Boundaries Broken (Part 2): How Manipulative Leaders Can Target Empathetic Women

It’s not always the loud ones you need to watch out for. Sometimes the most dangerous people at work are the ones who seem like allies.

In this episode, I explore the common personality traits of people most likely to groom in corporate environments—and why so many women miss the signs.

We’ll cover: – What makes certain personalities more likely to groom – How they gain trust, connection, and silence – What makes you (and others) vulnerable to their tactics – How to spot and protect yourself early

This is Part 2 of my Boundaries Broken series—focused on the psychology behind grooming and power abuse at work.

🛠️ Download the free Spot Workplace Grooming (Free Guide + Checklist) here.

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⚠️ Disclaimer:   This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or psychological advice. Any stories, examples, or scenarios discussed are illustrative and may be composites or anonymised accounts. They do not refer to any specific individual, client, workplace, or organisation. 

Transcript

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Michelle Kevill: 0:37

Hello, my corporate survivalists. How are you welcome to today's episode? So this is the second episode in my three part series called boundaries broken, the impact of grooming and how to rebuild. Okay, so in my first episode, I gave you an overview of what workplace grooming was, the most common misconception around it, the most 10 important signs and symptoms to be looking out of out for, including the cycle of grooming and abuse. And I will mention it all throughout this podcast, is I do have a worksheet that goes into all of that in more detail, including common phrases and sayings that may be used that I just wasn't able to put into that whole episode to get that, make sure to head to the show notes, or head to my Instagram, Tiktok, and that's where you'll be able to download it. Okay, so in this episode, we're going to explore the key personality trait and behavioral patterns that often show up in people who use grooming tactics in corporate environments. This is to help you not only understand the why and the psychology, but also be more informed on what to possibly look out for. So I started with the original episode, which showed you those signs and symptoms. Now we're going to go into a key personality trait, some common misconceptions around that some parental dynamics that get unconsciously played out, and most importantly, what can make you a target to grooming? And no, it is not what you think. So before I get started, a disclaimer, what I'm sharing today is based on commonly observed patterns within the research and reported as part of grooming. These are general observations about workplace dynamics. And this is not a clinical diagnosis. Again, I'm not a licensed therapist or psychologist. This is not in reference to any person or company. The goal of this is for education and awareness. Okay, now we can get into it. Look, you know, in episode one that a person who may be grooming you, typically, what you observe is that they are using their position of power. They are very charming, lovely people who, again, may be using their position of power to exploit you under calculated actions to get whatever it is that they need from you. Now, out of all the research, there is one and most common type of personality trait that does this that I want to get into today, and that is called a covert narcissist. So let's get into what narcissism is, because, in essence, it is a person that can have an inflated sense of self importance, self centeredness, and they lack empathy. The most common misconception that is told around narcissism is that they are absolutely in love with themselves, and they think that they are the absolute best. Narcissism actually comes from the Greek myth and story around Narcissus, who rejected everyone, and then they got a spell put on them to fall in love with themselves, and then they, like, fell into the river and drowned. But funny enough, the opposite is actually true for people who may be narcissistic, the reason they are acting this way is it's because it comes from a place of extreme, deep insecurity, because they constantly need admiration from others to feel safe and secure. Covert narcissists specifically do extremely well in corporate environments, because they are highly driven, they are very charismatic. They need to please, but they do it strategically. They can have a very good reputation. Now you might be thinking, Wait, what is a covert narcissist? Well, there are actually differences when it comes to narcissism. There's two different main types. And if I'm honest, if you go into the research, there's so many more, but I'm just going to give you like the high level, there's something called, called an overt narcissist. This is someone who think of the narcissism, that self centeredness, the arrogance, it's all on display. It's all shown. You can see these people from a mile away, and because of that, they wouldn't be as dangerous in if they were to be grooming you. The reason I say that is because it's going to be much more obvious if a person who was an overt narcissist was grooming you, because you would likely be able to see how they are treating you very differently to everyone else. The difference between an overt and a covert narcissist is a covert is actually hiding all those traits under the guise of vulnerability. They are also called vulnerable narcissists. So if an overt narcissist. Artist is just wearing like they're hiding their insecurity with arrogance, with showing off, with grandeur. A covert narcissist, instead, is using crocodile tears. They are trying to make you feel sorry for them. They're trying to induce guilt. Remember how in the first episode, I was talking about mirroring. Well, a covert narcissist is brilliant at mirroring and being able to be your friend and work out the certain types of traits or things to necessarily be pulling on. And this is why I wanted to start with all the signs and symptoms. Basically, this is what you should be looking out for. But then, like a key question is, well, who is doing this? Now, does every covert narcissist or person you think is a narcissist going to be grooming you? Not necessarily. But again, this is just to look for some common traits. You also might be thinking, Oh, my God, everyone says that everyone is a narcissist. Well, funny enough, yes, from the research, only 2% of the population are narcissists. However, it's possible that this number actually may be higher. The reason being is that narcissism, well, self reported narcissism, is a little bit challenging because of the nature of this personality trait, they aren't necessarily going to be always as introspective and be able to showcase that, yes, I am a narcissist, but also brilliant at hiding within everyone else, but also within themselves. So there is a lack of self awareness and therefore likely a lack of reporting. And they work extremely well in these corporate environments. So what could make a covert narcissist more dangerous, then and link like, why is this linked to grooming? Well, here is a challenge, because of the very nature of this personality trait. In essence, they lack empathy and they have an inflated ego. Therefore it's possible that they typically see others as objects. They could come off as a friend that cares. But actually they are ultimately using you. As long as you remain valuable to them, and as long as you meet their needs and regulate them, then you are of usefulness to the covert narcissist. And the reason I say it is possibly dangerous is because, one, there is a complete sense of friendliness. There's all the, you know, signs and symptoms that I'm talking about, that emotional attachment, but because a lack at empathy, possibly see you as an object, some harmful workplace dynamics can eventually evolve, including situations that may lead to serious violations, such as unwanted, emotional, physical or sexual abuse. You might be thinking, hang on a minute. Why even risk that if, say, even if you were, say, a self aware person that Grooms and is a predator, why would you even risk doing something like that within your workplace? Well, it's partly to do with power and control, but mostly linked to their ego. Why I keep homing in on the inflated sense of self and ego and lack of empathy and really highlighting how they see you as an object. What I mean by that? Because even myself, I don't I never understood. What do you mean? Probably because I even treat my objects to an extent with like care and respect. But think of you being like a really trusty umbrella. You know, you always work really well. You're always in the backpack. You're working great. But are you like asking the umbrella beforehand, if, like, you're okay to be used on a certain day? Are you making sure it's like, super dry? Are you just like growing it in, like the laundry to dry out? That's what I mean. They are seeing you as an object to fulfill their needs, and over time, if that person is trying to groom you, then they will be slowly pushing the boundaries, leading to some of the things that I was talking about before. I'd also be thinking, oh my god, Michelle, no, this person is a psychopath. And actually, funny enough, there is a key difference between a psychopath and aspects of narcissism, whilst they both share and touch on each other, the biggest difference is actually image from the literature. Most psychopaths aren't the best at holding down a job because they have a such a need purely for desire, sorry, desire for power and control. Whereas a narcissist, as I said to you before, there is a deep insecurity, and they are acting this way to fulfill that ego and to mask that insecurity. Your job is to feel that emotional need, which I'm going to go into, like way more detail to prove. What in, like, really high essence, from every on, all the research that I've done on this, they don't see you the way you see them. They do not see you as an autonomous human. They actually believe, to an extent, that everyone is out to get them. There is a level of paranoia, and everyone operates the same way everyone is going to hurt them at some point, and they are going to be discarded, and you're going to discard them a bit of a like a dog eat dog world. And this is why they can hide so well in the corporate environment, because they are mirroring other people. They are like within corporate it is, look, I do talk about this in my episodes around you know, getting noticed and how to talk about your brand and stuff like that. They are the ones that are like shouting from the rooftop, so to speak, and really showcasing their work. And they get to these high positions of power, and they may if they are grooming or hurting people in this way, again, they're hiding behind this professionalism. And now you might be thinking, but Michelle, I don't understand. How could a person have such an inflated sense of ego and a lack of empathy that they could possibly decide to groom someone and do something like this? Like I did say before, yes, there is a level of like. Again, they cross over a little bit with like a psychopath. There is a desire for power and control, fulfilling their needs, etc. But you might be thinking, someone isn't just born this way. Surely. How did they become this way? Well, some people say that narcissism is genetic and that there could be a predisposition for it, but typically, it starts in childhood. Usually they have grown up in an environment where there was at least one narcissistic parent placing really high expectations on the child. And most narcissists, or like the narcissist, who is like a parent, they see their children as extensions of themselves, again as objects. So the issue with this is the child doesn't develop, or they may not develop a sense of self or identity. They are always performing and wearing a mask and trying to make their caregivers happy. They learn very quickly that love is conditional, and they have a deep rooted sense of shame, of who they are, within themselves. Because of this, they grow up operating in a way that someone is going to hurt them at some point, like their parents did, and then they will take people possibly through the same cycle as abuse, as what they went through. They are really just reliving that trauma. Now, I know some of you listening here are some wholesome, sweet people and might immediately be feeling bad, and I want you to not okay. I will get to this in a second. The reason I don't want you to feel bad and believe that these people can change is because, due to the nature of this personality trait or disorder, this can be like, it's not your job to go in and save them, and if anything, if you were to try do this, and I will actually get into this in my next episode, as well around everything that you're going through, if you find yourself in this position, or you're in this realization and What to do next, I ultimately you need to be taking care of yourself and looking out for your needs. And I will say it again, a person like this who has some narcissistic traits are likely going to lack empathy and have an inflated sense of ego, and they're also a very good talker, so trying to go in and save them isn't necessarily going to help. They're likely going to tell you what you want to hear, and then it's going to lead into a whole heap of other things as well. End up getting stuck in the same cycle of abuse. Now, where do you fit into all of this? Right? Because, like, how come you're, you know again, maybe you're listening and like, Oh, I'm stuck in this again. Yay, fantastic. Well, here's the thing, you very likely had a somewhat similar childhood to that of the covert narcissist. However, you both chose different roots, and I'm going to tell you a story that my dad actually told me when I was a kid, and this was when I was trying to raise when I was growing up, also being neurodivergent, I didn't understand why people did certain things, and I couldn't really articulate it very well. I remember I was like six at the time, and it's the reason why I'm also doing, you know this episode, and showcasing this. A lot of women and people like me like to know the why behind what's why? Why people do these things, really? And the story basically goes that my dad said to me, two brothers walk into a bar. One gets extremely drunk, the other is completely sober. The bartender goes to both of them, the First Men that's drunk, you know. Why are you doing this? Why are you like this? And he said. Is it's because my father used to drink. He goes to the other brother who is like, sober, totally fine. Like, why aren't you drinking? And he goes, it's because my father used to drink. Two brothers, same environment, two different routes and options. When you were going through possibly the same thing as a narcissist, you chose the empathetic root, ie, you gave up your ego to likely care for everyone else. You figured out the way to navigate this situation is to ignore your own needs. Likely become parentified. You gave like you literally gave up your ego. You took care of everyone else. That's likely also why you're listening to my podcast. Because you're doing the same thing at work. You're very likely at work mom and you're taking care of everyone else. However, a covert narcissist, they chose the opposite path. They gave up their empathy, and they focused on their ego, focusing on taking care of themselves, knowing that they cannot rely on anyone. Both of you, to an extent, you don't actually rely on anyone, but one is very empathetic, probably at times too empathetic, and putting their needs before anyone else. The other really does need some more empathy. So how do you two then fit into each other? Right? Like maybe you're listening and thinking, Oh, my God, am I in this? Is this happening to me? How did this actually happen? Or maybe this is something that I'm going to share with you to look out for, because you know that you're a very empathetic person, etc. And I'm actually going to be taking this, I'm going to be summering really high level Sam barkins book on narcissism. And I actually think it's one of the best explanations of like narcissism and the interaction between a covert narcissist and other people and specifically what they're doing. And it's something called the dual mothership model. Again, you're two sides of the same coin. And funny enough, if you either if you aren't working on I'm gonna call your abandonment wounds and the all the trauma that you've gone on, you subconsciously actually attract each other. And I'm gonna go into second around, you know, what makes your target and stuff like that, and why it isn't a bad thing. But a lot of women that I coach will come to me, and then it's so funny, we just go, like, a little bit deep, and it's like, yeah, here's this, like, root thought that you've learned deeply when you're a child, and you're just replaying in these certain environments here. So if I go into it around the dual mothership, mothership model, like, again, I'm going, I'm deep, diving into all of this. They didn't have like a COVID. Nurses did not have a great childhood. They do not have a sense of self again, also why they're mirroring other people they are. They don't. That's literally just what they did when they was a kid, to meet their parental or the people in their lives needs. So what they're doing is they are likely subconsciously seeking a new parental figure that is going to heal them and again, this is why you may attract these types of people in your life, whether it's at work or in relationships, either or you are used to doing a lot of emotional labor, you are parentified. Again, you're also trying to heal your own abandonment wounds, likely by healing others by being the mother or father that you never had. So what can happen is you develop this parent child dynamic with the covert narcissist. You are giving and receiving the love that you and they never had. And this is why, as part of the grooming, if a person is grooming you, and again, that trait that I'm sharing here, that I do believe that there has to be a level of narcissism involved to be able to blur the boundaries and go against someone's own personal violations. But again, this is why it needs to be blurred so that you can be playing this out at a much deeper level. This love you receive from them is like it mirrors you perfectly because they are mimicking your personality, your empathy, your values, your emotional traits, you may feel very, very seen, especially if you are the type of person that is usually like over caring for others, if you are the work mom within the team. But something I will touch on for a little bit is that, again, COVID narcissists deeply insecure. They are looking to others to heal them, to make them feel validated, to make them feel like enough. That's why they're, you know, maybe doing all these things and expecting certain levels of praise, etc. What they will look for is, again, someone that's going to heal them. And this is called narcissistic supply. And they'll have, like, apparently, from the research, they have lots of these throughout their life. They have basically lots of people who are. Giving them what they can't give themselves, that sense of self worth, that sense of Yes, I am enough. They are getting that through other people, and they will typically have one or two very intense like pieces of pieces of supply, like basically that that mother or father figure, that parental figure, that is going to heal them. The problem is so they find this person, right? Let's say they find you, and it's absolutely perfect. It's amazing. You are that trusty umbrella. You are absolutely fantastic. However, nothing changes for them. Their wounds, their pain is still there, their sense of self that hasn't developed, and this is where the devaluation and discard can begin, because ultimately they fear abandonment. They they they actually end up like self sabotaging because they deeply believe that everyone is like them and everyone is going to manipulate them. They also deeply hate that you love the mask that they are showing and not the real them, which they don't even know what that is, and what that what they think that is, is like. They absolutely hate it. Why they are copying other people? Because they are desperately insecure. They are, in essence, trying to leech or absorb that good from you, that authenticity, like, how are you existing as you in the world and not getting hurt? They just replay some of the deepest, darkest parts of these inner wounds. And this is why, if you are either discarded by the covert narcissist or for whatever reason, go no contact. The Grief can be so painful, and that is because they were a perfect mirror to you. You felt seen. You aren't mourning the loss of them. You are mourning the loss of yourself and the abandonment of what feels like a child and a parent. Know what you're thinking, oh my god, Michelle, this is too this is so deep for corporate but I'm telling you, you do not realize, even at like, surface level things when it comes to presentations or corporate politics, whatever, a lot of the like parental stuff that just comes out, if you really just look through the layers of all Your thoughts and feelings. And the problem is, this is what makes you a target. Because if you are the person I think you are, you're probably listening to this and feeling, oh my god, you feel terrible for this other person, and they don't realize this, and then you need to go in and save them. I am going to tell you this really clearly right now if you think you might be in this situation. One, that's not your job. These people are adults too. They are to a level. Possibly there's, there's a subconsciousness to them, like being manipulative, because, again, that's just how they they know how to be. But there is some consciousness to the manipulation and grooming tactics that are possibly being used again, if you think you're like in this, these are possibly like. These are children stuck in adult bodies, high ego, lack empathy, that can very possibly be a dangerous situation for you to be in. Okay, I don't and I'm really honing in on this, as we see this all the time, in romantic relationships, a person wants to go back. They want to talk about it. They want to reconnect. Well, one, that's part of the trauma bond that has been built over time, the highs and the lows. And secondly, they are going like, you can't know if what they're saying is actually the truth, if they actually are deeply going to be doing the work to change. As I did this research on narcissism, one of the most common things I saw in romantic relationships was elder partners or everyone saying, can these people change because they want to be with them? They want them to have that wholesome relationship? And there are some people out there who even, funny enough, they're on the research that I was looking at like a lot of people who wrote these books were actually self like they were diagnosed narcissists. Challenge with this personality trait is to have that level of self awareness can be challenging, and they are very good at manipulating so you cannot trust what they are going to say, especially in a corporate environment that is not your job. They do not likely see you the way you see them, and as an as an autonomous human being with your own thoughts, needs, desires, you know, things that change, like that just has not developed. They are literally all throughout the literature. It's they are stunted children. And the problem with a stunted child and adult body is that they could, if they are grooming you do something dangerous, like I said before, with the blurring of the boundaries and possibly leading to those harmful workplace dynamics and things like abuse. Does that mean every covert narcissist or person that you think is. Narcissist at work is going to do this to you. No what I'm talking about, however, when it comes to a person that is grooming you, are these, the common traits and patterns and like psychology behind this, yes, and that is why I'm highlighting it to you, just so you are aware, in case you are one already in it now, or think you might be in it now and trying to understand everything or two, God forbid it ever does happen, you at least are aware and know who you are actually dealing with, and can make an informed decision from there. Okay, now I'm going to go into what makes you a target. Now, if a person is grooming you, they are likely going to look for someone that is younger and actually in a lower position. Again, they like and enjoy power games and feeling in control. Now you might be thinking, hang on a minute. Wouldn't a person target someone that is, like, super quiet, shy, like easily manipulated? Well, funny thing is, some covert narcissists and people who are groomers actually enjoy a challenge, and they can, typically, they will go after a confident, young and neuro neuro divergent person with some insecurities, which they will bring up. Reason being is, again, they're trying to find someone who's going to heal them. So they're looking for those good qualities. But another thing is, if you are neurodivergent, you may not be picking up on all these signs from the literature. It also says that they are extremely paranoid and threatened by people like, how can you just go existing in the world, being just authentically yourself without trying the need to manipulate others. In essence, it can be like they are leeching from you, and this will be done very slowly over a number of like, weeks, months, years, slowly blurring the boundaries, slowly, like gradually increasing those insecurities within you. Again, you become more relying on them. We talked about this before, around the abuse cycle, but ultimately, what is making you a target is again, you're going to be having like I told you the story about the alcohol, right? You guys likely both had the same environment. You are a hyper caring person. You have hidden abandonment wounds. You are very likely known as the work mom, and that actually makes you perfect, because you will like you want to make people feel better, you will likely give in to the pity traps I was talking about when they are venting. You are the person that will be like, probably their main source of narcissistic supply, because you build them back up and feed their ego, and that is great, because that is exactly what they want. The problem is, as you know, they're like, this is fantastic. This is a person that's going to heal me. I don't believe they're doing it on a conscious level. That's more on a subconscious level, but again, you're not an umbrella. Sometimes you don't want to go out in the rain or something like that. Like you have your own, like, you're not the perfect thing that is going to fix them. And then over time, that starts to change. And there's the devaluation, etc, and the reconciliation you're going through, possibly that. And then it's possible. Again, harmful workplace dynamics keep happening. They keep pushing the boundaries, like, keep pushing the boundaries where, again, like I said, physical, emotional, all that stuff can come into play. So this was a very high level. Like, there is so much more I can go into. And I would strongly suggest heading over to my tick tocks, where I'll be talking about this in more detail, about COVID narcissism. I personally find it absolutely fascinating. And again, I know you very likely, if you feel you're in this or whatever you might be thinking, I feel so sorry for this person. I i The reason I don't want you like you can feel sorry for that person and still not give up your whole self to, like, fix them like, you know, not run in front of a bus to fix this person. Okay, you need to also be protecting yourself. And again, the thing about this is, whilst, yes, some of this is unconscious, some of the manipulating, etc, is conscious, there is a belief that everyone is out to get them, and you use the manipulate like you're you know, are you also manipulating them? There's all of that place playing out. But in essence, now you know, now you know, one of the most common personality traits behind all of this, because for I do believe for someone to be able to groom they likely need to have some form of narcissistic trait. Specifically, one example I gave that is really common and pops up within the corporate world is something like covert narcissism, a common misconception. You know that, like narcissists, that's the opposite. They don't, they don't. It's not that they love themselves, it's the opposite. It's that they absolutely hate themselves, so they have to almost show off and with COVID. Narcissist. It's more crocodile tears. It's more using vulnerable tactics to make you, I guess you could say emotionally attached to them. Also possibly, if we go even deeper as to like, why this tactic likely playing out, My God, various parental dynamics. One of them that we went through is the dual mothership model and showing how those those two play out. And now you know what can possibly make you a target, which is basically you being extremely empathetic. And again, this isn't a bad thing, all right, these are actually things that are like super good in corporate. But yes, there are people out there who could potentially see that as a weakness or vulnerability or use that to feed their own ego. Now in the next episode, I am going to tell you exactly what you need to do with all these and like, maybe you're in this position where you're hearing this, you're like, I'm in this. What do I do next? What if the boundaries and those workplace dynamics have crossed a line. I'm going to tell you the exact steps for you to feel more empowered and to take going to move forward. And I think the perfect thing that I put this at the end here, one thing that I do want to say that if you are stuck in this and you feel sorry, etc, and stuff like that, it's very common, and that's just all part of all the, you know, the emotions and all of that. And I want to say this. This is a saying that, like I saw recently, emotionally, I wanted to stay intellectually. I wanted to leave as always, I seem to enjoy punishing myself. You know intellectually about who this person may you know about who a person who grooms who they are, etc, if you have formed a bond with them, yes, emotionally, you are going to want to stay there. Is going to be that push and pull, but ultimately, at the end of the day, you need to also look out for you. You need to keep yourself safe. Okay, all right. So in the next episode, we are going to talk more about that and how you can feel more empowered. I will see you in the next two weeks. Bye.