feels like that is being reversed slowly now and a lot for the retailers understanding that it has to be an ongoing iterative process to stay ahead of what the consumer demand is really yeah, I I agree with you, but I think the shift, if you compare to like five years ago, when it was like best of breed, retailers wanted like the best solution for all the pain points, I think retailers understood it's better to have one provider that can help you with different problems and that's why how we think about it is that we are trying to broaden our product within our customer experience platform. So that's why we're building retail media, we're looking at M&As, we're looking at partnership in order to help our customers have one platform instead of having different types of vendors platform instead of having different types of vendors. So I think, if you look at the development department or IT department for a retailer, that has actually decreased and they want to try to find a solution that is easy to integrate and implement.
Speaker 2:Okay, and we've already defined the 360 view, what data signals do you think still aren't being captured very well?
Speaker 3:uh, to be honest, um, I think that a lot of retailers are not working with loyalty the way they should. Uh, so I think, um, I think it's for it's really going back to basic and just not working with discounts. How should you work with your fan club? More than trying to become the best at start, go back to basic and set the crm strategy and actually invest. A lot of retailers doesn't even invest in crm team, so when they're starting using a platform, like we all are like okay, now we bought the system, it should like work for itself. No, I think you need to set a strategy before you actually buy a tool, because otherwise you just have a really good tool but not a strategy how to work with it yeah, understand business problems, create the strategy, then work out the solutions.
Speaker 2:Technology yeah, I talk about that a lot with people and it amazes me how little it doesn't happen in that order yeah, no, but uh, yeah.
Speaker 3:and and sometimes we talk to customers who are disappointed because they're like now we bought this system but we don't have any resources to work with it, and that's the wrong approach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I understand. Is there a difference in your view between, perhaps, a sportswear retailer and a fashion retailer and how they might need to use loyalty and how their 360 view of the consumer might be?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, um, it depends also what type of fashion. If you're really high end, then I think you still need to have a crm strategy, uh, which, when I sometimes talk to companies, it might be high fashion. They're like no, we should not use a system like Voyado because we don't want to spam our consumers, but they still need to talk to their consumer. It might be that they are targeting them with, like, okay, now we have this new I lost the word in English but we have new clothing coming in and you get to see them first before everyone else. It's still about loyalty. So I think you need to have a strategy in place, but I think you need to communicate with your audience or your consumers differently, depending on who you are. And even though, if you're selling sports apparel, depending on who you are, and even though, if you're selling sport, sports apparel, depending on where you are, if it's, uh, if it's more um, low, low end or mid-end or high end, that that really sets the scene on on how to communicate.
Speaker 2:I would say it does and you make make the point about communicating with the audience. I always think of rolls royce when I have this kind of conversation, because I've never seen an advert for Rolls-Royce. But they released their results a couple of weeks ago and they're doing better than ever. They're not having problems selling their product. I can only assume I'm not their target audience, right, but they have got a strategy in place where they're very subtly having conversations and engaging with their audience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and they're probably doing, most likely not doing, the same way as I don't know H&M is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd imagine not. Who is doing this well? Which retailers are doing this really well in your view at the moment.
Speaker 3:Well, I love a customer of ours in the Netherlands who is called Love Stories and they sell lingeries. And the way they communicate and the way they engage their consumers I think is is impressing, and the way they have developed throughout the Voyage journey is also impressive. They have increased their their membership base by over 22% and the way they speak depending on where you are in the customer journey and the kind of messages that you get I think is amazing, and also the engagement around the brands is also fascinating. So that's a small brand where the e-commerce manager her name is Claudia and I always get impressed when I hear her talking about how they work with. Where the e-commerce manager her name is Claudia, and I always get impressed when I hear her talking about how they work with their fan club.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Okay, so what for me is really interesting to understand is what KPIs really prove to you that the whole online to offline insight is working really prove to you that the whole online to offline insight is working.
Speaker 3:But I think I can't give you one answer. Like, for example, we had this Danish fashion brand. They wanted to, they set the strategy and they said we want to sell less on discount and that was really important for them because of their gross margin and because they didn't want to sell too much on discounts because they were more of a upper mid-segment in terms of pricing point. So I think it goes back to the strategy. So, depending what you want to improve on, so it could be an important one could be less items sold on discount, it could be just to increase your average order value. So that's why I don't really can't give you one answer. It really depends on your own strategy. Or it could be just like the first one could be increase your database, because a lot of retailers don't really have a database because they've never worked with collecting emails and approvals from the consumers. So that could be the first step building up a database that you then can communicate with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, makes sense. So let me ask a different question what's the hardest in-between touch points measure?
Speaker 3:No, that could probably be having returning customers, because if you invest so much in getting the consumer to go into your site, so when they've actually come in and when they've actually done a purchase, make sure that they come back and come back frequently. I would say that that's the hardest, because then you build true loyalty, if you have consumers just coming back by themselves.
Speaker 2:Okay, and when we're talking about growth brands, what daily order volume? Do you think the point? Emails start to creak.
Speaker 3:So we always advise our average customer to send one email a week. Then we have some that sends a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more and they've actually proven that that works. But that is our average suggestion to send an email a week to your consumer.
Speaker 2:Okay, and the strategy is around different, like we discussed, different ways to engage with them and understanding at what point you think they are in the journey of potentially purchasing whatever product it is that your client's offering.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, depending on who you are, where you're born in the past, so really understanding what's the next coming intent for the consumer. But I also we work a lot with text messages and we see or our customers see that we know that it's much more expensive to send text messages than to send emails. But the conversion from text messages is extremely high and especially if you want to get consumers into the stores, we've seen that that conversion, if you send out the text messages, the conversion to getting people consumers into the stores is much higher than an email. So I know it's a larger investment, but the's who's using the text messages um, wisely, actually see a great result from that okay, and how do you guys keep the user experience simple when there's a huge amount of complexity behind the scenes?
Speaker 3:um, I think we just invest a lot of it into it. We ask our customers both during when we're building it, and also to get feedback if it's beta or when it's live. So we put a lot of time and effort in trying to make it as easy as possible. Yes, it is complex and our product is getting broader and broader, but we always try to go back and staying true to what we've said from the beginning that we ought to be user-friendly. So, getting feedback and then actually taking that feedback, and again, if we were to cater different types of industries, I think the feedback would have been a lot broader and it would be harder to please everyone. So, for example, the way you work with awards or points and the way you work with loyalty is very different depending on on on on sector, and also how you work in a system is different.
Speaker 2:So I think that also makes it easier for us to have a user-friendly product okay, and we've we talked previously about, uh, some of your clients and potential clients being on smaller, less mature platforms, and we talked about the point at which they need to step up. So what is the point? What would you say? Is the point where the retailer realizes it's time to graduate effectively? And what's the? Is there a telltale metric, that kind of signals that?
Speaker 3:um, I think, like you mean, like smaller retailers understand they need to invest more and sort of scale up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they need to scale up. They may be on a platform, which is OK, but it's not going to help them increase their GMV, for example, to the level that they want to.
Speaker 3:I think the easiest example is that today there are a lot of retailers that starts online, but from my perspective, there are very, very few examples where you can manage that growth being purely online. So eventually a lot of retailers that started online start to have physical stores. It could be a showroom, it could be just a couple of stores, but still they start being present both offline and online. And when you do that, that's when retailers understand that the current solution they're using does not cater for being offline and offline, and that's when they understand we need to start looking at a system like voyado who can help us being on on both uh, online and offline yeah, that's even more important, I think, uh, in the coming years.
Speaker 2:So I don't know about sweden, but in the uk our high streets uh, a lot of the shops disappeared over the course of the past decade. Really. We're starting to see the high street rebuild, but it's coming back in a different way and I think what we're going to start to see is companies which have either purely online or predominantly online presence start to have more experienced stores in the high, because that's what we, I think we've all realized we actually quite like to go and look at things and touch things and socialize and go for a coffee or a drink or whatever while you're doing it.
Speaker 3:Um, so that's going to become even more important, I'd imagine, for any retailer I think so too, and I think I don't know if you're going to ask that, but how AI is going to affect the retailers. I think, even though e-com has existed for a while now, it's not that the physical stores have disappeared. You still want to get inspired and even though, in the future, if we have chatbots making all the purchase for us, I don't think that's going to be the case, that it does 100%, because you still want to be inspired. You want to go into a physical store, meet other people, being able to get uh, try it on and see it, and or being online and scrolling and being inspired online. So I think we're not going to see that disappear in the future either, because I think we, as a human being, like being inspired, either online or offline I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2:I think, actually, from a male point of view, ai might be helpful to at least whittle down the options in the shop and go here are five different pairs of shorts. Just have a look at those. Save us having to walk around the shop and have a look.
Speaker 3:I agree, but the thing that it might not understand is that, okay, this is how I used to, this is the wardrobe that I used to like, but now I want to try something new, and then it's really hard for an ai to know. Is okay, is tim now looking for something new, being inspired of a new type of shorts, or is it the the old tim who wants to get everything, get advice on everything, based on everything that he's bought in the past?
Speaker 2:yeah, agreed be interesting to see how that plays out yeah um, in terms of voyado, voyado being a beloved partner, we talked about that, didn't we? We talked about that is one of the key strategies for you guys, and the software part is potentially the easy part and obviously people are a little bit harder sometimes to to bring on board and take on that journey. How does voyado bake, uh, ongoing enablement into the contract?
Speaker 3:no. So, um, I think like taking a step back. Um, a lot of product companies uh, they focus a lot on scalability, so it's all about having the best product, and then you forget about all the services. So we invest a lot in the all the fluffiness around it. So, uh, for example, you get this crm oh sorry, a customer success partner that really holds your hand, uh, free of charge, helping you with setting the strategy in place and then making sure that you're actually executing on it and following up. If we see KPIs not being performing, we try to help customers in how to improve those. We have a support that has over 99% in CSAT, so Customer Satisfaction Score, and I get super happy when I meet customers who are talking about Marlin at the support or actually naming people in our works and within our support or customer success, because they get help that they've never experienced before. So we try to invest a lot in those types of services.
Speaker 2:And I think that's really, really positive, because I don't think that is necessarily always happening. It's nice to have someone to help support you both through the implementation and the ongoing BAU and making sure you're getting the most out of the product. Is there a time when you've rescued a kind of a faltering implementation that you can share, and perhaps what you've learned from it?
Speaker 3:An implementation that went wrong at Muyado or with someone else?
Speaker 2:With another client that you've had to pick up and carry them through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that happens quite a lot. It happens that, for example, we have a customer who has signed with another vendor and they've never been able to go live, and then they're like, okay, now I was going to swear, but I'm not. So they say like, let's leave it at this, can you help us? I actually am talking to a customer now who is doing a replatforming and that vendor is not delivering at all, so they're just asking us for help. Now, can you help us? We need to get live.
Speaker 3:Black Week, as you know, is coming up soon, so everything that is done needs to be done now, now, now. So there are a lot of examples when you're just stuck in an implementation and I think, obviously, there are a lot of people that you can blame, but I think you need to go back to yourself and say what was the scope of the project? I think a lot of retailers want to do everything, but try to narrow down the scope. What can we go in now, what is needed now, and then build from that, instead of having everything down at the same time yeah, yeah, that seems sensible and makes sense.
Speaker 2:We we touched on ai and I've got a couple of questions that I would like we can couldn't possibly do a podcast in 2025 and not talk about AI. But from your perspective, there's loads and loads of hype, there's loads of potential ways to leverage AI within retail and within commerce, but what do you think is actually deployable in the next 6 to 12 months, realistically?
Speaker 3:in the next six to 12 months. Realistically, I think a retailer needs to start thinking about okay, where do I get the greatest ROI and focus from there? So, for example, like Voyado, our product sits on a large database, which makes it easy and more natural to actually use the approach of Gen AI. And, having that in mind, ai, gen AI needs to have a lot of data in order to work. So start thinking about which of the products actually is feedable, because retail has a lot of data. So how can I use all that data and then put an AI approach on top of it and not starting with a workflow?
Speaker 3:You want to try to increase the revenue, because there are a lot of different use cases depending on what you want to do. I think everyone is just running around and saying we need to work with AI and not really understanding where to focus on. Take a couple of one to five use cases and try to solve them bit by bit instead of doing it everywhere. But what I'm trying to do at Boyado is really getting everyone to understand that, as an employee, taking the advantage if you work for someone who wants to implement AI, because at your next job that will be required. So really taking the chance now to get educated within AI and if if your employer is is trying to help you improve there, take that chance yeah, I mean getting educated in AI.
Speaker 2:I think is pretty hard at the moment because it changes so dramatically. But it goes back to the basics we talked about, which is start with the business problems. What are the problems?
Speaker 3:And do you have enough data to feed and work with AI?
Speaker 2:How will loyalty programs morph in the next few years in your view, Because they're fundamental to a lot of what we've talked about?
Speaker 3:yeah, um, I think, uh, as I mentioned before, I think, uh, some retailers haven't even started their loyalty journey. Um, I think, if you look at a lot of our competitors, I think there are not many that actually have loyalty within their platform. So they actually have their platform and they buy loyalty from the side and try to integrate it, but all our functionalities are loyalty is embedded. That's where we come from. It. That's where we come from. So I think, um, the starting point is is getting all retailers to understand that it is super important and invest in in that, um, functionalities and also resources, in order to set a strategy. It needs to become um a strategic, uh, um agenda point.
Speaker 2:And is there, in your view, one technology that is kind of at the moment under the radar or not well utilized that you think physical retailers should really start to focus on right now? Was I giving away too many secrets?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, and that is not loyalty, but looking at like, for example, retail media that I talked about before is not applicable for everyone, but if you are a reseller of other brands you're most likely suffering from thin margins and at least in the nordics we we have not come as far as us and uk.
Speaker 3:So what we're trying now to introduce is retail media so reseller can actually send a sell ad space on their site. So if you're selling shoes, for example, you're selling Nike and Adidas then you can with our retail media product you can start like a bidding process so you're actually selling advertising on your site. So Nike might say we're paying X amount of dollars in order to be ranked higher. If the consumer is searching for shoes, then it's like Google search and being paid search. So having that on site could actually boost both revenue and then profit, because it's 100% profit margin for a reseller. So those types of tricks will be needed for retailers in order to survive, because we all know it's a tough world out there and retailers and resellers need to find different types of revenue streams.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Okay. We've covered quite a lot of ground, which is great. If you look ahead five years, I know that's hard. What, in your view, does success look like for a mid-market fashion brand using Foyado?
Speaker 3:So, as I mentioned before and this is probably my famous last word is that I think in the future, consumers will still want to have great product and great services, still want to have great product and great services. So I think if you stay true to that, then retailers will still have loyal customers, because I think if you give that promise to the consumers that you're delivering great product and great consumers, then you should be able to have your loyal customers. So I think, in this sort of crazy environment that we're in, uh, I think it's really important for retailers to keep that um, uh promise to the consumers that they are still going to to provide that. Uh, no matter if it is online, offline or wherever, and depending on who you are, you should get that experience to your consumers and stay true to your consumers.
Speaker 2:And we've got probably quite a lot of listeners who may be potential clients, so they could be retailers in that B2C space. What's the first small step they could take?
Speaker 3:uh, if they wanted to, to try and test boyado's approach um, so, uh, it's not like you can actually try boyado like a demo on site and then so you need actually to implement it because so it is an investment. But I think, if you, if you want to start understanding more uh, it's, it's uh take a meeting you can. You can call me uh or you can call um. Many people, great people, we ought to understand more of of our product, uh. But I think, fundamentally, understanding uh and setting a strategy on how to work with engaging your customers is the first step, and then I'm happy to explain how we could actually do that with our products Elevate and Engage.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Well, thank you very much. We have covered a huge amount of ground. There's been some really great insight much. We have covered a huge amount of ground. There's been some really great insight and, like I said to you before, um, the podcasts for me are really good, because I tend to learn a huge amount, um, and I certainly have, uh, during the last hour. So thank you very much for your time. It's really appreciated thank you thank you.
