Proper Strength Training, The 4 Levels to Nutrition, & Navigating Mindless Eating with Herman Lynn

On this episode of Transformation Talks, we're joined by Herman Lynn, a fitness and nutrition coach who shares no-BS fitness advice that actually works, because of his focus on simple, sustainable changes over quick fixes.

We had a great chat about proper strength training, the four levels to nutrition—The Fad Dieter (1/4), The Learner (2/4), The Macro Master (3/3), and The Truly Free One (4/4)—navigating mindless eating, and more!

You can connect with Herman on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/hermanlynnfitness/

Here's his podcast (Fit For Life) with Brooks Coleman: https://open.spotify.com/show/7pvjswQEQMfhMAcABnPLMA

You can ask me any questions you have on what we covered here: mail@samforget.com

To get more support, apply for coaching here: https://samforget.com/coaching/

Or get started with my one-stop nutrition guide: https://freenutritionguide.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome back to another episode of Transformation Talks. I am your host, Sam Forger, and today we'll be joined by Herman Lynn, a fitness and nutrition coach who shares no bullshit fitness advice that actually works and focuses on simple and sustainable changes, not quick fixes. Herman, thank you for joining us, brother. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

What's up, man? You summed it up perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Beautiful. I'm glad. Before we dive in, for anybody who is unfamiliar with you, I would love just a quick backstory, how you initially got into fitness, um, and then obviously turn to making it into a career. I think that'd be a really interesting thing for people to learn about.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Cool. It's just uh how quick is the question.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I trust your judgment.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, I I mean, to give you kind of like the the long story short, um, I I mean, I am not I'm not like most fitness coaches or personal trainers. I I didn't come, I didn't grow up in the fitness industry. You know, I went to school uh at a Big Ten school and went into business, got an accounting degree, which I never ended up using. I still have an accountant and used TurboTax before that. Um but you know, I went into the corporate world, um, worked, did the whole thing, right? Work 40, 50 hours a week. Uh, I still have a job in the corporate world, although in a different um environment than before for sure. But, you know, for me, it was really, I grew I grew up playing sports most of my life. So high school nutrition wasn't even like I just housed pasta, chicken parmesans, you know, and I was just burning off like thousands of calories a day, probably from practicing every, every, you know, two hours every day. College comes, and it was just like the quick, you know, freshman 15 is a real, real thing. Um, and it was just, you know, that was like my first glimpse of, oh, okay, like I'm not good, like I can not be skinny, right? Like before that, I was like, it doesn't matter how much I eat. Um, and then kind of started getting into like, okay, how do I, you know, what do I do now without someone forcing me to practice two hours every day, right? Um, because that that was hard. It was hard to like be motivated, just go to the gym. Plus, I was probably hungover most days in college, so that didn't help. But um, you know, I got into like the P90Xs, the insanities, the T25s, and that was all fine. Like I got I got it in good enough shape in college that I could get by. Post-college comes, I get into the corporate world. Um, and now it was a whole different ball game, right? Like I'm at work sitting at a desk eight hours a day, um, trying to still do like a T25 or something, or going to the gym and doing random workouts, you know, orange theories. I eventually joined Peloton um down the road. It was just like a, you know, it felt very, very difficult to manage it. Plus, then at work, I mean, I'm in Wisconsin, so we're having potlucks twice a week. They're bringing buffalo chicken dips, and it's like impossible to, you know, avoid those. Um, and then there was a point where my my grandma passed away when I was like 24, maybe. And that was the first person in my life that I was like even like remotely close to that passed away, that it was a weird kind of like I don't know if you've had this ever in your life from someone close to you that it was a real like, oh, this is actually finite, right? Like it was that first moment I had of we're not gonna live forever, you know, and I could see my parents standing over, um, and I'm like, oh man, they're getting older too, you know. Then I and I the whole like health thing just kind of like really hit me. Um, and I've always had that, you know, that blessing and a curse of I always want to get better, I always want to excel at whatever I do. So like when I get into something, like I am in it, right? I to a level that's probably like okay, maybe calm down, dude, but fitness and health became that thing. And I would say at first more of like the wellness side. So I didn't know what I was doing. I started reading books, going online, listening to podcasts, and I fell into a lot of you know, the bullshit that you would that you can think of in the 2010s, right? Uh the ketos, intermittent fasting, which again, tools that have utility, but in in my head, based on what I was hearing from gurus and everybody online, like that was it. This is how you live to 150 years old, and you know, carbs make you fat. And if you ever eat them, like uh, and the bulletproof, right? I was putting butter in my coffee every morning.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Um, and and I was trying to do everything that I thought was the right things, right? And I was obsessed. I I mean, literally obsessed. Like I I got I got pretty thin and skinny. Like that was the lowest I weighed um since you know before high school. But I but my body like like it was just kind of like I don't know if that skinny fat's even the right word, because it wasn't like it was like this giant belly or anything, but it just never like felt good, right? Um and more so my mental health was terrible from that perspective. Um, you know, I was obsessed with like what is what is causing my gut to feel off, you know, and I would cut out more and more foods, and it's like, oh, it's the gluten, it's this, it's this, oh, it's the seed oils. And I would I got to a place where it was like I would go through a grocery store for two hours, you know, because I had to read every label and check every ingredient and see if I if it was one of those things that somebody online said I can't eat. That I would I remember like literally leaving a grocery store and I had to sit in my car for like five minutes and just decompress because I was so mentally drained from that experience every time. But I would always tell myself, like, I love it. You know, I I love I love making these cauliflower brownies or whatever it was. Um, you know, and and so eventually, eventually I got to a place where I started I started experiencing some hip pain. That was like kind of like the first trigger from doing a crazy amount of Peloton. I did very little like actual strength training at this point. Um, and that kind of introduced me, you know, I felt it for like a year. That introduced me to a place where I had to go to PT and the dude, the PT was awesome. He was like, dude, you just need to get stronger, honestly. He's like, you do a ton of cardio, he's like, there's nothing wrong with that, but like you got to strengthen your hip. And I found Mind Pump at that time. I started you know, cranking out their episodes and read the Resistance Training Revolution by Sal DeStefano. Um, and so like this whole world of strength training kind of opened up to me, and a lot of just like the hey, all these things that you've been hearing, like they might not be that true, you know. Um, and during the same time, you and I have chatted about this before, but I went through a divorce. Um and which is all a blessing now. I mean, I have you know, absolutely love my wife now. We've got an eight-month-old baby at home, like it all ended up in a very good place. But at the time, it was like a very low point of my life, right? Like going through a divorce, my hip like was at a place where I was like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna be able to work out normally again. And I was just sitting at home now, all of a sudden, for the first time, like living alone, right? Like that's I never had that before. I always had a roommate or I lived with a girl or whatever. And so I was like, what do I do? You know, um, and it's funny because in my corporate world, there was there was uh a friend I had, she started a business on Instagram where all she does is basically she does affiliate set like marketing, selling. So she basically was a really good buyer um at a department store that we like we worked in a department store corporate world, and so she's good at building assortments, building product, right? And so she literally just finds deals and like great product that moms would want that she personally would want, and she just puts them up and gives, you know, gives the link and people buy it, and she made a she makes a no she quit her job and she makes an incredible living doing off of that now. Um, and I was like, that's crazy. You can do that on Instagram, you know. So so I was like, all right, I got all this time in the world, like I'm gonna do that. You know, I always wanted, I always wanted to do something in fitness, something about like health and helping people. I always like gravitated towards like a podcast. Like I was like, I don't know what it is, but I want to do something. And so this was it. Like in my head, I was gonna be this this dude who went online and gave you all these fitness products and the codes to the fitness products, and I make money off that, I quit my corporate job, all that. I get maybe 48 hours in, and I think I posted like a protein powder, and then I was like, wait, I don't know anything, I don't know any other products. And I was like, I don't, I don't, this isn't what this isn't my thing. Like, I I actually don't even think people should buy that many fitness products.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

I was gonna say to to be fair, there aren't, especially we're talking supplements, there aren't that many to to really morally advocate for exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Exactly. And so then I was like, I'm like, well, I started this Instagram, so what do I do now? Right. So I was like, I'm just gonna start talking about fitness, you know. And at first it was like very just kind of motivational stuff. I didn't have, I wasn't certified at anything. So after a few weeks, getting some likes, getting some traction, I was like, dude, I feel like you should actually know what you're talking about if you're gonna do this, you know? And so so that's when I decided, like, all right, let's get a certified personal training, nutrition, strength coach, health coach. Like, what are all the things that you truly want to understand, the science, the evidence behind that you want to help people with? And as I was going through that process, that's when I really started realizing like everything you believed before, right? Like seed oils are toxic, or you know, the carbs are gonna kill you, like all these things you thought you were so sure about are kind of bullshit, you know. Um, and I and that made me really and I found this whole circle of like you and and other evidence-based coaches that the like the mass majority of the world does not know exists at all, right? I was like, what what the mainstream is taught about health and fitness is so wrong and backwards that like it became my mission to be like it doesn't need to feel so hard, it doesn't need to feel so complicated. And I also was never a person who was like, I want you to, I work with people who want to get on a bodybuilding stage, right? Uh or power lifters. Like, I want to help people like me that just want to live a fit and healthy life, but not have it drive them crazy, right? Is like is what it comes down to is like being able to build a fit and healthy life that you actually enjoy living. So that was a long story short. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

No, that's a great place for us to start. And I think you do such a good job with your content of telling people what they don't have to worry about so much. And I know it comes from personal experience. As you just shared, you, like many people, were a very well-intentioned, hardworking person when it came to your health and fitness, but you were misled and spun around at times with where your time and effort was best spent. And again, in your content, I always love seeing so much of the here's what you don't have to worry about. And funny enough, it's the things we tend to hear about the most. So, right now, whether it's, I don't know, cortisol, whether it's peptides, you know, whatever the topic of the week is, so much of your content is let me whittle this down for you and basically give you a short list that has been true since the beginning of time in terms of high yield focal points, and it will continue to be the case no matter what you see on social media. So let's talk a bit more about those. So you have clients come to you, they're worried about all these different trends and conflicting information. You pretty much always pull people back to the same short list of high yield focal points. So could you expand a bit on what those are?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah. I I mean to me, it really comes down to a few pieces that if we're talking about like, here's the starting plan, right? And that's the tactical part of this. Here's the physical process goals I want you to start with. And and over time, you know, like I would really try to, all right, each client's different. Let's to, you know, let's really focus on like, and over time, I was like, it really comes back to the same, the same few things over and over and over again. So I would say almost, I mean, 90, 90, 80 to 90% of my clients, their starting goals are let's set, let's establish a step goal, right? Like, let's make sure it doesn't have to be 10,000 steps, but let's at least go out there for an intentional walk on a daily basis, right? So for most clients, like somewhere over 7,500 steps is a pretty solid number that I want to shoot for. Um, but it really also depends on where they are now, right? Um, I mean, if someone is walking 4,000 steps, can we at least get to 6,000, right? Someone's at 7,000, hey, can we challenge you to get to 9,000, right? And and kind of work from there. Um, so that's movement in general, right? Which I think steps is the easiest way to kind of just nudge that, is always a primary starter. Uh a solid progressive overload strength training plan is usually the biggest, like, well, I'd say like one of two of the biggest impact points for most people, because one muscle loss becomes a very real challenge, you know, especially after you turn 30. So for me, working with a lot of women, um, and some men over 40, 40s, 50s, 60s, right? Um, who have been in the boot camps, you know, the spin classes, jazz or size, like all those things, that a big piece of this is let's get some of that muscle back, right? Um, so so establishing that, which also strain training, weightlifting for many people is it's like using dumbbells from YouTube videos, right? Or in a a class that you do, like an orange theory or something. And so establishing like here's a real strength training focus plan that's built for hypertrophy, built for strength building, right? Makes a big difference for them. Um that then on the nutrition side, it's really let's focus on total calories and and get actually good at measuring and tracking your food, right? Um while simplifying that process. Because I think a lot of people stay away from macros and tracking because they're like, I don't want, I don't have the time to track every single piece of food. And so, like, that's we can kind of talk about that later, but um, but then outside of you know, you don't have to track every single macro. Protein and fiber are the two pieces that to me is gonna and I and what I will tell most clients is let's get protein and fiber, let's hit those goals with like 80% whole foods, right? So you want to use a protein powder to get a little bit of that goal? Cool. You want to eat a high, you know, high fiber tortilla for being able to get a little bit of that?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

That's exactly what I was thinking of. I I see somebody's uh fiber total at 85 grams. I'm like, how the fuck did they do that? And I and I look at the log, they just said four mission wraps, and I'm like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, they're they're just like farting and bloated the whole day. Yeah. Yeah, but it's but I'm like, if you can get most of those from Whole Foods, and then you fill in the rest of your calories with whatever you want, you're probably gonna have an overall pretty healthy diet, you know, and you're gonna hit, you're gonna get to the goals you want. So we start there, and then it's like the real coaching, the real conversations starts after that, right? Because then it's the question is why are we having such a hard time hitting those goals? Right. And that's what really matters. And it's not your fault, right? It's not those things, but like I want to establish those things. Let's take out all the other noise and just focus on what really matters.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Let's backtrack just a little bit to the strength training piece, because something you said actually earlier in the episode that I I think I want to pause on is where you shifted from a variety of types of exercise to what you called real or actual strength training. And obviously, I know exactly what you're talking about when you clarify real strength training. I also know that you're not knocking other forms of exercise, but can you elaborate a bit more on what a real strength training workout would look like? So somebody is maybe doing random YouTube videos, they have a pair of five-pound dumbbells at their house and they want to shift to something more effective. What exactly does that look like? What did you change?

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, great question. So, yeah, I I think I want to start by saying I am absolutely not all exercise is great.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Of course, of course, yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

And I am definitely not a I I used to be a person that was like just strength train and walk, don't do any cardio. Cardio's, you know, killing your gains, and that's not true. That you know, cardio is great for your heart health. Um, it's got a time and place. I think it's just what you'll find with a lot of my content. I don't think it's like cardio is bad. I don't think it's that processed foods are killing you and they're toxic. I think it's more so what are we missing out by only doing those things? Right. And so, like with processed foods, if we're eating only processed foods, we're probably missing out on a lot of nutrients, right? And so whole adding more whole foods to me is better than cutting out a bunch of whatever you heard is bad. Same with cardio. Like, if we're only doing cardio, we're probably missing out on a lot of the strength and muscle capacity that you can build from a solid strength training plan. So it's not that cardio is bad, it's the fact that the lack of strength training is is the real problem. And so strength training to me, like to make it as simple as possible is your actual like what drives building strength and building muscle is getting enough effective hard sets and reps throughout the week. And what that means is if you're doing a let's say a dumbbell row, right? That we are getting relatively close to failure at the end of each set. So like if you do 10 reps and you feel like you could do 10 more, that's probably not something that's going to contribute to a lot of strength and muscle building. If you do 10 reps and you're like, I can maybe do like, you know, three, four more good reps at most, cool. Now can we do that again? Right. And if you really are doing that, if you're really going heavy, you're gonna probably need to rest a couple minutes in between that set, right? Which is a fundamental piece that really hard to locate that in like a entertainment training class, right? Where you are the whole goal is like, let's do as much as we can in as little time as possible. Um, and it's it's much more cardio focused. So, like a to me, a strength training plan is you've got your set movements, right? On a they're set up for each workout, and we are tracking our reps, we are tracking our weight, and we are trying to make every set feel challenging, difficult. And then we are trying to progress from there. Like that is the that's the big piece too, right? That we're not doing random workouts and changing the movements every single time. We're coming back the next week, we're coming back the next week. Usually for most clients, I run about a six-week cycle. Um, that over those six weeks, you might not increase every single movement every single week, but over time, we are increasing the amount of reps, the amount of weight we're using, and we're keeping the movement challenging. There's a million other things to consider when it comes to you know programming sign, all those things, and that's why you hire a coach to do that for you. Um, but to me, like if you just stick to those principles, you hit each muscle group a couple of times a week, you keep each set relatively feeling challenging and hard, and you challenge yourself to increase the reps and the weight most weeks, you're probably gonna build muscle and you're probably gonna build strength.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, those are those are great tips. I like that a lot. And I think one of the tricky parts about group X and just faster paced, uh paced circuit style training in general, is that it's really tough to gauge proximity to failure when the reps get very high and when the rest periods are so short that maybe like you're more out of breath than say your muscles are fatigued. So if I just have you uh actually, let's say the dumbbell row example, if you're doing a heavy Set of eight. Maybe that's the target on paper is we're going to do two sets per side of eight reps. It's a lot easier to kind of say, all right, if I absolutely had to, could I do two more? I'm not sure. Okay, maybe that's a good spot, two reps away from failure. Whereas if it's, I don't know, four sets of 15 as part of a circuit with a bunch of other exercises, the difference between 12, 13, maybe 16, 17 reps, it all kind of gets generally hard at a certain point, but you might have five or six reps away. You might be five or six reps away from failure. And I think it gets a lot more difficult to gauge. So if you bring the reps down and take enough rest where you're not so gassed between sets, it's easier to have a close pulse on this and then get far more out of your strength work.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, yeah. And I think I should say too, because I think of people who are just starting out with strength training that maybe have never done that, right? Have never really felt like what true failure even feels like, it can be a little intimidating, right? It's like, am I gonna hurt myself and trying to do it right? And so I think what's important to note too is strength, what's cool about strength training is that it's so unbelievably forgiving for newbies. Like the term newbie games is a very real phenomenon that you could do everything wrong the first three to six months, and you'll probably still build muscle, you know. So that whole idea of getting close to failure, the more new you are to strength training, or even if you're just, you know, you've stepped away for a quite a bit of time, the further away you can be from failure and still see progress. And then as we go further and further down the road, the closer and closer you have to get to failure to squeeze out those, you know, those additional 1%, 2% gain. So, you know, with with clients who are just starting out, like if it's a 45-year-old mom who's like, I I have I only have 10-pound dumbbells or 15-pound dumbbells, it's like, okay, that's fine. Like, let's just get good at the movements first, right? Like, let's learn how to do the movements. Um, and then really it's all about the intention, right? I'm trying to make these sets challenging. I'm trying to progress my reps and weight. And over time, you'll get closer to closer to understanding that sweet spot of like, this is challenging. I'm also not gonna die tomorrow by touching myself. Um, and even like, you know, if there's movements like you you see so much online too, you don't have to do barbell squats, right? Like you don't have to do heavy deadlifts. There's so many you can you can use machines, you can use pulleys. I actually love machines for new for people who are new to strength training because it's so much easier to feel what failure feels like, right? Without feeling in danger. Um, and so I I think there's so many ways, like to me, it's how do we how do we eliminate as much barrier and friction from entering the strength training world? Because once you're in and you start feeling, wow, I feel stronger. I see a little bit of definition, like it it becomes almost intoxicating for many people.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

So true. I was just talking to a friend last night who she's always been active, lifelong dancer, theater performer, who's always done a lot on stage physically, but has never done kind of more formal strength training. And uh, so again, she just joined a gym and she told me, like, I have not been enjoying it at all. But what I told her was this is the hardest it'll ever feel. This is the most awkward it'll ever feel. It's only gonna get better, or at least more tolerable from here as you accumulate more skill and as you start to see a payoff for your efforts. I think a lot of people dabble in it enough to experience the sucky parts, but don't have enough structure or consistency to start to see that ROI that keeps you motivated to keep going. So this friend is only one or two weeks into her gym's training journey. I'm like, all right, so here's what to expect. And again, think about it almost like dance. I don't know about you, I'm not a great dancer. So if I went into her studio tomorrow, I'm probably not gonna enjoy it very much because I lacked the skill of dancing. Whereas I don't doubt if I stuck with it for weeks and then months and years and I got more proficient, that becomes a more enjoyable experience. So I'm glad you mentioned the skill acquisition component as well. Because I think a lot of people might think of that for other physical endeavors, basically any sport. But strength training to a lot of people, it's just exercise. You just go in and move and break a sweat. But if you get better at, say, dumbbell row when you feel it more in your lat instead of your shoulder, it's like, oh, okay, this is clicking a little bit. Now that it feels smoother, let me see if I can beat last week's performance. Oh shit, I never thought I'd be able to lift that much weight before. Like you said, it's contagious, it's it's addicting. Can I can I now beat that? And then I can spiral in a really good way.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yes. I I love that you said that. And it's it's so important with strength training, but really all a fitness. I tell every client when they first start, because it's like you get on the you get an onboarding call, they're super giddy, they're excited, it's like they're a little bit nervous. Like there's so much, there's they see the vision, but they're still a little bit like, is this really gonna work? Right? Because they've likely been burned by many programs in the past. They've tried multiple times, and like maybe they saw some progress and end up back in a place where like it, you know, so like there's always a little bit of trepidation and hesitation, and it would be weird if there wasn't, right? Um, and so I tell them all at the end of our call. I just I want to be super honest, I want to be super clear. This is the most excited you will feel for a little bit of time after this, because this is awesome. You have so much ahead of you, you're like all the endless possibilities, and then the work's gonna start, right? And now it's like, I gotta go find time for the gym. I gotta make sure I'm tracking my lunch. I got, you know, all these things. And there's a gap, there's the valley before you see the progress actually pay off the res before the results actually come, right? And that is the hardest time because you have to rely on faith and trust in the process, right? That, all right, they said this is what I do. I'm I paid for this program. There's a reason why I paid for it, right? Like I gotta just, I gotta see it out, I gotta keep going. And it's really, really hard when you are doing something, like anyone can relate to that, right? With a new job, with parenting, with any kind of skill that you're you're doing that you're not good at, right? That in the beginning you're like, I don't know. I I'm doing it, but like, I don't know if I can do this, right? I don't I don't know if it's gonna actually work. And if you can if you can last probably like three, four weeks, right, of doing that, the first time you see my pants feel a little bit better, right? Like, oh, I can actually exceed like a little bit of my tricep, you know, or the scale moved a little bit, right? Or I I have so much more energy. Like, just you need something, right? And as soon as you get that, everything becomes easier, right? That motivation becomes self, and it's like it's not to say that there's never gonna be hard days again, but I I always tell them, like, just stay close to me, be vocal, let me know when you're feeling like you're getting close to the ledge, right? In the first three, four weeks, because I promise you, if we can get to the end of that, the the moment you start seeing some rewards for all the effort you're putting in, it's all gonna become worth it.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Of course. One of one of the things that I love about how you coach is how you factor in that initial wave of motivation factor that you just mentioned, where when people hire you, they hire any coach, they're at their most motivated. They are ready to eat 800 calories per day of chicken breast and do nine hours of cardio. And we know this is gonna fizzle out pretty quickly. So I know that you factor that in and you proactively create their plans for the version of them that is in that lull that is not gonna go to the gym five or six days per week or eat 800 calories of chicken and sadness. So you go, okay. I know you're all gung-ho now. Three or four weeks from now, where are you gonna be at? Let's design the plan for that person. So when you do have that inevitable dip, which again, life happens, it's gonna come. You can hold the line, you can stay consistent long enough to get that payoff that you mentioned. That's it, man. That's exactly it. Okay, let's let's pivot a bit to the nutrition side of things. We talked about the strength training journey, kind of where you started, how that evolved over time, and you know, what you settled on at this point. But nutritionally, you made um a really great analogy or kind of a breakdown of the evolution of good nutrition of a healthy diet, where you said there are four levels. Do you already remember what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Okay. So I uh so for anybody who's never seen this post, level one, and I'll I'll let you explain these in a moment, of course. Level one is the fad dieter, level two is the learner, level three is the macro master, and level four is the truly free one, aka the fitness jedi. And you've indirectly touched upon all these with your own personal journey with the nutritional side of things, but I would love to kind of take these one by one, starting with level one, the fad dieter. So could you explain that first spot that most people find themselves in?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah. That to give some context behind this whole thing, too. It's funny because I've always like thought about how do I explain this journey that most people go through in a very simple and easy way that like even who's someone who's not, we can, as we go through levels who's at level four, can understand where we're going, right? Because what's crazy is like after you've worked with enough people, everyone is different, everyone has their own individual journey, but you see these similarities across their journey, right? And so this is where the idea of these levels comes from. Because I and which we can kind of talk about as we get to the end of it, but um where where I see like it's funny because this whole idea of the four levels, I literally, which I mentioned I I work with Brooks Coleman. Um I texted him. I was literally eating lunch, and the four levels just like it just was spewing out of my head. It was just like it was so simple, it was so clear. And like, of course, it took years of coaching and working with people for it that to even happen. But I was like, I can't believe I just created this whole framework in like 25 seconds because it was just like I finally something I listened to something and it finally hit me, right? Um, but level one is the level, the fad dieter is the place where I kind of described that I lived in for a very long time, right? I was looking at different gurus and influencers and trying different diets that had brand names, right? Uh keto and paleo and um bulletproof, whatever. And it's the place that I would say the vast majority of people who are into, because there, there's a whole, there's like a level zero, right? There's people who just do not care about fitness or health or nutrition in any way, right? So this is this is more for the person who's like, they really are trying, they're putting in the effort. They're just stuck in this like mainstream fitness diet world, right? Um, and unfortunately, to me, I think the vast majority of people live here most of their lives. Um, and for some people, they never get to level two, right? Like they're just stuck in this cycle of hopping from fad diet to fad diet, trying different workouts, different workout classes, and maybe seeing some temporary results, but inevitably always getting back to a place where they kind of fizzle out, burn out, it's not sustainable. And unfortunately, they often blame themselves for not being able to stick with it because they're not disciplined enough and don't have enough willpower. And what they don't see is that it's just a bad system, right? Like they, they're they're trying to follow a inherently unsustainable plan that doesn't even lead to the results that they actually want.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

So, how do we move somebody along to level two, the learner? And like you just said, I think a lot of people come to us with a very long coming off of a very long stint of level one and not for a lack of intention and effort. It's just misguided in a way. So, okay, somebody is open to doing things in a different way. They realize that basically any diet with a name is bullshit. I can think of very few exceptions. All right, I'm ready to do things differently. I want to learn about what the quote unquote right way looks like. How do you move them along to level two, the learner?

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yeah. So so level two, this is to me, level from going from level one to level two is the biggest jump anybody makes because you are inherently taking a leap of faith that everything I thought about fitness and nutrition, all that before, like this whole lifelong dieter identity is gone. I have to I like it might not go away overnight, but I'm done with it. Right. And so what's super like un difficult is I I honestly believe that for most people, the way that they move on from level one is because they're just sick of the pain of living in level one. Like they've tried so many of these things that they're tired of doing the same old bullshit, you know? Like, and so they inevitably find somebody like you, right? Um, they find my content, they find other evidence-based coaches that starts kind of poking and and showing cracks in the armor of some of these beliefs that they had, right? Like maybe it starts with like, hey, carbs aren't actually bad for you. And they're like, What? What do you mean? Right. And and they start seeing some of this content, and they they start engaging in more of those people, you start engaging less in like the people who are standing in grocery stores and screaming about certain foods, right? Um, and they start seeing this, like that was what happened for me with with Mind Pump. And like I just started they they made it so simple and easy to understand that, like, hey, all of these diets work because they put you in a calorie deficit. Like they they just they're just different ways of making you eat less food and less calories, and then they would have like Lane Norton on, and Lane Norton would go to the ultimate extreme of like calories is literally all that matters, you know, and and hearing a lot of that was like, huh. Right. And so you start going more into more into that world. And so to me, it's like you have to commit to all right, what is what actually matters, and how do I start treating those things as skills now, right? And that to me is like strength training and then really like learning the macro tracking world. Um because those two things are steep learning curves, right? There's there's a a lot to learn quickly, but they are things that will change how you look at fitness the rest of your life and how you look at nutrition the rest of your life, right? So that's why it's the learners because you are in this place where you are done with level one, you can't go back, right? Because you're you already know that's all bullshit, but now you're seeing all these things that you that do work, and now you got to learn those things, which also is intimidating. So it's kind of this weird middle spot where it's like there's a lot of excitement, like I'm moving away from that life. I I this is the way to be, but I'm also not really good at this, you know. Um, and so there's a lot of figuring out the like what I tell clients who are kind of in this stage as they are starting, it's not about being perfect with macros. It's not about hitting all of your workouts and crushing it and all these things. It's about building your system, it's about building your infrastructure. That is the most important piece here, right? Is understanding, okay, life is gonna happen, right? Like I'm gonna have a late meeting at work, I'm gonna have a funeral out of town this weekend, like I'm gonna have like things just come up, right? And so, what is my system to make sure that I still relatively hit my goals most of the time? It doesn't have to be 100% perfect. So, like it's literally things like I always tell them, what are your oh shit meals that you have in the freezer, right? Like what's what's your protein options, whether it's like frozen salmon burgers, turkey, meatballs, whatever, that in a pinch, you know exactly what you're gonna make, right? What's your oh shit DoorDash order? Right? Um, how do you how do you understand what works best for you in terms of making your workouts most realistic? Do you keep coming home and saying, I'm gonna do my workout after work, after dinner, and then you're like, I'm exhausted, I I don't want to do this today, but you keep trying that same strategy versus saying, you know what, maybe it's gonna suck for a few days, but if I don't do it in the morning, it's not gonna happen. Right. So, like those types of things is in the beginning, like those are the conversations I love having with clients because if we can figure out your infrastructure, like right, your system to set up, we we eventually get to a place and we'll that we'll talk about like they move to level three, is when I start hearing clients being like, all right, we got back from you know our Montana trip Sunday night. It was super late. I don't have groceries for Monday, but I'm gonna go to this, you know, this salad place that's down the street from work, and I'll pick a good enough option that's gonna have protein and some veggies. I'm gonna grab groceries or I'm gonna instacart them, you know, for after work so that I have them ready for the rest of the week. Um, I do have some stuff that's frozen in the freezer that it'll be fine, it'll be good enough for dinner, you know, and I'm gonna miss my workout on Monday, but I'll just move that to Tuesday, and then I think I can get the rest of them in the rest of the week. Like they're talking like that, right? Versus in the beginning, it's very much, oh, I missed my workout and I I didn't get groceries on Monday, so now I gotta wait till next Monday, you know, and uh right. And you're kind of like, oh, I just I messed up again, I messed up again. And it's like that doesn't happen anymore. They're they are even if they they understand even when something goes wrong or unplanned, that's that's just how life goes now, right? So they're they're become very resilient and masters at the process.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

So I think similar to the motivation piece we talked about, where it's so important to have the expectation that your motivation is gonna nosedive at least periodically, and that allows you to better prepare. I think the same for excuse me, the same thing for the second step that you mentioned, where you're setting the expectation. Hey, just so you're aware, you're gonna have to do some experimenting, some tinkering, some learning. This is this is really, yeah, just like an experimentation phase. You don't get to jump to step three, step four, beyond. Right now is where we do figure things out. So it's gonna be a little clunky at times, it's gonna be a little bit imperfect, but that's okay, because at no point will it ever need to be perfect. So I like how you also set that expectation similar to how you make people aware how their motivation is gonna ebb and flow, that hey, this second step here, again, it's uh you're experimenting, you're tinkering, you're making adjustments to build the frameworks that will allow you to move on to step three.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yeah, because to me, like tracking the real benefit of macros is not the fact that, like, yes, there's the element of if you precisely weigh and measure all of your food, you're gonna predictably lose weight. Like that's that's the reality, right? But to me, the real benefit is oh, now I know that food is high protein. That food is not, right? Like, I I I always thought like sausage was high protein, right? Or like this deli meat that I'm always getting. And oh, these are the foods that have fiber in it. Like everyone always talks about fiber, but I have no idea what that even means, or like we know how to get it. So, like tracking gives you that knowledge, right? And once you start having that knowledge, now it's like you go out to eat, you go on vacation, and I like that's like I never tell my clients, like, you need to track every single bite of food, or otherwise this isn't gonna work. It's like, how do we just make how do we make vacation better than last week? Right. And so, like part of that's like I just become a protein and fiber hunter, right? Like, I on every menu, I'm just gonna seek out like, and they learn those things. They learn and understand, okay, well, I can just get a turkey burger, right? That's gonna be close enough. I'll get a broccoli as a side, and like, yeah, it's not perfect, but it's also enjoyable, right? Which is an important thing. So that to me is like that's the real benefit of this stage is you start learning these things that allow you to be consistent with nutrition without having to track all of your food throughout life.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Sure. So you starting to explain step number three made me think of a client that I'm currently working with who a couple weeks ago was feeling a bit burnt with her dieting phase. She's very experienced, like very high level of knowledge and skill with this stuff. She's starting to feel a little bit burnt. And it was right before she was going on a trip anyway. So we talked about just taking the entire week off from any sort of data collection, not stepping on a scale, not tracking anything, just nothing. And understandably, as somebody who is so used to tracking a bunch of stuff, she was a little intimidated, a little bit anxious. But I reminded her of what you said, which is the thing that you're getting from tracking primarily is knowledge that allows you to make better decisions. Just because we don't have the numerical confirmation of those decisions doesn't Doesn't mean all of a sudden you don't have the knowledge that allowed you to do those. So, like, okay, yeah, we're gonna be a bit less precise this week, but you still know what uh say eating frequency manages your hunger well. You know how you typically structure a plate, you know what your portions typically look like and what nutrients you're getting from each of those foods and portions. None of that changes. Yes, a bit less precise, but all that knowledge you've acquired, say in this client's case during the level two phase, now during level three, we can be a bit more flexible because you can lean on those systems that you developed in the stage prior.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

And this, what you just brought up, is so important because this is what's going to bridge the need for level four, right? Okay. Level three to level four. Because so level three is the master, right? It's it is you got good at all the stuff we just talked about in level two. You are great at tracking macros. You're great at understanding how to hit your protein, you're great at getting fiber and veggies. You're flex, you know, you you don't panic when you don't get groceries. Like you figure it out. Same and same with your strength workouts. Like you're consistently hitting your most workouts, maybe not every single one. You're consistently getting stronger and you're you're you know, you're learning the movements, um, you're you're getting your steps in, like you're just you're doing the thing, right? And you're getting results. You're getting great results. You're seeing the scale move, you're seeing body recomposition, you're getting stronger, you feel great. And then what you start noticing is exactly what you just described. It's there's a parallel because in level one, you are trapped by this diet lifestyle, this diet mindset, right? Like you feel like you're on this hamster wheel and you can't get off of it. Otherwise, you're gonna gain all this fat and everything's gonna fall apart. And so, like, you literally don't feel free, right? You feel trapped by this whole system. If I miss a workout, it's all my scale's going to two pounds. If I eat, you know, if I touch those carbs, I gain five pounds overnight, right? Like and then level three, you've got the system, you've got the process, you're getting the results. And yet, eerily enough, you still kind of feel trapped, right? Because you got to check the boxes now. You gotta get you gotta hit your protein goal, you gotta hit your step goal, you gotta hit your workouts, right? And you don't want those results that you got to go away, right? You don't want to lose all your progress, but I won't lose my progress. My coach says I won't, but I haven't really seen that. Like, what if I do, right? But what if I screw it all up? What if I go back to what I was before, right? In my old lifestyle. Like that's not logical, but what if it happens? And so it's a really interesting thing because on both of those versions, you're still trapped, right? And level four is when you start noticing those things of like, like you know, right? You know your clients, like the one you just described that you're like, dude, if you don't track for a week, you're gonna be fine. Like you, you are so consistent, you hit your protein, you know what protein is, you right? Like, even if I said don't track your macros for a week, you're still probably gonna eat relatively close to your goals, right? But they that scares them more than not doing those things. And to me, that's when that's when you know you're probably starting to near the need to go to level four, because in the beginning, like when you're in level zero going to level one, if the thought of going to the gym makes you uncomfortable, you should probably go to the gym, right? Like that, like that's that's the truth. Now, in this one, when you're level three, if the thought of not tracking your food, if the thought of not going to the gym because it's your nephew's birthday party on Saturday morning freaks you out, you should probably not go to the gym. You should probably not track your food on vacation, right? It becomes an inverse. And so level four is finally finding a place where you realize this thing could be way more flexible than you think, right? Because it took a lot of work to get here. But the reality is, like, if you go out and you know, you get you're on you're in Buenos Aires, you got some great um empanadas, is that the thing, right? Or what do they actually do? Yeah, good memory.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Yeah, great. And when you're like, oh man, I probably definitely ate way too many calories last night. It's like, but I but I also know the scale's gonna be up in the morning because it's just higher sodium, it's higher carbs and the it's just water weight. I know it's average calories over time, it's not a huge deal. I'm just gonna move on to the next meal, right? If I miss a workout, I also know like it honestly takes one workout a week to actually maintain my muscle, and and two workouts a week is enough to still build a little bit more. And I've been training consistently for a long time, right? You start like really getting good at this idea of if I'm 80% good enough most of the time, I'm good, right? Like, because I'm doing this for the next 30 years, not for the next 30 days. And so level four is the second hardest jump of going from level one to level two, I think is the hardest. I think this is the second hardest. But the coolest thing about this one is like you start getting to a place where it's like, maybe I'm gonna track less often, right? Like maybe I am gonna like lean on intuitive eating or whatever you want to call it, right? Mindful eating a little bit more. And you start doing those things a little bit more, and you're like, I didn't lose my progress. I'm still, I'm still kind of maintaining, and I actually I love going to the gym, right? I love my strength workout. So, like, yeah, I don't get all of them in, but I I get at least like two or three a week, right? I'm still moving forward. It just feels lighter, more free. Like the way I kind of like think about it, because once you're there, you almost have less, it's not taking up so much real estate in your head that you've got more time for other things. You know, like go start, you you like knitting, right? Isn't that something you always talked about, right? Or uh, you know, you talk about that house project, and it's cool because you don't have to think so much about tracking your food, you know, to think so much about you know squeezing your workout in. It's just almost like on autopilot for you. And that's a really cool place to be because the when you're in level one, food and workouts controls your life, right? When you're in level three, you control workouts and food. And when you're in level four, food and fitness is just one piece of your awesome life.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Dude, I love those levels, and I could not agree more that the jump from level three to level four can, ironically enough, despite all of the skill and knowledge that you've acquired, can be the most difficult alongside that first jump from level one to level two. So, what I'll often have my clients do is kind of pick their spots with just loosening the reins on maybe one or two things at a time, because it can be very stressful and anxiety inducing to feel like, well, the progress that I've made thus far is because of my extremely high level of precision and consistency. So it'd be normal to think that, well, if I'm not as precise and consistent, I'm gonna lose all of my success when that's not the case. But to almost prove that to them in a more digestible way, it could be as simple as uh, you know, this Sunday, if you're feeling lazy and you fall into your step total, fine. I want you to give yourself the green light to do that and see that nothing bad happens the next day. Or, you know, this week I want you to leave your food scale in the in the cabinet. I don't even want you to weigh your food this week. You have more than enough experience to eyeball enough for your maintenance goals at this point. So almost like picking one to two things at a time, see that the world doesn't end, they maintain really well, they're still in a good spot, and then you can gradually wean off of more and more things and find your longer-term strategy, which, as we're both saying, funny enough, tends to be a bit more flexible than the approach that got you the success in the first place. So it's almost we're turning up the dial from maybe the one or two early on. Temporarily you're up to a nine or ten, and then we settle things back down to a seven or eight most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Yeah, which, and that's why I loved when I started speaking to clients about this because when you're in level one, you're heading to level two, it's daunting to be like, I have to track all my food the rest of my life. I had to hit all these, I have to get all these workouts in. And it's like, how do I get them to understand though that no, you don't, right? Like maybe for a little bit, we got to get more dialed in and more focused because you're learning, you're mastering this process, but at but the outcome, the reward of mastering the process is that you actually get to care less about the process, right? Like that's the beauty of it, is that once you like, and I and I got it because my best clients I've worked with for one, two years, right? They're like, hey man, I I appreciate our time so together, and it's it's cool the body changes I've made, right? Like I like what I see in the mirror, but honestly, like the biggest transformation is I just feel free. Like I feel I finally feel freedom, and it's like, man, like that, that was where the whole thing came from. Because I was like, how do you explain that to somebody who's just getting started?

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Yeah, I think that's a uh again, I love the analogy itself, and I like how you came up with it in 25 seconds while sitting at the uh the kitchen table. It's like uh uh an artist coming up with a hit song on the spot and quickly writing it down on a napkin that's you with these four levels.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Yeah, which again, that that that that happens because that person played guitar for three decades, right? And then it was able, this is the same thing. It was like this was a lot of swirling thoughts that have been going through my head for years that I was like, oh, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Yes, yes, of course. Uh before we wrap up today, I did want to hit you with one more nutrition question that somebody submitted beforehand, which was do you do you have any general advice or strategies for somebody who struggles with mindless eating, just kind of grazing on stuff without really thinking about it? What advice would you have there?

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Great question. Um, an incredibly one, whoever that was, thank you so much for submitting that question. I I appreciate it a lot. Um this is unbelievably common. That like I think that's the most important things. I think people feel like when they are mindless eating, it's like, oh, why am I doing this again? Like I'm such a and I think it's let's establish the fact that a lot of these like snacky foods, Oreos, Doritos, things like that, like they are literally designed for you to mindlessly eat them, right? Like there, there's actual food engineers that go in something called the bliss point, where they're creating the perfectly curated combination of fat, salt, and sugar that makes you eat it, not get full, and want more of it, right? So, like I think part of it is understand it's not like you're not just a failure who like can't control it. You're fighting against kind of a a system that's designed to do that, right? And so there's a few pieces of this. I think number like there's like a tactical side, and then there's more of the mental side. I think both are important to address. So, like from a tactical perspective, number one, are you actually hungry? Right? Like, are you number one, are you eating, are you barely eating calories throughout the day because you're like, oh, I'm trying to be on a diet, you know, you got you're living in a diet mindset, whatever. And then you get to the end of the day, and like you really are under your calorie goal, right? And and so like you're just filling that the rest of it with like chips and and candy or whatever because you're genuinely hungry. Couple that with are you getting enough protein, enough fiber, enough veggies? Because those things are tremendous at helping you stay full, right? So, like I always start there of like, let's look at the low-hanging fruit. Are you under-eating throughout the day? And are you undereating those specifically? The veggies, the fiber, the protein. Because if you are like the amount of times that someone comes in, they're like, I have a sweet tooth, or I mindlessly eat, whatever, and we just add more protein, we just add more fiber, and they're like, Wow, yeah, like I still kind of want sweets, but it's the the noise is down so much, right? Like, that's step one. Now, that being said, I think we also need to address why do people mindlessly eat? Right. And so the hunger could be a real thing, but the other question is like, well, what if I'm not hungry? Right? Like, what if I'm full after dinner and for some reason I'm still gravitating towards the chips at the same time? I'm still, you know, diving into the candy bag. And so we're that's the place where we need to really address what we are using food for, right? How do we create a little bit of separation? Because a lot of the times it is because we hate the feeling of discomfort from whatever negative emotion we're trying to avoid, right? Whether that is boredom, whether that's stress, depression, right? Like fear, anxiety, we don't we we've been trained as a society that happiness is the only acceptable emotion, right? And so when we feel anything else, it's not comfortable. And so all of us to some degree develop coping mechanisms to distract ourselves from feeling those emotions. For some people, it's food, for some people it's alcohol, for some people it's drugs, for some people, it's work, right? For some people, it's workouts, right? Like we all find ways to to try to drown out that noise of why are you feeling, why are you feeling anxious? Why are you feeling bored right now? Like, why are you your life is good? Why are you feeling like this, right? Um and food just happens to be the one that unfortunately, if it can, if that habit continues for a very long time, you can physically see it. Right. And so we feel we feel incredible shame over it. We don't see the person who's struggling with alcohol behind the scenes, right? Or the guy who's got a cocaine addiction, that you know, like we don't see a lot of that stuff. And so, so I think like normalizing the idea that we all feel negative emotions, we all probably to some degree try to avoid them, right? So let's address that real human instinct of creating some separation and cre and and creating some awareness around what is actually going on when I'm reaching for the food, right? So I like to have some kind of practice where if you're reaching into the pantry every night, put a sticky note on there, right? That just that just draws awareness to say something like number one, what am I doing? Right? Like the simplest question, what am I doing right now? Oh, I'm reaching for food, I'm reaching for the pantry. Number two, what am I feeling? Right? Like what emotions, what thoughts are coming up in my head? And like really spend a couple minutes there. What's this this one that piece I learned from uh listening to Jared Hamilton, who's like an incredible from you know, dieting inside out, I think is his his whole thing, but like that idea of like really like what thoughts, what emotions are coming up, because that will tell you so much of what am I trying to block out right now, right? And then lastly, what else could I be doing? Right? Like maybe I should go for a walk instead, right? Maybe I should go fold that laundry that I've been avoiding for the last three hours, right? Maybe I actually want a cookie and that's okay, right? But like just stopping and asking the question is super, super important to break that just autopilot habit that that just constantly keeps happening every night, right? Um because especially to the last piece is maybe it's just a habit that you've built over time, right? Every night after dinner, around 7:30, I make a cup of tea and I have two graham crackers. I put a little bit of just a little smear of peanut butter, a little smear of jelly, and a little piece of dark chocolate on them, and I have it every night. It fits into my goals, it fits into my calories. It's not something that I'm like, uh I why am I doing that? But I can tell you that at 7:30 every night, what goes into my head, right? Oh, it's graham cracker time, right? Because it's a habit, it's something that I've established that I do. Our brain gets used to doing the same things over and over. And so part of it is like, all right, it's not hunger. I definitely know that. I don't think it's really even emotionally driven, right? Maybe it's just something I'm just used to doing every single night. And so that's the last piece is like, how do I take a break from this to try to let my brain kind of reset and re-establish? And maybe that means I'm not gonna have those foods in my house for a couple weeks, right? Because and it's definitely means I'm not gonna have them on my kitchen counter, right? Because we number one, we eat whatever we see. So when you have it, the closer it is in proximity, the more likely you are to eat it. So whether if it's next to you on the kitchen, if it's next to you on the nightstand, you're very likely to eat it. If it's on the kitchen counter, you're still pretty likely to eat it. If it's in a pantry, you're less likely, but you know where it is, right? If it's not, if it's at the grocery store, you're probably not gonna go get it. You know, so can you give yourself just like a two-week kind of reset break to even understand if you even like whatever it was that you were eating that much, right? Um, and can you replace that habit with something else? You know, something else that maybe is more fulfilling, more um more beneficial for your goal specifically. So it's a long-winded answer because I don't think it's it's a simple one for many people, but usually within one of those three buckets, right? Number one, is it actually a lack of nutrient-dense foods? So you truly are feeling hungry. Number two, are you trying to avoid some kind of discomfort, negative emotion that you need to address? And number three, is it just a habit and we need to find a different one to replace it?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

I think that's a perfect recap and a nice mic drop moment for you before I take you to the last part of today's episode, which is the fast four. So, four things that have nothing to do with health and fitness, just whatever the first thing to come to mind is. And I recently changed, you're gonna get uh two new questions. I've switched these up over the uh over the years. So we get two new ones today. First question for you what would you be doing if you were not a fitness and nutrition coach and you were not working your current corporate job? You had to do something totally different.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

Oh man. Um I mean, dude, honestly, I I love talking on podcasts. Um, I I love like that's the piece. Instagram's kind of one of those like necessary evils, in my opinion, that I'm like, yeah, I'll make content there. But like I love doing this with, you know, just talking with you and just shooting the breeze. And most of it's fitness related, but like I think if I had my own, like, hey, money doesn't matter, I'd probably be like a like a Chris Williamson modern wisdom type of dude that's like I'm just bringing people on and just talking about what I think is interesting and just you know, shooting the breeze and meeting really cool people. Um, and and honestly, like I'd just be spending more time hanging out with my family and being a dad because that that that beats the whole fitness thing nine nine out of ten times.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Sure. The uh conversation and connection piece resonates with me a lot. And actually, during season one of this show, I brought on my Portuguese tutor at the time. I talked to my main tattoo artist, just other people in different areas that I'm interested in. Because like you, I just really enjoy the connection piece over yes, fitness stuff at times, but a variety of subjects. Second question for you if you could teleport anywhere in the world right now, where would you go?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Wow. Um, Argentina, man. I'd come see you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

That would great answer. I tell you what, I don't think anybody, it's been 70-something episodes. Nobody's ever said they'd come see me. So I appreciate that. That means a lot. Yeah, hell yeah. And I've been at, I think I've been in some cool places. It's not like I live in the middle of nowhere, you know, depending on what I'm saying. I would love to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

I would love to grab some, grab some arepas. Have you shown me around town? That'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Yes, no, dude, it would be super fun. Although I will tell you, Arepas Venezuelan, but damn it, you will, but but there's a huge Venezuelan population here. So you have Argentinian food, is of course the main food. Italian is super popular just because everybody here, or seemingly everybody, has Italian ancestry. But because of the enormous Venezuelan population here, you also have Venezuelan foods and heavy rotation as well. So we could do a banana's, we could do a rapas, we could do a lot. Of fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Some Argentinian carne asado with some chimicherry sauce.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

That would be incredible. That would be incredible. Number three, what is your biggest pet peeve?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

I think I I think it's just people who really lack empathy and social awareness to a degree where it's like I guess it's kind of like almost twofold. It's like one, like people who just they cannot read the room, and it's just like it's all about them clearly, and no matter what the other person says, the conversation always somehow comes comes back to them, you know. Um that's one, but then like with online, the amount of like social justice showmanship, just people who are like there's so much content I see out there that I'm like, how does this help anybody? Like you're just you're just trying to show off like whatever you think is morally superior about yourself, um, because you're not delivering anything that's like meaningful, you're just doing this for viral I can't say that vir virality. Virality, right? Um it's like, do you even like like I see a lot of content like coaches just talking to other coaches essentially, which is why like I love seeing your content because you're like you're literally you're not trying to do anything for just engagement, like you're literally just delivering a conversation that you probably would have with a client, right? Um, and I appreciate that very much versus a lot of other things. It's like it's clearly a lot of people who like their validation comes from comments and likes, and people who come on and they're like, Yeah, you're so right about that, you know. So, like that kind of stuff just it pisses me off in a way because like recently we have so much out there around politics, immigration, like so many people have become experts in those fields, and it's kind of like you know what? Like, honestly, if you're passionate about it, you're researching a lot about it, cool. Go and talk about it, but like don't go on there and like shame other people for not talking about it, you know, because as nutrition and fitness coaches, we we talk all the time about how people who have don't know anything about it are saying all this nonsense online, yet we're okay with going and believing that we're like foreign policy experts, right? And it's like obviously there's so much nuance and all that stuff, there's so much propaganda on whatever. This isn't even like a political side, you know. But like to me, when I see a lot of that stuff, I'm like, I don't know how true this is because like I know how much nonsense there is with nutrition, right? So like I'm not gonna go out there and like puff my chest out and say this or that because I don't I genuinely don't know. I don't like I haven't researched it enough. And so like in a in like I don't want to be like that old guy that's like stay in your lane, you know, but it does, it does kind of like it, it just kind of rubs me the wrong way when I see people being so sure about a specific issue or topic that they're like completely dismissing that maybe there's something to learn from someone else's perspective.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Sure. What is uh I might get the name at least slightly wrong, the Dunning Kruger effect, where the less somebody knows about something, the more likely they are to offer an opinion. And I think as fitness professionals, that resonates for us earlier in our career. A 17-year-old trainer Sam would have told you that carbs are bad. And and I would have said it with my goddamn chest too. I would have been like, you need to not have carbs, and then you learn a little bit, and you're like, oh shit, okay, maybe, maybe I have some things to learn. Maybe I'm not quite there, and then things eventually level out a bit. And yeah, I do think we see that all over the place on social media. So um, so yeah, it's a good answer, man. Um, last question for you today. What's one thing you're excited about right now? What are you looking forward to?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

Ooh, um, I'm excited for the snow to melt on the ground because I want to go outside and actually not feel cold. Um, but I I mean, dude, like I said, our daughter's she's turning nine months um in a couple weeks, and it's just been it's been crazy watching that, you know, like just first-time parent, um, going from not like it's like like we entered stage two of like trying to figure all this out, right? Um and seeing her now get to a place where like she's sleeping in a different room, she's sleeping well, um, she's crawling around, she's standing up, she's like playing on her little like toy DJ set and like dancing and smiling and laughing with us. So like it's gonna be it's just cool to think about like wow, she's gonna be running around and talking, and you know, that that's gonna be a whole different stage of parenting that I'm sure will have its own challenges and everything, you know, with it. But I it's just it's just fun, man. Like I can't wait to see her grow and for us to continue growing our family.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:17

That's beautiful, man. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

Appreciate it. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

Of course. I appreciate you coming on, brother. And for anybody who wants to learn more about you, see some of your content, hear you in other places, where should we send them?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:30

Yeah, Instagram is probably the the best place. So Herman Lynn Fitness um on Instagram. If you want to find my podcast, I do a Brooks Coleman. It's the Fit for Life podcast. Um, although the name might be changing soon, so maybe you won't find it, but reach out on Instagram. That's probably the best place.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

Sure. I'll tell you what, I'll add everything to the show notes. And if the name or location of the podcast changes, just tell me and I'll update the show notes on paw. Great. Thank you again, man. I appreciate you. Thank you, man.