How to Make Your Diet WAY More Fun & Flavorful with Ben Johnson

On this episode of Transformation Talks, we're joined by Ben Johnson—AKA, the coach that cooks, and the creator of the FlavorCoach app. Ben helps food lovers lose weight without starvation tactics or sacrificing flavor.

We chatted about how to lose weight without eating stereotypical bodybuilder meals, how to branch out in the kitchen and enjoy your meals more—even if you don't consider yourself much of a cook—how to navigate restaurants while you're dieting, and much, much more.

You can connect with Ben on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/thecoachthatcooks/

Check out FlavorCoach here: https://flavorcoach.ai/

Let me know any thoughts or questions you have on the episode here: mail@samforget.com

For more support and accountability, apply for 1:1 coaching here: https://samforget.com/coaching/

Or get started for FREE with my one-stop nutrition guide: https://freenutritionguide.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome back to another episode of Transformation Talks. I am your host, Sam 4J, and today we'll be joined by Ben Johnson, aka the coach that cooks and the creator of the Flavor Coach app. Ben helps food lovers lose weight without starvation tactics or sacrificing flavor. Ben, I appreciate you being here, brother. Dude, it's my pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

It's exciting to catch up and it's, you know, it's it's fun to chat.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yes, absolutely. Speaking of, let's dive right in. Speaking of starvation tactics and sacrificing flavor, I was curious about, I don't think we've ever ever actually talked about this. When you first got into fitness, did you temporarily go down like the classic meathead rabbit hole of I need to eat plain chicken and rice and then you branch back out?

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Like what were your early days of that like? For sure. No, that's uh that's a great question because that's exactly what it was. And so uh I've always been someone who loves food. Uh I can remember as like a little kid, my mom called me like the pear monster because I would just like crush pears and and always enjoyed food and have lots of great memories attached to food. But then when I got into, oh, I want to be fit, I just went down the rabbit hole. And uh for better or worse, I'm someone that like when I decide I'm gonna do a thing, I'll just flip the switch. I'll be really on track, really dedicated to the goals, whatever. And that that is great to a point, but it was getting to the point, and it took me a while to realize it, that I was just like not enjoying food anymore. It was like, oh, I don't need that. And it, I don't think it ever got in like a precarious place in terms of my relationship with food, but it was I sacrificed a lot of what could have otherwise been great experiences of life just for the sake of like having a six-pack in college. And that didn't, uh that didn't necessarily help in the long run. I had to basically learn how to be myself again in the post diet down like crazy phase, which was fine and I was able to do it, but it's so challenging for so many people. And I mean, what's funny too is I I was just as lean when I was eating good food too. And and in some ways it made being on track easier and all that. And I was like, oh no, there's there's something here. There's a thread worth tugging on.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, it's it's funny. I I mean, I am not as well versed in food as you are. I do not consider myself particularly skilled in the kitchen. I'm adequate, but I did temporarily, same as you, have this little period of like, this must have been like mid to late high school where I'm learning more about nutrition. And I came up with my first diet for myself, which involved 12 egg white omelets that had 12 egg whites, a little bit of low-fat shredded cheese. I think specifically it was 14 grams. So it was half a serving, and just a bunch of vegetables. And it was this watery, just super shitty thing. And then I would just eat a pound, excuse me, a pound of lean ground beef by itself with salt and pepper. And I'm like, this is this is what it takes, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Right. Well, and especially like, I don't know, I was a college kid at the time too. So like uh budget-friendly, low-calorie meals. So like a lot of stuff looked like exactly what you're describing, and it was fine, but it was by no means good. And like as a college kid, I was able to crush it, but yeah, I was uh, you know, taking like Tupperwares into class in the evening and eating all my uh very plain steamed, like steamed veggies, the mix of like broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower. And it's just like it was fine and effective because calorie balance was on track and all of that, but I could have been just as effective eating all sorts of different things. And so that the, you know, as pendulum's swing, I went to an extreme that way and was able to course correct back to what I would call more eating like a normal human. Uh, and it made it made long-term fitness easier because nobody can eat like that for the rest of forever. That's just not, it's not realistic in the food environment that we live in today.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yeah, definitely not. I know what else you mentioned uh that prompts another uh example that comes to mind is how food got to the point where it wasn't an enjoyment thing for you. It was purely, you know, fuel. How's this going to impact my body composition? And I don't know if you've ever seen the clip of uh Jay Cutler, the bodybuilder, talking about exactly that. He's like, I don't eat for fun, I don't eat for pleasure. This is purely utility. And, you know, my takeaway from that is well, unless we plan on trying to be the next Jay Cutler, we probably don't need to take things that far. We reduce food. You always hear that like food is fuel, and it is, but it's not just that, which I know you're super big on.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah, well, so much more than that. And I think that's the big thing. Like, I like food because it tastes good, but I love food because of what it is beyond just like how it tastes. And what's cool, obviously, you travel plenty. You're down in Argentina right now. I actually was sipping my mate this morning in prep uh in solidarity. Um, but food is I I think of it as like the universal connector. It transcends like borders and languages, and like it is a way to connect with people that is just fundamentally different than anything else on earth because everyone eats, everyone has either family recipes or cultural recipes that are significant and important to them. Like that's what makes food great, because it brings us all together in a way that cannot be done. And it doesn't matter like what someone's individual beliefs are or what language they speak. It is a universal connector. And that's what gets me like fired up about food. I'm like halfway to chills just saying it because like that's what connects us as humans in a way that is different. And like, yes, it tastes good and that's cool, but like we connect with old friends over lunch, we go on first dates to dinner, we get together with family and it's a pot luck. Like these are the things that are always there. Food is the thing that is always there when we are connecting with other people, and like that's what food is. Like, yes, it is fuel too, but it is also so much more than that. And when we reduce it down to just fuel, it we miss out on a lot of life.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah, I mean, I think back to just some of the best travel experiences I've ever had. To your point, I bounced around at least a little bit. And yes, so many of them are attached to food. Like my first trip out of the country, as we've talked about, was to Peru. And when I think about the most fun moments, or funnest, I'm not actually sure which one, that I had on that trip. It was eating excuse me, eating piranha, uh, piranha. I'm like combining both the English and Spanish versions, and I sound like an ass piranha. No way. Um like having uh piranha straight out of the Amazon, or like I wish I could remember the name of it. It was like a specific juice, it was like a dark, almost grape type um chicha morata. I'm gonna say purple, like yes, yes, yeah, yes. It's a classic Peruvian thing. It's made with purple corn, actually, interestingly enough. So that was the first time I'd ever had that. And again, when I think of my time in the Amazon, yes, I think about say all the animals that I saw and the hikes that I did. Sure. But I also think about having that drink that you just mentioned. I think about having the piranha straight out of the Amazon. Like what a wild thing. Like so many of my favorite, favorite travel experiences or just even social experiences, they're tied to some sort of unique food experience as well. Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Well, because it's so it's distinct, it's memorable. And then also, and I don't know the brain science well enough, but like our olfactory senses are better at triggering memories than other things. That's why certain set smells will take you back to a thing. And that's the cool thing. Like, I mean, uh, it's it's almost silly because it's an animated movie, but like Ratatouille does a great job of showing it. The food critic has a bite and he's taken back to childhood in an instant. And that's what's cool. So, like, it sounds like you've maybe never had chicha morada since that moment in Peru. And if you were to have it, it would take you back there instantly, which is like what a cool thing that food can do. Is like, yeah, obviously it's going to be tricky to get random piranha straight out of the Amazon most places, but chicha morada is something that's relatively easy to find if you look, and it's like it's delicious, it's unique, it's different. And that's just like it would instantly transport you to the moment where you're there having chicha morada, or even like Inca Cola, which I imagine you maybe tried while you were there. I would, I would hope you did at least. The it's like golden soda that they have in Peru. It tastes a lot like juicy fruit, actually, which is unique. But but yeah, just like so many things. And the second you have it, it takes you back to a moment, be it childhood or travels or memories, and it it solidifies the memories in a way that is extra fun or easy to recall.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Definitely. All right, let's go down this rabbit hole a little bit more. What are your some of your favorite um travel slash slash social experiences that are tied to food? Like what comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So uh it's funny. The very first thing that comes to mind is, and it's uh it's not like uh distant travels, but it was in New York, and it's it's a bummer because the uh the place stopped existing before I moved to New York, um, which was uh, you know, rough timing. But there was it was a a speakeasy underneath uh pastry shop in basically just down the street from the Flatiron in Manhattan, and they did a seven-course dessert tasting menu that I saw a random video for on the internet. Um, and I was going to visit New York. My girlfriend at the time lived there. Uh, it was when I was in Boston, but I would travel down often because not that far. Um, and so we planned on going and we we went and it was awesome. It's you know, seven courses of just dessert, which was bonkers. Um, and it's all this like high-end stuff, like crazy stuff. They did this um, it was a chocolate sesame dumpling. It was served in like a tea with these, I think it was like apple blossoms that tasted like apple, but it was just a flower. And so you would like take a bite and then sip the tea. It was, it was a like an incredible like experience as far as like high-end fine dining type of a thing, but also just like delicious and a bunch of desserts. Uh, so we went that day, and then it was like the next morning, and I was literally like taking a shower, washing my hair, thinking of the bite of that chocolate sesame dumpling. And I I mentioned to her, I was just like, Do we go again? And so we went two nights in a row to this tasting menu of pure dessert. And the second time we're there, uh, they were like, wait a second, because it's you know small, like it would see, I think, like 14 people at the bar. It was called the dessert bar. Uh so was it seat like 14 people? So they were like, wait a second, weren't you guys just here? Yeah, yeah. And we had to come back. So we we do that. They, you know, give us, they they roll out the red carpet, they're like pouring champagne for us. I'm like, oh no, I don't drink. So then they make on the fly a non-alcoholic cocktail for me. And in in a lot of ways, that was the impetus of one, going there so often that I became friends with the staff. A lot of them actually moved down to the Miami area when I moved down here. So, like, still friends with them. Um, and then it was also kind of what kicked off my non-alcoholic cocktail kick, which I was on for a very long time, where that was, hey, how can I apply a culinary sensibility to beverages in a way that suits goals? If someone is trying to avoid alcohol for the sake of fitness, but also I just don't drink. So like it it tied in so many different things. I made great friends with people there. So that's one that that leaps out um when it, yeah, at first glance. And I mean, going anywhere, it's always like, well, where are gonna be the interesting things or interesting places to eat that I can't get elsewhere? Um, which is basically any trip I've ever been on, is uh a treasure trove of options for that.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

What are some of the more unique options that come to mind? Like for me, it was having piranha. What about you? Sure. What are some of the weirder?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah, I would say Qui is probably one of the most uh unique things I've had. It didn't strike me as that weird when I had it, except it was served whole on a plate of rice. So that was kind of trippy. And for those who don't know, Qui is a traditional, it was an Ecuadorian family that made it for me. Uh, but it's a traditional dish and it's basically guinea pig. Mind you, it's guinea pigs, not from like the pet store, but it's guinea pig raised for the sake of being food. And so that was that was really unique. I've had like antelope shank at random places, and it's just like if I'm at even a normal-looking restaurant and they have something unique on the menu, I call it a compulsion. It's like, oh, I have to try what that is. So I open a menu, I see antelope shank. I'm like, all right, I'm getting antelope shank because I've never eaten that. Um, but yeah, it's those are the sorts of things that come to mind. I would say Qui, at least for like the United States sensibilities, Qui is probably one of the more unique. And when I have friends or people I know that go to Ecuador, I often say, hey, you should do it, because it can be delicious, uh, but a lot of people get uh a little weirded out. And there's you know the crickets and the ants and the little things like that, but that doesn't feel that crazy. Uh Qui feels a little bit more um, I guess, Q. And so people are more attached to it.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yes. It and that included me. Again, that first trip when I went to Peru, I did try that for the first time. And yeah, it was just that mental hurdle of yeah, it's just so different for us as people from the US. Um, but uh I mean it was it was fine. Again, it was like uh for the most part, I'm like you, where if I sit down and I see something that I really have no clue what it is, or I've never had it, I'm just like, all right, I don't need to look at anything else. Let me try that. Um, have something a little bit different. And that's how I had um it was like beef tongue. And this is actually Miami, like beef tongue and then grasshopper on tacos in Miami. And I don't think I would include them in heavy rotation, but the same thing. Like I sat down, I'm like, all right, let's try it.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

May as well try it out. Yeah. I it was a taco truck in Newark, New Jersey that I had, I think it was beef tongue for the first time, uh, or at least that's the the most prominent memory I have. I grew up in Southern California, so I wouldn't be surprised if I had beef tongue some other time. Um, but no recollection of it. It was a random taco truck in Newark, New Jersey, where I was like, well, I'm gonna get some beef tongue tacos. And, you know, just the experience of trying new things is always fun. There's a whole world of flavors out there, and like uh we have a relatively narrow view being from the United States, and it's just like nothing wrong with the food we eat. Or I guess it depends who you talk to, but like nothing wrong with the food that we eat from a culinary perspective, but there's just so much out there that is so different and so interesting and tasty for that matter.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, that's so true. How our upbringing culture forms our perspectives on like what's what's quote unquote normal to eat, you know, the types of seasonings or spices that we'd look at, and you know, just the things that are uh normal for some of us would just be so unique and rare for other people. I mean, another um I'll keep us moving in a second, but another recent example that comes to mind is trying deer for the first time in Patagonia. Sure. Um, I was down in uh Batty Loche and I'm like, what the hell is this? And I'm doing my little translation thing. I'm like, is that if that's typical for the area, sure, I'll give it a shot. Which is growing up in New England with deer in my backyard, it never crossed my mind that this was like cuisine. Um so I'm gonna pull us back again to your earlier days. You said you've always been like a foodie, you've always been super passionate about this stuff. But when and how did you develop the skills that you have now? Like I see some of the things that you make now, and they're just like well beyond what I would ever think of. So, just in terms of um different cooking styles, the way that you like piece uh, you know, seasonings and certain flavors together, things that just sound so great, things that wouldn't cross my mind. So, how did you go about refining your own knowledge and skills? Because I'd imagine it's really open doors for you, not just from a food enjoyment perspective, but then the fitness side of things as well, being able to kind of make adjustments based on this huge toolbox that you have.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah. Well, it's something that's become more clear to me uh recently is that, and sometimes it's because I'm like, how is it this hard to hit your numbers? Come on. If someone's like, oh, I'm not much of a meat eater and getting 100 grams of protein feels challenging. I'm like, I literally don't understand. We can make it taste good. Let's, but I like the more and more I coach people, the more my real more and more I realize that this culinary skill set is like a secret weapon because it's like never hard for me to hit numbers and make things that taste good. And and like you're saying, they're a little bit beyond just like the average home chef sometimes or the home cook sometimes. Um, and I think the big thing, we have to go like way back. So um I grew up doing a lot of music. I played bass, and I was always more uh I gravitated more towards jazz rather than classical. And so, like in terms of creative expression, all growing up, I was in a band. We were like trying to make it. Basically, everyone from that band, myself included, has done something with music on a somewhat professional level. Some more than others. Like one buddy does production currently, that's what he does for a living. Another one is playing in the pit on Broadway musicals. Um, I uh, thanks to what my dad does for work, was sort of involved in the music industry for a bit. Uh, but basically I grew up playing jazz. And the reason I gravitated towards jazz rather than like orchestral music on bass was that one allowed me to improvise and play around. And like, yes, I understand the concepts here and I can play around within them. And as time went on, uh life got busier. It was harder and harder to like make time for that as creative expression for me. And what it essentially turned into was food as the creative expression. And the cooking side of things versus the baking side of things uh pulled me in in the same way that jazz pulled me in. So it gave me the freedom and flexibility to experiment, to play, to improvise. And then over, you know, ever since I became an adult and started cooking for myself regularly, just reps and reps and reps. I also enjoy, you know, food, content, or, you know, back in the day, food network and things along those lines. So it's like uh, you know, consuming plenty of content to give random ideas, and I have a weirdly good memory for things that I want to remember. So it's just like, ooh, I'm gonna glom onto that random thing they said in that episode. And then that next time that I'm like, ooh, what if I put these things together? That was good, that wasn't, and it's refining that over time to get to the point where it's like, oh, I'm actually half decent at this, as with any skill set, right? But it was it was that creative expression that felt so familiar and similar to what I grew up doing that I think is why I I really took to it the way that I did. Because like, I don't know, most adults cook for themselves at some point, but to have the interest in developing a skill set was different. But it was like, oh, this is this is how I can be creative in adult life that doesn't require me to, you know, lug around my big upright base or you know, make space in a small apartment for my you know, electric base and amp and whatever. It was just like, oh, I can I can channel the same energy towards this thing that I already enjoy, but it was developing a skill set, you know, day after day, week after week, month after month. And before long, it was like, oh, I'm I'm half decent at this thing, which is a cool, a cool process to see overall. But I would say it stemmed from just the creative expression and something similar to jazz.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Yeah, I like how you emphasize the skill component of it as well, because I think a lot of people, probably myself included in the past, think either I can cook or I can't, like it's just cut and dry. And I would I to again, my my cooking skills are still pretty basic, but I would say that it's almost similar to strength training. As you get less bad at something, you tend to enjoy it a bit more. Uh I see I see that all the time, and I know you have as well people in the gym who initially don't love strength training. As they develop more skill with the movements, lifting is a skill, as they develop more skill with the movements, it starts to become something they look forward to because it's more positive association, more positive reps, no pun intended, that they're getting in. And, you know, definitely it seems like that's the case with cooking as well. Of like, I know so many people who put them, so many clients I've worked with who put themselves in a box of like, I'm just I'm terrible in the kitchen. And it's such like a they don't feel they're very skilled, it's not an enjoyable experience. Well, it's it's funny. I had another buddy on during season one of this show. Uh he's from Jamaica. He he loves um cooking like his cultural uh dishes. He he just loves cooking in general, and he emphasized that as well of like when you spend a little bit of time developing the skill of cooking, it actually becomes enjoyable. Most people dread it because they've never developed skill the way that you're describing, where now you're able to look at what's in your kitchen and go, ooh, what can I do with this? Yeah. Not necessarily in an overly time-consuming and complex way. Again, because of the skill you developed.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

I think that's the thing that is that stands out to me at least, is the reason why people struggle to develop that skill is, you know, there's like that old saying of if you teach a man to fish, he eats for life. But if you only give a man a fish, he eats for a day. And I think recipes are just doling out fishes. So it's just like, here's how to make this one thing. You might go buy that random spice at the store, but you have no idea why it's being used, what it's being used for, what it tastes like, what else it goes well with. So you are relatively limited. So there's, I'm sure, plenty of people who have like some weird like garum masala in their cabinet that they have never touched except for that one time they made curry because they were feeling adventurous and they found a recipe online. So recipes give make people really good at following instructions, but it makes people feel like a fish out of water when they have to try to do things on their own. And similar to jazz, and similar to strength training for that matter, like there are movement patterns with strength training that are just like this is what bodies do. And there are only so many of those. If we can learn how to master movement, we can do a lot of things underneath that. There are all sorts of different variations, whatever. Similar with jazz, like once you understand how you know scales and core changes work, you can improvise a lot within that framework. And and cooking, I think a better way to teach cooking and to help people with cooking is to empower them to have that confidence of just like, I understand what this tastes like and what that tastes good with, or what I like it with. And so I don't need a recipe to tell me how to use the thing, I can just use the thing. But unfortunately, so much of what the world is is just recipes. And recipes are fine, but they don't teach cooking. They teach how to follow instructions. And when you don't have instructions, people are kind of at a loss as for what to do. Similar to like a meal plan versus having macros. Macros are the framework. A meal plan is just like eat this thing. The second you don't have the plan, you don't know what to do and you feel kind of lost.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah, no, I was I was just thinking of the meal plan example as well, where oftentimes I think that's what I think. I know that that's what people think that they want, that they would benefit the most from. And there can be upside. But like you also mentioned, the second you can't follow that to a T, the second you have to deviate and think outside of that, all of a sudden it can feel much more challenging. Um, Ben, somebody who's listening to this, who's like, okay, fine, I'm gonna stop telling myself that I'm terrible in the kitchen. Let's start working on these skills. What would you tell a new client who does currently not feel that great about their skills in the kitchen, they don't have a very positive relationship with just making meals, how would you get them started? What would you suggest for them?

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Uh well, I honestly, uh this is gonna be more just like big picture how to approach goals in general, is if you're trying to get good at a thing, you want to basically reverse engineer that into simpler steps. Because if it's like uh, you know, Gordon Ramsay's all famous on the internet, um, reviewing people's beef wellingtons, but it's a very complex thing, lots of steps. I mean, it could simply be okay, how can you go about trying to make zucchini taste better for dinner tomorrow and do it in a way that doesn't take a ton of time, a ton of effort, whatever. But it's like, you know, make it more manageable along the way because and I I actually I think this happens a lot. I don't know if it actually happens as much as I think it happens, but like you're saying, I post a thing, it looks really complex. And it's like, well, yes, because I've been doing this for a while and I I have fun doing that. I understand the the mother of three who's also working is not gonna have as much fun making a pan sauce after roasting the chuck to make this like wonderfully, beautifully presented plate. Yeah, I get that. That's fun for me. That's how I de-stress at the end of the day or whatever. Um, but it's like, well, how can you make something that maybe the whole family likes that keeps it simple? Maybe it's trying a new seasoning, trying a new component, or thinking, like, oh, there's that thing that I know I like, I wonder what I could do with that. And then, you know, the the internet is an amazing resource, but instead of like recipes for eggplant, it's just like, all right, what are some things that can be done with eggplant? And then maybe one will stand out, maybe one will sound good, and then you can figure out because it's it's techniques and concepts more than it's step-by-step instructions. And if you understand how an ingredient functions, just play around with it. And that might mean some trial and error, and it might mean you buy an eggplant and you use it and you're underwhelmed, that's okay too, because all of that is leading toward the progression. And also, I uh I I will say I think uh just cooking skills in general, like knife skills and just like basic uh fundamentals of cooking well are incredibly underrated. Because if cooking feels like a chore, well, half the time it's because yes, it takes however long to chop an onion. You don't want to chop an onion. But if you get good at the process of chopping an onion, well, then it's nothing. It's like, oh yes, I'll just do that quick and then move on. And it it so it developing the skill set makes things taste better, obviously, but it also helps things become more efficient. And so you're not just stuck doing something for an incredible amount of time because not everyone wants to do that. I feel like that was a circuitous path, but somewhat an answer. Reverse engineer it, focus on the simple next steps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, no, no, no, for sure. Uh speaking of making things easier, okay, we have the skill development. We're tactically now, you know, say uh uh cutting up an onion doesn't feel like, oh, I have to like it's this big next step. What are some general, you know, whether we call it meal prep, ingredient prep, what are some general pieces of advice that you give somebody who's like, all right, I want some variety, but I don't want to live in the kitchen? Like, what are some things that you would suggest to your busiest clients who kind of want to operate in the middle? I I want to have more than a, you know, an egg white omelet or, you know, just you know, chicken, playing chicken nine days in a row, but I'm also not, you know, quite as into this as you. What are some ways that people can keep things simple, save time? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Uh, so in that case, I would say like don't stress techniques, uh, or don't sweat the technique for those who are inclined to certain types of music. Um, but like don't stress techniques, more focus on stocking your pantry with options. Because if you're you could be making the the you know, classic Jim Bro chicken, broccoli, and rice, but you can make that taste a lot of different ways by using, oh, I'm gonna use some chili powder and a squeeze of lime on the chicken this time. And now we got some chili lime chicken that's gonna taste completely different than if you were to do, you know, some sort of barbecue rub on the chicken or even barbecue sauce or hot sauce. Like there, there are all these different angles and directions. You can take the same exact foods by simply having a well-stocked pantry. And so even something like smoked paprika is gonna make your chicken taste fundamentally different. Understanding how to add this, that, or the other, or this is a it's I've been on a kick with it recently because it's basically becoming summertime, even though here in Florida it's been summer. But it's you know, basically summertime. And for me, I feel like a little bit of ground cumin on veggies makes it taste more summery. Not that that's like a I feel like that description makes sense, but it's just like it tastes more summery that way. So I've been putting cumin on more veggies lately because it's just like, oh yes, it feels it feels light, it feels fragrant, and that that is delicious. And so I would say seasonings and spices are your friend there because all that takes is a couple of shakes, and then you're still, you know, putting something in the air fryer and it's quick and it's simple, but it tastes different than it did yesterday. And even if you're eating the same thing over and over, which obviously it's a thing in fitness, but like we as humans, we're creatures of habit. Most of us eat the same things over and over because we have what we like or whatever's available close by or whatever's cheap, whatever's BOGO at the grocery store. It's just like, yeah, you you can eat the same things, but do not make them taste like the same thing because that's where I think, you know, diet fatigue sets in, where it's just like, oh, I'm really tired of eating broccoli. And it's like, yes, of course you are, because you steam it in the bag and maybe put salt on it. There are different things that can be done to make broccoli taste delicious. Yeah, I'm a big salt on everything, guys. It's just well, sure. I mean, salt should be on everything, but a little bit more. And and uh uh a caveat to the pantry too is I think something, especially for home cooks, that is incredibly underrated is vinegar or acid of any kind. So that could be lime juice, that could be lemon juice, uh, but all sorts of different vinegars, um, it makes a huge difference. Oftentimes that like zhuj that people are noticing in more restaurant quality dishes is the you know, introduction of some sort of acid element. It's one of the main like five flavors that we can taste, and it will it lifts food in a meaningful way. So even just taking the salt on the broccoli, and I don't even care if you're getting fancy with it, like a little rice vinegar over the top of that, just as a drizzle, it will taste, I mean, different. I guess a matter of flavor perspectives, I think it tastes better. Um, but it's it brightens the food, it gives it more pop, it makes it more zingy in a way that is it makes a big difference. Like dress your vegetables. You don't need to dress them with some like mayonnaise-based dressing, but like dress them with something because they will taste better. And it it ties in with just this more uh big picture thinking that I have. Like people talk about hyperpalatable foods all the time. And obviously, if we're defining hyperpalatable foods as like the ultra-processed stuff that keeps us wanting to eat more, that's really like devoid of nutrition and calorically dense, that makes fitness harder because it's easy to just keep eating that stuff. But my thought process is that if we can make healthy foods more hyperpalatable, then we're going back for seconds with lean protein and veggies, and that's what we're having more of. And when we're full on lean proteins and veggies, you know, the twinkie is going to be less interesting. And it's like, if we can learn to make healthy foods more hyperpalatable, I think we change public health in a meaningful way. Uh, the challenges of hyperpalatable foods lessen. And obviously it's perfectly reasonable to limit intake of hyperpalatable foods, but I don't see anyone else talking about the flip side of it of like, yes, let's use the same like uh, you know, food science of making things taste good on things that we should be eating more of for the sake of nutrition, for the sake of health, for the sake of longevity. And so I call it my hyperpalatable health hypothesis because I like alliterations. Um, but I do think that that's going to have a bigger impact on public health than just trying to avoid the Twinkie, because we live in a world of Twinkies.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Sure. And I think it's so much more enjoyable just hearing you talk about that. If I woke up tomorrow and my plan was not just to, okay, how do I avoid X, Y, and Z, but all right, here are the things that I'm quote unquote supposed to eat. How can I make these more enjoyable? So I don't feel like I'm just wolfing something down or getting through the meal. So I even if, you know, the the net result, yeah, okay, it's all mostly the same of like more of this stuff and less of the other. I think it's, yeah, to your point, way more enjoyable to focus on the other side of the equation. Well, how can I have more of this stuff? And like you also mentioned, when you do have more of that, the Twinkies, the whatever, they they just lose their appeal. Um, they really do. And all without having to just outright ban them. You focus more on let me bring up the intake of this stuff, let me see how I feel after. Most of the time, you're like, yeah, I'm good, I'm satisfied.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, I I so I call it my full flavor fat loss formula. Again, alliterations. Uh, but if this is transformation talks, so we're we're an alliterative group here. We are. But but basically the way I yeah, like I set it up as an actual math formula as someone who hasn't taken math since high school, but that's okay. But it's basically like, you know, calorie deficit plus protein. Um, but then I I like multiplied by satiety and satisfaction, because I think those are the things that are often missing in how people approach dieting and nutrition in this day and age, where it's like I need to eat less and move more, because that's the general advice, which is sound but limited. And so if we focus on satiety, so people are feeling full more often, fuller between their meals, all of that sort of jazz, then they're gonna be less tempted by the Twinkie. Or if they want a Twinkie, they can have a Twinkie and they can maybe have one Twinkie and be like, that was delicious, I'm done. Not half a box of Twinkies, right? So if there's satiety there, that's gonna help just in a practical sense, food volume, you are more full more often. And then the satisfaction sense of like, if you are eating foods that you find incredibly satisfying, where it's just like that is uh, I do like a I make a panicotta, but I use yogurt instead of cream. And it's just like a plated dessert. It eats like dessert. I've cooked it for large groups, and then they're just like, this was a delicious dessert. It also happens to be a macro-friendly dessert, not necessarily with scoops of protein powder in it because that's an abomination to dessert, but it is this is a macro-friendly dessert that eats like a dessert, and that is satisfying in the way dessert is. So the temptation of, you know, some other dessert or some other snack or a Snickers 30 minutes after dinner is way less because the satiety is there from high volume foods, but the satisfaction's there from stuff that is actually delicious rather than diet food. Oh, I almost lost my uh I'm talking so much with my hands, the foam almost felt, but good save.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah. Okay, so speaking of macro friendly recipes, and you started to joke about adding protein to everything is probably a no-go. I'd love your thoughts on that general trend that you know, people take absolutely anything and everything and just modify the shit out of it. Obviously, the classic thing is adding protein powder to everything, but where do you think the right balance is with modifying things to some degree to make it more macro friendly, but not just getting so far from what the recipe is supposed, or the the food or the dish is supposed to be?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, the intent, right? Yeah, and that's the thing is I've seen like these termisou recipes that are like soaking a rice cake in espresso or whatever coffee they're using, and then putting Greek yogurt and protein powder and layering that. And like, does that taste sweet? And is that maybe a treat that scratches the right itch when you're like, you know, doing physique prep? Sure. Like I have nothing against having those things or like a protein pancake. All of that is fine. There's a time and a place for it. But I think the problem with it comes from that is then what people think they have to do to hit protein. And I wish uh, I wish chicken had the same PR guy as like collagen peptides, because people are like, I'm I'm getting my collagen peptides, I'm trying to get my protein in. And I'm like, well, did you try eating protein? And I actually think we had a back and forth about this the other day of just like the more culinary use of the word protein versus the fitness use of the word protein. Because it's like the culinary perspective is these are the main the star of the show on the plate. And that's usually, you know, meat or fish or poultry. It's stuff that is actually high in protein. Whereas now we've got like protein ranch. I think you had a post the other day. I saw protein seasoning that like it's I don't need, I don't even know. I think it's like nutritional yeast is in it, so it's got a little bit of protein. I almost want to start like a counter to that and make like protein seasoning, where it's like these are the seasonings to put on your actual proteins because it makes people look in the wrong place for getting added protein. Like I totally understand how hitting protein, especially if you're new to things like tracking and macros and goals, it can be hard. It can be a big shift and a big change. But I think the problem is a lot of these recipes, this proteinification of foods, it makes it so that people are looking in the wrong place. And if you're short on protein, I guarantee you the place to look is not dessert. The place to look is like, well, how can you maybe have more of the proteins that matter at breakfast, lunch, or dinner so that you're not, oh, I'm 40 grams short and it's time for a little treat. And I guess I'm just gonna be having Greek yogurt and protein powder, and I'm gonna mix that up with some cinnamon or whatever, and nothing against cinnamon, but it's just like that's that's gonna go a long way for people. I'm just gonna move this out of the way because apparently gravity is working against me. Um, but I think that's the big thing in my mind with the proteinification of things. It's fine, but it means that the average person, Nancy, who signed up for coaching and doesn't know how to hit protein, is now getting protein ranch, collagen peptides, and then making protein pancakes for dessert and thinking this is gonna do it. And it's like, well, we can just have breakfast, lunch, and dinner be more conducive to goals and and you'll be better off for it. And then you can just have a normal dessert or a normal treat or something sweet that isn't trying to be protein because a protein cookie doesn't taste that good. And fitness people like to pretend that it does, but it it it doesn't. It doesn't, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah. That's um uh our mutual friend Mike Dole. I've seen him post before when clients would say, Hey, I need a uh a new high protein snack. He's like, have another chicken breast. Like, stop looking. I like how you said people are looking, understandably, looking in the wrong places. It's okay, I'm in the store, I'm scanning for where it says the word protein. But as that that conversation that you mentioned with us, we talked about how the best sources of protein often there's no mention of it. You know, it's just there. It's you know, it's the stake, it's just in the butcher department. Yeah. Yeah, it's just right there. And then I also like how you mentioned how you could get your protein from actual sources of protein, and then you're on like numerical offense where now you're more likely to have room for having an actual cookie that's 250 or 350 calories. Because if you have a lean source of protein at four calories per gram of protein, and you're having a chicken breast, maybe it's a hundred-something calories, and you've already hit your protein goal for that specific meal. You got 30-something grams of protein, and then you can have the thing rather than trying to like Frankenstein this, okay, I want that, but I'm also supposed to get protein. I am generally a fan of keeping them relatively separate. Slight modification, sure. If it's sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Like, and there are, I would lean more towards technique to help with that of like, okay, but chicken breast, great lean protein, how to make chicken breast taste good is is the the trick. It's not how to sneak chicken breast into something where you don't expect it. Um I mean, there are little hacks, like I think, um, I think bone broth is actually underrated in lots of use cases. Like I made a barbecue sauce the other day, and the base of it was bone broth that I cooked down to the point that it was like syrup, and then I made it taste like barbecue sauce. And that I mean, a lot of that is just because I had bones and I made bone broth. Um, not necessarily for the the lovely macro math of it, but it was like several cups of bone broth reduced down to this barbecue sauce that, you know, I put all over uh shredded pork, I think it was. I'm trying to remember, but it was delicious. It was like pulled pork sandwiches. But the barbecue sauce was predominantly protein instead of predominantly carbohydrate because of technique. Now, I'm not saying everyone needs to do exactly that, but there are techniques and things from a culinary perspective that can help, you know, even if it's just like cooking your rice with some bone broth. That's going to put a little bit of protein in your rice. If you're struggling to get protein, you'll be better off doing things like that, making chicken breast taste good, and then not worrying about the cookie that you might want to have after dinner because, you know, talking about satisfaction, few things are less satisfying than a protein powder treat that's supposed to be a cookie. And it's really just like, you know, it's a it's a lame simulation of a cookie that often leaves you just wanting an actual cookie that much more. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

And then you yeah, you end up having it, and then you got a little extra protein, but far more calories. Whereas if you just kept them separate satisfaction levels higher.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

And I do like how you're easier said than done, but it it works out nicely, at least in my experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Yeah, for sure. Uh one of the suggestions that you had given for people who are trying to make this a bit easier on themselves is making sure your pantry is well stocked for being able to kind of piece stuff together. And I think that's actually a perfect segue to the app that you've been working on and like the very problem that it solves and how it can help people. So uh yeah, tell us a bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

So the the big thing, obviously, I've been coaching for a while. As I coached more, I got more and more interested in helping people with the food side of things because I noticed that that was like my secret weapon in my own kitchen. Like, yeah, I can hit numbers no problem because I know how to make all the things that help me hit my numbers taste good. And I was like, oh, I should help people with that. So I started doing that and it it sort of presented in multiple ways. Um, so I I basically, it's funny. I've never loved writing programs for people. It was never my favorite thing. I could do it, I'm qualified to do it, but I didn't love it. And especially most of the time, general uh like fat loss and fitness doesn't need super specific programs. So I often felt like I was just getting really repetitive and like the creative in me was like, this is not interesting or engaging for me just on the coaching end. It could still be effective. Um, but I shifted more towards what I call program management. So it's like, hey, let's get some structure, let's make sure you're checking the right boxes. I can help you tweak those boxes if needed. But like in a lot of ways, if your goal is fat loss and you're going in strength training, I kind of don't care how many sets and reps you're doing. As long as you're being consistent, you're training, your progress, like there's progress happening. I can help fine-tune things if we need to. If you're trying to do X, we can optimize with Y, whatever. Um, but as I did less and less of like writing full programs, I did more and more of hands-on culinary help in terms of coaching. Like, what are the foods that you enjoy? Here's how we can make those taste good. Um, so that that became part of my normal one-on-one coaching. I started doing like these one-on-one like VIP things where I would literally fly out basically, like hands-on in kitchen, treat it like cooking classes and personal training and like all of the things all at once in person. And those were like the coolest things ever. So I started trying to like implement more of that into my normal, just virtual one-on-one coaching. And what I found in doing all of that, like this is just to set a stage for like where the app idea came from, in doing all of that, it was awesome. But there's only one of me. My phone is only available so often. And working online, as you know, people can be all over. Like I'm working with someone that is in Singapore right now. If he had an in the moment question about food, I am unavailable most of the time that he's awake. And similarly, someone on the West Coast was in the middle of cooking dinner and had a question, and I was asleep already. So I saw it the next morning. I was like, oh, yes, hopefully that balsamic glaze you were trying to make worked out, but it's too late now. So I was thinking, how can I have my, you know, overlap of food and fitness knowledge available more often? And so I started tugging at that thread, and uh the the it it led to a lot. So so what started as I wonder how my clients could have something that helps them in the moments that I'm less available that is based on my, you know, I've got the resources I have and that sort of jazz. So basically it started as a custom Chat GPT model, but then you would need the premium version of ChatGPT to access it. And some people I was working with had it, some people didn't. And so I just it was a random weekend. I basically asked ChatGPT, hey, how could I make this in a way that people don't need the premium version of ChatGPT and tug on that thread for a day and before long there's a working app that's custom made from scratch. So it's still a bonkers concept, but effectively what it is is putting my nutrition and food culinary knowledge at someone's fingertips. Uh I talked about like putting a private chef in your pocket because that's essentially what it is. It's being able to ask me a question, or at least ask my AI trained on all of the me things that I have at my disposal, asking questions. So it could be in the moment, it could be that random spice in the back of your cupboard where it's like, I don't even know what to do with this. How can I use this to make my broccoli taste better? Or how can I cook eggplant if you've never cooked eggplant before? What are the techniques that help? And it's uh so it's trained up on me and my approach. So it it can give recipes, of course, but it is intended to help teach along the way. And there are things like, you know, uh, you can simply just say what you've got on hand and it'll help you whip together dinner for those that track and have macros and things like that. It you just like, oh, I'm looking for this many calories, that many grams of protein. Here's what I have on hand, here's what I like and don't like, and it'll whip up. I mean, it can do food lists, it can do, you know, meal ideas, just like get you pointed in a direction, it can do full recipes. And then also uh kind of a a nod to my Instagram videos, those breakdowns. Um, it can basically you upload a photo, it'll analyze the photo and be like, here's where it can improve, and then here's a full recipe for that improvement. So kind of like those breakdown videos that I've done on Instagram. So yeah, it's it's a really cool thing. Um, and it it's funny because it just started as tugging on the thread of like, I wonder how I could help the people I'm coaching that much more. And then it is becomes something that's like, oh, wait, this could help a lot of people in a lot of places do the exact stuff that we're talking about and apply knowledge that they haven't necessarily knowledge and skills for that matter, they haven't necessarily developed in a way where it's just like I am being led along the way towards more, you know, fitness-friendly, a more fitness-friendly food life, a more full flavor fitness life, and doing so in a way where you're almost learning to cook by accident as you go, because it's the the techniques and the concepts are there and you're getting not just the what, but also like the why along with the how. Um, and I think I think it's been incredibly powerful so far. It's been mostly available to people that I'm coaching. Um, but it's it's uh it's opening up more to the public now, which is exciting for me because I hope I can help more people in more places. And obviously, in person fly out and cook with you hands-on in in your kitchen is great, but uh limiting on multiple levels, including the amount of travel that I am capable of doing any given you know month or year. So this is a way to to pipe me into people's kitchens and put you know reasonable, sensible fitness advice with food in mind at people's fingertips.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

I like that a lot because it addresses many of the common hurdles that we talked about earlier in that uh earlier in the episode. Anything from, okay, I have these things in my fridge, what could I possibly piece together with that? Maybe it's the all right, I prepped a bunch of chicken for the week, but I don't want to do the same version of just salt every single day. Yeah. How can I make this taste better? Uh, and then the numerical adjustments that you mentioned of, okay, we don't have to totally blow up the intent of whatever I'm trying to eat, but like, is there, you know, just the classic, can I swap this for Greek yogurt and like not really notice a difference, bring the fat down, get the protein up a little bit? So it sounds like it addresses each one of those hurdles that could prevent somebody from, I would say, either just being motivated to cook at all, like the moments they're just gonna say, fuck it, I'm gonna order something because I just don't feel like figuring, I don't want to have to think about this. Yeah. And then the numerical issues that people have as well, um, all while learning, uh, which seems to be the request.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Yeah. Well, and the what's for dinner question plagues us all, like myself included, where it's just like, oh my gosh, what uh looking, like what have I got? And and luckily, my mind can operate like an episode of Chopped on Food Network where I see what I've got and they're like, all right, I'm gonna whip together a dish. But most people aren't at that place. And essentially what Flavor Coach does is it it allows people to have my mind at their disposal so that it it's it's even designed to look like texting, though that might get uh a revamp at some point in terms of just like the the aesthetic of it. But it's literally designed to look like texting. It's trained to sound like you're just texting me, because that's essentially what it started off as with clients is like, hey, this isn't me, obviously, but it it should hopefully react, respond, and say things much like I would, um, which was a it was a fun adventure to train that up in that way. But but now it's just a tool that is, it is as if anyone walking into the kitchen can have me standing there next to them via a phone screen, obviously, and can ask questions, can be in the moment, like, oh, uh this just happened, how do I fix it? Or I I did this, now it tastes too salty. How do I fix that? Like in the moment, hands on help with an expert opinion that also has your goals in mind. And I just think it's um going back to what I was saying before, if we learn to make healthy foods more hyperpalatable, I think we change public health. And as much as one-on-one coaching is great, and I've done lots of that, the the level of impact that that can have big picture is limited. It's it's great for those individuals, but relatively limited. This is probably the first time I've had something that feels like a big idea for health and fitness as an industry, whereas like, oh, this could, this could really impact a lot of things. And like it's um it's approach agnostic, I'll say. So, like if someone wants to be keto, cool, it'll help you with that. If someone is, you know, vegetarian or vegan, it'll help with that too. It it can meet you where you're at and help you how you need, uh, which is ultimately what the job of a coach is in general. And this is just a coach that helps you make things delicious and tasty along the way. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

I know exactly what you mean about it, having the ability to impact and reach more people. Because obviously the clients we work with work with 101 get a very heavy dose of us, not on a daily basis, but you know, the people outside of that, and it actually makes me a quick sidebar. It makes me think of my background and personal training was actually traveling training. So I had equipment in my trunk, I was driving to people's houses, and then very quickly was like, Well, I can only drive to to so many houses, you know, on a daily basis, you know, especially when I first started. Anyone who's willing to hire a teenage trainer, I'm like, I I will drive let's go. Yeah, yeah, I got you. Um, and then I was like, okay. And then that's when I started actually offering online coaching again, just to have a bigger impact, a bigger reach. So I can see how that like continues and kind of ramps up of all right, it was something like this. Now I can reach even more people. Um, and I do like how it's trained to sound like you as well. I think that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

I've had multiple people, family members included, be like, it's a little creepy how much it sounds like you. But it's like, all right, well, I mean, I have uh thanks to I guess how I approach writing in general, a lot of my Instagram captions are written out of app before I slap them on the post and hit submit. I have years worth of emails I've sent. So I literally was like, here are Instagram captions, here are like emails I've sent to my email list. I think it was two years worth of both of them. And it maybe wasn't every single caption I ever wrote. Um, but it's just like it it is trained up a lot on how I write. And how I write is very much conversational and similar to how I speak. And and so that uh it very quickly was like, oh, huh, okay. And and where it really started to get wild was like testing things like, all right, I want to make this thing, but I want to make it taste better. How would I do that? And you know, hitting enter, thinking what would I want to say in this situation? It's like, oh, it hit on all the things. Yep, okay, wow, all right. And so it's it's been it's been a cool adventure. Um, and and now it's it's something that's gonna be more public-facing. Um until just recently, there weren't really ways to try it out unless I was giving someone manual access. Um and now it's you know, there are if someone just goes to flavorcoach.ai, um, it there are these like free samples, almost like you're walking through Costco getting to sample something. Um, and these free samples are a chance to get like a feel for what it does before having to, you know, sign up for a trial or anything like that, just like getting a taste. Because what I've what I've seen, at least with the people that I've coached, is the people who use it regularly fall in love with it and they're like, this is an incredibly helpful resource. And then the people who don't obviously don't get the chance to get to that point. So reducing as much friction as possible, making it easy for people to try out is has been kind of the the name of the game recently. And yeah, it's honestly it's exciting because like at scale, and if I and this is really getting ahead of myself, but if it were to get great traction and become something special, which I think it has the potential to do, it's obviously uh, you know, a baby, relatively speaking. But if it becomes something special, I think it's something that can help people with food for the long haul. And we we live in a world where like so much is changing with technology and whatnot, uh, but we're still gonna have to cook for ourselves. And I think that's where I get excited. And like until Elon makes humanoid robots that live in our homes, like you're still doing the cooking. And even if Elon makes humanoid robots that live in our homes, well, imagine if it's you know, flavor coach software built into that so that you can have, you know, fitness-friendly meals cooked for you by the humanoid robot you're paying for. That would be cool too. But like that's that's I mean, it sounds almost crazy, right? But if I think big picture, what I think this is, instead of just like coaching, it is a tool to help people simplify their food lives, and especially people with fitness goals in mind. And it's like that that can become a lot, even if um, you know, technology makes the landscape of both food and fitness different. I feel like there's still potential for this to be helpful for anyone and everyone. And that's that's where I get excited because it's like coaching's great, but I also know a lot of people are going to Chat GPT for workout programs and nutrition advice. And what's I guess uh scary is not the right word, but it's like not that. Half the time someone's like, Oh, I didn't put together this workout plan for me. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not mad at it. I would maybe make a couple of small tweaks, but like, hmm. And you know, same thing, especially when it's something as formulaic as nutrition. It can operate on calculations just like I would for how to think of how to it's you know, jumping off point. Coaching is still coaching, but yeah, it's just it's interesting to think big picture long term, how this is something that can help obviously more people, but also grow into whatever the future holds, which none of us really know right now.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah, yeah, sure. It's almost like it handles the um timeless tactical side of things, like giving you skills and habits that I mean how you deploy those will almost certainly certainly will evolve depending on how you know the landscape of tech and whatnot. But um, again, the the things that will continue to be relevant and helpful no matter how things shift.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Yeah. That's or that's the hope at least, you know, knock knock on some wood and hope things head that direction. But it's been it's been something that's really pulled me in in a way like uh, you know, borderline obsession. I I tend to like working. I enjoy getting after it with whatever, whether it was the the fitness stuff back in the day when I first started focusing on fitness or even work stuff and coaching and marketing and writing and and all of that. But now it's I consistently, if I have time on my hands, I'm either thinking about it or I'm just like literally jumping in and doing stuff in the code. And so it's been an interesting evolution over the last bit, but it's it's like a song stuck in my head, but it's not a song, it's an idea. And it's bringing that idea to life that has been uh you know really pulling me in lately. So it's been exciting to work on and even more exciting to get give more people the chance to try it out and to use it, not just the the raving fans that have been clients of mine.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And of course, I'll I'll um add all the information about this, how people can learn more in the show notes. I do, before I let you go today, I do want to pivot a little bit and ask you about one other thing that I feel confident you hear or people ask you about constantly, which is if I'm somebody who loves food, but I also have weight loss goals, how the hell do I navigate restaurants? You know, obviously to this point, we've talked a lot about in-the-house type cooking, you know, having the reins in a lot of your own meals. But I know something, again, I guarantee you hear it 25,000 times a day. It's like I kind of want to be able to eat whatever. I want to be able to enjoy myself, but also the average, you know, restaurant meal, multiple courses, you could be at 1,500, 2,000 calories. Yeah. What super easy, which quick sidebar, I don't think enough people realize that because most people keep my fitness pal in their pocket every time they leave the house. But yes, it is 1,500 calories, 2,000 calories in a restaurant outing doesn't necessarily mean you had a lot of food in terms of volume. It's very easy to do. So with that said, what would you tell somebody who's like, okay, I want I'm I'm a foodie, I want to enjoy myself, but I also have 1,400 calories a day to work with? What would I do there?

SPEAKER_00 54:59

So a couple of things. I'll get to the actual answer in a second. It's funny you bring that up because you posted something about this. It was like a couple of weeks ago at this point, or maybe even a month ago, but it was like a breakfast spread at a restaurant. You posted a photo, and you happened to post that photo as I was fine-tuning the upload a photo and have flavor coach give you what to do differently. Um, I so I was I was testing that over and over. And so I was just like on social media, saw your story post, took a screenshot. And so that story post of your breakfast was used dozens of times probably on just like, all right, let me see how the output is this time. Okay, cool, we're getting closer. And it, you know, so just kind of a funny thing because you literally talked about it, and little did you know that I had that screenshot and it was used in Flavor Coach multiple times, being like, oh, well, this could be, you know, but it's exactly like what you're describing, where it's easy to have those calories go high. And so, and like like you also said, my fitness pal in the pocket, because it's tedious to plug everything in, I don't want to do it either. I would be a hypocrite if I was telling people to do that. Um, that is uh actually serves as somewhat of an inspiration for Flavor Coach. Cal AI has like that you can scan the food, and AI will go ahead and give you an estimation. But even that, they say it's not that accurate. If you're trying to be dialed in, you don't want to rely on a photo and AI to tell you how many calories or anything because it's really hard to tell what's in the sauce. Even as a person, it's like, well, I don't know what's in that sauce. Probably more fat than you're thinking, if it's at a restaurant, all of that sort of jazz. So the big thing that I would say is separated into like what is the the main goal. If the goal is to go have brunch with friends and have a good time, then optimize for that. And if that means that you're not being super meticulous about tracking, if it means you're not being super dialed in with your goals, that's okay. And like, yeah, you need to be okay with your decision-making process going into that because there's nothing that wrong with going and choosing to enjoy yourself. It's when we have a uh like a distortion between choice and like if you're if you go do that, you come back and you feel bad, you feel guilty, and you're beating yourself up for it, then like, well, I mean, you made the decision. You could have not made that decision. And so it's ultimately it's deciding between what you want now and what you want more later, or maybe you don't want it as much later. And so I think of that as kind of like the lens through which to view these issues because it's a common thing. And it's also a common thing to want to be maybe looser with goals in those situations. But if you're trying to be dialed in, that is a quick path to undermine, you know, potentially days worth of a deficit. And so it's it's the balance of that. Like if you want to go have a great time, that's fine, but you also need to be okay with whatever con like if you're okay going and eating whatever you want at a restaurant, you need to also be okay with what consequences may show up, even if it's just a fluctuation up on the scale. So that's that's more of like an internal thought process around it and how to frame it. Uh, because I it drives me nuts as a coach, it drives me nuts as a coach when people go and do that sort of thing and then get mad when, oh, the scale's up today. It's like, well, yes, you had four mimosas and ate whatever you wanted at brunch yesterday. I would expect the scale to be up. That's just how it works. It doesn't mean that you've ruined anything, but what happens is then that leads to a downward spiral and you know, one meal becomes a week of not being on track, and that's where the real problem arises. And so it's being intentional about the choice and what goal you're optimizing for. And then something I use with my clients in general, um, and it applies to tracking macros, but I think it applies especially well to either situations where people aren't tracking anymore, or situations like a restaurant. If you build your meal around proteins and plants, so it's basically like think of 50% of the plate being plants, about 25 to 33% of the plate being proteins, and you got a little space left over for something fun, something filling, something, you know, that is maybe more exciting and interesting. If you build a meal around that, it doesn't matter where you're at or what you're doing, that's gonna be more on track than not. And most restaurants will have options and things available to create that sort of reality. It's still probably gonna be higher calories than you want for the day. But that's where I try to strike balance with people is like, you know, make the decision, be intentional about how you want to approach it. If the goal is to be relatively on track, but still go to a restaurant, having a framework to work within where it's like, all right, I'm gonna have mostly plants and proteins. Maybe I'm also getting this, that, or the other. You know, maybe it's a beverage, maybe it's a little treat at the end of the meal that's shared with the table. You know, whatever it is to find balance along the way is how I tend to approach it. Because again, I would be hypocritical if I said you need to be perfectly on track at your restaurant meals. But at the same time, I've had times I can think of I was getting ready for like a photo shoot back in the day, and I was visiting Boston uh and I had friends there, and we were going out to dinner, and I ordered the weirdest, most out there stuff. Oh, actually, funny enough, speaking of random food things, duck heart was on the menu at a place. So one, had to try it. And two, I was like, wait, this is an appetizer that's pure protein. I do think appetizers are hidden gems when it comes to navigating restaurant menus. Obviously, there's like the mozzarella sticks, but there are often appetizers or shared plates that can be predominantly protein or predominantly plants, which can help kind of create balance along the way. So lots of stuff there. But like you said, I've heard the question a lot and I have lots of thoughts about it. So that's that's how I like to approach those things for the sake of balance. Now, if someone's getting ready for a physique show, that changes the calculus of all of all that. But you know, most normal people can handle a little flexibility here and there. And it's it's about being intentional about how you approach those things, situationally specific goals.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

I couldn't agree more about like the most important first step is deciding what outcomes am I comfortable with putting two feet in whatever door you decide to walk through and then just owning it. Because I know something we both see all the time is people with a foot in both doors. It's like I I really want to still lose a bunch of weight by the end of the week, but also I really want to enjoy myself. And then you don't get all the benefits of either. You splurge a bit, you have your flexibility, but you feel guilty and almost distracted the whole time because you feel off track and like you shouldn't be. And then you also, because you splurged a bit, maybe you know, you cut your deficit in half for the week. So I'm like, I'd rather have you go with one or the other. If you're gonna enjoy yourself, commit to it, embrace the fact that it might slow things down. Like you said, it's not gonna ruin everything, but it'll probably slow things down, at least on a micro level. But then like you gave yourself that green light, so you're gonna enjoy it, or say, no, no, no, I'm keeping two feet in the fat loss store so I can get through this dieting phase sooner and then get back to a place where I increase calories again back to maintenance, and then things like this are easier to navigate. But yeah, yeah, more flexibility. Exactly. We got to start by, okay, like um actually, you know, Marcy Nevin, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

Uh a little bit, but like I'm familiar with, but don't know super well.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

But yeah. Uh so she always talks about something called the the pillow test, which is just okay, what decisions am I gonna be okay with? And my head hits the pillow. Like, cause you can think ahead, of course, to tomorrow, week from now, month from now, but I think the pillow test of just okay, when I walk out of this restaurant, when I get to bed, what am I gonna feel okay with? Is just something so um it's like tangible. It's like, okay, an hour from now, how do I do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

It's smaller scale accountability.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Yeah. Um, so I I like that a lot. And that from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

It ties into well, right. And like it ties into in my mind, shoulds don't exist in fitness. Like if you have a goal, it's because you want to do the thing. There are no shoulds with that. It's what you want to do. And like that maybe that sounds uh like harsh, and I don't mean it that way. It's just like if you want to lose fat, it's not like, oh, I should eat the salad, but I want to eat the thing. It's like, no, you want to eat the salad. And maybe against the fun thing out to lunch with friends, that loses on this particular day. But it's not what you should do versus what you want to do. It's what you want to do versus what you want to do. They're both things you want. And I think when people think in the mindset of, I, you know, shoulds and supposed to's when it comes to fitness, that's when the the guilt, the shame, the oh, I was supposed to do this, but I chose to do that, I'm a bad person. That's when that starts to really get rampant and the internal talk goes out the window in terms of just like it's awful. And that doesn't help anyone. So getting rid of should so that we can focus on like, all right, well, I have my goals. I want to achieve the goals. I also want to have fun at this restaurant. How do I want to approach it this particular time in this particular circumstance? And, you know, on a birthday, that might mean eating more cake than you normally would. And that's fine. It's because it's what you wanted to do. And because it's what you wanted to do, it's your body there, your goals. You can do whatever you want anytime you want. So, like, yeah, there's no should there. Oh, should you have had the cake? I don't know. That's it's your call. I don't, I don't really care either way. I'm just here to help. And so it's uh yeah, I you what you were saying was making me think of that because I think shoulds and supposed to's get way too mixed up in fitness, and it it makes people worse off. Because in reality, if it's a goal you want to do, it's a thing you want to do. And it that's not a should. That's a no, you you want to do that or you don't. And I think a lot of people often chase goals they feel like they're supposed to rather than goals that they want to, and that creates a whole different internal uh, you know, dialogue and battle that could probably be its own separate podcast. But it is, it's just such an interesting thought. If we take should out of it, it's suddenly like, oh, well, I want the salad because of my goals. I want the cookie because of cookie. Well, actually, you know, I I I'm gonna choose the salad this time and I'm gonna feel really good about my decision. I'm not gonna feel like, oh, I missed out. There's no more FOMO when it's, you know, it's what I want versus what I want, not what I should do, what I'm supposed to do, and what I actually want, which is usually not the salad.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Yeah, I like that reframe a lot. And honestly, it it, I mean, I'm biased because it does sound very similar to something I always tell my clients, which is okay, you know, we have we have this door over here, the flexibility, maybe call it a maintenance door. We have this fat loss door over here. There's good things. There are good things behind both doors. So, like you said, it's like it's a you want both, and that's fine. You just get to think what am I okay with uh, you know, tonight when my head hits the pillow, what I'm you know, what do I want in a more macro level, etc.? Um, a little bit of a sidebar for a second, you mentioning cake for your birthday made me think of uh the cake that I had this past year that I'm curious if you've tried super common in Argentina, Chaco Torta.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:52

I don't know if I have. I feel like I want to picture it, but I don't even know if what I'm picturing is accurate. So you'll have to send me a picture of whatever it is, because I don't think I've had it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

So I love it, and one of the reasons I love it is again, I'm like average in the kitchen and it is so simple. It is just like um uh a specific kind of it's basically a chocolate cookie called Chocolina. They're very adamant that you have to use that specific type. It's like a cheap cookie from the store, but Chocolina. Right, but of course, yeah. Yes, it's layered with that. Dulce de leche, of course, in Argentina. Um, cream cheese. And I can't remember if you might end up adding a little bit of milk as well, but it basically ends up being this layered thing that is so simple you just throw it in the fridge for a while. It is absolutely fantastic. Again, for somebody like me who likes simple, but the flavor is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

And then at some restaurant Well, it's almost like banafi pie, which is uh like a British thing, but a little more technically difficult. But a similar thing where it has to be it's uh digestive biscuits for the crust on that, and it's like very, very similar in that it's like uh not like the classiest thing, but delicious, which is uh often the case where it's The least classy things are sometimes the most delicious things. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

And I found that the homemade versions typically have the Chocolina cookies intact. Like they're do they just like they put there just stacked like that. Whereas at a restaurant, the that portion almost tastes to me a bit more like a chocolate cake. And I would imagine, I'm completely guessing, because this is not my wheelhouse. Maybe they just ground it up a little bit more so it's like a smoother thing rather than like standalone cookies. But um I would highly, I mean, I'm sure uh uh Dolce de Leche is easy enough to get where you are in Florida. Right, right. I have clients who have a hard time, depending on where they are, um, clients who have a hard time finding that. And obviously it's it's not a huge part of like North American food culture, generally speaking. Yeah, whereas here it's criminal, not everywhere. Yeah, Sideleche. On does there even like you go to McDonald's here and like where we would have a McFlurry or an ice cream cone or uh let's say a McFlurry with um like Oreos or MMs, like never, never, never here. They're doing the Dulce de Lege version of which I would like more.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

I'm a sucker for caramel-y things. I do think so. Like in the States, the way to do it would probably be I've never uh practiced it a ton, but if you get sweetened condensed milk and you take the wrapper off of it and you boil it for a certain amount of time, you basically turn it into Dulce de Leige, which uh I I don't know the times and and things like that, but it it is a thing that can be done. So if it can't be found, it's maybe easier to just kind of create. But that goes back to my Michael's thing where sometimes it is easier to just make the thing. Um, but not necessarily everyone's jam, which is fair. Because it's easier to buy a can than to take a can and transform it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

But yes, but it does reinforce again full circle moment inadvertently. It does reinforce your point about the upside of having the skill set, not just for like macro friendly things, but just to make your overall time in the kitchen and the things you're eating more enjoyable, where they are whether they are classically healthy or maybe a little bit more flexible. Um Right, right. Yeah. Ben, last thing before I let you go today, something I call the fast four. So four questions that have nothing to do with cooking, just whatever the first thing to come to mind is. Sure. First one, what is a hobby that you've always wanted to pick up, but you haven't yet?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

Um uh I would say pick back up. Well, I'll say music generally, more specifically guitar, because I always grew up playing bass, and for those who don't know, bass is two-thirds identical to a guitar. It's got four strings instead of six. They're the same four strings on both, but then guitar has two extra. I've never been good at guitar. I can pretend like I know what I'm doing because I know music and I know bass. Um, but actually learning guitar is is the answer there. Uh acoustic or electric? Um, I would say acoustic because that just is operationally easier. Like I could go to a guitar center and grab an acoustic guitar and start playing around. Um, also, if I'm just sitting and playing on my own, that's gonna open up more possibilities to just do like folksy acoustic singer-songwriter type stuff. Um, and then you can still play things that are familiar in the in the rock sense, they just won't be distorted. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

And I'm sure your neighbors would be a little bit happier with acoustic for sure. For sure. Um, I'm saying that as somebody who's had a lot of bad neighbors. Um Right, right. What would you be doing if you were not a coach? And I'm also gonna add nothing uh cooking adjacent either. So not helping people with anything nutrition or cooking related, any other career.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Uh so it's hard to know how it would shape up, but the thing I have always loved, and it's why I gravitate towards what I do now, but I like helping people. And, you know, whether that means business school and being a consultant somewhere, right? I have no idea. Um, but something about helping people has always been appealing. So maybe it's being a teacher, maybe it's being some sort of consultant in the business world. Um, all of that has always been something that I've enjoyed. But I will say I did, so I was a history major before I switched to it, it's exercise and wellness. I was a history major and I was planning on going to law school. And if I did law school, I probably would have gone into entertainment law because that's like the the realm my dad operates in. I grew up in the LA area. So, like in a practical sense, that might have been it, but I would have really struggled with law school. I struggled with a history major. I would have to like study standing up so I didn't fall asleep. It was, you know, the the major switch was good. And then once I did that, I was like, what am I doing thinking I'm gonna go to law school? That's a bad idea for just how I like learning. Um but so in a practical sense, I was on that track for a while. But I think doing something to help people would probably be what it looked like. And that could show up in in lots of different ways, but probably nothing related to math, because that was never my strong suit. And that's we're doing odd multiples of 45. That I can do real quick with with barbells and plates. But yeah, outside of that, my math is limited.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

Uh so on that note, I have uh on the topic of uh plate math that all of us meet heads and know multiples of 45 and what uh what happens if you add quarters and dimes and yada yada yada. Right. I in an effort to uh immerse myself and I guess assimilate more into Argentine culture or just I guess non-US, I've changed my workout logs to kilos finally. I didn't do it when I lived in England, I didn't do it when I lived in the year. And I gotta be honest, it is so depressing is a very strong word, but you know, say uh, you know, I I hit a heavy press or a hack squat and I'm used to like three plates and like see, I don't know, 315 or something, and looking at my log and seeing like 120 for six reps. I'm like, damn. Right. You're like, oh, it's humbling.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

It is a nice hack if someone gets in their head about the scale and they're completely unfamiliar with kilos versus pounds. It is a nice way to track weight without having all the internal dialogues and stories about weight. So throw that out there as an idea. We won't say what the conversion is because we don't want to ruin that for anyone, but it is, it makes it nice if you want to track the thing without getting in your head about the thing. But yeah, it is, it's an odd one. Um, I I worked at a gym in Boston back in the day that had a mixture of kilos and plates. And so it would be the like we would literally have to get out a calculator and calculate like, oh, that was a deadlift PR. Good job, guys. Like, you know, but it uh it was good for getting out of your head because it's not like, oh, this is right up on the limit of what I think I'm capable of in terms of like a heavy lift or something. Um but yeah, that's funny that it took you this long to finally embrace kilos. But you know, slowly but surely they're converting you.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

Yeah, no, they are. They are, even if my workout log now looks pretty unimpressive to anybody reading pounds. Right. Um if you could, oh, actually, sorry, I skipped ahead of question. Normally, this is where I'd ask if you could have one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be? But I feel like for you, that I'm assuming it's a very difficult question. So I was thinking about narrowing it down to if you could only have one meal from South America, from a South American country specifically. I felt like it'd be better to give you a parameter rather than leave you the entire world to choose.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

No, that that helps a ton. Cause like, and that's the thing, is like that just helps narrow the options. And so instead of like 31 flavors at a basket and robins, I'm at a place with a reasonable selection. Um, so I think where my mind goes, and we talked about this the other day, Peruvian, as far as a cuisine is concerned, is way up there. And if we're talking dish, that makes it more tricky. But if we're saying meal, which is what the question was, technically, it means I can have an appetizer, I can have a mane, and I can maybe have some sort of treat or dessert. Um, I so the big thing that comes to mind, I love Peruvian ceviche, and they do ceviche a little different in Peru than some other countries. And so I would 100% have that be the starter. And if I had to pick a dish, it would probably be that. I love bright, I love acidic, and uh I, you know, I I understand that some people are a little turned off by raw fish, but I'm a fan. Um, so that would be the the appetizer where I struggle with the main if it's a Peruvian meal, which is what it is, it's either it's either gonna be something like a lomo salfalo, but also pollo la brasa is is I I think very underrated for something so simple as long as it comes with like tasty sauce. But I'm probably gonna lean towards the lomo for that just because it is uh so uniquely Peruvian. And then I don't know, there are all sorts of like well, also if we're getting into it, like I part of the appetizer round is gonna have to be Papalo Wancaina as well, um, which is just like potatoes with a cheesy sauce, and it's delicious. My my grandma, I went to a like Peruvian restaurant with my grandma around Thanksgiving a couple of years ago, and she was blown away by it. She loved the wangaina sauce. So we we have like another family get together like months later, and I made a like a whole bunch of it to put on potatoes because I knew she would enjoy that. Uh so that'd be on there as well. And like this list will only keep growing if I keep talking longer. So we'll we'll say uh a glass of chichimbolada and then you know, some sort of postre. It wouldn't need to be anything crazy. Like, I don't know, desserts to me, unless they're like super fancy, seven course dessert tasting menus in a speakeasy uh underground in New York, it's kind of like anything sweet is gonna be delicious. And I I trust South America when it comes to sweet treats. So it's just like, yeah, anything that that is the chef's choice would would be fine by me, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:42

That answer was as detailed as I expected it to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:45

And again, I think it was when it's like me going down this path and be like, oh no, but I can't, I I can't leave that child uh left alone. Like, yeah, so if we were going the whole world, that would have been challenging. There's a series called like last meals that I see on social media, and it's like basically like a podcast almost like hot ones, but over what that person's last meal would be. And genuinely I've thought about it multiple times. Like, I have no idea what I would pick, it would be so hard to do. And I feel like that chocolate sesame dumpling would have to be one of the courses. But like it's tricky to pick favorites in that sense, but you know, you know, it it hopefully was an interesting answer, if nothing else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

Well, what do you think the most popular answer is to this question to one food or meal for the rest of your life? What do you think most guests say? There's a there's a front runner by a mile.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:29

Interesting. I knee-jerk reaction. I want to say something like pizza, but I don't know. Okay, I was like, I don't know if that's gonna be because I got you know, fitness professionals, uh it could go different directions potentially, but uh yeah, okay. My knee my knee jerk was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

See, I know they're with most fit pros that come on. I I will ask them and then I'll usually say it doesn't have to be macro friendly. Like like it can be pizza, and let's assume you're gonna stay healthy and fit and blah, blah, blah. Like purely based on enjoyment to which most people end up saying pizza. So I'm glad we got a different answer from you. Yeah. And the last question for today if you could teleport anywhere in the world right now, where would you go? Oh, dear.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:11

That's tricky. So it's interesting. I have a great connection with Central and South American culture. I speak Spanish, but I've actually never been to South America. So honestly, first thing that comes to mind, and this is huge recency bias because I feel like we could talk for two more hours, probably just there, and like let's go grab lunch and hang out. Um so yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind. I also love uh Japanese cuisine and culture. So teleporting there would be nifty. My girlfriend also lived in Japan. Uh, like her dad was there for work for a stint when she was young. So like going to Japan is a matter of when, not a matter of if, uh, just hasn't uh fallen into place just yet. So those are the top two. But currently, right this second, I was like, okay, let's just go grab food and and hang out. And uh Japan would be great, but I don't speak Japanese. I I could uh I could plug into Argentina pretty decently, though my Spanish is rusty, but like I would be able to get by, I think. Um so yeah, like that that's that's leading the charge right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:06

Yeah, that's a I'm biased, but that's a great answer. I'd be curious what you think of the Argentine accent, like the Rio Platense accent, for example, the Pocho instead of Pollo or the Show instead of yo. It is different on the air.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:20

Throws me for a loop. So I learned Spanish in a unique way. I learned Spanish in New Jersey, so that's uh like I I wasn't in some like uh I wasn't in a specific culture or accent uh or dialect, but it meant that I I got a taste of a lot of different things because there's a lot of Caribbean islanders, plenty of Central and South American uh speakers in New Jersey, because it's like this mixing pot not far away from New York and all of that sort of jazz. So I got a taste of things, but for every single time that would throw me for a loop. I'd be like, oh, oh yes. Like she asks if it was raining, but I didn't understand how she would do it. I was like, um, so so that always threw me for a loop. But it is funny, part of it is because I am white, um, but part of it is I spoke pretty properly when I was in my Spanish prime. Oftentimes people would guess that I I or my family was from Argentina. So I feel like this kinship to Argentina, because anytime someone was like, Oh, where are you from? I'd be like, guess. Um, because you know, being from Southern California and being the only Spanish speaker in my family is kind of a a nice curveball to hit him with. And I liked being flattered about my Spanish at the time. Um, and Argentina was probably the most common guess in the handful of times, small sample size, but still, I'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

I had a, well, bear with me, a similar-ish experience where when I was in Australia, I was at, they called it like a Latin restaurant, and there was a variety, and then you had some Brazilian food, you had which is a big deal in most parts of Australia. Um they had a little bit of Argentine stuff as well. And to uh familiarize my my buddy that I was with a bit more with classic Argentine things, I ordered a Fournet, which as I'm sure you know, that's like the drink here, most of the Fournet in the entire world. I mean, some in Italy as well, but most of it is consumed here or Uruguay as well. And so when I ordered the Fournette in Spanish, the the guy lights up and was like, Are you from Argentina? But all it took was one additional sentence in Spanish for him to go, oh no fucking nope. Yeah, yeah. That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

Yeah, he can order the Fournet, but that's the extent of a Spanish. Uh well, that's that's me with Portuguese. All I can say in Portuguese is I don't speak Portuguese well, but I say that fantastically. And so people are like, Are you sure? I'm like, no, I am very sure. But luckily, Spanish and Portuguese are similar enough. If someone talks at me in Portuguese, I can usually understand what's going on. Um, or at least I used to be able to. I haven't been spoken that in Portuguese for quite some time. But in a general sense, um, it's really funny because I can I could also ask if someone needs help. That one I learned as well. So I could be like, I don't speak Portuguese very well. And do you need help? Um that's all I got in Portuguese. But it sounds great when I do it, or at least in a Brazilian accent, not so much a Portugal accent, but that's you know, that was my next question, whether it was uh Brazilian or Portuguese. Yeah, well, I only learned it sort of similar to when I was learning Spanish. I I learned it in New Jersey and they were just Brazilians. So it was just like, oh yeah, okay, I can ask if you need help and I can say that I don't speak very well. Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

I can also have it nailed. I I could tell you that you're pretty and I could say goodnight to you. I could add a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:23

Those those are the the the important phrases, right? I was just trying to help people and tell them I couldn't speak. You're you're learning the important stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:30

Yeah, yeah. Um all right. Well, like you said, I feel like we could chat for another two and a half hours, but I will let you go here. Um, this was a super fun chat. Honestly, one of the most fun conversations I have ever had about food and cooking type stuff. And I I I now feel motivated to add more than just salt and pepper to whatever I have for a meal after this. So um absolutely. I look forward to hearing how it goes, Matt. Yeah, thank you again. And and like I said, I'll include all the links to uh the app, social media. Anything else that you want to direct people to or no, those are the main things.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

The coach that cooks on Instagram, which you already said at the beginning, and then flavorcoach.ai. Those are those are the big things. I'm also like I'm pretty chatty, pretty responsive. So like anyone can shoot me a DM and uh I I respond to my DMs. I think it's weird when people don't respond to them themselves. Um so like yeah, it's it's just me. Um so so yeah, like reach out anytime. I I do what I do because I like helping people, which we sort of touched on in one of those uh quick hitting questions. And it's just like, yeah, my like the chance to help someone, even if I don't know you, like I I love that. I I relish the opportunity. So anyone can reach out, happy to help them with food, with fitness, uh, and with whatever, even if it's uh learning how to say I don't speak Portuguese very well. I can help with that, but not much outside of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:42

No falo portuguese. No, no, no, no. Muy too lindo, bueno. Um all right, man. You're off the hook for my terrible Brazilian Portuguese. Again, I appreciate you a lot. And uh you have an awful chat soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:57

Yeah, dude, this has been great. This has been great. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:00

I'll see you, brother.