Forming a New Identity, Quieting Food Noise, & Navigating Bad Body Image with Ryan Kassim

On this episode of Transformation Talks, we're joined by Ryan Kassim, a strength and nutrition coach, the creator of the Live Life Sooner Method, and the host of These Little Moments podcast.

Through his brand, Body By Ryan, he’s helped thousands of people end yo-yo dieting, quiet food noise, and build sustainable habits that last for life.

We chatted about how to form a new identity by challenging the stories you tell yourself, quieting food noise with a multifaceted approach, navigating bad body image days, the power of therapy, and more.

Ryan's site: https://bodybyryan.com/

His Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bodybyryanfitness/

His podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/these-little-moments-podcast/id1483398422

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Let me know any thoughts or questions you have on the episode here: mail@samforget.com

For more support and accountability, apply for coaching here: https://samforget.com/coaching/

Or get started for FREE with my one-stop nutrition guide: https://freenutritionguide.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome back to another episode of Transformation Talks. I'm your host, Sam Forger, and today we'll be joined by Ryan Casom, who is a strength and nutrition coach, the creator of the Live Life Sooner Method, and the host of These Little Moments podcast. Through his brand, Body by Ryan, he's helped thousands of people and yo-yo dieting, quiet food noise, and build sustainable habits that last for life. Ryan, appreciate you being here, brother. Hey, what an honor, huh?

SPEAKER_01 0:39

I always the honor is mine to have you as a podcast. Like we weren't just shooting this shit for like 10 minutes before this. It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Always gonna take it from the top. That's right. What I would love to start with is the live life sooner method. What exactly does that mean? Like, how are you helping people live life sooner? And what do you feel like people typically do?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah. So the the context behind that was so I was an in-person trainer for years, like six, seven years at like an LLA fitness. And what I would always notice is, you know, people lose weight, right, for a bit, they get strong for a bit, and then they would just keep self-sabotaging. And I'm not sure like if you've been like the corporate setting for training, but you're with people for like 25, 30 minute sessions. You see them maybe once or twice a week, depending on like the package they buy and stuff like that. So I remember I was training this one client, and she was, she must have been in her 70s. And we were just talking, and and she was just really saying, like beating herself up from like a body image standpoint, you know, asking me if she should cut sugar out of her diet, uh, you know, saying, is this food good or bad? And it really just kind of like, I had like this little moment where I just paused and I was just like, man, this breaks my heart because this person has spent the entirety of their life in fear of foods, in fear of weight gained on the scale, in in in fear of their body image and not having a good relationship with their body. And I and I just kind of in that moment, I was like, man, I gotta get my clients to be able to live life sooner. I go, wait until you're 70 or 80 to feel like you're just starting to figure out. I go, that's that's not good enough. So that's really where I came up with that motto for my coaching per was like, let's get you to live life sooner. So what that means for me is let's make sure that, hey, you have a good relationship with food. Let's make sure you have a really good body image and you feel comfortable with your body, feel confident. Let's make sure you're not wasting your time on bad diets or, you know, doing workout programs that feel unsustainable. Let's make sure you're doing something that we can get you doing for at least the next 10 years of your life and not take up so much mental bandwidth and real estate of feeling like, you know, whatever you hear on the news and if seed oils are bad or this is bad, or like, and just get rid of that noise so that you can actually enjoy life and be present and get to doing what, in my opinion, what we're born on this earth to do is just enjoy this moment, right? And and be present. So that's really what my method is all about.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

What I love about that is that it reinforces that you can make progress toward whatever your health and fitness goals are and live your life simultaneously because I'm trying to remember this is a random reference, but there was a comedian who did a great bit on how I can either not eat cookies and lose weight, or I can be happy. Like these things have to be at odds, right? I'm either living my life, enjoying, you know, whatever these things are, or I can be miserable and make progress toward my fitness goals. Whereas the way you're describing it, it's again reinforcing that these things can actually happen at the same time. You can say not fear cookies, they can be a part of your plan. And you can also approach things in a way where you are making progress toward your goals.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that a lot of people think there's like that dichotomy, right? It's like, and again, that's kind of like all or nothing thinking too. It's like, for your example, I can either eat the cookies and be very happy, or I can forego the cookies and have the body of my dreams. And it's it's like, no, like you can do both. And in fact, I always I always tell people, I'm like, if you do you ever plan on not having a cookie again? If not, great. Like, let's keep going. But if you do plan on having a cookie again, probably should learn how to have it in moderation so that it that there's not this fear around it. Um, and we can just make sure that you can you feel like you can have three cookies and you're good. It doesn't have to be all the cookies either.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Sure. What would you say to somebody who responds to that with Ryan? It is literally not possible for me to have two or three cookies. I have three and I'm having 300. There is no in-between. You know, what are your thoughts? What are some strategies you would give that person?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Well, first I would I would tell them that's bullshit. Because there's there's plenty of instances where people have moderation in life. Like I don't see anybody saying, Well, I brushed my teeth once. That means I had to brush them 20 times today. It's like, well, speak for yourself, Ryan. I didn't get the smile from nothing. This is braces, buddy. Three years of braces. But uh, but but again, I think it and it's so one I would be like, hey, is that actually written? And is that 100% true? That that's one thing I go around with my clients is like, are we telling ourselves a story? And is this a hundred percent based fact? Right. Because what it really comes down to, that that is an identity issue. Okay, you are identifying the person who can't just stop at one cookie. Okay. So what we know about identity, this is why in how I coach is like, I don't want to focus on habits, I want to focus on identity. Because if we can shift your identity to somebody who can have cookies in moderation and move the fuck on rather than the person who can't just stop at one, then those habits shift along with it, right? So it all starts with how you perceive yourself. Okay. So if we want to create behavior change, then we need to start with how you view yourself, the identity within. Okay. So it all starts with, hey, like, this is how you view yourself. So we need to create awareness around the identity that they perceive themselves to have, and ask them, like, is this 100% true? Right. Like, has there been a time where you've been able to have one cookie and you've been good? Right. All we need to do is find that one piece of evidence, or we need to create it, but find that one piece of evidence where you're like, oh, I can, or I did do that one time, and that like that was possible. It's not always 100% true. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to change identity and we're trying to identify limiting beliefs. Limiting beliefs is the stories we tell ourselves. I always say, like, we're great storytellers. So if you keep telling yourself that I can't stop at one cookie, well, now your brain does a really good job at finding all the evidence where you haven't been able to stop at one cookie. Okay, your brain is trained to find patterns and evidence. So what we need to do is call out that bullshit and we need to introduce new evidence, right? So whether it's us creating the action, right? That client creating the action saying, like, yeah, I had those two cookies and I moved on. It was great. That's evidence, right? Or we find previous previous evidence and we just gather it all. It's like, it's like we're both lawyers and we're trying to prove why my client is able to eat the fucking cookie and move on, right? So it all starts from identity-based work when the identity is shifted, behavior shift. And then it also starts with doing the work of catching your limiting beliefs, creating awareness around them, factor fiction, and then finding and inserting evidence and then maintaining this new belief by catching it and again following it up with action that supports this new identity we're trying to create.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Yeah, just compiling as much proof as possible that your initial story was not 100% unequivocally true, cannot be changed. Um, I like that a lot, especially the idea of thinking from an identity perspective and almost working backwards from there rather than jumping straight to the habits, which would be significantly harder to address if your identity feels completely set in stone. You know, the usual, I'm not somebody who can do X, Y, and Z. I'm always somebody who has done whatever. You know, we both hear this all the time with, you know, bread and butter is my weakness before dinner. Like I just can't control myself around it. Well, how do we feel like dinner will generally go when you are brought those things prior to dinner? If you've been telling yourself that, likely for years, if not decades, it just feels like this fixed thing or okay, the bread and butter is here. I guess here's what happens next. So I like both the again, working backwards, identity, and then how it'll spill over into habits. But honestly, also the fact that you just challenged it immediately. I I think, yeah, of course, we meet people where they're at, you know, we, you know, okay, we'll hear out certain things, but I also think that's what holding somebody accountable can look like. Hey, I'm gonna gently push back on this. I'm gonna challenge things a little bit, the story that you've been telling yourself for a while. I think that can be enormously effective.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, I think it's how I also look at it too is if somebody only knows one story, right? If you've been telling yourself a story the whole time, it's like it's like if you grew up in a house and you stayed in that same room, that one room the whole time, all you know about that house is that one room. That's what you perceive the house to be. Whereas you had no idea that's like a 20-bedroom house, right? There's so many other rooms that you haven't accessed yet. So it makes sense why people just stay in that lane, right? Why they just say, like, this is it, this is all I've known. It's because it's all you've known, it's all you've told yourself. Whereas our job as coaches is just say, like, hey, let me open this door, and you can see that there's so many other rooms for you to step into, right? And there's so many other rooms for you to step into. And if we could just illuminate that and say that this is your possibilities, and you don't have to stay in this room, I think that just gives people hope. But it also, like I said, it kind of shows you like the story you've been telling yourself is fiction. And I mean, same thing. We were just talking about you practicing your Spanish, right? And how you maybe you keep telling yourself, like, I'm shit at Spanish, right? And your brain keeps finding all the evidence of why San Forger sucks at Spanish. And, you know, but like you've also come a long way. You've moved to another country, you practice all the time, right? And you're you're put in opportunities and places to practice your Spanish. So is it fair to say that you suck at Spanish? Probably not. It's probably more fair to say like your Spanish is improving and you're gonna get better at it, right? So I think it's the stories we tell ourselves are really important. And if if we always have the same angle, then it makes sense why we're gonna stay in the same path.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

100% fair what you're saying. And about the story that I tell myself often. And ironically enough, I feel like I often lead with that in Spanish. Like, hey, just so you know, my Spanish is pretty bad, like when I'm attempting to speak it, because in my head, it almost lets me off the hook or it, you know, relieves pressure on myself. But in reality, it just keeps me in a box as somebody whose Spanish is very, very poor. It certainly makes me feel worse about myself. It makes it feel fixed. So, what I have done recently, I'm not always great about it, but I've I've been getting better, is instead of just having the default response of like, oh, my Spanish is bad, and because it's like a fear-based thing, it's more I'm learning, my Spanish is a little better. And if you speak slowly, I will probably be able to understand you because then it feels like to use your analogy, I've actually opened the door to that room that I've been hanging out in. I'm like, okay, there's a little bit more out here, and ooh, I like these spots actually a lot more. And I do find that I am able to uh to rack up a lot more proof that I'm not totally trash. Now I'm not where I want to be yet, but by stepping out of that door, which would never be possible unless I reframe things a little bit. So again, still not always great at it, but that's a super fair point that when I tell myself something so fixed, which is oh I'm trash, it's trash at Spanish, that's the most likely next outcome, is that I do get more nervous or flustered, or maybe don't even try.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Well, look at now take that and replace Spanish with weight loss or replace Spanish with strength training, right? Everything you just said is what we all go through, but what we're trying to, the goal can interchange, right? So it makes sense for people with weight loss. Is yeah, if I don't feel confident, if I feel timid, if I'm scared, if I feel like I'm putting pressure on myself to get to a certain weight by a certain time, then what did you just say? You're like, well, I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna fall off, right? I'm gonna give up, which is exactly what people did, right? So that's why it's just really important. It all starts with how you're viewing yourself, right? And and the identity you're creating. It's totally cool to say I'm somebody who's working on this. That's totally fine. But to keep telling yourself that I suck at this, I'm never gonna do this, like I'm always gonna eat these cookies, like I can't stop at one. It's like, and no shit, Sherlock. You just keep watering the plant that's telling that story.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Right. Backtracking to that client that you mentioned earlier in your career. You said that you felt bad, understandably, because it just felt like food was taking up so much space in her head. She was just wrestling with guilt, anxiety, fear, all of these things all the time. And I would put that under the umbrella of food noise type things, which is obviously becoming deservedly so and increasingly go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I was gonna say it's hot. Food noise is hot right now.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah, super, super. Um, and I think it's good that it is getting a name. Maybe it's always had a name, to be honest. I'm not sure the the origins of it, but it's it's seemingly much more commonplace now for people to mostly know what food noise is when you talk about it, because it's something that resonates with a lot of people. So, what I'm curious about, because I've heard people come at this different ways, is how you would define food noise, some examples of it, and then also some strategies that you would give clients to help quiet that noise to a degree so they can focus more on living their lives and not have so much bandwidth be taken up by food stuff.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Very, very good question, Mr. Forge. So, how I would define food noise is yeah, have did you ever watch the food network growing up as a kid? No, I didn't have cable.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Oh, hey. Okay, well, here's another example.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Do you ever on Instagram now? Are you have you been like, have you consumed a bunch of food content? Like, like whether it's like food reviews or brother, dude.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

My my whole feed is like travel porn and tattoos. It's it's like zeroing me.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

You know what this guy likes. This guy likes so here's how I would phrase it then. This is for everybody else. Yeah, the rest of the world. Talking to the fucking elephant here. Um, so food noise, how I would define it. Like when I would grow when I was growing up, my sister, she's a chef now, but like we would she would always be watching Food Network, okay? And whenever you're watching these shows, you're just like all of a sudden you're hungry now, right? You're like, oh, that looks so good, right? So, how I imagine is someone who watched some food noise and then you just turn the volume up really high, right? So, like, that's all you can hear. That's all you could focus on. So, food noise could be somebody who can't stop thinking about what their next meal is gonna be. It could be somebody who's literally eating a meal and thinking about what their next meal is gonna be. It could be someone who's, you know, worried about how many calories they have left and can they sit enough food in the in their diet? It could be someone who's constantly thinking about dessert or sweets. It could be somebody who, when they're going through an emotional time, they think about food because that's like their coping mechanism. So food noise, it's kind of like a uh a juggernaut, if you will. Like it's it's not just like one thing, it's a multitude of things that feed into like this hide mind, right? I think when we when I was coming up coaching, and I know you've been a coach for a long time too, but like the food noise wasn't like a term, but we would still see it with clients, right? Like that's why we talk about like relationship with food is important because that's like part of food noise. That's why we talk about you know, making sure you're eating uh satiating meals so you're not like starving right after you meet you you finish your meals, you're not thinking about what the next meal is gonna be. That's why we've been talking about all these things. It's just that with GLP1s now, all this stuff coming out, that's like the big term, the umbrella term that's used to say, like, hey, this helps with food noise, and so you're not just not thinking about it anymore. So, new term, but symptoms and all that has been around forever, right? So those are the examples of food noise. How do we lower your food noise? I think that's really important. And for each person, it's gonna be individual, right? It's not a one size fix for everybody. So, for example, the person who uses food to cope with emotion, that's that's an entirely different subset of food noise. So, how would we how would we work on that? Well, one thing we need to do is we need to, hey, let's get down, like, what is that food noise saying to you? Right? Like, what is the actual words that you are hearing? Like, define that, say it out loud. And then when you're feeling a certain emotion or something's coming up, asking yourself, well, what do I actually need right now? Okay. So we start getting into regulation when it comes to the emotional food noise. Because if someone who pokes with food whenever they're feeling boredom or stress, then that's what our brain is wired to do currently. Our brain is wired to say, like, oh, something feels uncomfortable. I need to quiet this with a burger, or I need to quiet this with some Chips Ahoy, right? It's it's a safety. Like, it's like literally your brain's trying to protect you from a perceived threat, which is kind of like beautiful in itself. It's like the brain is just trying to make sure you're good. But we can also recognize like that way of coping just isn't beneficial to us because it's not actually letting us get to the roots of the pain, right? So the root of the pain could be maybe you need co-regulation, right? Maybe you move to a new country, you don't have many friends, you're feeling kind of lonely, and you know, you really just need somebody to talk to, right? Maybe you need uh upregulation, which is like you're bored and you're actually just looking for a stimulus. And this stimulus might you always choose as food, but maybe it's a walk, maybe it's going, you know, on a hike, maybe it's something that it's going to a ceramics class, like something that can be stimulating but is healthy in a way, right? And then maybe it's down regulation, right? We live in a very stimulating world right now. Like maybe you just need to chill. And maybe things such as journaling or meditation or box breathing or going to a yoga class, doing a mindful walk, mindful eating, like things that can help bring you from a fight or flight state to just a more regulated, peaceful state. So by doing sort of these things, by identifying what we need, that is going to help from an emotional standpoint to help with the food noise that stems from emotions. Okay, so learning how to regulate, identifying what our body needs is really important because I always tell my clients the more specific we can get with your emotions, the more specific we can get with solutions. Okay, if we can really hammer home, oh, it's like loneliness right now, great. Then we need to find ways to co-regulate that are healthy for us, right? If it's hunger or things like that, right, then that's a different subject of like, hey, what do your meals look like? Right? Like, let's talk about volume eating. Let's talk about how we can get the most out of your meals. Let's talk about protein, let's talk about fiber. Let's make sure you're walking away from your meals feeling full, right? Like that's really important. So, especially if we're trying to lose weight, your hunger is gonna be Pretty, pretty high compared to like when you're not. So just really important. Like if food noise is stemming from hunger, then hey, we need to learn how to build your meals so that they just feel more satiating. Another thing of food noise is restriction. Right. So we see this a lot with people who look at foods as good or bad, right? Hey, I see a salad, what do you think? You think good, right? Hey, I see top of the chip cookies, bad. I can't have that fat. I'll gain fat from that. So we need to build a better relationship with these foods so that they're not taking up so much mental bandwidth, right? So how do we do that? Well, we need evidence and we need to prove to ourselves that, hey, I can have a cookie and still lose weight. So how do we do that? What I'll have my clients do is I want you to track a chocolate chip cookie. You're gonna work your day around it, you're still gonna hit your calories, you're still gonna hit your protein goals, and you're gonna eat this chocolate chip cookie. And the difference is we're allowing ourselves to have this chocolate chip cookie rather than having that restricted mindset. What comes with a restricted mindset comes with shame, comes with guilt. An allowance mindset comes with like what we talk about, like food freedom. It's like you're allowing yourself to have this food by not saying no, the brain doesn't see it as like a must-have now, right? It sees it as something you can have anytime, which is abundance, right? It's no longer scarcity. So there's a there's a fuck ton when it comes to food noise, right? There's so, so much that goes into it. But I'd say like those are probably the three biggest pillars when it comes to food noise and and what they attribute it to. Um, and and what we're finding like with GLP1 stuff is that obviously it's gonna help with hunger. Um, you know, it helps a lot with like the dopamine receptors as well. It's like so people who kind of get like a little dopamine high from like having certain foods like helps with that. So that's why it's really hot right now. That term food noise is just because like how GLP1s are used right now. Um, but it's also important to know like, hey, you don't need to go on a GLP one to work on food noise. It's a tool, we don't need it, but hey, like it's very possible that to reduce your food noise um by just working on like those big three things and seeing which one specifically is it's closer home for you.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah, I think you explained that perfectly because like we both said it's a very hot term right now that I think everybody's throwing around, which is fine. But I do think we need to go a little bit deeper and say, like, okay, what what exactly is this? Okay, that resonates with me. And then what might the source of that be? Because, like you said, the more specific you can get with whatever the source is, is this mostly just a physiological thing? I'm not setting up my meals, for example, to manage my hunger well. Is it from a history of restrictive dieting? Is it a an emotional regulation skill set thing? The more specific we get there, the more effective we can be with strategizing potent potential solutions. And I'd also say that um I feel like most people, it's it's a combination of the three things that you mentioned. You know, I do think a lot of people don't totally know how to manage their hunger well, whether they're always trying to eat as little as possible because they think that's better, you know, not getting enough protein, not really knowing about food volume, but then maybe they have a history of restrictive dieting. And they're also in fight or flight all the time and they're not sure how to regulate that. So I do like how these categories give a lot more clarity to what potential solutions could be. So food is not taking up so much space in your head all the time. Because that just gets so exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Absolutely, dude. And I I think that's that's the big thing is when you're exhausted and you're and you feel overwhelmed, like you said, like when you when you feel that with your Spanish, it's like, well, you stop, right? Because it's just it just feels like too much. And again, that's a pattern of your brain trying to protect you. It's like, well, let's just not do this, right? Avoidance, right? Let's just avoid this perceived threat. But again, if we can work through it and and find where it stems from, then it gives you clarity, and clarity gives you hope. And when you have hope, you're like, oh, I could do this shit for sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Ryan, speaking of what tends to take up a lot of bandwidth for people, let's talk body image. I want to hear more about what you would tell somebody who does struggle with this, who is extremely hard on themselves and they look in the mirror, who is constantly putting themselves under some sort of microscope and generally not liking what they see. Because of course, you hear all this stuff about like love your body no matter what, but that can feel to some people almost like excessively positive. Like, okay, I'm not happy with where I'm at right now. How am I supposed to love my body? Like, that feels like I need to look a certain way prior to me reaching that point. So, you know, what are some strategies you'd give somebody who also has a lot of bandwidth taken up by this?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Well, I think one, the love your body, it just sounds so um like deafening. It does like it sounds like when somebody's trying to lose weight and you're like, well, just eat less and move more, dude. It's like, what are we doing here? You know? So it just lacks it lacks substance. And I think I could speak personally, like body image is something I struggled with for years, right? It's sometimes stuff I still struggle with. And I think that's important to say too. It's like we don't have to fix anything. That's really important. I think most of the time people think like you have a bad body image. I need to fix this. When we say fix it, it almost says like something's wrong with me. Nothing's wrong with you. Okay, nothing's wrong with you. We all experience poor body image at times, right? Even from the most elite level athletes to someone who might feel overweight or anything like that. It's like we all experience it. And to speak on what's helped me personally, I think one shifting, shifting my training from how I work out to not be about aesthetics. I think that's really important. Whenever I've focused on aesthetics, then how do we measure that? Like, what's how do I know I get to my goal? It's like, well, I have to constantly judge my body, be in certain lighting, and like compare myself to others, right? Like that's how you sort of perceive if you've made it to your goal. Rather than when I shift my training to more performance based, well, now I can measure, oh, I'm in less pain. Oh, my resting heart rate's going down. Oh, I'm seeing strength with my overhead press. You know, my mile time's improving. Like, there's so many things that you can look at from a data perspective that's like, wow, I'm I'm getting better here. Like, this is amazing. Look at look at what my body can do, not just what it looks like. I think that's really important. The other thing I I think that can be helpful for others that has helped me is man, you gotta thank your body, right? You gotta thank, and this is something I'm super passionate about because I'm I think it's the lamest shit that like I don't know if you've ever been to a wedding, but like the the people who've had you at their weddings, you give them the gift, like they send you a thank you card usually, right? Thanks, Sam, for the crock pot, right? Very cool gift, right? But why super cool gift? Thanks, man. We'll use this for sure. It was on your registry. Um but why can't we take that small amount of effort to thank ourselves, to thank our bodies, right? Like we go through such extremes with you know thanking others for other things or like people pleasing, stuff like that. But like when it comes to thanking our body for what it does, like thank your body, thank you, stomach for digesting those spicy wings I had the other day. Like you I I did some damage to you, and and thank you for getting me through that. Or like, thank you, lungs, for letting me breathe when I was just grieving a friend who passed away, or thank you, heart, for still beating while I was going through a really stressful event. It's like your body is amazing and it does really, really cool shit all the time without you having to ask it for anything. And it's been, it's the only thing that's been with you a hundred percent of your life. So that's how I look at body image and and and how I go about thanking it is when I catch myself like like, oh, my hair is thinning, or I catch myself like, you know, my stomach sticking out and bloating, it's like, oh man, thank you for for being there for me. Thank you for digesting this food, like thank you for breathing when I didn't like start thanking your body for the things it's doing instead of always just going to tearing it down. And we talked about like brain pattern and and like all that. It's it's we need to quite literally retrain your brain in this case. Your first thought when you see a photo is you look at yourself and you pick yourself apart. How do I look in this photo? It's like, well, why don't we look at this photo and say, like, man, this was a beautiful memory, right? Like, I remember these laughs, I remember being on this beach, right? Like, I remember like I was so nervous in this moment. Like, why don't we ground ourselves instead of just going right to, man, I look so bad in this photo. Like, look at my love handles, look at the way my jeans fit. It's like that's exhausting because that's like you have allowed a bully into your life constantly. And I don't know if you've ever been bullied before, but that shit is exhausting. It is frightening. You feel like a shell of yourself, you you feel like you can't go to certain places. Like that's what it is. You're bullying yourself. So things that have helped me is reframing why I train. Things that have helped me is thanking my body for all that it's done, and that's a constant. And other thing is is grace, man. It's like it's like I've been I've been doing this shit for a long time now, and like some days you just have a body image day, and it doesn't mean anything's wrong with you. If anything, it means you're human, it means you're very normal. And like giving yourself grace in those moments is so, so important. And understanding, like, hey, this is also just a moment. This is just a moment. This is not gonna say what tomorrow's gonna be like, this is not gonna say what this week's gonna be like, oh, this month or year. It doesn't, this is a moment right now. Okay, and I do I it's in my power to not take this beyond this moment. That's what's really important. So there's there's the training aspect and there's that self-talk aspect that is just genuinely, genuinely so important uh when it comes to body image. And uh I think the more and more we talk about it, I think it's just really helpful. That's why I talk about it on my page, because we always think body image is associated with people who are either overweight or skinny, but it's like everybody goes through it. Everybody goes through it. And if we can normalize it, well, then it makes us feel just a little bit better on those days where we maybe have a harder body image day. And I think that vulnerability elicits permission for people. And I think that's really important in whatever subjects we're discussing.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Definitely. I uh I like, or something I should say that's been very helpful for me has been what you mentioned at the end, reminding myself that okay, I may not be super happy with what I see in the mirror right now, but I've been here a bazillion times in my life. And each time, this intense level of scrutiny and like the not so great feelings that I'm having, they've passed every time. And maybe 48 hours from now, I feel like a hot shit again. Like it just comes in waves in either direction. So I do think reminding yourself this is not a permanent state type thing because I think it's so easy to get zoomed in on like, you know, that kind of I hate myself, a lot of negative self-talk, but um some advice that I got years ago, and I know this this is applied to a lot of different things, is like the cloud passing by analogy, like to go back to identity from the beginning of the episode. It's not I'm Sam, I'm somebody who hates the way I look, and you know, this, that, the other. It's okay, I'm Sam. In this moment, I have this feeling that I'm not loving, but this is external for me, and just like a cloud passing by, it's gonna go away. And then maybe the next cloud that comes through, I feel a lot better about the way that I look today. So reminding myself, hey, this is more of a temporary thing that and good good clouds come by too. It's not just you know, bad cloud after bad cloud.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, I love that analogy. I think it's like, oh man, if fifth grade me, fifth grade me knew all the types of clouds, which would have been cool. But like you think of like, there's different types of clouds, man. There's like Nimbus clouds and all this, like, and it's kind of looking at like as different opportunities and and different moments to to just observe, right? I think that's the most important part is is clouds are gonna come and clouds are gonna go. And there's gonna be different types of clouds that come in your life. And I think it's really important just to, it's part of the is the acceptance of it, the observance of it. And like you said, understand like, hey, this cloud's not gonna be here forever.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

And one other thing you mentioned that I think is important to reinforce is how bad body image, quote unquote, happens to people of a variety of body types and body fat percentages. Like there's no number on the scale that you can reach where you were now exempt from bad body image days. There's no body fat percentage where that's not gonna happen to you anymore. And I don't, you know, re-emphasize that, reinforce that to make you feel depressed, like fuck, I'm gonna deal with this shit forever, but to set the expectation that it's normal. It's like the most human thing ever, that that stuff is gonna come in waves. And, you know, an example with myself is when I was prepping for a physique show, actually, around the time that we met at the Real Coaches Summit two years ago, I was a few months out from a physique show. And I mean, I got leaner than I'd ever been in my life. So you'd think that I would look in the mirror and be mostly happy with what I saw. I spent the last three weeks of my prep pissed that apparently I have scar tissue in my lower stomach. So my lower abs weren't as flat as I was hoping, which sounds ridiculous to 99% of people. But I say that again to emphasize the point that, like, we're all gonna experience this at some point. And I don't want somebody to feel like, well, I'm just gonna hate myself until I weigh a certain amount where I reach a certain body fat percentage, then I'll be good. It's like, no, this stuff's gonna keep coming in ebbs and flows. We just need to build out our toolbox for how to navigate that stuff, regardless of our body size, because our bodies are gonna constantly fluctuate our entire lives.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

1000%. I think that's a great example. It's like you got to your leanest, and I think that's that's important because people who struggle with body image, like they think that their sanctuary is at a certain body weight, a certain pant size, or a certain physique goal. But it's not. It's not. I've been I've been there too. It's it's not. It's something why we have to challenge ourselves is why are we why are we putting our happiness or our confidence or like a healthy body image on layaway, you know, to be obtained later. It's like, no, like we can we can start to thank ourselves each season of life we're in, each each body type we're in, and that is healthy. And and that's how you can also, if you do have this weight loss goal and you do get to a certain body that, you know, that you do feel more confident, because that that's a thing too. It's like, but you're gonna find yourself picking yourself apart less, and you're gonna find yourself appreciating yourself more when you've been doing this sort of work throughout the process. Like, don't wait until you feel like you you you can be happy when you hit this end goal. It's like the work can start now, and it's actually if you can love yourself in this moment, there we go, love yourself, but like if you can find ways to really appreciate yourself, love yourself, uh, you know, find reasons that your body's amazing, you know, train in a certain way to to say, like, holy crap, I didn't know I could get that push-up or that pull. Like that's that's really helpful to lead you to where you're trying to go. So it's really important to work on that now, too. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

One last example I'll throw in here. A client of mine who was being, I mean, she had made objectively great progress in a variety of areas, but like many people was still feeling she was still being pretty hard on herself for the way that she looked. Funny enough, if you showed her six months prior where she was at when she was still picking herself apart, I'm sure she would have thought, oh, I'll be happy when, like I won't have those bad days when. But so she had made great progress. She was being still, you know, relatively hard on herself. And then she went away on a solo hiking trip and did some crazy, like multi-hour hikes where she had some crazy views. She's into photography, so she got some great shots. And when she came back from the trip, she actually said to me that she flipped more of a switch in her head of like, okay, this body that I'm being so hard on just allowed me to experience some of the most beautiful hikes, beautiful nature, like all these crazy things that now when she looks back on this trip, she's not going to think about what her legs looked like while she was hiking. She's gonna see these photos and be like, that was fucking sick. Maybe my words, not hers, but you know, that was just incredible. Like the views that I had and all these things, which I know helped her a lot using that strategy you mentioned. Of let me think a bit more, not just what my body looks like, because that how you feel about that is always gonna come and go. But let me think a little bit more about what my body is allowing me to do on a daily basis, often without you even thinking about it. She wasn't thinking about you know her quads and hamstrings when she was going up these hikes, she was just taking in all the stuff around her. So obviously, I was stoked with her and I loved it. That is fucking sick.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

I love that she she experienced that. I think, and I think that's something I used to train a lot of geriatric folks like a couple years ago when I first moved to San Diego. And I think that's something that helped me too when it came to this stuff, because when you get to like your twilight era of life, like all those people, they're not thinking about weight loss for the most part. Like these people, like 80s, 90s, they're thinking about how can I not fall? How can I get to go see my grandson play at his baseball game? They're thinking, you know, how can I live as long as I can? They're thinking, how can I improve my heart health? Like that's kind of where goals shift. And I think it's really important. If we could shift to sort of that type of mentality goal-wise now, then one, it changes your training, two, it stops you from looking at like what your body can just look like and what it and what it does. And then also it just allows us to sort of get ahead of it and to appreciate the body for what it does. Uh and again, like end of end of life, like most people aren't thinking about like fitting into jeans, they're thinking about like, can I get these jeans on without my aid helping me? Right? Like, can I do this as independent as possible? So I think that sort of seeing the twilight when I was training these clients really helped me too. Um, because it's like, man, look what I can do. I can go for this bike right now. I'm not restricted to this one area where people have to watch me. Like, I can go where I want when I want right now. And I think for me, that was like another like, don't waste this shit. Don't waste it. Don't waste another moment like beating yourself up or feeling like it's impossible for you when it's very much possible for you. And there's there's so much life outside these four walls that this one room that you've been in.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Now what lit a fire under my ass? I wish I could give quote to the uh origin or excuse me, give credit to the original source of the quote. But it was a podcast guest, and the topic was about being physically disabled. And again, I wish I could remember the guest. They reframed things and said, Well, you gotta keep in mind, we're all only temporarily abled. I'm like, oh like, which I guess theoretically sounds straightforward, yeah, but I think we tend to, you know, put it in two categories of people who have had an unfortunate circumstance that are um physically disabled in some way, and then like, yeah, I can just kind of do whatever, whatever. But for you know, whatever the source of the physical limitation ends up being, at a certain point, we will become more and more limited. So that was, I guess, something that stuck with me as even more of a reason to not only take advantage of all the things I can currently do physically, just an incentive to move my body. But also, recurring theme here, also appreciate what I'm currently able to do. Cause whether it's the way that I look right now or whether it's the way or what I'm physically capable of right now, I know there is a version of me in the future that would do anything to look the way I look right now and to be able to do the things I can currently do. So I find that very helpful as well. Like you said, the future focus and then kind of looking back on, yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna think too much about my my abs on this this beach vacation. I'm just gonna think about the time I swam with dolphins or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Right. I I love that quote. I think that temporarily abled is it's true, dude. I mean, think of all of our all of our mentors who we looked up to, and uh, you know, like like people get older and you know, like your abilities diminish over time, you know, and and it is a good like it's a just it's just a good kick in the butt sometimes that you need when you're just like, man, like I I hey, I allowed myself to feel this, like that's good, that's actually really healthy mentally, but I cannot dwell on it, right? And that's like a good insert kick in the butt here, and like, hey, you got some life to be living here, you know?

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Yes, absolutely. Ryan, keeping with the kind of mental theme here, the headspace theme, I've seen you post a lot about therapy and how it's benefited you. And something that I would love your take on, because you see people come at this in so many ways, is the idea of, well, the gym is my therapy. Like I I train, that's where I get my demons out. You know, that's good for me. And again, you see people who believe in that wholeheartedly, people who think that's the worst advice ever. Like, where do you stand on the idea of you know the gym being somebody's therapy?

SPEAKER_00 45:47

So I have the perspective of somebody who I used to say that, right? I used to say the gym is my therapy. And I also have the perspective of it was until it wasn't. So what I mean by that was my mental health got to a point where the gym no longer did what it used to for me. So what I mean by that, it's like I you know when you have that first cup of coffee and you're like, you're like, holy shit, this is great. Like, I I could do anything right now. And then you keep having more, and then before you know it, you're like, I need six cups of coffee just to get that same rush, right? So that's that's what working out became for me. It no longer became therapy, it just became obvious to me that I couldn't ignore my bullshit anymore. That I was struggling with a lot, and no amount of bench pressing or leg pressing or uh walking lunges was going to help with that. And for me, it came to a head because I started having panic attacks. And they started first off like randomly during the day, then they would be something where I'd have them every time I'd wake up in the morning. Then it became something where I would actually have them like mid-work out. So the very thing I was using to help when I proceed this therapy, it wasn't anymore, right? It was it was almost like infected. And where I stand on it is I I see the gym as therapeutic. I see the gym as, hey, it's actually good to move your body. We talked about like upregulation before. It's good to move your body. My therapist always says, like, move your body, change of thought, right? So that means it could take you from just a very emotional state of dwelling on something or how you're looking at it. Hey, move your body. Hey, maybe now you you've gotten some of that stress down and you're able to look at the situation more clearly and with more clarity. But the gym isn't therapy. The gym isn't therapy. You're not working on how to set boundaries with a significant other while you're bench pressing. You are not working on, you know, how to uh, you know, initiate hard conversations. You're not working on uh people pleasing, you're not working on um, you know, stress management. You're you're just it's almost like it's just avoidance when you just work out and not training. What therapy does is it can take your thoughts, help you get through all the bullshit, give you like these light bulb moments, like oh, or help you navigate like like situations or relationships. For me, it became something where it helped me work on symptoms like anxiety and depression. It then also helped me navigate the roots of my stuff, like grief I was in processing, or uh, like I said, having hard conversations with people I love that you know, I thought if I had these conversations, I would hurt them and they wouldn't want to be in this relationship with me anymore. But like therapy helped me reframe that and say, like, actually initiating these hard conversations means you want this person in your life and you're gonna you want to work on it. So the gym is not therapy, it's therapeutic. Therapy is actually therapy, go figure. And I think having things in your life that are therapeutic are amazing, and it to get you in a better headspace is always a good thing. But uh the work, and I I say this with therapy too, the work always starts as soon as you either step out of that gym or you step out of that therapy room, right? The the actions that you take are are either going to lead you to uh working through that bullshit and getting you to another place that is actually gonna help with that constant stress that you feel or um these arguments that you always find yourself to be in, or you just say, I'm not gonna work on it. Right. So I think it's it's really important. Jim is not therapy, it's therapeutic. Therapy is therapy. But even with therapy, like this is my hard take on this too, is uh just because you go to therapy doesn't mean shit changes for you, right? Like you can either treat therapy as I'm gonna take action after this to work on this, or I'm just gonna pay somebody for an hour just to vent and that's it, right? Not to discredit therapy or to um, you know, like say it's not worth it. It is, I've been in therapy for like eight or nine years now and definitely worth it. But a hundred percent of my amazing moments in life with family and friends have all started with the work I've done in therapy and with me initiating something that we worked on in therapy because I wanted to change this aspect of my life. So that's my long-winded answer for you of uh is is the gym therapy or not? And uh yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

It's a great answer, and what resonates with me a lot is the idea of like, okay, you'll learn some things about yourself in therapy, you'll come to conclusions, you'll identify patterns, but then ideally you're doing something with that information and not staying in certain cycles just by you know having the same conversations over and over. Not that there's no merit to venting, like you said, of course there is, you know, great, get some things off your chest, but in order to see progress from that, you got to do something with it. And I had a similar experience years ago, the first time that I ever tried talking to a therapist. And I mean, maybe the first half a dozen conversations were just getting things out of my head. It was a lot of like, I feel like there's a lot rattling around. Let me just get it out here so I can kind of organize again, spot patterns, things that I want to work on. But then at that point, yeah, you know, for my goals, let me do something with these conclusions that I'm coming to, rather than just, you know, again, kind of lead, oh, okay, I've identified this. I gotta go do something with it.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Yeah, 1000%, dude. I think that's that's the biggest thing. And if you can approach therapy with that mindset, like I think that's just really important and set that expectation. Um, you're essentially signing up to do that work the rest of your life. I think that's as soon as you you open that door, right? Like ignorant, they say ignorance is bliss for reason, but as soon as you open that door, you're just like, oh, like this is a life project. I am a life project. And that's that's okay. And there's always gonna be something to work on, right? And that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Sure. And to before we wrap up today, to tie it back to the very beginning of the conversation, I think a lot of the opportunity that therapy can create comes from being being willing to part ways with your current perception of self, the identity that you currently have, the stories that you're telling yourself. And again, you may hone in on these more during therapy, but it all goes back to all right, it's time for me to challenge any variation of, well, I'm just somebody who, whether it's the health and fitness stuff or whether it's just the way you show up in the world in general, like it doesn't have to be, well, I'm just somebody, you know, I'm the type of person who right now, that doesn't mean it has to be a fixed state for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Yeah, 1000%. I think there's there's a lot of past versions of me. Like that's how I look at it. There's there's many versions of me who died to to be the version I am now. And that's kind of the beautiful part of it is you know, it's it's it's always evolving. You're always evolving, and and uh that's the important part is uh yeah, there's just gonna be so many versions of you in this life. And the version of you 10 from 10 years ago is vastly different than the version of you now. You know what I mean? Uh I don't know if you had that many tattoos 10 years ago, but uh or or life light experience.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

Oh it's sad though.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

I wanted them, yeah, I wanted them, but um yeah, yeah. And uh this makes me think of um I think it was it the psychology of money by Morgan Halzel. I believe that's the I'm pulling from the right book, but there's a section in it that says, for whatever, and I'm paraphrasing, of course, but for whatever reason, like every state of life, we always feel like, well, this is my final form. I've learned all the things that I need to learn, and I've gone through all these life experiences, and this is who I am. And then 18 months later, who the fuck was that guy? That like I well, actually, ideally, you're thinking like that, and you don't feel like you are the same exact person. I wish I I'm here I am bringing up all these quotes and stories, and I can't remember the sources, but but tough one note. Yeah, I'm just gonna take credit. These are all my original thoughts. What's the quote that's you know, a a man who's who sees the same world at 50 as he did at 20 didn't actually live those 30 years? Do do you have you heard that one before? No, you're talking about it. Then it's mine for all I know is Martin Luther King or something. This is me. Um right. Before I let you go today, I do want to wrap up with something I called the fast four. So four questions that have nothing to do with health and fitness stuff. Just whatever the first thing to come to mind. Let's go. What would you be doing if you were not a coach?

SPEAKER_00 55:27

I'd be a teacher. I'd be a teacher. Yeah. I think at this point in my life, what from what I've seen, I love helping others. I love uh just like educating, and I love uh I sort of love the the innocence of kids, right? Like kids that just had like such a pure look on the world. And I think the more we can surround ourselves with like just like that beautiful mindset is amazing. I was almost a nurse at one point in a previous life. Um, but I almost failed out of school doing that. So here we are.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

I do there is definitely a common thread though between each of these career paths with the way that you like to help. Yeah. Yeah. What is something small that always improves your mood?

SPEAKER_00 56:13

A slow morning. I love a slow morning, like uh just like nothing like just sitting on like a porch and just like the sunlight hitting your face and just like quiet and stillness. That is like that, or like going out to breakfast. I love a good breakfast on that.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

I'm with you. Argentina has great Argentinian food, Italian food as well, but variety outside of that is pretty limited. So on my short list for my next US visit, I'm basically gonna go straight to a diner. I just I you know they have these things here called Media Lunas, which they don't always like when you make this comparison, but they're basically a glazed croissant. Somebody here would fight me and say, well, they're prepped differently, and it's just but to most of the non-baker world, you would call it a croissant. And it's one of but you go to any cafe or quote unquote breakfast place here, and it's like, uh, una media luna, e cafe col neche, una media luna, eco cafe, like it's just insane. I'm like, it's great, but I can't wait to have a stack of chocolate chip pancakes and French toast and bacon and all these other things. So yeah, no, I guess speaking of moving top of it.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Okay, Ryan, I know you love travel as well. What is a favorite travel experience of yours?

SPEAKER_00 57:37

Japan was awesome. I went to Japan March last year, and that was such a culture shock. Just uh first Asian country I've been to, and it was just it was so clean, it was so beautiful, the people were amazing, just a very respectful culture. The food, I might have said food already, but like that's how good it was. It was insane, dude. The food quality, uh man, it was like every meal I had, I was just like doing double takes. Like, even going to a 7-Eleven man, I'm like, really? I'm like the 7-Eleven near my house, my old house in Connecticut was like the hot dogs were been there for days. You know what I mean? It's like it's like here they had like fruit sandos and like chicken cutlet sandos. I was like, this is amazing. Uh so Japan was really cool. I think one of the most impactful trips I did was I did a solo trip to Europe uh in January last year. And there was a moment where I was in Munich and it was New Year's Eve, about to be New Year's Day, and I was at this like outdoor festival, and we talked about like identities and like all that stuff. Like I had this moment, I was like, the fireworks are going all around me and and all that, and I started crying because I was just like, man, I'm so proud of the person I've become who put himself in this situation uh that we only dreamed of, and we only we always said we wanted to. Like the previous versions of me always said they wanted to travel or they wanted to go somewhere. And here I am in this moment who had just been through a lot that year. I was like, man, this is just like really cool. So those are two two trips I've done recently that were amazing.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

I love that you took a moment to appreciate everything you'd done prior to that point to give yourself the opportunity to experience that. I'm sure this resonates with you as well when I say that I just find it so easy to check a box and move on, check a box and move on. Um I'll keep this brief, but a similar moment that comes to mind for me is when I, you know, stopped in-person coaching. I had transitioned my business online. I moved from my hometown in Massachusetts to Miami, just totally, you know, different from you know how I'd grown up. And I found an apartment. I moved in with zero furniture. I mean nothing. So I went to a, I think it was a Publix down the street or maybe next door, and I bought a beach chair. And I went back to my new apartment with a beach chair, and I was sitting in my totally empty apartment in my beach chair, and I was just so happy. And I feel like that was the honestly one of the prouder moments I've ever had in my life about what I had accomplished, where you know, this I started training people when I was like 16, 17 years old, driving to people's houses, and then fast forward then to my early 20s, where I'm like, I'm in a totally new city and a decent apartment, like an apartment that I was proud of. Like, you know, I'm uh, you know, just in a spot that I'm like I couldn't have imagined even 24 months prior. Like, oh, I have an apartment in Miami now. I didn't give a shit that I was only uh owning a beach chair, and that was the layout of my apartment. It was just like a it was a similar moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think that's a cool imagery of used beach chair and be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:03

That's so concerned. That became a small part of my brand for a while because like I ordered new furniture and stuff, but it's all five to seven days. So I had that, and then maybe like I don't know, half I'm making this up, but half of a couch, a random chair came in. So it was like a three-week period where I just pieced together right like shambles of an apartment. But there was a lot of time in that beach chair. I'd wake up in the morning, I'd get off the blow-up mattress that I had as like my interim. I'd roll over and I'd I'd build the business on my beach chair. So I have very fond memories of that. I love that, dude. Ryan last thing for you, what do you value the most in a friendship?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

Ooh, what do I value the most in a friendship? I think I value vulnerability. I think I value that in any relationship. I think your ability to just be real and convey what's on your heart. I think that's what takes a surface level friendship and really like what my therapist used to say is like something that's as uh deep as a puddle, uh shallow as a puddle or deep as an ocean, right? So I think the ability to be vulnerable, whether it's with your boys or your your friends or relationships, I think that's really for me one of the most important values you can have because it really just builds connection and adds depth to a relationship. And I think that's yeah, I think that's everything to me. It's just, hey, let's just be real and let's uh let's have real talks. Let's not do how's the weather type of bullshit. Like let's just hey if you're struggling, let me know, if vice versa, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

You strike me as somebody who would jump straight to the deeper stuff in like a 10 minutes after meeting you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

Yeah, dude. Yeah, oh yeah. I I surface level conversation drains me. Drains me. You know what I mean? Like, uh so yeah, definitely. I think, and I think that's something I used to shy away from. Now it's something I really I love. And um, you know, it's also like you can only be as vulnerable as someone else allows you to be, you know what I mean? So um that's that's how relationships work. It's it's a give and take. If one person's vulnerable and the other's not, it's it's not gonna be cohesive, you know what I mean? So um it it takes two people willing to go a step beyond that surface level to like create that deep relationship. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

Ryan, if people want to learn more about you, they want to see your content, where should we send them?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

You can send them to at body by Ryan Fitness uh on Instagram, and then I also have a podcast called These Little Moments Podcasts, which I'll have to have you on as well. Uh but yeah, man, that's that's where you can find me. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

I will add those to the show notes. Try that again. Show notes by May. Where are you? He's not from Boston.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

Shout outs, shout out okay, buddy. I'm gonna oops.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Yeah, all over the place. Oh, yeah. I'll add those to the show notes. There we go. Um, those but I I really appreciate you being here, man. This is super fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Yeah, thank you, dude. I appreciate you having me on. It was a great talk. My pleasure. We'll talk soon.