Is My Boss Toxic? How to Tell and What to Do

Not every difficult boss is toxic—and not every toxic boss is obvious.

In this episode, we break down the 4 types of bosses (including the manipulative kind that hides behind praise), how to spot emotional volatility and blurred boundaries, and why neurodivergent women often sense the red flags first but second-guess themselves.

You’ll learn:

•   The difference between tough, toxic, and manipulative
•   How to use emotional patterns—not moments—to assess safety
•   What to do next (stay or leave) without shame
•   Why doing the inner work protects you from repeating the cycle

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⚠️ Disclaimer:   This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or psychological advice. Any stories, examples, or scenarios discussed are illustrative and may be composites or anonymised accounts. They do not refer to any specific individual, client, workplace, or organisation. 

Transcript

Michelle Kevill: 0:37

Hello, my corporate survivalists. How are we? I am very excited for this episode. I think I say that almost every episode, but I'm three quarters of the way through, and I am planning all my posts. I'm getting a few new people enrolling, and things are just going along. And I'm just getting really excited to release all of these, and today I want to talk about something that I feel rarely gets addressed honestly and properly, not just in the corporate world, but outside that as well. And that is what happens when your boss is actually the problem, not just annoying or hard to work with, but someone whose leadership style is actually damaging your confidence, your energy and maybe your sense of self at work, because in this episode, we are talking about toxic bosses, and I have been meaning to discuss this in way more detail, because not every challenging boss is toxic, and not every toxic one is some sort of mass manipulator, But in the corporate world and on Tiktok, it often lacks the nuance to differentiate the two and the grain between, because what I find in any research around this is that we either tend to label people as either really great leaders, like we have good examples of what a good leader is, or a very toxic mass manipulator, and I feel this binary does way more harm than good, for the reason being that sometimes you know that toxic boss is actually just a difficult manager, and they're simply being blunt under pressure, lacking some people skills, whereas maybe someone a bit more toxic is bringing consistent chaos, emotional volatility, an environment that keeps you in a state of confusion or walking on eggshells, and it's happening to multiple people and a boss that is more manipulative. I'm talking about the like. Think of dark psychology. Think of covert narcissists that is a whole completely different game, because they may start off as really great, and they may move on to difficult and toxic, and what is setting them apart is a pattern of more calculated manipulation and control. Because, like, what is the difference between someone who is toxic versus having a bad day or someone that is trying to set you up for more ie grooming or manipulation? And the key really is in patterns, not in one off comments or moves, but repeated behaviors over time. Now I have touched on this many times before, in my broken boundaries episode, my office politics, my feedbacks episodes, but what I've never really done is put this in a very holistic way that shows you what the spectrum of a good versus bad boss is, because, to be really honest, there's no clear map for this. All I find are extremes. I was talking about this before, full blown personality disorders or model leaders. Nothing in the gray. And if I'm honest, it's the gray, which is where most managers live, but what I see all the time is either discussions of a great leader or immediately that boss is bad and you should quit your job. So the goal of today's episode is to really sharpen your That's right, discernment, if you're new here, that is 100% what I'm trying to build in all my corporate survivalists, discernment is just a fancy word for good judgment, and it's something that I do feel women, especially high achieving or divergent women, are lacking. If you have ever found yourself stuck in this gray zone, flipping between, they're extremely toxic to maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe they're having a bad day. This is for you, because by the end of this episode, you're actually going to have a clearer sense of where your boss might sit on this spectrum, and instead how to respond strategically without actually second guessing yourself. And to assist with this episode, I strongly recommend you go download my free workplace grooming guide and checklist in the show notes on my website, Instagram, anywhere you can find me there. You'll get clear, practical tools to help spot manipulation early, to protect your boundaries and feel more in control. Plus, you're going to get access to like future episodes, resources and like no BS insights, direct, Jiri, inbox. But what I'm actually going through today is what I have classified as the four different types of managers that sit on a set spectrum from good to extreme, and how to start noticing where yours might sit. Also two key factors that will help help you assess future managers and better build your discernment. Why it's so freaking important, especially for neurodivergent women, to recognize these types of leaders, what to do next, whether it's working through it or planning your exit, and how to reclaim your power with strategy versus shame. Okay, so let's talk about the four types of managers, and also why it is so hard to tell who you're dealing with. And I could go on about this for ages, because I want to start with the nuance the internet Tiktok. Like, it is not too nuanced, very well, there is no room for introspection. And not just on Tiktok. I'm talking Reddit, like, basically the internet, all right, or all like, just seeing both sides. It's just a quick like, you might say online or whatever, or read something like this, you know, thing happened at work, and it's followed by like, Oh, my God, that's toxic. Quit your job. And while venting is valid, I have said it before, and I will say it again, that advice can be dangerous. It is not just unhelpful for your mindset, but it keeps you in a loop. And I say that because I used to do this myself, and I saw this many times in my clients, if you're not regulating your emotions and working to like, build discernment. What ends up happening is you leave from one bad boss and run straight into another. The goal isn't always to run, rather to understand, decode and move with strategy. What can happen is you can get stuck in this loop where you know something goes off, event strangers, online or run and say all this stuff, but like no one ever stops to ask, well, what is really happening here? Because your discernment may be hijacked by extremes and as corporate women, especially if you're neurodivergent, you're already working twice as hard to decode emotional cues, manage perception and try to figure out what's normal. So I created a framework that's going to help you start making sense of it all and show you where different types of managers tend to land on this spectrum. Okay, okay, so the first one's easy, that's a good boss, all right. And a good leader, a good manager is typically direct, consistent and fair. You feel safe even if you're challenged, they are very typically emotionally regulated. You do not have to tiptoe around them. When things go wrong, they are focusing on the issue versus blaming their people. Your mistakes don't become personal attacks, and their feedback doesn't come with shame. Your problems are not treated like a reflection on them, because they're able to separate their ego from their work. That is so important. And I would say the more regulated they are, ability to differentiate their and the team's abilities from their like basically separating ego from work, they are so much easier to work with. I still remember years ago, many years ago, I stuffed something up, like I made like silly mistakes multiple times, and my manager at the time was calm with me the whole time, not just because they were really good at not just managing people, but understanding that what I did wasn't necessarily a reflection on him, but they also knew who I was and that I took feedback really seriously, so they worked with me, and they like, catered their style so that I could, you know, figure out why I kept making these mistakes and like, grow and move from there. I'd also say No one starts off, like, as a perfect, great boss. And I would even say good bosses have bad days too, but this is where the gray never gets talked about, because now I want to talk about difficult bosses. They're a bit more blunt, demanding, but a little bit more emotionally unaware, but they're not unsafe. Their personality is just, it just might not always click with yours. They might be, I don't know, abrupt or rigid in communication, and people across the organization may have mixed views on their style, the key, however, is when they're stressed, more of their rough edges might show, but crew like at the end of the day that they're not intentionally harmful. They may be a hit, a bit, hit or miss when it comes to feedback and reflection, but there is at least some capacity for growth or awareness, when approached with the right strategy, I would honestly say a majority of managers sit here not to call out anyone here who's a manager and now is like, oh my god, now I'm a difficult, terrible boss. Everyone has bad days, and what you can find is that when a person is more stressed, more of the harder parts of themselves start to come up. However, what I would just being honest, what I feel differentiates a difficult versus a good boss, is that person is able to self reflect. So the reflection is still there. It just may not come across as much versus a good boss, and then that leads into what I would consider more of a toxic boss, and that is bringing consistent chaos, blaming others, avoiding accountability and making their emotional state your professional responsibility. And what says setting them apart from a difficult boss is the consistency in the behavior, and they are rarely showing emotional growth, and they're struggling to take on feedback. They may dump their emotional state onto others, and they're not necessarily like blaming you directly, but they may even deflect accountability across the team system clients and basically creating a team culture of fear or. Instability without even naming it as their own. You can see the pattern here. The difference is also now there's consistency and less emotional awareness, and then this leads me into more of the manipulator. Okay, so this is strategic, very manipulative. Boundary blurring their control isn't necessarily chaotic, it actually might be intentional. They may consciously or subconsciously be grooming you and setting you up for something beyond work. This could mean emotional enmeshment or personal entanglement. The difference here between a toxic boss is that they are more calculated. They are using praise, special treatment and subtle power moves to possibly confuse you or isolate you, whether or not they're fully aware of their you know, tactics or even disorder, the effects are still the same. You're destabilized, possibly doubting yourself, and deeply entangled in their game. And again, the key difference here is control, while a toxic boss is more emotionally volatile and reactive, these manipulators are typically going to be playing possibly a longer and maybe even more dangerous game with often even less self awareness of how damaging the behavior really is. And the challenge with this is these people are much harder to spot, because the toxicity is more subtle, and I go into this in way more detail in my broken boundaries podcast series, you just go to the very start of this. You know, when I change the name of this podcast, I got a three part series called Broken boundaries, which goes into this type of person in way more detail. Okay, so you know the four types of bosses and like a high level, like overview and framework for each one. But what is truly differentiating these groups? If I were to put that on, like an even further spectrum, I feel it comes down to two key things. Number one is emotional volatility. This is how much of their ego and emotion is leaking out and how much they expect you to absorb it. Are they dumping their stress on you, reacting to mistakes with shame or blame? Do their moods dictate, possibly how safe you feel at work, a good boss is going to do their best to stay regulated, and even if they have a bad day, they're going to even like apologize or reflect on that. A difficult boss might snap under pressure, but reset. Toxic boss is going to more explode or possibly shut down a little bit more consistently and then manipulate it well. They're rarely going to actually show outward emotional volatility, and instead, they're actually going to weaponize some of that calmness to disarm you again. I go into way more detail in my broken boundaries mini series. The next one is self awareness or lack thereof. How conscious are they of their behavior? Are they ever reflecting, changing course, apologizing, or are they doubling down and spinning it back onto you and expecting special treatment? This is what definitely separates a good boss from a difficult one. Again, a good boss can acknowledge when they've messed up, take on feedback, reflect and genuinely try to do better. That openness to growth is a sign you're dealing with someone that is more safe, even if their style isn't always smooth, whereas a mass manipulator is probably, on the other hand, performing self awareness, they might say the right things and seem emotionally intelligent or frame feedback as welcome, but underneath it, they may possibly be setting You up for more and their form of confusion is more calculated. Again, whether they're conscious or consciously aware or not. It actually does depend on their personality or possibly disorder like such as covert narcissism, but the effect is still the same. It's destabilizing, and it's about control. Now, again, if you're wondering, oh my god, Michelle, like I understand the first three, the good, the difficult, the toxic. But then you've thrown in this manipulator person, and now I'm like, I have no idea how to figure this person out. Again, go listen to broken boundaries mini series. I dive so much deeper into that specific group. But the key here is patterns, and patterns over time, observations matter. Okay? Because while like manipulators are calculated, they're not always consistent, and they tend to apply different rules for themselves than they do for you and everyone else. So if you pay attention, you can see the mask start to slip, and you can start to note those internally where you're able to kind of stabilize yourself amongst the gray is, again, those four different types of bosses, but also looking at how emotionally volatile is this person, how self aware are they? That's where you can start to pick this person and looking at them over time. Are they, you know, how are they changing? How are they operating? And. Then mentally taking note, like, you know you've given feedback. How are they responding to that? Are they performing reflection, or are they genuinely changing from that? And why is this so important, especially for neurodivergent women? Because, oh, my God, if you're neurodivergent, you need to be even more aware, I feel, of what kind of boss you're dealing with, because neurodivergent pick up on everything and nothing at the same time, like tone changes, power shifts, tiny comments that seem off, like you notice that. But the problem is you don't at the same time, because instead of trusting your instinct, you've probably been trained to override it, to fit in, to rationalize it and possibly make it your fault, like you will read between the lines and possibly absorb unspoken tension. You might feel injustice deeply and personally, so you might try to manage people's emotions and avoid conflict, and you may even replay interactions for days trying to fix your part. This the problem. The problem. The problem with this is it makes you a prime target for a toxic or more manipulative boss, not because you're weak, but because you're tuned in, and you're actually possibly very good at regulating them, because you've been kind of trained to do it. Because funny with neurodivergent women is you start off in life, not knowing all the social rules, but then all of a sudden, like, you know the rules because you have been like learning it and trying as best as possible to fit in with everyone else. And the challenge is, because you're so tuned in, if you aren't recognizing these patterns early, you may start to internalize blame over function to compensate and burn out in the process. Because, again, it's about fitting in and not in a fake way. But I feel on a subconscious level, level of I want to be socially in tune with everyone else, and you need to know where your boss fits here and where they also might be heading. Because Are they just difficult, or is this shifting into something more toxic? Are they reactive or unpredictable, or are they pulling you into something deeper and more calculated? And again, this isn't about over labeling it, but it is about knowing how to protect your energy, your safety and your long term growth. Because what I tend to see happen, and why I did my whole mini series, is that all the signs were there, but everything was dismissed, and not even to the extreme of having a manipulative boss, but just having struggling in their job, dealing with someone who was a bit more emotionally volatile, and how people were playing into that. Okay. Now you might be asking, What do I do now? Like I figured out what kind of boss I'm dealing with now, what? Because here's the thing, it comes down to, like, two paths, really, if you're not happy with, like, you know, the current boss or whatever, right? And like, things aren't working. Well, I'm assuming, if you're listening to this, you think your boss is toxic, is what I'm trying to say, right? And which one really depends on how it's impacting you emotionally and also your physical safety. So look, if they're not a proper manipulator, right? If they're more of the difficult or toxic kind, you have two options. And I tell this to all my clients, you can one, do the inner work, okay? So you can manage your own emotional response, shift your thoughts about the situation, and play the political game intentionally. Again, this is about recognizing what your triggers are, staying neutral, protecting your energy, but still showing up strategically. That is one option the section second option, still a valid option, is to change your reality. If this isn't something you want to keep working through, that's valid as well. Maybe it is time to move teams like lodge a complaint or look somewhere else. This doesn't make you a failure. It may just mean that you've outgrown the dysfunction. However, I always get my clients to reflect on both options, especially if there is a pattern of leaving roles and ending up in a similar situation, because it's not about blaming yourself, okay, it's about asking you, is there something in how you're thinking, responding or unconsciously engaging that draws these dynamics in? I'm going to say it again. Is there something in how you are thinking, responding or unconsciously engaging that draws these dynamics in? Okay? You aren't creating it. Sometimes you are unknowingly stepping into these conditions that keeps these patterns going. And when you have that awareness, it can be incredibly empowering, especially when you want to make your next move. So some things you can do as a start when it comes to doing some of the inner work. Is asking yourself, am I contributing to this dynamic with my reactions or stories? And please do this not from a place of blame. Okay, this is not saying that you created a toxic boss. I just want you to think about how if you are dealing with someone who is. Emotionally volatile and reactive. And it's like, think of it like, like a little kid poking you right. If you keep engaging and responding to that, they may continue to poke you. So it is good to sometimes have that awareness to then think strategically. Well, how do I want to navigate this? Because sometimes just little changes like that have changed the whole dynamic entirely. Make this clear, this is not to blame you, because a lot of people come on here, and I think they're looking for validation, and I want to validate their emotions and how they're feeling. But this is what I used to do all the time, and if I could go back to some of the people, stakeholders, managers, whatever it is that I have dealt with over my career, and tell and tell myself, hey, responding neutrally, like, acting like this, blah, blah, don't act like that. It would have changed the outcome so so much. The next thing is just asking yourself, like, Does this person actually align with your values and who you are? Like, do you want to continue like? Are you comfortable to continue working under that because sometimes, for some people, it's like, no, I just, it just doesn't fit. And that's fine, too. And the next one is just, do you want to keep navigating this or just change the environment? If you want to get more into the inner work in how you're responding and handling this? Really go back to, like, some of my most Likes, the very earliest episodes of this podcast, like the first three episodes, I talk about the whole framework that I use myself and even with my clients, and it has changed my life so much for the better. Difference is now it is that I use it with a lot more of a layer of like office politics and strategy, which is what I felt was missing from all this type of coaching work. It's either on one spectrum or the complete other. It's either super like, deep and thoughtful or super strategic, and there was nothing in between. Okay, now I know what you're gonna ask. Okay, well, what if I am like, what if I could be dealing with a mass manipulator? Because this is a different ball game entirely. And my absolute strongest advice is to document everything, even if, like you're not going to use it. Keep copies of everything. Journal it, write it down, create a timeline. Go listen to my three part series of the broken boundaries, especially the final episode, as that goes into much more depth about what to do when someone crosses the line, especially if you are considering like, reporting or external support, because this is no longer about whether your boss is like difficult or annoying or whatever. It's about whether it's starting to become psychologically unsafe, and if they are, your priority isn't just surviving. It is really about reclaiming your power and making a plan to get out safely and strategically and look if you are for whatever reason, and I talk about this in way more detail in that episode, staying for now. Don't let them become the author of your story. Reclaiming your power might just look like documenting the truth, building some quiet alliances, collecting proof, or finally, just validating what your body has been trying to tell you all along, that you are not the problem. Okay, you get to walk away clear headed, self honoring and much stronger than you were, versus when you got pulled into this mess and you weren't seeing everything. So a final word this whole episode, and I guess my whole series, it's all about building discernment, because what I've seen time and time again from my clients swinging between extremes is they are either taking all the blame like I must be the problem, or fully externalizing it and possibly excusing someone who is more toxic or manipulative by saying like they're just under pressure. But the truth is, it's a little bit of both. Like at the end of the day, I get people need to do the inner work, but it is never about blaming themselves or asking, you know, how am I recreating it? It's more about asking, how might I be unintentionally engaging with people or dynamics that pull me deeper into the my own subconscious patterns. I have talked about this on many episodes like you do not know, the amount of times I've spoken to clients. We work through stuff, and it all just comes back to childhood. And I honestly believe that everyone is just playing out childhood dynamics that were resolved when they were a kid with their parents at work, and especially when you're reacting from that place of emotional volatility or lacking strategy. That is where it's needed so much more, because this is where corporate strategy meets emotional intelligence. It's not just about what someone else did. It's also about how you respond and whether that response keeps you stuck or helps you move forward with clarity, power and even a plan, and that is also exactly why I created my corporate glow up program. It's one on one support that blends emotional insight and corporate strategy, because, let's be honest, you like you don't need executive coaching that also ignores your feel feelings, but also like vague. Mindset advice that forgets that you also have KPIs and that you want to get promoted. Okay, this is about helping you navigate your exact situation with clarity, self trust and a plan that actually, like works in the real world for your corporate goals, but not just your corporate goals, also that you can have a life outside that you're not burning the candle at both ends. You're not freaking out on Sunday thinking about work. You're actually, like, ready for it. You know how to regulate yourself. Calm down in the moment. Just another word for you. Probably you regulate all the time. It's another word for calm. You know that, but I like to use it because, like, it's about bringing you back to the center. And when you can do that, you can be present, and you can enjoy the coffee on the weekend and you're not tired after work, but then you're getting noticed for things at work, and that's because you've weirdly pulled away, but that's now you're becoming more strategic, and you're actually investing in opportunities that are growing you, etc. What I'm trying to say, and again, head to my show notes. Anywhere you can find me online to find out more info about that. But to wrap up, look, most managers exist in the gray zone, okay, they're not fully good or bad, which is why building discernment is key and also trusting discernment and your gut, okay, emotional volatility and lack of self awareness, they are the two major dynamics that are going to help you spot where your boss sits, and no one is going to perfectly sit in that, like, exact four framework that I gave you, but I needed to give you something, because all I see are two extremes good or, like, super horrible, like massive Joe Navarro, corporate psychopaths and stuff like that. There's nothing in between. And I'm like, This is ridiculous. Also noting, if you're neurodivergent, you are more likely to over function and internalize toxic dynamics. This is why I'm making this type of awareness is even more critical. If your boss is difficult or toxic, again, you can either do the inner work, build some strategy around it, or make a clean exit. Okay? And reclaiming your power is just about leaving okay. It's about recognizing patterns and responding with strategy versus self blame. This is really important. If you've come here and you're like, I still think my boss is toxic, that is okay. Validate your emotions and how you are feeling. Go back to my earlier episodes and start listening to those, because I really show you how to get unstuck and move out of this one taught you how to manage corporate dynamics people. I still think corporate is very weird in that sense. School kind of tried to train us for it, but I don't feel it did the best job, especially if you're neurodivergent. But I'm going to speak truth. This isn't going to be the whole yes, they're toxic. Go leave, because I'm just going to say it. Ask yourself, have you done this before? Have you left toxic boss after toxic boss? And it keeps coming up again. That's why I created this episode. And please go back very beginning. Listen to all of it, because all of my episodes have that key wisdom in that. And if you are like, Oh yeah, I am going to download the workplace grooming guide and checklist, but maybe you are dealing and you're sitting here and you're like, Oh, I actually might be dealing with a mass manipulator again, go listen to the broken boundaries podcast. But I am going to mention here you can book in a free empowerment call. Okay, that's to help you build a plan to move through whatever you're going through, understand if there are any sort of unsafe grooming dynamics happening, and come out stronger and not smaller. To find out more information, you can go to the show notes, listen to that episode, and my website has way more details. All right, I will see you in the next two weeks, actually. No, I do want to apologize. I've just found this out now that my dogs have been chewing on like a little chew toy in the background, and I can hear it every now and again. So just letting you know that's what it was, I'm gonna try to get rid of it as best I can in the editing process, but we'll see how I go anyway. See you later.