The Relationship Skills That Actually Matter in Non-Monogamy with Dr. Dan Sneider Ep. 136

If you’ve ever wondered which relationship skills actually make non-monogamy easier, healthier, and less chaotic, this episode is your new favorite deep dive.

Today I’m talking with couples therapist Dr. Dan Sneider, who works with both monogamous and non-monogamous partners and brings a grounded, compassionate, very human approach to communication, trust, and emotional safety.

We get into the skills that truly make the biggest difference, including:

• How to communicate without spiraling

• How to know when you’re going too fast

• How to tell old baggage from a real relationship issue

• The 5 to 1 positivity ratio and why it matters

• What emotional safety feels like in your body

• How to navigate the sex and feelings part of non-monogamy without gaslighting each other

• Why “go slow to go fast” works every single time

Whether you’re opening up, rebuilding trust, or trying to deepen connection, this episode gives you practical, usable tools you can apply right away.

📍 Work with Dr. Dan: intimacyshift.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you've ever felt confused about whether your reaction is like old baggage or something real happening in your relationship right now, then this episode is probably gonna hit home. Welcome back to Nope, we're not monogamous. I'm your non-monogamy coach Alicia Payne. And today I'm talking to Dr. Dan Snyder. He's a couples therapist who works with both monogamous and non-monogamous folks, and brings this like really grounded, honest, very human approach to connection. Dan isn't the kind of therapist who shows up pretending that he has everything perfect. He talks openly about being a den, a person who struggled in relationships, and someone who learned this work by actually living in it. Which honestly is my favorite kind of therapist. So in this episode, we're gonna talk about what actually helps relationships thrive, how to communicate without spiraling, how to know if you're moving too fast, and why slowing down usually gets you further. We get into trust, attachment, emotional safety, sex, feelings, all the messy human stuff that shows up when you open a relationship. It's warm, it's practical, and it's full of lots of little aha moments that you can use right away. Enjoy. So welcome to Nope, we're not monogamous. I'm I'm happy to have you here and happy to connect with you. And before I start peppering you with questions, can you uh share a little bit about who you are, like as a therapist and a human who enjoys talking about relationships?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah, happy to. So thank you so much for letting me be on your show and getting to talk with your audience about relationships and just the human experience of wanting to be in connection with other people. Um, so for me, that's a you know, lifelong kind of journey trying to figure out, you know, how I fit in with other people, whether that's friendships, romantic partners, marriage, parenting. Um, you know, I've always wanted to be in harmony and have struggled to do that, you know, sometimes mightily. Um, so I come to being a therapist not because I have it figured out, but because I want to learn and I want to um see how other people are doing it, to be on their journeys and um to help them through some of the things that I've learned and experienced along the way. Um so yeah, looking forward to to diving in more deeply and and talking all about that.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Amazing. Amazing. I love that. Super relatable. So you work with both monogamous and non-monogamous people. And I'm curious when you like zoom out, what is the biggest difference that you see in what helps these relationships thrive? Like, what's the thing that stays the same no matter the structure? But what is there anything that's different?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, yeah. So um, I do work with couples that are both non-monogamous and monogamous, and a lot that are somewhere in between that have questions, that are wanting to experiment, kind of not sure where to begin. Um, and so I always start with figuring out kind of what their story is coming into that relationship, because of course that informs everything else, like how we got to where we are. Um, and I know in my story, right, I was raised in a home that had a lot of messages about how relationships were supposed to function. And some of those were okay and helpful, and then others were really harmful and damaging. And so exploring kind of where the people in front of me got to where they are now is the first thing that I want to know. Like, what are their ideas about relationships in general? Um, you know, are they open to exploring? Are they more kind of fixed in their mindset of like, I don't know what could be possible. I'm kind of scared. And and, you know, all of those are kind of different pathways that we'll take. Um, but more and more I'm meeting couples that are going through kind of shifts in their relationships, and that's where a lot of the questions are coming from. So um it's one of the reasons why my website that your your audience can visit is called intimacyft.com, because that's really the place where I'm meeting a lot of people. Um, sometimes that's couples that have just moved in together, and that's a big shift in their relationship. Um, other times it's their new parents or they're fresh empty nesters and now kind of have this new lease and freedom on relationship. Um, but each of those points has a big shift in their expectations for each other and for the relationship. And that's when a lot of people are starting to question or to be curious about other ways of of being.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's I find a very similar thing that like when people are reaching out and looking for support, it's like they're in some sort of transition. Like things have changed, and now we no longer know what the blueprint looks like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, that idea of like having a blueprint. No, I think that's that's a word I I hear often too. And um, yeah, having a plan or a roadmap, you know, I I certainly like to be in control of situations. And when I don't know what the plan is or I don't have a blueprint, um I feel unsettled. And that's when I'm looking for a book, I'm asking friends, I'm trying to find that resource. Um, and when we have two people in a relationship with different ideas of what the blueprint could be, uh, yeah, then talking to a professional and trying to reconcile those two things is really critical. Um, and a lot of what I do is helping those two people to talk to each other in really healthy ways so that they can calibrate. It's not so much what the ultimate answer is. Like I can't tell another couple like what the best way for them to do it is, but I can help them to have the conversation in a healthier, better way before we've done something with our actions that causes hurt feelings. And then it's much more difficult.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

What would you say are the communication skills that like really make uh like a measurable difference in like either like repairing a rupture or like building connection or building trust or or you know, any of that? Like what are what are the kind of the skills that people need?

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, yeah. So we can we can go deeply into into any one of these areas. But um, yeah, the the kind of first thing that I talk about with couples and see often is we have conversations when one person is ready and the other person is not. And automatically that's a setup for it not to go well. Um, so how do we stop having conversations that are in passing or when one person is stressed or tired or hungry or just not prepared for it? So, yeah, the first thing that I want people to think about is in your relationship, just like going to the gym, you know, we have to do that regularly and we have a schedule of some kind when we're going to the gym. In the relationship, we want to have some kind of schedule for when we're talking about our relationship, when we're working on our relationship. Um, so you can be really formal. You can put it on the calendar, you know, every Sunday afternoon is relationship check-in time. Um, and that's when both people know we're going to be connecting, talking with each other, making plans. And that way the person who is wanting to have these conversations is maybe thinking about, like I have, you know, curiosities about opening the relationship or exploring things, or there's something about our sex life or our relationship that I need to talk through. That's the time set aside when I get to have that conversation. I don't need to try to read my partner's mind, find the imaginary perfect time, which there never is to talk about things. And the other person who maybe is not the one bringing ideas and feelings to the table, usually that's more the male role, maybe a little more withdrawn, less interested in having these conversations, they also are not going to get surprised and bombarded. They know, all right, on Sundays, like this is the time where I can be ready to settle in to have those kinds of conversations. So that's that's kind of the first gateway that I talk to couples about is like, are we just having conversations at random or like in the hallway or you know, late at night after the kids have gone to sleep? Or do we really have a plan when like we're sitting down to talk about a relationship?

unknown 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah. Yeah, that's so important. Uh I wonder. I feel like a lot of people avoid that because they feel like it's always going to be heavier, always going to be something they don't want to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, you're you're describing me. That that's uh that's that's me and relationships until I guess recently when I started working on these and like really digging in. But yeah, typically I'm I'm more of an avoider, more uh withdrawn, wanting to figure things out by myself or not talk about it. So and I'm very honest with the couples I work with. Like again, like there is no perfect, you know, these are things that we have to practice, muscles that we build. So, yeah, great question and one that I often get from couples too is like we try to talk about things and it doesn't go well. And we're less likely to talk about things when it doesn't go well. So, how do we do this and have more fun doing it? So, step two, right after we have a good time to talk, is let's get grounded, let's regulate our bodies and our nervous systems together so that we are more set up for a fun conversation. So, for me, that means I'm either well fed or there's a snack involved. Like, don't come at me when I'm hungry. So let's make sure that need is taken care of. And then what my partner and I will do is we'll kind of take turns picking, you know, what's our grounding activity before we get into the conversation. Sometimes it's lighting a candle, putting on quiet music. It could be we're gonna hold hands, take some deep breaths together. Um, it could be, you know, we're gonna take a walk first, you know, let's just do a quick lap around the block. But the idea is there's something intentional we're doing to set the stage, to have this like juicy, you know, conversation about our relationship so that it's something we can look forward to. So that's a big part of it. And then I also want there to be like good things that we're talking about. It's not just we're bringing up problems. We can also call out what are the things we're grateful for in each other? What are the wins we each had this week? You know, if we are uh in the process of exploring non-monogamy or we're, you know, experienced, you know, pros at it, we can still call out wins like, hey, this week, you know, I felt really excited, you know, to hear about the date that you went on. Or, you know, this week I had a really great connection with a new partner, and I'm excited to share it. And, you know, all kinds of in-between things where it's not just like these are all my problems, right? We can also highlight the good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. Like, uh yeah, I think a lot of people think like, okay, this is our talk. This is when we gotta, I gotta bear my soul about everything, and then we're both gonna be mad. So I love like, oh, it can be fun. You can you can say all the things you love, the things you're happy about, the things that are going well. Sometimes that may be all you have.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Or wouldn't that's the best. I love hearing that. Like we had our check-in, Dan, and it was awesome. You know, we felt super connected, we shared all the things, and it set us up for a great week. Like, I love hearing that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. I love that. What what is there a step three?

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Uh there is. We don't have to go through all of them. We certainly can. Um, so for for for that part of my work, there's uh there's six steps that I have for having these sorts of conversations. Um, and again, at intimacyft.com, your listeners can get a PDF with details and examples, um, questions we can ask. Um, so yeah, they can visit the site and they can they can get all of this in detail, but happy to talk through more of a yeah, six steps in in this part of my work.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

I love that. I love that so much. Um I know uh from from uh the information you gave me before this, uh, that uh one of the things that you talk about is that people should like sort out their attachment wounds, their resentment, their codependency, things like that before they add more partners in. How do you explain that to people in a way that like feels empowering instead of like like shaming them or restricting or like they have to earn opening up?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Oh, that's a really good question. No, excited to to talk about that with you. So definitely like we can we can go back and forth because uh I think that is a really thorny thing for couples of like, how do we get started? How much work do we need to have done before? How do we know when we're ready? As if there's like a a graduation or like a certificate of readiness, right? Um, so I think that that's such a a rich conversation to have with people. And so the the work continues. So I think that's that's kind of the first thing is we are all in the process of of becoming at all times. Um and never, uh yeah, totally, right. Um, and um understanding how we show up in this relationship is is really critical. Like I mentioned before, like in my past, I was more of an avoidant, um, avoidantly attached partner. And that comes from from my childhood, where I was raised in a kind of chaotic home environment where it wasn't very predictable how I would be protected or what kinds of emotional dysfunction would play out that particular day. So, what I learned is that I need to rely on myself, and it's not safe for me to rely on others for safety, protection, and care. And so that's not the end of my story, but knowing that that's where I tend to go is helpful so that in a relationship, if I'm having those kinds of thoughts or feelings, like it's not safe for me to share my feelings, or I don't want to share this feeling, or I'm gonna go somewhere else to get my needs met. I know for me that those are, you know, warning bells, those are alarms. And, you know, I need to work on those things in my relationship. That's a cue for me. Like I need to find a way to bring up those feelings with my partner, to take a deep breath, to give them an opportunity to soothe and to meet me somewhere in the middle. Um, and then that's work that I've done. And so with couples that I'm working with, I encourage them to really explore, you know, do they fall on the more avoidant side of relationships where they're um not seeking that kind of comfort and love within the relationship? They're seeking it either somewhere else or just within themselves, or more on the anxious side where they're feeling more worried, more kind of need for reassurance more of the time from their partner. And that's, you know, kind of just in general. So we're not talking about like, you know, all the psychology behind it, but like how you show up in relationship. Are you more of a worried needing reassurance, or are you more avoiding and withdrawing? And, you know, knowing that about yourself helps you communicate with your partner how you're feeling and then what you need. And that's what so much of this comes down to. Like, if I don't know how I'm feeling and what I need, I can't tell my partner, and then we can't figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Yeah, yeah, that's a big one. Is that like, what am I even feeling? I don't know. It's bad. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

And you think it's a start. Yeah. No, I love, I love your your energy, Alicia, because you're you're smiling about it and you're like, I don't know exactly what it is, but it's it's something bad, right? That's that's a lot of information. If you can share that with a partner, that's great. Because instead of acting on that feeling, like, you know, I've got this frustrated look on my face, or I'm kind of closing doors, you know, really loudly and stomping around the house, like you've put it out there, like I'm feeling bad. Okay, Alicia's feeling bad. Let's let's figure out what's going on. Did something happen today? How can I help? And and now we're talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. That's so good. So good. Yeah. How the thing that I'm curious about that is how people can sort out what is like old emotional baggage, you know, like what how do you know if what you're responding to is like from your past relationships or childhood or is like a current relationship issue? Like, is this my nervous system freaking out or is there something actually wrong?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, yeah. Um, or both, right? And so yeah, teasing it all apart. Absolutely. So yeah, and and connecting that to your question about attachment stuff and you know, how do we know kind of when we're ready, or like how do we know how much we've sorted out so that then we can move forward or try new things? So I I like to think about like discomfort versus pain, right? Is this uncomfortable or am I in pain? Um, kind of that difference between like what is kind of growth through some discomfort, some unsettling situations versus like, oh no, I actually have like a broken bone and like I need medical attention and care and like we're calling the ambulance. So emotionally, those are those are things that can help us to sort it out too. So in a relationship, if we are talking to each other or working through things, um, if we can connect with the other person and let them know, you know, this is a feeling that's coming up. Um, I'm not sure maybe if it's connected to something old or something current, you know, how the partner responds to that, how the two people work together is gonna dictate whether that is an old thing or whether that's like call the ambulance, like emergency right now. Um, because you know, if we can work through that together and talk through it, then like that's a a really great signal that the relationship is healthy right here and now. And that old thing that was rearing its ugly head, we can, you know, put it to rest for now, we can soothe it, we can quiet it. Um, but if, you know, in that moment, you know, I'm not able to soothe that either on my own or with my partner's help, it's a signal that there's something bigger that's wrong. And that's when we might want to slow things down, put the brakes on what we're doing. Um, and we often don't know until we put ourselves in that situation. So, getting back to your question of like how do couples kind of like know when they're ready or when they've worked through things enough. Um, what I encourage everybody to think about is like, what is the smallest step that we can take? You know, we don't need to take a giant leap. I'm sure you've had other people talk about this before, but let's, you know, take a small forward step and then see how we feel. And then we can take another forward step. Um, but when we encounter resistance or discomfort, we want to pause there and, you know, own it, honor it, see how we can work through it together. And if there's a really healthy resolution where we can feel soothed, then we're ready to take that next forward step.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. I I know a lot of uh a lot of couples I talk to, they kind of treat like opening up or becoming non-monogamous as like a light switch. Like either they're open or closed. And it's like we just have to now is the thing. Like we flipped the switch. I'm like, no, no, no, you gotta put like a dimmer on that switch. Like just do a little bit and then reassess, see how you feel. Don't just go rub genitals with people the first time you decide you've opened.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah, yeah. You and you've through experience seen how that goes a lot of the time. So that's that is excellent advice. Everybody listen to that. Yeah, underline in bold for sure. Yeah, and you know, figuring out like where's that sense of urgency coming from, you know, because there often is that not even like people don't know. That there's a dimmer switch, but they feel like a pressure of like rip the band-aid off, or there's a part of this that I'm so excited about, and I just want to have that experience. And it can be uncomfortable to slow things down and to take those slower steps, but we want to figure out like where is that discomfort coming from? And a lot of times in couples I deal with, there's something in the relationship that hasn't gotten figured out and resolved. So while there's no like certificate of readiness, there are some clear, like warning signs for me that, you know, one or both people is not quite ready. And that sense of urgency, I really want to explore like where is that coming from? And oftentimes there's something in the relationship that hasn't, you know, met one person's needs. You know, there's something that hasn't happened or isn't happening in the right kind of way. And we want to figure out what that is so we can speak to that before we like, like you asked me, like adding in new elements is going to complicate things. So let's see what we can figure out here first.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah. What are some excuse me? What are some uh examples of of those those signs that someone's like going too fast and having that that sense of urgency?

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah, yeah. So uh a common one that I see is you know, one person's expressing discomfort or they're not sure, and the other person is being pushy, right? They're they're saying like it'll be fine, let's just try it. Um, and they they may be right, but those kinds of messages to like pull the other person if they're expressing discomfort is is a setup, you know. And in a relationship, we want the other person to have their needs met, right? We want the other person to be happy. And it's maybe not intentional pressure or coercion, but there's a lot of power in the relationship that if there's something I'm saying I really want to try and it'll be okay, that other person who loves me and cares about me is gonna feel pulled or pushed. And so it sounds counterintuitive, but actually by slowing down and maybe taking that off the table for now is actually the fastest way to get there. So, for so many couples, taking the pressure off and saying, you know, let's not even talk about opening, let's not talk about, you know, what that next forward step is. And let's build a ton of safety and connection in your relationship for now. And then, you know, we'll see about revisiting it later. It's actually the quickest way to then get to comfort about opening because we feel so secure and safe in that current relationship. And that's what allows us to open. So that's a big one for me. That sense of urgency. I always want to explore.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah, it feels like often um, like if I don't, if we don't do this now, you're gonna take it away from me, or like the opp I'll miss the opportunity. You're gonna change your mind or or something.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. And and similar to that is like the like the pullback, right? We have opened, we have tried some things, and there's a desire from one person to pull back, to to close things or to withdraw, to take a pause or a break. And that brings up big feelings for both people, right? The one person feels like something's being taken away that they were excited by, they were um, they had worked really hard to get to that point, and now we're going backwards. Um, and so that that's another like red flag, but just like a warning moment of, you know, where's uh that sense of disappointment, hurt feelings, entitlement of like we had agreed to this and now we're changing it. Um, you know, that moment is another big one that I'll work on with couples too, of you know, what are we trying to feel in this situation? Like, did we have goals here? You know, what what were we wanting to happen? And, you know, the the the game has not ended, right? Like there's still time. Just because we're either pausing or we're taking a step back doesn't mean we can't go back there. You know, if if it feels that way, um, if it feels very black and white, all or nothing, that's uh another point that I want to explore. Because it probably plays out in other places in the relationship. Anytime a couple is expressing really like black or white thinking, you know, you always do this, we never do that. Um, I want to pause there and and explore it more because it's it's very gray. And if we're accusing somebody of always doing something, it's gonna bring up defensiveness and hurt feelings. And now we're not in that safe, trusting place where we can explore opening or or anything else in our relationship.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

See that a lot.

unknown 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

There's like a lot of uh like power dynamics that happen in relationships that impact each piece of it. And they're like, I don't know, let's just we could let's do something else.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Right, right. Yeah, and sometimes, you know, action is a is a very good thing, but we want it to to be mindful and we want it to to come from that that safe place. Um, and again, it doesn't have to be perfect because there's not a perfect place. There there is discomfort with with anything in relationship, but we want to make sure we're being clear. Is it uncomfortable or is it painful? And you know how we address each of those situations is is different.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

One of the things that um you had mentioned before um was you talk about a uh five to one ratio of positive to negative interactions. What does that look like in real life, especially if somebody's like juggling multiple relationships?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yeah, yeah. So that comes from uh John and Julie Gottman's work. So they are the relationship gurus. Um, tons of great books, articles. Um, you know, anyone can check out their great website. And a lot of what they've researched and found is, you know, we can apply it to all sorts of different relationships, not just monogamous ones. Um, and the idea there is that um it's at least a five to one of positive good things, call-outs to every one piece of criticism or constructive feedback or noticing things that are not going the way we want them to. So um this has been so helpful for me in my life because as a somewhat of a rigid thinker, right? I like to have control over my situations. Um, you know, there's a lot of times where I want the other person to see things my way, or I can clearly see, oh, it would be better if this happened. And I want the other person to be on the same page with me, to see it my way. So if I just tell them directly, like, you're doing it wrong, do it this way, uh, that's not likely to work. Their walls are gonna go up, they're gonna be hurt, defensive, et cetera. Um, and so what I've what I've learned is that, you know, the more that I can catch someone doing it, doing something the right way, noticing how hard they're working, how much effort they put into something, if I'm calling those things out more of the time, then the other person is gonna be much more receptive if I have feedback or a different idea. So, you know, the numbers in their research are five to one at least. It can be more, it could be 50 to one. Um, but overwhelming the other person with compliments, with noticing how hard they're working, with validating their experience is gonna make the other person much more receptive to any feedback that you have. And so, in relationships, you know, especially if you're juggling multiple relationships, you're both working, you're parenting, uh, there's a lot of opportunity for miscommunication. And the tendency is in the short time we have together, we want to figure things out. Um, we want to exchange information, plan schedules. Um, but if we skip the part where we're complimenting the other person, validating how hard they're working, noticing all the wonderful things that are doing, then the other communication is not going to work very well. And it's gonna feel like criticism and it's gonna lead to conflict. So um that's a sort of structured thing that can help couples, not like it, not like on a spreadsheet, I can map like how many great things the other person did, and then I told them, like, see, I told you five things, so now you have to listen to me. But just that idea of like, okay, am I overwhelmingly sharing with the other person how much I love them, care about them, and see them. Um, and so yeah, wanting for couples to have some sort of framework in their heads for communicating um all of these wonderful qualities in the other person.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I I really love that. And it feeds into a thing that I use with my clients, um, which is a proof positive list. We say, like, you know, if your partner is juicing you up and giving you compliments and telling you things that like make you feel good, like write it down. If they sent you a great text, take a screenshot or copy it and paste it into your notes app so that when you're having a hard time, like if you're jealous or insecure, you know, your partner's off and you're like, they probably hate me now. Like you can look at all this proof you have that actually they love you, they care about you, they, you know, they're doing things or saying things that that show you that, uh, you you have it right there in black and white. And this feeds so well into that from the other side. Like, make sure that you're doing those things so your partner has has that proof that they can look at and go, oh yeah, just yesterday they told me how much they love and appreciate me. They aren't leaving.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah. Oh, that that those do go so well together. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna steal that lovingly and make sure that that my couples are doing that too, because we have that evidence, right? It's not just uh I kind of remember something they said, or you know, Dr. Dan told us to share these things with each other, and it was kind of homework. It's like, no, I have the screenshot on my phone and I can I can physically look at it and and be reassured, you know, while I'm not with my partner at that moment. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Yeah, yeah, it's so good. Amazing, amazing. Um, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah, you know, we haven't talked uh so much about like the uh emotion. Well, we've talked about emotional intimacy. We haven't used that term, but like trust building, all of the things we've talked about so far, building trust within the relationship. And so when we talked about attachment and we talked about feeling safe with our partner, being reassured by them, all of that's emotional intimacy, building trust. Um, and then there's physical intimacy too, which we haven't talked so much about and want to make sure that that's part of the conversation. Um, because those two things are different, but of course they work together, right? So the more that a couple is emotionally intimate, the better physical intimacy is gonna feel. And vice versa. If we have really healthy and passionate, loving physical intimacy, we want that to feed back and to trust and safety emotionally. Um, and so, of course, with navigating open relationships or non-monogamy, the physical element is really important. And so, as part of any of these conversations that I've been talking about, um, we want that to be part of the conversation too. Um, you know, because of course there's a physical element. There may be things that um one person is wanting to happen physically with another person, excited about, and that can bring up things for the other person. There could be body issues that get brought up. There could be scenarios involving multiple people that are going to bring up feelings, and the two people are gonna have different ideas of you know what they want physically in these other relationships. So yeah, I want to make sure that we talk about that part. And something that I share with couples is we want to try to keep the emotional and the physical intimacy kind of moving in parallel. So if we are opening or thinking about opening, if you know, I build a physically intimate relationship with someone super fast, we want to make sure that the emotional part of it gets addressed too. So they're not like way out of sync. Um, and so in my primary relationship, I want to make sure I'm communicating like what is my plan or expectation with these relationships? You know, are we emotionally ready for the physical things to happen? Are we physically ready for the emotional things to happen? And and making sure we're having both sides of that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Absolutely, absolutely. Especially, I often see, well, it's most people are either at the point that they're like, okay, we're gonna be non-monogamous, we're doing this now. It's either the sex that makes them get all worried and freaked out and and start going, wow, this is things are bad, or they're fine with the sex and it's the emotions, and they're like, No, I'm gonna lose you here. And it's like one or the other, and I can never, I wish I could guess which one it would be, or like, I wish there was a tell. Like, which is it gonna be? Because it's gonna be one of them.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, and then and then we know a little bit better what to prepare for. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and a lot of what I try to bring into the conversation, because it's true for all of us, is that there's uh a misconception about kind of like how our bodies respond to sex and relationships. And, you know, even if it is, I'm using air quotes for anyone just listening, like purely a physical relationship, air quotes, your your body physiologically is responding with neurochemicals, oxytocin, dopamine. You are having a physical response. And so there have to be emotions. No matter how purely physical it is, there are 100% for all of us, we're not robots, there is an emotional response. And so we have to be able to talk about it in that way in these conversations, because it can feel like gaslighting or invalidating to say to a partner, like, I don't have feelings for that person. It's just physical. Um, and same in reverse, you know, to say like this is just emotional connection, I just really trust them, care about them, value talking to them. There's a physical response to that kind of emotional relationship too. Same kind of thing where we're having a reward system, dopamine response, oxytocin and trust are building there too. So we we need to be honest in these conversations that any version of relationship, emotional, physical, or both, there are feelings there. It's okay that there are feelings there. And we we need to be able to talk about you know how we're feeling about those feelings and validating the other person's response to it. It makes sense that you're having a reaction to that. Because I did just, you know, get naked with this person and have this, you know, powerful sexual experience. It was just sex and it was emotional too, because I took time to be with that person. I enjoyed being with that person, and that's okay to say and feel, but if we if we don't say it and we deny it, the other person's gonna be left hanging and feel confused.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yes, yes, I love that. I love that. I I often tell people um who are excuse me, who are wanting um a physically open relationship, right? And they're like, we're just this is just about sex, that's it. And I'm like, okay, but you have to talk about what you will do when inevitably some sort of emotions pop up. Like, how are you gonna you can't just pretend it won't happen and ignore it because then later you're gonna feel betrayed or like knocked sideways. You're you have to talk about it because it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah, yeah. And it's it's good if it's positive feelings too. It can be, you know, I was excited to have that physical connection with somebody, and I felt so satisfied afterwards and relaxed, and like those are feelings, you know, it was not just physical, it felt really good. And if we want, you know, the other person to be excited in some kind of way or supportive or understanding, they need to know what those feelings were. And then we can, you know, talk about what that means for the relationship. Because a lot of times there's so much excitement, especially when we're first getting started in a new relationship, that the sex is often really great, really exciting. It's novel. It was a new person. I had wanted to do that for so long. It doesn't always go that way, but a lot of the times it does. And the other person is going to have some feelings about that because maybe the sex that the two of you have been having has not felt just like that in a while, where it feels different, not better or worse, but different. And that difference is going to bring up probably some kind of insecurity, some questions, and we need to honor that. And it's okay that there's differences there. And the more we can talk about it, the you know, better your relationship can become, the stronger. And, you know, it leaves these other relationships open for for more rather than having to like pull back. We can we can keep all these things going if we're talking about it in healthy ways.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

I love that so much. It's so good. So good. Fantastic, fantastic. I um okay, say one more time how people can find you.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Yeah, so intimacy.com. And again, my name's Dan Snyder, and I'm a couples therapist. I'm licensed in a few different states, so you can learn more about me if you want to work with me in a therapy setting, or I have a 12-week program that I run three times a year, starting in January, in April, and in September. And so that's a 12-week education program. It's not therapy, it's a different format where for 12 weeks we're meeting online, and I am teaching all kinds of skills, some of them I've talked about today, to help your relationship to feel juicy, passionate, connected. We're gonna learn how to talk through problems, through conflicts, um, so that we can really have the kind of relationship that we want. Um, so that's the best way to follow me. You can sign up with your email at intimacyft.com, and you'll get right away that PDF with my six steps to having these kinds of conversations.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

I love that. That's so good. It's so good. And I'm I'm gonna put you, people ask me all the time for uh who I need to find a therapist. Who do I go to? So I'll put you on my list and uh I'll put your link in the show notes that people have it. I have one more question for you. This one didn't go on the main episode, it goes on um our Patreon at patreon.com slash not monogamous for supporters of the show. And the segment is called Just the Tip. And it is uh, what is a favorite or best sex tip that you would give people? Amazing. Thank you so much. I've appreciated talking to you. You're fantastic, and you have the most soothing voice.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Thank you. Yeah, it's that that therapist voice. It uh it just it just happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Thank you for hanging out with me and Dr. Dan today. I hope this conversation helped you feel a little more human in whatever season of your relationship you're in. Remember, you're not broken. You were born absolutely lovable, you get to grow at your own pace. And if you want to keep these kind of conversations going, come join us over at Patreon, uh at patreon.com slash not monogamous, where I share bonus segments like the just the tip that Dan just did, behind the scenes stories, QA calls, all the messy middle goodness that doesn't make it onto the main show. Your support is so, so, so helpful. And if you love this episode, you can go ahead and do the things to help us grow. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Leave a review so more people can find this show and support it. And share this episode with a friend or a partner who might need to hear it. Thanks so much for being here and being a part of our community. I'll see you soon. Bye.