Saying Yes to Non-Monogamy with Natalie Davis, EP. 143

What if non-monogamy wasn’t something you planned… but something you found your way into?

In this episode of Nope! We’re Not Monogamous, I’m joined by Natalie Davis, editor of Polyamory Today and author of the memoir Saying Yes: My Adventures in Non-monogamy.

Natalie shares her deeply human journey from a traditional, long-term monogamous marriage through infidelity, swinging, and polyamory, and how that path eventually led to building a chosen family that includes her partner and her metamour, all living together under one roof.

This conversation is honest, nuanced, and especially validating if you didn’t start non-monogamy feeling confident, enlightened, or “built for this.”

We talk about how safety is created over time, why early rules aren’t a failure, and what actually helps relationships evolve without burning everything down.

In This Episode, We Explore:

• How Natalie moved from monogamy to swinging to polyamory
• Why boundaries and rules at the beginning of non-monogamy are about nervous system safety
• Letting go of control as trust and security grow
• What it really takes to live with a metamour (and why compatibility matters beyond love)
• Navigating age-gap relationships with intention and consent
• How infidelity can become a turning point rather than the end of a relationship
• Why non-monogamy isn’t about having less commitment, but more honesty
• How chosen family can expand your life in unexpected ways

Where to Find Natalie

• Website: https://nataliedavisadventures.com/
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@nataliedavisadventures
• Book: Saying Yes: My Adventures in Non-monogamy (available wherever books are sold)

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you ever think, okay, cool, but how did people actually figure this out without exploding their whole life? Then this episode's for you. Uh welcome back to Nope, we're not monogamous. I'm Alicia Payne, your non-monogamous coach. And today I'm talking with Natalie Davis, the editor of Polyamory Today, and the author of a new book, Saying Yes, My Adventures in Non-Monogamy. Natalie's gonna share like a really uh very real path from monogamy to swinging to polyamory, including what it's like to live in a V with her partner and her metamor, what boundaries helped her feel safe in the beginning, and why none of this is about getting it right. It's about staying honest, staying kind, and adjusting as you learn. Which I'm sure you guys already know. We talk about how the rules and the boundaries at the beginning are not a failure. They're a safety strategy and how they evolve over time and what it really takes to live with your metamor. Plus, uh a couple of other little goodies like age gap relationships, communication, and how non-monogamy can expand your life in ways that you never expected. Enjoy. Uh okay, so I wanted to ask you about your um so being that we're on nope, we're not monogamous, I would love to ask you about your um uh a little bit about your non-monogamy journey. And um, and I know you wrote an entire book about it. I'll try to give you the nutshell. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a little, give give us a little bit of like what your your background in non-monogamy is, because um I that that is that is why I started this podcast. Is um there's so many podcasts out there that'll tell you what to do, the right way to do things. But like anytime I was listening to those, I'm like, yeah, but how'd you figure that out? Where'd you where'd you what'd you do really before you were telling me what I'm doing wrong?

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, it's really just doing it, just experiencing it is that's that you gotta do it that way. And yes, there's help along the way, but the great thing about non-monogamy is you get to write your own rules, tailor it to fit you. And as you know, my personal journey, and this is why I wrote this book saying yes, my adventures in polyamory, is because it is not a place I ever thought I would be, ever, hadn't even heard of it. I've been with my spouse since college, uh, so pretty young, and we were in a very typical monogamous relationship. We met in college, we fell in love, um, I went to grad school, we talked about getting married, you know, after law school, and we were married. We even had we would been together many years before I even heard the word well, polyamory even came later. But I mean, I didn't even know what that meant. I'd heard of polygamy. I thought that's something Mormons do. I but yeah, the way this started um was my husband. This is kind of how the book starts because it's like the start of my journey, is pulled up a site on the computer and said, Um, I know what I want for my birthday. Please look at this site. And after you've read read through it, um, we can talk. Like, uh, what the heck is this? Okay, I never know what to get in for his birthday, so great. Um, so I look at this site and it's um, I don't even know how to describe it. It it was kind of vague, like here's a dance floor, and here is a pool table, and we have a hot tub, and meals are included. And once you click on this link, you will get more information. And so as I read through it, I was like, it was a swinger club, uh, which I didn't know there, these were real places. Maybe I had heard about them in the movies or heard about where people toss their keys into bowls back in the 70s. Like again, no, no idea. Um, and so this is what he wanted to do to go to a swingers club. And a little bit backstory there, that um he had had an affair like within the year before that. So things were shaky. I went through a lot with that. That's you know, also go through in the book, which is really hard for I think especially a lot of books are written now about Gen Z women and kind of the promises that were made to us about how we could have it all, we could have career and kids and I'm sorry, Gen X. What did I say, Gen Z? Um, and and and if we didn't, if we couldn't have it all somehow, like we were failing, right? So somehow something had gone wrong in my marriage, right? Because of this infidelity. So what do I do with this? I'm not prepared for this. This is not the way it's supposed to work. And I viewed this as, okay, clearly this is a part of him that he wants to explore. He can do it without me. He is inviting me to look into this with him after we've, you know, gone through the affair part. There's a lot that happened with that. Um, so I said, okay, I'll try this. So that that was how it started. After many years of monogamy, um we went to one swinger club. There were two within a close distance. We got somebody to watch our small child, and we went to a swinger club on Friday and a swinger club on Saturday. And I discovered we met a couple the second night um who were new to this like like we were, and just I don't I don't know how many listeners have been to swingers clubs, probably many, but this was you know my first weekend doing this. And syncing two people with two other people, two strangers. We were in the hot tub, we're talking about our kids and the PTA and where we went on vacation. It was like, except we're naked and we just met each other and we're in a swinger club. It's sort of this surrealistic environment. Um and then I discovered that having sex in a room in a bed with somebody I had just met, and that person's wife with my husband in the same bed did not wake me out. Like which I didn't know how that would feel, but um I was like, okay, I can kind of see what's going on here. He can kind of see what's going on here. There's a level of you know safety. Um, of course, he's you know, wants to make sure I'm okay. Um, and we can kind of see that each other are okay. We're not like staring at each other, I don't think, or anything, but you kind of have a sense that everybody's okay. And then afterwards we all are just like lying on the bed talking like we're at a barbecue. You know, it was oddly not odd. Um and that was probably, I guess, the best way to have your first experience that it was okay, and it like nobody freaked out, no one ran out of the room, nobody, you know, not that those experience didn't happen later, but at least my first experience wasn't like that. Um and so that's kind of how it started, and then getting on the sites, and you know, my husband basically managed all that because it's a lot of work, and I we did that on and off, but uh you know, I had a kid, we were kind of in the middle of our careers, a lot of stuff going on in our lives, so we, you know, were kind of dipped in and out of that. And it wasn't until my husband was deployed for the first time. I mean, he had kind of a Washington-based job, but then he was deployed and gone for almost a year. And he had started before he was deployed with polyamory. He had suggested that we date separately. He's like, there's this thing called polyamory, here's some books, we can talk about it. I was like, I don't have time for this, which I think a lot of women might say. And I know this from dating married men, and I'm like, okay, you're dating. Is your wife cool with this? Does she date? No, we've got three kids and she has a job and she doesn't so but I'm always suspicious a little bit, and I want to make sure everybody's consenting to this. But so that was me. And I suppose I was more tolerating it than accepting wholeheartedly when he said, I would like to do this. Uh, and I'm like, well, I mean, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. And as long as we discussed this and we were, you know, I had to have a lot of rules and boundaries at the beginning to feel safe. Um and we did that, and then when he and that kind of fizzled out that relationship, and then when he was deployed, he was gone for a few months, and he kept encouraging me to date if I wanted to, and even suggesting people that we had um had swinger experiences with that you know I felt comfortable with. And then I had my first solo experience um with somebody who was a very good friend of mine that I had met through the swinger scene, but we were really more friends, like we didn't weren't intimate that way. But then when I thought, well, let's let's see if maybe the two of us can do this. And and that was also a nice way to start because it was comfortable and we knew each other. I mean, it was still a little weird to get kind of like wear my sexy lingerie and drive to some guy's house who I knew for many years, but still it was a much different dynamic than the two of us going to a place or a party and knowing, you know, that my husband was gonna be there. And this was just me. This was like dating. And I hadn't dated since you know college. So this was a long time ago. Um, and then while he was away, I had a couple experiences and kind of like aha moments, like, oh, I now I see why he would want to do this, like the the validation, the excitement, the new connection, all of that. And it was not something like it was just mine, too. It wasn't like I was sharing this with three other people, um, and and then started developing more um long-term affectionate, fuller relationships as I went through my polyamorous path and then discovered metamores, his girlfriends, my boyfriends, wives, and all that whole new dynamic. Um so and that has led me here to having my nesting partner, husband, and other partners, and living with my metamor. And that's I guess the full circle.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

That's amazing. Oh, that's I love that you had very pleasant first experiences. Like that that's like an excellent gateway to like, you know, with people that have like really hard first experiences, it's like, oh, everyone after that, you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Uh I mean, I had that a little bit with my first um my first real boyfriend's wife as a like a metamore experience. That was that was rough. Um I learned a lot. Uh, but I think it there was like a chilling effect a bit. Um, I was a little gun shy meeting my next relationship's spouse. I was like bracing myself for trauma, unpleasantness, not on board. I don't know. And then when that didn't happen, that was lovely.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Um, but you just you don't know because while you can pick your other partners, you can't pick your metamores. Kind of, you know, when you get married, you know, your in-laws are who your in-laws are, or that's and you work through it because they are part of your life and they are important to the person who's important to you. Yep. And you have different kinds and different levels of relationships with your partners' partners. I've had some, I mean, where we're cordial to each other, some where we have our own outings together, um, and some that, you know, I don't see because they're comets and they only come here so often. But at a minimum, what's important for us that we are cordial and uh hospitable to people that come into our house that are our partners' partners, um, unless there's a reason not to be. And I've definitely had experiences, especially during COVID, where a metamore moved in because during COVID, just weird stuff happened and people needed people, and people who lived by themselves needed people. Um but living with your partner's partner that is complicated. Uh, that requires graduate level polyamory polyamorying. Yeah. Um yeah, so I learned a lot. I think we all did. Uh, and then the next time a girlfriend moved in, that was super slow, super intentional, lots of discussions. And I uh feel extremely fortunate to have I call her my marvelous metamore um that lives with me. And I feel super lucky and I truly try to nurture that relationship because it is important to me, like like a friendship, like a sisterhood, like and there's so many facets of that because we have an age gap too. But so I shouldn't say but, and she enriches our lives so much as well. There are so many things she knows more than me about. I mean, I have more life experience, but okay. I I mean this is her headset, and I'm she's telling me where the input and the output go, and yeah, she she knows a lot more about cooking than I do because it's a passion of hers. Um and she works in a related field that I used to work in, so that's something that I can help her with. Um and it and just that cannot work unless your expectations match also the way that you interact with your V and what you expect from that relationship. You can't be competing and living in the same house, um, which I learned, and um and it's nice that that works. Um it's like I have a younger sister, and I don't feel that we ever competed for our parents' love and and the way our relationships works worked because we were enough different in what interests us and where our passions were. You know, we weren't both like gymnasts and we were competing for who did the best. So so that's nice when there's overlap with your metamor, but enough differences. Um and it's I don't know, I feel like I should knock wood, but it it's still working and we've been living together almost four years.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

So I love that. That's so good. What were what would you say were the top, like what was the top lesson you learned from the first round of that?

SPEAKER_02 17:58

I don't think it's a failure that if your expectations don't match your personalities uh don't jibe and you you can't make it work, like God, people are just so different. And I don't I don't fault a person or feel that anyone failed or messed up like we tried, but I learned that I also learned what I needed in my house. And my house cannot be a pay a place where there is always a tension um an underlying current of competition, or I don't feel that now, but in the other relationship, it was so much about dividing up exactly half the amount of time and and that was exhausting and and it was because our expectations and our needs did not match, and that's okay, and that person I hope is getting her needs and wants met through a relationship where that just couldn't happen here. Um and so we talked a lot about that, and I could see from interacting with my metamorph that lives with us now how that worked. And if you could just see us preparing a meal, I mean, like we have our roles and it's just like seamless. We don't even talk. Um, she likes to cook much more than I do and not really like to shop. She works out of the house and is more likes to do things in the house. I'm the one that leaves the house. I do all the shopping and the errands and make sure, you know, what do you need? Is it on the list? And then at dinner afterwards, we clear the table. She and I put the food away, he starts washing the dishes. Um, we, you know, and it's just like this seamless way. Like he doesn't like to figure out like what container the leftovers go in, and that's like too much. But he put he's at the sink, he's washing all the pans, all the dishes that help to make this meal beautiful. He's the one because he likes the table, he likes candles. He's um much more romantic than I am. He picks the music for dinner, um, kind of a theme. I mean, if we're having a certain kind of food, he might try to find like, oh, if we're having like an Indian meal, he might try to find some music that goes with that. Or if we've all had a bad day and he knows maybe some chill music. Um, and we this is our our family time, is our dinners if we're all in the house. Um, the three of us do talk about our day, we talk about what else we've got going on, something we read in the news, whatever it might be. And I cherish that, I call it my family time. And so when one or more of us is traveling and we don't get to have those dinners, I really miss them, not just because of the fabulous healthy meals that are prepared, um, but the camaraderie and the calm and the love and and also just the fun because we sit there and we up we plan the next thing we're gonna do, a trip we might be taking, or a club we're going to, or the two of them might be going somewhere and I'm doing something else. Um so creating that family um again is something I never thought I would have. Um and I want to share that with people so that they know this is possible. That I consider myself like a regular relatively sane, grounded person who, you know, portraits pet sitting duties with my neighbors, who will bake something for the PTA bake sale, who had a a career, who raised a child, who pays her taxes. I mean, so I think there are a lot of people out there who might just not know, they hear about this non-monogamy, polyamory, that that's crazy, that's weird, that's you know, not for me. That's what um freaky people do. And that's I'm sure what's what I thought, if I can even remember back more than 20 years ago. Um but and it's but it's you know, it's not even just the interpersonal intimate relationships. I've met just so many cool people that I never would have. You know, just you go to some event and you just learn about a different kind of music or a different perspective or a way you thought about politics that you never thought, or um some hobby, or I don't know, just a quirky way that somebody does something, or I mean, especially dating younger men that will challenge you on your assumptions uh and your viewpoints. Um it's just broadened, like to broaden my life. Um all these it's open. Like I can see why a lot of books are called open. Um because it which I refuse to call my book open, but it does open your life like just laterally, just always like a petal and a flower. It's just like in all directions. You just never know where it's gonna where it's gonna take you. Um so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

That's I love that. That's amazing. That's so good. You know, I I it's like I feel like we have to be reminded that just because you love someone doesn't mean you're compatible to live together. We can be compatible in so many ways, but are we compatible to share a living space like when I'm sick or when I want the bathroom cleaned a certain way? Like, are we compatible in those ways? Cause because that's important too.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Oh yeah. I mean, I I took uh a trip overseas with a partner that I didn't see all that much. And we spent a week together and I thought, I like this time that we have, but oh my god, I could not live with you. You are a complete perfectionist. I now I appreciate why we can't see each other because when it comes to your work, you're 150% into it, which is great for you, and I love that you're passionate about it. But if I had to live with somebody like this, um that would not work. Uh so I will just enjoy this week. We have to get here too. And that and I can. So that's that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Um, I'm curious, going back to when you first opened up and you said you had lots of rules and and boundaries and agreements in place to feel safe. I'm curious what was the first one, if you can remember, what was the first one to go?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

I don't know if it was the first one, but definitely and part of this had to do with the person that my partner decided to date separately with. It was the person he had the affair with. So that was never gonna be great for me. So I probably had more rules than I might have. Uh, but I did not want her in my house. That was, and you know, that's pretty rough. Um, which is fine. They they worked around that, they went other places. I mean, I um certainly didn't want her in my bed. Um, I had this really kind of mean rule. Uh, we had a motorcycle back then, and we didn't get to ride it that much because we're sort of fair weather riders, and you know, someone, you know, someone would have to watch the kid, or so we didn't get to ride it that much. So I didn't want her to ride that. I'm like, that's our thing. You can't. I was very restrictive that way. It was we discussed how many times a month they would see each other. Um, but it once he got out of that relationship that was hard for me because of the way it started. His next relationship, when he got back from his deployment, she was over here almost every weekend because she lived with, like, had a roommate who I didn't, I don't think really approved of their relationship. She would, she was in grad school, she would be over here on the weekends, she would be studying, she'd have breakfast with us. She slept, we had a you know, extra room and she slept up there. So, kind of once I was okay with the person, and once I had experienced Polly myself, most of those rules completely fell away. Um, and I would say that now I don't know that we have any like we talk about things to make sh, you know, to make sure we're okay with it and it's more like scheduling, but I don't can't think of there's anything like you are not allowed to do that thing, and that is a boundary, and that is a rule with somebody besides me. Uh I think we have rules. I mean, I know we have rules a lot of times because of fear, you know. I I want and control. I needed to be able to control that relationship because it scared me. Yeah, uh, I felt threatened by it. And so as I don't feel that way anymore and I feel secure in the relationship that I have, you don't feel that you need to control them as much. But I I think people should have rules and boundaries and whatever they need to feel safe. And then, but also none of this has to be forever, and you need to talk about all of it. And if something happens that rubs you the wrong way and you think, oh, I didn't even know that was gonna bother me until it happened. And the other person might not have known either, but it's okay to say, hey, I know we said it was okay if someone slept in our bed, had sex in our bed, but now that you did it, and I'm not mad because we didn't talk about it, I think I want that to be a boundary. I think just be in the guest room. Yeah. And maybe that'll change over time, but that's okay. Like we're people and we don't know everything until we experience it. And there's no book that says, okay, for the first year, these will be your rules. And then you can move on the second year to less. I mean, yeah. And those rules are different in different relationships. Um, so it's hard when you read these advice books. They can give you some guidelines and they can tell you about some red flags, but you have to see what works for you and your relationships, and those relationships change. And you have to either change with them or move on. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

I think that's really helpful for people to hear that, like, you know, in the beginning, I had all these rules. I was trying to create a sense of safety for myself, and then it changed. I felt more secure, you know, because I think a lot of people who are, you know, they've they've opened up and and they're like, I don't, I don't want to feel restricted, or I don't want like the it won't last forever. Like things will change. And I think that's really important for people to know because they feel like this every decision we make, this is until we die, like getting married. Which which we know is not actually what what happens for the majority of people.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Yeah. I mean, I've had long-term relationships that have lasted longer than a lot of marriages. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

So yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I think it's so helpful for people to know like the things you put in place to feel safe, they're gonna change and evolve. And it's okay to change your mind. And and and I think the important part there is to not agree to things that you aren't willing to uphold. I think that's where people get stuck. They go, Oh, my partner wants me to agree to this thing, so I'm just gonna say yeah, because I want to be able to do some of this. And then they're resentful and they break the break the rules, right? Um, because they didn't really want to agree to it. And I think that's like, don't agree to things you don't want to agree to, or like set a time frame so you can go, let's revisit this idea. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

And and I have to say, I would this would never have worked if my husband had not have been not been a good communicator, and also in the wake of the affair, let me say everything I needed to say, let me yell, let me cry, let me be insecure, let me be angry, and he would listen. And when I would say something like, I don't want her on the motorcycle, and he's like, I hear you, uh I are you sure? Is that something you can think about for now? Yes, I will not have her on the motorcycle, but that seems like maybe not necessary. I and then, you know, and now I think about it, I'm like, that was just mean. I mean, that was just mean. But I it's the fear, like they say, jealousy is fear of something, it's and fear of loss, fear of those things that connected us. Um, and that can be really hard in polyamory as you see things that you shared and you connected with a partner, now them doing with someone else. And you're like, oh, does that is that diluting our bond? Does that mean he doesn't want to go on the motorcycle with me? And it's not that typically, it's usually like, well, there's just less time, maybe, if I'm, you know, playing I'm playing basketball with this one person, so I have less time to play basketball with this person. That that's more what it is. Um, but especially when you're starting, it's just like, oh, like he went to some restaurant that we go to. All right. Well, Guy Brain knows four restaurants, and that's it. Like, those are the four restaurants he goes to, and yeah, he goes to them with me. It's like I feel confident going to be a restaurant. So the fact that restaurant is like, I don't, I I know I like these four restaurants, so that's where I will take people. Um, but for me, uh, that was like, well, that's our place. It's like, oh gosh, and it's not even a special place, it's just you know, the place we go once a week because what we have a limited uh vocabulary, and when it comes to restaurants, because we know these are ones we like. And and it takes a while to realize that, to let go of it. But when you have a partner who is patient about that and is not pushing back and saying, I hear what you're saying, this is why we went to this restaurant, because this is just where I need to go. But if this bothers you, we won't go there. And then I have what he would call Natalie's arc. When I hear about something new, I'm not great with change. Immediately I'll say, Oh no, that's weird. I don't want to do that, or that's out of my comfort zone. Okay, I'll try it. And he's like, Oh, try it, see if you don't want to do it. Okay, that was actually okay. Let's let's try it again. Okay, yeah, I really like that. Okay, so why haven't we been doing that forever? You know, so with me anyway, you know, he's known me for a long time. It takes me a little while to see how something fits. I'm a kind of person that likes a lot of information ahead of time. I don't like to be surprised with, okay, I just met this person and they're coming over. I mean, now it I would be less concerned, but the shock of something new without being able to acclimatize or to plan for it. Um, because some of this is okay, well, if you're gonna have a date and you don't tell me, I need some notice so that I can plan what I'm gonna do with my time. That that only seems fair. I mean, I would that works both ways. So I don't remember what the question was, but um, I think just being able to to talk to each other, to listen, and then recognize that your partner might need some time to digest something, to experience it. And then, okay, maybe it's like that's something I don't want to do again, that doesn't fit for me, that's something that I do like. Uh, I think it's and I know that the whole process of opening up a monogamous relationship can take years. Uh, and I know people that that, and I have to say to them, I know one half of the couple really wants this, and the other half is not there yet. You cannot make the other person get there. Yeah. You know, you have to accept that. So if you're starting out monogamous, there's no guarantee that your other partner wants to do that. And that is something you have to grapple with. And people deal with that different ways. Um, some people cheat, and you know, maybe that's a way. I mean, Esther Perell, she put has that in her book, a whole state of affairs. She's written about it. It is a way people deal with that, and you're not trying to hurt your other partner, but maybe that's something you really need and you cannot find a way to negotiate. I'm not advocating, but that's one way. And another way is you just accept that you're going to be monogamous because of everything else that's important to you about that relationship. Yeah. Or you separate if you can't negotiate. So people have to figure out what they want to do with that. And certainly, since half marriages end in divorce, people come to points where they can't work things out. Um, but if you have options, and I have seen this more and more lately, especially just going to polytopia and talking to people at the conference, because I'm not so often surrounded by a lot of polyamorous people, like I know them, but here over the course of a weekend, everybody was. And talking to people who were in long-term marriages and had other partners, but the person that they lived with, they did not have an intimate sexual relationship with anymore. They still valued other aspects of the relationship, maybe the child rearing, maybe just their being their best friend, whatever it was about their relationship, they weren't ready to ditch it. Um so that is a way to keep the parts of a long-term relationship that you love and value, and have your needs met elsewhere, but being open and honest about it. So not cheating, but saying, hey, our relationship has evolved to the point where we don't do this thing together anymore. Um and yeah, if that thing is sex, that's much more charged than hey, we used to, you know, play video games all the time, and now we don't do that, so I'm gonna play video games with somebody else. Um, and sometimes so in this scenario, it's sex. I know it's you know not equal comparison, but um that's all I can. No, yeah. Um but the fact that then, you know, there's so much disruption with endings, and uh, and the way our society and our legal structure is set up, like divorce is just so disruptive to everyone involved and so expensive. And there's still a lot of times stigma attached to that, uh, in religion, in society, your family. So there's a lot of things to consider. And as a a young woman growing up, I always thought it was very black and white. You know, your spouse cheats on you and fuck them, they're gone. You don't need that in your life until it happens. And then you go, wow, what are my options here? Like, what is best for me? What is best for my kids, my family? What do I value about the relationship? You know, and those are a lot of hard, hard questions to ask and to ask yourself, ask your partner, and figure out. And yeah, I went through that and um I'm I like the place I ended up at. And um, everybody has to, you know, decide that for themselves. And it's nice, though, I think, to know that there are options. And that's again one of the reasons why I I wrote about this. I never thought I would write a book. I mean, I've written thousands and thousands of pages of legal briefs, that's completely different than writing about your own life. Um when I first started writing it, I didn't even put in there about the infidelity because I was so humiliated and so hard. Yeah. But I'm like, I have to. Like, that's I have to put that in there. Um, and I'm not the only person that started non-monogamy this way. Uh, and that's okay to know that and to share that, um, and to heal from it and find a path forward and a path that's actually growth. So I share that as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I love that. That's so good. That's so good. Oh, amazing. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Um is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share?

SPEAKER_02 40:10

I guess one of the things that I've become more passionate about lately is how we can normalize non-monogamy out in the world. And that was a presentation I did at a different conference at Southwest Love Fest. And that's something that Open Organization for Polyamory and Ethical Non-Mogamy is moving forward to introduce legislation in localities, in human rights statutes that protect non-monogamy. It's like a protected status that you can't be discriminated against in jobs or housing, like other protected statuses, like age and gender, and sexual orientation and race and religion. We add family and relationship structure. Um, because I know many non-monogamous people, myself included, could not be out, could not be who they were. I mean, I worked for an organization where that was was risky. Um, I had a child, I didn't know how like the neighbors would react. So I guess what I would say is to the extent that you can normalize it, and the way that I do it is just has it comes up in your life in conversation instead of saying my friend. Um, and I can do that because I have the safety to do that. Not everybody can, but you know, I'm shopping and I'm like, oh, that bracelet, my Metamore would just love that. Do you have that in blue? Um, or it's my boyfriend's birthday, and I think, you know, that was be something that he would like when my husband is standing right next to me. And if you can't be out, these are things you can do when you're out of town on vacation in an Uber, in a restaurant, and that's I think how we normalize it. And somebody might not say, Metamore, what the heck? What is that? But they might go home and Google it. Yeah. Or they might tell their friend, I heard this, what is that about? And they might have a discussion. And so now people are at least talking about it. And maybe it's not for them, maybe they think it's weird, but they're talking about it. So I guess that is something I would like to just move forward and say, hey, can we make this part of the conversation? Is there a way that when we teach kids about sex ed, instead of just putting a condom on a banana, we say, hey, also there are different relationships that you can have. Always be kind and considerate and communicative. But you are not restricted to the monogamous path. These are just options. But we don't we don't learn that. And I think definitely younger people are learning that now, but that's my non-monogamy advocacy pitch.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yes. Yes, I love that. I love that so much. Excuse me. Um, the the thing that I add to that for people to normalize it for themselves is getting community, other like meeting and knowing other non-monogamous people so you don't feel like you're a weird island all alone. So that, you know, like I'm doing a weird thing. I don't know. Like as you meet more people and you talk to other people, you start to feel like, oh, there's actually nothing wrong with me.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Oh, yes. That when I went to my first poly conference, poly living in Philadelphia, like in 2016, I'm like, look, my people, they're everywhere. That was lovely. Uh, highly recommend just going on on the Meetup app. You can also you can find a lot of poly meetups that way. Happy hours or potlucks or whatever it might be. Yeah, when I started out, I didn't have a lot of people to talk to. Uh, and that that makes a big difference. Listening to podcasts like this, going, wow, there are people like me, or maybe this is something I can talk to my partner about um with the advent of the internet. It's much easier. Yes, yeah, truly. Um, how can people find your book? So, like I said, it's called Saying Yes, My Adventures in Polyamory, um, by Natalie Davis. You can put that in the search bar for Amazon, Barnes and Noble Bookshop.org for your independent bookstores. Um my website is Natalie Davisadventures.com. Uh, I write stories on medium that are like a slice of life, usually my current life. Um, I probably got 40 or 45 stories on there. So I'm Natalie Davis Adventures on the Medium site. I'm on Instagram under the same handle. Uh, I don't post a lot. Um and the medium, the medium stories, those are things that resonate for me. They're they're not advice columns, they're experiences that I think others might be interested to hear about. They might resonate with them. Um, so I they're behind a payroll wall, but I always have a link that you can click after the first paragraph so that you can read them if you're not a member. So definitely just one, oh, let's just see what's going on in this person's poly life, and that might be something that is interesting to me. Um, or they've encountered a problem that I have also. So those are basically the ways that you can find me. Um, I am excited about the book. I mean, this is my first book, and uh It's yeah. Uh it's it's my life. It's and it's all true. I mean, the names are changed, but yeah, it's all in there. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

I love it so much. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Thank you so much for coming on. This has been fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Thank you. I, you know, I I love talking about this. Um, and if somebody gets anything out of it, then it's a win.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Yay! Oh, I have one more question for you. And this one, uh, this one doesn't go on the main episode, but goes uh to our supporters uh patreon.com slash not monogamous. And uh the segment is just the tip. And it's uh what is a favorite or best sex tip that you would give people? No pressure. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Thank you. You're welcome.