Polyamory and Divorce S.1 Ep.3

In this episode, I talk with Mags Baker, a polyamorous, non-binary, sexy divorcée living their best life in San Francisco. They work one-on-one with people to help them find freedom, gain clarity and manifest their juiciest desires. Currently, mags works with folks healing from divorce through healing  journeys, intensives, and retreats. They are often found leading sex-positive dance parties on zoom, teaching masterclasses, and hosting live guided meditations. 

Together, we discuss divorce, transitioning relationships, boundaries, and some of the juicy tools to make our lives better!

Join their facebook group HOT divorcé shit for all sorts of exclusive content and a community to let you live your best divorced/solo life here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/divorceland

Binge watch mags’ brilliant content and stay tuned to their stories for hilarious real-life updates: https://www.instagram.com/magsbakertheyshe/

Join mags’ email list to be the first to sign up for all mags’ future offerings: https://www.happymillennialmags.com/email-list

Divorce camp 

Bullet points of key topics & time stamps: 

• 1:01- Writing your own love story
• 4:34- Jealousy
• 6:31- Opening up a monogamous relationship
• 8:53- Divorce
• 13:12- Transitioning relationships
• 20:55- Tools
• 26:02- Society and relationships
• 28:42- Boundaries
• 40:12- Working with Mags
• 43:29- Getting it on in a Group

List of resources mentioned in episode: 

• Breathwork with Ellecia
• Ecstatic Dance with Mags
• Divorce Camp
• Getting it on in a Group

Calls to action: 

● Stay up to date with new episodes and offerings from Ellecia by getting on the list here

● Find Us Online

           - Website:

https://elleciapaine.com/call

Transcript

NWNM - Mags Baker

Wed, 6/30 8:05AM • 46:03

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, divorce, monogamous, relationship, boundaries, ecstatic dance, life, work, desires, heal, polyamory, explore, feel, feelings, dating, non monogamy, universe, partner, started, person

SPEAKERS

Mags, Ellecia

Ellecia  00:07

Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships, enthusiastic non monogamy, polyamory, swinging, kink, and our lives, you'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, nope we're not monogamous. Mags. Hi. 

Mags  00:39

Hi. 

Ellecia  00:41

I'm so stoked to talk to you because we've talked a lot in the past. Not a lot, but a bit in the past about this stuff.

Mags  00:49

Quite a bit, I would say yeah.

Ellecia  00:50

Yeah, I think so. Okay, so tell me this first of all, are you non monogamous, polyamorous? What? What's your like? What's your relationship?

Mags  01:01

Yeah, good question. So I was non monogamous for a year and then after my divorce, I'm like, Oh, I am polyamorous. So for the past four or five months, whatever November is, six months. Um, yeah, I've just been like living my solo Poly, divorcee, toddler parent best life and exploring into the depths of polyamory. And, for me, that really means knowing that I'll always be able to say yes to a love story that happens upon me for the rest of my life. And for me, that means deep, nurturing, intimate, fulfilling relationships with pals of all genders, some of whom I may Fuck, and some of whom I may bring flowers, and some of whom I may cuddle with.

Ellecia  01:57

I love that like, freedom of like, not just choice, but just like living in a way that feels like, you're like the path that that you need to follow rather than the path that's been laid out for you.

Mags  02:14

Ah, yes. Like the path that was crushing me the path that was given to me and entrained in me, and like this concrete box that I lived in for so long, and I was like, this is fine, this is fine. This is fine. Everything's fine. I love this. This is great. And then I was like, I want to I want to fall in love it 100 more times in my life. I just like knew that. And my darling ex husband, who's one of my besties and a PAL and maybe a future lover. I don't know who knows what the future has in store for us. But he and I opened up our marriage and so I got to explore non monogamy and he was open to doing that with me. So that allowed me to start fulfilling the desire I had for additional romantic relationships in my life and explore what that meant. For to have more. I've never dated more than a person moment in my life. And I never even really dated. I met my ex husband when I was 22 or something like that. And I just had like, summer boyfriend. So I had never been like an adult exploring a romantic relationship with someone new either. And, like, Wow, what an expander what an opportunity for growth. What an instant pot for communication. All the shits gonna come up, right? Like when your husband's on a date with someone and you like they might fuck for the first time. And that's the first time you're doing that. And you've never seen any really successful versions of that anywhere and you're like, Is this okay? Like all your shit comes up and that can either like jealousy is gonna come up Hello, we were entrained to have it like to think that we needed to own someone to think that we needed to not have our person have another person without be a threat to us. But like, if you want to explore non monogamy or polyamory, it's just a part of that learning process. Like I'm not going to tell you go through your life and anger is never gonna come up again. Just, you know, we just deal with our feelings, and we learn how to be adults. And we talk about that shit. I feel like I'm rambling, which is my superpower, but I want to give you a chance to ask any questions or provide feedback cuz I am.

Ellecia  04:34

Yeah, no, I love it. I love it. But I'm curious. Um, well, it's funny because people think that jealousy is like this thing to be avoided. Right? Like, it's this big, bad, evil, right? emotion but like it's an emotion and I see people say that they don't ever feel jealous. And I think Well, yeah, like, there's also people who never feel happy. Right? It's not the normal.

Mags  04:58

Right? And not that it doesn't mean that You're not jealous. I mean, monogamy doesn't mean you're not jealous. Also, because people who are in monogamous relationships get jealous as fuck about their boyfriend looking at another person or whatever, right? Like, it doesn't prevent it either.

Ellecia  05:12

Yeah, actually, that's something I've had clients come to me and say, like, I don't really feel jealousy in my relationship, and then they open up. And it's not that they don't feel jealousy, it's that they weren't confronted with anything. They created a relationship that didn't activate their jealousy. Wow. Right. And then they open up and they're like, Oh, actually, I'm super jealous. And I didn't even know this was in me. So I didn't even work on this before we got here.

Mags  05:37

Wow. Yeah, that's eye opening for me in this moment, because I'm like, working through my jealousy but like, also realizing that I could have a lot hidden in there, too. 

Ellecia  05:49

Yeah, yeah. Totally. 

Mags  05:52

Yeah, 

Ellecia  05:52

I think it's one of those. I said all the time. It's becoming like really cliche. I feel like for me, but you don't know what you don't know. I didn't know this was gonna be a problem. Right? 

Mags  06:05

I thought, Oh, this was mine. I thought I had a happy childhood until I thought about my childhood. Oh, cuz you don't know what you don't know. Right? Yeah. Once you start getting that, what's that, that magnifying glass to like, Look at yourself. It's like, you just go digging and you just go finding and you keep finding and finding out new levels, and it's just this delicious human experience.

Ellecia  06:31

I love it. It's so good. Okay, so tell me this, like what prompted you and your ex husband to open your relationship?

Mags  06:37

I feel like I did it. As I do everything because I'm fucking manifesting pussy royal. Which means I use sexual energy to manifest my desires through practices like sex, magic, and pleasure, and daydreaming in delicious pronoia universes with Tom Hardy and

Ellecia  07:01

daydreaming universe?

Mags  07:02

What the hell am I doing with my time, if not hanging out with Tom Hardy? In my mind, um, yeah, I just had this desire for a long time. And I actually remember talking to my bestie, who I just went to Big Sur with this weekend. And we were both like, Oh my God, my worst fear is that I'm gonna cheat on my husband, because I'm just gonna have to, like I would, I just felt the pull of other love stories so much. And I didn't really even know non monogamy is an option. At that point. I'm like, I guess I'm gonna be a cheater, and have to get divorced or whatever. Like, that's the only option, right? And then it just started coming to me like through movies that I was watching with my husband, like, it just kept coming up. And we were able to just like, talk about it and talk about ideas of it. And like, it was just a topic. I played the long game, I played the long game change management. But I just let it happen naturally, as I do with all my desires, if I have a desire, I tell it bespoke it to the universe. And then I let it unfold naturally and non monogamy was the same. And that's the same with all my future sexual desires. Now, like I'm not trying to rush anything, I'm just going at the right speed and allowing my desires saying yes to my desires as they come to me because they're coming to me. And then I either say yes or no. And I like just really knew I wanted to fall in love with someone else at that point. And I didn't really know what else was calling me. But it was just like, it was a calling, like, I needed to explore other love stories. And my husband wasn't like, he was on board. He was he was more just like, well, everything's fine like But okay, sure, we can try a new thing too. was like, went along with it and was down with it. And like, was there to work through all the hard stuff around opening a long term monogamous relationship, and has been there through the divorce in the change, the changing of our relationship, and we're just doing divorce in such a different way. Also, because we got to try non monogamy and polyamory. Like when the week after I moved out in November, he and his girlfriend came over to pick up the kid and the dog and I like give them both hugs. And it was lovely to see them because we're just like, we're transitioning our relationship to a partnership full time, cohabitation primary romantic partnership. monogamish Whatever. Um fully entwined social life, fully entwined decisions about everything in life, fully entwined financial status, we're gonna sleep in the same bed together. Like everything is together. We're like, let's try, we just do it. Let's get some space. And I just really needed space like I had been, I'd never lived alone. I just started exploring myself. And I was like, I didn't like that. I didn't like all that. And I didn't know what I didn't like about it, but I just didn't like all that and I needed some space. And we're like, well, let's, let's take some space and work through it and talk and do this in a way that doesn't traumatize our child. Like, let's be adults. Let's be calm. Let's just like I love you still. We're just not gonna fuck anymore, and we're gonna live in separate places for a little while, and see then what happens with our life and we're just gonna be cool about our finances and not do anything about the paper down at the courthouse, but like, you know, we're just doing whatever the fuck we want. And we're just like, continuing to have the conversation. So throughout the four months, that I that we were doing our there was like, kind of my, just, I need four months away to even just, like, start to unwind and unpack what I want. Um, we kind of like decided to keep going at this separate living situation at it for the inevitable future. And he was like, right at a place, and he has his own place, and I'm doing Nomad stuff now. And we're like, becoming best, better and better friends and people together. And like, I've never loved him more. And we're like, badass parenting team together. And like, I call him when I'm crying, having hard time about parenting, like, he's my, he's my partner still, right. And it's just like a different way. We're just living separately, and I'm exploring solo polyamory and pansexuality. And soon to be a group sex and, and all of my stuff, too. So, yeah,

Ellecia  11:21

I love that you have created like this really, really beautiful flow from one like version of your relationship into another version of your relationship into another version of your relationship and just like created a life that works for you and for him and for your kid. And that's just I love the intentionality of it. It's gorgeous. Yeah, really good. I think. I think a lot of people I don't know, I think we have this idea that if you're getting divorced, it has to be because one of the people involved is a terrible person. Right? Right. Like you must salvage it, you must die together, unless their evil.

Mags  12:07

And most of the time, keep them if they're evil, because someone else, grasses. There's another evil person over there, right there. Cuz, yes, I know, my sister said to me, when I was in my, like, I lived in her room for a minute to just like, wrap my head around what I wanted to do. And she was like, you don't have to have reasons that your husband like, is bad for you to want to get a divorce, you can just want to get a divorce. And I was like, What? What do you mean? I was like, ready to convince myself of all these things? And it's like, no, like, I can just, we can just want to now do a different thing. And I was like, Well, what is what voice is telling me that? Like, it's the voice of society, which says, Only lifelong commitment with two people, mostly one man and one woman, let's be honest, and all other media, but whatever. That's the only measure of success. And I just refuse to fucking believe that there are miserable people that are married, like there are miserable people that are non monogamous. There are miserable ethical slut, there are miserable people all over, just do whatever the fuck you want.

Ellecia  13:12

100%? Absolutely. I'm curious what you would tell people who want to transition their relationship like what would be like the top? I don't know. Yep. What would you tell them?

Mags  13:25

Yeah, ask for space if you need it. So All I knew is that I wanted something different. And I didn't know what it was. But I knew that I wanted to ask for space. And I knew that that might hurt someone's feelings, or everyone's feelings, or be a bad decision or cause someone to go at whatever, like every scenario scenario is running through my head, but I knew that that's what I needed to. So whatever that space means, like going away for two nights on your besties couch for free to like, just soul search and microdose mushrooms and do whatever you need to do. But get some space to evaluate what you want. And like, if you like explore your desires, get some space. First one second one, explore your desires in that space. What do you want, like unlock your mind, from what everyone's been wanting for you your whole life and allow to flow to you what you would do if you could just do anything. If you could just do anything, and this is what I talk about this pronoia all the time and I lead pronoia meditations for all my clients. And it's like this really intense energy that just like magnifies whatever we're working through. And so pronoia is this concept. It's the opposite of paranoia. So paranoia, we think everything is out to get us all the time and pronoia we think everything is out to like, have rock us on, and solve everything for us and fix everything and we lead everything and we just get to like, chill. So it's just this universe that I daydream in. And that's how I allow my desires to appear is when I'm in pronoia. Because wouldn't people just like wouldn't the easiest best way be if people just fell into your life and want to pay you for the thing that you're really good at? And like, literally, that just happened to you?

Ellecia  15:24

I totally did it. You know, I've heard you talk about pronoia before, but I didn't know what it was. And I fucking love this idea so much.

Mags  15:32

It's so good. And I asked like newbies, my Whoo, curious folk who are like new to this thinking of energy to even just imagine it as like a universe or like, you know, like, a movie universe where like, you're in a movie about pronoia. Like, then what would happen? And just like, allow yourself to daydream. And I always like to take my clients on these like two level daydreams where we Daydream, like, what would you do? And we get to this next level, and we feel the feelings of this next level. And then we ask that again. Now, what would you do? And that's where we get to the real desires, because our first desires or the desires that we think are attainable, right?

Ellecia  16:13

Yeah, something practical,

Mags  16:14

right? No matter how big of a dream you are, but then once you get to this next level, like you're my crown chakra is like, Whoa, you just, like expand into this connection to the universe and allowing your desires to appear for you in this like visualization, energetic feeling, knowing type place. And yeah, it's so good. Get some space. Yeah, get some space, get into pronoia and allow to see what your desires are. And then just be brave, take it one day at a time, do what's right for you, whatever that means, for a transition any relationship, whether it means opening up, adding a new partner, or closing out a relationship with a partner or turning a friendship into sexual, changing a co parenting status, like whatever it is, our relationships can be ever evolving. 

Ellecia  17:02

Earlier,you mentioned how intertwined your marriage was and how like everything. And I think that that's like, that's the kind of the social standard, right? If you get married everything together, you have all the same friends, you share how you watch movies together, you sleep together, you travel together, and anytime you show up somewhere without your partner, people go, Well, where's your partner?

Mags  17:22

I know, been very annoying for 13 years. cuz I've been independent this whole time. But like, Yeah, what the fuck? Yeah, so

Ellecia  17:32

I think, I really believe that that is an important first step is disentangling some of that disentangling and having some autonomy. I especially tell that to people who come to me who are monogamous and thinking like we want to open our relationship. Yeah. And the first thing I tell them is start there. Start disentangling your relationships that you kind of have your lives and then reassess. Yes, you need it. Right, like take some space, and then see what you really need.

Mags  18:01

Yes, and even live separately from your partner. And no, you can still be boyfriend, girlfriend, or whatever you want to right? Like, you can live separately with your romantic partner. And like, who also says that just because we wanted to have even if we want to have a monogamous life partner, why do we have to live with them and sleep in the same bed with them? Like, I need to sleep in my own bed several nights a week. And it just yeah, that's, that is kind of where I always started with just disentangling it's like, I just want to have my own friends and do my own thing and have a lot of space. And yeah,

Ellecia  18:37

and have lots of stories that I can bring back and talk to you about, so we never get bored with each other. 

Mags  18:41

See, ya, wanna miss ya, bye. Yeah, and even it's what I'm what my husband ex husband and I are doing right now is like a version of that to like, just even more space like disentangaling romantically for now and amongst all the other things, and it's like, then we'll just reassess. I'm just going to constantly reassess for always, I don't need to let my fears of what may happen in the future hold me back from doing what feels right in the now moment.

Ellecia  19:09

I love that so much. Okay, tell me, what do you think has been the biggest challenge of transitioning your relationship?

Mags  19:19

Yeah, it's my own trauma responses and feeling like I'm in trouble when my husband had feelings about our relationship and just going right into codependency you know, just childhood trauma, shit like, that. I hadn't sorted through and just kept coming up. And it was a chance to sort through a lot of it. Yeah, cuz I was like, those triggers are a blessing. Like when a trigger happens like you're like, cool. Where Where can I dig this up? Hello, hello, sweet little roots of this problem. Okay, cool. Oh, I never felt like my wants and needs mattered as a child. Okay, that makes sense. Why I then created this whole spiral forever for the rest of my life.

Ellecia  20:01

Let me play this pattern out again. 

Mags  20:02

Yeah, I don't think I want this one anymore. Thank you so much love and gratitude for keeping me safe for all of this time. Let it go, because it's like, I'm not gonna start a new relationship and keep all of the same patterns, or like, and that's one of the things I worked through with all of my clients who are getting divorced, too, is like, okay, let's look, let's take 100% responsibility for our part of all of this, whether we're playing into our own victim, or like, we're not thinking about our needs, or whatever it is, like we all have 100% of responsibility with each relationship we transition through, and being able to look at our part and figure out where our shit is. Let's not carry all that garbage into our next relationships, whether they be romantic, business, platonic, whatever. Yeah.

Ellecia  20:55

What do you think are the like, what tools have worked best for you? Like for me, I love breathwork and journaling and like those are my tools. All the time breath, work, breath work in journal and I'll do other things,  I talk to people and and do other practice. Yeah, those are kind of my go to what are your go tos?

Mags  21:13

I want to actually know exactly your breath through breath work routine, because I need like to do 30 days of something for a good reset. Oh, yeah. Yes. Oh, okay.

Ellecia  21:23

I'll tell you so I love I am trained in in therapeutic breathwork. And so we do a faster than normal breath, kind of an open mouth relaxed jaw. I like to put on loud music. Wow. And I usually lay on my bed because I have a big bed so I don't have to worry about falling off of it. I'm a mover I breathe with full breaths. Like I like I'm getting all my air and I'm getting all my air out. So you're not hyperventilating? Right? Yeah, just allow my body to do whatever it wants to do any impulse if it wants to shake if I want to kick if I want to do downward dog. If I if I feel sound bubbling up in my throat, I might. Yes. Cry. And I just allow all these like impulses to come out. Yeah. And it's so like, I'm not thinking about my life. And I get to the end and I'm like, Oh, that was really therapeutic. I don't know what happened but damn, I feel good. And now I'll journal about it. Yes.

Mags  22:23

Yeah. Yes, yes. Yes. Ah, well mine similar to yours nine is ecstatic dance and journaling. And yeah, ecstatic dance came to me right around the our non monogamy opening up of our marriage, because quickly, very quickly, once I realized I wanted to make out with boys, as many as I could and have the ability to do so. I immediately realized, oh my god, I'm terrified of men who have completely been completely avoiding them for my entire life. So I have a man wound. Okay. Thanks, magnifying glass. This is gonna make dating men interesting. That's just who I was interested in dating at that time. Now it's everyone Hey, oh, but man wound men like this is if I'm going to be exploring romance outside of my hetero marriage. Like it needs to be a man that feels like the easiest thing and most delicious at the time as well. The most. Yeah. Anyway. I was like, okay, man, wound. And ecstatic dance just came to me. I was at a party in Topanga Canyon. And someone's like, oh, have you tried ecstatic dance and then the next week, I like opened the newspaper and it was like, ecstatic dance and it just I was like, Okay, okay, I will go doing setting now. And I started going like a few weeks before I met one of my current partners and like, healed through ecstatic has had been healing through ecstatic dance this whole time and first in person and then over Zoom for a pandemic. And oh, my gosh, it has been so healing to just get into my body with other people on the screen and have a ecstatic dance DJ play a set, which is a whole spiritual experience. That is like a journey from start to finish, that's about 90 minutes. And it just like takes you and again, just like you would breathwork it I just like let my body just like move However, it's going to move and I'm just like, it's just working out whatever we need to work out. It's just moving through like it's just cleaning out this energy moving through any shitty thoughts that I started to believe yesterday. Just like, pushes them out anything, any old patterns, and I'm ready to go. I just like feel it moving through me. And partnering that with journaling, like the intentions that I have while journaling the things that I'm calling in like, I manifested a sexy ass divorce through and what I mean by manifesting is like building with intention and using energy to like expect the best possible outcome and allow it to come and explore my traumas and triggers that are telling me that I can't or won't happen. And yeah, allowing it to unfold in the easiest and most delicious ways, ways was mostly just getting out of my own way. And stop being such a jerk and just be really fucking humble.

Ellecia  25:32

Yeah, I think there is there's this with that kind of movement and getting out of your head and really getting into your body. It's like, it's like you You shut off. Shut off completely. But you definitely like bypass that cortical control that like overthinking over processing, replaying every conversation in your head. You can't do that solidly in your body and feeling energy in your body and feeling the movement and the flow. And yeah, so good. So good. Okay, I have a question. I asked everybody this what is the most inappropriate or awkward or intrusive things someone has said to you or asked you about your relationship styles?

Mags  26:15

Well, I try not to really talk to anyone that has intrusive questions any more. You learn right? Yeah. But yeah, like, I just asked me about my new lovers dick size, I think probably from like, horny, monogamous moms. Like they just want all the juice, which I'm like, I'll tell you. What's like juice. Like, not necessarily dick size, but more about, you know, my experience and all the fishy and delicious things. But yeah, I mean, in general, people have been like, like, men have been asking me about my red pubic hair since I was like, 11. That's like the most inappropriate, instrusive thing.

Ellecia  27:00

yeah, that definitely is 

Mags  27:02

So now. But people were like, oh, aren't you jealous? Like, aren't you jealous? That's so basic. Come on. ask you some better than that. Right.

Ellecia  27:10

Get creative here. Yeah. No, I'm basically perfect. I don't experience jealousy. Yeah,

Mags  27:19

exactly. Not a human. Not a human over here. Yeah. Or like I, oh, I couldn't just have sex with people, strangers all the time. And I'm like, Well, I don't either. And also you anyone can and there's nothing wrong with that. But like, that's not just like yelling their misinformation at you in a judgmental way. Right. Never. Right. Bye.

Ellecia  27:44

Oh, that's fun. I really wonder like, I've heard that before, too. Like, I couldn't. I couldn't sleep with strangers. And I think like, at what point? Are they no longer a stranger? What is what is the definition? They're like, 

Mags  27:58

if they're licking your pussy, are they a stranger? 

Ellecia  27:59

If they got to the point of like, wanting to take off my clothes, they probably aren't a stranger anymore. Right? Not all cases that that is definitely a thing for some people. But like in most cases, by the time you're having sex with them, they aren't stranger anymore.

Mags  28:15

Oh my gosh, it's just it's people's repressed shame. Sexual shame is showing I'm like your patriarchy showing. It's okay. It's okay. I can respond with kindness. And then, you know, go on my way protect my own energy to have my own boundaries. So, yeah, I like don't defend myself anymore, either. So someone asked me a question. I'm like, I don't want to talk about it. Have a lovely day. I'm gonna go get a smoothie. See you at the park next week.

Ellecia  28:42

That's fantastic. Okay, tell me tell me talk to me about boundaries.

Mags  28:47

Oh my god. Well, I never had them for such a long time and time in my life was so miserable of people all over me. And I didn't do anything. I like had no joy. So yeah, and I'm learning. I am learning them. Every new venture means also a new adventure and boundaries. Now I'm learning business boundaries, work life business boundaries. As an entrepreneur, I literally just decided with my fancy business coach this morning that I need to have Saturdays no business, I'm just a person on Saturdays now that my business is growing. And I have a team and these are the ideals I want. I would like to have a day where I'm not thinking, How do I make money, right? And I'm having that now. That's my boundary with myself like no, I'm not going on social media at all on Saturdays. I'm going to do tech Shabbat from Friday to Sunday. I'm like, taking this time back for myself. And I'm now setting even like it's uncomfortable setting boundaries all the time still, but I just like I'm like well, fuck it I get I gotta do it all the time or else my life will just suck. So boundary, boundary, boundary, boundary, boundary, boundary, boundary, and I'm learning also to ask for what I want and need on top of the boundaries to which is so hard for a third child, person. Yeah, it just is so hard. But I'm the I'm like, What's the hardest thing I could do today? Okay, let's do that. What am I most scared of? Okay, let's try that because that's how I'm going to stretch. And that's how I'm going to grow. And that's how I'm going to find the most delicious things in life. Ah,

Ellecia  30:21

yeah. What do you think it takes to start setting boundaries? Like what what is the thing that shifts when you actually start putting yourself and your needs ahead of like what everybody else wants?

Mags  30:35

Oh my god, it's like a crack. I don't know. I feel like I just cracked out of it like, something in me was like, I can't do this anymore. And I just like, I just like open my eyes to like, Where am I letting everybody walk all over me. And once I could see it, I was like, Alright, I don't have to do this all in one day. I don't have to be big and brave and bold in one day, but like I got to start seeking my wants and needs and people may react poorly to that because they haven't for most of my life. And I can be okay with that. I've survived and I just was like, going about my fears. Like what else? What am I afraid of for standing up for what I want and need and what lies on the other side of asking her what I want in the end mostly and setting boundaries like the life that I actually want and every boundary I want I always want to like not just not want things like not feel uncomfortable so with boundaries It's not that I don't want to feel uncomfortable I want to LOVE setting boundaries and I want to like mmmmmm, know that every no that I say or every I'm sorry, I can't do that or please don't talk to me I do is a yes to me and is like literally pulling energy from a leaking source back into myself and letting me shine brighter and then I shine brighter. And guess who can see me the better person opportunity thing manifestation Dreamhouse whatever it is, like when you say no, you literally scooch up to call in the next better thing. It's just like such an up leveler. So once I was able to change seeing boundaries as like, a sexy, delicious way to honor myself and my better futures ahead of me and my pronoia self like, Huh,

Ellecia  32:23

oh, god, yes. I love that so much. I think for me, it was this realization that I was so scared of losing love or being abandoned that I was constantly abandoning myself. Just like, like I was, I was totally settling for like, this is good enough. Because what if I don't ever get the things that I want? Yeah. And then when I realized that, like, I could say no to just good enough. And I always got the things that like that I really wanted. not everything in the whole world, like, nobody's handed me $12 million. But like, when myself and I set boundaries, like things get really good.

Mags  33:05

Things just appear. The universe is like, oh, bitch, it's on like the universe works with boundaries, the universe sees you use and boundaries and gives you better. Yeah, gives you more. Yeah, yeah. 

Ellecia  33:18

Like, I'm not gonna take anything below this line.

Mags  33:20

Okay. Right. And then you know, that old lover might circle back. And that's your opportunity to show the universe that you mean it. Like if you set a boundary, but then the follow through is the actual most important part. So when that old lover comes around, and you just told the universe, you're not going to do anybody who doesn't love and adore you and worship your pussy or whatever. Then you got to say no to that actual person, for the universe to bring you the actual person. So it's like about setting the boundary and then standing in the boundary. And that's the uncomfortable part for so many of us too. Because this is where we think everyone's gonna hate us. Everyone's judging us, we're gonna be in trouble. People are gonna come after us. Like, whatever it is why we're not standing, setting our boundaries or speaking our truth to begin with, but we can live with those uncomfortable feelings and we can feel them and then let them go and then be back in our fucking power and make our decisions and live our best life from our power.

Ellecia  34:18

Oh, yes, I use this analogy a lot. Starting to set boundaries for me felt like, even with like people that I love. It was like, I set a boundary. And then I just stayed there like a rock in the middle of the river. Like, I'm just solid. I'm staying here. I'm not moving around, I've. I'm not floating. And everyone else is the river and they had to find their way around me. Right and different things could float towards me. And if they didn't fit my boundary, they just bounce off the rock and keep going. And then and then when I felt solid in that, then I would just get up and become another rock and set another boundary and let the river flow around me and everyone else would find their way. They find their way to Be comfortable with it or to get lost or to be like, totally I'm like embracing you whatever it was.

Mags  35:07

Yeah. Can you give it like a specific what was like a specific boundary that you set

Ellecia  35:12

when I started? So so my husband, I have never been monogamous together. We both were previously married monogamously. And both of us went well, not doing that again. At least I was not doing that. Yeah. And so when we got together, we started out with like, some swinging and had some like friends with benefits, but we did pretty much everything together. Yeah, so when I started dating on my own, that was more difficult for him. Because in the early part of that I was deconditioning. So much like internalized monogamy. And I could not go and date people on my own, while also dealing with that it was like too many things. Right? So I had to get really comfortable. And so when I got comfortable and started dating, then he got really uncomfortable because he hadn't dealt with that yet. I have dealt with him dating but he had not had to do right and and so I just took these baby steps and was like, This is what I'm doing. This is what it looks like, I'm staying right here. I'm not bouncing around or going really fast. This is what I'm doing and the time and space to find his way around it. And the work like integrate and work through the feelings he was having and like have conversations, but I was like this is what I'm doing. Yeah, I'm not gonna change my mind and backpedal because you're feeling uncomfortable. And I'm totally conditioned to backpedal all the time to make the people I love feel comfortable.

Mags  36:45

Before I even stepped all the way up, I like to back that I like to step out of my backpedal, right back right back, get on back when we come back there. No one yells at you.

Ellecia  36:54

Hey, yup, Oh, God, that fear of confrontation is so hard. 

Mags  36:59

It's real. It's like everything bad is about to happen.

Ellecia  37:04

And now you're being kicked out into the desert, and a lion is gonna eat you and you're dead.

Mags  37:09

 Yeah, exactly. 

Ellecia  37:13

Yeah, so that's, that's, I mean, why did every every step of the way every time someone around me gets uncomfortable with the decisions I make? I just, I am steady in that. Yeah. Rather than bouncing around, because in response to other people, just steady in my desires.

Mags  37:28

Yeah, I'm just learning that and just living in that and just standing in that and it is so beautiful. 

Ellecia  37:34

It feels immensely better And there's actually, it kind of reminds me, a lot of people say to me, you know, I have I have three partners. And people say to me, Oh, my God, like I have such a hard time. It's so much emotional labor and so much work having one partner, how do you do with three? And my response is that it's actually totally different and not easier. But like, when you stop putting all of your energy in, into making sure that that one person is always happy and always comfortable, and everything is good for them, regardless of what's going on for you when you stop doing that and let them like manage their own feelings and let them speak their own desires and their own boundaries. Then, right, it takes so much less energy and like emotional work.

Mags  38:25

Yes. Yeah. Like two adults just like stating their needs together for the betterment of everyone involved.

Ellecia  38:35

What? That's crazy. 

Mags  38:39

Oh, my gosh, yes, I'm like, Okay, so I'm starting a new romance. I'm transitioning a friendship into a romantic relationship. Soon in June, we have it scheduled. Yes. And it's like, I just I'm like here, here's where I am. I have these partners I have do this, I am available for this. This is what I am interested in. This is what I want long term perhaps like, I just like say it and then they tell me what all their things and we're like, cool. I like before we even did this spiel I was like, we're friends and I love being friends with you. And also I have romantic and sexual desires with you. And just like said it and then they were able to respond like, Great, let's explore it. Here's what this means for me. And I'm like, here's what this means for me and they're like, when are you free? June right? And now we're gonna have this because that's like I we're on the same page about so many things already. We can just explore the freedom of just being in the moment and falling in love together. Like without all that other garbage in the way. Does he like me or like, right, like, we just talk about that shit.

Ellecia  39:58

Should I text them back? 

Mags  40:03

Do you want to hit then? Yeah, yeah. 

Ellecia  40:07

Okay, tell me this Tell me about your business.

Mags  40:12

Oh my goodness well I'm a badass CEO I run a digital company, not to brag that is growing deliciously and quickly after seven and a half years of 0k launches I know make money hey oh and so I'm a high level healer I am a director I'm a creative I'm I am too many things to have titles for multi hyphenate as they call it in the biz. But as of right now I'm helping people heal through from their divorces or the end of their long term relationship. So I being an entrepreneur and being on the entrepreneurial journey and being on the non monogamy journey I have like really honed in on my healing on my development on my mindset on my like, how to learn and grow as quickly and as well as possible. And so when I saw my divorce in my forefront, I'm like, I gotta be in pleasure, I got to heal, I got to do mindset, I got to watch my triggers, like I knew exactly what to do to move through that. And divorce whether divorce or an ending of a long term relationship, whether it's everyone's in good terms, or everyone's in bad terms, or whatever the status is, it's a traumatic event. Like your what you thought was your whole future is now completely different. So like, and you now have, just like there's so it's a traumatic event, and we all need to heal from that. So I'm on a mission for the rest of this year just to help bring divorce into the limelight and stop having so much shame about divorce. There's no reason anyone should feel shame about ending a relationship. The patriarchy and the Roman Catholic Church are sure going to try to tell ya, you should feel shame. But don't listen, you don't need to you can get divorced for whatever reason you want. And once you get divorced and you need to heal, you can come to divorce camp, which is my luxury divorce healing intensive in Palm Springs in June over the solstice and the full moon it's going to be legit. Only four spots. So snag one ASAP for anyone listening who is in the $10,000 heal myself type of week. And I encourage you to think about how much you spent on your wedding and then how much you actually deserve to spend on yourself to heal from your divorce. But if you're more like a $250 bitch I'm having divorce club is relaunching for the second season this summer and it's a Zoom digital digital healing journeys series that I'm gonna be taking everyone on over the course of this. So follow me over on Instagram on the gram that's where all my good shit is released over at mags Baker, they/she and come heal your shit. And if you're not getting divorced, and you want to get in on all my shit, follow me over there too, because I do other cool shit.

Ellecia  43:06

Following everything that you do, it's brilliant. And you have such beautiful, beautiful energy and I love talking to you so much.

Mags  43:14

I love talking to you so much. I'm so glad I could come on your podcast and I am just I'm so excited to listen. I'm like subscribe When can I subscribe? Amazing your your graphics and I'm your client, remember, I took your group course getting it on in a group A Oh,

Ellecia  43:34

god, that was so much fun. I love that class so much. And I'm going to be adding more to it in a couple of months.

Mags  43:39

Oh, yeah. Amazing. I'm sure all of your listeners are going to be just like ravaged for the next time you do the live version. Because, A, it was great information, like people could bring their questions but be it was like all these people who also want to have group sex. So it was like a community hangout for people who are interested in having group sex.

Ellecia  43:58

Like, so how do we actually do this?

Mags  44:04

Yeah, and your spiel. I mean, to this day, I'm like, when I consider new romantic partners, I give them a spiel that also involves sexual status, but also involves all of my other things, including trauma and how I like to be touched and wet and my words of affirmation and everything. So the spiel the spiel is like, Ah, so good.

Ellecia  44:22

Oh, thank you. I love that so much. I love hearing that people are using it. It's like, I don't know it was this momentary kind of splash of inspiration while I was writing the course. And I was like, yeah, we you need to have practiced what you're going to say to people that you're gonna have sex with because it shouldn't be awkward. You shouldn't feel shame and judgment and weird things about telling someone that you like anal or whatever. Right? Like this is what gives you pleasure. Are you down to do this thing? If you're not tell me so that I'm not asking you to.

Mags  44:57

Right! Exactly. Oh my gosh, Let's cut through all the bullshit. I love it so much. Let's cut through all the bullshit and have awesome sex right?

Ellecia  45:07

That should be my tagline. Exactly. Take it out have awesome sex. Yeah. I'm gonna click this button here. Thank you so much for listening today. It would mean the world to me personally, and would help us keep this little podcast going. if you would subscribe, leave a review, or share this episode with your friends. For more personalized support with your own relationships, we can work together on a one to one basis, just visit my website at elleciapaine.com and schedule a free call to chat about life the universe in your relationships. Bye